Re: Stus-List 3GMF knocking sound

[Kevin Paxton via CnC-List]

Thanks John. I'll definitely have to look at that next time we are out. Not
sure if it's related but our RPM's don't get up to the manuals recommended
range either. I'm not sure if it's the Tach isn't reading right, or the
engine itself just won't get up there. I can only really get it up to maybe
~2200-2400 rpms according to tach. I want to say the manual says to get it
up to 3k?

I did get down on Wednesday to try it out in the slip with more fuel. I
first ran it without engaging the prop at ~1800-2000 rpms (according to the
tach) for a good 5-10 mins and didn't hear any abnormal noises. Then I
engaged the prop and ran again at ~1800 rpms for another 10-15 mins and
again no abnormal noises. So maybe it was just dirty/low fuel with all the
rocking and rolling around stirring it up.

I did notice at higher rpms the vibration was minimal, at lower rpms it
does seem to vibrate quite a bit. I'm assuming that is normal.

Josh, What do you mean by backlash? Just a large jump or something to cause
more vibration?

Thanks everyone,
Kevin Paxton
'82 34 #473
Japhys Spirit
Cornfield Creek, Pasadena, MD

On Sun, May 27, 2018 at 12:05 PM John and Maryann Read via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Have Yanmar 3GM and Kanzaki transmission.  Had similar issue of only one
> blade opening after sailing, boat shaking and continuing problem after
> trying varying speeds, reverse / forward etc.  Worked fine if starting from
> dead stop.  Not excessive wear on blade pins.  In our case turned out to be
> worn / polished cones in transmission.  Seems an earlier rebuild was not
> done correctly, resulting in shaft not getting fully engaged.  Diagnosed by
> watching prop shaft as crew engaged in gear at idle, then slowly increase
> throttle.  Shaft rpm’s did not increase corresponding to engine.  Would
> occasionally “grab” when higher engine rpm’s were applied.  Pulled
> transmission (not that hard), sent to expert on Yanmar / Kanzaki
> transmissions (VERY important), had the unit back in a week, reinstalled
> all is well.  Some pointers picked up along the way.  1) In our case the
> fitting attaching the shifting cable to the shift lever on the transmission
> is a double spring push/pull fitting which must be adjusted so when in
> either forward or reverse there is additional movement possible on the
> binnacle.  We attach the fitting to the inner hole of the lever.
> Lubricating spring is normal maintenance each year.  2)  The mounts are OK
> provided you can get a finger between the base and top plates.  3)  Check
> alignment
>
>
>
> Hope this helps
>
>
>
> John and Maryann
>
> Legacy III
>
> 1982 C&C 34
>
> Noank, CT
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Kevin
> Paxton via CnC-List
>
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 27, 2018 10:46 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Kevin Paxton
>
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 3GMF knocking sound
>
>
>
> Pretty sure it's a martec, folding 2-blade. I try to power up and it
> vibrates like crazy. I power down to try and get it to reset so that I
> don't damage anything with it vibrating so bad. Then I try again. If I
> rotate the shaft manually I can hear each blade folding open but for some
> reason it is tough to open it after sailing for a bit.
>
>
>
> Coming out of the slip it opens without a problem.
>
>
>
> The sounds came this time though while already under power and the prop
> was open.
>
> On Sun, May 27, 2018, 10:27 AM Gary Nylander via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> I’m curious. What kind of prop do you have that requires you to slow down
> to get it to open. Most folding ones ask for more speed to get the blades
> to open. Non opening would produce lots of vibration, which would get lots
> of noise as the engine bounces around on (particularly) old motor mounts.
> Shake the motor.
>
>
>
> Gary
>
> Flex-o-fold geared
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Kevin
> Paxton via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 26, 2018 8:05 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Kevin Paxton 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 3GMF knocking sound
>
>
>
> Yea I did that today and started it up and it sounded fine. However I
> didn't put it in gear or take it out of the slip. The racor was full and I
> didn't see any water in it either.
>
>
>
> Now it does vibrate pretty good under operation. I looked at the engine
> mounts though and none seemed to be cracked or anything. What should the
> mounts look/feel like?  How much vibration while running should it have?
>
> On Sat, May 26, 2018, 6:50 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Kevin,
>
>
>
> Fill the fuel tank with 6 to 10 gallons of fresh fuel, try it out, and get
> back to us.  Check your racor filter for air.  Low fuel/air in the
> line/water in the line can all cause rough operation.  These Yanmars have a
> lot of backlash in the engine and when you get rough operations the clutch
> plate springs can bang.  If you have a loose/broken/soft engine mount it
> can allo

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: v berth sheets and mattress pads

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I have a tufted topper. I like it, but I do not like the fitted sheets they 
made for me. It may have partly been user error doing the traces, they are 
tight and prone to pop loose.
What I have now:
I bought a king size memory foam mattress. I put the V-berth cushions on top of 
it, traced them with a marker, and then cut the mattress to shape with an 
electric carving knife. Do NOT try and do this without an electric knife, you 
will butcher it if you do it by hand. The mattress came with a cover I managed 
to get off and reuse.
I use the tufted topper on top of that and use king sized sheets. IMHO they 
work a lot better than fitted v-shaped sheets. I know it is hard to believe our 
tiny v-berths use king sheets, but they do. This is about 20x more comfortable 
than the original cushions and there is no seam in the middle. The only 
drawback so far was  getting the mattress through the hatch and into the 
forward cabin was like fighting a giant octopus!
* think twice about sleeping directly on memory foam. When it is 98 degrees F 
and 99.999% humidity, do you really want foam that forms around you?

Joe Della Barba
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of ALAN BERGEN 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 10:14 PM
To: C&C
Cc: ALAN BERGEN
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List v berth sheets and mattress pads

I had a pillow top pad made for my V-berth by Tufted Topper 
www.tuftedtopper.com.  They did a great job.  They 
also make fitted sheets.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR


On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 6:47 PM, Daniel Sheer via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Looking for advice on how to make 'em.

Dan Sheer
Pegathy LF 38
Rock Creek off the Patapsco



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Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: v berth sheets and mattress pads

[schiller via CnC-List]

Speaking of which, we had a tufted topper and fitted sheets on Corsair, 
our Redwing 35 (C&C 35-1) that is still in the basement.  It is 
available to anyone on the list (with a C&C 35-1) for the price of 
shipping (and maybe a small donation to Stu).  Please let me know.  I 
might be a little slow on response.  We are going up to the boat today 
for another coat of Epiphanes on the teak and try to get the rudder 
sensor installation completed for the autopilot.


Neil Schiller
1983 C&C 35-3, #28
"Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC



On 6/1/2018 8:44 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote:


I have a tufted topper. I like it, but I do not like the fitted sheets 
they made for me. It may have partly been user error doing the traces, 
they are tight and prone to pop loose.


What I have now:

I bought a king size memory foam mattress. I put the V-berth cushions 
on top of it, traced them with a marker, and then cut the mattress to 
shape with an electric carving knife. Do NOT try and do this without 
an electric knife, you will butcher it if you do it by hand. The 
mattress came with a cover I managed to get off and reuse.


I use the tufted topper on top of that and use king sized sheets. IMHO 
they work a lot better than fitted v-shaped sheets. I know it is hard 
to believe our tiny v-berths use king sheets, but they do. This is 
about 20x more comfortable than the original cushions and there is no 
seam in the middle. The only drawback so far was  getting the mattress 
through the hatch and into the forward cabin was like fighting a giant 
octopus!


* think twice about sleeping directly on memory foam. When it is 98 
degrees F and 99.999% humidity, do you really want foam that forms 
around you?


Joe Della Barba

Coquina

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List

*Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 10:14 PM
*To:* C&C
*Cc:* ALAN BERGEN
*Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List v berth sheets and mattress pads

I had a pillow top pad made for my V-berth by Tufted Topper 
www.tuftedtopper.com .  They did a great 
job.  They also make fitted sheets.



Alan Bergen

35 Mk III Thirsty

Rose City YC

Portland, OR

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 6:47 PM, Daniel Sheer via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Looking for advice on how to make 'em.

Dan Sheer

Pegathy LF 38

Rock Creek off the Patapsco


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  
Each and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the 
list - use PayPal to send contribution -- 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.paypal.me_stumurray&d=DwICAg&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=9w3G7Cf8YfQnrjmtuNxwDJYr3JMv9f1pAfgAJ9xXYQQ&m=jZyDUd-RfnsMbjXklG-hZwZa5qYOSlMHZTlhA6bZfBA&s=MCpPeq9AtBhOM3ZA7uOUvUvpMlDdvSX6Ppdb-xs1P4U&e=




___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List 3GMF knocking sound

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I may have used the incorrect term but the idea of backlash is the amount
of "gear slop" between the output of the engine and the output of the
transmission.  There is a dampener in the bell housing that has springs and
those springs cushion the changes in torque from the engine output.  The
flywheel is not heavy enough to appreciably smooth the output torque.  Over
time the springs in the dampener can become week or break allowing the 2
parts of the dampener to bottom out on one another.  You may only notice
that the engine bangs into gear a little harsh.

When the engine is running at a normal rpm the counter torque created by
the compression of one cylinder is offset by the ignition of an adjacent
and since there are three cylinders each is 120° from the other and a
relatively smooth operation can be achieved.  If a misfire occurs the
counter torque will have a more significant effect, momentarily slowing the
shaft until a total of 240° of rotation is achieved before the next
ignition.  In reality since these are 4 stroke engines every cylinder has
to travel up and down twice for each ignition so instead of being simply
120° away from the next ignition it is actually 240° on a normal cycle and
when you have a misfire it pushes to 480°.  This is exacerbated at lower
rpm where there is less inertia to carry the engine through the compression
stroke.

Compound a worn or broken dampener with an irregular misfire or a low RPM
and suddenly a pretty harsh condition presents.

Hope that explains it well enough.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Fri, Jun 1, 2018, 8:21 AM Kevin Paxton via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Thanks John. I'll definitely have to look at that next time we are out.
> Not sure if it's related but our RPM's don't get up to the manuals
> recommended range either. I'm not sure if it's the Tach isn't reading
> right, or the engine itself just won't get up there. I can only really get
> it up to maybe ~2200-2400 rpms according to tach. I want to say the manual
> says to get it up to 3k?
>
> I did get down on Wednesday to try it out in the slip with more fuel. I
> first ran it without engaging the prop at ~1800-2000 rpms (according to the
> tach) for a good 5-10 mins and didn't hear any abnormal noises. Then I
> engaged the prop and ran again at ~1800 rpms for another 10-15 mins and
> again no abnormal noises. So maybe it was just dirty/low fuel with all the
> rocking and rolling around stirring it up.
>
> I did notice at higher rpms the vibration was minimal, at lower rpms it
> does seem to vibrate quite a bit. I'm assuming that is normal.
>
> Josh, What do you mean by backlash? Just a large jump or something to
> cause more vibration?
>
> Thanks everyone,
> Kevin Paxton
> '82 34 #473
> Japhys Spirit
> Cornfield Creek, Pasadena, MD
>
> On Sun, May 27, 2018 at 12:05 PM John and Maryann Read via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Have Yanmar 3GM and Kanzaki transmission.  Had similar issue of only one
>> blade opening after sailing, boat shaking and continuing problem after
>> trying varying speeds, reverse / forward etc.  Worked fine if starting from
>> dead stop.  Not excessive wear on blade pins.  In our case turned out to be
>> worn / polished cones in transmission.  Seems an earlier rebuild was not
>> done correctly, resulting in shaft not getting fully engaged.  Diagnosed by
>> watching prop shaft as crew engaged in gear at idle, then slowly increase
>> throttle.  Shaft rpm’s did not increase corresponding to engine.  Would
>> occasionally “grab” when higher engine rpm’s were applied.  Pulled
>> transmission (not that hard), sent to expert on Yanmar / Kanzaki
>> transmissions (VERY important), had the unit back in a week, reinstalled
>> all is well.  Some pointers picked up along the way.  1) In our case the
>> fitting attaching the shifting cable to the shift lever on the transmission
>> is a double spring push/pull fitting which must be adjusted so when in
>> either forward or reverse there is additional movement possible on the
>> binnacle.  We attach the fitting to the inner hole of the lever.
>> Lubricating spring is normal maintenance each year.  2)  The mounts are OK
>> provided you can get a finger between the base and top plates.  3)  Check
>> alignment
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope this helps
>>
>>
>>
>> John and Maryann
>>
>> Legacy III
>>
>> 1982 C&C 34
>>
>> Noank, CT
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Kevin
>> Paxton via CnC-List
>>
>>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 27, 2018 10:46 AM
>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Cc:* Kevin Paxton
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 3GMF knocking sound
>>
>>
>>
>> Pretty sure it's a martec, folding 2-blade. I try to power up and it
>> vibrates like crazy. I power down to try and get it to reset so that I
>> don't damage anything with it vibrating so bad. Then I try again. If I
>> rotate the shaft manually I can hear each blade folding open but for some
>> reason it i

Stus-List 3GMF knocking sound

[Francois Rivard via CnC-List]

Hi Kevin,

In addition to making sure the transmission is fully engaged (We had that
issue too, for me, it was solved with a simple cable adjustment), it sounds
like you should jump in the water and take a good look at your prop. What
you need to do is grab the blades and wiggle them against the folding axis.
So, not following the folding movement, the other axis -> back and forth.
If the tip moves more than 1/8 - 1/4 inch the hub and blades need a
rebuild.

The Martecs only go so long before needing a rebuild which consists of
reaming the pivot axis hole and installing a larger diameter pivot shaft.
It sounds like a big deal but it's not: Last time I had it done Martec did
it for $80.00 plus shipping.

The 3GM30F (I have one on my boat) is a small displacement engine (950 CC)
and by diesel standards: A High revver. It needs to cruise between 2800 and
3000 rpm and should run about 3400 rpm flat out.  If it's in good shape and
it can't achieve that something is amiss: Too much pitch on the prop /
dirty and draggy bottom  / combination of both.

When I had my prop redone Martec sold me higher pitch blades saying it
would "Run better"  It didn't. All I got was cavitation and vibrations.
Going back to the original blades solved the issue.  Yes, the blades with
more pitch were pitted (Obvious sign of cavitation), they looked like they
were infested with little crustaceans that don't exist in a lake.

