Re: Stus-List V Berth Holding Tank
blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px
#715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:white
!important; } Randy, thanks so much for all the info, it's really helpful.
Everyone else that replied thanks as well.
I'm going to start doing some measuring and try to make a decision on where to
put it.
CollinS/V Libra1974 C 30 MK1Baltimore, MD
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
On Wednesday, October 12, 2016, 5:19 PM, RANDY <randy.staff...@comcast.net>
wrote:
OK Collin I put a few pictures of my holding tank and the invoice for it at
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-NqAxQ6JxFTZ3E3VHc1LURQZEE?usp=sharing.
Let me know if that URL doesn't work for you.
Looks like the PO spent ~$200 on it from http://www.trioniccorp.com. They no
longer list the exact model he ordered but I bet the 2015 would work, and you
might need the custom fitting kit.
Obviously the PO must have had to take apart all that cabinetry to install the
tank, and put it back together afterwards. I'm sure he fabricated that shelf
around the tank. I haven't gotten in there to see how he mounted / supported
the tank on the hull. In the pictures of the tank, the silver hose at left is
the vent, and there is a vent fitting just below the rub rail on the outside of
the hull (see also
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTY0VBM2hlT0hveDQ). The center
white hose goes to a waste pump-out fitting on the deck. I'm guessing both
those fittings were already there when the PO installed the new tank. The
white hose at right is black water in from the toilet, which loops over from
far right (i.e. forward most).
I also threw in a couple shots of the toilet pump and under-sink plumbing for
completeness. In the picture of the toilet pump, the silver hose is flush
water in to the pump; the white hose on top is flush water out from the pump.
The white hose on the bottom is black water out from the toilet. In the
under-sink shot you can see those same flush water to pump, and black water
from toilet hoses. Plus the fresh-water lines and pump to the sink, and the
drain and through-hull.
The way my washroom is plumbed, I don't have overboard discharge or Y valve or
above-waterline loop etc. And I can flush the head with raw lake water, but I
don't. I always flush it with fresh water from the forward tank. My first
reason for doing that was to keep lake water bacteria and organic matter etc.
out of the system, to reduce odor. But maybe a second advantage is that it
will help the system last longer to use cleaner water. I can also drain the
sink into the lake, but I don't - I generally pump the sink drain water through
the toilet into the holding tank. So I generally keep that through-hull
seacock closed all the time. There was an earlier thread on head plumbing back
in April, if you're interested:
http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/2016-April/084241.html
For where I sail (a lake in Colorado with a pump-out station at the marina),
this arrangement works fine. If I was doing extended cruises offshore I'd
probably want overboard discharge and raw-water flush. But for now I don't
need huge holding tank capacity, and I don't like the idea of smelly sloshy
holding tanks right under the pillows in the V berth :)
Cheers,Randy
From: "Collin Ferguson" <cferg...@yahoo.com>
To: "RANDY" <randy.staff...@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 6:11:10 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List V Berth Holding Tank
Hey Randy,
Yea it would be helpful if you knew where he ordered the tank from, if I could
find one that fit well for a good price that would help out a lot.
On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 8:52 PM, RANDY <randy.staff...@comcast.net>
wrote:
Hi Collin,
Welcome. If you look at the various 30-1 brochures
(http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/brochures/brochuresndx.htm), it seems C may not
have installed a holding tank originally, but began doing it somewhere in the
production run. For example
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/brochures/30foot/30b2pg02.htm says "Washroom Port
side ... large locker outboard with double sliding doors for toilet articles.
Stowage under". And http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/brochures/30foot/30b3pg04.htm
says "WASHROOM Port side - ... large storage locker with sliding doors" and
"Interior Equipment and Fittings: Marine toilet with retention device for those
areas requiring it". But
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/brochures/30foot/30b1pg02.htm says "TANKAGE:
Holding: 13 U.S. gallon tank".
