Re: Stus-List Roller-furled jib sheets and symmetrical spinnaker - now spinnaker and 35-III
Sorry for the late reply - yes, there are some differences with the symmetrical spinnaker, but the same principles. First step is to get rid of the pole. As you're coming in on starboard, trip the pole and fly the chute without it. Mast position keeping a hand on the guy will help stabilize, but it's possible without unless you're coming in really hot. Drop the pole and clear the foreguy back so that you can gybe. If there's time, drop the mast end of the pole too, but the genoa should be able to go over it in the gybe (make sure the fore hatch is open before the pole goes all the way down). Unfurl the genoa (to port) - you can leave this fairly late, to just before the gybe if you're confident it will come out and be trimmed quickly. I don't think you can do it to starboard like you can with the small 109 jibs, but that might be worth a try. 3. Trim the spinnaker sheet tight and gybe the main and genoa - starting fairly wide of the mark so that you can turn in tight. 4. Drop the spinnaker, with foredeck hauling it round the forestay so it falls onto the trimmed genoa and down the hatch. I hope this helps... Tim On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Indigo ind...@thethomsons.us wrote: Tim Thanks for this advice. I think mine is a standard rug like yours I have sheaves for two spin halyards but only have one halyard. Perhaps I should re purpose one of the jib halyards which never gets used! I am reasonably familiar with the Mexican on a j109 (asym and sprit of course) but not sure I can envision it with a pole and symetrical With the j109 we unfurl the jib as we approach the mark and sheet it in tight on the starboard side (still approaching on a starboard tack (spin on the port side) As we gybe we harden up on the spin sheet and as we pass stern through the wind the main gybes and the spinnaker collapses into the tight ( port side ) of the job. Release the halyard, tack and sheet to douse spinnaker straight down hatch So my confusion is. with the sym spinnaker how to unfurl the jib on the starboard side with the pole in the way? Apologies to all for my ignorance! -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Roller-furled jib sheets and symmetrical spinnaker - now spinnaker and 35-III
Tim Thanks for this advice. I think mine is a standard rug like yours I have sheaves for two spin halyards but only have one halyard. Perhaps I should re purpose one of the jib halyards which never gets used! I am reasonably familiar with the Mexican on a j109 (asym and sprit of course) but not sure I can envision it with a pole and symetrical With the j109 we unfurl the jib as we approach the mark and sheet it in tight on the starboard side (still approaching on a starboard tack (spin on the port side) As we gybe we harden up on the spin sheet and as we pass stern through the wind the main gybes and the spinnaker collapses into the tight ( port side ) of the job. Release the halyard, tack and sheet to douse spinnaker straight down hatch So my confusion is. with the sym spinnaker how to unfurl the jib on the starboard side with the pole in the way? Apologies to all for my ignorance! -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT On Aug 3, 2014, at 16:10, Tim Goodyear timg...@gmail.com wrote: Jonathan, it sounds like you have a different setup to mine. Mine looks exactly like the shop drawings, so is original (maybe an option?). We have two spin halyards that exit slightly above the forestay with stainless 'pipes' each side. That makes it easy to douse either side as long as foredeck remembers which way round to untwist them. We had one race where we seemed to get something hung up on the douse. So now we tend to release about 6 of halyard while the spin is full, which should help you clear the forestay / swivel, but I think the best advice would be to go for the 'Mexican' that others have described. It can get you a later drop and means the sheets / guys can remain hooked up if you're OK with hatch hoists. Tim Mojito CC 35-III Branford, CT On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:23 PM, Indigo via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Thanks for all the help on this. I have another question - specifically for 35-III owners who fly a symmetrical spinnaker I usually do my first set with the pole to starboard and the chute going up using my only spin halyard which is on the port side - and the chute going up under the jib (starboard tack for a port rounding). After an odd number of gybes, I am dousing on the chute on the starboard side- with the halyard now over the top of the forestay ( on the 35-III the standard halyard sheaves are in line and not above the forestay tang). On more than one occasion, we have had great difficulty dousing the chute because of the way the halyard is being led over the forestay - potentially very dangerous. I am typically leaving the douse until I am almost at the leeward mark and have therefor started rounding up by the time we start bringing the kite down. I have to be doing something wrong! Jonathan -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT On Aug 1, 2014, at 9:54, Joel Aronson via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have a furler and dip-pole. We use a piece of velcro to hold the sheets to the headstay below the drum. i'm not on the bow, but some very experienced bowmen tell me its best on my boat. Joel 35/3 The Office Annapolis On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I don’t think of it either. Of course that is because I am old and way too heavy to be allowed on the bow Mike Persistence Halifax (yet another “not a cc” boat – however I do race regularly on a 115 so I guess that counts – and a 99 as well) From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Tim Goodyear via CnC-List Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 8:57 AM To: Indigo; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Roller-furled jib sheets and symmetrical spinnaker It really is up to the bow person to keep the jib sheets forward / above the pole / topping lift. It is not hard if the sheets are slack (no reason to keep them taught) and it's way, way easier with a furler than if you had dropped the jib. Just one other thing for bow to remember in the gybe. We don't even think of it these days. I'm assuming you're doing dip pole, not what Josh was describing? Tim Mojito CC 35-3 Branford, CT On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 10:51 PM, Indigo via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Still trying to get the hang of racing with a symmetrical spinnaker - and sorely in need of advice! I am setting up the pole with the lazy jib sheet over the pole and forward of the pole topping lift (taped back at the mast end of the pole) Set goes fine, then furl the jib. However after a couple of gybes, I find the jib sheets always need re-running before being able to unfurl the jib before douse. What am I doing wrong? -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email
Re: Stus-List Roller-furled jib sheets and symmetrical spinnaker - now spinnaker and 35-III
Thanks for all the help on this. I have another question - specifically for 35-III owners who fly a symmetrical spinnaker I usually do my first set with the pole to starboard and the chute going up using my only spin halyard which is on the port side - and the chute going up under the jib (starboard tack for a port rounding). After an odd number of gybes, I am dousing on the chute on the starboard side- with the halyard now over the top of the forestay ( on the 35-III the standard halyard sheaves are in line and not above the forestay tang). On more than one occasion, we have had great difficulty dousing the chute because of the way the halyard is being led over the forestay - potentially very dangerous. I am typically leaving the douse until I am almost at the leeward mark and have therefor started rounding up by the time we start bringing the kite down. I have to be doing something wrong! Jonathan -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT On Aug 1, 2014, at 9:54, Joel Aronson via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have a furler and dip-pole. We use a piece of velcro to hold the sheets to the headstay below the drum. i'm not on the bow, but some very experienced bowmen tell me its best on my boat. Joel 35/3 The Office Annapolis On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I don’t think of it either. Of course that is because I am old and way too heavy to be allowed on the bow Mike Persistence Halifax (yet another “not a cc” boat – however I do race regularly on a 115 so I guess that counts – and a 99 as well) From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Tim Goodyear via CnC-List Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 8:57 AM To: Indigo; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Roller-furled jib sheets and symmetrical spinnaker It really is up to the bow person to keep the jib sheets forward / above the pole / topping lift. It is not hard if the sheets are slack (no reason to keep them taught) and it's way, way easier with a furler than if you had dropped the jib. Just one other thing for bow to remember in the gybe. We don't even think of it these days. I'm assuming you're doing dip pole, not what Josh was describing? Tim Mojito CC 35-3 Branford, CT On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 10:51 PM, Indigo via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Still trying to get the hang of racing with a symmetrical spinnaker - and sorely in need of advice! I am setting up the pole with the lazy jib sheet over the pole and forward of the pole topping lift (taped back at the mast end of the pole) Set goes fine, then furl the jib. However after a couple of gybes, I find the jib sheets always need re-running before being able to unfurl the jib before douse. What am I doing wrong? -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Roller-furled jib sheets and symmetrical spinnaker - now spinnaker and 35-III
The rule on Touche' is always drop on the same side as the hoist, period! It's not hard even if you're on the opposite gybe than the hoist. Pop the jaw, lower the pole end, and haul the guy as you ease the sheet and halyard. The chute should slide around the forestay and across the foredeck. Practice it a few times, you'll get it. An added bonus is the crew will still be on the high side of the boat. The other choice it to try to set up for a starboard gybe approach to the mark, then you'll be set for a port douse. You also have rights. Having rights during a chute douse is a good thing. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Indigo via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Thanks for all the help on this. I have another question - specifically for 35-III owners who fly a symmetrical spinnaker I usually do my first set with the pole to starboard and the chute going up using my only spin halyard which is on the port side - and the chute going up under the jib (starboard tack for a port rounding). After an odd number of gybes, I am dousing on the chute on the starboard side- with the halyard now over the top of the forestay ( on the 35-III the standard halyard sheaves are in line and not above the forestay tang). On more than one occasion, we have had great difficulty dousing the chute because of the way the halyard is being led over the forestay - potentially very dangerous. I am typically leaving the douse until I am almost at the leeward mark and have therefor started rounding up by the time we start bringing the kite down. I have to be doing something wrong! Jonathan -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Roller-furled jib sheets and symmetrical spinnaker - now spinnaker and 35-III
When you douse the spinnaker, do you let the pole forward to the headstay and then let the guy completely off? This should relieve all the pressure and now you can pull on the sheet to gather the foot and work with the bowman to relieve the halyard insync so as not to dump the sail in the water. Maybe some of your spin-halyard hardware is getting hung up on the furler swivel? Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Aug 3, 2014 12:23 PM, Indigo via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Thanks for all the help on this. I have another question - specifically for 35-III owners who fly a symmetrical spinnaker I usually do my first set with the pole to starboard and the chute going up using my only spin halyard which is on the port side - and the chute going up under the jib (starboard tack for a port rounding). After an odd number of gybes, I am dousing on the chute on the starboard side- with the halyard now over the top of the forestay ( on the 35-III the standard halyard sheaves are in line and not above the forestay tang). On more than one occasion, we have had great difficulty dousing the chute because of the way the halyard is being led over the forestay - potentially very dangerous. I am typically leaving the douse until I am almost at the leeward mark and have therefor started rounding up by the time we start bringing the kite down. I have to be doing something wrong! Jonathan -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT On Aug 1, 2014, at 9:54, Joel Aronson via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have a furler and dip-pole. We use a piece of velcro to hold the sheets to the headstay below the drum. i'm not on the bow, but some very experienced bowmen tell me its best on my boat. Joel 35/3 The Office Annapolis On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I don't think of it either. Of course that is because I am old and way too heavy to be allowed on the bow Mike Persistence Halifax (yet another not a cc boat - however I do race regularly on a 115 so I guess that counts - and a 99 as well) *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Tim Goodyear via CnC-List *Sent:* Friday, August 01, 2014 8:57 AM *To:* Indigo; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Roller-furled jib sheets and symmetrical spinnaker It really is up to the bow person to keep the jib sheets forward / above the pole / topping lift. It is not hard if the sheets are slack (no reason to keep them taught) and it's way, way easier with a furler than if you had dropped the jib. Just one other thing for bow to remember in the gybe. We don't even think of it these days. I'm assuming you're doing dip pole, not what Josh was describing? Tim Mojito CC 35-3 Branford, CT On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 10:51 PM, Indigo via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Still trying to get the hang of racing with a symmetrical spinnaker - and sorely in need of advice! I am setting up the pole with the lazy jib sheet over the pole and forward of the pole topping lift (taped back at the mast end of the pole) Set goes fine, then furl the jib. However after a couple of gybes, I find the jib sheets always need re-running before being able to unfurl the jib before douse. What am I doing wrong? -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Roller-furled jib sheets and symmetrical spinnaker - now spinnaker and 35-III
Every boat is a little different but the Person 32 I race on has 3 masthead sheaves. We regularly lower on the opposite side of that which we raised. If you absolutely need to take down on the same side, you could try a maneuver called a mexican. This is a takedown on the windward side. IIRC you need to be a bit more downwind. It can suck though cause there is still wind present in the sail, it is just pressed up against the main and usually slides down the inside. Josh On Aug 3, 2014 12:23 PM, Indigo via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Thanks for all the help on this. I have another question - specifically for 35-III owners who fly a symmetrical spinnaker I usually do my first set with the pole to starboard and the chute going up using my only spin halyard which is on the port side - and the chute going up under the jib (starboard tack for a port rounding). After an odd number of gybes, I am dousing on the chute on the starboard side- with the halyard now over the top of the forestay ( on the 35-III the standard halyard sheaves are in line and not above the forestay tang). On more than one occasion, we have had great difficulty dousing the chute because of the way the halyard is being led over the forestay - potentially very dangerous. I am typically leaving the douse until I am almost at the leeward mark and have therefor started rounding up by the time we start bringing the kite down. I have to be doing something wrong! Jonathan -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT On Aug 1, 2014, at 9:54, Joel Aronson via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have a furler and dip-pole. We use a piece of velcro to hold the sheets to the headstay below the drum. i'm not on the bow, but some very experienced bowmen tell me its best on my boat. Joel 35/3 The Office Annapolis On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I don't think of it either. Of course that is because I am old and way too heavy to be allowed on the bow Mike Persistence Halifax (yet another not a cc boat - however I do race regularly on a 115 so I guess that counts - and a 99 as well) *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Tim Goodyear via CnC-List *Sent:* Friday, August 01, 2014 8:57 AM *To:* Indigo; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Roller-furled jib sheets and symmetrical spinnaker It really is up to the bow person to keep the jib sheets forward / above the pole / topping lift. It is not hard if the sheets are slack (no reason to keep them taught) and it's way, way easier with a furler than if you had dropped the jib. Just one other thing for bow to remember in the gybe. We don't even think of it these days. I'm assuming you're doing dip pole, not what Josh was describing? Tim Mojito CC 35-3 Branford, CT On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 10:51 PM, Indigo via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Still trying to get the hang of racing with a symmetrical spinnaker - and sorely in need of advice! I am setting up the pole with the lazy jib sheet over the pole and forward of the pole topping lift (taped back at the mast end of the pole) Set goes fine, then furl the jib. However after a couple of gybes, I find the jib sheets always need re-running before being able to unfurl the jib before douse. What am I doing wrong? -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Roller-furled jib sheets and symmetrical spinnaker - now spinnaker and 35-III
Jonathan, it sounds like you have a different setup to mine. Mine looks exactly like the shop drawings, so is original (maybe an option?). We have two spin halyards that exit slightly above the forestay with stainless 'pipes' each side. That makes it easy to douse either side as long as foredeck remembers which way round to untwist them. We had one race where we seemed to get something hung up on the douse. So now we tend to release about 6 of halyard while the spin is full, which should help you clear the forestay / swivel, but I think the best advice would be to go for the 'Mexican' that others have described. It can get you a later drop and means the sheets / guys can remain hooked up if you're OK with hatch hoists. Tim Mojito CC 35-III Branford, CT On Aug 3, 2014, at 12:23 PM, Indigo via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Thanks for all the help on this. I have another question - specifically for 35-III owners who fly a symmetrical spinnaker I usually do my first set with the pole to starboard and the chute going up using my only spin halyard which is on the port side - and the chute going up under the jib (starboard tack for a port rounding). After an odd number of gybes, I am dousing on the chute on the starboard side- with the halyard now over the top of the forestay ( on the 35-III the standard halyard sheaves are in line and not above the forestay tang). On more than one occasion, we have had great difficulty dousing the chute because of the way the halyard is being led over the forestay - potentially very dangerous. I am typically leaving the douse until I am almost at the leeward mark and have therefor started rounding up by the time we start bringing the kite down. I have to be doing something wrong! Jonathan -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT On Aug 1, 2014, at 9:54, Joel Aronson via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have a furler and dip-pole. We use a piece of velcro to hold the sheets to the headstay below the drum. i'm not on the bow, but some very experienced bowmen tell me its best on my boat. Joel 35/3 The Office Annapolis On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I don’t think of it either. Of course that is because I am old and way too heavy to be allowed on the bow Mike Persistence Halifax (yet another “not a cc” boat – however I do race regularly on a 115 so I guess that counts – and a 99 as well) From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Tim Goodyear via CnC-List Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 8:57 AM To: Indigo; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Roller-furled jib sheets and symmetrical spinnaker It really is up to the bow person to keep the jib sheets forward / above the pole / topping lift. It is not hard if the sheets are slack (no reason to keep them taught) and it's way, way easier with a furler than if you had dropped the jib. Just one other thing for bow to remember in the gybe. We don't even think of it these days. I'm assuming you're doing dip pole, not what Josh was describing? Tim Mojito CC 35-3 Branford, CT On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 10:51 PM, Indigo via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Still trying to get the hang of racing with a symmetrical spinnaker - and sorely in need of advice! I am setting up the pole with the lazy jib sheet over the pole and forward of the pole topping lift (taped back at the mast end of the pole) Set goes fine, then furl the jib. However after a couple of gybes, I find the jib sheets always need re-running before being able to unfurl the jib before douse. What am I doing wrong? -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at:
