Stus-List C 34 Moisture in rudder

[ssjohnson via CnC-List]

Just had my rudder rebuilt by Competition Composites in Ontario.  I have pics 
of the interior and shaft.  I had been removing the rudder every winter due to 
the water in the rudderso it didn't freeze. .. kept it in the heated 
garage...and let it drain a cup or more of black-brown ooze.   Wasn't a big 
deal to remove and replace it just a bit of a PITA with the quadrant and 
key.  No more removal and replacement cost about $5k with shipping (350 lbs 
to ship it to Ontariowaiting to see if it is much lighter shipping back...)
Spencer Johnson84 LF 38  "Alegria " #165Racine WI 


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Re: Stus-List C 34 Moisture in rudder

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Had mine done.  ~$5k!  According to the fiberglass tech, after thorough
deconstruction the rudder was "fine" but nobody would have been able to
tell.  When you go to sell the surveyor is gonna find it and the buyer's
insurance/mortgage company has a high probability of pumping the breaks
over it.

Here are the pictures and videos of mine.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yVUdWUDNxVGFUcDA

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD




On May 3, 2017 12:42 PM, "DON JONSSON via CnC-List" 
wrote:

Hi

I have a 1981 C 34 which I'm trying to sell, and now am concerned about
the issues on the boat.  The biggest one is the moisture in the rudder.

About a foot up from the bottom of the rudder there has been a small quasi
hole, about 1/16th of an inch, for quite a while.  When I hauled the boat
water would seep out of it.  This year when out of the water we drilled out
that hole and put another in the bottom.  A few drops came out, but when we
blew air in and when the boat heated, more came out, perhaps a cup or so.
We then sealed with epoxy and put the boat back in.  The rudder looks good,
as in no blisters, etc.   It pivots well with no sounds or odd vibrations.
But it is wet and could be / is compromised.

My questions are:

1. I'm assuming the rudder is filled with foam, and that foam on my boat is
saturated with water.  The foam is certainly delaminated from the
fiberglass in some places.  Does anyone have any diagrams or  knowledge of
how the rudder is constructed?

2. Has anyone had a similar problem?  What did you do?  What was the
approximate cost?  My reading on the net has shown answers from many boats
have water, don't worry about it to you will sink and die the next time you
go out.   OK, perhaps a bit of hyperbole.

3. Has anyone taken their rudder off while the boat is in the water using a
diver?  One person is recommending that as it is a busy time of year and
I'm not sure how long or how easy it is to crawl in the back and disconnect
quadrant, etc.  It is an old boat.  Also easier to leave the boat in the
water while the work is done.

Thanks you for your help.  I have some other questions but will put them in
different threads in the future.

Don

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Re: Stus-List C 34 Moisture in rudder

[John and Maryann Read via CnC-List]

Hi Don

 

We redid our rudder a few years ago.  Crawled into stern, loosened quadrant, 
cables, etc.  Dropped it, sawed off the skins both sides, about 4 inches in 
from the edge.  The rudder is built with a frame of solid glass edging all 
around of at least 4 inches – tapping will tell you where.  The exception is in 
the bottom at mid point the edge indents so there is minimal frame and only 
skin.  This is where any drainage hole needs to be.

 

Used a dremel to dig out a channel where the stainless rudder post enters the 
rudder – this is where the water gets in.  We dug out all the deteriorated old 
foam, basically the lower half, left the good stuff in place.  Shaped the foam. 
 Beveled edges of frame.  Applied several layers of glass with epoxy.  Barrier 
coat, paint, good to go

 

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of DON JONSSON 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2017 12:42 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: DON JONSSON
Subject: Stus-List C 34 Moisture in rudder

 

Hi

 

I have a 1981 C 34 which I'm trying to sell, and now am concerned about the 
issues on the boat.  The biggest one is the moisture in the rudder.

 

About a foot up from the bottom of the rudder there has been a small quasi 
hole, about 1/16th of an inch, for quite a while.  When I hauled the boat water 
would seep out of it.  This year when out of the water we drilled out that hole 
and put another in the bottom.  A few drops came out, but when we blew air in 
and when the boat heated, more came out, perhaps a cup or so.  We then sealed 
with epoxy and put the boat back in.  The rudder looks good, as in no blisters, 
etc.   It pivots well with no sounds or odd vibrations. But it is wet and could 
be / is compromised.

 

My questions are:

 

1. I'm assuming the rudder is filled with foam, and that foam on my boat is 
saturated with water.  The foam is certainly delaminated from the fiberglass in 
some places.  Does anyone have any diagrams or  knowledge of how the rudder is 
constructed?

 

2. Has anyone had a similar problem?  What did you do?  What was the 
approximate cost?  My reading on the net has shown answers from many boats have 
water, don't worry about it to you will sink and die the next time you go out.  
 OK, perhaps a bit of hyperbole.

 

3. Has anyone taken their rudder off while the boat is in the water using a 
diver?  One person is recommending that as it is a busy time of year and I'm 
not sure how long or how easy it is to crawl in the back and disconnect 
quadrant, etc.  It is an old boat.  Also easier to leave the boat in the water 
while the work is done.

 

Thanks you for your help.  I have some other questions but will put them in 
different threads in the future.

 

Don

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Re: Stus-List C 34 Moisture in rudder

[John Irvin via CnC-List]

We do one on the bottom, one about 4-5 inches up, and one 3-4 inches from the 
top. Always on the trailing edge. Use 5/16 set screws and drive them in flush.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 3, 2017, at 4:14 PM, J Roger via CnC-List 
> wrote:

Can I send you a PM John? About the C Rudder? Wondering if you could show 
where to drill.Much Obliged. JB

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 1:15 PM, John Irvin via CnC-List 
> wrote:
On my 27-III we had water in the rudder. When we drilled escape holes,   one 
higher up to prevent vacuum effect, we tapped them. Now in the fall we pull the 
set screws and water comes out - maybe a few ounces. The winter cold causes the 
rest to efflorescence so in the spring we re-insert the set screws in a dry 
rudder. Has worked for a dozen years or so. John Irvin Firefly 691

Sent from my iPhone

On May 3, 2017, at 12:42 PM, DON JONSSON via CnC-List 
> wrote:

Hi

I have a 1981 C 34 which I'm trying to sell, and now am concerned about the 
issues on the boat.  The biggest one is the moisture in the rudder.

About a foot up from the bottom of the rudder there has been a small quasi 
hole, about 1/16th of an inch, for quite a while.  When I hauled the boat water 
would seep out of it.  This year when out of the water we drilled out that hole 
and put another in the bottom.  A few drops came out, but when we blew air in 
and when the boat heated, more came out, perhaps a cup or so.  We then sealed 
with epoxy and put the boat back in.  The rudder looks good, as in no blisters, 
etc.   It pivots well with no sounds or odd vibrations. But it is wet and could 
be / is compromised.

My questions are:

1. I'm assuming the rudder is filled with foam, and that foam on my boat is 
saturated with water.  The foam is certainly delaminated from the fiberglass in 
some places.  Does anyone have any diagrams or  knowledge of how the rudder is 
constructed?

2. Has anyone had a similar problem?  What did you do?  What was the 
approximate cost?  My reading on the net has shown answers from many boats have 
water, don't worry about it to you will sink and die the next time you go out.  
 OK, perhaps a bit of hyperbole.

3. Has anyone taken their rudder off while the boat is in the water using a 
diver?  One person is recommending that as it is a busy time of year and I'm 
not sure how long or how easy it is to crawl in the back and disconnect 
quadrant, etc.  It is an old boat.  Also easier to leave the boat in the water 
while the work is done.

Thanks you for your help.  I have some other questions but will put them in 
different threads in the future.

Don
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List C 34 Moisture in rudder

[J Roger via CnC-List]

Can I send you a PM John? About the C Rudder? Wondering if you could
show where to drill.Much Obliged. JB

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 1:15 PM, John Irvin via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> On my 27-III we had water in the rudder. When we drilled escape holes,
> one higher up to prevent vacuum effect, we tapped them. Now in the fall we
> pull the set screws and water comes out - maybe a few ounces. The winter
> cold causes the rest to efflorescence so in the spring we re-insert the set
> screws in a dry rudder. Has worked for a dozen years or so. John Irvin
> Firefly 691
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 3, 2017, at 12:42 PM, DON JONSSON via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> I have a 1981 C 34 which I'm trying to sell, and now am concerned about
> the issues on the boat.  The biggest one is the moisture in the rudder.
>
> About a foot up from the bottom of the rudder there has been a small quasi
> hole, about 1/16th of an inch, for quite a while.  When I hauled the boat
> water would seep out of it.  This year when out of the water we drilled out
> that hole and put another in the bottom.  A few drops came out, but when we
> blew air in and when the boat heated, more came out, perhaps a cup or so.
> We then sealed with epoxy and put the boat back in.  The rudder looks good,
> as in no blisters, etc.   It pivots well with no sounds or odd vibrations.
> But it is wet and could be / is compromised.
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1. I'm assuming the rudder is filled with foam, and that foam on my boat
> is saturated with water.  The foam is certainly delaminated from the
> fiberglass in some places.  Does anyone have any diagrams or  knowledge of
> how the rudder is constructed?
>
> 2. Has anyone had a similar problem?  What did you do?  What was the
> approximate cost?  My reading on the net has shown answers from many boats
> have water, don't worry about it to you will sink and die the next time you
> go out.   OK, perhaps a bit of hyperbole.
>
> 3. Has anyone taken their rudder off while the boat is in the water using
> a diver?  One person is recommending that as it is a busy time of year and
> I'm not sure how long or how easy it is to crawl in the back and disconnect
> quadrant, etc.  It is an old boat.  Also easier to leave the boat in the
> water while the work is done.
>
> Thanks you for your help.  I have some other questions but will put them
> in different threads in the future.
>
> Don
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

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Re: Stus-List C 34 Moisture in rudder

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

The rudder on my 34 remarkably did not have this common issue.  Typically, 
owners drill a hole in the bottom of the rudder when the boat is hauled in the 
fall, let it drain all winter, then seal the hole before spring launch.  Sounds 
like what you did.

The rudder on my 42 had this issue and I decided to repair it.  My repair guru 
removed the rudder when the boat was on the hard.  He drilled a large number of 
holes through the surface layer of glass (on one side as I recall), placed it 
in a “oven box” that he made out of plywood (with a heat source) to raise the 
temperature so the water would evaporate out the holes, moisture-metered the 
rudder after baking it for a few weeks, refilled all the holes with West System 
epoxy, faired it, then put about six or eight coats of Interlux barrier coat on 
the outside.  I believe he also sealed the top of the rudder where the post 
enters, but on my boat that location is out of the water when the boat is 
sitting at the dock (I believe the 34 is the same way).  The work was labor 
intensive; I’d estimate about $1500.

I’d be concerned about removing the rudder with the boat in the water for two 
reasons: 1) dropping it; and 2) getting it back in place after repairs.

From: DON JONSSON via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2017 12:41 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: DON JONSSON 
Subject: Stus-List C 34 Moisture in rudder

Hi

I have a 1981 C 34 which I'm trying to sell, and now am concerned about the 
issues on the boat.  The biggest one is the moisture in the rudder.

About a foot up from the bottom of the rudder there has been a small quasi 
hole, about 1/16th of an inch, for quite a while.  When I hauled the boat water 
would seep out of it.  This year when out of the water we drilled out that hole 
and put another in the bottom.  A few drops came out, but when we blew air in 
and when the boat heated, more came out, perhaps a cup or so.  We then sealed 
with epoxy and put the boat back in.  The rudder looks good, as in no blisters, 
etc.   It pivots well with no sounds or odd vibrations. But it is wet and could 
be / is compromised.

My questions are:

1. I'm assuming the rudder is filled with foam, and that foam on my boat is 
saturated with water.  The foam is certainly delaminated from the fiberglass in 
some places.  Does anyone have any diagrams or  knowledge of how the rudder is 
constructed?

2. Has anyone had a similar problem?  What did you do?  What was the 
approximate cost?  My reading on the net has shown answers from many boats have 
water, don't worry about it to you will sink and die the next time you go out.  
 OK, perhaps a bit of hyperbole.

3. Has anyone taken their rudder off while the boat is in the water using a 
diver?  One person is recommending that as it is a busy time of year and I'm 
not sure how long or how easy it is to crawl in the back and disconnect 
quadrant, etc.  It is an old boat.  Also easier to leave the boat in the water 
while the work is done.

Thanks you for your help.  I have some other questions but will put them in 
different threads in the future.

Don



___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List C 34 Moisture in rudder

[John Irvin via CnC-List]

On my 27-III we had water in the rudder. When we drilled escape holes,   one 
higher up to prevent vacuum effect, we tapped them. Now in the fall we pull the 
set screws and water comes out - maybe a few ounces. The winter cold causes the 
rest to efflorescence so in the spring we re-insert the set screws in a dry 
rudder. Has worked for a dozen years or so. John Irvin Firefly 691

Sent from my iPhone

On May 3, 2017, at 12:42 PM, DON JONSSON via CnC-List 
> wrote:

Hi

I have a 1981 C 34 which I'm trying to sell, and now am concerned about the 
issues on the boat.  The biggest one is the moisture in the rudder.

About a foot up from the bottom of the rudder there has been a small quasi 
hole, about 1/16th of an inch, for quite a while.  When I hauled the boat water 
would seep out of it.  This year when out of the water we drilled out that hole 
and put another in the bottom.  A few drops came out, but when we blew air in 
and when the boat heated, more came out, perhaps a cup or so.  We then sealed 
with epoxy and put the boat back in.  The rudder looks good, as in no blisters, 
etc.   It pivots well with no sounds or odd vibrations. But it is wet and could 
be / is compromised.

My questions are:

1. I'm assuming the rudder is filled with foam, and that foam on my boat is 
saturated with water.  The foam is certainly delaminated from the fiberglass in 
some places.  Does anyone have any diagrams or  knowledge of how the rudder is 
constructed?

2. Has anyone had a similar problem?  What did you do?  What was the 
approximate cost?  My reading on the net has shown answers from many boats have 
water, don't worry about it to you will sink and die the next time you go out.  
 OK, perhaps a bit of hyperbole.

3. Has anyone taken their rudder off while the boat is in the water using a 
diver?  One person is recommending that as it is a busy time of year and I'm 
not sure how long or how easy it is to crawl in the back and disconnect 
quadrant, etc.  It is an old boat.  Also easier to leave the boat in the water 
while the work is done.

Thanks you for your help.  I have some other questions but will put them in 
different threads in the future.

Don
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List C 34 Moisture in rudder

[DON JONSSON via CnC-List]

Hi 

I have a 1981 C 34 which I'm trying to sell, and now am concerned about the 
issues on the boat. The biggest one is the moisture in the rudder. 

About a foot up from the bottom of the rudder there has been a small quasi 
hole, about 1/16th of an inch, for quite a while. When I hauled the boat water 
would seep out of it. This year when out of the water we drilled out that hole 
and put another in the bottom. A few drops came out, but when we blew air in 
and when the boat heated, more came out, perhaps a cup or so. We then sealed 
with epoxy and put the boat back in. The rudder looks good, as in no blisters, 
etc. It pivots well with no sounds or odd vibrations. But it is wet and could 
be / is compromised. 

My questions are: 

1. I'm assuming the rudder is filled with foam, and that foam on my boat is 
saturated with water. The foam is certainly delaminated from the fiberglass in 
some places. Does anyone have any diagrams or knowledge of how the rudder is 
constructed? 

2. Has anyone had a similar problem? What did you do? What was the approximate 
cost? My reading on the net has shown answers from many boats have water, don't 
worry about it to you will sink and die the next time you go out. OK, perhaps a 
bit of hyperbole. 

3. Has anyone taken their rudder off while the boat is in the water using a 
diver? One person is recommending that as it is a busy time of year and I'm not 
sure how long or how easy it is to crawl in the back and disconnect quadrant, 
etc. It is an old boat. Also easier to leave the boat in the water while the 
work is done. 

Thanks you for your help. I have some other questions but will put them in 
different threads in the future. 

Don 
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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