I have hull #7, built September 1972. I just bought it in January. My boat
has a holding tank in the washroom on the port side outboard, behind those
sliding doors. The PO advertised "complete new holding tank" as part of work
he did in 2012. I don't know if he installed one in the same place as an old
one, or what. I
Re: Stus-List V Berth Holding Tank
OK Collin I put a few pictures of my holding tank and the invoice for it at https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-NqAxQ6JxFTZ3E3VHc1LURQZEE?usp=sharing . Let me know if that URL doesn't work for you. Looks like the PO spent ~$200 on it from http://www.trioniccorp.com . They no longer list the exact model he ordered but I bet the 2015 would work, and you might need the custom fitting kit. Obviously the PO must have had to take apart all that cabinetry to install the tank, and put it back together afterwards. I'm sure he fabricated that shelf around the tank. I haven't gotten in there to see how he mounted / supported the tank on the hull. In the pictures of the tank, the silver hose at left is the vent, and there is a vent fitting just below the rub rail on the outside of the hull (see also https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTY0VBM2hlT0hveDQ ). The center white hose goes to a waste pump-out fitting on the deck. I'm guessing both those fittings were already there when the PO installed the new tank. The white hose at right is black water in from the toilet, which loops over from far right (i.e. forward most). I also threw in a couple shots of the toilet pump and under-sink plumbing for completeness. In the picture of the toilet pump, the silver hose is flush water in to the pump; the white hose on top is flush water out from the pump. The white hose on the bottom is black water out from the toilet. In the under-sink shot you can see those same flush water to pump, and black water from toilet hoses. Plus the fresh-water lines and pump to the sink, and the drain and through-hull. The way my washroom is plumbed, I don't have overboard discharge or Y valve or above-waterline loop etc. And I can flush the head with raw lake water, but I don't. I always flush it with fresh water from the forward tank. My first reason for doing that was to keep lake water bacteria and organic matter etc. out of the system, to reduce odor. But maybe a second advantage is that it will help the system last longer to use cleaner water. I can also drain the sink into the lake, but I don't - I generally pump the sink drain water through the toilet into the holding tank. So I generally keep that through-hull seacock closed all the time. There was an earlier thread on head plumbing back in April, if you're interested: http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/2016-April/084241.html For where I sail (a lake in Colorado with a pump-out station at the marina), this arrangement works fine. If I was doing extended cruises offshore I'd probably want overboard discharge and raw-water flush. But for now I don't need huge holding tank capacity, and I don't like the idea of smelly sloshy holding tanks right under the pillows in the V berth :) Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Collin Ferguson" <cferg...@yahoo.com> To: "RANDY" <randy.staff...@comcast.net> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 6:11:10 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List V Berth Holding Tank Hey Randy, Yea it would be helpful if you knew where he ordered the tank from, if I could find one that fit well for a good price that would help out a lot. On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 8:52 PM, RANDY <randy.staff...@comcast.net> wrote: Hi Collin, Welcome. If you look at the various 30-1 brochures ( http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/brochures/brochuresndx.htm ), it seems C may not have installed a holding tank originally, but began doing it somewhere in the production run. For example http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/brochures/30foot/30b2pg02.htm says "Washroom Port side ... large locker outboard with double sliding doors for toilet articles. Stowage under". And http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/brochures/30foot/30b3pg04.htm says "WASHROOM Port side - ... large storage locker with sliding doors" and "Interior Equipment and Fittings: Marine toilet with retention device for those areas requiring it". But http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/brochures/30foot/30b1pg02.htm says "TANKAGE: Holding: 13 U.S. gallon tank". I have hull #7, built September 1972. I just bought it in January. My boat has a holding tank in the washroom on the port side outboard, behind those sliding doors. The PO advertised "complete new holding tank" as part of work he did in 2012. I don't know if he installed one in the same place as an old one, or what. I believe I have the invoice on the boat, showing what he ordered and where he ordered it from. If you're interested in that, I could get it next time I'm at the boat and send you a scan of it. But I would imagine you could install a holding tank in that location, and only have to deal with removing and replacing (and custom fitting) wood paneling and trim etc, instead of installing one in the stowage compartment under the port side of the V berth and having to enlarge the fiberglass opening there
Re: Stus-List V Berth Holding Tank
Welcome. Your 5 gallon can reminds me how handy it was at times to have a portapotti that could be easily emptied in a shore-toilet. Not sure where you are located but there is a shop in Whitby ON - a division of MAS plastics - that makes custom poly holding tanks. In any case I would make a cardboard mock up before ordering anything. Ordering and shipping something that bulky across the border would be killer, twice would be worse. If you can, have the pump out hose exit from the top, with a length of pipe reaching to the bottom. This prevents black water from collecting in the hose, and moves the fitting/hole to above the (black) waterline. Not familiar with your boat , but it seems strange you have no deck plate. IF you are going to cut open any bulkhead, remember to cut the corners with a large radius to avoid stress concentrations. Dave . On 10/11/2016 7:49 PM, Collin Ferguson via CnC-List wrote: > Hello, This is my first posting to this list. I'm used to forums like > on the Moyer site, so hopefully I'm doing this right. > > I have a 1974 C 30 MK1. To my knowledge, it was built without a > blackwater holding tank for the Head. At some point over the last 40 > years a P.O. put a 5 gallon Jerry can in a storage compartment in the > V Berth and installed a Y valve after the macerator. One side of the > Y valve goes overboard the other goes to the Jerry can. > > I'd like to install a legitimate holding tank and I think the storage > compartment on the Port side of the V berth is a good spot. > > Here's my question... > > The current opening to that storage compartment is very small, just > barely fits the square 5 gallon jerry can. Can I make that opening > bigger without affecting the structural integrity of the boat? I > understand that I'll have to make the hatch sturdy so it won't fall > through when you sleep in the v berth. There is a lot more to do, > like install and plumb a pump out deck plate. But the placement of > the holding tank, and finding one seems to be the hardest part. > > Thanks for your help, > > Collin ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List V Berth Holding Tank
Collin, Anchovy had a 2 gallon gas can for a holding tank when I got her. I converted the forward potable water tank into a holding tank and installed 13 gallon bladders in the spaces you describe under the port and starboard v-berth. I cut out rather large openings on the two sides to facilitate installing the bladders and converting the tank. Then I cut "Flanges" out of plywood that are epoxied and screwed in place under the v-berth platform. These flanges are very strong and allowed me to reinstall the cutouts after the mods were done. The cutouts are screwed back in place but not epoxied so that I can pull them again if needed. I also removed the overboard through-hull and glassed it in. I really like having a 30-35 gallon holding tank. Rick Bushie Anchovy, '71 30-1 Tolchester, MD ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List V Berth Holding Tank
HI Collin! welcome! I would contact Holland marine. This guy is a C specialist. http://www.hollandmarine.com/ He carries a holding tank that he claims; "These tanks were used on many Canadian built boats, such as Most C Yachts, Northerns, Viking 33, and many other boats" It ain't cheap but if it works...! Another option is to get a hold of the catalog from the http://www.ronco-plastics.com/ site and try and pick out one that will work best for your space. Most boat tanks are odd shapes to fit better against the hull and give you as much holding volume as possible. As you study the catalog you'll start to get an idea of a good shape for your anticipated space. You could actually bring the catalog to the boat, while looking in the space you have and measuring. Get as close as you can with maybe a few options and then, perhaps, build cardboard mock ups ans see which ones fit best... Its a lot of up front work and research but, it'll get you the right tank. This is not a short term project. these tanks last for many years, MANY years. You can also have them place the inlets, outlets and ports to your specified locations. Hope this helps some. Danny On 10/11/2016 7:49 PM, Collin Ferguson via CnC-List wrote: Hello, This is my first posting to this list. I'm used to forums like on the Moyer site, so hopefully I'm doing this right. I have a 1974 C 30 MK1. To my knowledge, it was built without a blackwater holding tank for the Head. At some point over the last 40 years a P.O. put a 5 gallon Jerry can in a storage compartment in the V Berth and installed a Y valve after the macerator. One side of the Y valve goes overboard the other goes to the Jerry can. I'd like to install a legitimate holding tank and I think the storage compartment on the Port side of the V berth is a good spot. Here's my question... The current opening to that storage compartment is very small, just barely fits the square 5 gallon jerry can. Can I make that opening bigger without affecting the structural integrity of the boat? I understand that I'll have to make the hatch sturdy so it won't fall through when you sleep in the v berth. There is a lot more to do, like install and plumb a pump out deck plate. But the placement of the holding tank, and finding one seems to be the hardest part. Thanks for your help, Collin ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List V Berth Holding Tank
The later30-1’s have a holding tank directly behind the toilet, in the compartment under the sliding plastic doors. Factory item, looks like it was built in, with a Y valve under the sink going to a thru hull, also under the sink, and diverting to the holding tank. Pump out fitting is on the deck by the port. There is an access port to the tank on the ‘floor’ of the cabinet behind the doors. It may be easier to put a pre-fab tank or a flex tank like Jake says in the area you are thinking about by inserting it through the large center opening in the vee berth and run the plumbing up forward on the port side. To do a tank where mine is would require some creative cabinetry and a custom built tank (it tapers to match the side of the boat). Gary #593 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jake Brodersen via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 9:26 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Jake Brodersen <captain_j...@cox.net> Subject: Re: Stus-List V Berth Holding Tank Colin, Nauta makes some good flexible tanks. I’ve had one in my 35-3 for over 15 years and no problems or smells. Jake Jake Brodersen C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress” Hampton VA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Collin Ferguson via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 19:49 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: Collin Ferguson <cferg...@yahoo.com <mailto:cferg...@yahoo.com> > Subject: Stus-List V Berth Holding Tank Hello, This is my first posting to this list. I'm used to forums like on the Moyer site, so hopefully I'm doing this right. I have a 1974 C 30 MK1. To my knowledge, it was built without a blackwater holding tank for the Head. At some point over the last 40 years a P.O. put a 5 gallon Jerry can in a storage compartment in the V Berth and installed a Y valve after the macerator. One side of the Y valve goes overboard the other goes to the Jerry can. I'd like to install a legitimate holding tank and I think the storage compartment on the Port side of the V berth is a good spot. Here's my question... The current opening to that storage compartment is very small, just barely fits the square 5 gallon jerry can. Can I make that opening bigger without affecting the structural integrity of the boat? I understand that I'll have to make the hatch sturdy so it won't fall through when you sleep in the v berth. There is a lot more to do, like install and plumb a pump out deck plate. But the placement of the holding tank, and finding one seems to be the hardest part. Thanks for your help, Collin ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List V Berth Holding Tank
Welcome to the list! It seems like you're doing it right. Just a couple of pointers: - If you have selected the digest option and you receive the list digests, DO NOT reply to them. - Try to trim the message tails to minimize the message size. -Many email clients organize emails according according to their subject in what is sometimes called conversation view. Change the subject to start a new discussion or if the discussion has shifted. Don't change the subject if you want to keep people engaged. - Some people have complained about the quantity of emails clogging up their inbox. Most email clients have the ability to set rules so that any incoming email from cnc-list@cnc-list.com gets redirected to a separate folder instead of the inbox. You can turn the incoming mail notifications on/off for this separate folder. - You can search the list with a Google phrase: "site: cnc-list" and then add your search criteria. Or by going to: http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/ - Use Picasa, Photo Bucket, Google Drive, or similar to upload any photos or files and then share a hyperlink in your email. Trying to get your photos below the size threshold is a challenge and besides it just uses more bandwidth that Stu has to pay for. - We've all developed a friendly closing by which we state our name, vessel name, make, model, and hailing port. - Numerous people over the years have questioned the idea of an email list. Suggestions of all sorts have come through for forums and Facebook pages. Long story short, we're all happy to be members of such a great community. If you don't like it, we'll be sorry to see you go. - This is Stu's list. He graciously continues to acts as the ADMIN despite no longer owning a C He also pays for the list out of pocket and rarely askes for any contributions. If you feel so moved please give financial support. IIRC Stu had suggested that amongst the 700 list members if everyone paid ~$10 per year it would cover his expenses. You can arrange payment here: http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/chandlery_2/store.php?crn=226 Any other questions or things we can do to make your experience better just let us know. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C 37+ Solomons, MD On Oct 11, 2016 7:54 PM, "Collin Ferguson via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Hello, This is my first posting to this list. I'm used to forums like on > the Moyer site, so hopefully I'm doing this right. > > I have a 1974 C 30 MK1. To my knowledge, it was built without a > blackwater holding tank for the Head. At some point over the last 40 years > a P.O. put a 5 gallon Jerry can in a storage compartment in the V Berth and > installed a Y valve after the macerator. One side of the Y valve goes > overboard the other goes to the Jerry can. > > I'd like to install a legitimate holding tank and I think the storage > compartment on the Port side of the V berth is a good spot. > > Here's my question... > > The current opening to that storage compartment is very small, just barely > fits the square 5 gallon jerry can. Can I make that opening bigger without > affecting the structural integrity of the boat? I understand that I'll > have to make the hatch sturdy so it won't fall through when you sleep in > the v berth. There is a lot more to do, like install and plumb a pump out > deck plate. But the placement of the holding tank, and finding one seems > to be the hardest part. > > Thanks for your help, > > Collin > > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you > like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All > Contributions are greatly appreciated! > > ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List V Berth Holding Tank
Colin, Nauta makes some good flexible tanks. I’ve had one in my 35-3 for over 15 years and no problems or smells. Jake Jake Brodersen C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress” Hampton VA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Collin Ferguson via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 19:49 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Collin Ferguson <cferg...@yahoo.com> Subject: Stus-List V Berth Holding Tank Hello, This is my first posting to this list. I'm used to forums like on the Moyer site, so hopefully I'm doing this right. I have a 1974 C 30 MK1. To my knowledge, it was built without a blackwater holding tank for the Head. At some point over the last 40 years a P.O. put a 5 gallon Jerry can in a storage compartment in the V Berth and installed a Y valve after the macerator. One side of the Y valve goes overboard the other goes to the Jerry can. I'd like to install a legitimate holding tank and I think the storage compartment on the Port side of the V berth is a good spot. Here's my question... The current opening to that storage compartment is very small, just barely fits the square 5 gallon jerry can. Can I make that opening bigger without affecting the structural integrity of the boat? I understand that I'll have to make the hatch sturdy so it won't fall through when you sleep in the v berth. There is a lot more to do, like install and plumb a pump out deck plate. But the placement of the holding tank, and finding one seems to be the hardest part. Thanks for your help, Collin ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List V Berth Holding Tank
Hi Collin, Welcome. If you look at the various 30-1 brochures ( http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/brochures/brochuresndx.htm ), it seems C may not have installed a holding tank originally, but began doing it somewhere in the production run. For example http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/brochures/30foot/30b2pg02.htm says "Washroom Port side ... large locker outboard with double sliding doors for toilet articles. Stowage under". And http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/brochures/30foot/30b3pg04.htm says "WASHROOM Port side - ... large storage locker with sliding doors" and "Interior Equipment and Fittings: Marine toilet with retention device for those areas requiring it". But http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/brochures/30foot/30b1pg02.htm says "TANKAGE: Holding: 13 U.S. gallon tank". I have hull #7, built September 1972. I just bought it in January. My boat has a holding tank in the washroom on the port side outboard, behind those sliding doors. The PO advertised "complete new holding tank" as part of work he did in 2012. I don't know if he installed one in the same place as an old one, or what. I believe I have the invoice on the boat, showing what he ordered and where he ordered it from. If you're interested in that, I could get it next time I'm at the boat and send you a scan of it. But I would imagine you could install a holding tank in that location, and only have to deal with removing and replacing (and custom fitting) wood paneling and trim etc, instead of installing one in the stowage compartment under the port side of the V berth and having to enlarge the fiberglass opening there and run the plumbing into there, etc. Best Regards, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Collin Ferguson via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: "cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: "Collin Ferguson" <cferg...@yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 5:49:16 PM Subject: Stus-List V Berth Holding Tank Hello, This is my first posting to this list. I'm used to forums like on the Moyer site, so hopefully I'm doing this right. I have a 1974 C 30 MK1. To my knowledge, it was built without a blackwater holding tank for the Head. At some point over the last 40 years a P.O. put a 5 gallon Jerry can in a storage compartment in the V Berth and installed a Y valve after the macerator. One side of the Y valve goes overboard the other goes to the Jerry can. I'd like to install a legitimate holding tank and I think the storage compartment on the Port side of the V berth is a good spot. Here's my question... The current opening to that storage compartment is very small, just barely fits the square 5 gallon jerry can. Can I make that opening bigger without affecting the structural integrity of the boat? I understand that I'll have to make the hatch sturdy so it won't fall through when you sleep in the v berth. There is a lot more to do, like install and plumb a pump out deck plate. But the placement of the holding tank, and finding one seems to be the hardest part. Thanks for your help, Collin ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List V Berth Holding Tank
Hello, This is my first posting to this list. I'm used to forums like on the Moyer site, so hopefully I'm doing this right. I have a 1974 C 30 MK1. To my knowledge, it was built without a blackwater holding tank for the Head. At some point over the last 40 years a P.O. put a 5 gallon Jerry can in a storage compartment in the V Berth and installed a Y valve after the macerator. One side of the Y valve goes overboard the other goes to the Jerry can. I'd like to install a legitimate holding tank and I think the storage compartment on the Port side of the V berth is a good spot. Here's my question... The current opening to that storage compartment is very small, just barely fits the square 5 gallon jerry can. Can I make that opening bigger without affecting the structural integrity of the boat? I understand that I'll have to make the hatch sturdy so it won't fall through when you sleep in the v berth. There is a lot more to do, like install and plumb a pump out deck plate. But the placement of the holding tank, and finding one seems to be the hardest part. Thanks for your help, Collin___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
