Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and

[Jerome Tauber via CnC-List]

Note also that Open CPN software is only available for Android tablets at this 
time, not IPad.  Jerry J&J

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 21, 2016, at 5:31 PM, Patrick Davin via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Oops - I didn't mean to turn this into an Apple vs Android debate! : ) But I 
> can't resist responding to a few of your points: 
> 
> - It's not true that on Android you're locked in to one app store. There are 
> alternatives (most well-known of which is Amazon's app store): 
> https://www.androidpit.com/best-google-play-store-alternative-app-stores
> Also Android phones can be easily unlocked and you can install any app 
> package that you wish, downloaded from the Internet without any app store (at 
> your own risk). Apple doesn't allow that to be done easily (you need to 
> "jailbreak" it), and their app store is also more restrictive of app 
> approvals. 
> 
> - Hardware lock-in - maybe we have different definitions of "lock in", but 
> what I meant could be better phrased as "intentionally decreased hardware 
> intercompatibility." I can't power/charge an iphone with a USB 2.0 or 3.0 
> cable (without some kind of adapter), and those are industry wide open 
> standards. 
> 
> So, yes, Apple isn't the same as Raymarine (and objectively not as bad), but 
> both have good examples of similar efforts made to create a closed ecosystem.
> 
> And I am typing this on a MacBook Air. So I'm not a complete Mac hater. : )
> 
>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 7:32 PM,  wrote:
>> From: Stevan Plavsa 
>> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
>> Cc: 
>> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 21:37:20 -0400
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and
>> Patrick, I have to chime in for Apple here - and not speaking to the iPhone 
>> 7 because I haven't been paying attention and I'm an Android guy, but there 
>> is no "hardware lock in" with Apple. "Ecosystem" lock in, absolutely. You 
>> get the iPhone so you're locked to their App store - yes. This is also true 
>> for Android. There are benefits and there are drawbacks, but hardware lock 
>> in - no. They use all the same ports everyone else uses these days. I'm a 
>> Windows, Linux and Mac guy ... Someone wants to take my macbook? - from my 
>> cold dead hands!
>> 
>> The XPS laptops and that come close in industrial design these days - they 
>> have that nice edge display. But it's still Windows and well, Windows was my 
>> first, but it's a total kludge fest compared to the UI in OSX. I use both, 
>> every day and once upon a time, back in the OS9 days, I made fun of the mac 
>> guys. 
>> 
>> Steve
>> Suhana, C&C 32
>> Toronto
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
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Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and

[Patrick Davin via CnC-List]

Oops - I didn't mean to turn this into an Apple vs Android debate! : ) But
I can't resist responding to a few of your points:

- It's not true that on Android you're locked in to one app store. There
are alternatives (most well-known of which is Amazon's app store):
https://www.androidpit.com/best-google-play-store-alternative-app-stores
Also Android phones can be easily unlocked and you can install any app
package that you wish, downloaded from the Internet without any app store
(at your own risk). Apple doesn't allow that to be done easily (you need to
"jailbreak" it), and their app store is also more restrictive of app
approvals.

- Hardware lock-in - maybe we have different definitions of "lock in", but
what I meant could be better phrased as "intentionally decreased hardware
intercompatibility." I can't power/charge an iphone with a USB 2.0 or 3.0
cable (without some kind of adapter), and those are industry wide open
standards.

So, yes, Apple isn't the same as Raymarine (and objectively not as bad),
but both have good examples of similar efforts made to create a closed
ecosystem.

And I am typing this on a MacBook Air. So I'm not a complete Mac hater. : )

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 7:32 PM,  wrote:

> From: Stevan Plavsa 
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
> Cc:
> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 21:37:20 -0400
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and
> Patrick, I have to chime in for Apple here - and not speaking to the
> iPhone 7 because I haven't been paying attention and I'm an Android guy,
> but there is no "hardware lock in" with Apple. "Ecosystem" lock in,
> absolutely. You get the iPhone so you're locked to their App store - yes.
> This is also true for Android. There are benefits and there are drawbacks,
> but hardware lock in - no. They use all the same ports everyone else uses
> these days. I'm a Windows, Linux and Mac guy ... Someone wants to take my
> macbook? - from my cold dead hands!
>
> The XPS laptops and that come close in industrial design these days - they
> have that nice edge display. But it's still Windows and well, Windows was
> my first, but it's a total kludge fest compared to the UI in OSX. I use
> both, every day and once upon a time, back in the OS9 days, I made fun of
> the mac guys.
>
> Steve
> Suhana, C&C 32
> Toronto
>
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Stus-List Topside paint

[Alan Zuas via CnC-List]

Hi, 

I have a few scratches on my boat and I wanted to use touch up paint as it is 
unsightly right now.  The boat is a maroon (dark red) C&C 30 1976. Does anyone 
know how I can find the original paint or the closest match?
Thank you,Ali 
C&C 30 1976Seattle, WA
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Re: Stus-List Sailing Racing courses in BVI

[Bruno Lachance via CnC-List]

There is a lot of companies offering places for racing in the BVI Spring 
regatta, some offer one or two days practice onboard prior to the regatta to 
get familiar with the boat and the crew.


It's not really a "racing school", where you will learn stuff like how to get a 
good start, and match racing tactics, but it is a good intro to racing on 
bigger boats. Imagine doing that with a bunch on friends and race in the 
Carribean on something else than a bareboat! these boats are usually fairly 
competitive with competent skippers.


I've done the BVI spring regatta in 2012 and the Heineken in st-Maarteen in 
2013. Both times on private boats in the spin class. It is really a lot of fun. 
Hard to beat.


Bruno Lachance

Bécassine, 33 mkII

New-Richmond, Qc.



De : CnC-List  de la part de Chuck Gilchrest via 
CnC-List 
Envoyé : 21 septembre 2016 20:13
À : cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc : Chuck Gilchrest
Objet : Re: Stus-List Sailing Racing courses in BVI


Offshore Sailing School in the BVI has this starting this December.

http://www.sailingworld.com/new-racing-clinic-by-offshore-sailing-school?dom=rss-default&src=syn

[http://www.sailingworld.com/sites/sailingworld.com/files/styles/medium_1x_/public/images/2016/08/3.1a_scrubisland_slide_12_learning_to_sail_700x465.jpg?itok=-4GATDqW]

New Racing Clinic by Offshore Sailing 
School
www.sailingworld.com
Offshore Sailing School will host a new racing course in the BVI this December.



Will be taught in Colgate 26's.  I don't know of any "schools" outside of 
Oakcliff that offer racing instruction in any boats approaching 40' or more.  
Not sure it ticks all the boxes, but it is a start..

Chuck Gilchrest

S/V Half Magic

1983 LF 35

Padanaram, MA



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 3:03 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joel Aronson 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sailing Racing courses in BVI



>From the silence there must be a business opportunity there!



I think Colgate and possibly JWorld run programs in Florida.



Joel



On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Pat MacDonald via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Hi
A number of us in Canada like to head to the BVI for the winter to do some
sailing.  We are also avid racers and want to expand our racing skills by
taking some racing courses in keel boats that are at least 40+ '.  when
completed we may even want to participate in the Spring BVI Regatta held
each year in the BVI.
Does anyone know of a good racing school in the BVI?
All I can find is Rob Swain sailing School that seemed to have offered this
kind of course back in 2014.  Has anyone worked with the Swain course.
Opinions?
Thanks
Getting ready for winter
pat


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--

Joel
301 541 8551
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cnc-list@cnc-list.com

[G Collins via CnC-List]

Hi Bob

That is not my experience, I've got a similar system, but an EV 200 pilot.  My 
systems are bridged by daisy-chaining one Triton display to a i70 display, the 
i70 is then daisy-chained to the p70, which connects to the Seatalk II 
backbone.  Works perfectly (knock on wood).  I must have done the voodoo 
incantations properly.

I would suspect it is a more robust system the way you have done it.

Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C&C 35-III #11

On 2016-09-21 9:01 AM, Bob Hickson via CnC-List wrote:
I recently bought a Raymarine EVO 100 autopilot to add to my existing B&G 
Triton speed, depth, wind instruments. The EVO autohelm integrated with no 
issues ... it displays wind speed and direction and it will sail to an apparent 
wind angle (even triggers the alarm if there is a wind shift). I spent hours 
with both B&G and Raymarine tech support over the connection issue. The 
Raymarine and B&G "nema 2000" backbone cables must be connected "end to end". 
To achieve this you must cut one end off the Raymarine backbone cable and 
install a Maretron connector ($20) that will plug into the B&G backbone cable. 
The connector is a bit fiddly with tiny setscrews but it works perfectly and 
the 2 systems talk to each other.


Bob Hickson, P. ENG.,
Sent from Samsung Mobile



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Re: Stus-List (no subject)

[Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List]

Dave,

Thanks for the info.  I have my new Raymarine EV-100 autopilot sitting 
in a box at home waiting to be installed - I too got the email 
indicating there was a wonderful software upgrade, with better course 
management etc etc etc.  I looked into the info far enough to see that I 
didn't have the right gear to use the update and gave up.


In my case the boat only has speed and depth (from the 80's) -- I 
figured that Raymarine is the most likely ecosystem as I add future gear 
- so the Raymarine auto pilot made sense.


I agree with the frustration of proprietary systems - but it seems we 
don't learn these issues until we've already paid to play.  One thing 
I've learned from other listers here is that I'm better off with one 
manufacturer rather than trying to mate together systems.



Mark


There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana

On 2016-09-20 11:44 PM, Dave via CnC-List wrote:

Graham/all - to be clear, to me the issue is not so much being able to update 
one Manufacturer's firmware from another's device, it's about not being able to 
update it at all, without a MFD  (hence the 'accessories to MFD subject line'). 
 Raymarine could easily have elected to permit updates by some other means at 
the network level or at the device, but didn't.

Read the manual before buying?  Just dug them out and here's  what it says in 
my pristine p70 autopilot controller manual:

'- software revision
Raymarine regularly updates product software to add new features and improve 
existing functionality.  This document covers lighthouse version 3.xx which 
should be used in conjunction with ev... Blah blah
Check the raymarine website to ensure you have the latest software and user 
manuals.'

That's all it says, and I'm a bit surprised.  They address that software 
updates  are part of ownership, and (rightly) offer and encourage the happy new 
autopilot purchaser to update their software, even helpfully directing them to 
the website.(Sounds great, here's my money!). One minor detail seems to 
have been omitted...

It been an interesting topic to explore, with interesting perspectives.   I'll  
figure out a way to sort it.   I like the raymarine instruments and their 
people were accessible and courteous.  The more I dig into it though, the more 
convinced I am that their approach to this is unethical, irrespective of how 
one might feel about their broader strategy.   (The manual ices it.). Anyway, 
now we know, as will others who read the discussion.

I didn't hate them, but I'm starting to.

Mic drop... ;-)

Dave




Message: 3
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2016 00:02:16 +
From: G Collins 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and
autopilot business!
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"


You Ray haters kill me...   just kidding!  But sometimes it pays to read
the manual before you buy, and they are all available online these days.

That Garmin thing is a cool solution, I like it.  The Navico (B&G)
version doesn't seem to be available anywhere, so that may have been a
possible route to firmware updates but no longer...

I guess my conclusion early on was to get a MDF that goes with the big
electronics on the boat, so my a75 MDF can update my EV200 autopilot.
And IMHO it makes sense to have the same brand of anyway, so that you
are sure they will work together as best they can.  My wind/speed/depth
system, since it is B&G, is essentially orphaned.  I'm not so concerned
with that.  And I am quite happy with my Raymarine gear, whereas I've
had two Triton displays malfunction on me in the same 3 seasons.

As to why you can't update one companies gear from another companies
MDF, I can't see any company signing up for that - say I update my B&G
firmware over my Ray MDF, and next thing my Triton displays are bricks -
who do I call to get it resolved? That would not be a fun day.

Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C&C 35-III #11


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Re: Stus-List Sailing Racing courses in BVI

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

Offshore Sailing School in the BVI has this starting this December.

http://www.sailingworld.com/new-racing-clinic-by-offshore-sailing-school?dom=rss-default
 

 &src=syn

Will be taught in Colgate 26’s.  I don’t know of any “schools” outside of 
Oakcliff that offer racing instruction in any boats approaching 40’ or more.  
Not sure it ticks all the boxes, but it is a start..

Chuck Gilchrest

S/V Half Magic

1983 LF 35

Padanaram, MA

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 3:03 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joel Aronson 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sailing Racing courses in BVI

 

>From the silence there must be a business opportunity there!

 

I think Colgate and possibly JWorld run programs in Florida.

 

Joel

 

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Pat MacDonald via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:


Hi
A number of us in Canada like to head to the BVI for the winter to do some
sailing.  We are also avid racers and want to expand our racing skills by
taking some racing courses in keel boats that are at least 40+ '.  when
completed we may even want to participate in the Spring BVI Regatta held
each year in the BVI.
Does anyone know of a good racing school in the BVI?
All I can find is Rob Swain sailing School that seemed to have offered this
kind of course back in 2014.  Has anyone worked with the Swain course.
Opinions?
Thanks
Getting ready for winter
pat


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-- 

Joel 
301 541 8551

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Re: Stus-List Sailing instrument updating

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

nothing that would not buff out...

Apparently, it is a fairly popular sport. There are multiple videos of a 
Carnival Cruise ship doing a similar manoeuvre in Italy at the end of August 
(e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmjuR-BhCug)

Marek 
From: William Hall via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 09:44
To: cnc-list 
Cc: William Hall 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sailing instrument updating

Dennis, 
One of my spies watched your last attempt. It looks like you've got a ways to 
go. Let us know when you've made more progress. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-_Tg13ozOU 

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Re: Stus-List Sailing Racing courses in BVI

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

>From the silence there must be a business opportunity there!