When Yanmar says you should run the engine at those RPM they are not
kidding.  Prior owners of my boat ran it at low rpm too often and turned
the engine into a "Hard Starter" (What the local mechanics called it) as
not enough load and RPM caused excessive carbon deposits / fouled the
injectors / messed-up the whole thing.  it was literally a  5-10 minutes
battle to get the engine running on the first start of the weekend every
time we used the boat when we first got it.

I "fixed" the issue by running it at prescribed RPM / running it wide open
for at least 10-15 mins every weekend / using Diesel Kleen Power service
injector cleaner.  It took over 20 gallons to really make a difference but
now the engine starts within a few seconds every time when cold and
immediately fires-up for the rest of the weekend.

Good Luck,

-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA
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Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] 3GMF knocking sound

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I went nuts with a bad knocking sound and it turned out to be a bad alternator 
bearing.
Joe
Coquina
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Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List 3GMF knocking sound

[Kevin Paxton via CnC-List]

Good points Francois, I have meant to take a good look at the prop and
probably do need to send it off for reconditioning.

I know the bottom is a little dirty and so is the prop. But even when
everything was freshly painted I still had this issue. It starts up very
easily which makes me think that I'm running it at a decent load.

Is there a way to determine the reliability and accuracy of the Tach?

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 9:30 AM Francois Rivard 
wrote:

> Hi Kevin,
>
> In addition to making sure the transmission is fully engaged (We had that
> issue too, for me, it was solved with a simple cable adjustment), it sounds
> like you should jump in the water and take a good look at your prop. What
> you need to do is grab the blades and wiggle them against the folding axis.
> So, not following the folding movement, the other axis -> back and forth.
> If the tip moves more than 1/8 - 1/4 inch the hub and blades need a
> rebuild.
>
> The Martecs only go so long before needing a rebuild which consists of
> reaming the pivot axis hole and installing a larger diameter pivot shaft.
> It sounds like a big deal but it's not: Last time I had it done Martec did
> it for $80.00 plus shipping.
>
> The 3GM30F (I have one on my boat) is a small displacement engine (950 CC)
> and by diesel standards: A High revver. It needs to cruise between 2800 and
> 3000 rpm and should run about 3400 rpm flat out.  If it's in good shape and
> it can't achieve that something is amiss: Too much pitch on the prop /
> dirty and draggy bottom  / combination of both.
>
> When I had my prop redone Martec sold me higher pitch blades saying it
> would "Run better"  It didn't. All I got was cavitation and vibrations.
> Going back to the original blades solved the issue.  Yes, the blades with
> more pitch were pitted (Obvious sign of cavitation), they looked like they
> were infested with little crustaceans that don't exist in a lake.
>
> When Yanmar says you should run the engine at those RPM they are not
> kidding.  Prior owners of my boat ran it at low rpm too often and turned
> the engine into a "Hard Starter" (What the local mechanics called it) as
> not enough load and RPM caused excessive carbon deposits / fouled the
> injectors / messed-up the whole thing.  it was literally a  5-10 minutes
> battle to get the engine running on the first start of the weekend every
> time we used the boat when we first got it.
>
> I "fixed" the issue by running it at prescribed RPM / running it wide open
> for at least 10-15 mins every weekend / using Diesel Kleen Power service
> injector cleaner.  It took over 20 gallons to really make a difference but
> now the engine starts within a few seconds every time when cold and
> immediately fires-up for the rest of the weekend.
>
> Good Luck,
>
> -Francois Rivard
> 1990 34+ "Take Five"
> Lake Lanier, GA
>
>
>
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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List 3GMf Knocking Sound

[ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List]

I had a problem with a previous boat, engine dying at higher rpm's.  Turned
out that there was a filter on the fuel take-up, in the tank, that was
partially clogged.  Once I cleaned it, the problem went away.

With my present boat with a 3GMf engine, I had a problem with the
transmission not fully engaging.  I bought a new cone, but that didn't cure
the problem.  On further inspection, I noticed a little "play" (not sure
that's the right word) when putting the transmission in gear.  I fixed the
problem with a couple of shims that eliminated the play.  If anyone needs a
new cone, I have one for sale at half price.

Recently I noticed more vibration than usual at high rpm's while in gear.
Out of gear, the engine runs very smoothly.  I'm pretty sure it's the
cutlass bearing, which hasn't been changed since I bought the boat in
2001.  The vibration isn't so bad that changing the cutlass can wait.
I'll change it when the boat comes out next year.


Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR

Hey Everyone,



Well we were lucky enough to be able to take out our 34 this past Wednesday
for the Blue Angels show in Annapolis. On our way back our Yanmar 3GMF
would occasionally make a knocking sound. I'm hoping you guys might know
what could have caused it.



When it happened:

* We were about to enter into the mouth of the Magothy and I was taking
down the main. My wife had the helm and yelled up saying that something
didn't sound right with the engine. She throttled down and when I got back
everything sounded ok. She said that it sounded like it was going to die.
Like it was running out of fuel.

* We kept it running slowly for a bit without issue. Then I tried to speed
us up again. After about 5-10 mins it started making the noise again. To me
it sounded like a loud knocking or banging sound. I immediately reduced
power again and it immediately went away.



Conditions:

* At the time it started occurring we had about 1/8 of a tank of fuel.

* Heavy, choppy waves for a large portion of our trip due to lots of power
boats. However, at the time it occurred, seas were calm.

* At start up after we sailed for a bit the prop had trouble opening and I
had to reduce power a couple of times to get it to open.



Observations:

* I didn't see anything incorrect or worrysome during operation.

* No leaking oil, fuel, or water.

* Racor water separator doesn't show any water in the bowl. A little gunk
in the bottom but not much.

* When power was reduced, everything sounded normal and operated normal.



Thoughts/Questions:

* Could low fuel/dirty fuel/water in fuel make this happen?

* Could this be more of a vibration from the prop not opening properly? If
that's the case, could it be indicative of something in the strut or
cutlass bearing? We have in the past had A LOT of problems with the prop
not opening.

* I did notice that during operation on the way back that occasionally the
undulation of the waves caused some stress. I'm assuming just because of
stresses on the prop.



Today I filled up the tank and started it up in the slip. It started
immediately and didn't sound like anything was wrong. I brought the
throttle up and down and everything sounds absolutely fine. So I'm at a bit
of a loss as to what to check/do. I do know that I still need to change the
oil and I am planning on changing the fuel filters as well.



I did notice that I am able to see the notch in the prop shaft where it
meets the gearbox. There does not seem to be anything on the shaft that
would indicate that it shifted at all though. Is this normal?



Would love some help from some of the yanmar experts on here please.



Kevin Paxton

'82 34 #473

Japhys Spirit

Cornfield Creek, Pasadena, MD
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Re: Stus-List 38 Landfall stemhead/ bow roller cracked

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

Fred,

Sorry for the late reply I have been away from my laptop and hate writing 
emails via my phone.  

I am amazed that you have a spare sitting around.  I have started looking into 
different fabricators and have received a quote back from Stainless Outfitters. 
 It looks like they do great work, but they are pricey.   The estimated price 
was $1,500 with one bow roller and $2,220 for two bow rollers.They did say 
that they would need the original so that they could match the mounting holes 
and rigging attachment.   

Have a look at their website on stemheads: 
https://stainlessoutfitters.com/products/marine/stainless-stemheads/ 
.


Also, I have started looking into designing and having one fabricating locally. 
 Material costs for 316 stainless and hardware will likely range $500 - $800.


-
Paul E.
1981 C&C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

> On May 29, 2018, at 3:40 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 14:01:35 -0500
> From: Frederick G Street mailto:f...@postaudio.net>>
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List 38 Landfall stemhead/ bow roller cracked
> Message-ID: <9ae80286-fa02-479e-9a52-bc0b24cdf...@postaudio.net 
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hi, Paul ? I?ve actually got a spare casting sitting in my garage; I don?t 
> necessarily want to part with it, but could it serve as a pattern to have a 
> new weldment made up out of stainless or aluminum for you?  Maybe one with 
> some improvements?  And maybe they could make more than one?   :^)
> 
> ? Fred
> 
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

___

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Stus-List 3GMF knocking sound

[Francois Rivard via CnC-List]

Hi Kevin,

The only way I know of is to use another tach...  That doesn't have to be
expensive or complicated.  I used my R/C airplanes optical tach to validate
mine and it worked fine.  You paint a sliver or white stripe on the shaft /
shine a flashlight on it / point the tach at it.

They are about 20-30 bucks

R/C Tachometer:
https://www.amazon.com/Hangar-Micro-Digital-Tachometer-HAN156/dp/B0006N72U2

Automotive Optical Tachometer:
https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-20713A-Tachometer-Accuracy-Batteries/dp/B000I5LDVC/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1527864869&sr=1-2-spons&keywords=optical+Tachometer&psc=1

Good Luck,

Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA






Good points Francois, I have meant to take a good look at the prop and
probably do need to send it off for reconditioning.

I know the bottom is a little dirty and so is the prop. But even when
everything was freshly painted I still had this issue. It starts up very
easily which makes me think that I'm running it at a decent load.

Is there a way to determine the reliability and accuracy of the Tach?


On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 9:30 AM Francois Rivard 
wrote:
Hi Kevin,

In addition to making sure the transmission is fully engaged (We had that
issue too, for me, it was solved with a simple cable adjustment), it sounds
like you should jump in the water and take a good look at your prop. What
you need to do is grab the blades and wiggle them against the folding axis.
So, not following the folding movement, the other axis -> back and forth.
If the tip moves more than 1/8 - 1/4 inch the hub and blades need a
rebuild.

