Re: Stus-List C 33 mkii mast step revisited
Nick did the work on my 33 mkii. The PO had a hard grounding and that's really where the mast step becomes a problem. Sooner or later most of us seem to run aground, so i'd recommend the step re-inforcement. Mike Atacama 33 mkii Toronto Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell. -Original Message- From: Dave via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Sender: "CnC-List" <cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 20:48:18 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Reply-To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: <syerd...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List C 33 mkii mast step revisited ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List C 33 mkii mast step revisited
Dave, A fellow club member with a 33-2 had big problems with his mast step to the point that he couldn't keep his rig tight. He did allot of rebuilding inside the boat, including the cavity under the step that is filled with high density foam. After 30+ years it breaks down and you can't get proper torque on the leading keel bolt. If you have the "smile" on the leading portion of the keel where it beds up against the fiberglass hull, I would guess that you no longer have the support under the mast step that you need, and tightening the keel bolt just starts to compress the step adding to the problem. This has been a common issue on several C models. I have a 35-3 that needed repair for that reason. Not an easy fix, but it can be done. If you want to share you email address, I will send you pictures of the my 35-3 fix. Doug _/)~~~_/) -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Dave Syer via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 12:01 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Dave Syer Subject: Stus-List C 33 mkii mast step revisited Hi All, So I checked the various posts and photos available, and chatted with one lister, but I have yet to see a really clear description of outright failure of the mast step area, other than repeat references to the 33ii collapsing mast step syndrome, and the assertion that the construction is inadequate. So, I took my (unfailed) boat apart, 'cuz, well, that's what I do... The mast sits in a rectangular cast-alloy base, that is longer and wider than the mast itself. This allows mostly for shimming fore and aft to adjust mast rake. The alloy base sits on the 'glass liner, which sits on a piece of 3/4"plywood, which sits on a pile of putty,(bog) which sits on a built up section of glass where one of the keel bolts penetrates and on a fabricated fiberglass cross-member spans the bilge, athwartships. This cross-member (aka "floor timber") is a hollow fiberglass beam which is semi-elliptical in section. (like an inverted trough.) It is part of the "spider" or whatever they called it, which stiffens the hull. The mast is still stepped, so I can't yet go further, but for now I can see three areas of potential failure: 1: The wood can deteriorate allowing the mast to settle by its thickness, 2: the putty could fracture crumble, move, fail, - ditto, 3: worst of all, the cross-member could conceivably collapse, allowing the mast to settle by some portion of its height. This would not be good If my mast step has settled, it's not by much. To me, the wood and putty part is kind of cheesy, and I'll re-do that anyway because it bugs me and I think wood in a wet place is bad news. The crossmember looks really strong, and while I have this apart I could get clever and reinforce it, but it may be totally unnecessary. Has anyone actually observed the mode of this particular failure? Can anyone confirm that this crossmember has been a failure point in normal use and has contributed to this purported flaw in the boat? Thanks! Dave BTW, I will document and post this work for the benefit of future generations. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List C 33 mkii mast step revisited
Dave, At least the mast is not in the bilge like on my Pearson! I have not done a mast step repair, but there may be plywood under the fiberglass cross member (partner?). If the rig tension does not change over time, your mast step is still solid. Joel 35/3 Annapolis On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:00 PM, Dave Syer via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Hi All, > > So I checked the various posts and photos available, and chatted with one > lister, but I have yet to see a really clear description of outright > failure of the mast step area, other than repeat references to the 33ii > collapsing mast step syndrome, and the assertion that the construction is > inadequate. So, I took my (unfailed) boat apart, 'cuz, well, that's what I > do... > > The mast sits in a rectangular cast-alloy base, that is longer and wider > than the mast itself. This allows mostly for shimming fore and aft to > adjust mast rake. > The alloy base sits on the 'glass liner, which sits on a piece of > 3/4"plywood, which sits on a pile of putty,(bog) which sits on a built up > section of glass where one of the keel bolts penetrates and on a fabricated > fiberglass cross-member spans the bilge, athwartships. This cross-member > (aka "floor timber") is a hollow fiberglass beam which is semi-elliptical > in section. (like an inverted trough.) It is part of the "spider" or > whatever they called it, which stiffens the hull. > > The mast is still stepped, so I can't yet go further, but for now I can > see three areas of potential failure: > > 1: The wood can deteriorate allowing the mast to settle by its thickness, > 2: the putty could fracture crumble, move, fail, - ditto, > 3: worst of all, the cross-member could conceivably collapse, allowing the > mast to settle by some portion of its height. This would not be good > > If my mast step has settled, it's not by much. To me, the wood and putty > part is kind of cheesy, and I'll re-do that anyway because it bugs me and > I think wood in a wet place is bad news. The crossmember looks really > strong, and while I have this apart I could get clever and reinforce it, > but it may be totally unnecessary. > > Has anyone actually observed the mode of this particular failure? Can > anyone confirm that this crossmember has been a failure point in normal use > and has contributed to this purported flaw in the boat? > > Thanks! Dave > > BTW, I will document and post this work for the benefit of future > generations. > > > > ___ > > Email address: > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the > bottom of page at: > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > > > -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List C 33 mkii mast step revisited
Hi All, So I checked the various posts and photos available, and chatted with one lister, but I have yet to see a really clear description of outright failure of the mast step area, other than repeat references to the 33ii collapsing mast step syndrome, and the assertion that the construction is inadequate. So, I took my (unfailed) boat apart, 'cuz, well, that's what I do... The mast sits in a rectangular cast-alloy base, that is longer and wider than the mast itself. This allows mostly for shimming fore and aft to adjust mast rake. The alloy base sits on the 'glass liner, which sits on a piece of 3/4"plywood, which sits on a pile of putty,(bog) which sits on a built up section of glass where one of the keel bolts penetrates and on a fabricated fiberglass cross-member spans the bilge, athwartships. This cross-member (aka "floor timber") is a hollow fiberglass beam which is semi-elliptical in section. (like an inverted trough.) It is part of the "spider" or whatever they called it, which stiffens the hull. The mast is still stepped, so I can't yet go further, but for now I can see three areas of potential failure: 1: The wood can deteriorate allowing the mast to settle by its thickness, 2: the putty could fracture crumble, move, fail, - ditto, 3: worst of all, the cross-member could conceivably collapse, allowing the mast to settle by some portion of its height. This would not be good If my mast step has settled, it's not by much. To me, the wood and putty part is kind of cheesy, and I'll re-do that anyway because it bugs me and I think wood in a wet place is bad news. The crossmember looks really strong, and while I have this apart I could get clever and reinforce it, but it may be totally unnecessary. Has anyone actually observed the mode of this particular failure? Can anyone confirm that this crossmember has been a failure point in normal use and has contributed to this purported flaw in the boat? Thanks! Dave BTW, I will document and post this work for the benefit of future generations. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List C 33 mkii mast step revisited
Some years back, a fellow club member had a 1985 C 33 IIthe cavity under the mast step that is filled with high density foam got 'contaminated' and the smell was very unpleasant. We tried disinfecting with every obvious chemical but to no avail. The cavity had to be cleaned out and it was filled with West System resinno small job but a necessary one if you wanted to spend any time in the cabin. Rob Abbott AZURA C 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2015-10-01 1:49 PM, Doug Allardyce via CnC-List wrote: Dave, A fellow club member with a 33-2 had big problems with his mast step to the point that he couldn't keep his rig tight. He did allot of rebuilding inside the boat, including the cavity under the step that is filled with high density foam. After 30+ years it breaks down and you can't get proper torque on the leading keel bolt. If you have the "smile" on the leading portion of the keel where it beds up against the fiberglass hull, I would guess that you no longer have the support under the mast step that you need, and tightening the keel bolt just starts to compress the step adding to the problem. This has been a common issue on several C models. I have a 35-3 that needed repair for that reason. Not an easy fix, but it can be done. If you want to share you email address, I will send you pictures of the my 35-3 fix. Doug _/)~~~_/) -Original Message- *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]*On Behalf Of *Dave Syer via CnC-List *Sent:* Thursday, October 01, 2015 12:01 PM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Cc:* Dave Syer *Subject:* Stus-List C 33 mkii mast step revisited Hi All, So I checked the various posts and photos available, and chatted with one lister, but I have yet to see a really clear description of outright failure of the mast step area, other than repeat references to the 33ii collapsing mast step syndrome, and the assertion that the construction is inadequate. So, I took my (unfailed) boat apart, 'cuz, well, that's what I do... The mast sits in a rectangular cast-alloy base, that is longer and wider than the mast itself. This allows mostly for shimming fore and aft to adjust mast rake. The alloy base sits on the 'glass liner, which sits on a piece of 3/4"plywood, which sits on a pile of putty,(bog) which sits on a built up section of glass where one of the keel bolts penetrates and on a fabricated fiberglass cross-member spans the bilge, athwartships. This cross-member (aka "floor timber") is a hollow fiberglass beam which is semi-elliptical in section. (like an inverted trough.) It is part of the "spider" or whatever they called it, which stiffens the hull. The mast is still stepped, so I can't yet go further, but for now I can see three areas of potential failure: 1: The wood can deteriorate allowing the mast to settle by its thickness, 2: the putty could fracture crumble, move, fail, - ditto, 3: worst of all, the cross-member could conceivably collapse, allowing the mast to settle by some portion of its height. This would not be good If my mast step has settled, it's not by much. To me, the wood and putty part is kind of cheesy, and I'll re-do that anyway because it bugs me and I think wood in a wet place is bad news. The crossmember looks really strong, and while I have this apart I could get clever and reinforce it, but it may be totally unnecessary. Has anyone actually observed the mode of this particular failure? Can anyone confirm that this crossmember has been a failure point in normal use and has contributed to this purported flaw in the boat? Thanks! Dave BTW, I will document and post this work for the benefit of future generations. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List C 33 mkii mast step revisited
Doug, I would like to see the pics of your 35-iii fix as well Mike Amirault amira...@eastlink.ca C 33 MKii Lovely Cruise SMSC___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List C 33 mkii mast step revisited
Thanks for the input gentlemen. I would welcome any more insight and look forward to Doug's 35iii photos, off-list as well. I will add to the discussion the following excerpt from an email reply from nick at Bristol marine, in response to my request for an estimate on re-bedding the keel and filling the smile: >snip However, based on our long experience repairing C's, in particular the 33 Mk II, 35 Mk III, & the 41, all of which have the ballast attached to the hull at the end of a very deep keel sump, there may be more serious structural issues involved, particularly if the boat has been aground at any point in its life. The key indicator of more serious issues are exterior stress cracks (sometimes obvious, sometimes subtle) at the radius where the fin meets the hull, particularly at the leading & trailing edges. Other signs of trouble are cracks or delamination where the interior structural grid meets the keel sump, delaminated tabbing at the bottom of the main bulkhead port & stb, or signs that the mast step is sagging. If in doubt, have an experienced surveyor familiar with these issues look at the boat. i.e. Bill Provis, 416-801-5527; Peter McGuire 416-809-2186; or Wallace Gouk 416-526-3845 >snip I also spent some more time learning how to search past posts and picked up a little more info, though one question not answered was: How do you get the foul smelling, deteriorating foam out of the crossmember? Looking forward to getting mine further apart and - if nothing else- reinforcing this potentially weak area. Dave. Sent from my iPad___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
