RE: certification expire [7:72786]
as far as my understanding goes you need to finish a higher certification before the expiry of you CCNA to be automatically renewed. Or you will need to re-certify yourself for CCNA also in order to complete CCNP. Do you loose all these exams and redo the whole thing ? No U don't loose all the exams, you will need to re-certify at certifiction levels only, For eg: If u have completed 2 papers but ur ccna is not valid then u can re-certify CCNA and complete rest to get a valid CCNP. can I continue with the CCNP once I redo my CCNA exam ? YES. if you know any email of cisco that I can ask this question is also good www.cisco.com/go/ccnp search for FAQ's and u sud find them there. (i have not been there lately, don't blame me if it is changed). HTH, Murali -Original Message- From: Justin Vo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 4:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: certification expire [7:72786] Dear All, I would like to know what happen if my CCNA expire but i have two passed exams of the CCNP. Do you loose all these exams and redo the whole thing ? or can I continue with the CCNP once I redo my CCNA exam ? or even if you know any email of cisco that I can ask this question is also good. Much appreciate. Justin Vo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=72796&t=72786 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: cisco 2511 Terminal Server for my first time! [7:53791]
Also ensure that Stopbits are one in the Line 1 16 issue command, stopbits 1 and verify the same with show line 1 or which ever u r connecting. HTH, Murali -Original Message- From: jhodge [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 10:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: cisco 2511 Terminal Server for my first time! [7:53791] I would highly recommend you use the ip host command for your telnet connections. Bring down the possibility of fat fingering the keyboard. You should configure the loopback ip address for the reverse telnet E.g. --- conf term interface loopback 0 ip address 192.168.1.1 255.255.255.255 exit ip host test 2001 192.168.1.1 line 1 16 no exec transport input all exit Then type test to go to the device that is off the octal cable position 1. Cheers, Jamie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan V Hays Sent: June 17, 2003 12:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: cisco 2511 Terminal Server for my first time! [7:53791] ??? wrote: > Hi, > > I am setting up 2511 terminal server for my first time, but don't work... > > this is my 2511 configuration : > > > line con 0 > > line 1 16 > session-timeout 20 > exec-timeout 0 0 > > line aux 0 > > line vty 0 4 > password > login > > > In above, i found i missed one command in "line con 0" prompt. > --> line con 0 > transport input all > So, i tried to type the command, but couldn't. The result is > > -- > Router#conf t > Enter configuration commands, one per line. End with CNTL/Z. > Router(config)#line con 0 > Router(config-line)#transport input all > ^ > % Invalid input detected at '^' marker. > > Router(config-line)# > -- > > I don't know why the command can't be input. There is the command In > cisco documentation. > (http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/793/access_dial/comm_server.html) > > Anyone can help me? > > sooil.. > > [TABLE NOT SHOWN][TABLE NOT SHOWN][IMAGE] You are putting the command in the wrong line. Put it here: line 1 16 no exec transport input all Also, you do not state what command you are using to test with. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=70849&t=53791 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Best sniffer [7:26030]
Free then it is ethereal.com...
Willing to pay... Sniffer pro..
Make a choice.
Murali
""Ali Mesdaq"" wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> whats the best sniffer? i want one thats intuitive and powerful.
> something that can unwrap packets to the data content and if possbile
> let you view communications between machines by orginizing the packets
> for you. if its free that would be good too
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RE: Etherchannel between 5509 and Intel Pro/100 NIC [7:25746]
[ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ]
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I done the channeling on compaq servers with compaq nic's and that was
simple...(a few clicks)
I forced it in both places.. Works fine..
is there a way to force the NICs to a certain mode?
Yes there is a way u can force the nics to work as 10 or 100 or duplex
(this can be done in advance properties of the NIC in Windows Environment)
But to make 2 nics work as single u need additional software..(compaq
teaming in case of compaq servers I don't know abt others)
Which os are u running ? On which server ?
Rgds,
Murali
-Original Message-
From: Doug Korell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 1:47 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Etherchannel between 5509 and Intel Pro/100 NIC [7:25746]
I am setting up etherchannel between a 5509 and two Intel Pro/100 server
adapters and if I set the etherchannel mode to "desirable" on the 5509, it
shows no ports are channeling. Using "auto" doesn't show channeling either.
If I set it to "on", then of course it shows my ports are channeling but I
read that if you use "on", both sides should be forced. Problem is I can't
find a way to do it on Intel NICs. I used Intel ProSet II to team the
adapters using fast etherchannel.
For those that may have set this up before, is there a way to force the NICs
to a certain mode and should I be able to see the NICs when doing a "sho
port channel" if they 5509 is set to desirable or auto?
