Re: [Clamav-users] Clueless Newbies [was: (no subject)]
Elizabeth Schwartz wrote: I'd like to see one list, for similar reasons. I run Solaris but I can see that a lot of folks here run Linux, and if they were on a separate list probably all their general QA's would end up on that list, and I'd end up reading it anyway. And if most of the users migrated over there, it would be harder to ask questions on the Solaris list. It's often hard to tell whether something is an OS-specific question anyway. Personally, I totally agree :) With regards to Dennis's reply, (relevant section below): There isn't time to wade through all the jabber about OS specific topics for which I am not the solution nor an interested party. It is a simple matter of efficiency and goes to effectivity as well. No offense intended, but the above is a very blinkered opinion. What you think is relevant, or irrelevant for that matter, is your opinion, and different for each person. I run BSD, and have no interest in Linux specific problems, but that does not mean that there is no information to be gleaned from reading a post which has a problem affecting a Linux system. A problem tends to be a problem, irrelevant of OS type, in a majority of cases, and to 'split' anything, list wise, would be nothing short of a crime, with regards to knowledge building. You do not have to wade through anything. The first post on a subject gives you an indication of the topic. If it is a subject of no interest, I am sure you have a keyboard with a delete key like the rest of us for the replies to that thread. Efficiency and effectiveness obviously have vastly different meanings in my book to yours. Matt ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] Clueless Newbies [was: (no subject)]
Matt Fretwell said: Elizabeth Schwartz wrote: I'd like to see one list, for similar reasons. I run Solaris but I can see that a lot of folks here run Linux, and if they were on a separate list probably all their general QA's would end up on that list, and I'd end up reading it anyway. And if most of the users migrated over there, it would be harder to ask questions on the Solaris list. It's often hard to tell whether something is an OS-specific question anyway. Personally, I totally agree :) With regards to Dennis's reply, (relevant section below): There isn't time to wade through all the jabber about OS specific topics for which I am not the solution nor an interested party. It is a simple matter of efficiency and goes to effectivity as well. No offense intended, but the above is a very blinkered opinion. What you think is relevant, or irrelevant for that matter, is your opinion, and different for each person. And what is quoted of what I said is totally out of context. I never suggested to break up the list into os-oriented lists. I suggested a second list for advanced users, but I also suggested that was unlikely to happen but we could voluntarily add a tag to the subject line that indicates the OS, such as [windows]. With that in place I would cheerfully delete it and the entire thread. It is otherwise harmless to everyone else in the world. How bad is that? I run BSD, and have no interest in Linux specific problems, but that does not mean that there is no information to be gleaned from reading a post which has a problem affecting a Linux system. A problem tends to be a problem, irrelevant of OS type, in a majority of cases, and to 'split' anything, list wise, would be nothing short of a crime, with regards to knowledge building. I give it a 10 for drama. As for problems, please observe the great many repeat questions from newbies regarding sources of rmp files, my freshclam log says my version is out of date - is my version out of date then??, questions about winclam, cygwin, etc. These are related to experience, or lack of it, or subjects that have no value to me and my environment, and it is these that I'd like to avoid if possible. You do not have to wade through anything. The first post on a subject gives you an indication of the topic. If it is a subject of no interest, I am sure you have a keyboard with a delete key like the rest of us for the replies to that thread. Reading this list daily from a variety of systems and using elm, webmail, etc. as I do there is not always a first post from a thread on a given day. In fact it would be very rare. On that point, btw, the threading on the nntp server is pretty wacked, so you never know what you're going to find in a thread. Efficiency and effectiveness obviously have vastly different meanings in my book to yours. We work in different worlds, Matt. We will just have to agree as gentlemen to disagree. dp ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
RE: [Clamav-users] Clueless Newbies [was: (no subject)]
On Fri, 2005-02-25 at 22:58 -0800, Dennis Peterson wrote: Is there a possibility there could be separate ClamAV mail lists for Linux and Windows newbies, and another for Email professionals? I can't be the only one who senses a need. I'd recommend against splitting: 1. Who is going to sign up for clamav-clueless-newbie? I can confirm that this has been the bane of many lug lists I have been on - you split the list normally into technical and chat sections, all the newbies sit on chat and all the knowledge sits in technical. What normally happens is 3 months down the line the technical list is fully subscribed and the chat list falls away. thanks Evan ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
RE: [Clamav-users] Clueless Newbies [was: (no subject)]
Daniel J McDonald said: On Fri, 2005-02-25 at 22:58 -0800, Dennis Peterson wrote: Is there a possibility there could be separate ClamAV mail lists for Linux and Windows newbies, and another for Email professionals? I can't be the only one who senses a need. I'd recommend against splitting: 1. Who is going to sign up for clamav-clueless-newbie? 2. Part of your responsibility in using open source tools is to provide support to others. That's a key difference between an open-source model and a proprietary model: nobody pays for support, so everyone who does have a clue is responsible for providing it. That's also how we keep the developers focused on the task of keeping clamav the best virus-protection in the world - by offloading the job of educating newcomers to those of us who aren't involved in the development. -- Daniel J McDonald, CCIE # 2495, CNX Austin Energy I'm not buying it, and to infer the list for the inexperienced admin be named something offensive is absurd. I think you're pulling my chain, there, Daniel. A new list, Clamav-Advanced, on the other hand, could be self-filtering. But not likley to happen. So I'll suggest what I suggested on the old VNC list: voluntarily place [Windows] or [Linux] or [BSD], etc in the subject line so we can pre-filter what is not important to each of us. I'm certain Windows users' eyes roll back in their heads when some heavy Solaris discussions are going on, and if I never read about a stunned and helpless admin who can't find an RPM distro of the latest release of ClamAV again I'll be one happy camper. There isn't time to wade through all the jabber about OS specific topics for which I am not the solution nor an interested party. It is a simple matter of efficiency and goes to effectivity as well. dp ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
RE: [Clamav-users] Clueless Newbies [was: (no subject)]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Fri, 2005-02-25 at 22:58 -0800, Dennis Peterson wrote: Is there a possibility there could be separate ClamAV mail lists for Linux and Windows newbies, and another for Email professionals? I can't be the only one who senses a need. I'd recommend against splitting: 1. Who is going to sign up for clamav-clueless-newbie? I can confirm that this has been the bane of many lug lists I have been on - you split the list normally into technical and chat sections, all the newbies sit on chat and all the knowledge sits in technical. What normally happens is 3 months down the line the technical list is fully subscribed and the chat list falls away. thanks Evan This is a list administration problem, not a user problem. That's why the clue bat was invented. dp ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] Clueless Newbies [was: (no subject)]
I'd like to see one list, for similar reasons. I run Solaris but I can see that a lot of folks here run Linux, and if they were on a separate list probably all their general QA's would end up on that list, and I'd end up reading it anyway. And if most of the users migrated over there, it would be harder to ask questions on the Solaris list. It's often hard to tell whether something is an OS-specific question anyway. ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
