Stus-List 29-2 keel bolts and hull cracks

[Bob Hickson via CnC-List]

Hi Derek,

 

I purchased a 29-2 in 2012 - 1985 hull 693.

In have looked at a lot of 29-2's over the last few years.

Most do not have any signs of cracks in the hulls either below the waterline
or above.

I have seen a couple with cracks radiating out from the forward edge and
trailing edge of the keel.

In my opinion, this indicates a hard grounding of the boat. The worst
example of hull cracks still had a lot of damage to the front of the keel
that had not been repaired. The damage had obviously been caused by a hard
grounding on rocks. I would recommend that you pick a couple of the worst
cracks and scrape a narrow band until you reach the bottom of the crack. If
the cracks extend through the gelcoat into the fiberglass layup then I would
have a surveyor check the boat. If they are superficial and do not extend
into the layup then they are mainly a cosmetic / water ingress issue.

I grounded my 29-2 in a channel that was being dredged in 2013. The boat hit
a pile of sand left in the channel by the dredge and stopped dead in the
water from a speed of 5.5 knots.

After the grounding the keel bolts started to leak.

When I removed the nut and washer from one of the large keel bolts, I was
surprised to see the same large clearance with no filler around the bolt
with water pouring in through the gap.

The boat went to Wiggers in Bowmanville. They dropped the keel and rebedded
it.

Turns out the previous owner had dropped the keel and rebedded it in epoxy
rather than sealant. Wiggers said the shock from the grounding had
delaminated this layer of epoxy bedding and caused the leaks.

Wiggers rebedded the keel with Sikaflex and it has been trouble free with mo
C&C smile.

 

The forward keel bolt / mast step is a know weakness in the 29-2. The large
void under the mast step and in the forward part of the stub keel is filled
with a hard foam.

I suggest that you drill exploratory holes in the front side of the bilge
sump into the foam filled "void" under the mast. If water comes out of the
holes, you have a problem. My boat has 3 drain holes from the bilge sump
into this area. I periodically probe into the foam filled void with a wire
to make sure that it is dry.

 

Are you in the east end or west end of Toronto.

I am in the east and would be happy to look at your boat if you want

 

 

 

Fair Winds,

 

Bob Hickson, P. Eng.

Frenchman's Bay Yacht Club,

C and C 29 mark 2, Flying Colours,

416-919-2297

bobhick...@rogers.com  

 

 

 

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Stus-List First sail of the season

[Martin 'Mac' McKenzie via CnC-List]

I had my first sail of the season yesterday. For late April on Lake Ontario it 
was great. 10 - 12 knot winds and relatively warm. Shorts, sweatshirt and life 
jacket. Re-calibrated Autopilot and wind instruments first.
 Mac McKenzies/v Worthy Pearl1983 C&C 37Toronto___

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Stus-List Volvo

[Charlie Normand via CnC-List]

Splashed today. Who is going to be in Newport for the Volvo. Race finish?
Let's get together. C

Charlie Normand
Shadow Dancer

C&C 33 MK II. 1987
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Re: Stus-List longest running ad

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

The Crusader has a centerboard that sticks out of the back of the keel when
it is raised.

 

And while Stars and Stripes did win the Americas Cup, he wasn't the fastest
of the American Challengers. Heart of America, the Chicago Yacht Club
challenge, got a very late start on development and had a very tight budget
and did not do well in the early rounds of the challenger selection. By the
last round, she was the fastest boat, but did not have the points necessary
to become the challenger. As a matter of fact, Stars and Stripes actually
raced for the cup using the sails that were developed for Heart of America.

 

Last time I saw Heart of America she was on a mooring in Burnham Harbor in
Chicago. Renamed and converted into a private yacht with engine, interior,
and everything. She ran in several Chicago Mac races, but had such a
handicap that we used to joke that she started after the rest of the fleet
was half way to Mackinac. Pretty boat though.

 

I'd kill for one of the Heart of America Challenge posters that showed the
boat, bow on, sailing into waves of grain across a wheat field.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of robert
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 8:00 PM
To: Joe Della Barba; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List longest running ad

 

What an interesting boat for $25K USD.and a lot of boat which, from the
pictures provided, looks like one of that vintage, well maintained.

Interesting keel.we don't see many of them called a 'proboscis
keel'...I wonder if Dennis Conner saw it and used the concept for his 1987
run for the America's Cup in Freemantle, Aus.  His keel on Stars & Stripes
was a 'proboscis keel' and he kept it a secret until after he won back his
trophy.  He experimented in Hawaii for 2 years with his 'proboscis keel'
design before the AC races.he felt the sea conditions in both places
were similaras usual, he was right.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.  

If the boat is in the condition it looks in its pictures, I'd pay $25K USD
for it 

On 2015-04-30 7:45 PM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List wrote:

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1969/C%26C-Crusader-2725539/Galesville/MD/Un
ited-States#.VUKwJ5P-XhI

 

I am 99% sure this boat was listed and I took a look at her in the mid 90s.
She has not sold yet.

 

Joe Della Barba

j...@dellabarba.com  

 
 
COQUINA C&C 35






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Re: Stus-List Quick question re: putting gates in lifelines

[Tim Goodyear via CnC-List]

Upgrades every year!  At some point it's got to be worth more than a 0.x 
version number...

Tim


> On Apr 30, 2015, at 8:03 PM, Jake Brodersen  wrote:
> 
> Tim,
>  
> Did you do an upgrade to your boat?  I’m not familiar with the C&C 35-4?   ;-)
>  
> Jake
>  
> Jake Brodersen
> “Midnight Mistress”
> C&C 35 Mk-III
> Hampton VA
>  
>  
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Tim 
> Goodyear via CnC-List
> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 1:47 PM
> To: Robert Boyer; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Barbara Hickson Fellers
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Quick question re: putting gates in lifelines
>  
> Barbara, you'll need to add gate braces to the stanchions to support them 
> against the fore / aft tension you'll create to make the gate openable.  Some 
> boats (including mine) do not close the gate at the lower lifeline; make a 
> choice based on your use of boat / crew.
>  
> Regards,
>  
> Tim
> Mojito
> C&C 35-4
> Branford, CT
> 
> 
> On Apr 30, 2015, at 1:32 PM, Robert Boyer via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> West Marine's rigging shop can do it all for you and they do a nice job of it.
>  
> Bob
>  
> On Apr 30, 2015, at 1:15 PM, Barbara Hickson Fellers via CnC-List wrote:
> 
> 
>  Hi All, 
> I just found out from my 84 yr old mom whose otherwise healthy as a horse, 
> that she has declined invitations to sail because its hard for her to get 
> over the lifeline without losing her balance.  So...gates are in order asap!  
> The upper lifeline is larger than the lower (probably 3/16" and 1/8" but have 
> not measured precisely yet) and they are both vinyl coated.  They have closed 
> body adjusters at both bow and stern pulpits.  Question:  is there any reason 
> I cannot install a gate using the existing lifeline (which is in good shape) 
> by loosening up the adjusters, cutting the lifeline where needed at the gate 
> stanchions and installing the hardware, then tightening adjusters to fit?  
> Existing hardware is all machine swaged and I'm going with hand swaged 
> fittings for the gates (if I can find a big swaging tool :-o ).  Am I missing 
> something?  Trying to get this done for a Mother's Day sail and brunch on the 
> boat.  I don't think this would be too hard to get done right, but you know 
> how those "little" boat projects go...  Thanks,
> Barbara Hickson Fellers
> C & C 33-1  Flight Risk
> Charleston, SC 
>  
> ___
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> 
>  
> Bob Boyer
> S/V Rainy Days (1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230)
> email: dainyr...@icloud.com
> blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
> 
> "There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
> messing about in boats." --Kenneth Grahame
>  
> ___
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Re: Stus-List longest running ad

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1973/C%26C-39-Sail-1437090/Portsmouth/VA/Uni
ted-States#.VULL-ZP-XhI

 

I think this one is at least 5-8 years on YW.

 

Joe Della Barba

j...@dellabarba.com

From: robert [mailto:robertabb...@eastlink.ca] 
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 8:00 PM
To: Joe Della Barba; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List longest running ad

 

What an interesting boat for $25K USD.and a lot of boat which, from the
pictures provided, looks like one of that vintage, well maintained.

Interesting keel.we don't see many of them called a 'proboscis
keel'...I wonder if Dennis Conner saw it and used the concept for his 1987
run for the America's Cup in Freemantle, Aus.  His keel on Stars & Stripes
was a 'proboscis keel' and he kept it a secret until after he won back his
trophy.  He experimented in Hawaii for 2 years with his 'proboscis keel'
design before the AC races.he felt the sea conditions in both places
were similaras usual, he was right.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.  

