Re: [ClojureScript] Re: [ANN] modern-cljs - 17th tutorial - REPLing with Enlive

[Sean Corfield]

Sven Richter wrote on Friday, December 25, 2015 at 1:08 PM:
Maybe they changed something within the file access code in W10.

This appears to be the case, yes. The issue on Windows 7 (and earlier — and 
maybe still on Windows 8?) is one that has caused countless problems for JVM 
based tooling that I’ve mentioned over the years: holding onto file locks too 
long and not allowing open files to be deleted.

Still I want to argue that a lot of business runs on Windows, especially 
development environments.

I would say it’s more likely that the sort of businesses that would run Clojure 
are also more likely to be using Mac or Linux for development work, but I 
certainly understand your point. I’ve only worked at a couple of companies over 
my entire 30+ year career that have used Windows for development, and one of 
those was a very conservative insurance-related business (the only company I’ve 
ever worked at where the product I was building actually had to run on a 
desktop computer). The other was Macromedia where the default laptop was 
Windows but you could opt for a Mac if you wanted (I started with a Toshiba but 
it quickly fell apart so I opted for a MacBook Pro to replace it) — we targeted 
*nix servers for everything my team built.

One of my big complaints about Boot when it first appeared was that Windows was 
very much a second-class citizen for that project, but now — on Windows 10 at 
least — Boot is very smooth to install and use on Windows. For a long time, 
Leiningen also treated Windows as a bit of a second-class citizen (the packaged 
installer made it much better, since you no longer need a third-party curl/wget 
installed just to use the Leiningen .bat script).

Sean Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood


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Re: [ClojureScript] Re: [ANN] modern-cljs - 17th tutorial - REPLing with Enlive

[Mimmo Cosenza]

https://clojurians.slack.com/archives/boot/p1451225818007032

Mimmo

> Il giorno 26 dic 2015, alle ore 21:42, 'Sven Richter' via ClojureScript 
> <clojurescr...@googlegroups.com> ha scritto:
> 
> Hi Yuri,
> 
> I followed to the CLJ bug and as far as I understood Alex said that clojure 
> is not related to this. This is also my thinking. NTF has different semantics 
> regarding file locking than linux. And I guess that's the problem, probably 
> the adzerk team never tried it on windows themselves.
> 
> Despite that I just gave it a try with 1.8.0-RC4 and the same error occurs.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Sven
> 
> Am Samstag, 26. Dezember 2015 14:55:30 UTC+1 schrieb Yuri Steinschreiber:
>> 
>> From what I understand by looking at the Boot file access bugs, they are 
>> actually Clojure problems (open file leaks) fixed in 1.8, so you might want 
>> to give it a try using 1.8 Release Candidate.
>> 
>> Cheers……..Yuri
>> 
>> 
>> From: 'Sven Richter' via ClojureScript
>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2015 1:08 PM
>> To: Clojure
>> Cc: clojur...@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [ClojureScript] Re: [ANN] modern-cljs - 17th tutorial - REPLing 
>> with Enlive
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Hm, 
>> 
>> Thats interesting, the first time I tried boot (when it was officially 
>> anounced) on W7 it did not work for me (one of the already existing issues 
>> hit me). 
>> As I read this announcement here I tried it again, before writing my answer.
>> What I did was to to install the latest boot and clone: 
>> https://github.com/martinklepsch/tenzing and then run boot dev in the repl.
>> After changing the only cljs file the File*Access*Exception occured. Again 
>> this was on W7.
>> 
>> Maybe they changed something within the file access code in W10.
>> 
>> Still I want to argue that a lot of business runs on Windows, especially 
>> development environments. Especially given the fact the the JVM runs on many 
>> different platforms I would prefer that also the clojure tooling runs on 
>> these platforms.
>> 
>> Of course this is only my opinion, but still I am concerned about that move.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> Sven
>> 
>> Am Freitag, 25. Dezember 2015 18:02:28 UTC+1 schrieb Sean Corfield:
>> 
>> Sven Richter wrote on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 11:33 PM:
>> 
>> While I appreciate everyones work and also like boots approach to building 
>> clojure libs I want to remind you that boot still does not work on windows.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I’ve been using Boot extensively on Windows 10 for the last few weeks and it 
>> seems to work pretty flawlessly. The only glitch I’ve seen is in Git Bash 
>> where `boot repl` hangs (it works perfectly in the regular CMD window).
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Whilst my main development setup is OS X — and I agree that the Clojure 
>> ecosystem in general favors *nix-like environments — I’ve done almost all my 
>> Boot learning on my Windows 10 laptop while watching TV in the evenings, 
>> including developing the boot-expectations library (to run Expectations in a 
>> pod in Boot), before embarking on using Boot on OS X for work (we have 
>> almost completed a switch from Leiningen to Boot — I’m expecting it to be 
>> fully complete on dev/QA today).
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Sean
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> -- 
>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
>> first post.
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>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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>> 
> 
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Re: [ClojureScript] Re: [ANN] modern-cljs - 17th tutorial - REPLing with Enlive

