RE: What is our Quest? [7:29085]
Howard, I'm sure that most, if not all, of the participants on this list will be very interested in this Quest Project, and I for one would definitely invest in each layer package that will be offered. Like the saying goes, you get what you pay for. I doubt if anyone will question the worth of such offerings given your reputation and knowledge. But the icing on the cake i think is to have an author with a healthy dose of humor such as the Monty thread earlier. Looking forward to the releases.MHO. Respectfully, Elmer P.S. Please clarify if this will be separate from the Certificationzone offerings. -Original Message- From: Howard C. Berkowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 10:58 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: What is our Quest? [7:29085] [If the subject line is ambiguous, please consult your Monty Python.] DISCLAIMER: I am involved in several commercial efforts for paper scenarios and virtual racks. I think the issues raised here, however, are of value to the community. --- Certification (and network learning that is not strictly certification related) involve scenarios for practice. It's my belief, however, that not all scenarios are the same. I'm not referring here to their quality, but to my belief that there are several types of scenarios that help in different aspects of the learning process. I'd really like feedback from the community if this thinking makes sense. 1. Technology familiarization scenarios 2. Complex problem recognition troubleshooting tests 3. Specific exam preparation (e.g., CCIE lab time management) 4. Non-certification (e.g., practice for real-world multihoming without CCIE restrictions, server interactions, etc.) If you were obtaining scenarios over a period of time, what would be your priorities? Type 1 -- 1a) This can reasonably begin with a preconfigured 1-3 router CCNA level system, that just allows CLI practice and the use of show/debug commands. 1b) The next level can be anywhere from CCNA to CCIE level, but focusing on a single protocol/technology. Other technologies are used only to support the primary objective. For example, my upcoming CertZone X.25 scenario starts by establishing OSPF routing (configuration given) over a serial line with HDLC encapsulation, then walking the student through the issues in converting to LAP-B and X.25 encapsulation. A basic such scenario gives the objectives and possibly some criteria for successful configuration, but doesn't give step-by-step guidance, illustrate common errors, and include troubleshooting. 1c) A more structured presentation, typically introducing common errors and showing how they are discovered and corrected on the way to a correct solution. 1d) Compare-and-contrast multipart scenarios, such as an OSPF scenario that explores several different aspects of partitioning and virtual links (e.g., connecting OSPF Area 0.0.0.0 across a non-OSPF domain, fixing an OSPF partition with a virtual link through a nonzero area, then examining the other application of virtual links: connecting noncontiguous areas to the backbone) Type 2 -- This is much more like an actual Cisco test experience, but giving the flavor of mentoring rather than time pressure. For example, you might be given an address plan, and told to implement OSPF in part of the network and RIP in another. You'd first get the individual protocols working, perhaps being guided through some common errors and how to spot them. Next, you'd set up redistribution, again with advice on typical problems. Once you have the redistributed routing working, you'd systematically add other features (e.g., DLSW+, performance management), again with guidance at each step. Type 3 -- Tests here are closer to the published descriptions and concerns of the CCIE lab, and include features such as a visible clock, and the option to choose to get a working configuration for some sub-part, losing the points but being able to go to the next part. In Pythonesque terms, Type 3 scenarios teach you to deal with the troll, but with the issue being the clock rather than the velocity of the sparrow. Type 4 -- My main focus here has been exterior routing for both multihomed enterprises and ISPs, but reflecting best current practice rather than some of the artificialities of the CCIE lab (e.g., encouraging rather than forbidding appropriate use of static and default routes). The first is Cisco CCIE certification practice, both practice for the written and the lab exam. The second is to prepare for Cisco specializations involving technologies such as voice and security. The third is basic familiarization for the CCIE. We can support training organizations, resellers, and enterprises in staff training aimed at any of these objectives. In addition, we are here to help in quests not directly
Re: What is our Quest? [7:29085]
Apologies. The last couple of paragraphs were accidentally included from an internal document I was editing. This is not an attempt to advertise. Anyway, they probably don't make any sense in this context. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=29101t=29085 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What is our Quest? [7:29085]
