Re: [c-nsp] Unknown unicast only occuring when a host is under attack...

2011-03-26 Thread Jeroen van Ingen



  Assuming the DoS attack is routed traffic (since it's in netflow) it
  won't cause overflows in L2 forwarding table CAM.

Unless there's a layer2 device downstream from the router.
   
Not even then. Layer 2 source/dest addresses are rewritten on every 
router hop. All traffic going through a router will have that router's 
MAC address as L2 source. So even if you have 400,000 packets coming 
through a router, each packet may have a different source IP but all 
will have the same source MAC.


No matter how many Layer 2 devices are downstream: they won't alter the 
packets, won't look at the Layer 3 source/dest and will only look at the 
L2 source/dest (which are, in this case, router MAC as source and host 
under attack MAC as destination).


Have a look with a packet sniffer (eg Wireshark) if you don't believe me :)

Regards,
Jeroen van Ingen

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Re: [c-nsp] Unknown unicast only occuring when a host is under attack...

2011-03-26 Thread Dobbins, Roland

On Mar 25, 2011, at 2:11 AM, Drew Weaver wrote:

 Basically what is happening is a host in a VLAN is getting flooded with http 
 requests and when this happens the http requests are being unicast to all 
 ports in this VLAN.

How was this diagnosed?

Are you sure that the /32 of the individual host is all that's being attacked, 
or are the attackers perhaps going after more than one host on the same 
VLAN/subnet?

Are directed broadcasts disabled?

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[c-nsp] 6500/BGP/full route tables [even more] confusing...

2011-03-26 Thread Jeff Kell
This topic seems to come up periodically... and I thought I had it
figured out... but apparently not.  So I'm seeking some real-world
answers and opinions on my particular combination/options.

I had a 6509/Sup2 (clearly can't do full tables) for some time, using
various route-maps and filtering tricks to keep the IPv4 routes under
128K (which seems to be the magic number with uRPF enabled).  If that is
exceeded, it generates TCAM overflow errors and essentially the 6500 is
bricked relative to passing traffic.  Under 128K and it's fine.

I intended to upgrade this to something suitable for full routing
tables, and went for a Sup720/PFC3CXL.  A million routes, right?

Initial replacement resulted in the WS-X6516-GBIC / DFC blade being
refused and powered down.  OK, incompatibilty issue, but you can RMA a
suitable replacement. 

Received another WS-X6516-GBIC but with a DFC3A.  Powers up, but
switches everything to PFC3A mode:

 Router#show platform hardware capacity system
 System Resources
   PFC operating mode: PFC3A
   Supervisor redundancy mode: administratively sso, operationally sso
   Switching resources: Module   Part number   Series 
 CEF mode
3WS-X6516-GBIC
 CEF256  dCEF
5VS-S720-10G  
 supervisor   CEF

which means 192K unicast routes:

 *L3 Forwarding Resources
  FIB TCAM usage: Total   
 Used   %Used
   72 bits (IPv4, MPLS, EoM) 196608 
 25  1%
  144 bits (IP mcast, IPv6)   32768  
 7  1%*

TAC says If the routes are more than 192K, part of the unicast routes
will NOT be in the hardware and the traffic using those routes will be
punted to RP (Route Processor). This will result in high CPU.

OK, how much traffic would it take to choke a VS-S720-10G with RP
switching?   I'm not looking at pushing terabits here...

Official TAC recommendation is to get a DFC3CXL for the blade (do I
really want a $15K upgrade for an old 6516-GB blade?), or get a CFC
blade (I do have a WS-X6724-SFP / WS-F6700-CFC blade I could reluctantly
pull out of a core switch with some rearrangement), or get another
6724/CFC combination (interestingly enough, also $15K list).

Or I'm tempted to hang a 3750E off the Sup's 10G port and use it for gig
and to heck with the blade :)

Can't seem to get a straight answer relative to the RP switching
penalty here (an old Sup2 is handling the current traffic).

Thanks,

Jeff
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Re: [c-nsp] 6500/BGP/full route tables [even more] confusing...

2011-03-26 Thread Jon Lewis

On Sat, 26 Mar 2011, Jeff Kell wrote:


I had a 6509/Sup2 (clearly can't do full tables) for some time, using
various route-maps and filtering tricks to keep the IPv4 routes under
128K (which seems to be the magic number with uRPF enabled).  If that is
exceeded, it generates TCAM overflow errors and essentially the 6500 is
bricked relative to passing traffic.  Under 128K and it's fine.

I intended to upgrade this to something suitable for full routing
tables, and went for a Sup720/PFC3CXL.  A million routes, right?


Not really.  The million routes thing is highly misleading.


Received another WS-X6516-GBIC but with a DFC3A.  Powers up, but
switches everything to PFC3A mode:


If you're not doing that much traffic, is removing the DFC from the 
WS-X6516-GBIC an option?


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Re: [c-nsp] 6500/BGP/full route tables [even more] confusing...

2011-03-26 Thread Jeff Kell
On 3/26/2011 2:32 PM, Jon Lewis wrote:
 On Sat, 26 Mar 2011, Jeff Kell wrote:
 I intended to upgrade this to something suitable for full routing
 tables, and went for a Sup720/PFC3CXL.  A million routes, right?

 Not really.  The million routes thing is highly misleading.

It at least depends on a whole lot of things.  I'll settle for half. 
Just not 192K.

 Received another WS-X6516-GBIC but with a DFC3A.  Powers up, but
 switches everything to PFC3A mode [192K routes]:

 If you're not doing that much traffic, is removing the DFC from the
 WS-X6516-GBIC an option?

I don't know, that's why I'm asking, but if that's a viable option, will
certainly give it a try.

Jeff
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Re: [c-nsp] 6500/BGP/full route tables [even more] confusing...

2011-03-26 Thread Andriy Bilous
As far as I'm aware there is no DFC in 6516, it's a legacy card with
a single 8Gb (duplex) connection to the fabric. Your output actually
confirms that, saying CEF256. Are there any other modules in the
chassis?

On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 8:05 PM, Jeff Kell jeff-k...@utc.edu wrote:
 On 3/26/2011 2:32 PM, Jon Lewis wrote:
 On Sat, 26 Mar 2011, Jeff Kell wrote:
 I intended to upgrade this to something suitable for full routing
 tables, and went for a Sup720/PFC3CXL.  A million routes, right?

 Not really.  The million routes thing is highly misleading.

 It at least depends on a whole lot of things.  I'll settle for half.
 Just not 192K.

 Received another WS-X6516-GBIC but with a DFC3A.  Powers up, but
 switches everything to PFC3A mode [192K routes]:

 If you're not doing that much traffic, is removing the DFC from the
 WS-X6516-GBIC an option?

 I don't know, that's why I'm asking, but if that's a viable option, will
 certainly give it a try.

 Jeff
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Re: [c-nsp] 6500/BGP/full route tables [even more] confusing...

2011-03-26 Thread Gert Doering
Hi,

On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 03:05:13PM -0400, Jeff Kell wrote:
  If you're not doing that much traffic, is removing the DFC from the
  WS-X6516-GBIC an option?
 
 I don't know, that's why I'm asking, but if that's a viable option, will
 certainly give it a try.

Well, it will fall back to central lookup on the Sup720, which is (if I
remember right) only a problem if the shared bus is full or your traffic
levels are really high (more than 15Mpps) - but if you only have 67xx and 
65xx cards in the system, the shared bus is only used for lookups and has 
plenty of capacity for that.

(Saku Ytti will correct me if I'm wrong...)

What I'm not sure right now is whether the 6516 needs a CFC as replacement
for the DFC, or whether it's sufficient to remove the DFC.  I think I've 
only ever seen CFC mentioned when 67xx cards are involved, but you might
want to check cisco.com to be sure :-)

gert
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Re: [c-nsp] 6500/BGP/full route tables [even more] confusing...

2011-03-26 Thread Tim Stevenson

Hi Jeff,

Removing the DFC from a 65xx card  letting the PFC do the work is 
HIGHLY preferable to letting traffic punt for your shortest mask 
prefixes, which are the ones that won't get into the h/w if you blow 
out the FIB TCAM.