The Martecs only go so long before needing a rebuild which consists of
reaming the pivot axis hole and installing a larger diameter pivot shaft.
It sounds like a big deal but it's not: Last time I had it done Martec did
it for $80.00 plus shipping.

The 3GM30F (I have one on my boat) is a small displacement engine (950 CC)
and by diesel standards: A High revver. It needs to cruise between 2800 and
3000 rpm and should run about 3400 rpm flat out.  If it's in good shape and
it can't achieve that something is amiss: Too much pitch on the prop /
dirty and draggy bottom  / combination of both.

When I had my prop redone Martec sold me higher pitch blades saying it
would "Run better"  It didn't. All I got was cavitation and vibrations.
Going back to the original blades solved the issue.  Yes, the blades with
more pitch were pitted (Obvious sign of cavitation), they looked like they
were infested with little crustaceans that don't exist in a lake.

When Yanmar says you should run the engine at those RPM they are not
kidding.  Prior owners of my boat ran it at low rpm too often and turned
the engine into a "Hard Starter" (What the local mechanics called it) as
not enough load and RPM caused excessive carbon deposits / fouled the
injectors / messed-up the whole thing.  it was literally a  5-10 minutes
battle to get the engine running on the first start of the weekend every
time we used the boat when we first got it.

I "fixed" the issue by running it at prescribed RPM / running it wide open
for at least 10-15 mins every weekend / using Diesel Kleen Power service
injector cleaner.  It took over 20 gallons to really make a difference but
now the engine starts within a few seconds every time when cold and
immediately fires-up for the rest of the weekend.

Good Luck,

-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List cockpit drain seacocks

[Dan via CnC-List]

Just to update you guys - I did end up finding some lapping compound from a
motorcycle shop - I couldn't get it at Canadian Tire and I didn't want to
wait for Amazon. I lap-ground the one valve that had black scoring on the
inner drum which took away most of the tarnish. Cleaning out the lapping
compound from the outer valve assembly was a pain. I wiped, washed with a
wet rag and dish soap, then re-assembled with grease, then found it still
"gritty" when I operated the valve, so I dismantled it again, wiped clean
again, re-greased and re-assembled. It still feels a little "gritty" but I
think it's just the two newly sanded/ground surfaces rubbing together.
Everything is greased up and re-assembled and I splash on Monday. Wish me
luck!!

Dan

On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 4:46 PM, G Collins via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Dan
>
> I've only lapped the leaking ones (three of mine).  The others, I
> periodically (every couple of years) put grease nipples on and crank in
> some waterproof grease - Loctite Viperlube (Schooner Industrial in
> Burnside).
>
> Graham Collins
> Secret Plans
> C&C 35-III #11
>
> On 2018-05-26 3:49 PM, Daniel Cormier via CnC-List wrote:
>
> They both appeared very smooth- just black tarnish and small amount of
> pitting around the holes but they didn't appear to be in dire need of
> lapping or grinding. There was no build-up or scoring on the inner drums.
> The outer drum is hard to tell.
>
> Do all of you do a round of lapping when you service these?
>
> Dan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 26, 2018, at 3:32 PM, Kevin Paxton  wrote:
>
> Lapping compound is needed to smooth out the surfaces so that they join
> properly and provide a good seal. If they aren't smooth, then the
> possibility of a leak is far greater. Check out that link I provided on the
> servicing of them and it explains it really well.
>
> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 2:21 PM Daniel Cormier via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Ok, so I finally got them freed up. For one I used a monkey wrench and it
>> gave after considerable force. The second required a 2' pipe slide into the
>> end of my huge monkey wrench and came free with the leverage with no damage
>> to anything as far as I can tell. The drums needed scrubbing with a
>> non-scratching scouring pad and I re-assembled them with lubricant. One
>> drum looked smooth, the other showed a little black and tarnish. I don't
>> have any lapping compound so hopefully I don't get any leaks... how
>> important is the lapping compound step?
>>
>> Thanks for all the help guys!
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On May 25, 2018, at 9:22 PM, G Collins via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> if memory serves, you can take off the handle and fit a regular socket on
>> the stub.  Put a breaker bar on that and heave away.
>>
>> Mine needed to be re-ground to stop leaking, I used a socket wrench on it
>> as it made it a lot faster to turn the cone.
>>
>> Do you need a thin wrench to re-tighten when you have everything loose?
>> I ground one down to fit the inside nut.
>>
>> Graham Collins
>> Secret Plans
>> C&C 35-III #11
>>
>> On 2018-05-25 9:34 AM, Dan via CnC-List wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Rick,
>>
>> So far I've removed the nut and large washer plate from the end of both
>> seacocks and exposed the inner drum (yesterday) and sprayed liquid wrench
>> liberally into the creases, into the drain/greasing plug holes, and I
>> stopped up the seackocks from underneath the hull and sprayed intensively
>> down both scuppers to coat the inside of the valve. I removed the handles
>> and put a wrench on this morning and applied pressure and also banged with
>> a rubber mallet to no avail.
>>
>> There's simply no room in there to tap the end of the threaded part with
>> anything. Some kind of compression jig would be ideal but I can't think of
>> anything right now that would fit on there. I have a huge monkey wrench in
>> storage that will probably break them free, or I can try the long pipe
>> trick but I won't have a chance to do anything else until Sunday - will
>> send an update then!
>>
>> Thanks for all the help guys!
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 11:41 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dan;
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The “drain” plugs you mention are actually for lubricating the valve –
>>> kind of like the grease cup most of us have on our rudder shaft housing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The valve, as you have probably figured out already, is a tapered plug
>>> that looks like a big metal cork with a hole drilled across the centerline.
>>> There is a retaining shaft on the back with a nut that holds the tapered
>>> plug into the tapered body of the through hull.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you loosen the retaining nut on the back by 1 to 2 turns. Don’t
>>> remove it, just loosen it a bit. After your penetrating oil has had a
>>> chance to soak in a bit, tap on the retaining nut with a brass or wooden
>>> mallet. Neither the nut o