[snip] In Pythonesque terms, Type 3 scenarios teach you to deal with the troll, but with the issue being the clock rather than the velocity of the sparrow. [snip] Wait for it... African or European? Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=29109t=29085 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What is our Quest? [7:29085]
12/13/2001 12:34pm Thursday Howard C. Berkowitz wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... [If the subject line is ambiguous, please consult your Monty Python.] DISCLAIMER: I am involved in several commercial efforts for paper scenarios and virtual racks. I think the issues raised here, however, are of value to the community. --- Certification (and network learning that is not strictly certification related) involve scenarios for practice. It's my belief, however, that not all scenarios are the same. I'm not referring here to their quality, but to my belief that there are several types of scenarios that help in different aspects of the learning process. I'd really like feedback from the community if this thinking makes sense. 1. Technology familiarization scenarios 2. Complex problem recognition troubleshooting tests 3. Specific exam preparation (e.g., CCIE lab time management) 4. Non-certification (e.g., practice for real-world multihoming without CCIE restrictions, server interactions, etc.) If you were obtaining scenarios over a period of time, what would be your priorities? Type 1 -- 1a) This can reasonably begin with a preconfigured 1-3 router CCNA level system, that just allows CLI practice and the use of show/debug commands. 1b) The next level can be anywhere from CCNA to CCIE level, but focusing on a single protocol/technology. Other technologies are used only to support the primary objective. For example, my upcoming CertZone X.25 scenario starts by establishing OSPF routing (configuration given) over a serial line with HDLC encapsulation, then walking the student through the issues in converting to LAP-B and X.25 encapsulation. A basic such scenario gives the objectives and possibly some criteria for successful configuration, but doesn't give step-by-step guidance, illustrate common errors, and include troubleshooting. 1c) A more structured presentation, typically introducing common errors and showing how they are discovered and corrected on the way to a correct solution. 1d) Compare-and-contrast multipart scenarios, such as an OSPF scenario that explores several different aspects of partitioning and virtual links (e.g., connecting OSPF Area 0.0.0.0 across a non-OSPF domain, fixing an OSPF partition with a virtual link through a nonzero area, then examining the other application of virtual links: connecting noncontiguous areas to the backbone) Type 2 -- This is much more like an actual Cisco test experience, but giving the flavor of mentoring rather than time pressure. For example, you might be given an address plan, and told to implement OSPF in part of the network and RIP in another. You'd first get the individual protocols working, perhaps being guided through some common errors and how to spot them. Next, you'd set up redistribution, again with advice on typical problems. Once you have the redistributed routing working, you'd systematically add other features (e.g., DLSW+, performance management), again with guidance at each step. Type 3 -- Tests here are closer to the published descriptions and concerns of the CCIE lab, and include features such as a visible clock, and the option to choose to get a working configuration for some sub-part, losing the points but being able to go to the next part. In Pythonesque terms, Type 3 scenarios teach you to deal with the troll, but with the issue being the clock rather than the velocity of the sparrow. Type 4 -- My main focus here has been exterior routing for both multihomed enterprises and ISPs, but reflecting best current practice rather than some of the artificialities of the CCIE lab (e.g., encouraging rather than forbidding appropriate use of static and default routes). The first is Cisco CCIE certification practice, both practice for the written and the lab exam. The second is to prepare for Cisco specializations involving technologies such as voice and security. The third is basic familiarization for the CCIE. We can support training organizations, resellers, and enterprises in staff training aimed at any of these objectives. In addition, we are here to help in quests not directly associated with certification, such as advanced technology training (e.g., carrier-level BGP and MPS). Other related quests are familiarize enterprises with their planned multihomed and VPN configurations, and do final checkout in a controlled environment. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=29110t=29085 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What is our Quest? [7:29085]
