Re: Overused phrases in the Clojure community
Firstly, sorry about this thread :-D I wasn't trolling, honest, I just thought it was getting to the point where the word was loosing its meaning. There are many ways to express the notion of applying Clojure's characteristics to one's code: here's a more Clojurian version of that function... that's the Clojure way of doing it how can I write this function Clojure-style ? how could I Clojurify this code ? what's the Clojure way of doing X ? Often people actually mean a slightly different thing, but use idiomatic because it's popular -- for instance, (in particular) they might mean functional. The rest of the time, people are usually just asking how to do something in Clojure. Stackoverflow is brimming with questions like what's the idiomatic way to do X in Clojure ? when really all they want to know is how do I do X in Clojure - anyone answering is unlikely to provide an example written in say, a Smalltalk or Python style, but written in Clojure! Any answers given are likely to be implicitly idiomatic, just because they're written by Clojurians, in Clojure. In fact I challenge anyone to give an example of the least idiomatic code written in Clojure (using Java interop is cheating). On Nov 16, 5:53 pm, Ben Smith-Mannschott bsmith.o...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 02:16, thenwithexpandedwingshesteershisflight mathn...@gmail.com wrote: Can we please get bored of saying idiomatic and in particular please ? can you think of some more idiomatic way to say idiomatic, in particular? :P // ben -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Overused phrases in the Clojure community
I coded mutable Dejkstra algorithm isolated in a single function, because it's easier for me to maintain it - I used to write a lot of mutable algorithms. But I consider this code not idiomatic though useful in my case. So I think idiomatic Clojure code is not as ubiquitous as you probably mean and the word idiomatic is quite useful for discussions. In fact I challenge anyone to give an example of the least idiomatic code written in Clojure (using Java interop is cheating). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Overused phrases in the Clojure community
Perhaps idiot-magic would sub? On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 8:30 AM, Sergey Didenko sergey.dide...@gmail.com wrote: I coded mutable Dejkstra algorithm isolated in a single function, because it's easier for me to maintain it - I used to write a lot of mutable algorithms. But I consider this code not idiomatic though useful in my case. So I think idiomatic Clojure code is not as ubiquitous as you probably mean and the word idiomatic is quite useful for discussions. In fact I challenge anyone to give an example of the least idiomatic code written in Clojure (using Java interop is cheating). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Overused phrases in the Clojure community
Maybe we should qualify non-idiomatic code as being idiotmatic, that may help reducing the # of posts referencing idiomatic. However this only a letter way from making (slight) mistakes in the posts :) I just spent my day's quota of idiotic writing ... Luc On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:22:27 -0600 Duane Searsmith dsearsm...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps idiot-magic would sub? On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 8:30 AM, Sergey Didenko sergey.dide...@gmail.com wrote: I coded mutable Dejkstra algorithm isolated in a single function, because it's easier for me to maintain it - I used to write a lot of mutable algorithms. But I consider this code not idiomatic though useful in my case. So I think idiomatic Clojure code is not as ubiquitous as you probably mean and the word idiomatic is quite useful for discussions. In fact I challenge anyone to give an example of the least idiomatic code written in Clojure (using Java interop is cheating). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- Luc P. The rabid Muppet -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Overused phrases in the Clojure community
I am not sure if the OP was serious or not, but I think the desire to do things idiomatically is just one indicator of the quality of this community. I am encouraged, and challenged to learn how to use Clojure rather than bash Clojure to fit the holes/shapes I think I have. soapboxToo many times I see (and admittedly do) google-paste coding where developers need to get something done, so google it, copy the relevant fragment and shove it in their code without any appreciation for what it does or whether it is the right way./soapbox Including the word idiomatic in your post is er, well, er, idiomatic posting to the Clojure group :) (grammar not withstanding) On 16 November 2011 07:01, Ben Smith-Mannschott bsmith.o...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 02:16, thenwithexpandedwingshesteershisflight mathn...@gmail.com wrote: Can we please get bored of saying idiomatic and in particular please ? It's quite useful to be able to talk about the-way-of-expressing-this-concept-most-in-keeping-with-established-practice (idiomatic), particularly when a language still sees plenty of newcomers. The Python community, found a way around the problem you seem to be having by inventing their own word: pythonic. Do I hear any votes for clojuresque? Ok, I think I've spent my smart-a$$ quota for the day, Ben -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Overused phrases in the Clojure community
While I hope this thread dies a quick death, I'd like to offer the words 'properly' and 'well' as sometimes effective substitutes for 'idiomatically'. I am always interested in understanding how programming challenges can be addressed idiomatically, properly, and well, though I'm unlikely to have anything of value to add to the conversation. If however someone were after how to use Clojure idiotamically, I've got plenty to contribute! :) On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 12:20 AM, Colin Yates colin.ya...@gmail.com wrote: I am not sure if the OP was serious or not, but I think the desire to do things idiomatically is just one indicator of the quality of this community. I am encouraged, and challenged to learn how to use Clojure rather than bash Clojure to fit the holes/shapes I think I have. soapboxToo many times I see (and admittedly do) google-paste coding where developers need to get something done, so google it, copy the relevant fragment and shove it in their code without any appreciation for what it does or whether it is the right way./soapbox Including the word idiomatic in your post is er, well, er, idiomatic posting to the Clojure group :) (grammar not withstanding) On 16 November 2011 07:01, Ben Smith-Mannschott bsmith.o...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 02:16, thenwithexpandedwingshesteershisflight mathn...@gmail.com wrote: Can we please get bored of saying idiomatic and in particular please ? It's quite useful to be able to talk about the-way-of-expressing-this-concept-most-in-keeping-with-established-practice (idiomatic), particularly when a language still sees plenty of newcomers. The Python community, found a way around the problem you seem to be having by inventing their own word: pythonic. Do I hear any votes for clojuresque? Ok, I think I've spent my smart-a$$ quota for the day, Ben -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Overused phrases in the Clojure community
Clojed-form implementations (vs. cludged-form) is probably too cute by half -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Overused phrases in the Clojure community
In general, I agree that it's annoying to continue seeing certain words used over and over. But the use of the word idiomatic in particular seems to be very idiomatic in the Clojure community, so I don't mind it. :-) On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 8:16 PM, thenwithexpandedwingshesteershisflight mathn...@gmail.com wrote: Can we please get bored of saying idiomatic and in particular please ? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Overused phrases in the Clojure community
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:05 PM, Carl Cotner carl.cot...@gmail.com wrote: In general, I agree that it's annoying to continue seeing certain words used over and over. But the use of the word idiomatic in particularseems to be very idiomatic in the Clojure community, so I don't mind it. :-) On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 8:16 PM, thenwithexpandedwingshesteershisflight mathn...@gmail.com wrote: Can we please get bored of saying idiomatic and in particular please ? I don't want to take this topic (or myself) too seriously, but the word idiomatic is a clear and well understood word among programmers. It's useful and specific. I come from a perl background, where there is more than one way to do it, but despite the many ways to do it, there was idiomatic perl on the one hand, and everything else on the other. It's useful for me to ask, when I'm learning a new language, How would this be written in idiomatic befunge? I'll keep the word idiomatic, just as I'll keep the overused word word. I'll promise not to overuse it, and I'll try not to use it incorrectly. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- *Off the Beaten Path in Technology http://otbeatenpath.wordpress.com * -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Overused phrases in the Clojure community
Can we please get bored of saying idiomatic and in particular please ? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Overused phrases in the Clojure community
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 02:16, thenwithexpandedwingshesteershisflight mathn...@gmail.com wrote: Can we please get bored of saying idiomatic and in particular please ? can you think of some more idiomatic way to say idiomatic, in particular? :P // ben -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Overused phrases in the Clojure community
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 02:16, thenwithexpandedwingshesteershisflight mathn...@gmail.com wrote: Can we please get bored of saying idiomatic and in particular please ? It's quite useful to be able to talk about the-way-of-expressing-this-concept-most-in-keeping-with-established-practice (idiomatic), particularly when a language still sees plenty of newcomers. The Python community, found a way around the problem you seem to be having by inventing their own word: pythonic. Do I hear any votes for clojuresque? Ok, I think I've spent my smart-a$$ quota for the day, Ben -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