In order of preference:
* get an XL DFC, list price on a DFC3CXL is like $15000
* remove the DFC from the card. You can do this easily on a 65xx card 
(note that with 67xx cards you'd need a CFC around to replace it 
with). 65xx without DFC will use the bus to get central lookups by 
the PFC,  will use the fabric for sending data traffic to the egress module.
* just blow out the TCAM randomly and punt to the CPU. This is not 
just least preferred, it's bordering on downright insane.


2 cents,
Tim


At 12:05 PM 3/26/2011, Jeff Kell quipped:


On 3/26/2011 2:32 PM, Jon Lewis wrote:
 On Sat, 26 Mar 2011, Jeff Kell wrote:
 I intended to upgrade this to something suitable for full routing
 tables, and went for a Sup720/PFC3CXL.  A million routes, right?

 Not really.  The million routes thing is highly misleading.

It at least depends on a whole lot of things.  I'll settle for half.
Just not 192K.

 Received another WS-X6516-GBIC but with a DFC3A.  Powers up, but
 switches everything to PFC3A mode [192K routes]:

 If you're not doing that much traffic, is removing the DFC from the
 WS-X6516-GBIC an option?

I don't know, that's why I'm asking, but if that's a viable option, will
certainly give it a try.

Jeff
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Re: [c-nsp] 6500/BGP/full route tables [even more] confusing...

2011-03-26 Thread Andriy Bilous
disregard =)

On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Andriy Bilous andriy.bil...@gmail.com wrote:
 As far as I'm aware there is no DFC in 6516, it's a legacy card with
 a single 8Gb (duplex) connection to the fabric. Your output actually
 confirms that, saying CEF256. Are there any other modules in the
 chassis?

 On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 8:05 PM, Jeff Kell jeff-k...@utc.edu wrote:
 On 3/26/2011 2:32 PM, Jon Lewis wrote:
 On Sat, 26 Mar 2011, Jeff Kell wrote:
 I intended to upgrade this to something suitable for full routing
 tables, and went for a Sup720/PFC3CXL.  A million routes, right?

 Not really.  The million routes thing is highly misleading.

 It at least depends on a whole lot of things.  I'll settle for half.
 Just not 192K.

 Received another WS-X6516-GBIC but with a DFC3A.  Powers up, but
 switches everything to PFC3A mode [192K routes]:

 If you're not doing that much traffic, is removing the DFC from the
 WS-X6516-GBIC an option?

 I don't know, that's why I'm asking, but if that's a viable option, will
 certainly give it a try.

 Jeff
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Re: [c-nsp] 6500/BGP/full route tables [even more] confusing...

2011-03-26 Thread Andriy Bilous
My bad. Somehow I've got the impression only 67xx using DFC.

On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 8:32 PM, Tim Stevenson tstev...@cisco.com wrote:
 DFC is optional on CEF256 cards. CEF256 is just a family name. The dCEF
 under CEF mode indicates whether it's doing central or distributed (d =
 distributed, ie, DFC).

 sh module will clearly tell you whether a DFC is present or not, under the
 Sub-Module heading.

 Tim

 At 12:22 PM 3/26/2011, Andriy Bilous quipped:

 As far as I'm aware there is no DFC in 6516, it's a legacy card with
 a single 8Gb (duplex) connection to the fabric. Your output actually
 confirms that, saying CEF256. Are there any other modules in the
 chassis?

 On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 8:05 PM, Jeff Kell jeff-k...@utc.edu wrote:
  On 3/26/2011 2:32 PM, Jon Lewis wrote:
  On Sat, 26 Mar 2011, Jeff Kell wrote:
  I intended to upgrade this to something suitable for full routing
  tables, and went for a Sup720/PFC3CXL.  A million routes, right?
 
  Not really.  The million routes thing is highly misleading.
 
  It at least depends on a whole lot of things.  I'll settle for half.
  Just not 192K.
 
  Received another WS-X6516-GBIC but with a DFC3A.  Powers up, but
  switches everything to PFC3A mode [192K routes]:
 
  If you're not doing that much traffic, is removing the DFC from the
  WS-X6516-GBIC an option?
 
  I don't know, that's why I'm asking, but if that's a viable option, will
  certainly give it a try.
 
  Jeff
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 Distinguished Technical Marketing Engineer, Cisco Nexus 7000
 Cisco - http://www.cisco.com
 IP Phone: 408-526-6759
 
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Re: [c-nsp] 6500/BGP/full route tables [even more] confusing...

2011-03-26 Thread Tim Stevenson
DFC is optional on CEF256 cards. CEF256 is just a family name. The 
dCEF under CEF mode indicates whether it's doing central or 
distributed (d = distributed, ie, DFC).


sh module will clearly tell you whether a DFC is present or not, 
under the Sub-Module heading.


Tim

At 12:22 PM 3/26/2011, Andriy Bilous quipped:


As far as I'm aware there is no DFC in 6516, it's a legacy card with
a single 8Gb (duplex) connection to the fabric. Your output actually
confirms that, saying CEF256. Are there any other modules in the
chassis?

On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 8:05 PM, Jeff Kell jeff-k...@utc.edu wrote:
 On 3/26/2011 2:32 PM, Jon Lewis wrote:
 On Sat, 26 Mar 2011, Jeff Kell wrote:
 I intended to upgrade this to something suitable for full routing
 tables, and went for a Sup720/PFC3CXL.  A million routes, right?

 Not really.  The million routes thing is highly misleading.

 It at least depends on a whole lot of things.  I'll settle for half.
 Just not 192K.

 Received another WS-X6516-GBIC but with a DFC3A.  Powers up, but
 switches everything to PFC3A mode [192K routes]:

 If you're not doing that much traffic, is removing the DFC from the
 WS-X6516-GBIC an option?

 I don't know, that's why I'm asking, but if that's a viable option, will
 certainly give it a try.

 Jeff
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Re: [c-nsp] Unknown unicast only occuring when a host is under attack...

2011-03-26 Thread ML

On 3/26/2011 9:08 AM, Jeroen van Ingen wrote:



 Assuming the DoS attack is routed traffic (since it's in netflow) it
 won't cause overflows in L2 forwarding table CAM.

Unless there's a layer2 device downstream from the router.

Not even then. Layer 2 source/dest addresses are rewritten on every
router hop. All traffic going through a router will have that router's
MAC address as L2 source. So even if you have 400,000 packets coming
through a router, each packet may have a different source IP but all
will have the same source MAC.

No matter how many Layer 2 devices are downstream: they won't alter the
packets, won't look at the Layer 3 source/dest and will only look at the
L2 source/dest (which are, in this case, router MAC as source and host
under attack MAC as destination).

Have a look with a packet sniffer (eg Wireshark) if you don't believe me :)

Regards,
Jeroen van Ingen

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If the Host under attack doesn't have a gateway and is dependent on 
proxy ARP then it would be possible for the CAM to overflow.

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Re: [c-nsp] Unknown unicast only occuring when a host is under attack...

2011-03-26 Thread Gert Doering
Hi,

On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 03:51:02PM -0400, ML wrote:
 If the Host under attack doesn't have a gateway and is dependent on 
 proxy ARP then it would be possible for the CAM to overflow.

That would be such a serious misconfiguration that all ensuring pain
is well-deserved.

gert
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[c-nsp] Is this QoS config possible in 7600 with WS-X6724-SFP?

2011-03-26 Thread Peter Olsson
We usually use this QoS config to give voice traffic priority:
class-map match-all VOICE
 match ip dscp ef 
policy-map BRANCH-WAN-EDGE_child
 class VOICE
  priority percent 10
 class class-default
  fair-queue
  random-detect dscp-based
policy-map BRANCH-WAN-EDGE_parent
 class class-default
  shape average 1
  service-policy BRANCH-WAN-EDGE_child
interface GigabitEthernet0/1.402
 service-policy output BRANCH-WAN-EDGE_parent

But now we have to do this in a 7609 with WS-X6724-SFP cards.
The setup is that the WAN lines come in on a 3750 switch, and
the 3750 switch is connected to the 7609 on two gigabit ports
in different WS-X6724-SFP cards, combined by a port-channel.
In the 7609 the WAN VLAN is terminated like this:
interface Vlan402
 bandwidth 10
 ip address xxx

All physical ports in the 7609 trust dscp:
mls qos trust dscp
Other than that we only have this QoS config in the 7609:
mls qos
mls qos map cos-dscp 0 8 16 24 32 46 48 56

I tried our usual config and some other variants, but the
7609 won't accept shaping or priority or hierarchical QoS.
Probably because it doesn't have real WAN cards since the WAN
lines are connected to the 3750.

Is there any way to do what we want in the 7609?
The only requirement right now is to give priority to traffic
marked with dscp ef. We would prefer to configure this priority
per VLAN if possible, but will do it on the physical interfaces
(or maybe on the port-channel?) if that's the only way.

A possible complication is that the WAN lines have different
bandwidth. Usually 50 Mbps, but some are 100 Mbps. This is why
priority configuration per VLAN is preferred.

Thanks!

-- 
Peter Olssonp...@leissner.se
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Re: [c-nsp] Unknown unicast only occuring when a host is under attack...

2011-03-26 Thread Jeroen van Ingen

Hi,

On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 03:51:02PM -0400, ML wrote:
  If the Host under attack doesn't have a gateway and is dependent on
  proxy ARP then it would be possible for the CAM to overflow.

That would be such a serious misconfiguration that all ensuring pain
is well-deserved.
   
Agreeing with Gert on the fact that all pain resulting from proxy-arp is 
well deserved... only use it if you really know what you're doing (and 
if you know what you're doing, generally you don't want to use proxy-arp).


With regard to proxy-arp and CAM table overflow: sorry, but I don't see 
that happening, not if we're still talking about CAM in the sense of 
layer 2 forwarding tables.


With proxy-arp enabled, a router will reply to any ARP request for 
addresses in networks that are reachable from the router (possibly 
including default route). However, the router will reply with its own 
MAC address; both as L2 source which is relevant for any intermediate 
switches, and with its MAC in the ARP payload which is relevant to the 
host that did the ARP request.


No matter how many times the router acts as a proxy (by replying to ARP 
requests for host addresses on other networks), the router will only use 
one distinct source MAC for all packets it sends into the VLAN. And only 
the source MAC in a layer 2 frame is considered when building L2 
forwarding tables.



Regards,

Jeroen van Ingen

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Re: [c-nsp] Is this QoS config possible in 7600 with WS-X6724-SFP?

2011-03-26 Thread Chris Evans
No. You need to research lan qos.  That card is a LAN card.
On Mar 26, 2011 6:56 PM, Peter Olsson p...@leissner.se wrote:
 We usually use this QoS config to give voice traffic priority:
 class-map match-all VOICE
 match ip dscp ef
 policy-map BRANCH-WAN-EDGE_child
 class VOICE
 priority percent 10
 class class-default
 fair-queue
 random-detect dscp-based
 policy-map BRANCH-WAN-EDGE_parent
 class class-default
 shape average 1
 service-policy BRANCH-WAN-EDGE_child
 interface GigabitEthernet0/1.402
 service-policy output BRANCH-WAN-EDGE_parent

 But now we have to do this in a 7609 with WS-X6724-SFP cards.
 The setup is that the WAN lines come in on a 3750 switch, and
 the 3750 switch is connected to the 7609 on two gigabit ports
 in different WS-X6724-SFP cards, combined by a port-channel.
 In the 7609 the WAN VLAN is terminated like this:
 interface Vlan402
 bandwidth 10
 ip address xxx

 All physical ports in the 7609 trust dscp:
 mls qos trust dscp
 Other than that we only have this QoS config in the 7609:
 mls qos
 mls qos map cos-dscp 0 8 16 24 32 46 48 56

 I tried our usual config and some other variants, but the
 7609 won't accept shaping or priority or hierarchical QoS.
 Probably because it doesn't have real WAN cards since the WAN
 lines are connected to the 3750.

 Is there any way to do what we want in the 7609?
 The only requirement right now is to give priority to traffic
 marked with dscp ef. We would prefer to configure this priority
 per VLAN if possible, but will do it on the physical interfaces
 (or maybe on the port-channel?) if that's the only way.

 A possible complication is that the WAN lines have different
 bandwidth. Usually 50 Mbps, but some are 100 Mbps. This is why
 priority configuration per VLAN is preferred.

 Thanks!

 --
 Peter Olsson p...@leissner.se
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