[Sven Richter]

Hi Yuri,

I followed to the CLJ bug and as far as I understood Alex said that clojure 
is not related to this. This is also my thinking. NTF has different 
semantics regarding file locking than linux. And I guess that's the 
problem, probably the adzerk team never tried it on windows themselves.

Despite that I just gave it a try with 1.8.0-RC4 and the same error occurs.

Best Regards,
Sven

Am Samstag, 26. Dezember 2015 14:55:30 UTC+1 schrieb Yuri Steinschreiber:
>
> From what I understand by looking at the Boot file access bugs, they are 
> actually Clojure problems (open file leaks) fixed in 1.8, so you might want 
> to give it a try using 1.8 Release Candidate.
>
> Cheers……..Yuri
>
>
> *From: *'Sven Richter' via ClojureScript 
> *Sent: *Friday, December 25, 2015 1:08 PM
> *To: *Clojure 
> *Cc: *clojur...@googlegroups.com 
> *Subject: *Re: [ClojureScript] Re: [ANN] modern-cljs - 17th tutorial - 
> REPLing with Enlive
>
>  
>
> Hm, 
>
> Thats interesting, the first time I tried boot (when it was officially 
> anounced) on W7 it did not work for me (one of the already existing issues 
> hit me). 
> As I read this announcement here I tried it again, before writing my 
> answer.
> What I did was to to install the latest boot and clone: 
> https://github.com/martinklepsch/tenzing and then run boot dev in the 
> repl.
> After changing the only cljs file the File*Access*Exception occured. Again 
> this was on W7.
>
> Maybe they changed something within the file access code in W10.
>
> Still I want to argue that a lot of business runs on Windows, especially 
> development environments. Especially given the fact the the JVM runs on 
> many different platforms I would prefer that also the clojure tooling runs 
> on these platforms.
>
> Of course this is only my opinion, but still I am concerned about that 
> move.
>
> Best Regards,
> Sven
>
> Am Freitag, 25. Dezember 2015 18:02:28 UTC+1 schrieb Sean Corfield:
>
> Sven Richter wrote on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 11:33 PM:
>
> While I appreciate everyones work and also like boots approach to building 
> clojure libs I want to remind you that boot still does not work on windows.
>
>  
>
> I’ve been using Boot extensively on Windows 10 for the last few weeks and 
> it seems to work pretty flawlessly. The only glitch I’ve seen is in Git 
> Bash where `boot repl` hangs (it works perfectly in the regular CMD window).
>
>  
>
> Whilst my main development setup is OS X — and I agree that the Clojure 
> ecosystem in general favors *nix-like environments — I’ve done almost all 
> my Boot learning on my Windows 10 laptop while watching TV in the evenings, 
> including developing the boot-expectations library (to run Expectations in 
> a pod in Boot), before embarking on using Boot on OS X for work (we have 
> almost completed a switch from Leiningen to Boot — I’m expecting it to be 
> fully complete on dev/QA today).
>
>  
>
> Sean
>
>  
>
> -- 
> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with 
> your first post.
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> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/clojurescript.
>
>  
>

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RE: [ClojureScript] Re: [ANN] modern-cljs - 17th tutorial - REPLing with Enlive

[Yuri Steinschreiber]

>From what I understand by looking at the Boot file access bugs, they are 
>actually Clojure problems (open file leaks) fixed in 1.8, so you might want to 
>give it a try using 1.8 Release Candidate.
Cheers……..Yuri

From: 'Sven Richter' via ClojureScript
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2015 1:08 PM
To: Clojure
Cc: clojurescr...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ClojureScript] Re: [ANN] modern-cljs - 17th tutorial - REPLing 
with Enlive

Hm, 

Thats interesting, the first time I tried boot (when it was officially 
anounced) on W7 it did not work for me (one of the already existing issues hit 
me). 
As I read this announcement here I tried it again, before writing my answer.
What I did was to to install the latest boot and clone: 
https://github.com/martinklepsch/tenzing and then run boot dev in the repl.
After changing the only cljs file the File*Access*Exception occured. Again this 
was on W7.

