Bill,
I agree with you in that it was very foolish to just start throwing pink
slips around without first finding out how these individuals may be able to
help the company. I'm sure many of them would be happy to take a pay cut and
would still be able to contribute valuable input. I don't believe it is a
weakness not having the so-called killer instinct. People with that trait
usually end up killing their own careers by making stupid, ego-based,
inaccurate decisions.
Shawn K.
-Original Message-
From: Creighton Bill-BCREIGH1 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 12:31 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Hello (long response) [7:5788]
Nrf, I always look forward to hearing your view. Your points are valid, and
I very much agree to your acknowledgement of the merging worlds of network
and systems engineering. As far as personnel management, though, my first
rule is to make decisions in the best interest of the company while ensuring
the staff is challenged and fulfilled. If Adrian's staff was not challenged
due to the diminished role of Routing and Switching, I don't believe his
first course of action should have been to throw them away. If they were
contractors to whom the company was not obligated to train outside the scope
of the original project, then concessions could have been made to
renegotiate the rate in return for realigned objectives. If they weren't
contractors, this is an example of a dangerous trend in all business
environments. There are ways around throwing an employee on the street. I
don't care WHAT kind of budget you have to work with. Sometimes cuts can't
be avoided regardless of the belt tightening that a department may do, but
this case does not seem to be one where an executive decision was made to
eliminate X amount of headcount. This list has provided countless posts of
industry aces taking massive pay cuts to put food on the table. It may be my
weakness to not have the killer instinct that Adrian has displayed, but
I'd rather offer any position I could as a Unix or security admin at a
lowered rate, than to take away someone's entire livelihood.
Bill Creighton CCNP
Senior System Engineer
Motorola
iDEN CNRC Packet Data / MPS
1301 E. Algonquin Road
Schaumburg, IL 60196
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: nrf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 12:23 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Hello (long response) [3:5788]
I stated this before on the other thread, but I'll state it again. While I
think that the way Adrian handled the situation was beyond the pale (and I
think everybody here on this newsgroup knows that I ain't no wallflower), I
have to say that I actually do agree somewhat with the gist of what he was
saying. Let's face it - R/S skills are simply not as demanded as they were
in the past, and if R/S people want to maintain their high salaries (or even
keep their job), they better develop different skills. IT has always been
an industry of flux, where skills that used to command high pay one day no
longer do so the next day. Anybody who expects to keep a job but who
can't/won't update their skills to whatever happens to be demanded by the
marketplace at the time is playing a dangerous game indeed.
But again, that's not so say that I condone Adrian's methods.
Jesus Velazquez wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
Bill, I agree. These CCIE's are obviously certified as internetworking
experts (R/S) not security or unix admins...therefore I find it unfair
for Adrian to fire them based on what he wished they should be skilled
in. My question to Adrian is did he ever provide them the opportunity
to become well rounded in unix / security as well. If not, then shame
on him and
that
displays poor leadership potential on his part. Perhaps he felt his
job could have been at risk if he is making more than any of the
ccie's he canned. I sure hope Adrian can perform the responsibilities
of the 4
ccie's.
Now that he dumped these ccie's I can imagine how big his christmas
bonus will be.
The more I read about layoffs the sicker I get. This field is becoming
more
cut throat then ever. As the cliche goes, what goes around, comes
around but with more velocity
unbelievable-
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Creighton Bill-BCREIGH1
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 5:03 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Hello (long response) [3:5788]
Agreed.
Help you need maybe with grammar to be speaking about no skills others
have.
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones - especially if, what
you
say
is true, you are in a managerial role. I find it hard to believe that
you would have such little respect for others and still be able to
successfully
lead others.
I have a recommendation for your personal and professional growth. If
you wish to progress to managerial or executive level positions, you
