Re: Stus-List C&C 37+ engine size

[phorvati . via CnC-List]

James
that sounds like tough way to get anywhere, and break something in a
process.  I had A4 for about 10 years on the same boat '76 38.  Switched to
westerbeke 40 in 2012.   I don't see a great amount of increased power when
going to wind between A4 to W40.  As you said, power comes from the sail.
But in calm conditions I do get better speed over water, perhaps my
prop(15/9 3 blade fixed)  is better suited for W40. I was hoping for a
greater increase in power in all conditions which is just not the case.
These bots are just not meant to motor into heavy seas.  One difference is
that with A4, i was always in the engine room.  Something always needed
tinkering...coil, carb, cables, sparkplugs, antifreeze leaks...etc, etc.
always something.  With a diesel, i don't really have to do anything
besides change 3 filters twice a year.  I believe they are just built
better.  And i was a big fan of A4.  Rebuilt two of them on two different
boats.   The only thing i wish now is that i had done the re-power sooner.
And in terms of expense, I bought a used w40 with hurth tranny for $1000.
Machining and complete rebuild kit were about another $2500. Put it all
together and with the help of few friends hoisted it using the mast and
boom while the boat was out of the water.  Kept all engine instruments,
even the RPM meter which i had to do a bit of electronic re-work and
calibration to make it work. Kept the tank, but changed fuel hoses and
filters.   Changed exhaust to 2".  And i invested in nice isolation mounts
and engine controls.  A lot of DIY but very reasonable in terms of cost.
Very very glad i did this.

Petar
S.V. Sundowner
1976 C&C 38 mk2


On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 2:53 AM, jtsails via CnC-List  wrote:

>   AT4 is no different than any diesel when it comes to rpm’s, try running
> a Yanmar as a direct drive with no reduction gear-you’d have the same
> problems. I have a 2:1 reduction A4 in my 38 and it does as well as or
> better than all of the reports I’m reading in these posts, although I will
> say I burn a little more fuel to do it. Not enough to ever pay to
> compensate for the expense of swapping to a diesel. The key is to match the
> prop to the engine and to run the engine in the rpm range that maximizes
> the power/efficiency ratio. For my boat with an A4 that means 2800 rpms
> (making about 23-25hp) at 1.1 gph which gives me 6.4 knots with a clean
> bottom and smooth water. To punch into waves I put the main up (with a reef
> if needed) and can make about 7 knots in any condition that I have come
> across. That includes motoring into a 28 knot head wind with 4-6 ft waves
> that were about 20ft apart (water depth <15ft). Took a lot of waves over
> the bow and got very wet on every wave, but went through it like a champ!
> No engine that you could possibly fit in the boat would have pushed through
> those waves, but the sail and engine combo
> James
> S/V Delaney
> 1976 38
> Oriental, NC
>
>  *From:* Dennis C. via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Monday, January 12, 2015 8:40 PM
> *To:* Josh Muckley  ; CnClist 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List C&C 37+ engine size
>
>  Also remember Yanmar wants to sell more (i.e., bigger) engine.  :)
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Josh Muckley  wrote:
>
>> 37+ = 16700lbs
>> 1.5 per 1000 = 25hp
>> 1 per 500 = 33.4hp
>>
>> Remember the 3HM35F has funny ratings.  IIRC they call it a 30hp engine
>> but at 3400rpm it's actual output is ~32hp and at 3600rpm it puts out ~34hp.
>>
>> Josh
>> Josh pretty much restated my argument for repowering from an AT4 to
>> a diesel.  My main reasons were flatter torque curve and better  fuel
>> economy.  The gasoline flammability issue had very little to do with my
>> decision.
>>
>> Punching into a seaway with an AT4 sucks.  To generate the horsepower, an
>> AT4 needs rpm's.  The 1:1 drive just results in making bubbles.  A diesel
>> with a flat torque curve, a reduction gear and a big pitched prop takes a
>> bigger bite without cavitating.  Blenders are great for frozen drinks but
>> not for driving a boat through waves.
>>
>> The admiral and I spent a couple hours punching dead upwind in a narrow
>> channel one day in 3-4 foot seas and mid-teens on the nose.  Sucked.
>> Sitting back in Mandeville was a brand new 25 hp diesel and all the parts
>> to repower.  We just didn't have time to complete the swap before that trip.
>>
>> As for the original thread, Yanmar, I think, recommends 1 hp per 500 lbs
>> displacement.  I think that's a bit light.
>>
>> I seem to recall Nigel Calder recommends 1.5 hp per 1000 lbs.
>>
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 5:46 PM, Jake Brodersen via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  Josh,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Great reply with good detail.  I’ve had my share of bashing into heavy
>>> seas and with just the engine, it can’t be tough going.  My 30hp Yanmar
>>> maintains a steady 3000 rpm, regardless of speed in these conditions.
>>> Heck, we could

Re: Stus-List questions from potential buyer

[Martin DeYoung via CnC-List]

I agree with Andy's response.  The tapping around areas of concern will give 
strong indication of issues if any with the laminate and / or core.



We are 1.5 years into a deck restoration on Calypso (hull #1 of the 43's 
launched in January 1970 from Bruckmann's custom yard).  We have explored all 
sorts of water intrusion issues with tapping, drilling holes, grinding out 
layers, and long ago a moisture meter.  The moisture meter had a low 
correlation to water issues, especially in locating an exact spot of excess 
moisture.  Tapping seems to be very accurate.



I have heard of moisture meters reading excess moisture in the bottom paint 
more than moisture in the laminate.  Tapping around hull stress points (keel 
stub and prop strut), hull penetrations (thru hulls etc.), and a close 
examination of the inside keel bolt areas and mast step area may be able to 
confirm the condition of the boat's structure.



If the deck is cored, have the surveyor tap around the hardware and rigging 
deck penetrations.  We found most of Calypso's failed balsa core under halyard 
blocks and around the mast collar.  To be fair, this 43 has been raced hard 
every year of its life on both coasts and the Great Lakes.  As a race boat most 
of the deck hardware had been moved several times and much maintenance was 
deferred.  Fortunately repair of balsa cored decks is straight forward with 
basic  epoxy skills but it is a little messy.



If the boat has been well maintained, was not sunk or stored with lots of water 
inside and is a fresh water boat, the moisture meter reading should not be your 
defining issue.  I expect a well maintained C&C 33 hull will outlast your 
ownership long enough to be another sailor's first C&C.



Martin

Calypso

1971 C&C 43

Seattle


From: CnC-List [cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] on behalf of andrew rothweiler 
via CnC-List [cnc-list@cnc-list.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 6:35 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List questions from potential buyer

Hello all,
I've found a mid 70s C&C 33-1 that I'm interested in buying. One thing the 
survey indicated was elevated moisture levels, into the yellow on the meter, in 
the bottom.  The owner had the bottom epoxy barrier coated about 8 years ago, 
and the bottom paint was new last year.  There were no blisters present at the 
survey, and the owner has said there have never been any- he has owned the boat 
for 30+ years.  The boat has been on the Great Lakes from new, and based on the 
condition of the boat, especially compared to all the boats I have looked at,  
I would say the boat has had an attentive, conscientious owner.

My question is whether elevated moisture in several areas of the bottom of a 
solid fiberglass hull should be a deal breaker or a matter of concern.
The surveyor told me that he would not be concerned, and that if I was I should 
 buy a new boat (hah! not happening).
Do you agree with the surveyor's lack of concern about some level of moisture 
in the bottom of a solid glass hull of a 40 year old boat?

