Stus-List Re: Cored hulls feedback wanted

[Matt Wolford via CnC-List]

Shawn:

 

My 42 Custom is a “stick boat,” not a production boat, so 
results will vary.  In my case, I basically saved the boat from the landfill. I 
bought her without a hull survey because the seller’s rep (an Estate sale) is 
an old friend of mine, very knowledgeable about boats (he repairs them for a 
living), and knew this boat in particular.  He showed me an area where he made 
a hull repair, and advised that the rest of the boat was sound.  Based on his 
representation, I decided to proceed with the purchase.  I needed a hull survey 
to satisfy the insurance company, and the surveyor picked up a wet spot on the 
port side behind the keel.  The affected area was about 3’ x 3’ and accessible 
from the inside – no big deal.  I then asked my boat guru to have a look.  He 
metered the boat and called me to say we “needed to have lunch.”  He explained 
during lunch that the core below the waterline was wet from the keel to the 
rudder, and the repair (done correctly) would take time and be expensive.  
After fixing that problem (on the hard for a year), we then discovered that the 
core was also wet from the keel forward to the bow.  Another lost season.  
(Moisture detection up front was masked by a really thick layup of fiberglass 
that you might not see in a production boat.)  After fixing that problem, 
followed by about 12 coats of barrier coat, all was good for a few years.  Then 
I noticed some blistering amidships on both sides (the only places left).  
Water intrusion from the inside was impossible due to the barrier coat, and we 
concluded that decades of condensation under the water tanks likely caused the 
problem.  I addressed the port and starboard sides one year at a time to avoid 
disrupting the sailing season.  The port side repair required removing a water 
tank.  The starboard side repair required removing the second water tank and 
the fuel tank.  Everything is fixed, and the boat is probably stronger now than 
when it was built.  However, it took a lot of work, patience, money, and West 
System.

 

The moral of the story: don’t even think about buying a boat 
with a cored hull below the waterline unless you’re completely comfortable 
after hearing from a surveyor who really knows how to use a moisture meter.

 

Matt

 

From: Shawn Wright via CnC-List  
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2023 7:06 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Shawn Wright 
Subject: Stus-List Cored hulls feedback wanted

 

As we once again consider a boat with cored hull (LF43 or LF38), I am reminded 
of why we eventually chose our current 35 four years ago. I couldn't be sure of 
the hull integrity without an expensive survey, and at the low price range we 
could afford, avoiding a cored hull just removed this concern. 

 

But as I understand it, most C over 35' have been cored since the late 60s 
or early 70s depending on the model, so that includes a lot of boats, most of 
which are probably still sailing, albeit mainly coastal cruising or racing. Now 
as we consider the next boat for our long term offshore boat, things like 
potential hull damage from a reef or a collision in a remote part of the world 
are a concern. 

 

So I am interested in hearing about experiences with cored C, problem which 
have occurred under both normal use and as a result of damage from impact, and 
how effectively they could be repaired.

 

I guess an additional question is how C's balsa coring compares with modern 
day foam coring, either with or without vacuum bagging. I assume foam has some 
advantages in not absorbing water.

 

Thanks. 


--

Shawn Wright

shawngwri...@gmail.com  

S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35

https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Cored hulls feedback wanted

[Ted Drossos via CnC-List]

The newer C's such as the 99,110,115 & 121 use CoreCell foam rather than 
balsa core. Here is a good article explaining the pros and cons of different 
core types. The biggest advantage for CoreCell is that it doesn't absorb water.
  https://www.fram.nl/faq/how/SP_CoreCell_comp.pdf 
Ted DrossosC 110 Lady in RedLong Island, NY
  
        
  
  On 03/20/2023 7:06 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List  
wrote:   
   
   As we once again consider a boat with cored hull (LF43 or LF38), I am 
reminded of why we eventually chose our current 35 four years ago. I couldn't 
be sure of the hull integrity without an expensive survey, and at the low price 
range we could afford, avoiding a cored hull just removed this concern.   
   But as I understand it, most C over 35' have been cored since the late 
60s or early 70s depending on the model, so that includes a lot of boats, most 
of which are probably still sailing, albeit mainly coastal cruising or racing. 
Now as we consider the next boat for our long term offshore boat, things like 
potential hull damage from a reef or a collision in a remote part of the world 
are a concern.    
   So I am interested in hearing about experiences with cored C, problem 
which have occurred under both normal use and as a result of damage from 
impact, and how effectively they could be repaired.   
   I guess an additional question is how C's balsa coring compares with 
modern day foam coring, either with or without vacuum bagging. I assume foam 
has some advantages in not absorbing water.   
   Thanks.  
  --   Shawn Wright  


Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Cored hulls feedback wanted

[Doug via CnC-List]

My lf39 has been raced in the Pacific by a previous owner.  She is still very 
solid. I have sailed her from Washington to Zihuatanejo with no concerns, or 
problems. My only current concern is the steering cables in the conduits. Doug 
Mountjoy sv Rebecca Leah C & C Landfall 39Port Orchard Yacht Club 
 Original message From: Shawn Wright via CnC-List 
 Date: 3/20/23  18:45  (GMT-06:00) To: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
, Stus-List  Cc: Shawn Wright 
 Subject: Stus-List Re: Cored hulls feedback wanted Hi 
Chuck,Sorry, I should have clarified that I meant balsa cored hull only. I'm 
not concerned with decks, and am comfortable fixing small areas there. I don't 
believe many boats used balsa cored hulls other than C, and certainly not 
many meant for bluewater cruising, but I could be wrong. Having seen first hand 
how involved a cored hull repair can be (a Landfall 42, and it was above the 
waterline, caused by a rafted power boat and some big wake), it does concern 
me, but maybe I worry too much...--Shawn wrightshawngwri...@gmail.coms/V 
Callisto, 1974 C 35https://www.facebook.com/SVCallistoOn Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 
5:17 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER  wrote:

  
   
 
 
  
   Balsa Core:  I'm pretty sure balsa coring was used by almost every 
manufacturer from the 70's, 80's and 90's to save weight, add stiffness, and 
problems can be detected by a decent survey.  C used Balsa but so did 
Pearson, O'Day, Columbia, Ericson, Swan, Baltic, Beneteau, Jeanneau, Peterson, 
Morgan, Hunter, Catalina, Columbia, on and on.  If you held a piece of balsa 
cored deck and compared it's lightness and stiffness to a solid laminate, you'd 
understand why a cored hull is so amazing and highly desirable.  I'd say 90% of 
the boats in the average boatyard are balsa cored boats, sailboats and 
powerboats.
  
  
   
  
  
   I've done some balsa core replacement and can share photos, but the end 
result is faired and painted and the repairs are undetectable, so my boat now 
looks better than when I bought her twenty years ago.  Plus, all of my deck 
penetrations are now overdrilled, filled with thickened epoxy, and redrilled 
for the fasteners, so the balsa is sealed from moisture, which wasn't done when 
my boat was built.  If a deck fastener leaks over time, the water will pass the 
balsa core and drip into the boat, alerting the owner to rebed the fitting.
  
  
   
  
  
   Many balsa cored boats are sailing offshore and around the world.  
  
  
   
  
  
   
  
  
   
  
  
   Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R, Annapolis
   
  
  
   
  
  
 
  
  
   
  
  
       
   
  
  
   
On 03/20/2023 7:06 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List  
wrote:
   
   

   
   

   
   
As we once again consider a boat with cored hull (LF43 or LF38), I am 
reminded of why we eventually chose our current 35 four years ago. I couldn't 
be sure of the hull integrity without an expensive survey, and at the low price 
range we could afford, avoiding a cored hull just removed this concern. 

 


 But as I understand it, most C over 35' have been cored since the late 
60s or early 70s depending on the model, so that includes a lot of boats, most 
of which are probably still sailing, albeit mainly coastal cruising or racing. 
Now as we consider the next boat for our long term offshore boat, things like 
potential hull damage from a reef or a collision in a remote part of the world 
are a concern. 


 


 So I am interested in hearing about experiences with cored C, problem 
which have occurred under both normal use and as a result of damage from 
impact, and how effectively they could be repaired.


 


 I guess an additional question is how C's balsa coring compares with 
modern day foam coring, either with or without vacuum bagging. I assume foam 
has some advantages in not absorbing water.


 


 Thanks. 
 
 
  
   

 
  --
 
 
  Shawn Wright
 
 
  shawngwri...@gmail.com
  
 
 
  S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35
 
 
  https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto
  
 

   
  
 

   Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and 
help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
   Thanks for your help.
   Stu
  
 

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Cored hulls feedback wanted

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

Hi Chuck,

Sorry, I should have clarified that I meant balsa cored hull only. I'm not
concerned with decks, and am comfortable fixing small areas there. I don't
believe many boats used balsa cored hulls other than C, and certainly not
many meant for bluewater cruising, but I could be wrong. Having seen first
hand how involved a cored hull repair can be (a Landfall 42, and it was
above the waterline, caused by a rafted power boat and some big wake), it
does concern me, but maybe I worry too much...

--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 5:17 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
wrote:

> Balsa Core:  I'm pretty sure balsa coring was used by almost every
> manufacturer from the 70's, 80's and 90's to save weight, add stiffness,
> and problems can be detected by a decent survey.  C used Balsa but so did
> Pearson, O'Day, Columbia, Ericson, Swan, Baltic, Beneteau, Jeanneau,
> Peterson, Morgan, Hunter, Catalina, Columbia, on and on.  If you held a
> piece of balsa cored deck and compared it's lightness and stiffness to a
> solid laminate, you'd understand why a cored hull is so amazing and highly
> desirable.  I'd say 90% of the boats in the average boatyard are balsa
> cored boats, sailboats and powerboats.
>
> I've done some balsa core replacement and can share photos, but the end
> result is faired and painted and the repairs are undetectable, so my boat
> now looks better than when I bought her twenty years ago.  Plus, all of my
> deck penetrations are now overdrilled, filled with thickened epoxy, and
> redrilled for the fasteners, so the balsa is sealed from moisture, which
> wasn't done when my boat was built.  If a deck fastener leaks over time,
> the water will pass the balsa core and drip into the boat, alerting the
> owner to rebed the fitting.
>
> Many balsa cored boats are sailing offshore and around the world.
>
>
>
> Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R, Annapolis
>
>
>
>
>
> On 03/20/2023 7:06 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
>
> As we once again consider a boat with cored hull (LF43 or LF38), I am
> reminded of why we eventually chose our current 35 four years ago. I
> couldn't be sure of the hull integrity without an expensive survey, and at
> the low price range we could afford, avoiding a cored hull just removed
> this concern.
>
> But as I understand it, most C over 35' have been cored since the late
> 60s or early 70s depending on the model, so that includes a lot of boats,
> most of which are probably still sailing, albeit mainly coastal cruising or
> racing. Now as we consider the next boat for our long term offshore boat,
> things like potential hull damage from a reef or a collision in a remote
> part of the world are a concern.
>
> So I am interested in hearing about experiences with cored C, problem
> which have occurred under both normal use and as a result of damage from
> impact, and how effectively they could be repaired.
>
> I guess an additional question is how C's balsa coring compares with
> modern day foam coring, either with or without vacuum bagging. I assume
> foam has some advantages in not absorbing water.
>
> Thanks.
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com
> S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35
> https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and
> help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
>
>
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Cored hulls feedback wanted

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

Balsa Core:  I'm pretty sure balsa coring was used by almost every manufacturer 
from the 70's, 80's and 90's to save weight, add stiffness, and problems can be 
detected by a decent survey.  C used Balsa but so did Pearson, O'Day, 
Columbia, Ericson, Swan, Baltic, Beneteau, Jeanneau, Peterson, Morgan, Hunter, 
Catalina, Columbia, on and on.  If you held a piece of balsa cored deck and 
compared it's lightness and stiffness to a solid laminate, you'd understand why 
a cored hull is so amazing and highly desirable.  I'd say 90% of the boats in 
the average boatyard are balsa cored boats, sailboats and powerboats.

I've done some balsa core replacement and can share photos, but the end result 
is faired and painted and the repairs are undetectable, so my boat now looks 
better than when I bought her twenty years ago.  Plus, all of my deck 
penetrations are now overdrilled, filled with thickened epoxy, and redrilled 
for the fasteners, so the balsa is sealed from moisture, which wasn't done when 
my boat was built.  If a deck fastener leaks over time, the water will pass the 
balsa core and drip into the boat, alerting the owner to rebed the fitting.

Many balsa cored boats are sailing offshore and around the world. 



Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R, Annapolis





> On 03/20/2023 7:06 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> As we once again consider a boat with cored hull (LF43 or LF38), I am 
> reminded of why we eventually chose our current 35 four years ago. I couldn't 
> be sure of the hull integrity without an expensive survey, and at the low 
> price range we could afford, avoiding a cored hull just removed this concern. 
> 
> But as I understand it, most C over 35' have been cored since the late 
> 60s or early 70s depending on the model, so that includes a lot of boats, 
> most of which are probably still sailing, albeit mainly coastal cruising or 
> racing. Now as we consider the next boat for our long term offshore boat, 
> things like potential hull damage from a reef or a collision in a remote part 
> of the world are a concern. 
> 
> So I am interested in hearing about experiences with cored C, problem 
> which have occurred under both normal use and as a result of damage from 
> impact, and how effectively they could be repaired.
> 
> I guess an additional question is how C's balsa coring compares with 
> modern day foam coring, either with or without vacuum bagging. I assume foam 
> has some advantages in not absorbing water.
> 
> Thanks. 
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com mailto:shawngwri...@gmail.com
> S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35
> https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and 
> help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
> 
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu