Re: Stus-List Need Recommendation for Tool to remove balsa core from drilled hole - resins etc
I bought a used Natty dodger for my boat and am faced with the same task for the 30+ holes to install the Lift-the-Dot® fasteners that it requires to fasten the canvass to the deck. I did try to counter sink holes in the gelcoat and screw into the top fiberglass layer underneath, but that turned out to be a disaster. I have done lots of through bolting for various things over the years without difficulty, but this was my first experience trying to use self tapping fasteners (look like wood screws) in the deck and it was not a positive experience. The gelcoat is very thick in places, and in spite of my attempts to counter sink the gelcoat, often as not the screw chips out a huge flake. Removing the canvas female fastener from the deck mounted pins can take some force, and the screws pull out of the thin top layer of fiber glass. So I concluded after several failures that I need to stop what I was doing and use the drill and fill procedure. Then came winter. In all of these discussions about drilling and filling over the years, everyone defaults to using West System epoxy resin to fill the areas needing reinforcement. What is it about this product that makes it so superior? Why not use a polyester resin? - at least gelcoat will stick to it. Like most of us older guys I had experience with automotive body fillers in my younger years. They are all polyester. What is wrong with using that? Some of the Lift-the-Dot® fasteners are difficult to release and I don't know how to fix them. I have been thinking about changing over to the flat, 1/4 turn fasteners that are commonly used now. Is it a practical solution? Has anyone tried this? Spring project. Steve Thomas CC27 MKIII - Original Message - From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List To: kelly petew ; CC List Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 12:11 Subject: Re: Stus-List Need Recommendation for Tool to remove balsa core from drilled hole I just did this for my new stainless steel handrails. I didn't have real good luck with a bent nail so I tried various sizes of allen wrench. I found that a 3/16th or 1/8th inch drill bit through 3/8th holes at various angles worked best. I shop-vaced the chips out. After that you'll have better luck finishing up the hole with anballen wrench. If these are new holes, you might try to avoid drilling through the bottom skin. Otherwise you'll have to tape or plug the bottom hole when you go to fill with epoxy. I wet out the hole with clear penitrating epoxy and then fill in stages with thickend epoxy. If you drill through the bottom layer you can use masking tape to plug it, then a drop or two of 10 minute epoxy in the void to seal it. That way none of the CPE or thickened epoxy leaks out. I was filling the holes in 40-50°F weather so I used the fast hardening agent. In a large flat area this would have been fine but since some of my voids were close to 3 or 4 Tbsp (or 45-60ml) this caused a thermal run away in some of the holes. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Feb 26, 2015 11:44 AM, kelly petew via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I want to remove balsa core from some drilled holes and replace it with epoxy. I've heard that a bent nail inserted into an electric drill works. But I wonder if there is a tool designed specifically to do this job. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Pete W. Siren Song CC 30-2 Deltaville, VA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Need Recommendation for Tool to remove balsa core from drilled hole - resins etc
Steve, Epoxy (West's or others) provides a superior secondary bond over polyester. West Systems is often used by DIY boat owners because of their very helpful instructions and guide on their web site and the availability through retailers. Also, polyester based resins and fillers absorb moisture faster than epoxies. (Our company uses both in aerospace and mil-spec components that are tested for suitability in a wide range of exposures.) For short term repairs polyester based fillers and resins will work fine. Over 10+ years epoxy based resins and fillers will provide a better bond and resist water intrusion/absorption better. Both need to be protected from UV. Martin DeYoung Calypso 1971 CC 43 Seattle [Description: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F] From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Steve Thomas via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 10:15 AM To: Josh Muckley; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Need Recommendation for Tool to remove balsa core from drilled hole - resins etc I bought a used Natty dodger for my boat and am faced with the same task for the 30+ holes to install the Lift-the-Dot(r) fasteners that it requires to fasten the canvass to the deck. I did try to counter sink holes in the gelcoat and screw into the top fiberglass layer underneath, but that turned out to be a disaster. I have done lots of through bolting for various things over the years without difficulty, but this was my first experience trying to use self tapping fasteners (look like wood screws) in the deck and it was not a positive experience. The gelcoat is very thick in places, and in spite of my attempts to counter sink the gelcoat, often as not the screw chips out a huge flake. Removing the canvas female fastener from the deck mounted pins can take some force, and the screws pull out of the thin top layer of fiber glass. So I concluded after several failures that I need to stop what I was doing and use the drill and fill procedure. Then came winter. In all of these discussions about drilling and filling over the years, everyone defaults to using West System epoxy resin to fill the areas needing reinforcement. What is it about this product that makes it so superior? Why not use a polyester resin? - at least gelcoat will stick to it. Like most of us older guys I had experience with automotive body fillers in my younger years. They are all polyester. What is wrong with using that? Some of the Lift-the-Dot(r) fasteners are difficult to release and I don't know how to fix them. I have been thinking about changing over to the flat, 1/4 turn fasteners that are commonly used now. Is it a practical solution? Has anyone tried this? Spring project. Steve Thomas CC27 MKIII ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Need Recommendation for Tool to remove balsa core from drilled hole - resins etc
You need exactly the right size pilot hole for self-tapping screws. Trial and error has led me to two sizes that work reliably. #10 screws need 11/64 pilot hole, 1/4 fasteners need a 1/4 pilot hole. I know that sounds very strange, but try it on some scrap glass and see how it works. Jim Watts Paradigm Shift CC 35 Mk III Victoria, BC On 26 February 2015 at 10:30, Martin DeYoung via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Steve, Epoxy (West’s or others) provides a superior secondary bond over polyester. West Systems is often used by DIY boat owners because of their very helpful instructions and guide on their web site and the availability through retailers. Also, polyester based resins and fillers absorb moisture faster than epoxies. (Our company uses both in aerospace and mil-spec components that are tested for suitability in a wide range of exposures.) For short term repairs polyester based fillers and resins will work fine. Over 10+ years epoxy based resins and fillers will provide a better bond and resist water intrusion/absorption better. Both need to be protected from UV. Martin DeYoung Calypso 1971 CC 43 Seattle [image: Description: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F] *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Thomas via CnC-List *Sent:* Thursday, February 26, 2015 10:15 AM *To:* Josh Muckley; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Need Recommendation for Tool to remove balsa core from drilled hole - resins etc I bought a used Natty dodger for my boat and am faced with the same task for the 30+ holes to install the Lift-the-Dot® fasteners that it requires to fasten the canvass to the deck. I did try to counter sink holes in the gelcoat and screw into the top fiberglass layer underneath, but that turned out to be a disaster. I have done lots of through bolting for various things over the years without difficulty, but this was my first experience trying to use self tapping fasteners (look like wood screws) in the deck and it was not a positive experience. The gelcoat is very thick in places, and in spite of my attempts to counter sink the gelcoat, often as not the screw chips out a huge flake. Removing the canvas female fastener from the deck mounted pins can take some force, and the screws pull out of the thin top layer of fiber glass. So I concluded after several failures that I need to stop what I was doing and use the drill and fill procedure. Then came winter. In all of these discussions about drilling and filling over the years, everyone defaults to using West System epoxy resin to fill the areas needing reinforcement. What is it about this product that makes it so superior? Why not use a polyester resin? - at least gelcoat will stick to it. Like most of us older guys I had experience with automotive body fillers in my younger years. They are all polyester. What is wrong with using that? Some of the Lift-the-Dot® fasteners are difficult to release and I don't know how to fix them. I have been thinking about changing over to the flat, 1/4 turn fasteners that are commonly used now. Is it a practical solution? Has anyone tried this? Spring project. Steve Thomas CC27 MKIII ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