Mentor did something very similar with their vLab offerings. This sounds like a recreation/alternative to those labs, which in my humble opinion were very good from 1) an accessability perspective (globally available and accessible) 2) a learning perspective (taught the basic principle through configuration 3) a documentation perspective (the proposed solutions were usually correct because they'd been checked) 4) a challenge perspective (if one tried to do the configurations without the solution, there were definitely issues that needed to be addressed) Although they were more training centric versus certification-centric, labs were categorized by skill level (beginner=CCNA, intermediate=CCNP/early CCIE, advanced/expert) The only thing restrictive (and really not that restrictive all things considered) was the relatively high cost per session (min $40 for a 3 router pod for 60-90 minutes of virtual lab time). $40, and one thin mint, btw. More when I have a moment to address each point individually -e- I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK... - Original Message - From: Howard C. Berkowitz To: Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 7:58 AM Subject: What is our Quest? [7:29085] [If the subject line is ambiguous, please consult your Monty Python.] DISCLAIMER: I am involved in several commercial efforts for paper scenarios and virtual racks. I think the issues raised here, however, are of value to the community. --- Certification (and network learning that is not strictly certification related) involve scenarios for practice. It's my belief, however, that not all scenarios are the same. I'm not referring here to their quality, but to my belief that there are several types of scenarios that help in different aspects of the learning process. I'd really like feedback from the community if this thinking makes sense. 1. Technology familiarization scenarios 2. Complex problem recognition troubleshooting tests 3. Specific exam preparation (e.g., CCIE lab time management) 4. Non-certification (e.g., practice for real-world multihoming without CCIE restrictions, server interactions, etc.) If you were obtaining scenarios over a period of time, what would be your priorities? Type 1 -- 1a) This can reasonably begin with a preconfigured 1-3 router CCNA level system, that just allows CLI practice and the use of show/debug commands. 1b) The next level can be anywhere from CCNA to CCIE level, but focusing on a single protocol/technology. Other technologies are used only to support the primary objective. For example, my upcoming CertZone X.25 scenario starts by establishing OSPF routing (configuration given) over a serial line with HDLC encapsulation, then walking the student through the issues in converting to LAP-B and X.25 encapsulation. A basic such scenario gives the objectives and possibly some criteria for successful configuration, but doesn't give step-by-step guidance, illustrate common errors, and include troubleshooting. 1c) A more structured presentation, typically introducing common errors and showing how they are discovered and corrected on the way to a correct solution. 1d) Compare-and-contrast multipart scenarios, such as an OSPF scenario that explores several different aspects of partitioning and virtual links (e.g., connecting OSPF Area 0.0.0.0 across a non-OSPF domain, fixing an OSPF partition with a virtual link through a nonzero area, then examining the other application of virtual links: connecting noncontiguous areas to the backbone) Type 2 -- This is much more like an actual Cisco test experience, but giving the flavor of mentoring rather than time pressure. For example, you might be given an address plan, and told to implement OSPF in part of the network and RIP in another. You'd first get the individual protocols working, perhaps being guided through some common errors and how to spot them. Next, you'd set up redistribution, again with advice on typical problems. Once you have the redistributed routing working, you'd systematically add other features (e.g., DLSW+, performance management), again with guidance at each step. Type 3 -- Tests here are closer to the published descriptions and concerns of the CCIE lab, and include features such as a visible clock, and the option to choose to get a working configuration for some sub-part, losing the points but being able to go to the next part. In Pythonesque terms, Type 3 scenarios teach you to deal with the troll, but with the issue being the clock rather than the velocity of the sparrow. Type 4 -- My main focus here has been exterior routing for both multihomed enterprises and ISPs, but reflecting best current practice rather than some of the artificialities of the CCIE lab (e.g., encouraging rather than forbidding appropriate use of static and
Re: What is our Quest? [7:29085]
I don't know why that message appeared to come from both Howard and Me... Mail client snafu... I doubt I could duplicate it. - Original Message - From: W. Alan Robertson ; To: Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:10 PM Subject: Re: What is our Quest? [7:29085] [snip] In Pythonesque terms, Type 3 scenarios teach you to deal with the troll, but with the issue being the clock rather than the velocity of the sparrow. [snip] Wait for it... African or European? [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=29128t=29085 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What is our Quest? [7:29085]
Nee! Nee! I don't know why that message appeared to come from both Howard and Me... Mail client snafu... I doubt I could duplicate it. - Original Message - From: W. Alan Robertson ; To: Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:10 PM Subject: Re: What is our Quest? [7:29085] [snip] In Pythonesque terms, Type 3 scenarios teach you to deal with the troll, but with the issue being the clock rather than the velocity of the sparrow. [snip] Wait for it... African or European? [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=29143t=29085 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