If the boat is in the condition it looks in its pictures, I'd pay $25K USD
for it 

On 2015-04-30 7:45 PM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List wrote:

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1969/C%26C-Crusader-2725539/Galesville/MD/Un
ited-States#.VUKwJ5P-XhI

 

I am 99% sure this boat was listed and I took a look at her in the mid 90s.
She has not sold yet.

 

Joe Della Barba

j...@dellabarba.com  

 
 
COQUINA C&C 35






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Re: Stus-List Quick question re: putting gates in lifelines

[Jake Brodersen via CnC-List]

Tim,

 

Did you do an upgrade to your boat?  I’m not familiar with the C&C 35-4?   ;-)

 

Jake

 

Jake Brodersen

“Midnight Mistress”

C&C 35 Mk-III

Hampton VA

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Tim Goodyear 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 1:47 PM
To: Robert Boyer; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Barbara Hickson Fellers
Subject: Re: Stus-List Quick question re: putting gates in lifelines

 

Barbara, you'll need to add gate braces to the stanchions to support them 
against the fore / aft tension you'll create to make the gate openable.  Some 
boats (including mine) do not close the gate at the lower lifeline; make a 
choice based on your use of boat / crew.

 

Regards,

 

Tim

Mojito

C&C 35-4

Branford, CT


On Apr 30, 2015, at 1:32 PM, Robert Boyer via CnC-List  
wrote:

West Marine's rigging shop can do it all for you and they do a nice job of it.

 

Bob

 

On Apr 30, 2015, at 1:15 PM, Barbara Hickson Fellers via CnC-List wrote:





 Hi All,  

I just found out from my 84 yr old mom whose otherwise healthy as a horse, that 
she has declined invitations to sail because its hard for her to get over the 
lifeline without losing her balance.  So...gates are in order asap!  The upper 
lifeline is larger than the lower (probably 3/16" and 1/8" but have not 
measured precisely yet) and they are both vinyl coated.  They have closed body 
adjusters at both bow and stern pulpits.  Question:  is there any reason I 
cannot install a gate using the existing lifeline (which is in good shape) by 
loosening up the adjusters, cutting the lifeline where needed at the gate 
stanchions and installing the hardware, then tightening adjusters to fit?  
Existing hardware is all machine swaged and I'm going with hand swaged fittings 
for the gates (if I can find a big swaging tool :-o ).  Am I missing something? 
 Trying to get this done for a Mother's Day sail and brunch on the boat.  I 
don't think this would be too hard to get done right, but you know how those 
"little" boat projects go...  Thanks,

Barbara Hickson Fellers

C & C 33-1  Flight Risk

Charleston, SC  

 

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Bob Boyer
S/V Rainy Days (1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230)
email: dainyr...@icloud.com

blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
messing about in boats." --Kenneth Grahame

 

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Re: Stus-List LF38 Mast Placement in the Step

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

My spacers are all aft of the mast.

Bob Boyer
S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
email: dainyr...@icloud.com 
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame

> On Apr 30, 2015, at 3:26 PM, ed vanderkruk via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have 4 spacer blocks that position the mast in the step. So I take it that 
> most folks have all the spacers forward of the mast? I didn't recall how the 
> PO had it so have split it 2 and 2 for years.
> 
> Ed
> 
> 1982 Landfall 38
> Prime Interest 
> Toronto
> 
>> On Apr 30, 2015 2:40 PM, "Joel Aronson via CnC-List"  
>> wrote:
>> More rake increases weather helm by moving the center of effort aft.
>> 
>> Joel
>> 
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Moving the base forward should give more aft rake and reduce weather-helm.
>>> 
>>> Josh Muckley
>>> S/V Sea Hawk
>>> 1989 C&C 37+
>>> Solomons, MD
>>> 
 On Apr 30, 2015 2:13 PM, "N7FN--- via CnC-List"  
 wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 I need to know, from you 38LF owners, where in the mast step your mast is 
 positioned.
 
 Right now my mast is all the way aft in the step but I can see that the 
 mast was positioned in the step farther forward at one time.
 
 The only reason that it is all the way aft is because that is where the 
 workers in the yard put it.
 
 Any ideas about how the boat would sail if the mast was positioned all the 
 way forward as opposed to all the way aft?  I have seen adjustments for 
 moving the mast in it's step on some sports boats.
 
 Frank Noragon
 C&C 38LF, s/n 001
 Rose City Yacht Club
 Portland, Oregon 
 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Joel 
>> 301 541 8551
>> 
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Re: Stus-List longest running ad

[robert via CnC-List]

What an interesting boat for $25K USD.and a lot of boat which, from 
the pictures provided, looks like one of that vintage, well maintained.


Interesting keel.we don't see many of them called a 'proboscis 
keel'...I wonder if Dennis Conner saw it and used the concept for his 
1987 run for the America's Cup in Freemantle, Aus. His keel on Stars & 
Stripes was a 'proboscis keel' and he kept it a secret until after he 
won back his trophy.  He experimented in Hawaii for 2 years with his 
'proboscis keel' design before the AC races.he felt the sea 
conditions in both places were similaras usual, he was right.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.

If the boat is in the condition it looks in its pictures, I'd pay $25K 
USD for it


On 2015-04-30 7:45 PM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List wrote:


http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1969/C%26C-Crusader-2725539/Galesville/MD/United-States#.VUKwJ5P-XhI

I am 99% sure this boat was listed and I took a look at her in the mid 
90s. She has not sold yet.


Joe Della Barba

j...@dellabarba.com

  
  
COQUINA C&C 35



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Stus-List longest running ad

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1969/C%26C-Crusader-2725539/Galesville/MD/United-States#.VUKwJ5P-XhI

 

I am 99% sure this boat was listed and I took a look at her in the mid 90s. She 
has not sold yet.

 

Joe Della Barba

j...@dellabarba.com

 
 
COQUINA C&C 35
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Re: Stus-List LF38 Mast Placement in the Step

[svpegasus38]

I think Pegasus`s mast is all the way aft. 
Doug MountjoysvPegasusLF38 hull #4just west of Ballard, WA.


-- Original message--From: N7FN--- via CnC-List Date: Thu, Apr 30, 2015 
11:13To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com;Subject:Stus-List LF38 Mast Placement in the 
StepHi,I need to know, from you 38LF owners, where in the mast step your mast 
is positioned.Right now my mast is all the way aft in the step but I can see 
that the mast was positioned in the step farther forward at one time.The only 
reason that it is all the way aft is because that is where the workers in the 
yard put it.Any ideas about how the boat would sail if the mast was positioned 
all the way forward as opposed to all the way aft?  I have seen adjustments for 
moving the mast in it's step on some sports boats.Frank NoragonC&C 38LF, s/n 
001Rose City Yacht ClubPortland, Oregon 
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Re: Stus-List rig tuning

[robert via CnC-List]

Tim:

The mast rake is approx. 8" and there is very little prebendthe mast 
on a C&C 32 really doesn't need much prebend.I would have my sail 
maker take that into consideration if I were ordering a new main 
sail..I think the main sail I use was built with no prebend in mind.


I feel that the rig tension I sail our boat with is possibly a bit on 
the 'high' side but as I said earlier, I am now a 'lazy sailor' and 
don't have the patience to back off the shroud turnbuckles one full turn 
for a light air day or turning them on two full turns for a heavy air day.


The article by Greg Cutter on the C&C site pretty much sums up how I rig 
tune the C&C 32 except for going up the mast after leaving the dock to 
adjust the intermediates.it took me two full seasons to figure out 
what tension I wanted on themit turned out to be as complicated as 
this."hand tight and then two full turns'. If my base cap shroud 
tension of 1,300 lbs. was less, say 1,100 to 1,200, I add another turn 
on the intermediates.


http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/rod_rig_tuning.htm

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S



On 2015-04-28 8:14 PM, Tim Goodyear wrote:

Robert,

I think the only things missing from your setup numbers are rake and 
pre-bend.  Our forestay length is also very easy to adjust (not that I 
do often).


Thanks,

Tim


On Apr 28, 2015, at 4:01 PM, robert via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


What Dwight is referencing is a race we did with a Kirby 25 and were 
embarrassed on the race course.  And we were especially bad on 
starboard tackwe kept wondering all day what was wrongalmost 
blaming one another for our poor performance, e.g. you can't be 
pointing high enough, you can't have my sails trimmed.After the 
race, first we discovered the shroud turnbuckles were not 
pinned.I thought they were because I thought I pinned them after 
I tensioned rig tension.  Dwight discovered by applying Pythagorean's 
theorem that the top of the mast was out of column by 18" to port. 
Any wonder why the boat was not performing the way it/we previously did.


That never happened a second time!

