RE: Hello (long response) [7:58843]
Brian, Adrian, is lacking in couth/class/tact that is for sure. Maybe he can;t find that in /root/home/manners. He is the depiction of dangerous when it comes to security. I really doubt that the level he plays on covers anything important, after all, any security person knows that indeed Checkpoint does suck. If you wake up in the morning and have to check the CERT advisories on your product I wouldn't use it. I forget the number of actual holes and snippets of code that would cause compromise, but the Black Hat community tore it up nicely. Honestly if his consulting company offered a Checkpoint solution I would think about how valuable my solution would be compared to the actual cost of my data and the time I would need to find another job after the SAN and all Raids were wiped, and I was facing legal incriminations from an invalidated contract stating I would "secure" my clients Enterprise. Maybe Adrian ought to start his own religion, no wait, someone already did that. Wasn't it WANG or something like that? Firing people because they don;t know software that is GNU/OpenSource is ridiculous. Maybe they used HP Openview instead of nmap. What expert in his right mind would have a FW do http load balancing?Sounds like mister groovy security guy needs to take a few steps back and see how stupid he sounds. Maybe we should give him a break. Sounds like he's pissed cause he started 30k less than the gang of four and realized he was duped into doing his bosses dirty work, that way if the former 4 sue the company the boss is not to blame. Come on Adrian, use a real mail address. I started the flame on this one, didn't I ? Thanks-- Kevin McCarty Computer Sciences Corporation Defense Sector "Obstacles are those annoying little bumps that occur when you take your eyes off your goals" Henry Ford "Brian T. Albert" Sent by: nobody 12/09/2002 03:37 PM Please respond to "Brian T. Albert" To: "adrian jones" , "elping" , "Louis Young" , , cc: "Chuck Church" Subject:RE: Hello (long response) Sounds like your boss should be doing the house cleaning and not you. Instead of firing 4 CCIEs, maybe because your God's gift to networking you should mentor, train, and teach instead of strut around with your nose up in the air. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of adrian jones Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 3:17 PM To: elping; Louis Young; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Chuck Church; Security Subject: Re: Hello (long response) Elping, Please do NOT make any statements regarding CheckPoint Firewall without knowing all the facts. I've been working with both Checkpoint and Pix firewalls. I even build a few "franken" pix firewalls so that I can learn as much as I can about Cisco Pix firewalls. The "franken" pix firewall actually help me landed my current job that pays 100k/year. Both CheckPoint and Pix firewalls have its strength and weaknesses. I agree that Cisco TAC is much superior than CheckPoint support. The "no text configuration" that you refer to in CheckPoint, you must be refered to running CheckPoint on Winblows platforms. NEVER RUN FIREWALL ON A GENERAL PURPOSE OPERATING SYSTEM. If you worry about cost, check out CheckPoint SecurePlatform. If you are "unix" literate, does the term "tcpdump" mean anything to you? That's how you troubleshoot my friend. Now if you are talking about cost, Cisco Pix will beat CheckPoint by a long shot in term of performance for your $. However, for a small/medium business, Checkpoint does come with a lot of features such as URL filtering (native), http load balancing, etc which Pix doesn't have (without 3rd party products). For enterprise environment, CheckPoint does come with ClusterXL (aka, load-sharing or Active/Active Firewall), which again, Pix doesn't support. Last but not least, CheckPoint does have a very nice Management piece called "provider-1" that Cisco Pix doesn't have. I do have to say that the price for CP products is totally "outrageous"; however, CP is a good product. In terms of hardware product, you can run CheckPoint on Nokia Platforms which is very stable and proven product. New version of Nokia firewalls do come with Flash instead of hard-drive so that the reliability is very high. Nokia is a big partner with CP. You can get CP support if you purchase Nokia firewalls from Nokia. Nokia TAC is just as good as Cisco TAC. I've completed my first week at my new job as a Security Engineer and I am amazed at the # of Cisco Certified folks at my company that are completely incompetent and downright clueless at what they can do. We are a consulting company and being in the consulting business, you are forced to know pretty much about everything. I have a couple of CCIEs in the office came to me and ask me how to restart sendmail and postfix (we are a linux shop) in linux. Another
Re: dispelling CCIE myths [7:44342]
I agree with Michael! Working with Intel boxes and bay hubs, for 5 years isn't quite the same as saying 5 years with SUN systems and ATM.No matter how you pass the test, you still pass the test. That in itself eliminates 95% of the "parrots". If you still don't know what you are doing, well,, then you qualify for IT Director or maybe CIO. So either way you're set. Have a great day! Kevin McCarty CCNA CCNP Computer Sciences Corporation Defense Sector Michael Williams To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: dispelling CCIE myths [7:44342] Sent by: nobody 05/17/2002 01:08 PM Please respond to Michael Williams Comments inline... nrf wrote: > What I said is that not that I hate all 'lab-rat' CCIE's > because everybody > has to start somewhere.Rather that I find the phenomena that > people view > the CCIE as an easy shortcut highly suspect. This phenomena > manifests > itself in guys obtaining their cert and then immediately > demanding a level > of salary and respect equal to another guy who has > significantly more > experience. A couple of comments here. First, given that the CCIE is quite difficult to obtain, I think that one who has achieved it deserves a certain minumum amount of respect whether they have 'real world' experience or not, and the fact that you (often) use the word 'labrat' to stereotype them denies them even that minimum level of respect. I'm not saying any CCIE (or anyone for that matter) should demand a level of respect which they are not due, but they also (regardless of how obtained) should never be denied that level of respect they've earned, especially from fellow networkers. Second, IMHO, you are making a grave mistake in assuming that experience always teaches one the lessons of networking any more than a certification. Experience can teach things certs dont. But certs can educate someone about things they've never done before they ever have to call upon that knowledge, and one type of knowledge is no less valuable than the other. There are many lessons that someone needs to learn in the school of hard knocks to really understand because the certification doesn't deal with such issues. However, a very wise man once told me, "Sometimes 5 years experience isn't 5 years experience. Many times it's the same 1 year of experience 5 times over". Think about that. I'll give an excellent example that shows this point (which I've given before, but I think it's needed to support my position). I worked with a gentleman at a previous job when I was 3 months into my first 6 months of real hands-on networking experience. This gentleman who had been dealing with Cisco and networking for 5+ years. I had just completed CCNP. He did a sniffer trace and was surprised when he saw multicast traffic and said outloud to all of his fellow "experienced" engineers "Where's this multicast traffic coming from?" I, the lowly inexperienced CCNP, asked "Aren't we using EIGRP" (which we were). He said "Yeah, but what's that got to do with this multicast traffic". I just turned and walked away. I was floored that a room full of engineers with a combined 50+ years of experience couldn't answer this, when ANYONE who has made it through the CCNP Routing exam would have answered the question in a heartbeat. Experience limits you to what you deal with. Certification encourages you (and requires you) to read and learn new things that you may never use just to be exposed to them. Experience is only as good as what it exposes you to. If you have 10 years experience with RIP networks and that's it, then that 10 years may just as well be 6 months. Because all that "experience" isn't going to mean squat in a shop running OSPF/BGF/EIGRP, etc... That's where having the knowledge that a certification gives you is advantageous. > Or it manifests itself in guys who don't want to > pay their dues > and do grunt-work and just want to be the senior network guy > without having > spent any time as the non-senior network guy. It is that kind > of behavior > that is what I'm targeting. Is my finding this phenomena > highly skeptical > really objectionable? I think most people here would find it > quite
Re: Way OT: RE: CCIE Salary [7:42111]
Hi list, I saw a website, (of course I can't remember right now) that polled 127 CCIE's about salary. The lowest was 98k the highest was 134k, tough to guage how accurate this information is. As far as regional pay, their are numerous websites that depict the comparative cost of living to where you want to move as compared to where you are. For instance a move from the Capitol region of New York to St Louis was 6500 dollar difference in salary, cheaper in St Louis. Taxes, property, insurance, salary, etc. All have a good day, Kevin McCarty CCNA CCNP Computer Sciences Corporation Defense Sector Larry LettermanTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Way OT: RE: CCIE Salary [7:42111] Sent by: nobody 04/22/2002 08:01 AM Please respond to Larry Letterman I agree...if one has a good deal of home equity here in the SV, you could pay cash for a house elsewhere and work cheaper and not have to worry about it... Larry Letterman Cisco Systems [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "adam lee" To: Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 9:30 PM Subject: RE: Way OT: RE: CCIE Salary [7:42111] > It's all relative. Some folks here have been cashing out and moving to Sac > cause it's cheaper. Can't say that I blame them. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > Larry Letterman > Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 5:42 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Way OT: RE: CCIE Salary [7:42111] > > > Housing is cheaper, so are the salaries... > > Larry Letterman > Cisco Systems > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - Original Message - > From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 8:01 PM > Subject: Re: Way OT: RE: CCIE Salary [7:42111] > > > > The new direction of this thread may bring new significance to "have > > a cow, man." > > > > > > >Hey, we pay about the same price for milk in the Raleigh area. Housing > is > > >much cheaper, though. :-) > > > > > >- Original Message - > > >From: "Manny Gonzalez" > > >To: "Brian Dennis" > > >Cc: "'Ccielab (E-mail)'" > > >Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 10:20 PM > > >Subject: Re: Way OT: RE: CCIE Salary > > > > > > > > >> Sorry Brian, we New Yorkers got you beat... A studio in a decent part > of > > >> Manhattan either sells for $1,000,000 or rents for at least > $2500/month. > > >> That is the lower end of the spectrum. Around the Battery Park City > area > > >> (one block from the former World Trade Center site) there are > [bargains] > > >> now they say for $3500 a month :-) > > >> > > >> In the outskirts, a DECENT house (not a real big or super nice one) > can > > >> easily go for $400,000 and 90% of the time there is a fight and ends > up > > >> going for a lot more. > > >> > > >> The 1, 2, 3, 4 million dollar homes are actually more abundant in the > > >> real estate listings than lesser priced homes. > > >> > > >> However, my usual gauge for cost of living ANYWHERE is the price of a > > >> standard gallon of milk. In my neighborhood, it is $3.25 a gallon... > > >> ___ > > >> Manny Gonzalez . CCIE# 9013 > > >> CORE Resources ... NY Presbyterian Hospital > > >> > > >> > > >> Brian Dennis wrote: > > >> > > > >> > Here in the San Jose area you can forget about living on $65k a > year. > > >> > There are mobile homes that cost over $200k out here. > > >> > > > >> > Brian Dennis, CCIE #2210 (R&S/ISP Dial) > > >> > > > >> > -Original Message- > > >> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf > Of > > >> > Scott Morris > > >> > Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 1:35 PM > > >> > To: 'Matheus, Joshua'; 'Dennis'; 'Ccielab (E-mail)' > > >> > Subject: RE: Way OT: RE: CCIE Salary > > >> > > > >> > Isn't $65k poverty level in New York? > > >> > > > >> > -Original Message- > > >> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf > Of > > >> > Matheus, Joshua > > >> > Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 3:50 PM > > >> > To: 'Dennis'; Ccielab (E-mail) > > >> > Subject: RE: Way OT: RE: CCIE Salary > > >> > > >