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FW: Use Cisco routers to detect and log port scanning [7:24611]
Hi..
Got this message from techrepublic... Thought It might be useful Surprising
thing is IOS as Input/output supervisor ??? What is he talking off ?
Murali
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Port scanning is one method intruders use to hunt for potential targets
on Internet hosts. Port scanning is relatively simple to do, and there
are plenty of tools available for both operator-controlled and automated
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it's not likely that these two worms are the last we'll see of automated
port scanning, it's important to be able to detect port scanning
activity. Blocking ports at the router level can identify hostile hosts
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capability to block and log access to and from specific IP networks and
User Datagram Protocol (UDP) and Transmission Control Protocol (TCP)
ports. While this feature is available on other router equipment, this
article focuses on how to use Cisco routers to block and detect port
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CNET's Download.com. (NOTE: CNET is the parent company of TechRepublic.)
http://click.online.com/Click?q=e4-ABYFQVkB4jIq58bIjLPMWTCX91cR
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RE: 5509 prob. [7:24461]
sh ver WS-C5509 Software, Version McpSW: 4.5(1) NmpSW: 4.5(1)
Copyright (c) 1995-1999 by Cisco Systems
NMP S/W compiled on Mar 29 1999, 16:09:01
MCP S/W compiled on Mar 29 1999, 16:06:50
-Original Message-
From: AMR [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 9:30 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: 5509 prob. [7:24461]
what version OS are you running on it?
""Muralidhar A."" wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Hi...
>
> I am facing a strange problem. With this 5509 that I have..
>
> 1. when I set the date with the set command it accepts. But when show
config
> is given..it displays a wrong date..
>
> 2. I have 2 line cards with 48 ports of 10 Mbps.. When I changes the
> ports to diff vlan's via TELNET there is no problem.. But when I do
> the same via CONSOLE.. Whole switch reset's..
>
> What could be the reason ? ? Any ideas
>
> Thanks and regards,
> Murali
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> Samuel immediately either at +968- 684152 Extn 398 or
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> and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.
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5509 prob. [7:24461]
Hi...
I am facing a strange problem. With this 5509 that I have..
1. when I set the date with the set command it accepts. But when show config
is given..it displays a wrong date..
2. I have 2 line cards with 48 ports of 10 Mbps.. When I changes the ports
to diff vlan's via TELNET there is no problem.. But when I do the same via
CONSOLE.. Whole switch reset's..
What could be the reason ? ? Any ideas
Thanks and regards,
Murali
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Study Group in Muscat.. [7:24333]
Hi.
Anyone in Muscat.. .. We could group ourselves for Mission CCIE :-))
Anyone interested kindly contact me offline...on [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks,
murali
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RE: is it really bad market for ccie ? [7:24297]
This no Good for the spirits of those who r preparing for CCIE Like me :-(((
Well trust What ever happens Happens for Good.
Murali
-Original Message-
From: nrf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 5:25 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: is it really bad market for ccie ? [7:24297]
Here's my thoughts
* Yes, I know several CCIE's who are having trouble finding work. And yes,
I know one guy who has 2 CCIE's (R/S and ISPDial) who is having trouble
finding work. For those of you who think it might be due to lack of
experience, the guys I am talking about have at least 5 years of experience,
and the dual-guy has more than 10, including more than 5 at Cisco as an SE.
* My understanding is that the one-day lab is significantly harder than the
older 2-day lab. But of course, this might be compensated for by the fact
that the wait list will be shorter (eventually).
* I don't know that Cisco has too many CCIE tracks. Right now there are 3
active tracks. This is like the old days of the program, when they also
used to have 3 (R/S, ISP-Dial, WAN) [Note, Ok, in the really old days, I
know there used to be only the R/S]. But I remember at one point last year
or so, there were actually 5 active tracks (R/S, ISP-Dial, WAN, Design,
SNA/IP). Now that really was too many tracks.
* You're right, why bother (esp. with the R/S)? Sorry guys, I know this
sounds harsh, and I know that I'm going to get flamed for this, but if I had
to do it all over again, I don't know that I would try to get the R/S.
Now by that, let me be clear. There is nothing wrong with learning the R/S
material. That is always good. Everybody should learn the material that
the R/S guy knows.But as far as doing actual test prep - getting my
typing and configuration speed up so that I can set up BGP and OSPF in 10
minutes, actually paying for the test and travelling to the test site, I
don't know that I would put myself through that again unless it was worth
it. Let's face it. This isn't 1998-1999 anymore. Who knows when, or even
if, things will get better? Particularly when there is probably a much
more valuable cert program out there. Which is why I am moving on to ...
* Juniper. I don't think the same market forces hold for Juniper, at least
not to the same degree. The Juniper market is much less saturated than the
Cisco market. Consider this - there are about 6650 CCIE's out there, of
which probably about 6400 are R/S'ers. Right now there are 20 JNCIE's. So
despite the fact that the demand for Juniper skills is smaller, I have a
very difficult time believing it is 320 times smaller.You can check out
my old post (7:3485, posted 10/1/01, on Re:Is the CCIE really worth it),
where I discuss this subject at length.
""Chuck Larrieu"" wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> for those who've never seen one in their adult working lives, yeah,
> this
is
> a serious downturn, and yeah, the economy is bad right now. Don't
> worry - skilled people can always find work. there are going to be a
> lot of structural changes over the next few years. Keep your skills
> up. Keep a
good
> attitude. Keep reading, and practicing and thinking.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 3:30 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: is it really bad market for ccie ? [7:24297]
>
>
> some one (lots of them ) said it's really hard to find job in
> networking even for ccie or dual ccie ,is it really true people ? the
> 1 day lab is really getting harder (much harder than the 2 day) and
> cisco has to many ccie track now ,why bother getting ccie security or
> com when one can not get a job, ccie of ...hope maybe same thing for
> juniper i guess 2 months ago i really looking forward to my lab but
> now i'm having second though .
> just my 2 cent
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Serial No's [7:24325]
I have a 2924 Switch with me ? Can I change the serial on the board... It is
displayed with Sh ver..command..
Murali
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RE: OSPF Router ID and IP Addresses [7:24003]
Router choose Numerically highest ip address as it ID.. In this case I think
it will be 193.221.200.1
If the router is configured with a loopback address then it would be given
priority... I think once the router has chosen its router ID then it stay
fixed..
Murali
-Original Message-
From: Thompson, Robert D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 2:50 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: OSPF Router ID and IP Addresses [7:24003]
Hi All,
Can anybody clear something up for me.
In OSPF when selecting the Router ID, what Interface will OSPF choose as the
Router ID on this particular router. For example
Interface Ethernet 0
IP address 10.1.1.1 255.0.0.0
Interface Ethernet 1
IP address 172.16.100.1 255.255.0.0
Interface Ethernet 2
IP address 193.221.200.1 255.255.255.0
rest of config not listed for this discussion and IP address structure made
up for the discussion
(in this case I won't use a loopback interface, purely to discuss Router ID
and IP address considerations)
I understand its the highest IP address that will win, in this case will it
be 10.1.1.1? or will it be 193.221.200.1
I will appreciate any comments
Cheers
Rob
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Re: CCIE Advanced Network Design and Case Studies
I guess this book fully is avaliable on www.cisco.com free of cost but yes u have to print it in case u need a hardcopy of the same... i have done that. :-) cheers "FRS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:<8r3lsc$193$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>... > One of the "must-haves" for your collection as you start your journey > towards CCIE status, also make sure you get Interconnections by Dr. Radia > Perlman, Douglas Comer's book, Bruce Caslow's book and at Lab Prep time get > the Satterlee book. > > ""Bruce"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message > 8r3j6r$t74$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:8r3j6r$t74$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > I am buying the book "CCIE Fundamentals: Network Design and Case Studies, > > Second Edition (Certification) to help me prepare for the CCIE Design. > Would > > someone who has read this book give me their opinion of it? > > > > Bruce > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html > > _ > > UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html > _ > UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: How to get rid of "Loading network-config ... [timed out]
in the config mode enter "service no configs" that should solve it... cheers Murali -Original Message- From: Roger Wright [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 11:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: How to get rid of "Loading network-config ... [timed out] Dear Networkers, Please tell me how to configure my 2611 router so that I don't constantly get the following messages: Loading network-confg ... [timed out] Loading cisconet.cfg ... [timed out] Loading routera-confg ... [timed out] Loading routera.cfg ... [timed out] Thanks in advance, Roger Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Recall: How to get rid of "Loading network-config ... [timed out]
Muralidhar A. would like to recall the message, "How to get rid of "Loading network-config ... [timed out]". **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Radius !!
hi well i configured radius and things were smooth untill now... the radius server has crashed and now the router does not allow anyone to login... it asks for a password and tells rejects it.. even from the console port... to worsen things i don't know what ports were used? and what was the key word... now what do i do ? has anyone come across this situ ? if yes what to do in this case... Well as far as my knoledge goes i am thinking of breaking this password on the router and reconfigure the whole stuff. is there any other alternative... ? murali **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: auto-negotiate not reliable
yeah very true with Sun had a horrible time till i could discover this..:-) murali -Original Message- From: Healis, Jim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 8:54 PM To: 'Doug Laing'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: auto-negotiate not reliable I have seen problems like this with certain NIC cards, in particular my experience has been poor with 3Com PC Cards. Also, auto-negotiation seems to be problematic between Sun machines and Cisco equipment. The best I can tell is when both sides are set to "auto" they never are able to decide on one setting or the other and eventually fail due to the numerous errors on the interface that accrue while trying to negotiate. I have always played with the settings on the switch port until I see no errors. Jim Healis, CCDP, CCNP Senior Network Administrator Virata p: 408/566-1004 c: 408/210-8122 -Original Message- From: Doug Laing [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 8:55 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:auto-negotiate not reliable Can someone explain to me why auto-negotiate on a Catalyst 5500 and a NIC is not always reliable. **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Packet drops...
hi.. i have a 2916 to connect to sun E3500 and Aix Machines. the sun hold Oracle databases (not yet live) while Aix runs cobol and wisp(major load is on this). the customer was complaining that the oracle sessions get disconnected intermittenly. i just ran a few ping tests and this reveals that Sun ,NT and Aix Are dropping packets. However running the same test for over a period of time reavealed that Sun has consistently dropped packets ( both on peak and off peak) where as Aix has dropped when on Peak. Ports on 2916 have been changed and result not improved. any ideas to pin point where problems lies.. Thanks for any help, Murali ___ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ideal 64k???
Hi freinds, Was just wondering what would be an ideal Transfer rate between 2 machines connected on a dedicated 64k lease line. ? yesterday i was making an FTP to a sun server across this 64 k line( in off -peak hrs) i got around 7.37 kb/sec. what would be an ideal transfer rate ? Thanks Murali ___ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CNR
Hi Has anyone worked with CNR 3.5... i need to place a soultion on this.. could anyone give me technical links on this product of Cisco... i searched but all i could get were marketing stuff.. and not much on tech side.. regards, Murali ___ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FW: Resolve Networking Problems Without Opening A Case
> _ > > Cisco Technical Assistance Center (TAC) > News Flash - July 25, 2000 > http://www.cisco.com/tac > > - > > Cisco "TAC Top Issues" Pages For > LAN, Access-Dial, IBM, and Password Recovery > Now Available Via the Cisco TAC Web Site! > _ > > > Dear Cisco Customer, > > I am pleased to announce the Cisco TAC Web site's new > "TAC Top Issues" section, located at http://www.cisco.com/tac > This easily accessible resource will help you quickly > identify and resolve common networking problems. > > Developed by Cisco TAC engineers, the solutions found > in the "Top Issues" section represent the most typical > networking challenges reported by Cisco customers > worldwide. Cisco TAC engineers regularly review > "Top Issues" solutions so that they are always fresh. > As specific networking problems decrease in reported > frequency worldwide, technical solutions are shifted > to an appropriate "Product" or "Technology" section > of the TAC Web site. No stale content here... > > "TAC Top Issues" categories currently available: > - LAN > - Access-Dial > - IBM > - Password Recovery > > Additional categories will be added shortly! > Please visit Cisco's "TAC Top Issues" section > today at http://www.cisco.com/tac > > > Sincerely, > Steve Gordon > Director, Cisco TAC Web Services > > > > > --- > Copyright (c) 2000 Cisco Systems is a trademark, and Cisco, > Cisco Systems, the Cisco Systems logo are registered > trademarks in the U.S. or certain other countries worldwide. > > > > If you do not wish to receive future communications about > the latest online technical support content and tools from > Cisco, please respond to this e-mail and write > "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the subject heading. > > You are subscribed at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Routing 2.0
Hi.. I have CCIE ip routing vol-1 and also the ACRC study guide by mcgraw hill and orginal ACRC student manual Is this sufficient for the Support 2.0 Murali The Pessimist complains about the wind; The Optimist expects it to change...and The Realist adjusts the sail. - William Arthur Ward ___ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
dilemma.
Hi.. I am CCNA, sun certified admin, MCSE CNE and some other cert's too but now I am in a dilemma. As some of the seniors here and friends have suggested that instead of going in for CCNP I start preparing for CCIE directly... I would like to ask the Guru's of Cisco in this group to suggest what is the better for ones career and knowledge... Thanks in advance, Murali The Pessimist complains about the wind; The Optimist expects it to change...and The Realist adjusts the sail. - William Arthur Ward ___ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
