Re: Personal Excellence Renders No Immunity To H1-B
It is the economy to be blamed rather than thing else. Raymond Thomas wrote: You are absolutely right, but I never placed anyone out on contract =) I know, I know, that's besides the point, but here is my point: You can't look at these guys bad personally. If you needed to survive and support your family, and there was no work in your country, wouldn't you go elsewhere for work? I doubt very much that these professionals come to the US just for the sole intentions of screwing you out of your jobs or to hinder your chances of getting another one. Blame the damn employers or companies that will use and abuse these guys and pay peanuts compared to what they would pay you. What messes you guys up is when they accept a lower base than what they are worth, but then again, beggars can't be choosy. Raymond Thomas Lewis Consultants International, Inc. 295 Northern Blvd Suite 302 Great Neck, NY 11021 (516)498-2300 ext. 103 (516)498-1749 fax (917)444-1334 pager Web: http://lewisconsultants.com http://lewisconsultants.com/ -Original Message- From: Starry Eyes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 7:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Personal Excellence Renders No Immunity To H1-B I'm sorry I have to wade into this. The Senator of my state, the Hon. Bob Graham (D), long may he govern us, sponsored a bill which died an ignomious death on the committee floor. It would have allowed for "Guest Workers" with a visa that would allow them to change employers without applying for a transfer of visa. Now, I'm a D@MN GOOD Network Engineer. I am close to the best in my market. I would like to get $60 hour contract for my services. The problem is that there are now over 125 H1-B network engineers IN MY MARKET. They are D@MN GOOD Network Engineers too. I've met them. I have a lot of respect for their abilities. Follow my reasoning closely, folks. To get $60 hour for my services, I most likely would have to go through an agency who would bill me out at, say $150 - $175 - don't deny it, Raymond. Now, these same agencies are offered fee-splitting deals by a well-known Indian agency at, say $35/hour - $45/hour. Heaven knows what the Indian engineers are taking home, but there are 4 bachelors in a one-bedroom apt. across the street from me. I also know of several married men whose families are back in India. Who are they gonna go with? I'm as good as they are, but I'm not willing to live like they live. If they weren't here, I could ask whatever I wanted for my services. The companies that could afford it would prosper. The others would have to go out of business. It is just simple Econ 101. When there is more of a commodity (and we ARE a commodity, at least until we get the CCIE and get published some), the price drops. If there's going to be globalization of markets, maybe we need globalization of worker solidarity. From: "Raymond Thomas" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: "Raymond Thomas" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Cisco Bug" [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: The H1-B visa program is a fraud. Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:49:27 +0100 Well said. Thank you very much for your input. Hope it opens up the hearts of the close minded ones =) Raymond Thomas Lewis Consultants International, Inc. 295 Northern Blvd Suite 302 Great Neck, NY 11021 (516)498-2300 ext. 103 (516)498-1749 fax (917)444-1334 pager Web: http://lewisconsultants.com http://lewisconsultants.com/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Cisco Bug Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 4:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: The H1-B visa program is a fraud. Hello Engineers, I would like to address a few issues regarding H1B visas as this became the hot topic for some frustrated people who could not qualify to get a job opening. I am amazed how people like here in this big educated list talk about such things, especially in the golden age of IT, where there is no boundary of country, caste, religion, race, color etc etc. We are talking big internet, and transit points, and gateways and routers, and global connectivity and reachability and balancing and faster access. These are true hypocrites who take advantage of the technology but when it comes to personal things they discriminate between x y. To end this talk, I would add an example. If you are given a option to buy a foreign product much more sophisticated, cheaper, durable, and having lot of advantages V/s selecting any local made brand of the same product which may or may not have the same features but it will be costlier, which one would you people personally go for. If you say local product, I will be sorry my friends we are using the best
RE: Personal Excellence Renders No Immunity To H1-B