The 32's rig is set at cap shrouds 1,300 lbs.,  lowers 1,200, 
intermediates 500 lbs.,  backstay at rest 1,000 lbs., babystay 600 
lbs..haven't measured the headstay tension but it is about 4" to 
6"  bowed with a 135% under power. And since I stopped racing, I have 
become lazy and am just happy to have my mast in column and the rig 
not bending/stressing the boat, and go sailing almost every day 
during our sailing season. averaged over 100 days per season for 
the last 5 years on AZURAand that does not include a dozen or so 
sails each season on other people's boats.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.

On 2015-04-28 7:15 PM, dwight veinot wrote:

Robert

I think you might have learned the hard way about what rig tune 
means in that race we had with the K25 when we got whooped big time, 
especially on stbd tack...no good at all if the mast isn't plumb, 
right???


I am not sure if anyone can feel tension as accurately as the gage 
does it and the less expensive Loos gage for wire rigging ain't too 
bad either...i like it, at least it tells me stbd is the same 
tension as port but you have to use it right...everybody here, don't 
ever underestimate the importance of rig tune for performance, and 
that means perfromance as a function of expected wind strength and 
as wind strength varies so does optimum rig tension on these older 
boats, especially for pointing...y'all have to find out the hard way 
by experimenting with your own craft...a gage is essential for that 
experiment...Rob has the right gear for tuning rod rigging, he sets 
his rig up year after year for what works best on his 32, he doesn't 
race Azura so he doesn't vary his optimum rig tension for wind 
conditions all that ofeten, maybe a little more tension when the 
heavy fall winds hit here...no matter he likes what he got and 
that's OK until another 32 on the same point of sail blows him 
away...everyone is still learning, me, you and him too, get a gage 
and have some fun experimenting...watch you angle to apparent wind 
and your speed over ground on the GPS!!!


Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, */Alianna/*
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net 


On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 4:40 PM, robert via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


On everything up top on the standing rigging, I now use only SS
cotter pins.this is because on several occasions, and I can
not explain how it happened, the split rings vanished.  Luckily,
nothing fell down before the missing split ring was detected.  I
have no explanation how the split rings disappeared but I do
know that since being replaced with cotter pins, there has not
been been a missing pin.

The thread Subject is "rig tuning"..on that note I have rod
   

Re: Stus-List C&C 24 Top o'Mast Work

[Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List]

I hand lowered the mast on my Mirage 24 a few times.
Good grip-able rope attached to the end of a jib halyard will allow 
someone on the dock to tip it back - then one person (or 2) standing on 
the coach roof can catch the weight as it comes down.  Not light, but 
not too hard.


Make sure you have somewhere to rest it - and realize the tip of the 
mast will extend well off the back of the boat so you'll have to come at 
it from a dock or dinghy.


Mark


There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana

On 2015-04-30 5:08 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List wrote:
There might have been different masts for the 24, but in my old one 
(1975), I would not attempt to lower the mast without a crane - it was 
way too heavy. Possibly with a decent A-frame. Though it should pivot 
on the tabernacle.


Marek

ex. C&C 24

-Original Message- From: Andrew Frame via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 3:46 PM
To: CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List C&C 24 Top o'Mast Work


I'm still doing the new-owner fixing things and the top of the mast is
beckoning. It regularly gets whacked in low trees, so I have no idea
what shape anything is in. The windicator is long gone, and I'm
surprised the VHF whip is still attached.

My mentor suggested the easiest way to do inspection/repair is to loosen
the bow stay and both shrouds, and just lay the mast down aft. We can
then stand on the dock and fiddle about with it.

It seems perfectly reasonable up front. Anyone with 24 experience beg to
differ?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.






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Re: Stus-List C&C 24 Top o'Mast Work

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

There might have been different masts for the 24, but in my old one (1975), 
I would not attempt to lower the mast without a crane - it was way too 
heavy. Possibly with a decent A-frame. Though it should pivot on the 
tabernacle.


Marek

ex. C&C 24

-Original Message- 
From: Andrew Frame via CnC-List

Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 3:46 PM
To: CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List C&C 24 Top o'Mast Work


I'm still doing the new-owner fixing things and the top of the mast is
beckoning. It regularly gets whacked in low trees, so I have no idea
what shape anything is in. The windicator is long gone, and I'm
surprised the VHF whip is still attached.

My mentor suggested the easiest way to do inspection/repair is to loosen
the bow stay and both shrouds, and just lay the mast down aft. We can
then stand on the dock and fiddle about with it.

It seems perfectly reasonable up front. Anyone with 24 experience beg to
differ?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.



--


Andrew Frame
C&C 24
Lehigh Acres/Alva, Florida

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Stus-List C&C 24 Top o'Mast Work

[Andrew Frame via CnC-List]

I'm still doing the new-owner fixing things and the top of the mast is 
beckoning. It regularly gets whacked in low trees, so I have no idea 
what shape anything is in. The windicator is long gone, and I'm 
surprised the VHF whip is still attached.


My mentor suggested the easiest way to do inspection/repair is to loosen 
the bow stay and both shrouds, and just lay the mast down aft. We can 
then stand on the dock and fiddle about with it.


It seems perfectly reasonable up front. Anyone with 24 experience beg to 
differ?


Thanks in advance for any thoughts.



--


Andrew Frame
C&C 24
Lehigh Acres/Alva, Florida

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Re: Stus-List rig tuning

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

Hi Francois- If 8-12 inches of flop is normal baseline, then I am probably in 
that ballpark.  I was calling that floppy and thought it might be too much.  
Dave

> On Apr 30, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Jean-Francois J Rivard  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave, 
> 
> The 34+ mast base is pretty much fixed.  You adjust the rake by a combination 
> of forestay and backstay tension (Base backstay tension) and  all should be 
> fairly tight.  If your forestay foil is flopping around (More than about 8-12 
> inches overall when you lean on it which is "loose" setting for light air)  
> you have 2 potential issues:  1 your furler may not work correctly 2) You're 
> diminishing the adjustable backstay's ability effectively do it's job of 
> bending the mast to flatten the main close hauled and  / or help in 
> controlling heel.   
> 
> There's a guide on the C&C site here: 
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/rod_rig_tuning.htm 
>  
> 
> Here's a guide for the 99 which is a very similar boat with the thick mast 
> cross-section  / no runners:  
> http://www.doylesails.com/downloads/CC99TuningGuide.pdf 
>  
> 
> -Francois Rivard 
> 1990 34+ "Take Five" 
> Lake Lanier, Georgia 
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 12:03:16 -0400
> From: David Knecht 
> To: dwight veinot , CnC CnC discussion 
> list
> 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List rig tuning
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hi Dwight- Now I am even more confused, but need to get back to the boat to 
> confirm my recollection.  As I remember it, when the backstay has no added 
> tension, the roller furler track is quite slack and can be flopped around 
> easily by hand.  I will measure it this weekend to see how much flop.  So I 
> am having a hard time imagining how this tension could set the mast rake.  On 
> my previous 34, the mast base had wood blocks to move fore-aft and the deck 
> had wood blocks to move fore aft and I thought that set the basal rake.   The 
> 34+ has the mast base under the table and flooring and I have yet to take 
> everything out to get to it and see what is there.  I also have not yet 
> checked basic rake by hanging something from the halyard.  I will do that as 
> well.  I don?t think the deck has blocks for positioning so maybe that 
> suggests your idea that rake is set by the forestay. But if there is not much 
> tension on the forestay at rest, it doesn?t seem to be doing much.  If it 
> were reall!
> y tight, you wouldn?t get much effect of tensioning the backstay with a 
> masthead rig. So is the primary goal and effect of tensioning the backstay to 
> put tension on the headstay to reduce curvature, or to put bend in the mast 
> to flatten and reduce mainsail power. Dave 
> Regards 

Dr. David Knecht
Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology
Core Microscopy Facility Director
University of Connecticut   
91 N. Eagleville Rd.
Storrs, CT 06269
860-486-2200

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Re: Stus-List LF38 Mast Placement in the Step

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Ed — all four of my spacer blocks are forward of the mast heel.

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Apr 30, 2015, at 2:26 PM, ed vanderkruk via CnC-List  
wrote:

> I have 4 spacer blocks that position the mast in the step. So I take it that 
> most folks have all the spacers forward of the mast? I didn't recall how the 
> PO had it so have split it 2 and 2 for years.
> 
> Ed
> 
> 1982 Landfall 38
> Prime Interest 
> Toronto
> 

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Re: Stus-List LF38 Mast Placement in the Step

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Yep, I was bass ackwards...already been told
On Apr 30, 2015 3:26 PM, "randy via CnC-List"  wrote:

> Hey Josh, with all due respect, but moving the butt forward on a keel
> stepped rig will pivot about the partners, and should move the sail area,
> and therefore the center of effort aft, which I believe will increase
> weather helm.
>
>
>
>
>
> randy
>
> Tamanawas
>
> 29-II
>
> Hood River, OR
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2015 11:16 AM
> *To:* C&C List; n...@comcast.net
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List LF38 Mast Placement in the Step
>
>
>
> Moving the base forward should give more aft rake and reduce weather-helm.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Apr 30, 2015 2:13 PM, "N7FN--- via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I need to know, from you 38LF owners, where in the mast step your mast is
> positioned.
>
> Right now my mast is all the way aft in the step but I can see that the
> mast was positioned in the step farther forward at one time.
>
> The only reason that it is all the way aft is because that is where the
> workers in the yard put it.
>
> Any ideas about how the boat would sail if the mast was positioned all the
> way forward as opposed to all the way aft?  I have seen adjustments for
> moving the mast in it's step on some sports boats.
>
> Frank Noragon
> C&C 38LF, s/n 001
> Rose City Yacht Club
> Portland, Oregon
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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> bottom of page at:
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>
>
> ___
>
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> bottom of page at:
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>
>
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Re: Stus-List LF38 Mast Placement in the Step

[ed vanderkruk via CnC-List]

I have 4 spacer blocks that position the mast in the step. So I take it
that most folks have all the spacers forward of the mast? I didn't recall
how the PO had it so have split it 2 and 2 for years.

Ed

1982 Landfall 38
Prime Interest
Toronto
On Apr 30, 2015 2:40 PM, "Joel Aronson via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> More rake increases weather helm by moving the center of effort aft.
>
> Joel
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Moving the base forward should give more aft rake and reduce weather-helm.
>>
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C&C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>> On Apr 30, 2015 2:13 PM, "N7FN--- via CnC-List" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I need to know, from you 38LF owners, where in the mast step your mast
>>> is positioned.
>>>
>>> Right now my mast is all the way aft in the step but I can see that the
>>> mast was positioned in the step farther forward at one time.
>>>
>>> The only reason that it is all the way aft is because that is where the
>>> workers in the yard put it.
>>>
>>> Any ideas about how the boat would sail if the mast was positioned all
>>> the way forward as opposed to all the way aft?  I have seen adjustments for
>>> moving the mast in it's step on some sports boats.
>>>
>>> Frank Noragon
>>> C&C 38LF, s/n 001
>>> Rose City Yacht Club
>>> Portland, Oregon
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Email address:
>>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
>>> bottom of page at:
>>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>>>
>>>
>> ___
>>
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
>> bottom of page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Joel
> 301 541 8551
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List LF38 Mast Placement in the Step

[randy via CnC-List]

Hey Josh, with all due respect, but moving the butt forward on a keel
stepped rig will pivot about the partners, and should move the sail area,
and therefore the center of effort aft, which I believe will increase
weather helm.

 

 

randy

Tamanawas

29-II

Hood River, OR

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh
Muckley via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 11:16 AM
To: C&C List; n...@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Stus-List LF38 Mast Placement in the Step

 

Moving the base forward should give more aft rake and reduce weather-helm.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Apr 30, 2015 2:13 PM, "N7FN--- via CnC-List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:


Hi,

I need to know, from you 38LF owners, where in the mast step your mast is
positioned.

Right now my mast is all the way aft in the step but I can see that the mast
was positioned in the step farther forward at one time.

The only reason that it is all the way aft is because that is where the
workers in the yard put it.

Any ideas about how the boat would sail if the mast was positioned all the
way forward as opposed to all the way aft?  I have seen adjustments for
moving the mast in it's step on some sports boats.

Frank Noragon
C&C 38LF, s/n 001
Rose City Yacht Club
Portland, Oregon 

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Stus-List Quick question re: putting gates in lifelines

[Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List]

I concur on Martin's comment, it was a noted safety failure on my 
pre-purchase survey (And a price negotiation point) when I bought the 
boat. 

If the coating has yellow spots (Especially near the fittings)it's 
probably close to failing.  Mine was literally holding by a few threads, 
if someone would have tripped / relied on them to stop the fall they would 
have failed for sure. 

We replaced all with uncovered SS Lines (With 2 sets of gates)  "Rigging 
Only" http://www.riggingonly.com/ had the best price / quality deal. 

-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA 


Message: 13
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 18:39:08 +
From: Martin DeYoung 
To: Barbara Hickson Fellers ,
 "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Quick question re: putting gates in lifelines
Message-ID: <23eae197cc1b594fa8793397ebcd357dc74...@dmi3.dmi.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

If your vinyl coated lifelines are more than a few years old, and 
especially if they have any rust stains near a crack in the vinyl consider 
replacing them as part of this project.  The vinyl hides failing SS wire 
caused by corrosion.  I was unpleasantly surprised by how weak Calypso?s 
old vinyl covered lifelines had become.  Calypso now has un-covered SS 
wire lifelines.  I had the rigging shop re-use most of the hardware which 
kept the cost down.  I sent the old lifelines in to be used as a pattern.

If you sail in conditions where having lifelines strong enough to support 
your crew and guest?s weight might be important, close inspection and 
early replacement are recommended.  If you race, most of the ?offshore? 
class races now require non-covered lifelines.

Martin DeYoung
Calypso
1971 C&C 43
Seattle
Regards

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Re: Stus-List Quick question re: putting gates in lifelines

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

If you don't want the rest of the lifeline limp you need to use one of
these.

http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|118|2358491|2358492&id=1233088

Joel

On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 2:17 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>   Barbara,
>
> This is how I did it on my old C&C 24. It works. But you have to cut the
> safely line, because the pelican hook is usually longer than the
> turnbuckle. Measure twice and cut once, though.
>
> Your issue might be that when the gate is open, the safety line is
> completely limp, so you have to make sure than any time it is needed it is
> locked.
>
> Some people don’t like pelican hooks in the safety lines.
>
> Marek
> (in Ottawa)
>
>  *From:* Barbara Hickson Fellers via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2015 1:15 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Stus-List Quick question re: putting gates in lifelines
>
>   Hi All,
> I just found out from my 84 yr old mom whose otherwise healthy as a horse,
> that she has declined invitations to sail because its hard for her to get
> over the lifeline without losing her balance.  So...gates are in order
> asap!  The upper lifeline is larger than the lower (probably 3/16" and 1/8"
> but have not measured precisely yet) and they are both vinyl coated.  They
> have closed body adjusters at both bow and stern pulpits.  Question:  is
> there any reason I cannot install a gate using the existing lifeline (which
> is in good shape) by loosening up the adjusters, cutting the lifeline where
> needed at the gate stanchions and installing the hardware, then tightening
> adjusters to fit?  Existing hardware is all machine swaged and I'm going
> with hand swaged fittings for the gates (if I can find a big swaging tool
> :-o ).  Am I missing something?  Trying to get this done for a Mother's Day
> sail and brunch on the boat.  I don't think this would be too hard to get
> done right, but you know how those "little" boat projects go...  Thanks,
> *Barbara Hickson Fellers*
> C & C 33-1  *Flight Risk*
> Charleston, SC
>
>
> --
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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> bottom of page at:
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>
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>
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>
>
>


-- 
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301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List LF38 Mast Placement in the Step

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

More rake increases weather helm by moving the center of effort aft.

Joel

On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Moving the base forward should give more aft rake and reduce weather-helm.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> On Apr 30, 2015 2:13 PM, "N7FN--- via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I need to know, from you 38LF owners, where in the mast step your mast is
>> positioned.
>>
>> Right now my mast is all the way aft in the step but I can see that the
>> mast was positioned in the step farther forward at one time.
>>
>> The only reason that it is all the way aft is because that is where the
>> workers in the yard put it.
>>
>> Any ideas about how the boat would sail if the mast was positioned all
>> the way forward as opposed to all the way aft?  I have seen adjustments for
>> moving the mast in it's step on some sports boats.
>>
>> Frank Noragon
>> C&C 38LF, s/n 001
>> Rose City Yacht Club
>> Portland, Oregon
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
>> bottom of page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>>
>>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Quick question re: putting gates in lifelines

[Martin DeYoung via CnC-List]

If your vinyl coated lifelines are more than a few years old, and especially if 
they have any rust stains near a crack in the vinyl consider replacing them as 
part of this project.  The vinyl hides failing SS wire caused by corrosion.  I 
was unpleasantly surprised by how weak Calypso’s old vinyl covered lifelines 
had become.  Calypso now has un-covered SS wire lifelines.  I had the rigging 
shop re-use most of the hardware which kept the cost down.  I sent the old 
lifelines in to be used as a pattern.

If you sail in conditions where having lifelines strong enough to support your 
crew and guest’s weight might be important, close inspection and early 
replacement are recommended.  If you race, most of the “offshore” class races 
now require non-covered lifelines.

Martin DeYoung
Calypso
1971 C&C 43
Seattle

[Description: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F]

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Barbara 
Hickson Fellers via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 10:15 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Quick question re: putting gates in lifelines

 Hi All,
I just found out from my 84 yr old mom whose otherwise healthy as a horse, that 
she has declined invitations to sail because its hard for her to get over the 
lifeline without losing her balance.  So...gates are in order asap!  The upper 
lifeline is larger than the lower (probably 3/16" and 1/8" but have not 
measured precisely yet) and they are both vinyl coated.  They have closed body 
adjusters at both bow and stern pulpits.  Question:  is there any reason I 
cannot install a gate using the existing lifeline (which is in good shape) by 
loosening up the adjusters, cutting the lifeline where needed at the gate 
stanchions and installing the hardware, then tightening adjusters to fit?  
Existing hardware is all machine swaged and I'm going with hand swaged fittings 
for the gates (if I can find a big swaging tool :-o ).  Am I missing something? 
 Trying to get this done for a Mother's Day sail and brunch on the boat.  I 
don't think this would be too hard to get done right, but you know how those 
"little" boat projects go...  Thanks,
Barbara Hickson Fellers
C & C 33-1  Flight Risk
Charleston, SC

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Re: Stus-List LF38 Mast Placement in the Step

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Hi, Frank — mine is all the way aft, as well.

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Apr 30, 2015, at 1:13 PM, N7FN--- via CnC-List  wrote:

> 
> Hi,
> 
> I need to know, from you 38LF owners, where in the mast step your mast is 
> positioned.
> 
> Right now my mast is all the way aft in the step but I can see that the mast 
> was positioned in the step farther forward at one time.
> 
> The only reason that it is all the way aft is because that is where the 
> workers in the yard put it.
> 
> Any ideas about how the boat would sail if the mast was positioned all the 
> way forward as opposed to all the way aft?  I have seen adjustments for 
> moving the mast in it's step on some sports boats.
> 
> Frank Noragon
> C&C 38LF, s/n 001
> Rose City Yacht Club
> Portland, Oregon
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Re: Stus-List Keel bolt moving

[Martin DeYoung via CnC-List]

Derek,

Over on Sailing Anarchy there is a posting  (Fixit forum - 
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=165437) regarding severely 
corroded keel bolts (not on a C&C built boat).  While I doubt it is a similar 
issue as yours it qualifies as a way to learn from other's misfortune.

I inspected Calypso's keel bolts back in 1999.  The threaded SS rods and nuts 
were in great shape.

Another place to pick up info on your 29-2 is to purchase the drawings from the 
Maritime Museum.  When I purchased every drawing that could be found for our 
43-1 I located some notes (both for the early 43s and the early 61s) that 
defined re-enforcement added from the mast step forward to reduce bending of 
the hull in that area.  

The fact that Calypso was hull #1 and does not have that re-enforcement 
explains why we had to repair fractures in the hull just forward of the mast 
step and in line with the forward end of the fiberglass keel stub.  We will be 
adding a similar re-enforcement later this year using the information from the 
"as built" drawing of both our 43 and hull #1 of the C&C 61s.

Being more 29-2s were built vs. the 43s I bet there are some listers that have 
been down this path before you. Hopefully one of them will share their 
experiences here soon.

Martin DeYoung
Calypso
1971 C&C 43
Seattle



-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Derek McLeod 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 6:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Keel bolt moving

Hi,

I posted yesterday about some surface cracks in the hull of my 1983 C&C 29-2 
and those are still a concern, however a much bigger issue presented itself.

The mast step is off and I am fabricating an aluminum replacement. I noticed 
there is a dip in the fiberglass around the forward keel bolt. I cleaned up the 
area including old caulking around the keel bolt. While doing so, I noticed the 
bolt could be easily wiggled from side to side. I know the forward keel bolt is 
fairly long according to the diagram in the manual, but I wouldn't think I 
should be able to budge a 3/4" diameter bolt. The hole the bolt is in is 
approx. 1 1/4" diameter so there is room around it. 

Does anyone know what structure is in the stringer around that bolt? The 
diagram shows a big empty space...

I'm guessing I may have to drop the keel and have that bolt replaced. 
Fortunately, Mars Keel is only an hour away. 

Any guidelines for reattaching the keel?

Derek McLeod
C&C 29-2
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Re: Stus-List Quick question re: putting gates in lifelines

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Barbara,

This is how I did it on my old C&C 24. It works. But you have to cut the safely 
line, because the pelican hook is usually longer than the turnbuckle. Measure 
twice and cut once, though.

Your issue might be that when the gate is open, the safety line is completely 
limp, so you have to make sure than any time it is needed it is locked.

Some people don’t like pelican hooks in the safety lines.

Marek
(in Ottawa)

From: Barbara Hickson Fellers via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 1:15 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Stus-List Quick question re: putting gates in lifelines

Hi All,  
I just found out from my 84 yr old mom whose otherwise healthy as a horse, that 
she has declined invitations to sail because its hard for her to get over the 
lifeline without losing her balance.  So...gates are in order asap!  The upper 
lifeline is larger than the lower (probably 3/16" and 1/8" but have not 
measured precisely yet) and they are both vinyl coated.  They have closed body 
adjusters at both bow and stern pulpits.  Question:  is there any reason I 
cannot install a gate using the existing lifeline (which is in good shape) by 
loosening up the adjusters, cutting the lifeline where needed at the gate 
stanchions and installing the hardware, then tightening adjusters to fit?  
Existing hardware is all machine swaged and I'm going with hand swaged fittings 
for the gates (if I can find a big swaging tool :-o ).  Am I missing something? 
 Trying to get this done for a Mother's Day sail and brunch on the boat.  I 
don't think this would be too hard to get done right, but you know how those 
"little" boat projects go...  Thanks,
Barbara Hickson Fellers
C & C 33-1  Flight Risk
Charleston, SC  





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Re: Stus-List LF38 Mast Placement in the Step

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Moving the base forward should give more aft rake and reduce weather-helm.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Apr 30, 2015 2:13 PM, "N7FN--- via CnC-List" 
wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> I need to know, from you 38LF owners, where in the mast step your mast is
> positioned.
>
> Right now my mast is all the way aft in the step but I can see that the
> mast was positioned in the step farther forward at one time.
>
> The only reason that it is all the way aft is because that is where the
> workers in the yard put it.
>
> Any ideas about how the boat would sail if the mast was positioned all the
> way forward as opposed to all the way aft?  I have seen adjustments for
> moving the mast in it's step on some sports boats.
>
> Frank Noragon
> C&C 38LF, s/n 001
> Rose City Yacht Club
> Portland, Oregon
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
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Stus-List LF38 Mast Placement in the Step

[N7FN--- via CnC-List]

Hi,

I need to know, from you 38LF owners, where in the mast step your mast is 
positioned.


Right now my mast is all the way aft in the step but I can see that the mast 
was positioned in the step farther forward at one time.


The only reason that it is all the way aft is because that is where the 
workers in the yard put it.


Any ideas about how the boat would sail if the mast was positioned all the 
way forward as opposed to all the way aft?  I have seen adjustments for 
moving the mast in it's step on some sports boats.


Frank Noragon
C&C 38LF, s/n 001
Rose City Yacht Club
Portland, Oregon 



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Re: Stus-List Quick question re: putting gates in lifelines

[Andrew Frame via CnC-List]

I have a single 3/8" line on 18" (or so) stanchions. On the starboard 
side cockpit, the line has an eye and hook affair that allows you to 
step onto the boat, and hook it back together once aboard.


A much simpler situation, but it can be done.


Andrew
C&C-24



On 04/30/2015 01:15 PM, Barbara Hickson Fellers via CnC-List wrote:

  Hi All,  I just found out from my 84 yr old mom whose otherwise healthy as a horse, 
that she has declined invitations to sail because its hard for her to get over the 
lifeline without losing her balance.  So...gates are in order asap!  The upper lifeline 
is larger than the lower (probably 3/16" and 1/8" but have not measured 
precisely yet) and they are both vinyl coated.  They have closed body adjusters at both 
bow and stern pulpits.  Question:  is there any reason I cannot install a gate using the 
existing lifeline (which is in good shape) by loosening up the adjusters, cutting the 
lifeline where needed at the gate stanchions and installing the hardware, then tightening 
adjusters to fit?  Existing hardware is all machine swaged and I'm going with hand swaged 
fittings for the gates (if I can find a big swaging tool :-o ).  Am I missing something?  
Trying to get this done for a Mother's Day sail and brunch on the boat.  I don't think 
this would be too hard to get done righ

t, but yo
u know how those "little" boat projects go...  Thanks,Barbara Hickson FellersC 
& C 33-1  Flight RiskCharleston, SC





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Re: Stus-List Quick question re: putting gates in lifelines

[Tim Goodyear via CnC-List]

Barbara, you'll need to add gate braces to the stanchions to support them 
against the fore / aft tension you'll create to make the gate openable.  Some 
boats (including mine) do not close the gate at the lower lifeline; make a 
choice based on your use of boat / crew.

Regards,

Tim
Mojito
C&C 35-4
Branford, CT


> On Apr 30, 2015, at 1:32 PM, Robert Boyer via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> West Marine's rigging shop can do it all for you and they do a nice job of it.
> 
> Bob
> 
>> On Apr 30, 2015, at 1:15 PM, Barbara Hickson Fellers via CnC-List wrote:
>> 
>>  Hi All, 
>> I just found out from my 84 yr old mom whose otherwise healthy as a horse, 
>> that she has declined invitations to sail because its hard for her to get 
>> over the lifeline without losing her balance.  So...gates are in order asap! 
>>  The upper lifeline is larger than the lower (probably 3/16" and 1/8" but 
>> have not measured precisely yet) and they are both vinyl coated.  They have 
>> closed body adjusters at both bow and stern pulpits.  Question:  is there 
>> any reason I cannot install a gate using the existing lifeline (which is in 
>> good shape) by loosening up the adjusters, cutting the lifeline where needed 
>> at the gate stanchions and installing the hardware, then tightening 
>> adjusters to fit?  Existing hardware is all machine swaged and I'm going 
>> with hand swaged fittings for the gates (if I can find a big swaging tool 
>> :-o ).  Am I missing something?  Trying to get this done for a Mother's Day 
>> sail and brunch on the boat.  I don't think this would be too hard to get 
>> done right, but you know how those "little" boat projects go...  Thanks,
>> Barbara Hickson Fellers
>> C & C 33-1  Flight Risk
>> Charleston, SC  
>>  
>> ___
>> 
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
>> of page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 
> Bob Boyer
> S/V Rainy Days (1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230)
> email: dainyr...@icloud.com
> blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
> 
> "There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
> messing about in boats." --Kenneth Grahame
> 
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 
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Stus-List rig tuning

[Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List]

Hi Dave, 

The 34+ mast base is pretty much fixed.  You adjust the rake by a 
combination of forestay and backstay tension (Base backstay tension) and 
all should be fairly tight.  If your forestay foil is flopping around 
(More than about 8-12 inches overall when you lean on it which is "loose" 
setting for light air)  you have 2 potential issues:  1 your furler may 
not work correctly 2) You're diminishing the adjustable backstay's ability 
effectively do it's job of bending the mast to flatten the main close 
hauled and  / or help in controlling heel. 

There's a guide on the C&C site here: 
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/rod_rig_tuning.htm

Here's a guide for the 99 which is a very similar boat with the thick mast 
cross-section  / no runners:  
http://www.doylesails.com/downloads/CC99TuningGuide.pdf

-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, Georgia

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 12:03:16 -0400
From: David Knecht 
To: dwight veinot , CnC CnC 
discussion list
 
Subject: Re: Stus-List rig tuning
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Dwight- Now I am even more confused, but need to get back to the boat 
to confirm my recollection.  As I remember it, when the backstay has no 
added tension, the roller furler track is quite slack and can be flopped 
around easily by hand.  I will measure it this weekend to see how much 
flop.  So I am having a hard time imagining how this tension could set the 
mast rake.  On my previous 34, the mast base had wood blocks to move 
fore-aft and the deck had wood blocks to move fore aft and I thought that 
set the basal rake.   The 34+ has the mast base under the table and 
flooring and I have yet to take everything out to get to it and see what 
is there.  I also have not yet checked basic rake by hanging something 
from the halyard.  I will do that as well.  I don?t think the deck has 
blocks for positioning so maybe that suggests your idea that rake is set 
by the forestay. But if there is not much tension on the forestay at rest, 
it doesn?t seem to be doing much.  If it were reall!
 y tight, you wouldn?t get much effect of tensioning the backstay with a 
masthead rig. So is the primary goal and effect of tensioning the backstay 
to put tension on the headstay to reduce curvature, or to put bend in the 
mast to flatten and reduce mainsail power. Dave
Regards
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Re: Stus-List Quick question re: putting gates in lifelines

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

West Marine's rigging shop can do it all for you and they do a nice job of it.

Bob

On Apr 30, 2015, at 1:15 PM, Barbara Hickson Fellers via CnC-List wrote:

>  Hi All, 
> I just found out from my 84 yr old mom whose otherwise healthy as a horse, 
> that she has declined invitations to sail because its hard for her to get 
> over the lifeline without losing her balance.  So...gates are in order asap!  
> The upper lifeline is larger than the lower (probably 3/16" and 1/8" but have 
> not measured precisely yet) and they are both vinyl coated.  They have closed 
> body adjusters at both bow and stern pulpits.  Question:  is there any reason 
> I cannot install a gate using the existing lifeline (which is in good shape) 
> by loosening up the adjusters, cutting the lifeline where needed at the gate 
> stanchions and installing the hardware, then tightening adjusters to fit?  
> Existing hardware is all machine swaged and I'm going with hand swaged 
> fittings for the gates (if I can find a big swaging tool :-o ).  Am I missing 
> something?  Trying to get this done for a Mother's Day sail and brunch on the 
> boat.  I don't think this would be too hard to get done right, but you know 
> how those "little" boat projects go...  Thanks,
> Barbara Hickson Fellers
> C & C 33-1  Flight Risk
> Charleston, SC  
>  
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 

Bob Boyer
S/V Rainy Days (1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230)
email: dainyr...@icloud.com
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
messing about in boats." --Kenneth Grahame

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Stus-List Quick question re: putting gates in lifelines

[Barbara Hickson Fellers via CnC-List]

 Hi All,  I just found out from my 84 yr old mom whose otherwise healthy as a 
horse, that she has declined invitations to sail because its hard for her to 
get over the lifeline without losing her balance.  So...gates are in order 
asap!  The upper lifeline is larger than the lower (probably 3/16" and 1/8" but 
have not measured precisely yet) and they are both vinyl coated.  They have 
closed body adjusters at both bow and stern pulpits.  Question:  is there any 
reason I cannot install a gate using the existing lifeline (which is in good 
shape) by loosening up the adjusters, cutting the lifeline where needed at the 
gate stanchions and installing the hardware, then tightening adjusters to fit?  
Existing hardware is all machine swaged and I'm going with hand swaged fittings 
for the gates (if I can find a big swaging tool :-o ).  Am I missing something? 
 Trying to get this done for a Mother's Day sail and brunch on the boat.  I 
don't think this would be too hard to get done right, but you know how those 
"little" boat projects go...  Thanks,Barbara Hickson FellersC & C 33-1  Flight 
RiskCharleston, SC  
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Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 111, Issue 64

[Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List]

Hi Dave, 

The 34+ mast base is pretty much fixed.  You adjust the rake by a 
combination of forestay and backstay tension (Base backstay tension) and 
all should be fairly tight.  If your forestay foil is flopping around 
(More than about 8-12 inches overall when you lean on it which is "loose" 
setting for light air)  you have 2 potential issues:  1 your furler may 
not work correctly 2) You're diminishing the adjustable backstay's ability 
effectively do it's job of bending the mast to flatten the main close 
hauled and  / or help in controlling heel. 

There's a guide on the C&C site here: 
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/rod_rig_tuning.htm

Here's a guide for the 99 which is a very similar boat with the thick mast 
cross-section  / no runners:  
http://www.doylesails.com/downloads/CC99TuningGuide.pdf

-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, Georgia

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 12:03:16 -0400
From: David Knecht 
To: dwight veinot , CnC CnC 
discussion list
 
Subject: Re: Stus-List rig tuning
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Dwight- Now I am even more confused, but need to get back to the boat 
to confirm my recollection.  As I remember it, when the backstay has no 
added tension, the roller furler track is quite slack and can be flopped 
around easily by hand.  I will measure it this weekend to see how much 
flop.  So I am having a hard time imagining how this tension could set the 
mast rake.  On my previous 34, the mast base had wood blocks to move 
fore-aft and the deck had wood blocks to move fore aft and I thought that 
set the basal rake.   The 34+ has the mast base under the table and 
flooring and I have yet to take everything out to get to it and see what 
is there.  I also have not yet checked basic rake by hanging something 
from the halyard.  I will do that as well.  I don?t think the deck has 
blocks for positioning so maybe that suggests your idea that rake is set 
by the forestay. But if there is not much tension on the forestay at rest, 
it doesn?t seem to be doing much.  If it were reall!
 y tight, you wouldn?t get much effect of tensioning the backstay with a 
masthead rig. So is the primary goal and effect of tensioning the backstay 
to put tension on the headstay to reduce curvature, or to put bend in the 
mast to flatten and reduce mainsail power. Dave
Regards



François Rivard
 4111 Northside Pkwy, Nw

Big Data Black Belt
 Atlanta, 30327-3015
IBM Sales & Distribution, Software Sales
 Usa
Mobile:
770-639-0429
 

e-mail:
jfriv...@us.ibm.com
 

 
 
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger Question

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Josh — you’re correct, thanks for the clarification.  The main negative bus 
needs to be on the “Load” side of the shunt, if you have one installed.  And 
Joel: the negative side of all DC systems in the boat should terminate at one 
point.  This should include batteries (or banks of them), the DC panel, the 
engine block, charging systems; and even the ground for the AC system (green 
wire only).

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Apr 30, 2015, at 11:07 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List  
wrote:

> Edd, if you have a current shunt (which you do if you use your Link 2000) it 
> is normally on the ground wire.  You should make sure all you charging 
> sources go to the load side, not the battery side, of the shunt.

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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger Question

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Edd, if you have a current shunt (which you do if you use your Link 2000)
it is normally on the ground wire.  You should make sure all you charging
sources go to the load side, not the battery side, of the shunt.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Apr 30, 2015 11:56 AM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Joel,
>
> My goal is to charge the house bank (so I'd connect it to the house bank
> positive bus bar). My ground is common to all batteries so I wanted to make
> sure I'd still charge the house (the ACR will automatically charge the
> engine battery anyway).
>
> Love this list.
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 30, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Fred,
>
> If it goes to the bus bars won't it charge all batteries on the live
> circuit, not a single battery?
>
> Not sure if that is Edd's goal.
>
> Joel
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Edd -- the negative side of the charger output can go straight to the
>> main negative bus bar; this should have a large conductor straight to the
>> negative sides of both the house and start banks.  DO NOT just grab any
>> local ground point, as the connection from it to the battery may not be
>> sound; or it may not be adequately sized for the charger current.  The
>> positive should go to the house positive bar or straight to the battery,
>> through an appropriately-sized fuse or breaker.
>>
>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>>   Launching next Tuesday!   :^)
>>
>> On Apr 30, 2015, at 10:47 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Listers,
>>
>> For a shore-powered battery charger, do the red and black wires need to
>> run to the battery or can the red run to the battery and the black to any
>> common ground on the boat?
>>
>> In other words, does the black need to connect directly to the negative
>> terminal on the battery?
>>
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Edd
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Email address:
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>> bottom of page at:
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Joel
> 301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List rig tuning

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

Hi Dwight- Now I am even more confused, but need to get back to the boat to 
confirm my recollection.  As I remember it, when the backstay has no added 
tension, the roller furler track is quite slack and can be flopped around 
easily by hand.  I will measure it this weekend to see how much flop.  So I am 
having a hard time imagining how this tension could set the mast rake.  On my 
previous 34, the mast base had wood blocks to move fore-aft and the deck had 
wood blocks to move fore aft and I thought that set the basal rake.   The 34+ 
has the mast base under the table and flooring and I have yet to take 
everything out to get to it and see what is there.  I also have not yet checked 
basic rake by hanging something from the halyard.  I will do that as well.  I 
don’t think the deck has blocks for positioning so maybe that suggests your 
idea that rake is set by the forestay. But if there is not much tension on the 
forestay at rest, it doesn’t seem to be doing much.  If it were really tight, 
you wouldn’t get much effect of tensioning the backstay with a masthead rig. So 
is the primary goal and effect of tensioning the backstay to put tension on the 
headstay to reduce curvature, or to put bend in the mast to flatten and reduce 
mainsail power. Dave

> On Apr 29, 2015, at 8:15 AM, dwight veinot  wrote:
> 
> David
> 
> 
> Initial set on the forestay tension should give some aft rake on the mast.  
> In calm waters and after you have the mast plumb, hang a weight (say 5-10 
> lbs) on the main halyard just above the boom...that weight should hang out 
> anywhere from 6 inches to a foot aft of the mast...adjust forestay tension so 
> you get something like that before applying additional back stay tension. 
> then you can apply back stay tension to induce more aft rake and if you have 
> a gage on your backstay adjuster you can use that to see how rake varies with 
> tension or you can do as Dennis described for what he does on Touche with a 
> calibrated batten...If your boat has a strong weather helm you may have too 
> much aft rake...you can achieve a lighter weather helm by relaxing the 
> forestay tension a bit
> 
> Dwight Veinot
> C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
> d.ve...@bellaliant.net 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 11:20 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> Hi Dennis- I realize that you would generally tighten the forestay with the 
> backstay as the wind increases.  However, that assumes some starting point of 
> how much sag there is with no backstay tension and it is that starting point 
> that I am unsure how to set. I am presuming that there can be such a thing as 
> too much sag because the forestay turnbuckle is set too loose.   Dave
> 
> On Apr 28, 2015, at 10:10 PM, Dennis C.  > wrote:
> 
>> Simple question.  Complex answer.
>> 
>> Look at the shape of the headsail.  Notably, the amount of sag in the luff.  
>> 
>> Forestay tension is primarily regulated by backstay tension.  There is no 
>> good guide for pounds of force.  Your headsail design and age, choice of 
>> sail (#1, #2, #3), rig tune, wind strength and sea state will influence 
>> forestay tension.
>> 
>> Forestay sag affects the depth of the headsail.  (Halyard or luff tension 
>> affects the position of maximum draft.)  Forestay sag also affects the angle 
>> of entry of the headsail.  In light air or leftover seas, increase sag (i.e. 
>> less tension.).  In flatter water and more breeze, decrease sag (more 
>> tension).  
>> 
>> On Touche' we don't look at the gauge on the hydraulic backstay adjuster.  
>> We have a dinghy batten taped to the adjuster.  The batten is marked with 
>> different color tapes.  We use it as a general guide to reproduce tension 
>> based on our experience with the boat and our observation of the forestay 
>> and headsail shape.  Our general guidelines are:
>> 
>> Green - light air or waves
>> Yellow - moderate breeze, some waves
>> Red - heavy breeze or flatter waters
>> Black - death, Holy Crap!  Beam us up, Scotty!  We're going to die!
>> 
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>> 
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 7:33 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>> Speaking of forestay, what is the proper way to determine the correct 
>> forestay tension?Dave
>> 
>> On Apr 28, 2015, at 7:14 PM, Tim Goodyear via CnC-List 
>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Robert,
>>> 
>>> I think the only things missing from your setup numbers are rake and 
>>> pre-bend.  Our forestay length is also very easy to adjust (not that I do 
>>> often).
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Tim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Apr 28, 2015, at 4:01 PM, robert via CnC-List >> > wrote:
>>> 
 What Dwight is referencing is a race we did with a Kirby 25 and were 
 embarrassed on the race course.  And we were especially bad on starboard 
 tack..

Re: Stus-List Battery Charger Question

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Joel,

My goal is to charge the house bank (so I’d connect it to the house bank 
positive bus bar). My ground is common to all batteries so I wanted to make 
sure I’d still charge the house (the ACR will automatically charge the engine 
battery anyway). 

Love this list. 

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 













> On Apr 30, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Fred,
> 
> If it goes to the bus bars won't it charge all batteries on the live circuit, 
> not a single battery?
> 
> Not sure if that is Edd's goal.
> 
> Joel
> 
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> Hi, Edd — the negative side of the charger output can go straight to the main 
> negative bus bar; this should have a large conductor straight to the negative 
> sides of both the house and start banks.  DO NOT just grab any local ground 
> point, as the connection from it to the battery may not be sound; or it may 
> not be adequately sized for the charger current.  The positive should go to 
> the house positive bar or straight to the battery, through an 
> appropriately-sized fuse or breaker.
> 
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(   
> Launching next Tuesday!   :^)
> 
> On Apr 30, 2015, at 10:47 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Listers,
>> 
>> For a shore-powered battery charger, do the red and black wires need to run 
>> to the battery or can the red run to the battery and the black to any common 
>> ground on the boat? 
>> 
>> In other words, does the black need to connect directly to the negative 
>> terminal on the battery? 
>> 
>> 
>> All the best,
>> 
>> Edd
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Email address:
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> of page at:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Joel 
> 301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger Question

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Fred,

If it goes to the bus bars won't it charge all batteries on the live
circuit, not a single battery?

Not sure if that is Edd's goal.

