For Priscilla [7:71462]
I have been trying to get Troubleshooting Campus Networks for the longest time. I've met Joeseph B. He is one of the smartest guys I've ever encountered. Can you tell me PLEASE why your book is so hard to get? Mauricio H Fernandez Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=71462&t=71462 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: For Priscilla [7:71462]
In my experience, networking books at the brick store are often related to certification, as that's a big market. (So is web technology, in all its various flavors -- the other 3 racks of books). Within the certification universe, MCS is _big_, CCNA is fairly big, the plus series (especially A+, but some of the others) are fairly big, and CISSP seems quite popular the past few months. CCIE books are often present (some of which are even good ;-)). But the middle-range or intermediate certification books are somehow always missing. I geenerally order from Amazon, or the author's website. http://www.troubleshootingnetworks.com/ Good luck! Annlee For good ""Mauricio H Fernandez"" wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > I have been trying to get Troubleshooting Campus Networks for the > longest time. I've met Joeseph B. He is one of the smartest guys I've > ever encountered. Can you tell me PLEASE why your book is so hard to get? > > Mauricio H Fernandez Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=71469&t=71462 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: For Priscilla [7:71462]
Go to www.bookpool.com and order it. It cost $50.50 Reza ""Mauricio H Fernandez"" wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > I have been trying to get Troubleshooting Campus Networks for the > longest time. I've met Joeseph B. He is one of the smartest guys I've > ever encountered. Can you tell me PLEASE why your book is so hard to get? > > Mauricio H Fernandez Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=71467&t=71462 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: For Priscilla [7:71462]
Thats funny. I was looking this morning. Amazon says they'll ship it and her other book in 24 hours http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-keywor ds=priscilla%20oppenheimer&search-type=ss&bq=1/103-2498254-6602210 -Original Message- From: Mauricio H Fernandez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 10:40 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: For Priscilla [7:71462] I have been trying to get Troubleshooting Campus Networks for the longest time. I've met Joeseph B. He is one of the smartest guys I've ever encountered. Can you tell me PLEASE why your book is so hard to get? Mauricio H Fernandez Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=71470&t=71462 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: For Priscilla [7:71462]
Or if you don't want to order online just go to any bookstore and order ISBN: 0471210137 - Original Message - From: "Reza" To: Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 2:34 PM Subject: Re: For Priscilla [7:71462] > Go to www.bookpool.com and order it. > It cost $50.50 > > Reza > > ""Mauricio H Fernandez"" wrote in message > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > I have been trying to get Troubleshooting Campus Networks for the > > longest time. I've met Joeseph B. He is one of the smartest guys I've > > ever encountered. Can you tell me PLEASE why your book is so hard to get? > > > > Mauricio H Fernandez Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=71478&t=71462 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: For Priscilla [7:71462]
That is very interesting. Can you give us a little more background about how your relationship with your publisher went so badly wrong? I for one know very little about how publisher-author deals work and would like to hear more, it it's not too painful to relate! > Obviously I made a big mistake in choice of publisher, but who > could have known? They are one of the most prestigious > publishers. But their motto is: > > "If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, > it doesn't matter. At least the other forests didn't get the > tree." > > Am I bitter? You bet. I was swindled. > > Priscilla Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=71522&t=71462 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: For Priscilla [7:71462]
Hello, Most of these things we sometimes have to learn the hard way - like choice of a publisher and many other choices!! I remember before I became good at choosing shirts; I always used to make mistakes, only to find out later that I really do not like this shirt.. But now, I know a good shirt just when I look at it :) It is normal :) Mwalie Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=71529&t=71462 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: For Priscilla [7:71462]
Are you saying that Priscilla is changing publishers as other people shirts?!? :) At 01:57 PM 6/27/2003 +, Mwalie W wrote: >Hello, > >Most of these things we sometimes have to learn the hard way - like choice >of a publisher and many other choices!! > >I remember before I became good at choosing shirts; I always used to make >mistakes, only to find out later that I really do not like this shirt.. > >But now, I know a good shirt just when I look at it :) > >It is normal :) > >Mwalie Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=71538&t=71462 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: For Priscilla [7:71462]
As an author (with the same publisher, and more or less the same experience, I'm afraid), I must comment. A publishing contract is almost as one-sided as buying a house -- once you agree, you are stuck with a long-term proposition. Knowing that, it's still hard to make an intelligent choice unless one is a very prolific writer, because (also like buying a house), it's not something you do often. A typical contract may leave you with the copyright (not all do, BTW), but what you can actually do with that copyright may be quite limited. You probably will not, for instance, be able to separately publish an electronic version of the same book. You will not be able to arrange a print-on-demand version with Kinko's or other locally-convenient printers. You may be required to give the publisher the right of first refusal on your next book (they've turned down the one I wanted to do a year ago, which is good -- I have a better idea, now, and I will present it and publish my way, and the only one I'll have to praise or blame is me). Setting up a link on your ownwebsite may be the most you can do to facilitate book sales in this environment. Annlee ""Zsombor Papp"" wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Are you saying that Priscilla is changing publishers as other people > shirts?!? > > :) > > At 01:57 PM 6/27/2003 +, Mwalie W wrote: > >Hello, > > > >Most of these things we sometimes have to learn the hard way - like choice > >of a publisher and many other choices!! > > > >I remember before I became good at choosing shirts; I always used to make > >mistakes, only to find out later that I really do not like this shirt.. > > > >But now, I know a good shirt just when I look at it :) > > > >It is normal :) > > > >Mwalie Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=71543&t=71462 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: For Priscilla [7:71462]
Dom wrote: > > As a shirt-lifter (an old English expression) Can you tell us what it means? Or not on this type of list. :-) > I have no idea > what you > are talking about. > And, you have confused my cats! > > Best regards, > > Dom Stocqueler > SysDom Technologies > Visit our website - www.sysdom.org > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of > Zsombor Papp > Sent: 27 June 2003 16:34 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: For Priscilla [7:71462] > > > Are you saying that Priscilla is changing publishers as other > people > shirts?!? > > :) > > At 01:57 PM 6/27/2003 +, Mwalie W wrote: > >Hello, > > > >Most of these things we sometimes have to learn the hard way - > like > >choice of a publisher and many other choices!! > > > >I remember before I became good at choosing shirts; I always > used to > >make mistakes, only to find out later that I really do not > like this > >shirt.. > > > >But now, I know a good shirt just when I look at it :) > > > >It is normal :) > > > >Mwalie > > Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=71559&t=71462 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: For Priscilla [7:71462]
As a shirt-lifter (an old English expression) I have no idea what you are talking about. And, you have confused my cats! Best regards, Dom Stocqueler SysDom Technologies Visit our website - www.sysdom.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zsombor Papp Sent: 27 June 2003 16:34 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: For Priscilla [7:71462] Are you saying that Priscilla is changing publishers as other people shirts?!? :) At 01:57 PM 6/27/2003 +, Mwalie W wrote: >Hello, > >Most of these things we sometimes have to learn the hard way - like >choice of a publisher and many other choices!! > >I remember before I became good at choosing shirts; I always used to >make mistakes, only to find out later that I really do not like this >shirt.. > >But now, I know a good shirt just when I look at it :) > >It is normal :) > >Mwalie Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=71555&t=71462 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: For Priscilla [7:71462]