You are absolutely right, but I never placed anyone out on contract =) I know, I know, that's besides the point, but here is my point: You can't look at these guys bad personally. If you needed to survive and support your family, and there was no work in your country, wouldn't you go elsewhere for work? I doubt very much that these professionals come to the US just for the sole intentions of screwing you out of your jobs or to hinder your chances of getting another one. Blame the damn employers or companies that will use and abuse these guys and pay peanuts compared to what they would pay you. What messes you guys up is when they accept a lower base than what they are worth, but then again, beggars can't be choosy. Raymond Thomas Lewis Consultants International, Inc. 295 Northern Blvd Suite 302 Great Neck, NY 11021 (516)498-2300 ext. 103 (516)498-1749 fax (917)444-1334 pager Web: http://lewisconsultants.com http://lewisconsultants.com/ -Original Message- From: Starry Eyes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 7:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Personal Excellence Renders No Immunity To H1-B I'm sorry I have to wade into this. The Senator of my state, the Hon. Bob Graham (D), long may he govern us, sponsored a bill which died an ignomious death on the committee floor. It would have allowed for "Guest Workers" with a visa that would allow them to change employers without applying for a transfer of visa. Now, I'm a D@MN GOOD Network Engineer. I am close to the best in my market. I would like to get $60 hour contract for my services. The problem is that there are now over 125 H1-B network engineers IN MY MARKET. They are D@MN GOOD Network Engineers too. I've met them. I have a lot of respect for their abilities. Follow my reasoning closely, folks. To get $60 hour for my services, I most likely would have to go through an agency who would bill me out at, say $150 - $175 - don't deny it, Raymond. Now, these same agencies are offered fee-splitting deals by a well-known Indian agency at, say $35/hour - $45/hour. Heaven knows what the Indian engineers are taking home, but there are 4 bachelors in a one-bedroom apt. across the street from me. I also know of several married men whose families are back in India. Who are they gonna go with? I'm as good as they are, but I'm not willing to live like they live. If they weren't here, I could ask whatever I wanted for my services. The companies that could afford it would prosper. The others would have to go out of business. It is just simple Econ 101. When there is more of a commodity (and we ARE a commodity, at least until we get the CCIE and get published some), the price drops. If there's going to be globalization of markets, maybe we need globalization of worker solidarity. From: "Raymond Thomas" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: "Raymond Thomas" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Cisco Bug" [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: The H1-B visa program is a fraud. Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:49:27 +0100 Well said. Thank you very much for your input. Hope it opens up the hearts of the close minded ones =) Raymond Thomas Lewis Consultants International, Inc. 295 Northern Blvd Suite 302 Great Neck, NY 11021 (516)498-2300 ext. 103 (516)498-1749 fax (917)444-1334 pager Web: http://lewisconsultants.com http://lewisconsultants.com/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Cisco Bug Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 4:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: The H1-B visa program is a fraud. Hello Engineers, I would like to address a few issues regarding H1B visas as this became the hot topic for some frustrated people who could not qualify to get a job opening. I am amazed how people like here in this big educated list talk about such things, especially in the golden age of IT, where there is no boundary of country, caste, religion, race, color etc etc. We are talking big internet, and transit points, and gateways and routers, and global connectivity and reachability and balancing and faster access. These are true hypocrites who take advantage of the technology but when it comes to personal things they discriminate between x y. To end this talk, I would add an example. If you are given a option to buy a foreign product much more sophisticated, cheaper, durable, and having lot of advantages V/s selecting any local made brand of the same product which may or may not have the same features but it will be costlier, which one would you people personally go for. If you say local product, I will be sorry my friends we are using the best type of US products all over the world because of blah blah reasons and if everybody thinks your way, then ??? you get what I mean, and I am sure in US also many different pro
Re: Personal Excellence Renders No Immunity To H1-B
I would like to get $60 hour contract for my services. I'd like to have supermodels feed me fruit every morning... I'm as good as they are, but I'm not willing to live like they live. If they weren't here, I could ask whatever I wanted for my services. Tough... It is just simple Econ 101. You said it... What do companies do when their markets get flooded? They change markets... What do they do when all markets get flooded? They change products! Diversify... Get Mobile... My Dad used to say when I was a kid "If you want the dollar, you gotta chase the dollar - it won't just come to you!" Dale [=`) _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