Joel

On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi, Edd — the negative side of the charger output can go straight to the
> main negative bus bar; this should have a large conductor straight to the
> negative sides of both the house and start banks.  DO NOT just grab any
> local ground point, as the connection from it to the battery may not be
> sound; or it may not be adequately sized for the charger current.  The
> positive should go to the house positive bar or straight to the battery,
> through an appropriately-sized fuse or breaker.
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
> Launching next Tuesday!   :^)
>
> On Apr 30, 2015, at 10:47 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Listers,
>
> For a shore-powered battery charger, do the red and black wires need to
> run to the battery or can the red run to the battery and the black to any
> common ground on the boat?
>
> In other words, does the black need to connect directly to the negative
> terminal on the battery?
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
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> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger Question

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Fred,

That’s what I thought. An installation manual threw me for a few. . . . 

Thanks for the clarification. 

Sheesh — more fuses… more fuses… 

I’m now going to call you Fred “The Fuse-Man” Street


All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 













> On Apr 30, 2015, at 11:51 AM, Frederick G Street  wrote:
> 
> Hi, Edd — the negative side of the charger output can go straight to the main 
> negative bus bar; this should have a large conductor straight to the negative 
> sides of both the house and start banks.  DO NOT just grab any local ground 
> point, as the connection from it to the battery may not be sound; or it may 
> not be adequately sized for the charger current.  The positive should go to 
> the house positive bar or straight to the battery, through an 
> appropriately-sized fuse or breaker.
> 
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(   
> Launching next Tuesday!   :^)
> 
> On Apr 30, 2015, at 10:47 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Listers,
>> 
>> For a shore-powered battery charger, do the red and black wires need to run 
>> to the battery or can the red run to the battery and the black to any common 
>> ground on the boat? 
>> 
>> In other words, does the black need to connect directly to the negative 
>> terminal on the battery? 
>> 
>> 
>> All the best,
>> 
>> Edd
> 

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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger Question

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Hi, Edd — the negative side of the charger output can go straight to the main 
negative bus bar; this should have a large conductor straight to the negative 
sides of both the house and start banks.  DO NOT just grab any local ground 
point, as the connection from it to the battery may not be sound; or it may not 
be adequately sized for the charger current.  The positive should go to the 
house positive bar or straight to the battery, through an appropriately-sized 
fuse or breaker.

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(   
Launching next Tuesday!   :^)

On Apr 30, 2015, at 10:47 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List  
wrote:

> Listers,
> 
> For a shore-powered battery charger, do the red and black wires need to run 
> to the battery or can the red run to the battery and the black to any common 
> ground on the boat? 
> 
> In other words, does the black need to connect directly to the negative 
> terminal on the battery? 
> 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Edd

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Stus-List Battery Charger Question

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Listers,

For a shore-powered battery charger, do the red and black wires need to run to 
the battery or can the red run to the battery and the black to any common 
ground on the boat? 

In other words, does the black need to connect directly to the negative 
terminal on the battery? 


All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 













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Re: Stus-List Keel bolt moving

[Michael Crombie via CnC-List]

Hi Derek,

I would concur with the others that have suggested a survey.  On my 33, the 
mast had pushed the cabin sole down a lot and I had a small leak in my bilge.  
I kept futzing around with things myself until I had a proper survey done this 
past fall. The surveyor sent me straight to Bristol Marine where they did an 
outstanding job of reinforcing the mast step and redoing an old DIY grounding 
repair job from a PO.  Needless to say, I won't be buying new sails this 
summer, but Atacama is better than new.

Mike
Atacama 33 mk ii
Toronto
Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.
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Re: Stus-List rig tuning

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi David,

If I may try to clarify things a bit here... 
substitute "forestay length" for "forestay tension" in Dwight's message below.


As others have pointed out (Dennis' message is a 
good guide)  forestay tension is more or less 
adjusted for sailing (or APPARENT wind) conditions.


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

Today's activity is a pre-cruise boat scrub and 
make sure the refrig still works. Although the 
bilge is still a nice temperature to cool pale ale, so no distress there.

'Round Thetis Island race next weekend.

At 05:15 AM 29/04/2015, you wrote:

David


Initial set on the forestay tension should give 
some aft rake on the mast.  In calm waters and 
after you have the mast plumb, hang a weight 
(say 5-10 lbs) on the main halyard just above 
the boom...that weight should hang out anywhere 
from 6 inches to a foot aft of the mast...adjust 
forestay tension so you get something like that 
before applying additional back stay tension. 
then you can apply back stay tension to induce 
more aft rake and if you have a gage on your 
backstay adjuster you can use that to see how 
rake varies with tension or you can do as Dennis 
described for what he does on Touche with a 
calibrated batten...If your boat has a strong 
weather helm you may have too much aft 
rake...you can achieve a lighter weather helm by 
relaxing the forestay tension a bit


Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net


On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 11:20 PM, David Knecht 
via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
Hi Dennis- I realize that you would generally 
tighten the forestay with the backstay as the 
wind increases.  However, that assumes some 
starting point of how much sag there is with no 
backstay tension and it is that starting point 
that I am unsure how to set. I am presuming that 
there can be such a thing as too much sag 
because the forestay turnbuckle is set too loose. Â  Dave


On Apr 28, 2015, at 10:10 PM, Dennis C. 
<capt...@gmail.com> wrote:



Simple question.  Complex answer.

Look at the shape of the headsail.  Notably, 
the amount of sag in the luff.Â


Forestay tension is primarily regulated by 
backstay tension.  There is no good guide for 
pounds of force.  Your headsail design and 
age, choice of sail (#1, #2, #3), rig tune, 
wind strength and sea state will influence forestay tension.


Forestay sag affects the depth of the 
headsail.  (Halyard or luff tension affects 
the position of maximum draft.)Â  Forestay sag 
also affects the angle of entry of the 
headsail.  In light air or leftover seas, 
increase sag (i.e. less tension.).  In flatter 
water and more breeze, decrease sag (more tension).Â


On Touche' we don't look at the gauge on the 
hydraulic backstay adjuster.  We have a dinghy 
batten taped to the adjuster.  The batten is 
marked with different color tapes.  We use it 
as a general guide to reproduce tension based 
on our experience with the boat and our 
observation of the forestay and headsail shape.  Our general guidelines are:


Green - light air or waves
Yellow - moderate breeze, some waves
Red - heavy breeze or flatter waters
Black - death, Holy Crap!  Beam us up, Scotty!  We're going to die!

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 7:33 PM, David Knecht 
via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
Speaking of forestay, what is the proper way to 
determine the correct forestay tension? Â  Â Dave


On Apr 28, 2015, at 7:14 PM, Tim Goodyear via 
CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:



Robert,

I think the only things missing from your 
setup numbers are rake and pre-bend.  Our 
forestay length is also very easy to adjust (not that I do often).


Thanks,

Tim


On Apr 28, 2015, at 4:01 PM, robert via 
CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:


What Dwight is referencing is a race we did 
with a Kirby 25 and were embarrassed on the 
race course.  And we were especially bad on 
starboard tackwe kept wondering all day 
what was wrongalmost blaming one another 
for our poor performance, e.g. you can't be 
pointing high enough, you can't have my sails 
trimmed.    After the race, first we 
discovered the shroud turnbuckles were not 
pinned.I thought they were because I 
thought I pinned them after I tensioned rig 
tension.  Dwight discovered by applying 
Pythagorean's theorem that the top of the 
mast was out of column by 18" to port.  Any 
wonder why the boat was not performing the way it/we previously did.


That never happened a second time!

The 32's rig is set at cap shrouds 1,300 
lbs.,  lowers 1,200,  intermediates 500 
lbs.,  backstay at rest 1,000 
lbs.,  babystay 600 lbs..haven't 
measured the headstay tension but it is about 
4" to 6"Â  bowed with a 135% under power. Â 
  And since

Stus-List Keel bolt moving

[Derek McLeod via CnC-List]

Hi,

I posted yesterday about some surface cracks in the hull of my 1983 C&C 29-2 
and those are still a concern, however a much bigger issue presented itself.

The mast step is off and I am fabricating an aluminum replacement. I noticed 
there is a dip in the fiberglass around the forward keel bolt. I cleaned up the 
area including old caulking around the keel bolt. While doing so, I noticed the 
bolt could be easily wiggled from side to side. I know the forward keel bolt is 
fairly long according to the diagram in the manual, but I wouldn't think I 
should be able to budge a 3/4" diameter bolt. The hole the bolt is in is 
approx. 1 1/4" diameter so there is room around it. 

Does anyone know what structure is in the stringer around that bolt? The 
diagram shows a big empty space...

I'm guessing I may have to drop the keel and have that bolt replaced. 
Fortunately, Mars Keel is only an hour away. 

Any guidelines for reattaching the keel?

Derek McLeod
C&C 29-2
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