Re: Stus-List Low Viscosity Epoxy

[Jack Shincke via CnC-List]

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 10, 2016, at 11:37 AM, Paul Baker via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Make a big drink, find a comfy chair and have a read of some wooden boat 
> forums and see what people's opinions are on "penetrating epoxy" products 
> such as CPE etc.
> Cheers,
> Paul.
> 
> Orange Crush
> 27MkII
> Sidney, BC.
> 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Sam Salter 
> via CnC-List
> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 12:46 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Sam Salter <sam.c.sal...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Stus-List Low Viscosity Epoxy
> 
>  
> 
> Where do you guys get the very low viscosity resin that soaks into wood end 
> grain?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> sam :-)
> 
> C 26 Liquorice
> 
> Ghost Lake Alberta
> 
> 
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Re: Stus-List Low Viscosity Epoxy

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Sam,

The penetrating epoxy is kinda volatile so you might have difficulty 
with a US firm shipping across the border.


The two Canadian Manufacturers I like to deal with are Systems 3 and 
Industrial Formulators. They both started out in Lower Mainland area, B.C.


My last purchase was System Three (regular epoxy as barrier coat 
under Inter 2000)  'cause they were cheaper :)

https://systemthree.com/collections/rot-repair

Did I mention I also have a wooden boat?

Cheers, Russ
Sweet,  35 mk-1
Salerosa, Atkins - Margery Daw - 40'

At 09:45 AM 10/03/2016, you wrote:
Where do you guys get the very low viscosity resin that soaks into 
wood end grain?

Thanks
sam :-)
C 26 Liquorice
Ghost Lake Alberta
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Re: Stus-List Low Viscosity Epoxy

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I didn't catch that part but what I do remember is that IIRC you had to mix
the entire batch.  Use it or loose it.  At $20 its just a little too pricey
to loose it.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Mar 10, 2016 6:05 PM, "sthoma20--- via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> For what it is worth, I took a look at  the Git Rot product at West Marine
> last week and did not make a purchase. The directions say specifically that
> it is intended only to be used in a contained space, such as in a rotted
> balsa core, and is not suitable to be painted on. I forget the rest but it
> sounded like it does not make a good surface when exposed to air.
> Am I interpreting this right?
>
> Steve Thomas
> C - with lots of rotten wood
> Merritt Island, FL
>
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Re: Stus-List Low Viscosity Epoxy

[sthoma20--- via CnC-List]

For what it is worth, I took a look at  the Git Rot product at West Marine last 
week and did not make a purchase. The directions say specifically that it is 
intended only to be used in a contained space, such as in a rotted balsa core, 
and is not suitable to be painted on. I forget the rest but it sounded like it 
does not make a good surface when exposed to air. 
Am I interpreting this right?

Steve Thomas
C - with lots of rotten wood
Merritt Island, FL

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Re: Stus-List Low Viscosity Epoxy

[Sam Salter via CnC-List]

  Thanks guys, that’s plenty of information to locate what I need! sam :-)From: Sam SalterSent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 10:45 AMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comSubject: Low Viscosity Epoxy  Where do you guys get the very low viscosity resin that soaks into wood end grain?Thankssam :-)C 26 LiquoriceGhost Lake Alberta


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Re: Stus-List Low Viscosity Epoxy

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I've been using Smith's CPES.  Seems as good as anything.  The value seems
better.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Mar 10, 2016 12:46 PM, "Sam Salter via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Where do you guys get the very low viscosity resin that soaks into wood
> end grain?
> Thanks
> sam :-)
> C 26 Liquorice
> Ghost Lake Alberta
>
> ___
>
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Re: Stus-List Low Viscosity Epoxy

[Paul Baker via CnC-List]

Make a big drink, find a comfy chair and have a read of some wooden boat forums 
and see what people's opinions are on "penetrating epoxy" products such as CPE 
etc.Cheers,Paul.
Orange Crush27MkIISidney, BC.


  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Sam Salter 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 12:46 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Sam Salter <sam.c.sal...@gmail.com>
Subject: Stus-List Low Viscosity Epoxy Where do you guys get the very low 
viscosity resin that soaks into wood end grain?Thankssam :-)C 26 
LiquoriceGhost Lake Alberta
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Re: Stus-List Low Viscosity Epoxy

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

West Marine sells both Git Rot, and their own version which is essentially the 
same thing but at a lower price point. The WM version also comes in 2 different 
size kits, so you can buy an amount appropriate to the size of your project.

 

Our local Lowes store also sells a penetrating epoxy kit with resin and 
hardener to make 16 oz of epoxy. Working time is supposed to be 60 minutes to 
allow penetration of the wood. So you might try a home improvement store or 
hardware store in your area if there is no marine chandlery/boat dealer in your 
area.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Sam Salter 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 12:46 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Sam Salter <sam.c.sal...@gmail.com>
Subject: Stus-List Low Viscosity Epoxy

 

Where do you guys get the very low viscosity resin that soaks into wood end 
grain?

Thanks

sam :-)

C 26 Liquorice

Ghost Lake Alberta

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Re: Stus-List Low Viscosity Epoxy

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=1268


On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 12:45 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Where do you guys get the very low viscosity resin that soaks into wood
> end grain?
> Thanks
> sam :-)
> C 26 Liquorice
> Ghost Lake Alberta
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Stus-List Low Viscosity Epoxy

[Sam Salter via CnC-List]

 Where do you guys get the very low viscosity resin that soaks into wood end grain?Thankssam :-)C 26 LiquoriceGhost Lake Alberta

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Stus-List Low viscosity Epoxy was Re: Subject: Re: Keel

[Dave Syer via CnC-List]

Not an expert but I would mix a thickened batch of epoxy loaded with
cab-o-sil and chopped glass, trowel it in place then set a fitted
waxed-paper wrapped piece of stiff, flat, plastic on top, bored for the
bolt holes, fitted to bilge,  and spin on the the keel bolt until you get
some squeeze out.  radius the edges of the squeeze out with a tongue
depressor or similar.   When the epoxy gels, then give it a wipe with an
acetone dampened rag, this will smooth/fair it.   After it kicks remove the
plastic piece and give it a light sand, then a coat of unfilled epoxy and
it will have a glossy, easy to clean surface.Make sure you protect the
keel bolts by wrapping it with waxed paper (several wraps).  Make sure you
prep the surface first.

Dave


Subject:
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Not not hijack this tread, I changed the subject. Since we seem to have
epoxy experts here.

I am trying to take out some slight unevenness from the bottom of my bilge
so that my keel bolt washers have an even contact.
 Can I use some low viscosity epoxy, just pour it into the bilge, probably
dam of the area around the keel bolt with some tape, and let gravity do the
leveling.
We are talking maybe 1/4 in thickness at the highest point.
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Re: Stus-List Low viscosity Epoxy was Re: Subject: Re: Keel repair

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Well, there aren't any absolute answers.  Some solutions are just better
than others.

I like epoxy for injecting, flowing and uneven surfaces.  It is much less
viscous than most putties.  It fills voids if you don't mix it too thick.
Like many of us listers, the best technique is to coat the adhering
surfaces with neat (unthickened) epoxy and then follow it with the
thickened epoxy.  Just last week I helped a boat owner fill a channel on
his boat where the wood core had rotted out.  We drilled a few holes on the
top of the channel and injected thickened epoxy.  We knew we had a good
cavity fill when we saw the epoxy starting to show in the next hole in
line.

I use thickened epoxy for overbored deck penetrations through core. I
usually coat the core with neat epoxy then inject thickened.

I like thickened epoxy for creating radius fillet joints.  Mix it to a
mayonnaise consistency, slop it in the joint and shape it with the backside
of a plastic spoon.  I would also use it under the keel bolt washers or
plates which started this whole discussion.

I also use marine grade vinylester putty, a lot.  Generally, I'm repairing
shallow hull or deck damage where strength is not critical.  There are two
kinds, high strength and regular.  The high strength is primarily know as a
filler for blisters and shallow spots.  The regular putty is used for
fairing and smoothing and has little strength.  Its primary advange is ease
of sanding.  I fill pinholes with marine grade glazing putty.  Generally, I
use vinylester under gelcoat.

Vinylester putty doesn't flow well.  Nor does it fill voids well.  If the
adhering surface is irregular, I try to sand or grind it to a flat or
nearly flat surface prior to applying the putty.  When I apply the putty, I
am careful to apply it using strokes in several different directions.  If
you simply swipe it on in one direction, it tends to leave voids.

I almost never use "kitty hair" vinylester products.  I find they are hard
to work with and leave lots of voids.  Like Martin, I never use automotive
grade products.

When you use any of these products, you need to be mindful of getting a
complete mixing of the product and activator while not creating a lot of
bubbles in the mix.  There are lots of little technique tips that you learn
through experience.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandevile, LA



On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 12:36 PM, Ahmet via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Not not hijack this tread, I changed the subject. Since we seem to have
> epoxy experts here.
>
> I am trying to take out some slight unevenness from the bottom of my bilge
> so that my keel bolt washers have an even contact.
>  Can I use some low viscosity epoxy, just pour it into the bilge, probably
> dam of the area around the keel bolt with some tape, and let gravity do the
> leveling.
> We are talking maybe 1/4 in thickness at the highest point.
>
> I was originally thinking of using Marine-Tex but there are some areas
> which are a bit awkward to get to.
>
>
> The issue is that At 200 lbs-ft the clamping force is about 12,000 lbs. So
> I need something that will not crumble under the pressure.
>
> So the problem is to be low viscosity yet high compression strength.
> Thank you
> Ahmet
> C 25
> Boston, MA
>
>
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Stus-List Low viscosity Epoxy was Re: Subject: Re: Keel repair

[Ahmet via CnC-List]

Not not hijack this tread, I changed the subject. Since we seem to have
epoxy experts here.

I am trying to take out some slight unevenness from the bottom of my bilge
so that my keel bolt washers have an even contact.
 Can I use some low viscosity epoxy, just pour it into the bilge, probably
dam of the area around the keel bolt with some tape, and let gravity do the
leveling.
We are talking maybe 1/4 in thickness at the highest point.

I was originally thinking of using Marine-Tex but there are some areas
which are a bit awkward to get to.


The issue is that At 200 lbs-ft the clamping force is about 12,000 lbs. So
I need something that will not crumble under the pressure.

So the problem is to be low viscosity yet high compression strength.
Thank you
Ahmet
C 25
Boston, MA


On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Dave Syer via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> In my case, was not suggesting it is superior, I just prefer to purchase
> the raw materials.   This way, I can use unfilled as a first coat, make a
> putty for the fill, and laminate at the end.   Same epoxy, sometimes even
> the same batch for multiple applications/jobs. YMMV.
> Dave
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 8:49 AM, David Knecht 
> wrote:
>
>> I really don’t understand why people think that epoxy resin thickened
>> with stuff to bring it to the consistency of putty is better to use than
>> epoxy putty designed for the purpose.  They are equally hard and equally
>> stiff.  Am I missing something?  Dave
>>
>> Aries
>> 1990 C 34+
>> New London, CT
>>
>>
>> On Nov 23, 2015, at 11:05 AM, Syerdave--- via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> For lead keel repair I think I'd just "clean" it very aggressively with
>> an angle grinder and a new, very coarse disk, then immediately paint it
>> with unfilled epoxy.  While that is curing to its "B" stage, mix up a very
>> stiff batch of epoxy filled with fumed silica and chopped glass.   Fill it
>> when the first coat is gelled/tacky.  if its a huge crater, i might take
>> two layers, (and a real good look for structural damage elsewhere) apply
>> the second while the first is at its B stage.  To finish that you could lay
>> light glass cloth or better, just peel-ply on top while still pliable/wet
>> and fair it pretty well with a plastic squeegee.
>> I've never seen the aft edge of a keel fail.  In the absence of an
>> issues, I'm not sure I'd worry about that.  My 33ii has a very thin
>> trailing edge, still intact after 30 years.
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
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>> bottom of page at:
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>>
>>
>>
>
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>


-- 
---
Ahmet
*"S/V Waterdancer"* 1990 Irwin 43 CC
"Tabasco" 1973 C 25
Winthrop Yacht Club, Winthrop, MA / USA
---
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Re: Stus-List Low viscosity Epoxy was Re: Subject: Re: Keel repair

[Martin DeYoung via CnC-List]

I recommend a small amount of thickened epoxy under a piece of G10.  If you use 
a low viscosity (read un-filled) epoxy it may not be reliable under the keel 
bolt clamping force.

If I was performing the same repair on Calypso I would clean / roughen the 
area, butter in some thickened epoxy, place a layer of glass cloth or mat (to 
prevent squeezing out all the epoxy) and top it with the shaped G10.  I would 
butter the bottom of the G10 with thickened epoxy.  Add a little weight or 
clamping pressure to compress the lamination to the desired height checking to 
be sure it is close to parallel with the bottom of the nut.

If there is a concern of epoxy bonding to the keel bolt or nut there are 
several mold release products and tapes available.  Peel ply used in vacuum 
bagging can be very useful.  Let me know if you go this route and need a small 
piece.

Martin DeYoung
Calypso
1971 C 43
Seattle

[Description: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F]

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ahmet via 
CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 10:36 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Ahmet
Subject: Stus-List Low viscosity Epoxy was Re: Subject: Re: Keel repair

Not not hijack this tread, I changed the subject. Since we seem to have epoxy 
experts here.

I am trying to take out some slight unevenness from the bottom of my bilge so 
that my keel bolt washers have an even contact.
 Can I use some low viscosity epoxy, just pour it into the bilge, probably dam 
of the area around the keel bolt with some tape, and let gravity do the 
leveling.
We are talking maybe 1/4 in thickness at the highest point.

I was originally thinking of using Marine-Tex but there are some areas which 
are a bit awkward to get to.


The issue is that At 200 lbs-ft the clamping force is about 12,000 lbs. So I 
need something that will not crumble under the pressure.

So the problem is to be low viscosity yet high compression strength.
Thank you
Ahmet
C 25
Boston, MA

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Re: Stus-List Low viscosity Epoxy was Re: Subject: Re: Keel repair

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

The best way to get a very level and flat surface is to use thin epoxy...
But then it may squish or flow out and allow for voids.  Besides that, you
MAY want to create a damn around the keel bolts.  I don't think crumbling
is going to be a problem.  The 12000 psi coming from the keel bolts is
"pounds per square inch" .  With a backer of stainless washer and G10
you're going to be spreading the load considerablythat is what the
backers are for.

As mentioned here before the west system epoxy compression stress is 11000
psi.  Pretty close to 12000 even before spreading the load.  Even if your
backers were only 2x2" you'd be down to 3000 psi on the epoxy.  I expect
that the G10 will be 3-4 inches wide and as long as possible (~10" or
more).  12000 divided by 40 square inches is only 300 psi.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
Not not hijack this tread, I changed the subject. Since we seem to have
epoxy experts here.

I am trying to take out some slight unevenness from the bottom of my bilge
so that my keel bolt washers have an even contact.
 Can I use some low viscosity epoxy, just pour it into the bilge, probably
dam of the area around the keel bolt with some tape, and let gravity do the
leveling.
We are talking maybe 1/4 in thickness at the highest point.

I was originally thinking of using Marine-Tex but there are some areas
which are a bit awkward to get to.


The issue is that At 200 lbs-ft the clamping force is about 12,000 lbs. So
I need something that will not crumble under the pressure.

So the problem is to be low viscosity yet high compression strength.
Thank you
Ahmet
C 25
Boston, MA


On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Dave Syer via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> In my case, was not suggesting it is superior, I just prefer to purchase
> the raw materials.   This way, I can use unfilled as a first coat, make a
> putty for the fill, and laminate at the end.   Same epoxy, sometimes even
> the same batch for multiple applications/jobs. YMMV.
> Dave
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 8:49 AM, David Knecht 
> wrote:
>
>> I really don’t understand why people think that epoxy resin thickened
>> with stuff to bring it to the consistency of putty is better to use than
>> epoxy putty designed for the purpose.  They are equally hard and equally
>> stiff.  Am I missing something?  Dave
>>
>> Aries
>> 1990 C 34+
>> New London, CT
>>
>>
>> On Nov 23, 2015, at 11:05 AM, Syerdave--- via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> For lead keel repair I think I'd just "clean" it very aggressively with
>> an angle grinder and a new, very coarse disk, then immediately paint it
>> with unfilled epoxy.  While that is curing to its "B" stage, mix up a very
>> stiff batch of epoxy filled with fumed silica and chopped glass.   Fill it
>> when the first coat is gelled/tacky.  if its a huge crater, i might take
>> two layers, (and a real good look for structural damage elsewhere) apply
>> the second while the first is at its B stage.  To finish that you could lay
>> light glass cloth or better, just peel-ply on top while still pliable/wet
>> and fair it pretty well with a plastic squeegee.
>> I've never seen the aft edge of a keel fail.  In the absence of an
>> issues, I'm not sure I'd worry about that.  My 33ii has a very thin
>> trailing edge, still intact after 30 years.
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
>> bottom of page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>>
>
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>
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>
>


-- 
---
Ahmet
*"S/V Waterdancer"* 1990 Irwin 43 CC
"Tabasco" 1973 C 25
Winthrop Yacht Club, Winthrop, MA / USA
---


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