Re: Stus-List mast tuning
Hi David, Just noticed your note. When I re-stepped the mast this spring I read two different articles on tuning. The first recommended tuning without the mast blocks installed and I tried that but could never get the rake correct, so after reading Cutter's article, I loosened all the shrouds, and the backstay turnbuckles and put the blocks in, having to use a wedge to get the aft block in. I have a new headstay and furler so had to do some adjusting with the turnbuckle to get the right length and rake. I have the rake about right but don't have a precise measurement because the mainsail is still flaked on the boom, but it's a lot closer (less) than before. Then I tightened the backstay turnbuckles, with the adjuster off, and then re-adjusted the headstay and backstay turnbuckles alternately get the proper rake with what seems to be about the right headstay tension, according to Cutter's article. I still need to do more work on the shroud tension -- the mast head is centered via the uppers, and the sail track straight, but the last time I went sailing there seemed to be too much slack in the leeward shrouds in 12-14 kts. of breeze. I'll let you know how the rest of the tuning goes. Monty On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 12:38 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Hi Monty- Thanks for pointing that out. I had read it a while ago, but forgot about it. One thing I still find confusing is the backstay. With the split wire backstay, no matter where you have the car, it is putting tension on the mast. The amount of tension would depend on the tightness of the turnbuckles in the back. So in what state do you measure the rake? With the backstay removed or with the adjuster in its loosest position? Once adjusted, how does one set those rear turnbuckles? Dave On Aug 2, 2015, at 9:44 AM, Monty Schumpert via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: David, Check out the article Rod Rigging -- Generic Tuning by Greg Cutter in the Do It Yourself section of the CC Photo Album and Resource Center. I'm going through the same process after re-stepping the mast on my 34+ this spring. Monty Scandia 1991 CC 34+ Annapolis, MD On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 11:59 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I took a good look at my furler, mast, shrouds and stays yesterday preparatory to trying to do some mast tuning. I am unsure as to the best way of going about this process and could use some advice. I found that I was raked somewhere between 18 and 24 inches aft, which is much too far by all accounts, so I want to bring the mast back to 6-12 inches. I have read the guides, but it is the specifics of different mast/shroud/stay combinations is what I am unsure about. It was more straightforward on my previous 34. My mast has no adjustment possible at the base or through deck unlike my old one. As near as I can tell, it is all done with shrouds and stays. The backstay is a split wire with a pinching car that runs up and down to control backstay tension. The backstay wires runs to two turnbuckles on the transom. The spreaders are only slightly swept back but the rod shrouds run to a position just behind the mast. One runs to the top of the mast and the other part way up, both passing through the same point on the lower spreader. The top ones are extremely tight, with no flex/sag on the leeward side when sailing upwind. The lowers are a bit less tight but still no sag. There is a third rod, which I am forgetting where it terminates on the mast, but presumably lower down. Forestay is on a Harken furler. So how to proceed (or wait for the Rendezvous and get all the great minds together for a tuning session!) 1. Should I disconnect the backstay before doing anything with the shrouds? The car on the split stay can only go so high without running out of wire, so even at its topmost position, it is putting some tension on the backstay. I can tie another line to it and let it run up further but it makes more sense to me to remove them altogether or loosen the turnbuckles as much as possible. 2. Presumably, I would then loosen all the shrouds and then tighten the bolt on the furler to bring the mast forward, then recheck rake after tightening the shrouds somewhat? 3. After adjusting rake, how would the tension of the backstay be adjusted? Presumably minimal tension with the car at its topmost position? The tightness of those turnbuckles is going to affect the amount of tension the adjuster is able to generate, so that would seem an important adjustment, but I have not seen any guide to how to set that. 4. When to check the rake? With the backstay loose/disconnected or in its nominal highest position? 5. One thought I have had is that before doing any of the above actions, I should recheck the rake with the backstay removed just to see if it makes any significant difference. I know they were removed to take the boat out of
Re: Stus-List mast tuning
Hi Monty- Thanks for pointing that out. I had read it a while ago, but forgot about it. One thing I still find confusing is the backstay. With the split wire backstay, no matter where you have the car, it is putting tension on the mast. The amount of tension would depend on the tightness of the turnbuckles in the back. So in what state do you measure the rake? With the backstay removed or with the adjuster in its loosest position? Once adjusted, how does one set those rear turnbuckles? Dave On Aug 2, 2015, at 9:44 AM, Monty Schumpert via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: David, Check out the article Rod Rigging -- Generic Tuning by Greg Cutter in the Do It Yourself section of the CC Photo Album and Resource Center. I'm going through the same process after re-stepping the mast on my 34+ this spring. Monty Scandia 1991 CC 34+ Annapolis, MD On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 11:59 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I took a good look at my furler, mast, shrouds and stays yesterday preparatory to trying to do some mast tuning. I am unsure as to the best way of going about this process and could use some advice. I found that I was raked somewhere between 18 and 24 inches aft, which is much too far by all accounts, so I want to bring the mast back to 6-12 inches. I have read the guides, but it is the specifics of different mast/shroud/stay combinations is what I am unsure about. It was more straightforward on my previous 34. My mast has no adjustment possible at the base or through deck unlike my old one. As near as I can tell, it is all done with shrouds and stays. The backstay is a split wire with a pinching car that runs up and down to control backstay tension. The backstay wires runs to two turnbuckles on the transom. The spreaders are only slightly swept back but the rod shrouds run to a position just behind the mast. One runs to the top of the mast and the other part way up, both passing through the same point on the lower spreader. The top ones are extremely tight, with no flex/sag on the leeward side when sailing upwind. The lowers are a bit less tight but still no sag. There is a third rod, which I am forgetting where it terminates on the mast, but presumably lower down. Forestay is on a Harken furler. So how to proceed (or wait for the Rendezvous and get all the great minds together for a tuning session!) 1. Should I disconnect the backstay before doing anything with the shrouds? The car on the split stay can only go so high without running out of wire, so even at its topmost position, it is putting some tension on the backstay. I can tie another line to it and let it run up further but it makes more sense to me to remove them altogether or loosen the turnbuckles as much as possible. 2. Presumably, I would then loosen all the shrouds and then tighten the bolt on the furler to bring the mast forward, then recheck rake after tightening the shrouds somewhat? 3. After adjusting rake, how would the tension of the backstay be adjusted? Presumably minimal tension with the car at its topmost position?The tightness of those turnbuckles is going to affect the amount of tension the adjuster is able to generate, so that would seem an important adjustment, but I have not seen any guide to how to set that. 4. When to check the rake? With the backstay loose/disconnected or in its nominal highest position? 5. One thought I have had is that before doing any of the above actions, I should recheck the rake with the backstay removed just to see if it makes any significant difference. I know they were removed to take the boat out of the water last fall and again in the spring, so how the yard guys re-tensioned them I have no idea and I have not further adjusted them. Thanks- Dave Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT pastedGraphic.tiff ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List mast tuning
David, Check out the article Rod Rigging -- Generic Tuning by Greg Cutter in the Do It Yourself section of the CC Photo Album and Resource Center. I'm going through the same process after re-stepping the mast on my 34+ this spring. Monty Scandia 1991 CC 34+ Annapolis, MD On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 11:59 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I took a good look at my furler, mast, shrouds and stays yesterday preparatory to trying to do some mast tuning. I am unsure as to the best way of going about this process and could use some advice. I found that I was raked somewhere between 18 and 24 inches aft, which is much too far by all accounts, so I want to bring the mast back to 6-12 inches. I have read the guides, but it is the specifics of different mast/shroud/stay combinations is what I am unsure about. It was more straightforward on my previous 34. My mast has no adjustment possible at the base or through deck unlike my old one. As near as I can tell, it is all done with shrouds and stays. The backstay is a split wire with a pinching car that runs up and down to control backstay tension. The backstay wires runs to two turnbuckles on the transom. The spreaders are only slightly swept back but the rod shrouds run to a position just behind the mast. One runs to the top of the mast and the other part way up, both passing through the same point on the lower spreader. The top ones are extremely tight, with no flex/sag on the leeward side when sailing upwind. The lowers are a bit less tight but still no sag. There is a third rod, which I am forgetting where it terminates on the mast, but presumably lower down. Forestay is on a Harken furler. So how to proceed (or wait for the Rendezvous and get all the great minds together for a tuning session!) 1. Should I disconnect the backstay before doing anything with the shrouds? The car on the split stay can only go so high without running out of wire, so even at its topmost position, it is putting some tension on the backstay. I can tie another line to it and let it run up further but it makes more sense to me to remove them altogether or loosen the turnbuckles as much as possible. 2. Presumably, I would then loosen all the shrouds and then tighten the bolt on the furler to bring the mast forward, then recheck rake after tightening the shrouds somewhat? 3. After adjusting rake, how would the tension of the backstay be adjusted? Presumably minimal tension with the car at its topmost position? The tightness of those turnbuckles is going to affect the amount of tension the adjuster is able to generate, so that would seem an important adjustment, but I have not seen any guide to how to set that. 4. When to check the rake? With the backstay loose/disconnected or in its nominal highest position? 5. One thought I have had is that before doing any of the above actions, I should recheck the rake with the backstay removed just to see if it makes any significant difference. I know they were removed to take the boat out of the water last fall and again in the spring, so how the yard guys re-tensioned them I have no idea and I have not further adjusted them. Thanks- Dave Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List mast tuning
David, I'm not sure you can change the rake without shortening the headstay or moving the foot. I think it is usually shortening the headstay. Why do you want to change the the rake? Too much weather helm? Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Jul 31, 2015 11:59 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I took a good look at my furler, mast, shrouds and stays yesterday preparatory to trying to do some mast tuning. I am unsure as to the best way of going about this process and could use some advice. I found that I was raked somewhere between 18 and 24 inches aft, which is much too far by all accounts, so I want to bring the mast back to 6-12 inches. I have read the guides, but it is the specifics of different mast/shroud/stay combinations is what I am unsure about. It was more straightforward on my previous 34. My mast has no adjustment possible at the base or through deck unlike my old one. As near as I can tell, it is all done with shrouds and stays. The backstay is a split wire with a pinching car that runs up and down to control backstay tension. The backstay wires runs to two turnbuckles on the transom. The spreaders are only slightly swept back but the rod shrouds run to a position just behind the mast. One runs to the top of the mast and the other part way up, both passing through the same point on the lower spreader. The top ones are extremely tight, with no flex/sag on the leeward side when sailing upwind. The lowers are a bit less tight but still no sag. There is a third rod, which I am forgetting where it terminates on the mast, but presumably lower down. Forestay is on a Harken furler. So how to proceed (or wait for the Rendezvous and get all the great minds together for a tuning session!) 1. Should I disconnect the backstay before doing anything with the shrouds? The car on the split stay can only go so high without running out of wire, so even at its topmost position, it is putting some tension on the backstay. I can tie another line to it and let it run up further but it makes more sense to me to remove them altogether or loosen the turnbuckles as much as possible. 2. Presumably, I would then loosen all the shrouds and then tighten the bolt on the furler to bring the mast forward, then recheck rake after tightening the shrouds somewhat? 3. After adjusting rake, how would the tension of the backstay be adjusted? Presumably minimal tension with the car at its topmost position? The tightness of those turnbuckles is going to affect the amount of tension the adjuster is able to generate, so that would seem an important adjustment, but I have not seen any guide to how to set that. 4. When to check the rake? With the backstay loose/disconnected or in its nominal highest position? 5. One thought I have had is that before doing any of the above actions, I should recheck the rake with the backstay removed just to see if it makes any significant difference. I know they were removed to take the boat out of the water last fall and again in the spring, so how the yard guys re-tensioned them I have no idea and I have not further adjusted them. Thanks- Dave Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