Maybe they changed something within the file access code in W10.

Still I want to argue that a lot of business runs on Windows, especially 
development environments. Especially given the fact the the JVM runs on many 
different platforms I would prefer that also the clojure tooling runs on these 
platforms.

Of course this is only my opinion, but still I am concerned about that move.

Best Regards,
Sven

Am Freitag, 25. Dezember 2015 18:02:28 UTC+1 schrieb Sean Corfield:
Sven Richter wrote on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 11:33 PM:
While I appreciate everyones work and also like boots approach to building 
clojure libs I want to remind you that boot still does not work on windows.

I’ve been using Boot extensively on Windows 10 for the last few weeks and it 
seems to work pretty flawlessly. The only glitch I’ve seen is in Git Bash where 
`boot repl` hangs (it works perfectly in the regular CMD window).

Whilst my main development setup is OS X — and I agree that the Clojure 
ecosystem in general favors *nix-like environments — I’ve done almost all my 
Boot learning on my Windows 10 laptop while watching TV in the evenings, 
including developing the boot-expectations library (to run Expectations in a 
pod in Boot), before embarking on using Boot on OS X for work (we have almost 
completed a switch from Leiningen to Boot — I’m expecting it to be fully 
complete on dev/QA today).

Sean

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Re: [ClojureScript] Re: [ANN] modern-cljs - 17th tutorial - REPLing with Enlive

[Sean Corfield]

Sven Richter wrote on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 11:33 PM:
While I appreciate everyones work and also like boots approach to building 
clojure libs I want to remind you that boot still does not work on windows.

I’ve been using Boot extensively on Windows 10 for the last few weeks and it 
seems to work pretty flawlessly. The only glitch I’ve seen is in Git Bash where 
`boot repl` hangs (it works perfectly in the regular CMD window).

Whilst my main development setup is OS X — and I agree that the Clojure 
ecosystem in general favors *nix-like environments — I’ve done almost all my 
Boot learning on my Windows 10 laptop while watching TV in the evenings, 
including developing the boot-expectations library (to run Expectations in a 
pod in Boot), before embarking on using Boot on OS X for work (we have almost 
completed a switch from Leiningen to Boot — I’m expecting it to be fully 
complete on dev/QA today).

Sean


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Re: [ClojureScript] Re: [ANN] modern-cljs - 17th tutorial - REPLing with Enlive

[Sven Richter]

Hm, 

Thats interesting, the first time I tried boot (when it was officially 
anounced) on W7 it did not work for me (one of the already existing issues 
hit me). 
As I read this announcement here I tried it again, before writing my answer.
What I did was to to install the latest boot and clone: 
https://github.com/martinklepsch/tenzing and then run boot dev in the repl.
After changing the only cljs file the File*Access*Exception occured. Again 
this was on W7.

Maybe they changed something within the file access code in W10.

Still I want to argue that a lot of business runs on Windows, especially 
development environments. Especially given the fact the the JVM runs on 
many different platforms I would prefer that also the clojure tooling runs 
on these platforms.

Of course this is only my opinion, but still I am concerned about that move.

Best Regards,
Sven

Am Freitag, 25. Dezember 2015 18:02:28 UTC+1 schrieb Sean Corfield:
>
> Sven Richter wrote on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 11:33 PM:
>
> While I appreciate everyones work and also like boots approach to building 
> clojure libs I want to remind you that boot still does not work on windows.
>
>
> I’ve been using Boot extensively on Windows 10 for the last few weeks and 
> it seems to work pretty flawlessly. The only glitch I’ve seen is in Git 
> Bash where `boot repl` hangs (it works perfectly in the regular CMD window).
>
> Whilst my main development setup is OS X — and I agree that the Clojure 
> ecosystem in general favors *nix-like environments — I’ve done almost all 
> my Boot learning on my Windows 10 laptop while watching TV in the evenings, 
> including developing the boot-expectations library (to run Expectations in 
> a pod in Boot), before embarking on using Boot on OS X for work (we have 
> almost completed a switch from Leiningen to Boot — I’m expecting it to be 
> fully complete on dev/QA today).
>
> Sean
>
>