Black Jack wrote: > > That is very interesting. Can you give us a little more > background about how your relationship with your publisher went > so badly wrong? Sounds like I exaggerated a bit. :-) It didn't go that wrong. The publisher says that the problems are all related to the economic downturn. I have my doubts, though. Cisco Press is still doing well. Of course, they have that vendor name on their books which helps I'm sure. People aren't buying books, supposedly. Are you? :-) Just wondering... > I for one know very little about how > publisher-author deals work and would like to hear more, it > it's not too painful to relate! I can't tell you about my specific deal, but I can explain the process a little bit. A writer works with an acquisitions editor. An acquisitions editor is a sales person with extremely good negotiation skills. He or she sells the author on the idea of working with the publisher. He or she also works with the publisher's legal department to produce a contract that has everything in the pusblisher's favor: * No actual promises with regards to publishing, marketing or distributing the book * Exclusive rights which means that even if they do an awful job, the author can't use the content for anything else * Requirement that you give your next book to them too (I refuse to sign that one, though) * Royalties that range a lot from publisher to publisher, anywhere from 8% to 19% of the sale on each book, based on the price that the publisher gives to the book reseller, which is much lower than the price that the reader pays * Gazillions of exceptions to the royalties, with a lower rate for internatainal sales, online sales, etc. etc. * An advance on the royalties, ranging from $1000 to $15,000 for a really good publisher (this is one of the good things they do :-) Of course, as with everything, the author gets what he or she negotiates, but a lot of us aren't very good negotiators. That's why many authors work with an agent. Oh, and did I mention that you shouldn't expect the publisher to do a good job with the things that you think of when you think "publisher" including editing, figure drawing (they insist on redrawing the figures), copy for the back of the book, copy for Amazon and other marketing materials. Many of them do an awful job with these tasks. Look at all the mistakes in the books. In most cases they weren't introduced by the author. The author is supposed to catch them with the "page proofs" but that's much harder than it sounds, and sometimes the errors get introduced after the page proofs. Just the other day I was reading a really good book about voice. The author said something about the DSPs in Cisco routers that do the analog-to-digital conversion and other tasks. DSP was spelled out as "domain specific part." An editor at work. I had an editor who tried to change "powers of two" to "groups of two?" An editor working in the computer industry didn't understand the powers of two!? And that is par for the course. Now, I do have to say that the editors of Top-Down Network Design did a great job. The only mistakes that really drive me nuts are in the index, which they didn't have me proof. I hate the fact that they spelled on LFN as long filename in the index, when the page that uses the acronym uses it to refer to Long Fat Networks. And they put "top-down network" in the index with lots of references. What the heck is a top-down network? With Troubleshooting Campus Networks, a lot of the mistakes were because I didn't page proof well enough, I have to admit. I assumed they had done a good job, which they hadn't. But they did a great index, on the other hand. So there you have way more info than you probably wanted! :-) Priscilla > > > > Obviously I made a big mistake in choice of publisher, but who > > could have known? They are one of the most prestigious > > publishers. But their motto is: > > > > "If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear > it, > > it doesn't matter. At least the other forests didn't get the > > tree." > > > > Am I bitter? You bet. I was swindled. > > > > Priscilla > Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=71552&t=71462 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: For Priscilla [7:71462]
At 4:50 PM + 6/27/03, annlee wrote: >As an author (with the same publisher, and more or less the same experience, >I'm afraid), I must comment. A publishing contract is almost as one-sided as >buying a house -- once you agree, you are stuck with a long-term >proposition. Knowing that, it's still hard to make an intelligent choice >unless one is a very prolific writer, because (also like buying a house), >it's not something you do often. My mentor in writing books specializes more in software titles, and literally has published dozens. One of his approaches, given that he has the infrastructure to write full-time, is to work with several publishers and make them compete. > >A typical contract may leave you with the copyright (not all do, BTW), but >what you can actually do with that copyright may be quite limited. You >probably will not, for instance, be able to separately publish an electronic >version of the same book. You will not be able to arrange a print-on-demand >version with Kinko's or other locally-convenient printers. You may be >required to give the publisher the right of first refusal on your next book >(they've turned down the one I wanted to do a year ago, which is good -- I >have a better idea, now, and I will present it and publish my way, and the >only one I'll have to praise or blame is me). > >Setting up a link on your ownwebsite may be the most you can do to >facilitate book sales in this environment. > >Annlee > >""Zsombor Papp"" wrote in message >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Are you saying that Priscilla is changing publishers as other people >> shirts?!? >> >> :) >> >> At 01:57 PM 6/27/2003 +, Mwalie W wrote: >> >Hello, >> > >> >Most of these things we sometimes have to learn the hard way - like >choice >> >of a publisher and many other choices!! >> > >> >I remember before I became good at choosing shirts; I always used to make >> >mistakes, only to find out later that I really do not like this shirt.. >> > >> >But now, I know a good shirt just when I look at it :) >> > >> >It is normal :) >> > >> >Mwalie Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=71561&t=71462 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: For Priscilla [7:71462]
