RE: BGP peering question

[Dollard Morgan]

do we have anymore info on the why of this question. i asked a guy here at
UUNET france, and he was as perplexed as i was, and sees absolutely no
reason why any1 would want to do that. also one thing he told me is that
UUNET USA is getting stricter on their peering policy, meaning that they
would only like to peer with big isps from whom they gain by peering with.
this means that less and less peering is gonna take place unless ur a big
ISP. that being said, id really like to know the logic behind the question
orginally posted, but then again im starting to repeat myself.

> -Message d'origine-
> De:   Hallgren, Michael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Date: vendredi 12 mai 2000 10:38
> À:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Objet:    RE: BGP peering question
> 
> 
> 
> At 5:52 PM +0200 5/11/2000, Dollard Morgan wrote:
> >>right, i understand that just fine, and i know where ebgp >multihop is
> to
> be
> >>used. what i dont understand is WHY would u wa  nt to >cross over ur
> isp,
> >>plus whatever other transit as u'll have to go through to >hit another
> isp
> u
> >>do want to peer with, even though u might end up with an >ebgp multihop
> of
> 20
> >>or 30.
> >>explain that, since i dont see the point in it.
> >>example. i connect to uunet, and i want to go peer with >another big isp
> out
> >>there, so ill cross all the way to the other network to hit >by bgp
> peer.
> >>wheres the logic behind this kind of usage.
> 
> 
> >I don't know of any usage where you would BGP peer, in >either sense 
> >of peering, with another AS to which you don't have a direct 
> >connection.  I'm lost.
> 
> So am I. The times I've seen/used multihop - at least so far - has been
> setting up sessions with route servers, sharing load over multiple links,
> multicast using MBGP, and such. I believe it's already been noted that,
> ebgp-multihop's intended simply to permit peers to live on different
> subnets.
> 
> >  Who wants to peer across multiple >AS?  Do 
> >they have any rationale for doing so?
> 
> 
> Please, let me know.
> 
> 
> 
> mh
> >
> >
> 
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RE: BGP peering question

[Hallgren, Michael]

At 5:52 PM +0200 5/11/2000, Dollard Morgan wrote:
>>right, i understand that just fine, and i know where ebgp >multihop is to
be
>>used. what i dont understand is WHY would u want to >cross over ur
isp,
>>plus whatever other transit as u'll have to go through to >hit another isp
u
>>do want to peer with, even though u might end up with an >ebgp multihop of
20
>>or 30.
>>explain that, since i dont see the point in it.
>>example. i connect to uunet, and i want to go peer with >another big isp
out
>>there, so ill cross all the way to the other network to hit >by bgp peer.
>>wheres the logic behind this kind of usage.


>I don't know of any usage where you would BGP peer, in >either sense 
>of peering, with another AS to which you don't have a direct 
>connection.  I'm lost.

So am I. The times I've seen/used multihop - at least so far - has been
setting up sessions with route servers, sharing load over multiple links,
multicast using MBGP, and such. I believe it's already been noted that,
ebgp-multihop's intended simply to permit peers to live on different
subnets.

>  Who wants to peer across multiple >AS?  Do 
>they have any rationale for doing so?


Please, let me know.



mh
>
>

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RE: BGP peering question

[Brandon Peyton]

Hey guys,

No longer called MCI Worldcom

Its now just UUNET/Worldcom...

FYI

and no UUNET will not peer anymore.
yes all AOL's traffic is on UUNET's backbone

*shrug*
just in case you wanted to know :)



Brandon Peyton
Senior Network Engineer
Asia Pacific
UUNET


UUNET House
39 Herbert Street
St Leonards NSW 2065
tel +61 2 9434 5554
mob +61 4 0489 4900
fax +61 2 9438 3172
email [EMAIL PROTECTED]

UUNET, an WorldCom Company is a registered business name of
OzEmail Pty Limited ACN 066 387 157

The information contained in this email message may be confidential.  If you
are not the intended recipient any use, distribution, disclosure or copying
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please tell us by return email and delete it and any attachments from your
system.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Dan Sneddon
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 3:56 AM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: BGP peering question


Your friend is a bit confused about the usage and purpose of BGP. Generally
you only peer with your upstream providers, and only if you are multi-homed
with more than one ISP. Here's a URL that might help your friend understand
BGP better:
http://www.netaxs.com/~freedman/bgp.html

If you peer with your ISP and get full routes from them you will see all the
possible routes to AOL. You don't need to peer with AOL to get that
information. If you have multiple ISPs and BGP peer with each of them then
your traffic to AOL will travel over the link with the ISP who has the
shortest AS path to AOL. A good bet for AOL is MCI/UUNET or a provider with
a private upstream link to MCI/UUNET. Most of the AOL data transfer network
(AS 1668) runs over MCI backbone.

If your friend has only one upstream provider then BGP peering will do
nothing for him or her, since all the traffic will go to the same provider
anyway. Note that it is only useful to BGP peer with ISPs that you actually
have a physical connection with, and AOL does not sell private connections.

-Dan

> -Original Message-
> From: Dale Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 7:22 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: BGP peering question
>
>
> A friend of mine has the following problem:
>
> >I've been given the project of establishing peering connections with
> >other ISP's/carriers. The biggest problem I have is finding the
> >right dept to call or e-mail. Take AOL for example, 40% of our
> >traffic is destined for AOL, can't find a clue on how to contact
> >them about establishing a peering session via BGP. Is their a list
> >of companies willing to peer?
>
> Any clues?
>
> Thanks!
> Dale
> [=`)

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RE: BGP peering question

[Dan Sneddon]

Your friend is a bit confused about the usage and purpose of BGP. Generally
you only peer with your upstream providers, and only if you are multi-homed
with more than one ISP. Here's a URL that might help your friend understand
BGP better: 
http://www.netaxs.com/~freedman/bgp.html

If you peer with your ISP and get full routes from them you will see all the
possible routes to AOL. You don't need to peer with AOL to get that
information. If you have multiple ISPs and BGP peer with each of them then
your traffic to AOL will travel over the link with the ISP who has the
shortest AS path to AOL. A good bet for AOL is MCI/UUNET or a provider with
a private upstream link to MCI/UUNET. Most of the AOL data transfer network
(AS 1668) runs over MCI backbone.

If your friend has only one upstream provider then BGP peering will do
nothing for him or her, since all the traffic will go to the same provider
anyway. Note that it is only useful to BGP peer with ISPs that you actually
have a physical connection with, and AOL does not sell private connections.

-Dan

> -Original Message-
> From: Dale Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 7:22 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: BGP peering question
> 
> 
> A friend of mine has the following problem:
> 
> >I've been given the project of establishing peering connections with 
> >other ISP's/carriers. The biggest problem I have is finding the 
> >right dept to call or e-mail. Take AOL for example, 40% of our 
> >traffic is destined for AOL, can't find a clue on how to contact 
> >them about establishing a peering session via BGP. Is their a list 
> >of companies willing to peer?
> 
> Any clues?
> 
> Thanks!
> Dale
> [=`)

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RE: BGP peering question

[Howard C. Berkowitz]

At 5:52 PM +0200 5/11/2000, Dollard Morgan wrote:
>right, i understand that just fine, and i know where ebgp multihop is to be
>used. what i dont understand is WHY would u wa nt to cross over ur isp,
>plus whatever other transit as u'll have to go through to hit another isp u
>do want to peer with, even though u might end up with an ebgp multihop of 20
>or 30.
>explain that, since i dont see the point in it.
>example. i connect to uunet, and i want to go peer with another big isp out
>there, so ill cross all the way to the other network to hit by bgp peer.
>wheres the logic behind this kind of usage.


I don't know of any usage where you would BGP peer, in either sense 
of peering, with another AS to which you don't have a direct 
connection.  I'm lost.  Who wants to peer across multiple AS?  Do 
they have any rationale for doing so?

>
>  > -Message d'origine-
>  > De:Joe Szczepanski [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>  > Date:  jeudi 11 mai 2000 17:59
>  > À: Dollard Morgan; 'Dale Holmes'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > Objet: RE: BGP peering question
>  >
>  > Generally the multi-hop command is used when you have more then one
>  > connection between your router and the upstream router.  For example if
>  > you
>  > have 2 t's between your router and your isp's router, you would run
>  > multi-hop.  This allows you to balance traffic across those two t's to the
>  > next hop router.
>  >
>  > Joe
>  >
>  > > -Original Message-
>  > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
>  > > Dollard Morgan
>  > > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 10:10 AM
>  > > To: 'Dale Holmes'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > > Subject: RE: BGP peering question
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > ok, i dont think this is a valid question. when peering bgp sessions to
>  > an
>  > > external as, u add a command called bgp beighbor ebgp-multihop " for
>  > > example, which defines how far away ur peer is going to be. im
>  > > not sure how
>  > > or why ud want to peer a bgp session acroos multiple isps , or what the
>  > > reason for this would be. i dont think your going to get any1 to
>  > > peer a bgp
>  > > session with u unless ur directly connected to them, such as UUNET. ask
>  > if
>  > > anymore info
>  > >
>  > > > -Message d'origine-
>  > > > De:Dale Holmes [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>  > > > Date:  jeudi 11 mai 2000 16:22
>  > > > À: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > > > Objet: BGP peering question
>  > > >
>  > > > A friend of mine has the following problem:
>  > > >
>  > > > >I've been given the project of establishing peering connections with
>  > > > >other
>  > > > >ISP's/carriers. The biggest problem I have is finding the
>  > > >right dept to
>  > > > >call or e-mail. Take AOL for example, 40% of our >traffic is
>  > > destined for
>  > > >
>  > > > >AOL, can't find a clue on how to contact >them about establishing a
>  > > > peering
>  > > > >session via BGP. Is their a list >of companies willing to peer?
>  > > >
>  > > > Any clues?
>  > > >
>  > > > Thanks!
>  > > > Dale
>  > > > [=`)
>  > > >
>  > 
>  > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>  > http://www.hotmail.com
>  > > >
>  > > > ___
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>  > >
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>  > >
>
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RE: BGP peering question

[Hallgren, Michael]

>EXACTLY. so why would any1 go above lets say 3, 4 id say max >5 ebgp hops. 

In a multicast context, likely where the MBGP topology is a lot more sparse
than the unicast BGP one. At least AFAIK ;)


mh

> -Message d'origine-
> De:   Hallgren, Michael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Date: jeudi 11 mai 2000 18:00
> À:Dollard Morgan
> Cc:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Objet:    RE: BGP peering question
> 
> 
> >right, i know when to use ebgp multihop, what i was asking, >is actually,
> >hoiw far are u willing to take it. is it usefull to peer a >bgp session
> over
> >30 hops, because u dont want to peer with ur isp, but with >another one
> >instead. 
> 
> 
> OK. Was readin' with only one eye open ;). Concerning how far to take it,
> I
> would keep in mind that I want a reliable connection, and thus probably
> avoid going over multiple AS's, or at the very least think twice :)
> 
> 
> mh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -Message d'origine-
> > De: Hallgren, Michael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Date:   jeudi 11 mai 2000 17:42
> > À:  Dollard Morgan; 'Dale Holmes'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Objet:  RE: BGP peering question
> > 
> > One situation where you may use ebgp-multihop is when
> > sharing over some set of serials, where the Loopback's - peers - for the
> > session isn't directly connected.
> > 
> > mh
> > 
> > ok, i dont think this is a valid question. when peering bgp sessions to
> an
> > external as, u add a command called bgp beighbor ebgp-multihop " for
> > example, which defines how far away ur peer is going to be. im not sure
> > how
> > or why ud want to peer a bgp session acroos multiple isps , or what the
> > reason for this would be. i dont think your going to get any1 to peer a
> > bgp
> > session with u unless ur directly connected to them, such as UUNET. ask
> if
> > anymore info 
> > 
> > > -Message d'origine-
> > > De:   Dale Holmes [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Date: jeudi 11 mai 2000 16:22
> > > À:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Objet:BGP peering question
> > > 
> > > A friend of mine has the following problem:
> > > 
> > > >I've been given the project of establishing peering connections with
> > > >other 
> > > >ISP's/carriers. The biggest problem I have is finding the >right dept
> > to 
> > > >call or e-mail. Take AOL for example, 40% of our >traffic is destined
> > for
> > > 
> > > >AOL, can't find a clue on how to contact >them about establishing a
> > > peering 
> > > >session via BGP. Is their a list >of companies willing to peer?
> > > 
> > > Any clues?
> > > 
> > > Thanks!
> > > Dale
> > > [=`)
> > >
> 
> > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> http://www.hotmail.com
> > > 
> > > ___
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> > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com
> > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
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RE: BGP peering question

[Joe Szczepanski]

> 
> 
> I don't know of any usage where you would BGP peer, in either sense 
> of peering, with another AS to which you don't have a direct 
> connection.  I'm lost.  Who wants to peer across multiple AS?  Do 
> they have any rationale for doing so?


Thats what we are trying to figure out


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RE: BGP peering question

[Dollard Morgan]

right, i understand that just fine, and i know where ebgp multihop is to be
used. what i dont understand is WHY would u wa  nt to cross over ur isp,
plus whatever other transit as u'll have to go through to hit another isp u
do want to peer with, even though u might end up with an ebgp multihop of 20
or 30.
explain that, since i dont see the point in it.
example. i connect to uunet, and i want to go peer with another big isp out
there, so ill cross all the way to the other network to hit by bgp peer.
wheres the logic behind this kind of usage.

> -Message d'origine-
> De:   Joe Szczepanski [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Date: jeudi 11 mai 2000 17:59
> À:Dollard Morgan; 'Dale Holmes'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Objet:RE: BGP peering question
> 
> Generally the multi-hop command is used when you have more then one
> connection between your router and the upstream router.  For example if
> you
> have 2 t's between your router and your isp's router, you would run
> multi-hop.  This allows you to balance traffic across those two t's to the
> next hop router.
> 
> Joe
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > Dollard Morgan
> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 10:10 AM
> > To: 'Dale Holmes'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: BGP peering question
> >
> >
> > ok, i dont think this is a valid question. when peering bgp sessions to
> an
> > external as, u add a command called bgp beighbor ebgp-multihop " for
> > example, which defines how far away ur peer is going to be. im
> > not sure how
> > or why ud want to peer a bgp session acroos multiple isps , or what the
> > reason for this would be. i dont think your going to get any1 to
> > peer a bgp
> > session with u unless ur directly connected to them, such as UUNET. ask
> if
> > anymore info
> >
> > > -Message d'origine-
> > > De:   Dale Holmes [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Date: jeudi 11 mai 2000 16:22
> > > À:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Objet:BGP peering question
> > >
> > > A friend of mine has the following problem:
> > >
> > > >I've been given the project of establishing peering connections with
> > > >other
> > > >ISP's/carriers. The biggest problem I have is finding the
> > >right dept to
> > > >call or e-mail. Take AOL for example, 40% of our >traffic is
> > destined for
> > >
> > > >AOL, can't find a clue on how to contact >them about establishing a
> > > peering
> > > >session via BGP. Is their a list >of companies willing to peer?
> > >
> > > Any clues?
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > > Dale
> > > [=`)
> > >
> 
> > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> http://www.hotmail.com
> > >
> > > ___
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> >

