Re: Clojure Async/State Machine/Workflow Libraries?
I think I may have summoned the wrong demons when invoking with the `Workflow` keyword. :) I've found some resources on Event-Driven Architecture, mostly from Zach Tellman. Is his stuff the main source of that sort of thing? I realized that prismatic's graph is basically what I'm looking for (especially with the addition of async into the model) so long as my edge predicates are always based on data availability, since graph is essentially what I'm talking about as far as a 'workflow' description where you talk about steps, but the transition predicates are implicitly defined by data availability, which I think at least models the current problems that I have. Any further thoughts given that new information? -- In Christ, Timmy V. http://blog.twonegatives.com/ http://five.sentenc.es/ -- Spend less time on mail -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Clojure Async/State Machine/Workflow Libraries?
> > but one would need option to stop the execution in some point of "go" > block, persist it, and continue it later. > Why would you need to stop execution? You could just have a chan, put what you need to persist on it, then then have different go block persist it. Main processing continues on happily. On Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 1:11:43 PM UTC-4, Vjeran Marcinko wrote: > > If you're looking for something similar to some BPM (BPMN, BPEL...) > engines in Clojure land, I *think* there is nothing similar here. I'm > actually researching that area occasionally, and thinking wishfully about > implementing one in Clojure someday. > > When core.async appeared first, since it also comes from "process area" of > IT (CSP, actors, process algebra...), I thought it would be sufficient for > that case also, but unfortunately it seems it has some strong differences > between BPM engines which are "session-based", meaning, each message that > is received over channel marked as 'session creator' spawns new async > process which is long, very long running (potentially years), and all > subsequent messages that have correlation value for that process are routed > to that session afterwards. > > Biggest similarity is that both approaches (BPM enginer and core.async) > invert control of execution, meaning, you write easy-to-grasp sequential > code which is executed asynchronously, but one would need option to stop > the execution in some point of "go" block, persist it, and continue it > later. In Java, Apache ODDE, which is BPEL engine, uses Pi-calculus engine > underneath, that uses continuations queue and is able to persist the > session on demand, and dehydrate it again when needed, even if that moment > comes a year later.. > > In other words, we need something like durable, restartable, GO blocks, > for each indivudual long-running session, and there can be hundreds of > thousands of them active in a system simultaneously (think about hundred k > of active purchase orders...). > > -Vjeran > > On Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 1:35:25 PM UTC+2, Tim Visher wrote: >> >> Hey All, >> >> Anyone have any tips on clojure 'workflow' libraries? >> https://github.com/relaynetwork/impresario is very close, but lacks some >> basic features like exception transitions, etc. >> >> Basically, I'm looking for a library that allows me to create a workflow >> that will happen asynchronously, recording it's progress in a db. I think i >> could probably whip something together without _too_ much trouble using >> core.async but this feels like something that's probably already been >> written. >> >> Thanks in advance! >> >> -- >> >> In Christ, >> >> Timmy V. >> >> http://blog.twonegatives.com/ >> http://five.sentenc.es/ -- Spend less time on mail >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Clojure Async/State Machine/Workflow Libraries?
Timmy, Several BPM tools are derivatives of or are directly based upon business rule engines. They usually pile on a bunch of higher level abstractions, UIs and/or frameworks to make them business user friendly. I have not seen anything like this in Clojure. However, you might want to take a look at Clara which is a rule engine written in Clojure. It would give you a lower level library upon which you could build the rest of the BPM feature sets. If Clara doesn't give you all of what you need you could look into integrating with the JBoss/Drools tooling via Java interop. Good luck! Alan On Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 10:11:43 AM UTC-7, Vjeran Marcinko wrote: > > If you're looking for something similar to some BPM (BPMN, BPEL...) > engines in Clojure land, I *think* there is nothing similar here. I'm > actually researching that area occasionally, and thinking wishfully about > implementing one in Clojure someday. > > When core.async appeared first, since it also comes from "process area" of > IT (CSP, actors, process algebra...), I thought it would be sufficient for > that case also, but unfortunately it seems it has some strong differences > between BPM engines which are "session-based", meaning, each message that > is received over channel marked as 'session creator' spawns new async > process which is long, very long running (potentially years), and all > subsequent messages that have correlation value for that process are routed > to that session afterwards. > > Biggest similarity is that both approaches (BPM enginer and core.async) > invert control of execution, meaning, you write easy-to-grasp sequential > code which is executed asynchronously, but one would need option to stop > the execution in some point of "go" block, persist it, and continue it > later. In Java, Apache ODDE, which is BPEL engine, uses Pi-calculus engine > underneath, that uses continuations queue and is able to persist the > session on demand, and dehydrate it again when needed, even if that moment > comes a year later.. > > In other words, we need something like durable, restartable, GO blocks, > for each indivudual long-running session, and there can be hundreds of > thousands of them active in a system simultaneously (think about hundred k > of active purchase orders...). > > -Vjeran > > On Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 1:35:25 PM UTC+2, Tim Visher wrote: >> >> Hey All, >> >> Anyone have any tips on clojure 'workflow' libraries? >> https://github.com/relaynetwork/impresario is very close, but lacks some >> basic features like exception transitions, etc. >> >> Basically, I'm looking for a library that allows me to create a workflow >> that will happen asynchronously, recording it's progress in a db. I think i >> could probably whip something together without _too_ much trouble using >> core.async but this feels like something that's probably already been >> written. >> >> Thanks in advance! >> >> -- >> >> In Christ, >> >> Timmy V. >> >> http://blog.twonegatives.com/ >> http://five.sentenc.es/ -- Spend less time on mail >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Clojure Async/State Machine/Workflow Libraries?
If you're looking for something similar to some BPM (BPMN, BPEL...) engines in Clojure land, I *think* there is nothing similar here. I'm actually researching that area occasionally, and thinking wishfully about implementing one in Clojure someday. When core.async appeared first, since it also comes from "process area" of IT (CSP, actors, process algebra...), I thought it would be sufficient for that case also, but unfortunately it seems it has some strong differences between BPM engines which are "session-based", meaning, each message that is received over channel marked as 'session creator' spawns new async process which is long, very long running (potentially years), and all subsequent messages that have correlation value for that process are routed to that session afterwards. Biggest similarity is that both approaches (BPM enginer and core.async) invert control of execution, meaning, you write easy-to-grasp sequential code which is executed asynchronously, but one would need option to stop the execution in some point of "go" block, persist it, and continue it later. In Java, Apache ODDE, which is BPEL engine, uses Pi-calculus engine underneath, that uses continuations queue and is able to persist the session on demand, and dehydrate it again when needed, even if that moment comes a year later.. In other words, we need something like durable, restartable, GO blocks, for each indivudual long-running session, and there can be hundreds of thousands of them active in a system simultaneously (think about hundred k of active purchase orders...). -Vjeran On Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 1:35:25 PM UTC+2, Tim Visher wrote: > > Hey All, > > Anyone have any tips on clojure 'workflow' libraries? > https://github.com/relaynetwork/impresario is very close, but lacks some > basic features like exception transitions, etc. > > Basically, I'm looking for a library that allows me to create a workflow > that will happen asynchronously, recording it's progress in a db. I think i > could probably whip something together without _too_ much trouble using > core.async but this feels like something that's probably already been > written. > > Thanks in advance! > > -- > > In Christ, > > Timmy V. > > http://blog.twonegatives.com/ > http://five.sentenc.es/ -- Spend less time on mail > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Clojure Async/State Machine/Workflow Libraries?
Hey All, Anyone have any tips on clojure 'workflow' libraries? https://github.com/relaynetwork/impresario is very close, but lacks some basic features like exception transitions, etc. Basically, I'm looking for a library that allows me to create a workflow that will happen asynchronously, recording it's progress in a db. I think i could probably whip something together without _too_ much trouble using core.async but this feels like something that's probably already been written. Thanks in advance! -- In Christ, Timmy V. http://blog.twonegatives.com/ http://five.sentenc.es/ -- Spend less time on mail -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