Thanks for the eye-opener. I did not know that many of the errors one finds in technical books are introduced in the editorial process. Nor did I know that the publishers are not strong on things like diagrams and cover art. It sounds like I might do better working out the kinks in my Visio diagrams imported into Word, than relying on a publisher to be able to do a better job. I was thinking of using one of my nice-looking Visio diagrams as cover art, perhaps jazzing that one up with color. I don't care about getting an advance up front. If my book of CCIE lab advice and scenarios with detailed explanations (like Hutnik and Saterlee CCIE Lab Practice Kit) is of high quality, it will sell pretty well. The key, for me, is to make sure that it is of high quality. A few errors on crucial points can render an otherwise great technical book untrustworthy. I have caught some errors in my first three scenarios, and will probably find some in the next draft, too. The key to good writing is rewriting, I have been told. The only reason left for submitting a book to a big name publisher is to be able to say "I have a book published by Big Publisher, Inc." For someone without an established name or reputation, that is still something, but your post changes the whole cost/benefit analysis. I will have my hands full correcting my own mistakes, without having to fix the mistakes of editors. Thanks, Tom Larus, CCIE #10,014 Oppenheimer"" wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Black Jack wrote: > > > > That is very interesting. Can you give us a little more > > background about how your relationship with your publisher went > > so badly wrong? > > Sounds like I exaggerated a bit. :-) It didn't go that wrong. The publisher > says that the problems are all related to the economic downturn. I have my > doubts, though. > > Cisco Press is still doing well. Of course, they have that vendor name on > their books which helps I'm sure. > > People aren't buying books, supposedly. Are you? :-) Just wondering... > > > I for one know very little about how > > publisher-author deals work and would like to hear more, it > > it's not too painful to relate! > > I can't tell you about my specific deal, but I can explain the process a > little bit. > > A writer works with an acquisitions editor. An acquisitions editor is a > sales person with extremely good negotiation skills. He or she sells the > author on the idea of working with the publisher. He or she also works with > the publisher's legal department to produce a contract that has everything > in the pusblisher's favor: > > * No actual promises with regards to publishing, marketing or distributing > the book > > * Exclusive rights which means that even if they do an awful job, the author > can't use the content for anything else > > * Requirement that you give your next book to them too (I refuse to sign > that one, though) > > * Royalties that range a lot from publisher to publisher, anywhere from 8% > to 19% of the sale on each book, based on the price that the publisher gives > to the book reseller, which is much lower than the price that the reader pays > > * Gazillions of exceptions to the royalties, with a lower rate for > internatainal sales, online sales, etc. etc. > > * An advance on the royalties, ranging from $1000 to $15,000 for a really > good publisher (this is one of the good things they do :-) > > Of course, as with everything, the author gets what he or she negotiates, > but a lot of us aren't very good negotiators. That's why many authors work > with an agent. > > Oh, and did I mention that you shouldn't expect the publisher to do a good > job with the things that you think of when you think "publisher" including > editing, figure drawing (they insist on redrawing the figures), copy for the > back of the book, copy for Amazon and other marketing materials. Many of > them do an awful job with these tasks. Look at all the mistakes in the > books. In most cases they weren't introduced by the author. The author is > supposed to catch them with the "page proofs" but that's much harder than it > sounds, and sometimes the errors get introduced after the page proofs. > > Just the other day I was reading a really good book about voice. The author > said something about the DSPs in Cisco routers that do the analog-to-digital > conversion and other tasks. DSP was spelled out as "domain specific part." > An editor at work. > > I had an editor who tried to change "powers of two" to "groups of two?" An > editor working in the computer industry didn't understand the powers of > two!? And that is par for the course. > > Now, I do have to say that the editors of Top-Down Network Design did a > great job. The only mistakes that really drive me nuts are in the index, > which they didn't have me proof. I hate the fact that they spelled on LFN as > long filename in the index, when the page that uses the acronym uses it to > refer to Long Fat Networks. And they put "top-do