Many thanks in advance for advice.  My search for a boat has lasted a couple of 
years now, has included a big learning curve, and has focused on C&Cs, in large 
part because of the valuable information and assistance available on this site 
from the members. Thanks again.
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Re: Stus-List C&C 37+ engine size

[Douglas Mountjoy via CnC-List]

Spencer,
Pegasus  can only motor at 6.5kts gps speed with my Yanmar 3qm30. I have a
2 blade fixed prop and am a live aboard (lots of extra weight).  Rarely do
I see 8kts. I don't run the engine faster than 2200, as the 3qm39 vibrates
a lot. If you are getting black smoke you might want to look into getting
your injectors cleaned.
Doug
Pegasus
LF38 Hull #4

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 7:45 PM, Spencer Johnson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I am feeling really under powered with a Westerbeke 27 in my LF38but
> pretty economical.  Still have trouble punching thru waves, but can motor
> sail at over 8 knots...I can motor over 7 knots but the stern digs in and I
> get a black 'moustache' on my stern from unburnt fuel...or so I've been
> told.  I normally get no smoking of the exhaust at any time. Maybe 2800
> hours on the enginestarts fine all the time!
>
>  Spencer Johnson
> 1984 C&C LF 38 "Alegria" #165
> ~~~_/) * 
> Mount Prospect, IL
>
>
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Stus-List C&C 37+ engine size

[Spencer Johnson via CnC-List]

I am feeling really under powered with a Westerbeke 27 in my LF38but pretty 
economical.  Still have trouble punching thru waves, but can motor sail at over 
8 knots...I can motor over 7 knots but the stern digs in and I get a black 
'moustache' on my stern from unburnt fuel...or so I've been told.  I normally 
get no smoking of the exhaust at any time. Maybe 2800 hours on the 
enginestarts fine all the time!