I think Colgate and possibly JWorld run programs in Florida.

Joel

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Pat MacDonald via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
> Hi
> A number of us in Canada like to head to the BVI for the winter to do some
> sailing.  We are also avid racers and want to expand our racing skills by
> taking some racing courses in keel boats that are at least 40+ '.  when
> completed we may even want to participate in the Spring BVI Regatta held
> each year in the BVI.
> Does anyone know of a good racing school in the BVI?
> All I can find is Rob Swain sailing School that seemed to have offered this
> kind of course back in 2014.  Has anyone worked with the Swain course.
> Opinions?
> Thanks
> Getting ready for winter
> pat
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>



-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Stus-List Prop Shaft Coupling

[Stephen Thorne via CnC-List]

Bill,

We had same issue 300 nm offshore when someone started engine in reverse.  
Fortunately we didn't loose the shaft & boat.

Solution double hex screw AND drilling dimple further into shaft.

Stephen Thorne
Dejavu' 
34+

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 20, 2016, at 6:32 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
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>cnc-list@cnc-list.com
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> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1.  Prop Shaft coupling (wwadjo...@aol.com)
>   2. Re:  Prop Shaft coupling (Della Barba, Joe)
>   3. Re:  Prop Shaft coupling (Steve Staten)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 16:17:21 -0400
> From: wwadjo...@aol.com
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List Prop Shaft coupling
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 20:23:50 +
> From: "Della Barba, Joe" 
> To: "'cnc-list@cnc-list.com'" 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Prop Shaft coupling
> Message-ID:
><47f1e615013048868e06bbfbbdaeb...@nsc-dag3-06.ba.ad.ssa.gov>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> One boat that was forever doing this turned out to have a bad motor mount. 
> Might want to check that?
> Joe
> Coquina
> 
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of William 
> Walker via CnC-List
> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 16:17
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: wwadjo...@aol.com
> Subject: Stus-List Prop Shaft coupling
> 
> 
> Some may remember that around mid summer I posted that my prop shaft had 
> pulled out of coupling.  Mine has two bolts which go through coupling and 
> into small dimples drilled into shaft.  They were wired in and over time the 
> ends had worn off and allowed shaft to pull out when reversed was applied to 
> prop.  Some on list checked and had similar problems.  I was surprised so many
> Well, on haul out I discover it has happened again, with the new bolts.  
> Haven't pulled them yet to see, but shaft pulled enough to show key and the 
> dimples, still in place.
> No excessive vibration or anything.
> Bolts still appear tight.
> Thinking maybe of going with two set screws in each hole, one snugged, 
> another on top.
> Love to hear thoughts from listers with some experience.
> Bill Walker
> Evening Star
> CNC 36
> Pentwater, Michigan
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 17:32:07 -0500
> From: Steve Staten 
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Prop Shaft coupling
> Message-ID:
>
> <84EF6C7F5B88DF41B6631E309DAC6A2302651B4ABC16@CNEXCH-MAIL1.cnmain.cherokee.local>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Five years ago, on one of my first solo sails on C?est La Vie, I allowed a 
> jib sheet to get overboard as I was motoring into the drowned ravine that is 
> the marina, here on the reservoir. I was focused on maintaining course. The 
> ravine is maybe 30 meters narrow, lined with expensive boats. The sheet and 
> propeller became enamored of each other and in taking the relationship to the 
> next level (the way snakes do), they managed to pull the propeller shaft free 
> from the coupling and the Westerbeke?s transmission. The coupling is a large 
> rubber donut about one inch thick and maybe eight inches in diameter. It was 
> all chewed up BUT the shaft bearing was not leaking. The boat glided to a 
> complete stop about 20 meters from the beginning of the dock.
> 
> I had not yet learned to scull so I dropped anchor and swam to shore with my 
> phone and wallet in a ziplock bag on top of one of those square floating seat 
> cushions pushed gently ahead of me.  It was a Sunday evening with no one 
> around and the sun going down behind the trees. The next day, I returned to 
> assess the damage. The temperature was in the mid-nineties (F) and the boat 
> was a fiberglass sweat lodge. The largest washers available managed to keep 
> enough of the torn parts of the coupler together in one piece to allow me to 
> restart the engine and ease into my slip.  I was not yet a lister here and 
> had NO idea how to replace the coupler.
> 
> In despair, I sea

Stus-List Sailing Racing courses in BVI

[Pat MacDonald via CnC-List]

Hi
A number of us in Canada like to head to the BVI for the winter to do some
sailing.  We are also avid racers and want to expand our racing skills by
taking some racing courses in keel boats that are at least 40+ '.  when
completed we may even want to participate in the Spring BVI Regatta held
each year in the BVI.
Does anyone know of a good racing school in the BVI?
All I can find is Rob Swain sailing School that seemed to have offered this
kind of course back in 2014.  Has anyone worked with the Swain course.
Opinions?
Thanks
Getting ready for winter
pat


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Re: Stus-List (no subject) -> Raymarine repair and firmware update experience

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

Dave,

A while back I noticed that my Raymarine SPX-5 autopilot did not have the most 
recent firmware, but at that time I did not rush to update as I had no 
mechanism, like you, to do so.  To me it was not a major issue as the autopilot 
was working fine.  I operated it as stand alone device which I would mainly use 
to maintain a course heading or to occasionally assist in tacking.   

During it’s 4th or 5th year of use (after warranty), I started having problems 
with the autopilot drifting off course, then failing to recalibrate, and 
finally not working at all.  I called Raymarine and a tech had me measure the 
resistance across several wires to check the compass and measure voltage at the 
wheel drive.  After doing so, a tech stated that the problem was with the 
course computer, and that I need to send it in for repair.   I sailed my 29 for 
another year without a working autopilot before removing it and selling the 
vessel after purchasing my Landfall 38.  

Shortly before splashing the LF38 after some refitting, I sent the autopilot 
computer to Raymarine to see how much it was going to cost to fix it.  Over the 
phone, I was told that it would be a minimum of $99 for out of warranty repair 
work.  About a week after sending it in, I started calling to inquire on the 
repair.   The customer rep. took my contact info and told me they would contact 
me with a day or so.  The very next day, the unit arrived via UPS fully 
repaired and with an updated firmware.  I was expecting a pricey repair charge, 
but the only cost to me was the original USPS shipping fee to Raymarine. 

In your case, If the p70 firmware update provide important fixes or new must 
have functionality, you could look into sending it to Raymarine for the 
updating.  My guess is that they will do it free of charge.  I know it is not 
ideal, but at least it’s an option.

I have to admit, it was mostly this experience with Raymarine that later led me 
to purchasing a Raymarine e7d chart plotter, a Ray depth transducer, and a Ray 
Speed/Log/Temp system over other brands.  And recently an EV-200 autopilot (but 
with the octopus 1212LAR12 linear drive). 


-
Paul E.
1981 C&C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

> On Sep 21, 2016, at 8:57 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Graham/all - to be clear, to me the issue is not so much being able to update 
> one Manufacturer's firmware from another's device, it's about not being able 
> to update it at all, without a MFD  (hence the 'accessories to MFD subject 
> line').  Raymarine could easily have elected to permit updates by some other 
> means at the network level or at the device, but didn't.  
> 
> Read the manual before buying?  Just dug them out and here's  what it says in 
> my pristine p70 autopilot controller manual:
> 
> '- software revision
> Raymarine regularly updates product software to add new features and improve 
> existing functionality.  This document covers lighthouse version 3.xx which 
> should be used in conjunction with ev... Blah blah 
> Check the raymarine website to ensure you have the latest software and user 
> manuals.'
> 
> That's all it says, and I'm a bit surprised.  They address that software 
> updates  are part of ownership, and (rightly) offer and encourage the happy 
> new autopilot purchaser to update their software, even helpfully directing 
> them to the website.(Sounds great, here's my money!). One minor detail 
> seems to have been omitted...  
> 
> It been an interesting topic to explore, with interesting perspectives.   
> I'll  figure out a way to sort it.   I like the raymarine instruments and 
> their people were accessible and courteous.  The more I dig into it though, 
> the more convinced I am that their approach to this is unethical, 
> irrespective of how one might feel about their broader strategy.   (The 
> manual ices it.). Anyway, now we know, as will others who read the 
> discussion. 
> 
> I didn't hate them, but I'm starting to.
> 
> Mic drop... ;-)
> 
> Dave

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Re: Stus-List Sailing instrument updating

[Don Harben via CnC-List]

Ah yes

A new fleet of radio control  arm chair sailing craft ready for DarknStormy 
adventures...

Don

Don Harben
Viking 34
Life
www.ncyc.ca

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Re: Stus-List Sailing instrument updating

[William Hall via CnC-List]

Dennis,
One of my spies watched your last attempt. It looks like you've got a ways
to go. Let us know when you've made more progress.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-_Tg13ozOU


On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 9:34 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I just read where a group of hackers took over a Tesla S and made it back
> up.  I am working on hacking Raymarine and Garmin instrument and navigation
> devices.  Soon I will be able to control your boat.  :)
>
> Anonymous Sailor
>
>
> (aka Dennis C.)
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>


-- 
William D. Hall, Ph.D.
617 620 9078 (c)
wh...@alum.mit.edu
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Re: Stus-List Electrical Question

[gnylander--- via CnC-List]

After all the messages recently posted by listers, I found 
a stack of free boooklets provided by the US Department of 
Homeland Security at our local Maritime Museum. The form 
number is 2010-361-210. It provides all the "legal" 
answers to the questions posed.


One distinction I didn't recall seeing during the recent 
discussions is the size of the boat. For example, is your 
boat is less than 20 meters long, it is not required to 
display an anchor light in a "special anchorage". And, if 
it is less than 12 meters (39.4 feet), you do not need the 
conical shape while motoring.


Just some more stuff to keep you reading.

Gary (less than 12 meters)


On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 07:10:51 -0400
 Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List  
wrote:
If I am not mistaken, only on “designated anchorages” 
(and then you don’t need the light either)




Marek



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List

Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 05:20
To: C&C List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Electrical Question



Re: anchor balls.  I'm not saying that its not a good 
idea but I thought that the requirements for anchor 
dayshapes and lights was eliminated while in a charted 
anchorage or in a mooring field.  Or is it just while on 
s mooring?  Or am I just mistaken altogether?


Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Sep 16, 2016 7:42 PM, "gnylander--- via CnC-List" 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 
wrote:


I have seen a few anchor balls around here (St. 
Michaels, MD) usually on boats visiting on their way up 
or down the ICW - there are two anchorages on the river, 
so they know what they are doing. Most don't. Some don't 
even display lights at night


Gary


On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 10:39:53 -0400
Rick Brass via CnC-List  > wrote:


West sells a fold up anchor ball for a relatively cheap 
$17. But I bet they don’t sell many. I’d not have a clue 
as to where you could go to buy a steaming cone. And I 
don’t think I’ve ever seen either one of these actually 
being used by a small boat. I do occasionally see day 
shapes displayed on the larger shrimp trawlers in our 
waters, but not often. 



Rick Brass

Washington, NC





From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
 ] On Behalf Of 
Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List

Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 9:59 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Cc: Marek Dziedzic  >

Subject: Re: Stus-List Electrical Question



Rick,



you do (so triple points for you (each point can be 
converted to a drink of your choice when visiting on my 
boat)). Though, I should have said that professionals 
should not apply (;-).




I don’t have the day shapes either, but I have to say 
that a long while ago I used to sail on a boat that 
regularly displayed the black ball when anchoring. And we 
used to carry both the black ball and the black cone. 
However, I don’t remember ever displaying the inverted 
cone. And I don’t think I ever saw an inverted cone 
displayed.




Marek

Ottawa, ON



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Re: Stus-List Sailing instrument updating

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

soo, I won't need the autopilot then?


On 9/21/2016 9:34 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
I just read where a group of hackers took over a Tesla S and made it 
back up.  I am working on hacking Raymarine and Garmin instrument and 
navigation devices.  Soon I will be able to control your boat.  :)


Anonymous Sailor


(aka Dennis C.)


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Re: Stus-List Sailing instrument updating

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Too bad Musk is not a sailor - we could have self docking boats!

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 9:34 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I just read where a group of hackers took over a Tesla S and made it back
> up.  I am working on hacking Raymarine and Garmin instrument and navigation
> devices.  Soon I will be able to control your boat.  :)
>
> Anonymous Sailor
>
>
> (aka Dennis C.)
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Stus-List Sailing instrument updating

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I just read where a group of hackers took over a Tesla S and made it back
up.  I am working on hacking Raymarine and Garmin instrument and navigation
devices.  Soon I will be able to control your boat.  :)

Anonymous Sailor


(aka Dennis C.)
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Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot business!

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

When I bought our boat last fall there were brand new speed/depth/wind 
instruments installed (very poorly and they barely worked but there they 
were)


So I struggled with what to do about a plotter.  I considered Ipad, 
SmartPhone, Windows Tablet,  In the end I went with a raymarine 
MFD/Radar Bundle that were on a really nice sale.


The hardest part of the install had nothing to do with the instruments.  
It was routing cable and installing a new pedestal guard with a pod 
(thanks to Fred's strong recommendation on the guard with pod upgrade).  
After removing all the abandoned cabling and running and securing all 
the new cables (and getting the previously installed instrument cables 
OUT OF THE BILGE!), it was all plug and play!  The whole system just 
fired up (ok ok, Fred's consultation and diagram was a HUGE help!).  I 
even ended up getting an autopilot on sale but, I have yet to install 
that. Again the hard part here is having to build an anchor point for 
the linear drive.  My guess it will plug in and play as easily as 
everything else.  I guess if you look at all the electronics as one 
networked system it helps get past the proprietary pain.  if all those 
displays came in the same box you'd pick one and be done with it!  Of 
course, that makes it very expensive and labor intensive to upgrade if 
you decide to go to another manufacturer. I guess my view is that, all 
these systems have been around a long time and they work really well.  
Being stuck with raymarine (or any other brand) is what it is.  
Hopefully, having the cabling done, upgrading with new raymarine will be 
easier and less costly and less labor intensive than this whole system 
upgrade was.  I have to say, all the matching instruments look pretty 
impressive! and they work!!


Who knows, I may be on to a new boat by the time I need an instrument 
upgrade!  I seem to have a 4 year itch...  I get a boat, fix it all up 
over a few seasons, sell it at a loss and buy a bigger, more expensive 
boat...  it's really great business model, don't you think?


Danny

On 9/21/2016 7:44 AM, John McKay via CnC-List wrote:

As a follow up, I do like the EV100.

I installed, did the one or two circles and it works. The calibration 
was a breeze!


J



On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 8:03 PM, G Collins via CnC-List 
 wrote:



You Ray haters kill me... just kidding!  But sometimes it pays to read
the manual before you buy, and they are all available online these days.

That Garmin thing is a cool solution, I like it.  The Navico (B&G)
version doesn't seem to be available anywhere, so that may have been a
possible route to firmware updates but no longer...

I guess my conclusion early on was to get a MDF that goes with the big
electronics on the boat, so my a75 MDF can update my EV200 autopilot.
And IMHO it makes sense to have the same brand of anyway, so that you
are sure they will work together as best they can.  My wind/speed/depth
system, since it is B&G, is essentially orphaned. I'm not so concerned
with that.  And I am quite happy with my Raymarine gear, whereas I've
had two Triton displays malfunction on me in the same 3 seasons.

As to why you can't update one companies gear from another companies
MDF, I can't see any company signing up for that - say I update my B&G
firmware over my Ray MDF, and next thing my Triton displays are bricks -
who do I call to get it resolved? That would not be a fun day.

Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C&C 35-III #11

On 2016-09-20 9:58 AM, Pete Shelquist via CnC-List wrote:
> You raymarine guys kill me.  Defend it to the end and drag others down
> when it's obvious that Ray falls short. I've been saying it for years:
> friends don't let friends buy raymarine.
>
> Dave/others; Per Garmin FAQ, Here's the solution if/when you decide to
> leave the raymarine dark side :
>
>


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Re: Stus-List Windows, Mac, ecosystems, etc... [was "Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and"]

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

I’m with you, Steve — I have to use a Windoze 10 laptop for some tasks at my 
new job; but my MacBook Pro is sitting on the desk, too, and gets more use.  
And you’re correct, you’re not “locked in” with hardware; my iPhone and MacBook 
Pro’s calendars and email apps tie in just fine with my employer’s Outlook 
server, and I can access file servers across the LAN or VPN connections.  I can 
work on both sides of the fence; I just prefer the experience that comes with 
the Apple ecosystem.  Stuff just tends to work.

And yes, I’m a pretty happy Raymarine guy, too… so I can get double-flamed now 
on the list…   :^)

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

> On Sep 20, 2016, at 8:37 PM, Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Patrick, I have to chime in for Apple here - and not speaking to the iPhone 7 
> because I haven't been paying attention and I'm an Android guy, but there is 
> no "hardware lock in" with Apple. "Ecosystem" lock in, absolutely. You get 
> the iPhone so you're locked to their App store - yes. This is also true for 
> Android. There are benefits and there are drawbacks, but hardware lock in - 
> no. They use all the same ports everyone else uses these days. I'm a Windows, 
> Linux and Mac guy ... Someone wants to take my macbook? - from my cold dead 
> hands!
> 
> The XPS laptops and that come close in industrial design these days - they 
> have that nice edge display. But it's still Windows and well, Windows was my 
> first, but it's a total kludge fest compared to the UI in OSX. I use both, 
> every day and once upon a time, back in the OS9 days, I made fun of the mac 
> guys. 
> 
> Steve
> Suhana, C&C 32
> Toronto

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Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot business!

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

Multi Function Display  (combined chartplotter, GPS, all that stuff)

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight
veinot via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 8:33 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: dwight veinot 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot
business!