Re: For Priscilla [7:71462]
At 3:27 PM + 6/28/03, Thomas Larus wrote: >Thanks for the eye-opener. I did not know that many of the errors one finds >in technical books are introduced in the editorial process. There were two reasons I switched from Macmillan (deceased sister of Cisco Press, but using lots of Cisco Press conventions) to Wiley: lack of marketing (far less true of Cisco Press), and their insistence on using a "development editor". Development editors are _not_ copy editors, but conceptually have the role of "helping poor techies write and express themselves." Well, some of us poor techies already can write -- indeed, some of us have been editors. I found her to be a constant obstacle. For example, she kept insisting, even when three peer reviewers also told her she was wrong, that a "two order of magnitude" increase meant doubling, not going up by 10 to the power 2. Now, there are other people that liked their development editor and found it a useful process. It's really a very individual thing, and one size does not fit all. What works for me is to have a strong technical colleague as reader and sounding board (Scott Bradner for the WAN Survival Guide, and Annlee Hines for Building Service Provider Networks). For the second book, I finally found an editor that added to the process, Stephanie Landis. Officially, Stephanie was the copy editor, but went slightly beyond that to the point I needed -- tell me something doesn't flow, but don't try to fix it. Wherever possible, I have CertZone contract with Stephanie to edit my papers, but also have a technical reviewer. Cisco Press has gotten more reasonable over time, or it may be that I know enough people and have enough track record that I might be willing to do another book with them. At least in the present economy, though, professional web self-publishing may be a viable option. That doesn't mean I won't use editors, graphics people, etc., but they will be people I know will add to the process. Self-publishing also simplifies the update/errata process. >Nor did I know >that the publishers are not strong on things like diagrams and cover art. >It sounds like I might do better working out the kinks in my Visio diagrams >imported into Word, than relying on a publisher to be able to do a better >job. I was thinking of using one of my nice-looking Visio diagrams as cover >art, perhaps jazzing that one up with color. I haven't found a publisher that really redraws -- they do things, instead, such as standardize line widths, page alignment, etc. There have been a few times where I would have liked to work with a graphics professional to work out a very hard drawing with which I wasn't getting the results that I wanted, but, in general, this is something that has to be contracted on a case-by-case basis. The publisher graphics people get involved, typically, only with the finished manuscript. I don't know if there is an industry standard for drawing, although the people I've talked to tend to use Adobe Illustrator. All the publishers I know use Quark for page layout, which has interesting ripple effects on what you can and can't do in Word. > >I don't care about getting an advance up front. If my book of CCIE lab >advice and scenarios with detailed explanations (like Hutnik and Saterlee >CCIE Lab Practice Kit) is of high quality, it will sell pretty well. The >key, for me, is to make sure that it is of high quality. A few errors on >crucial points can render an otherwise great technical book untrustworthy. >I have caught some errors in my first three scenarios, and will probably >find some in the next draft, too. The key to good writing is rewriting, I >have been told. > >The only reason left for submitting a book to a big name publisher is to be >able to say "I have a book published by Big Publisher, Inc." For someone >without an established name or reputation, that is still something, but your >post changes the whole cost/benefit analysis. I will have my hands full >correcting my own mistakes, without having to fix the mistakes of editors. > >Thanks, >Tom Larus, CCIE #10,014 > > > >Oppenheimer"" wrote in message >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Black Jack wrote: >> > >> > That is very interesting. Can you give us a little more >> > background about how your relationship with your publisher went >> > so badly wrong? >> >> Sounds like I exaggerated a bit. :-) It didn't go that wrong. The >publisher >> says that the problems are all related to the economic downturn. I have my >> doubts, though. >> >> Cisco Press is still doing well. Of course, they have that vendor name on >> their books which helps I'm sure. >> >> People aren't buying books, supposedly. Are you? :-) Just wondering... >> >> > I for one know very little about how >> > publisher-author deals work and would like to hear more, it >> > it's not too painful to relate! >> >> I can't tell you about my specific deal, but I can explain the process a >>