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RE: BGP peering question

[Howard C. Berkowitz]

>ok, i dont think this is a valid question. when peering bgp sessions to an
>external as, u add a command called bgp beighbor ebgp-multihop " for
>example, which defines how far away ur peer is going to be. im not sure how
>or why ud want to peer a bgp session acroos multiple isps , or what the
>reason for this would be. i dont think your going to get any1 to peer a bgp
>session with u unless ur directly connected to them, such as UUNET. ask if
>anymore info


The application for ebgp-multihop is not to go across multiple ISPs. 
If you needed to do that, MPLS/BGP VPN is probably a better way to go.

ebgp-multihop is needed when the two endpoints of a BGP session are 
not on the same subnet.  The usual example is when you do the BGP 
peering between loopbacks, but have multiple T1s between the routers. 
The T1s are on  different subnets from the loopbacks.

>
>  > -Message d'origine-
>  > De:Dale Holmes [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>  > Date:  jeudi 11 mai 2000 16:22
>  > À: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > Objet: BGP peering question
>  >
>  > A friend of mine has the following problem:
>  >
>  > >I've been given the project of establishing peering connections with
>  > >other
>  > >ISP's/carriers. The biggest problem I have is finding the >right dept to
>  > >call or e-mail. Take AOL for example, 40% of our >traffic is destined for
>  >
>  > >AOL, can't find a clue on how to contact >them about establishing a
>  > peering
>  > >session via BGP. Is their a list >of companies willing to peer?
>  >
>  > Any clues?
>  >
>  > Thanks!
>  > Dale
>  > [=`)
>  > 
>  > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>  >
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>
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Re: BGP peering question - more info

[Dale Holmes]

I love to stir up the pot...

I should have mentioned - He works for an ISP, not an enterprise. He is new 
there, and I think that he is unsure how to initiate these relationships 
with other ISP's...

Dale
[=`)


>From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Dale Holmes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: BGP peering question
>Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 12:01:18 -0400
>
>>A friend of mine has the following problem:
>>
>>>I've been given the project of establishing peering connections
>>>with >other ISP's/carriers. The biggest problem I have is finding
>>>the >right dept to call or e-mail. Take AOL for example, 40% of
>>>our >traffic is destined for AOL, can't find a clue on how to
>>>contact >them about establishing a peering session via BGP. Is
>>>their a list >of companies willing to peer?
>>
>>Any clues?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>Dale
>>[=`)
>
>
>There are two meanings, in BGP operations, of "peer." One is simply
>establishing the BGP connection.  The second is an economic one, in
>which the two parties agree they have comparable numbers of
>customers, and it is in their mutual interest to exchange their
>customer routes -- NOT full Internet routes.
>
>It's getting harder and harder to peer with national providers unless
>you are also a national or substantial regional provider.  At a
>minimum, most bilateral peering arrangements expect both sides to
>have 24/7/365 NOCs, a national or regional backbone of at least DS3
>and preferably faster, and a substantial customer base.  There are no
>enterprises at the major exchange points, although some of the large
>hosting centers are almost exchange points in their own rights.
>
>If you don't qualify for peering, you need to buy transit from one or
>more providers.
>
>One exception is the growth of local exchange points, which I happen
>to think are very beneficial.  The first generally known local
>exchange started in Tucson, AZ.  In a local exchange, local providers
>and significant enterprises share either a small switch or a
>distributed layer 2 subnet, and have a small router or route server
>that does peering on behalf of the local organizations.  By using a
>local exchange, you can actually go across town rather than being
>backhauled across half a continent to go between major provides.
>


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Re: BGP peering question

[Kent Hundley]

Surf to  and search the "whois"
database for the domains in question.  It should list the administrative
and technical contacts.  The info may be out of date but it is the best
place to start.

HTH,
Kent

Dale Holmes wrote:
> 
> A friend of mine has the following problem:
> 
> >I've been given the project of establishing peering connections with >other
> >ISP's/carriers. The biggest problem I have is finding the >right dept to
> >call or e-mail. Take AOL for example, 40% of our >traffic is destined for
> >AOL, can't find a clue on how to contact >them about establishing a peering
> >session via BGP. Is their a list >of companies willing to peer?
> 
> Any clues?
> 
> Thanks!
> Dale
> [=`)
> 
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
> 
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-- 
##
Kent HundleyLucent Networkcare
CISSP, CCSE Sr. Network Consultant
##


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RE: BGP peering question

[Hallgren, Michael]

One situation where you may use ebgp-multihop is when
sharing over some set of serials, where the Loopback's - peers - for the
session isn't directly connected.

mh

ok, i dont think this is a valid question. when peering bgp sessions to an
external as, u add a command called bgp beighbor ebgp-multihop " for
example, which defines how far away ur peer is going to be. im not sure how
or why ud want to peer a bgp session acroos multiple isps , or what the
reason for this would be. i dont think your going to get any1 to peer a bgp
session with u unless ur directly connected to them, such as UUNET. ask if
anymore info 

> -Message d'origine-
> De:   Dale Holmes [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Date: jeudi 11 mai 2000 16:22
> À:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Objet:BGP peering question
> 
> A friend of mine has the following problem:
> 
> >I've been given the project of establishing peering connections with
> >other 
> >ISP's/carriers. The biggest problem I have is finding the >right dept to 
> >call or e-mail. Take AOL for example, 40% of our >traffic is destined for
> 
> >AOL, can't find a clue on how to contact >them about establishing a
> peering 
> >session via BGP. Is their a list >of companies willing to peer?
> 
> Any clues?
> 
> Thanks!
> Dale
> [=`)
> 
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
> 
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RE: BGP peering question

[Hallgren, Michael]

>right, i know when to use ebgp multihop, what i was asking, >is actually,
>hoiw far are u willing to take it. is it usefull to peer a >bgp session
over
>30 hops, because u dont want to peer with ur isp, but with >another one
>instead. 


OK. Was readin' with only one eye open ;). Concerning how far to take it, I
would keep in mind that I want a reliable connection, and thus probably
avoid going over multiple AS's, or at the very least think twice :)


mh




> -Message d'origine-
> De:   Hallgren, Michael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Date: jeudi 11 mai 2000 17:42
> À:Dollard Morgan; 'Dale Holmes'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Objet:RE: BGP peering question
> 
> One situation where you may use ebgp-multihop is when
> sharing over some set of serials, where the Loopback's - peers - for the
> session isn't directly connected.
> 
> mh
> 
> ok, i dont think this is a valid question. when peering bgp sessions to an
> external as, u add a command called bgp beighbor ebgp-multihop " for
> example, which defines how far away ur peer is going to be. im not sure
> how
> or why ud want to peer a bgp session acroos multiple isps , or what the
> reason for this would be. i dont think your going to get any1 to peer a
> bgp
> session with u unless ur directly connected to them, such as UUNET. ask if
> anymore info 
> 
> > -Message d'origine-
> > De: Dale Holmes [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Date:   jeudi 11 mai 2000 16:22
> > À:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Objet:  BGP peering question
> > 
> > A friend of mine has the following problem:
> > 
> > >I've been given the project of establishing peering connections with
> > >other 
> > >ISP's/carriers. The biggest problem I have is finding the >right dept
> to 
> > >call or e-mail. Take AOL for example, 40% of our >traffic is destined
> for
> > 
> > >AOL, can't find a clue on how to contact >them about establishing a
> > peering 
> > >session via BGP. Is their a list >of companies willing to peer?
> > 
> > Any clues?
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > Dale
> > [=`)
> > 
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
> > 
> > ___
> > UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html
> > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com
> > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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RE: BGP peering question

[Dollard Morgan]

EXACTLY. so why would any1 go above lets say 3, 4 id say max 5 ebgp hops. 

> -Message d'origine-
> De:   Hallgren, Michael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Date: jeudi 11 mai 2000 18:00
> À:Dollard Morgan
> Cc:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Objet:    RE: BGP peering question
> 
> 
> >right, i know when to use ebgp multihop, what i was asking, >is actually,
> >hoiw far are u willing to take it. is it usefull to peer a >bgp session
> over
> >30 hops, because u dont want to peer with ur isp, but with >another one
> >instead. 
> 
> 
> OK. Was readin' with only one eye open ;). Concerning how far to take it,
> I
> would keep in mind that I want a reliable connection, and thus probably
> avoid going over multiple AS's, or at the very least think twice :)
> 
> 
> mh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -Message d'origine-
> > De: Hallgren, Michael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Date:   jeudi 11 mai 2000 17:42
> > À:  Dollard Morgan; 'Dale Holmes'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Objet:  RE: BGP peering question
> > 
> > One situation where you may use ebgp-multihop is when
> > sharing over some set of serials, where the Loopback's - peers - for the
> > session isn't directly connected.
> > 
> > mh
> > 
> > ok, i dont think this is a valid question. when peering bgp sessions to
> an
> > external as, u add a command called bgp beighbor ebgp-multihop " for
> > example, which defines how far away ur peer is going to be. im not sure
> > how
> > or why ud want to peer a bgp session acroos multiple isps , or what the
> > reason for this would be. i dont think your going to get any1 to peer a
> > bgp
> > session with u unless ur directly connected to them, such as UUNET. ask
> if
> > anymore info 
> > 
> > > -Message d'origine-
> > > De:   Dale Holmes [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Date: jeudi 11 mai 2000 16:22
> > > À:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Objet:BGP peering question
> > > 
> > > A friend of mine has the following problem:
> > > 
> > > >I've been given the project of establishing peering connections with
> > > >other 
> > > >ISP's/carriers. The biggest problem I have is finding the >right dept
> > to 
> > > >call or e-mail. Take AOL for example, 40% of our >traffic is destined
> > for
> > > 
> > > >AOL, can't find a clue on how to contact >them about establishing a
> > > peering 
> > > >session via BGP. Is their a list >of companies willing to peer?
> > > 
> > > Any clues?
> > > 
> > > Thanks!
> > > Dale
> > > [=`)
> > >
> 
> > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> http://www.hotmail.com
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html
> > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com
> > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > ___
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> > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: BGP peering question

[Howard C. Berkowitz]

>A friend of mine has the following problem:
>
>>I've been given the project of establishing peering connections 
>>with >other ISP's/carriers. The biggest problem I have is finding 
>>the >right dept to call or e-mail. Take AOL for example, 40% of 
>>our >traffic is destined for AOL, can't find a clue on how to 
>>contact >them about establishing a peering session via BGP. Is 
>>their a list >of companies willing to peer?
>
>Any clues?
>
>Thanks!
>Dale
>[=`)


There are two meanings, in BGP operations, of "peer." One is simply 
establishing the BGP connection.  The second is an economic one, in 
which the two parties agree they have comparable numbers of 
customers, and it is in their mutual interest to exchange their 
customer routes -- NOT full Internet routes.

It's getting harder and harder to peer with national providers unless 
you are also a national or substantial regional provider.  At a 
minimum, most bilateral peering arrangements expect both sides to 
have 24/7/365 NOCs, a national or regional backbone of at least DS3 
and preferably faster, and a substantial customer base.  There are no 
enterprises at the major exchange points, although some of the large 
hosting centers are almost exchange points in their own rights.

If you don't qualify for peering, you need to buy transit from one or 
more providers.

One exception is the growth of local exchange points, which I happen 
to think are very beneficial.  The first generally known local 
exchange started in Tucson, AZ.  In a local exchange, local providers 
and significant enterprises share either a small switch or a 
distributed layer 2 subnet, and have a small router or route server 
that does peering on behalf of the local organizations.  By using a 
local exchange, you can actually go across town rather than being 
backhauled across half a continent to go between major provides.

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RE: BGP peering question

[Joe Szczepanski]

Generally the multi-hop command is used when you have more then one
connection between your router and the upstream router.  For example if you
have 2 t's between your router and your isp's router, you would run
multi-hop.  This allows you to balance traffic across those two t's to the
next hop router.

Joe

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Dollard Morgan
> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 10:10 AM
> To: 'Dale Holmes'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: BGP peering question
>
>
> ok, i dont think this is a valid question. when peering bgp sessions to an
> external as, u add a command called bgp beighbor ebgp-multihop " for
> example, which defines how far away ur peer is going to be. im
> not sure how
> or why ud want to peer a bgp session acroos multiple isps , or what the
> reason for this would be. i dont think your going to get any1 to
> peer a bgp
> session with u unless ur directly connected to them, such as UUNET. ask if
> anymore info
>
> > -Message d'origine-
> > De: Dale Holmes [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Date:   jeudi 11 mai 2000 16:22
> > À:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Objet:  BGP peering question
> >
> > A friend of mine has the following problem:
> >
> > >I've been given the project of establishing peering connections with
> > >other
> > >ISP's/carriers. The biggest problem I have is finding the
> >right dept to
> > >call or e-mail. Take AOL for example, 40% of our >traffic is
> destined for
> >
> > >AOL, can't find a clue on how to contact >them about establishing a
> > peering
> > >session via BGP. Is their a list >of companies willing to peer?
> >
> > Any clues?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Dale
> > [=`)
> > 
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> > ___
> > UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html
> > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com
> > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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RE: BGP peering question

[Joe Szczepanski]

Dale -
AOL is a different Beast.  Im not sure where you would call within their
company.  I do know that they have collapsed most, if not all, of their
network onto UUNET's network.  If you are looking for a way to get closer to
AOL, going through UUNET is probably the way to go.

Joe

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Dale Holmes
> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 9:22 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: BGP peering question
>
>
> A friend of mine has the following problem:
>
> >I've been given the project of establishing peering connections
> with >other
> >ISP's/carriers. The biggest problem I have is finding the >right dept to
> >call or e-mail. Take AOL for example, 40% of our >traffic is
> destined for
> >AOL, can't find a clue on how to contact >them about
> establishing a peering
> >session via BGP. Is their a list >of companies willing to peer?
>
> Any clues?
>
> Thanks!
> Dale
> [=`)
> 
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
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RE: BGP peering question

[Dollard Morgan]

ok, i dont think this is a valid question. when peering bgp sessions to an
external as, u add a command called bgp beighbor ebgp-multihop " for
example, which defines how far away ur peer is going to be. im not sure how
or why ud want to peer a bgp session acroos multiple isps , or what the
reason for this would be. i dont think your going to get any1 to peer a bgp
session with u unless ur directly connected to them, such as UUNET. ask if
anymore info 

> -Message d'origine-
> De:   Dale Holmes [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Date: jeudi 11 mai 2000 16:22
> À:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Objet:BGP peering question
> 
> A friend of mine has the following problem:
> 
> >I've been given the project of establishing peering connections with
> >other 
> >ISP's/carriers. The biggest problem I have is finding the >right dept to 
> >call or e-mail. Take AOL for example, 40% of our >traffic is destined for
> 
> >AOL, can't find a clue on how to contact >them about establishing a
> peering 
> >session via BGP. Is their a list >of companies willing to peer?
> 
> Any clues?
> 
> Thanks!
> Dale
> [=`)
> 
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
> 
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