Dumb question maybe but what does MFD stand for?
Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net



On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 9:24 PM, Dave S via CnC-List 
wrote:
> Now sells only MFDs with optional add-ons.  Like autopilots, VHF 
> radios, standalone instruments...
>
> S, after a some very cordial discussion with Raymarine this week, 
> I learned it is impossible to update the firmware on any of the 
> thousands of dollars of brand new stuff on Windstar, unless I also buy a
Raymarine MFD.
>
> This is an interesting throwback strategy in this app/software/digital 
> age, kinda like finding out after the fact that you need to buy a $2000
Macbook
> Air to update your iphone.   (Let em try that on a millenial!)
>
> To be fair, they were quite cordial and genuinely responsive, but 
> their suggestions that I
> -  borrow a MFD from a friend,
> -  disassemble my boat and ship the bits to them when they issue an 
> update,
> -  -  hire one of their 'best in the business' techs to visit,
> -   or just buy one of their excellent MFDs!
> left me a bit cold.  Now I'm REALLY not gonna buy one.
>
> I did some cursory checking, and other vendors don't take this approach.
>
> Caveat emptor.
>
> Dave
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If 
> you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All 
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>

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Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot business!

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Dumb question maybe but what does MFD stand for?
Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net



On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 9:24 PM, Dave S via CnC-List
 wrote:
> Now sells only MFDs with optional add-ons.  Like autopilots, VHF radios,
> standalone instruments...
>
> S, after a some very cordial discussion with Raymarine this week, I
> learned it is impossible to update the firmware on any of the thousands of
> dollars of brand new stuff on Windstar, unless I also buy a Raymarine MFD.
>
> This is an interesting throwback strategy in this app/software/digital age,
> kinda like finding out after the fact that you need to buy a $2000 Macbook
> Air to update your iphone.   (Let em try that on a millenial!)
>
> To be fair, they were quite cordial and genuinely responsive, but their
> suggestions that I
> -  borrow a MFD from a friend,
> -  disassemble my boat and ship the bits to them when they issue an update,
> -  -  hire one of their 'best in the business' techs to visit,
> -   or just buy one of their excellent MFDs!
> left me a bit cold.  Now I'm REALLY not gonna buy one.
>
> I did some cursory checking, and other vendors don't take this approach.
>
> Caveat emptor.
>
> Dave
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions
> are greatly appreciated!
>

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cnc-list@cnc-list.com

[Bob Hickson via CnC-List]

I recently bought a Raymarine EVO 100 autopilot to add to my existing B&G 
Triton speed, depth, wind instruments. The EVO autohelm integrated with no 
issues ... it displays wind speed and direction and it will sail to an apparent 
wind angle (even triggers the alarm if there is a wind shift). I spent hours 
with both B&G and Raymarine tech support over the connection issue. The 
Raymarine and B&G "nema 2000" backbone cables must be connected "end to end". 
To achieve this you must cut one end off the Raymarine backbone cable and 
install a Maretron connector ($20) that will plug into the B&G backbone cable. 
The connector is a bit fiddly with tiny setscrews but it works perfectly and 
the 2 systems talk to each other.

Bob Hickson, P. ENG.,Sent from Samsung Mobile___

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Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot business!

[John McKay via CnC-List]

As a follow up, I do like the EV100.
I installed, did the one or two circles and it works. The calibration was a 
breeze!
J
 

On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 8:03 PM, G Collins via CnC-List 
 wrote:
 

 You Ray haters kill me...  just kidding!  But sometimes it pays to read 
the manual before you buy, and they are all available online these days.

That Garmin thing is a cool solution, I like it.  The Navico (B&G) 
version doesn't seem to be available anywhere, so that may have been a 
possible route to firmware updates but no longer...

I guess my conclusion early on was to get a MDF that goes with the big 
electronics on the boat, so my a75 MDF can update my EV200 autopilot.  
And IMHO it makes sense to have the same brand of anyway, so that you 
are sure they will work together as best they can.  My wind/speed/depth 
system, since it is B&G, is essentially orphaned.  I'm not so concerned 
with that.  And I am quite happy with my Raymarine gear, whereas I've 
had two Triton displays malfunction on me in the same 3 seasons.

As to why you can't update one companies gear from another companies 
MDF, I can't see any company signing up for that - say I update my B&G 
firmware over my Ray MDF, and next thing my Triton displays are bricks - 
who do I call to get it resolved? That would not be a fun day.

Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C&C 35-III #11

On 2016-09-20 9:58 AM, Pete Shelquist via CnC-List wrote:
> You raymarine guys kill me.  Defend it to the end and drag others down 
> when it's obvious that Ray falls short. I've been saying it for years: 
> friends don't let friends buy raymarine.
>
> Dave/others; Per Garmin FAQ, Here's the solution if/when you decide to 
> leave the raymarine dark side :
>
>


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