Re: For Priscilla [7:71462]
Re drawings: When I published my book with Wiley, they wanted the drawings as separate files, either in native Quark or Visio .vsd -- they would take PowerPoint .ppt but with the understanding that they would have them redrawn/reworked. Re self-publishing: I do think that's the way to go -- faster to the public, easier to correct when mistakes do creep in (and they do -- we all change something and then miss one or two of the ripple effects). And with web publishing, you can include color drawings, which are immensely clearer than those limited to gray-scale. The one drawback, and it's a big one for most technical authors, is marketing -- we aren't good at it. Solve that, and we have a possible revolution in *timely* and *high-quality* material for people to learn from. Annlee Howard C. Berkowitz wrote: > At 3:27 PM + 6/28/03, Thomas Larus wrote: > >>Thanks for the eye-opener. I did not know that many of the errors one finds >>in technical books are introduced in the editorial process. > > > There were two reasons I switched from Macmillan (deceased sister of > Cisco Press, but using lots of Cisco Press conventions) to Wiley: > lack of marketing (far less true of Cisco Press), and their > insistence on using a "development editor". Development editors are > _not_ copy editors, but conceptually have the role of "helping poor > techies write and express themselves." Well, some of us poor techies > already can write -- indeed, some of us have been editors. I found > her to be a constant obstacle. For example, she kept insisting, even > when three peer reviewers also told her she was wrong, that a "two > order of magnitude" increase meant doubling, not going up by 10 to > the power 2. > > Now, there are other people that liked their development editor and > found it a useful process. It's really a very individual thing, and > one size does not fit all. What works for me is to have a strong > technical colleague as reader and sounding board (Scott Bradner for > the WAN Survival Guide, and Annlee Hines for Building Service > Provider Networks). For the second book, I finally found an editor > that added to the process, Stephanie Landis. Officially, Stephanie > was the copy editor, but went slightly beyond that to the point I > needed -- tell me something doesn't flow, but don't try to fix it. > Wherever possible, I have CertZone contract with Stephanie to edit my > papers, but also have a technical reviewer. > > Cisco Press has gotten more reasonable over time, or it may be that I > know enough people and have enough track record that I might be > willing to do another book with them. At least in the present > economy, though, professional web self-publishing may be a viable > option. That doesn't mean I won't use editors, graphics people, > etc., but they will be people I know will add to the process. > Self-publishing also simplifies the update/errata process. > > >>Nor did I know >>that the publishers are not strong on things like diagrams and cover art. >>It sounds like I might do better working out the kinks in my Visio diagrams >>imported into Word, than relying on a publisher to be able to do a better >>job. I was thinking of using one of my nice-looking Visio diagrams as cover >>art, perhaps jazzing that one up with color. > > > I haven't found a publisher that really redraws -- they do things, > instead, such as standardize line widths, page alignment, etc. There > have been a few times where I would have liked to work with a > graphics professional to work out a very hard drawing with which I > wasn't getting the results that I wanted, but, in general, this is > something that has to be contracted on a case-by-case basis. The > publisher graphics people get involved, typically, only with the > finished manuscript. > > I don't know if there is an industry standard for drawing, although > the people I've talked to tend to use Adobe Illustrator. All the > publishers I know use Quark for page layout, which has interesting > ripple effects on what you can and can't do in Word. > > >>I don't care about getting an advance up front. If my book of CCIE lab >>advice and scenarios with detailed explanations (like Hutnik and Saterlee >>CCIE Lab Practice Kit) is of high quality, it will sell pretty well. The >>key, for me, is to make sure that it is of high quality. A few errors on >>crucial points can render an otherwise great technical book untrustworthy. >>I have caught some errors in my first three scenarios, and will probably >>find some in the next draft, too. The key to good writing is rewriting, I >>have been told. >> >>The only reason left for submitting a book to a big name publisher is to be >>able to say "I have a book published by Big Publisher, Inc." For someone >>without an established name or reputation, that is still something, but your >>post changes the whole cost/benefit analysis. I will have my hands full >>correctin
Re: For Priscilla [7:71462]
Thomas Larus wrote: > > Thanks for the eye-opener. I did not know that many of the > errors one finds > in technical books are introduced in the editorial process. > Nor did I know > that the publishers are not strong on things like diagrams and > cover art. > It sounds like I might do better working out the kinks in my > Visio diagrams > imported into Word, than relying on a publisher to be able to > do a better > job. I was thinking of using one of my nice-looking Visio > diagrams as cover > art, perhaps jazzing that one up with color. Go for it. It will be just as good as anything you would get from a publisher, I bet. > > I don't care about getting an advance up front. If my book of > CCIE lab > advice and scenarios with detailed explanations (like Hutnik > and Saterlee > CCIE Lab Practice Kit) is of high quality, it will sell pretty > well. The > key, for me, is to make sure that it is of high quality. High quality doesn't mean your book will sell well. Alas, if only it did. How are you going to market and distribute it? Those are the most important factors in making sure it will sell. Another issue is pricing. The big-name publishers set the prices on their technial books very high. Perhaps you won't do that. > A few > errors on > crucial points can render an otherwise great technical book > untrustworthy. > I have caught some errors in my first three scenarios, and will > probably > find some in the next draft, too. The key to good writing is > rewriting, I > have been told. Absolutely. Rewriting, checking, editing, proof-reading. All that stuff is extremely important. Also, have someone else look it over. You tend not to find your own mistakes. > > The only reason left for submitting a book to a big name > publisher is to be > able to say "I have a book published by Big Publisher, Inc." > For someone > without an established name or reputation, that is still > something, but your > post changes the whole cost/benefit analysis. I will have my > hands full > correcting my own mistakes, without having to fix the mistakes > of editors. I agree. Do it yourself! Good luck! Priscilla > > Thanks, > Tom Larus, CCIE #10,014 > > > > Oppenheimer"" wrote in message > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Black Jack wrote: > > > > > > That is very interesting. Can you give us a little more > > > background about how your relationship with your publisher > went > > > so badly wrong? > > > > Sounds like I exaggerated a bit. :-) It didn't go that wrong. > The > publisher > > says that the problems are all related to the economic > downturn. I have my > > doubts, though. > > > > Cisco Press is still doing well. Of course, they have that > vendor name on > > their books which helps I'm sure. > > > > People aren't buying books, supposedly. Are you? :-) Just > wondering... > > > > > I for one know very little about how > > > publisher-author deals work and would like to hear more, it > > > it's not too painful to relate! > > > > I can't tell you about my specific deal, but I can explain > the process a > > little bit. > > > > A writer works with an acquisitions editor. An acquisitions > editor is a > > sales person with extremely good negotiation skills. He or > she sells the > > author on the idea of working with the publisher. He or she > also works > with > > the publisher's legal department to produce a contract that > has everything > > in the pusblisher's favor: > > > > * No actual promises with regards to publishing, marketing or > distributing > > the book > > > > * Exclusive rights which means that even if they do an awful > job, the > author > > can't use the content for anything else > > > > * Requirement that you give your next book to them too (I > refuse to sign > > that one, though) > > > > * Royalties that range a lot from publisher to publisher, > anywhere from 8% > > to 19% of the sale on each book, based on the price that the > publisher > gives > > to the book reseller, which is much lower than the price that > the reader > pays > > > > * Gazillions of exceptions to the royalties, with a lower > rate for > > internatainal sales, online sales, etc. etc. > > > > * An advance on the royalties, ranging from $1000 to $15,000 > for a really > > good publisher (this is one of the good things they do :-) > > > > Of course, as with everything, the author gets what he or she > negotiates, > > but a lot of us aren't very good negotiators. That's why many > authors work > > with an agent. > > > > Oh, and did I mention that you shouldn't expect the publisher > to do a good > > job with the things that you think of when you think > "publisher" including > > editing, figure drawing (they insist on redrawing the > figures), copy for > the > > back of the book, copy for Amazon and other marketing > materials. Many of > > them do an awful job with these tasks. Look at all the > mistakes in the > > books. In most cases they weren't introduced by the author. > The author is > > supposed to catch them wit