Re: Stus-List 3GMF knocking sound

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

One other option for a diesel tach:

https://www.tinytach.com/diesel-tinytach 


These can be had on Amazon for under $60.00.  I just built one into a new 
engine control panel I made for my LF38; I’ve never had either a tach or gauges 
on the boat, as it came with the original Yanmar Type A panel with a couple of 
idiot lights and a horn.

I’ll have pix to post this weekend after I (finally) launch…

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Jun 1, 2018, at 10:00 AM, Francois Rivard via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Kevin, 
> 
> The only way I know of is to use another tach...  That doesn't have to be 
> expensive or complicated.  I used my R/C airplanes optical tach to validate 
> mine and it worked fine.  You paint a sliver or white stripe on the shaft / 
> shine a flashlight on it / point the tach at it. 
> 
> They are about 20-30 bucks
> 
> R/C Tachometer: 
> https://www.amazon.com/Hangar-Micro-Digital-Tachometer-HAN156/dp/B0006N72U2 
> 
> 
> Automotive Optical Tachometer: 
> https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-20713A-Tachometer-Accuracy-Batteries/dp/B000I5LDVC/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1527864869&sr=1-2-spons&keywords=optical+Tachometer&psc=1
>  
> 
> 
> Good Luck, 
> 
> Francois Rivard
> 1990 34+ "Take Five"
> Lake Lanier, GA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good points Francois, I have meant to take a good look at the prop and 
> probably do need to send it off for reconditioning. 
> 
> I know the bottom is a little dirty and so is the prop. But even when 
> everything was freshly painted I still had this issue. It starts up very 
> easily which makes me think that I'm running it at a decent load.
> 
> Is there a way to determine the reliability and accuracy of the Tach?
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 9:30 AM Francois Rivard  > wrote:
> Hi Kevin, 
> 
> In addition to making sure the transmission is fully engaged (We had that 
> issue too, for me, it was solved with a simple cable adjustment), it sounds 
> like you should jump in the water and take a good look at your prop. What you 
> need to do is grab the blades and wiggle them against the folding axis. So, 
> not following the folding movement, the other axis -> back and forth. If the 
> tip moves more than 1/8 - 1/4 inch the hub and blades need a rebuild. 
> 
> The Martecs only go so long before needing a rebuild which consists of 
> reaming the pivot axis hole and installing a larger diameter pivot shaft.  It 
> sounds like a big deal but it's not: Last time I had it done Martec did it 
> for $80.00 plus shipping. 
> 
> The 3GM30F (I have one on my boat) is a small displacement engine (950 CC) 
> and by diesel standards: A High revver. It needs to cruise between 2800 and 
> 3000 rpm and should run about 3400 rpm flat out.  If it's in good shape and 
> it can't achieve that something is amiss: Too much pitch on the prop / dirty 
> and draggy bottom  / combination of both.  
> 
> When I had my prop redone Martec sold me higher pitch blades saying it would 
> "Run better"  It didn't. All I got was cavitation and vibrations.  Going back 
> to the original blades solved the issue.  Yes, the blades with more pitch 
> were pitted (Obvious sign of cavitation), they looked like they were infested 
> with little crustaceans that don't exist in a lake. 
> 
> When Yanmar says you should run the engine at those RPM they are not kidding. 
>  Prior owners of my boat ran it at low rpm too often and turned the engine 
> into a "Hard Starter" (What the local mechanics called it) as not enough load 
> and RPM caused excessive carbon deposits / fouled the injectors / messed-up 
> the whole thing.  it was literally a  5-10 minutes battle to get the engine 
> running on the first start of the weekend every time we used the boat when we 
> first got it.  
> 
> I "fixed" the issue by running it at prescribed RPM / running it wide open 
> for at least 10-15 mins every weekend / using Diesel Kleen Power service 
> injector cleaner.  It took over 20 gallons to really make a difference but 
> now the engine starts within a few seconds every time when cold and 
> immediately fires-up for the rest of the weekend. 
> 
> Good Luck, 
> 
> -Francois Rivard
> 1990 34+ "Take Five"
> Lake Lanier, GA
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  

Re: Stus-List problem Landfall38 autopilot help.

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

John,

I installed a below deck autopilot on my Landfall 38.  I went with Fred’s 
suggestion of the Raymarine EV-200 sail with the Octopus 1212LAR12 linear 
drive.  I started to write up the details on my blog but basically have been 
too busy and forgetful to finish the write up. 

https://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/2016/12/below-deck-autopilot.html 



In short,  I installed the linear drive on the forward port side of the radial 
steerer.  Access is through a panel in the quarter berth.  This was the 
simplest installation option which allowed for full mobility of the linear 
drive. I like the location as it is away from the lazarette and protected from 
loose objects.  The downfall is that the drive body needs to be mounted right 
below a cockpit scupper, so I removed the scupper and place a new one just aft 
of the original location.  The drive is bolted to the cockpit sole using a 1/2” 
thick G10 support plate which extends from the drive location to beyond the new 
scupper.  The drive piston is connected to the radial drive using an Edson 
radial drive rudder stop post which was milled to accept the ball joint of the 
drive piston rod end.  I bolted the mount post to the radial using the threaded 
bolt holes at the location Edson designed for a forward rudder stop.  While I 
epoxy painted the mount post, I installed it with a DMD sheet insulator and 
Teff-Gel to eliminate galvanic corrosion(same as aft rudder stop). The rudder 
indicator was mounted on a custom made bracket which was bolted and 
threadlocked to the radial rudder post bolts via bolt couplers.  

I installed the SeaTalkNG backbone connecting the autopilot, instruments, and 
E7D chart plotter. The p70 controller is mounted starboard of the helm.  With 
the latest LightHouse updates, I can control the autopilot from the chart 
plotter at the helm.   I have my wind instruments connected to the network so 
in principle I can sail in windvane mode.  I just have not tried yet.


The performance is specular.  Last January I sailed offshore 30NM up the coast 
beating in 30kts gusts and confused seas.   I was only disappointed in the 
performance of my foul weather gear. 



-
Paul E.
1981 C&C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/



> On May 31, 2018, at 5:12 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> From: CnC-List   >> On Behalf Of Frederick G Street via 
> CnC-List
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 7:57 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
>  >
> Cc: Frederick G Street   >>
> Subject: Re: Stus-List problem Landfall38 autopilot help.
> 
> Hi, John ? unless your LF38 is significantly different from mine, there is 
> absolutely no room to add a proper tiller arm.  You either have to live with 
> an undersized wheel pilot (as the Simrad is no longer in production, and the 
> Raymarine is right on the edge for our boats? displacement?); or you have to 
> strengthen the radial drive and attach the ram directly to that.  I know, 
> Chuck: that?s not recommended by Edson.  But there?s really no other choice; 
> and done correctly, it seems to work just fine.  The biggest issue is just 
> getting everything properly mounted in that #$%@# excuse for an engine space 
> in the LF38.  It takes a bit of cockpit locker space, but it appears to me 
> after much thought that a transverse mounting of the ram into the starboard 
> locker would be the best in terms of access for both installation and 
> maintenance.
> 
> I would also suggest that you take a look at the various hydraulic drives out 
> there (specifically Octopus and Simrad/Navico), as I believe they?ll last 
> much longer than the linear electromechanical drives from Raymarine.
> 
> And to Allan Hester, who asked about below-deck autopilots in a post last 
> weekend, sorry for the delay in replying; I was up trying to get the boat 
> ready for its much-delayed launch this coming Saturday.  Ask away, and I?ll 
> try to help.
> 
> ? Fred
> 
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
> 
> 
> 
> On May 30, 2018, at 4:17 PM, john wright via CnC-List   >> wrote:
> 
> "Has any CC Landfall 38 owners installed an Edson tiller arm for linear 
> autopilot drive application?  We are trying to install a B&G RAM1 Linear 
> drive unit and don't have enough exposed rudder shaft to attached an 
> independent Edson bronze tiller arm for linear drive connection.  We also 
> interested if anyone has used the quadrant to attach the quick release pin.  
> Its not rec

Stus-List Roll pin size

[T power via CnC-List]

Hi everyone, I need to replace a foil on my elderly harken furler. They are 
joined with roll pins, which will need to be drilled out. Anyone have any idea 
what size they would be. Thanks for any help


Tom Power
Invictus
C&C 30 MK1
Fredericton, NB
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray