Re: [CinCVS] Effects order.
Dan Streetman wrote: I've had the same problem, but my opinion is all the transitions should be also added as effects. To me, it makes more sense to have effects than transitions. They do the same thing, Hi Dan, ...the problem is: from a technical viewpoint, they don't do the same thing, because they are pulling video data out of two sources wheras effects pull out of one source (the predecessor in the effects chain). While I agree with you that it would be much more intuitive to have transitions behave like effects this would imply a generalisation of the effects infrastructure and there are good chances this would mean touching and adapting every existing effect as well. Cheers, Hermann signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [CinCVS] Effects order.
On Thu, 2006-08-03 at 20:09 +0200, Herman Robak wrote: You may get almost the desired result by crossfading the effects, using keyframes, if the transition is a crossfade. Otherwise, you have to use two tracks. Wouldn't it be helpful then to enable transitions to blend between two tracks, not just two edits? Just a thought... Jonas ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Effects order.
I believe that this approach was used in the past by Adobe Premiere. I think they were known as A and B tracks, reminicent of the the old A and B rolls when editing was done on film. To my knowledge all commercial editors have since moved away from this approach.On 8/4/06, Jonas Wulff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2006-08-03 at 20:09 +0200, Herman Robak wrote: You may get almost the desired result by crossfading the effects, using keyframes, if the transition is a crossfade.Otherwise, you have to use two tracks. Wouldn't it be helpful then to enable transitions to blend between twotracks, not just two edits?Just a thought... Jonas___Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.nohttps://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Mark StavarSwan Dancer ProductionsEmail:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Mobile: 0410 638 671 http://www.the-writers-retreat.com/
Re: [CinCVS] Effects order.
But in recent Premiere versions you can still use transitions between two different tracks (but you are not limited to A and B tracks, of course, and you can blend between edits aswell...) Original-Nachricht Datum: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 23:06:00 +1000 Von: mark stavar [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: cinelerra@skolelinux.no Betreff: Re: [CinCVS] Effects order. I believe that this approach was used in the past by Adobe Premiere. I think they were known as A and B tracks, reminicent of the the old A and B rolls when editing was done on film. To my knowledge all commercial editors have since moved away from this approach. On 8/4/06, Jonas Wulff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2006-08-03 at 20:09 +0200, Herman Robak wrote: You may get almost the desired result by crossfading the effects, using keyframes, if the transition is a crossfade. Otherwise, you have to use two tracks. Wouldn't it be helpful then to enable transitions to blend between two tracks, not just two edits? Just a thought... Jonas ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Mark Stavar Swan Dancer Productions Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 0410 638 671 http://www.the-writers-retreat.com/ -- Echte DSL-Flatrate dauerhaft für 0,- Euro*. Nur noch kurze Zeit! Feel free mit GMX DSL: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Effects order.
Marcin Kostur wrote: Suppose i have two video tracks which i would like to join with a transition. Additionally i need to corret colors (e.g. histogram) on those tracks, ... If i apply effect to each track, then the transition will use uncorrected part in overlapping moment (is it a bug?). ... The way i did it was correct a track and render but it introduced unecessary DV-reencoding. Andraž Tori wrote: you probably want to say that two edits overlap. just render them first with all the corrections you want and then use the new media files. Hello Andraž, Hello Marcin, quite often, I got struck by this behaviour. I consider it -- not quite a bug, but rather a shortcomming of the design, i.e. the way transitions are implemented and controlled in cinelerra. Basicalliy, it forces me to render the parts withl plugins to a lossles format before setting up the transitions. (Rendering to dv or mjpeg of course is not an option because of the quality loss introduced by re-encoding). This approach works, but really can't be called a solution: - it is destructive, wheras all editing should be non-destructive - it forces me into using a huge amount of disk space (which can get a nightmare in large projects) - it's against the natural workflow: normally, we first select the takes and try to cut, and later on, if all cuts are OK and the whole flow of the movie is working, we do the fine tuning. With this problem we either can't use transitions while cutting (if we need the effects, e.g. slow motion), or we can't use a preliminary version of the effects later on to be enhanced. So I think, we should open a enhancement ticket on this. What's your oppinion? Cheers, Hermann signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [CinCVS] Effects order.
On Thu, 2006-08-03 at 18:11 +0200, Hermann Vosseler wrote: Marcin Kostur wrote: Suppose i have two video tracks which i would like to join with a transition. Additionally i need to corret colors (e.g. histogram) on those tracks, ... If i apply effect to each track, then the transition will use uncorrected part in overlapping moment (is it a bug?). ... The way i did it was correct a track and render but it introduced unecessary DV-reencoding. Andraž Tori wrote: you probably want to say that two edits overlap. just render them first with all the corrections you want and then use the new media files. Hello Andraž, Hello Marcin, quite often, I got struck by this behaviour. I consider it -- not quite a bug, but rather a shortcomming of the design, i.e. the way transitions are implemented and controlled in cinelerra. Basicalliy, it forces me to render the parts withl plugins to a lossles format before setting up the transitions. (Rendering to dv or mjpeg of course is not an option because of the quality loss introduced by re-encoding). This approach works, but really can't be called a solution: - it is destructive, wheras all editing should be non-destructive - it forces me into using a huge amount of disk space (which can get a nightmare in large projects) - it's against the natural workflow: normally, we first select the takes and try to cut, and later on, if all cuts are OK and the whole flow of the movie is working, we do the fine tuning. With this problem we either can't use transitions while cutting (if we need the effects, e.g. slow motion), or we can't use a preliminary version of the effects later on to be enhanced. So I think, we should open a enhancement ticket on this. What's your oppinion? That this is quite some work to be implemented, especially in the GUI which needs to be changed to allow for a plugin to be attached to a specific edit. And also changes in XML format... bye andraz ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Effects order.
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 18:11:52 +0200, Hermann Vosseler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marcin Kostur wrote: Suppose i have two video tracks which i would like to join with a transition. Additionally i need to corret colors (e.g. histogram) on those tracks, ... If i apply effect to each track, then the transition will use uncorrected part in overlapping moment (is it a bug?). ... The way i did it was correct a track and render but it introduced unecessary DV-reencoding. Andraž Tori wrote: you probably want to say that two edits overlap. just render them first with all the corrections you want and then use the new media files. Hello Andraž, Hello Marcin, quite often, I got struck by this behaviour. I consider it -- not quite a bug, but rather a shortcomming of the design, i.e. the way transitions are implemented and controlled in cinelerra. It is a shortcoming in the design, and it has been discussed before. The problem is actually not the effect order, but the fact that effects are applied to the timeline only. The transition effects peeks into parts of the source video that is beyond the edit, and not on the time- line. Whether you apply the effects before or after the transition, it will not fix this problem. Say clip A has a brightness correction and clip B has a colour correction, applied as effects, and a crossfade between them: (CF) A BBB brightness correctioncolour correction At the clip point, A starts fading away, but suddenly loses the brightness correction. B's colour correction slams in at 100% before B is visible, and is applied to the mix of A and B. What Marcin and Hermann want, is the brightness correction to be applied _only_ to A _throughout_ the crossfade, and the colour correction to be applied _only_ to B, also during the crossfade. Some of us suggested that we should implement this, with extra markings on the timeline to indicate when effects would bleed into transitions. However, it was deemed too complex, and dropped. You may get almost the desired result by crossfading the effects, using keyframes, if the transition is a crossfade. Otherwise, you have to use two tracks. -- Herman Robak ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Effects order.
Dear Andraz, In transision 2 tracks overlap - and i need to correct them before transiting which is in C2 gui impossible. Marcin ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Effects order.
you probably want to say that two edits overlap. just render them first with all the corrections you want and then use the new media files. bye andraz On Tue, 2006-08-01 at 10:34 +0200, Marcin Kostur wrote: Dear Andraz, In transision 2 tracks overlap - and i need to correct them before transiting which is in C2 gui impossible. Marcin ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Effects order.
Hi Andraz Of cource, i meant edit. That is exactly what i did. But it is annoying if you have more than one edit (e.g 100). And requires reencoding. On the other hand this also means that transistions which have overlap are not compatible with effects which is a major cinelerra concept-bug. It should be somehow possible to apply the effect to edit before doing transition. the best Marcin Kostur ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
[CinCVS] Effects order.
Dear Users, There is the next problem i have with snv 2.0: Suppose i have two video tracks which i would like to join with a transition. Additionally i need to corret colors (e.g. histogram) on those tracks, but the color correction depends on the shot - (e.g one was couldy one sunny). What should i do? If i apply histogram to each track, then the transition will use uncorrected part in overlapping moment (is it a bug?). If I apply histogram to the whole video then the control over histogram parameters becomes very difficult (invisible keyframe settings). Stacking tracks is also very cumbersome (suppose i have 20 of them ;-) The way i did it was correct a track and render but it introduced unecessary DV-reencoding. Do you have any tips? The best Marcin ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