Spencer Johnson
1984 C&C LF 38 "Alegria" #165
~~~_/) * 
Mount Prospect, IL



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Re: Stus-List questions from potential buyer

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

He should have tapped the hull, too, which would tell him if there is any 
delamination. High readings could be caused by condensation inside the boat. 
Bottom line is that I would tend to trust him. Get a second opinion, if you're 
not confident.
Great boat! Good luck with your purchase.

Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine



Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

> On Jan 13, 2015, at 21:35, andrew rothweiler via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> I've found a mid 70s C&C 33-1 that I'm interested in buying. One thing the 
> survey indicated was elevated moisture levels, into the yellow on the meter, 
> in the bottom.  The owner had the bottom epoxy barrier coated about 8 years 
> ago, and the bottom paint was new last year.  There were no blisters present 
> at the survey, and the owner has said there have never been any- he has owned 
> the boat for 30+ years.  The boat has been on the Great Lakes from new, and 
> based on the condition of the boat, especially compared to all the boats I 
> have looked at,  I would say the boat has had an attentive, conscientious 
> owner. 
> 
> My question is whether elevated moisture in several areas of the bottom of a 
> solid fiberglass hull should be a deal breaker or a matter of concern.
> The surveyor told me that he would not be concerned, and that if I was I 
> should  buy a new boat (hah! not happening).
> Do you agree with the surveyor's lack of concern about some level of moisture 
> in the bottom of a solid glass hull of a 40 year old boat?
> 
> Many thanks in advance for advice.  My search for a boat has lasted a couple 
> of years now, has included a big learning curve, and has focused on C&Cs, in 
> large part because of the valuable information and assistance available on 
> this site from the members. Thanks again.
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album.
> 
> Please donate to the C&C Photo Album to keep this list free for all 
> subscribers.
> 
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> at:
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Stus-List questions from potential buyer

[andrew rothweiler via CnC-List]

Hello all,
I've found a mid 70s C&C 33-1 that I'm interested in buying. One thing the 
survey indicated was elevated moisture levels, into the yellow on the meter, in 
the bottom.  The owner had the bottom epoxy barrier coated about 8 years ago, 
and the bottom paint was new last year.  There were no blisters present at the 
survey, and the owner has said there have never been any- he has owned the boat 
for 30+ years.  The boat has been on the Great Lakes from new, and based on the 
condition of the boat, especially compared to all the boats I have looked at,  
I would say the boat has had an attentive, conscientious owner. 

My question is whether elevated moisture in several areas of the bottom of a 
solid fiberglass hull should be a deal breaker or a matter of concern. 
The surveyor told me that he would not be concerned, and that if I was I should 
 buy a new boat (hah! not happening).
Do you agree with the surveyor's lack of concern about some level of moisture 
in the bottom of a solid glass hull of a 40 year old boat?

Many thanks in advance for advice.  My search for a boat has lasted a couple of 
years now, has included a big learning curve, and has focused on C&Cs, in large 
part because of the valuable information and assistance available on this site 
from the members. Thanks again.___
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Re: Stus-List Life rafts

[Colin Kilgour via CnC-List]

Yeah,  the life raft is a big nut and one where you hope you never get your
money's worth from it.

I recertified my 6 man raft in 2014 and it was about $1100.  Unless you are
going to do a bunch of offshore sailing,  a rental may work out better.

Cheers
Colin
 On Jan 8, 2015 1:38 PM, "David Paine via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> David,
>
> Too bad your race starts the day after the return leg of my race begins --
> we could have worked-out a deal.
>
> David
>
> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 1:23 PM, David via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
>> I too am in the same boat (raft?).
>>
>> We are doing the Marion-Bermuda Race again this year and I checked on
>> rentals as we have done in the past.
>>
>> From $800 to $1,250!
>>
>> Although an open-ended offer to re-certify would probably be as much as
>> renting I am open to discussion if anybody else has any ideas.  Taking care
>> of the other David, of course, takes priority.
>>
>> I will definitely check on Vane too.
>>
>>
>>
>> David F. Risch
>> 1981 40-2
>> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>>
>>
>> --
>> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 12:57:08 -0500
>> To: j...@svpaws.net; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Life rafts
>> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>> David,
>>
>> Sounds awesome!  I know a C&C 41 that does the race regularly.  Vane
>> Bros. in Baltimore charges $500 for a raft for a month, but transporting it
>> may make it cost prohibitive.
>>
>> Joel
>> 35/3
>> Annapolis
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 12:38 PM, John Pennie via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'll jump on that offer!  You may want to check the cost of re certifying
>> a Winslow 6 man offshore before offering!  Feel free to contact me off
>> list.  I'm in NJ
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> > On Jan 8, 2015, at 12:20 PM, David Paine via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi All,
>> >
>> > Here's a cold day topic ...
>> >
>> > I am aiming to compete in the 2015 Bermuda 1-2 race in my vintage C&C
>> 33-1. (my boat won't be the only old C&C).  My pretentions are modest --
>> think Eddie the Eagle rather than Moitessier,  but I have sailed to Bermuda
>> and back several times and I have done the offshore qualifying run (several
>> times as it turns out) in my own boat.  I am now prepping the boat (new
>> sails, replacing Rod, optimizing autopilot, increasing solar capacity) and
>> acquiring the race-required safety equipment.
>> >
>> > The most challenging and difficult-to-swallow part of this is the cost
>> of an offshore life raft.  Rental rates are impossible:  $1200/ for 7-14
>> days and I would need at least three weeks since the return race starts two
>> weeks after the outbound leg.   The purchase cost of a raft ($2200 plus
>> ongoing recertification costs) is hard to rationalize for a single race
>> especially when the boat is only typically used for coastal sailing but
>> I'll swallow it if I have to.   However, if there is anyone out there in
>> C&C-land with a raft that needs re-certification, I would be happy to have
>> that done in return for the use (ummm, hopefully not) of the raft during
>> the month of June.
>> >
>> > This will likely be the first of many questions as I prep for the race
>> in the coming months.
>> >
>> > Keep warm!
>> >
>> > David
>> >
>> > ___
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joel
>> 301 541 8551
>>
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>>
>>
>
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Re: Stus-List 3QM30 injector lines

[Mike Brannon via CnC-List]

Paul,  contact me off line, mbranno...@cox.net .  I'm fairly certain that I 
have a set of new one I bought and didn't instal prior to my 3QM30 biting the 
dust.  I'll just have to locate them in my workshop.   I'm certain that we can 
make a deal.  

Mike
Virginia Lee, 93295, C&C36 CB

Sent from my iPad Mini

> On Jan 11, 2015, at 21:44, PME via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
> I am looking to replace the injector lines on a Yanmar 3QM30.  The old ones I 
> received with my “basket case” of engine parts are in ruff shape, rusty, 
> dirty and in one, blocked up.  I know these are high pressure lines, but I am 
> utterly shocked by what Yanmar is asking for new ones(see the prices from 
> TOAD Marine below).  My guess is that Yanmar no longer makes these.  
> 
> inject. pipe 1121370-59810 $157.70 
> inject. pipe 2121370-59820 $109.96
> inject. pipe 3121370-59830 $820.85 
> 
> Now, nobody in their right mind would pay these prices.  Does anyone have a 
> good source for these(or equivalent straight) injector lines?   
> 
> Thanks for any insight.
> 
> 
> -
> Paul E.
> 1981 C&C 38 Landfall 
> S/V Johanna Rose
> Carrabelle, FL
> 
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Re: Stus-List The stern squats at high speed

[Mike Brannon via CnC-List]

Tom,  My 36 does the same thing.  It did with a fixed prop and it does it with 
a two blade Max Prop.  I believe I also have an 18" prop but am not sure off 
the top of my head.  If its fairly flat I can get 7 knots.It bothered me 
when I first got the boat but I'm rather used to it now and just accept it as 
normal squat.  

Mike
Virginia Lee, 93295,  1978 C&C 36 CB  

Sent from my iPad Mini

> On Jan 11, 2015, at 11:54, TOM VINCENT via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> I was wondering if anyone else has the same problem that I have with my 36' 
> that has the 3 cylinder Yanmar 30 HP. While motoring if I increase the speed 
> the stern starts squatting the faster I go. I top out at 6.5 knots of speed 
> and the stern is way down. I have a martec 18'' folding prop and I do not 
> know the pitch.
>  
> Tom Vincent
> Frolic II 1979 36' C&C
>  
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Re: Stus-List C&C 37+ engine size

