Re: [CinCVS] Wikis?
On Sat, Jan 13, 2007 at 01:26:57PM -0500, Kevin Brosius wrote: On 2007-01-13 11:56, Nicolas Maufrais wrote: Mmmm... You got it wrong here. Here's the situation: - the initial wiki contents was put in the manual. I spent tens of hours to do this. - then, I worked on the manual, so much work was necessary - during that time, some people continued to edit the twiki - now, the new wiki is online, and the twiki contents which was added in from Nov 8 2006 to today isn't in the manual. You can have a look at the Twiki changes here: http://ftconsult.taxnetusa.com/twiki/bin/view/Cinelerra/WebChanges No, I did not get it wrong. Please review the content I mention before making such claims. I understand if you left some content out of the new manual, but the content at the link I posted has been in the Twiki much longer than Nov 6, 2006. That page has not been changed since Aug 2006. I looked at the Suse page on the Twiki. I did not put in in the manual, because the way it is formulated is too wiki oriented. In the first paragraph, someone explains it did not work for him. In the second paragraph, it seems a too personnal experience, not too generic in my opinion. As regards to the third paragraph, it's about Suse 9.0 and 9.2 which seem rather old. That information quality was not up to the standard required to be put in a manual. Moreover, I didn't know enough then (and will never know more) about Suse to be able to revise it before puting it into the manual. I would like it made clear that some content is not in the new manual. I'm somewhat offended that you are suggesting all the content is, and are asking people to add content which was already in the older wiki. Several of us put a good amount of time into information in the older wiki. Please remember those contributions also. I understand you did a lot of work on the new format, and you have a vested interest in supporting it. I do remember those contributions. Around 5-10% of the wiki is not in the manual. Now, you have to understand several things: - the documentation was a total mess some months ago, and the information was squattered between several documents. Moreover, the Twiki wasn't updated with the latest version of Secrets of Cinelerra - some contents in the twiki isn't appropriate for being put in a manual, - I ask the help of translators to take the translations remaining in the wiki and translate the manual. Two people replied, for Italian and Brazilian. - you're not paying for that manual. You have to understand that not everything is perfect. But *HELL*, I posted several messages on this mailing-list about the documentation. I asked people for their opinion, their ideas. I asked for help on the IRC to merge the twiki and the new version of Secrets into 1 manual, and in texinfo format. Did anyone helped me to do that dirty job? NO. I don't thing you know how much time that asked me. You should have a look at the Changelog to get a better view. Now, rather than ranting, as I said, you're welcome to participate in working on the manual. If you know of any information about how to install Cinelerra on a recent version of Suse, you're welcome to do so. If you see any information still in the TWiki which isn't in the manual, please put it in the new wiki. I remind you that for the moment, nobody edited the wiki apart from me. I made the wiki to allow everyone to improve the manual, in an easy way. Instead of criticizing what have be done, improve it; be more constructive. Nicolas Maufrais. -- ~~ ~ BOYCOTT SUSE NOVELL (C)(TM)(R) MICRO$OFT ~ ~~ ~I DO LIKE AND SUPPORT GPL VERSION 3 ~ ~~ ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Wikis?
On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 12:56 +0100, Nicolas Maufrais wrote: I really want the users to do not edit anymore the Twiki. Alex will add a note on the Twiki, and he'll probably de-activate editing too. I'd like the Italiano TWiki to stay editable for translation. I'm translating the Manual to Italian, but that's a huge task, perhaps bigger than me. I thought to put the translation in the Italiano TWiki too, topic after topic, so if I'm too slow or if I die of strains during the process, at least you are left with something. Raffaella ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Wikis?
On Sat, Jan 13, 2007 at 04:30:42PM +0100, Raffaella Traniello wrote: On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 12:56 +0100, Nicolas Maufrais wrote: I really want the users to do not edit anymore the Twiki. Alex will add a note on the Twiki, and he'll probably de-activate editing too. I'd like the Italiano TWiki to stay editable for translation. I'm translating the Manual to Italian, but that's a huge task, perhaps bigger than me. I thought to put the translation in the Italiano TWiki too, topic after topic, so if I'm too slow or if I die of strains during the process, at least you are left with something. Raffaella, That's definitely not the thing to do!!! :-/ The twiki structure is really different from the manual's one. The Twiki structure wasn't appropriate to do a manual. So, I did took Secrets of Cinelerra, added the Twiki contents in there, and then started adding things. You're not translating the good thing! The good way to translate the manual is explained in the TRANSLATIONS file in the doc directory of the SVN release, or the git repository containing the latest manuals versions. Nicolas. -- ~~ ~ BOYCOTT SUSE NOVELL (C)(TM)(R) MICRO$OFT ~ ~~ ~I DO LIKE AND SUPPORT GPL VERSION 3 ~ ~~ ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Wikis?
On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 16:51 +0100, Nicolas Maufrais wrote: You're not translating the good thing! Don't worry. I'm. The TWiki is for me just a sort of backup. You can relax, now. ;-) Raffaella ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Wikis?
On Sat, Jan 13, 2007 at 05:06:31PM +0100, Raffaella Traniello wrote: On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 16:51 +0100, Nicolas Maufrais wrote: You're not translating the good thing! Don't worry. I'm. The TWiki is for me just a sort of backup. You can relax, now. ;-) Ahh... OK! lol... =) -- ~~ ~ BOYCOTT SUSE NOVELL (C)(TM)(R) MICRO$OFT ~ ~~ ~I DO LIKE AND SUPPORT GPL VERSION 3 ~ ~~ ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Wikis?
On 2007-01-13 11:56, Nicolas Maufrais wrote: Hello Kevin, Anyway, please don't suggest that the new manual wiki completely replaces the old one, especially if content is left out. Mmmm... You got it wrong here. Here's the situation: - the initial wiki contents was put in the manual. I spent tens of hours to do this. - then, I worked on the manual, so much work was necessary - during that time, some people continued to edit the twiki - now, the new wiki is online, and the twiki contents which was added in from Nov 8 2006 to today isn't in the manual. You can have a look at the Twiki changes here: http://ftconsult.taxnetusa.com/twiki/bin/view/Cinelerra/WebChanges No, I did not get it wrong. Please review the content I mention before making such claims. I understand if you left some content out of the new manual, but the content at the link I posted has been in the Twiki much longer than Nov 6, 2006. That page has not been changed since Aug 2006. - The twiki is available in more languages than the Cinelerra-CV manual. some people work on the brazilian and italian translation, but nobody replied to my Translators call I made on this mailing-list some weeks ago, for the other languages. It could be also useful to see that IRC log: http://cvs.cinelerra.org/irclog/index.php?file=2007-01-11.html Look at the conversation ga and I had. That conversation also explain why a new wiki was necessary. I sent an email to Alex some days ago. As I said, Alex said he'll add a message about the new wiki on the Twiki. Moreover, I think he'll deactivate the editing feature on the twiki, in order to avoid people adding new changes in the new twiki. Changes should now be made in the new wiki to avoid me having to merge the contents of the twiki in the manual again. Please understand that task is in now way easy. Look at the changelog of the new manual here, and you'll understand: http://pipapo.org/gitweb?p=cinelerra-nicolasm;a=log The twiki-manual contents merge was finished on Tue, 14 Nov 2006. So, to conclude: - there're still some new twiki contents to copy in the manual - I'm now not the only one to do this, people who added that contents in the twiki are welcome to put them in the new wiki. If nobody does, I'll do it, but please understand that I was, in the last days, working on other documentation-related tasks. - the twiki will stay online. Should we take out of it the translated stuff (which isn't the manual), put them in a online document, and totally remove the twiki? Would that reduce confusion (understand that word is important, when you take into account what the doc situation was some months ago) I created a page in the new wiki to discuss about those issues. The goal is to get all the ideas/questions/remarks at the *SAME* place. It's available here: http://cvs.cinelerra.org/docs/wiki/doku.php?id=documentation There's a link to that page on the main page of the new wiki. Please don't hesitate to use it. Kevin, do you want to merge the twiki contents added between Nov 8 2006 and today? That would help, for sure. Nobody edited the wiki apart from me (puting the new editions of the manual in it). Contributors are welcome, don't hesitate to edit it. I would like it made clear that some content is not in the new manual. I'm somewhat offended that you are suggesting all the content is, and are asking people to add content which was already in the older wiki. Several of us put a good amount of time into information in the older wiki. Please remember those contributions also. I understand you did a lot of work on the new format, and you have a vested interest in supporting it. -- Kevin ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