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Re: [ClojureScript] Re: [ANN] modern-cljs - 17th tutorial - REPLing with Enlive

[Mimmo Cosenza]

yes, I saw it. As I have some free time I’ll add a note ato the series for 
windows users that suggest to use a virtual machine or docker while waiting for 
boot be able to run on windows too.

cheers

mimmo

> On 24 Dec 2015, at 09:13, 'Sven Richter' via ClojureScript 
>  wrote:
> 
> Also I just added a new doc issue: https://github.com/boot-clj/boot/issues/368
> 
> Am Donnerstag, 24. Dezember 2015 09:12:16 UTC+1 schrieb Sven Richter:
> Hi Mimmo,
> 
> No problem, I was afraid that you are not aware of it. I guess a lot of 
> people are not. In fact there have been windows issues made aware to the 
> developers of boot for a long time: 
> https://github.com/boot-clj/boot/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+windows
>  
> 
> 
> If they work on them or not is their decision. Like I said, I don't care 
> about OS either, in fact I have been a linux proponent since the mid 90-ies, 
> but not everyone is and we should be aware of that.
> 
> Of course you also have to decide for yourself how you handle that, now you 
> know the consequences.
> 
> Have a merry christmas too,
> Sven
> 
> Am Donnerstag, 24. Dezember 2015 09:02:30 UTC+1 schrieb Magomimmo:
> Hi Sven, 
> it was not my intention to exclude anyone. It's just that I never used 
> windows in my life (if I exclude a short period in which I used VisualJ++ 
> because was amazingly faster than the Sun counterpart Java IDE (around 1997). 
> 
> I'll appreciate any contribution from anyone skilled in that OS, because I 
> don't even have a windows OS to test boot and I did not even known that boot 
> does not run on windows, considering that in the readme you can read about 
> it. 
> 
> https://github.com/boot-clj/boot#windows 
>  
> 
> So, sorry about that. This is something the boot maintainers should work on. 
> 
> that said, I think that even windows users could use boot via a virtual 
> machine or a Linux containers (e.g. docker). 
> 
> To me the OS is just a commodity, as it is the JVM too. I just don't care 
> about them until they create me a problem. 
> 
> Have great holidays! 
> 
> mimmo 
> 
> On Thursday, December 24, 2015 at 8:33:50 AM UTC+1, Sven Richter wrote: 
> > Hi, 
> > 
> > While I appreciate everyones work and also like boots approach to building 
> > clojure libs I want to remind you that boot still does not work on windows. 
> > Therefore you are excluding every windows user from your tutorial. 
> > 
> > I am not sure if I was into clojure as I am today if some of the tutorials 
> > just would not have worked when I started learning it. 
> > 
> > I don't know how many people here are using windows vs linux, also I don't 
> > want to start an OS war, but I know for sure that there is a lot of 
> > business developers that are using windows only and by moving more and more 
> > to boot we are closing a gate here as long as boot does not support 
> > windows. 
> > 
> > Best Regards, 
> > Sven 
> > 
> > Am Sonntag, 20. Dezember 2015 18:47:14 UTC+1 schrieb Magomimmo: 
> > Hi all, 
> > 
> > I just published the 17th tutorial- REPLing with Enlive - of the 
> > modern-cljs series. 
> > It has been realy easy to port the first edition of the tutorial, which was 
> > based on leiningen/cljsbuild, to boot build tool (release 4.2.3 at the 
> > moment). I'm really impressed by the signal/noise ratio of boot vs. 
> > leiningen/cljsbuild and it has been really easy as well to create a TDD 
> > environment which includes live coding with the REPL (both a CLJ REPL and a 
> > CLJS REPL). There is still room for improvement to better support a tight 
> > TDD worflow (i.e. dinamically filter test nameaspaces in the test and the 
> > test-cljs tasks). I'm pretty sure the boot community will quickly fix that 
> > issue.  
> > https://github.com/magomimmo/modern-cljs/blob/master/doc/second-edition/tutorial-17.md
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > HIH 
> > mimmo 
> 
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