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

And BTU per liter is higher for diesel.

Josh
On Jan 13, 2015 1:43 PM, "Russ & Melody via CnC-List" 
wrote:

>
> Fuel cost comparison is a red herring.
> For most people on this list the amount spent on motoring boat fuel this
> winter is remarkably the same whether the auxiliary power is electric,
> gasoline or diesel. :)
>
> Cheers, Russ
> *Sweet *35 mk-1
>
> At 07:13 PM 12/01/2015, you wrote:
>
> As gasoline engines go the Atomic 4 has a flat torque curve.
> There are various version of the A4 around, but the common 30 HP
> variant had about 35 ft/lbs at 1000 RPM, and "peaks" around
> 43 ft/lbs. From about 1800 RPM to 3500 RPM it stayed within
> about +/- 1.5 ft/lbs.
>
> If you compare the Beta Marine 25 HP diesel ( BD902 ) it has a
> similar curve, maybe +/- 2.5 ft/lbs from 1600 to 3600.
>
> Since HP come from torque x RPM the HP curves are similar.
>
>  On a 27 - 32 moderate displacement sailboat the Atomic 4 and
> a 1:1 transmission was an adequate match. A target would be to
> maintain 70 - 80% of hull speed at around 1800 RPM with some
> head wind and seas.  On an A4 that would be around 13 HP.
>
> Fuel economy? I went by a gas station earlier today. Gas was
> $0.81 a litre, diesel was $1.15 a litre. Ouch!
>
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C&C 30-1
>
>
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Re: Stus-List C&C 37+ engine size

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

True.  Using my fuel usage numbers from Touche's AT4 experience and
Universal 25XPB:

Diesel
  0.7 gph x $2.76 = $1.93/hr
Gasoline
  1.0 gph x $1.83 = $1.83/hr

That's pretty much the same $$ in my book.

The big difference is range.

Diesel
  18 gallons/0.7 gph = 26 hours or 165 nm @ 6.3 knots
Gasoline
  18 gallons/1.0 gph = 18 hours or 100 nm @ 5.9 knots

Dennis C.


On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 12:43 PM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
> Fuel cost comparison is a red herring.
> For most people on this list the amount spent on motoring boat fuel this
> winter is remarkably the same whether the auxiliary power is electric,
> gasoline or diesel. :)
>
> Cheers, Russ
> *Sweet *35 mk-1
>
> At 07:13 PM 12/01/2015, you wrote:
>
> As gasoline engines go the Atomic 4 has a flat torque curve.
> There are various version of the A4 around, but the common 30 HP
> variant had about 35 ft/lbs at 1000 RPM, and "peaks" around
> 43 ft/lbs. From about 1800 RPM to 3500 RPM it stayed within
> about +/- 1.5 ft/lbs.
>
> If you compare the Beta Marine 25 HP diesel ( BD902 ) it has a
> similar curve, maybe +/- 2.5 ft/lbs from 1600 to 3600.
>
> Since HP come from torque x RPM the HP curves are similar.
>
>  On a 27 - 32 moderate displacement sailboat the Atomic 4 and
> a 1:1 transmission was an adequate match. A target would be to
> maintain 70 - 80% of hull speed at around 1800 RPM with some
> head wind and seas.  On an A4 that would be around 13 HP.
>
> Fuel economy? I went by a gas station earlier today. Gas was
> $0.81 a litre, diesel was $1.15 a litre. Ouch!
>
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C&C 30-1
>
>
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Re: Stus-List C&C 37+ engine size

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Fuel cost comparison is a red herring.
For most people on this list the amount spent on motoring boat fuel 
this winter is remarkably the same whether the auxiliary power is 
electric, gasoline or diesel. :)


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

At 07:13 PM 12/01/2015, you wrote:

As gasoline engines go the Atomic 4 has a flat torque curve.
There are various version of the A4 around, but the common 30 HP
variant had about 35 ft/lbs at 1000 RPM, and "peaks" around
43 ft/lbs. From about 1800 RPM to 3500 RPM it stayed within
about +/- 1.5 ft/lbs.

If you compare the Beta Marine 25 HP diesel ( BD902 ) it has a
similar curve, maybe +/- 2.5 ft/lbs from 1600 to 3600.

Since HP come from torque x RPM the HP curves are similar.

 On a 27 - 32 moderate displacement sailboat the Atomic 4 and
a 1:1 transmission was an adequate match. A target would be to
maintain 70 - 80% of hull speed at around 1800 RPM with some
head wind and seas.  On an A4 that would be around 13 HP.

Fuel economy? I went by a gas station earlier today. Gas was
$0.81 a litre, diesel was $1.15 a litre. Ouch!

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1

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Re: Stus-List C&C 37+ engine size

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

The 1:1 drive is sub-optimal for the 35, but changing over to the reduction 
gear seams a major PITA.

 

Joe Della Barba

j...@dellabarba.com  

Coquina

C&C 35 MK I

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of jtsails via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2015 9:53 PM
To: Dennis C.; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 37+ engine size

 

AT4 is no different than any diesel when it comes to rpm’s, try running a 
Yanmar as a direct drive with no reduction gear-you’d have the same problems. I 
have a 2:1 reduction A4 in my 38 and it does as well as or better than all of 
the reports I’m reading in these posts, although I will say I burn a little 
more fuel to do it. Not enough to ever pay to compensate for the expense of 
swapping to a diesel. The key is to match the prop to the engine and to run the 
engine in the rpm range that maximizes the power/efficiency ratio. For my boat 
with an A4 that means 2800 rpms (making about 23-25hp) at 1.1 gph which gives 
me 6.4 knots with a clean bottom and smooth water. To punch into waves I put 
the main up (with a reef if needed) and can make about 7 knots in any condition 
that I have come across. That includes motoring into a 28 knot head wind with 
4-6 ft waves that were about 20ft apart (water depth <15ft). Took a lot of 
waves over the bow and got very wet on every wave, but went through it like a 
champ! No engine that you could possibly fit in the boat would have pushed 
through those waves, but the sail and engine combo

James

S/V Delaney

1976 38

Oriental, NC 

 

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List   

Sent: Monday, January 12, 2015 8:40 PM

To: Josh Muckley   ; CnClist 
  

Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 37+ engine size

 

Also remember Yanmar wants to sell more (i.e., bigger) engine.  :)

Dennis C.

 

On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Josh Muckley mailto:muckl...@gmail.com> > wrote:

37+ = 16700lbs
1.5 per 1000 = 25hp
1 per 500 = 33.4hp

Remember the 3HM35F has funny ratings.  IIRC they call it a 30hp engine but at 
3400rpm it's actual output is ~32hp and at 3600rpm it puts out ~34hp.

Josh

Josh pretty much restated my argument for repowering from an AT4 to a diesel.  
My main reasons were flatter torque curve and better  fuel economy.  The 
gasoline flammability issue had very little to do with my decision.

Punching into a seaway with an AT4 sucks.  To generate the horsepower, an AT4 
needs rpm's.  The 1:1 drive just results in making bubbles.  A diesel with a 
flat torque curve, a reduction gear and a big pitched prop takes a bigger bite 
without cavitating.  Blenders are great for frozen drinks but not for driving a 
boat through waves.

The admiral and I spent a couple hours punching dead upwind in a narrow channel 
one day in 3-4 foot seas and mid-teens on the nose.  Sucked.  Sitting back in 
Mandeville was a brand new 25 hp diesel and all the parts to repower.  We just 
didn't have time to complete the swap before that trip.

As for the original thread, Yanmar, I think, recommends 1 hp per 500 lbs 
displacement.  I think that's a bit light.

I seem to recall Nigel Calder recommends 1.5 hp per 1000 lbs.  

 

Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA

 

On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 5:46 PM, Jake Brodersen via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Josh,

 

Great reply with good detail.  I’ve had my share of bashing into heavy seas and 
with just the engine, it can’t be tough going.  My 30hp Yanmar maintains a 
steady 3000 rpm, regardless of speed in these conditions.  Heck, we could be 
sliding backwards and the engine won’t slow down.  Gotta love diesel torque.

 

I find it easier to motorsail when conditions get extreme.  The ride is easier 
and you do go faster.  The heel stays fairly constant too.  

 

Jake

 

Jake Brodersen

“Midnight Mistress”

C&C 35 Mk-III

Hampton VA

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
 ] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2015 10:46 AM
To: DJ Hawk; C&C List
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 37+ engine size

 

When you are experiencing heavy currents and can only go 3 kts to round the 
mark.  Is that 3 kts being measured by the gps or is it 3 kts measured by the 
speed log?  It sounds to me like it is 3kts by gps and if so then from all of 
the other listers comments and my own experience a larger engine would only 
allow you to proceed at 4kts.

When people experience a mismatch between boat size and drive train performance 
it is most often experienced in heavy chop.  I believe there are two main 
factors at work in these "under powered" cases.  

The first is the diameter of the prop.  Smaller engines = smaller props = less 
bite in the water and when things get sloppy the prop slips and cavitates more.

The second part is prop speed.  In order to use a smaller engine to

Stus-List Broken Goose neck

[Ryan Raber via CnC-List]

The AL goose neck broke do to dis similar materials AL/SS, or al lest thats 
what busted mine.  the new one 


Ryan Raber
207.841.7881
r...@fvprovidian.net





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