Re: [cobirds] Trespassing at Box Elder Creek

[Christine Alexander]

If you use The Waze app while driving around out there the areas that are
airport property are shaded gray, and will give everyone an idea of where
to expect patrol encounters and the boundaries.

Christine Alexander

On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 19:58 Gary Brower  wrote:

> Wow,
>
> Following all of these posts makes me wonder whether there’s someone (not
> me) who — as happened some months ago with a different property — who can
> approach the REAL owner (whether its DIA or someone else) and get a
> definitive answer. Is this a DFO issue? Or something like that?
>
> It would seem that the “right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is
> doing”.
>
> Gary Brower
> Unincorporated Arapahoe County
> (A long ways south of the area in question!)
>
>
> On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:45 PM, Robert Raker  wrote:
>
> Sorry to hear this Karen. I was out there on June 7th and got chased out
> by this totally obnoxious guy from Petropro Engineering, I assume one of
> the oil field service companies out there. He hassled Bil and I and said we
> were on private property owned by the airport and he was going to call the
> airport security guys and they would prosecute as we could be muslim
> terrorists. Not a pleasant experience and we never did get to see the RHWO
> of OROR.
>
> Rob Raker
> Lakewood, CO
> Jefferson County
>
> On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 11:58:17 AM UTC-6, Karen Drozda wrote:
>>
>> I drove out to Box Elder Creek today to catch an Orchard Oriole. I was
>> stopped by DIA patrol and was told this is was airport land and restricted.
>> PLEASE! Do not go out there to bird. The guy who stopped me said that it
>> will soon be patrolled by Homeland Security etc. due to it being
>> restricted. I assured him I would get the word out. Thanks. BTW no OROR :(
>>
>
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Re: [cobirds] Trespassing at Box Elder Creek

[Gary Brower]

Wow,

Following all of these posts makes me wonder whether there’s someone (not me) 
who — as happened some months ago with a different property — who can approach 
the REAL owner (whether its DIA or someone else) and get a definitive answer. 
Is this a DFO issue? Or something like that?

It would seem that the “right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing”.

Gary Brower
Unincorporated Arapahoe County 
(A long ways south of the area in question!)
 

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:45 PM, Robert Raker  wrote:
> 
> Sorry to hear this Karen. I was out there on June 7th and got chased out by 
> this totally obnoxious guy from Petropro Engineering, I assume one of the oil 
> field service companies out there. He hassled Bil and I and said we were on 
> private property owned by the airport and he was going to call the airport 
> security guys and they would prosecute as we could be muslim terrorists. Not 
> a pleasant experience and we never did get to see the RHWO of OROR.
> 
> Rob Raker
> Lakewood, CO
> Jefferson County
> 
> On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 11:58:17 AM UTC-6, Karen Drozda wrote:
> I drove out to Box Elder Creek today to catch an Orchard Oriole. I was 
> stopped by DIA patrol and was told this is was airport land and restricted. 
> PLEASE! Do not go out there to bird. The guy who stopped me said that it will 
> soon be patrolled by Homeland Security etc. due to it being restricted. I 
> assured him I would get the word out. Thanks. BTW no OROR :(  
> 
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>  
> .

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Re: [cobirds] Trespassing at Box Elder Creek

['Norm Lewis' via Colorado Birds]

After reading Patrick's account, perhaps I need to reconsider!
Norm LewisLakewood 

-Original Message-
From: 'Birding' via Colorado Birds 
To: endin...@gmail.com
Cc: Colorado Birds 
Sent: Thu, Jun 11, 2020 5:33 pm
Subject: Re: [cobirds] Trespassing at Box Elder Creek

I was just out there- patrol asked if I were birding. I said yes and waved the 
binos. He said “Great! Have fun!” I think some of those folks have a “because I 
can complex”. I had one try to chase me off the (public) right-of-way over at 
the burrowing owl area. I politely declined and she took off, muttering about 
calling the police. Give some folks a badge, no matter how insubstantial, and 
they tend to get above their raisin’, as they say in country music. 
There is no signage in that area, and I have to doubt if there is serious 
concern about it. If I prove to be wrong, I’ll hit you up for bail.

Norm Lewis
Lakewood 
Sent from my iPhone


> On Jun 11, 2020, at 4:32 PM, Eric Dinkel  wrote:
> 
> So interesting the lack of consistency with this out at Box Elder and 
> surrounding area. I was told a similar thing back in January at the creek 
> itself. Then last week I was tempted by the cassin’s and grasshopper sparrows 
> (and other cool birds) and headed back out. Encountered 3 different patrols 
> (one from inside the fence near runways) and all 3 said a okay- have fun 
> birding. 
> My guess is the airport doesn’t have a clear policy on birding out there so 
> each patrol decides what to say in the moment. Just my two cents. 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Eric Dinkel 
> Denver
> 
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Re: [cobirds] Trespassing at Box Elder Creek

['Birding' via Colorado Birds]

I was just out there- patrol asked if I were birding. I said yes and waved the 
binos. He said “Great! Have fun!” I think some of those folks have a “because I 
can complex”. I had one try to chase me off the (public) right-of-way over at 
the burrowing owl area. I politely declined and she took off, muttering about 
calling the police. Give some folks a badge, no matter how insubstantial, and 
they tend to get above their raisin’, as they say in country music. 
There is no signage in that area, and I have to doubt if there is serious 
concern about it. If I prove to be wrong, I’ll hit you up for bail.

Norm Lewis
Lakewood 
Sent from my iPhone


> On Jun 11, 2020, at 4:32 PM, Eric Dinkel  wrote:
> 
> So interesting the lack of consistency with this out at Box Elder and 
> surrounding area. I was told a similar thing back in January at the creek 
> itself. Then last week I was tempted by the cassin’s and grasshopper sparrows 
> (and other cool birds) and headed back out. Encountered 3 different patrols 
> (one from inside the fence near runways) and all 3 said a okay- have fun 
> birding. 
> My guess is the airport doesn’t have a clear policy on birding out there so 
> each patrol decides what to say in the moment. Just my two cents. 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Eric Dinkel 
> Denver
> 
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Re: [cobirds] Trespassing at Box Elder Creek

[Patrick O'Driscoll]

Thanks, Karen, for the note.
I regret that I did not see it while in the field today . . . in fact, I
started my eBird list for Box Elder Creek about 3 minutes after you posted
here.
Which is why I was still oblivious when I posted to CoBirds this afternoon
after sighting the pair of Red-headed Woodpeckers working on a cavity nest
along the creek.
I apologize to CoBirds readers for not knowing that word had already gone
out here about trespassing at Box Elder.
I was not flouting the rules, but I was careless in my ignorance of them.

I, too, was approached as I departed Box Elder Creek a little after 2 p.m.
A friendly and polite guy with USDA's APHIS "wildlife services" (he works
in the area to minimize wildlife-aircraft encounters) advised me of the
off-limits status. In fact, portions of some roads many of us have
routinely driven there -- notably Hudson Road north of 72nd Avenue -- are
supposed to be entirely off-limits. Personally, I think the airport's
"PRIVATE PROPERTY" signs are a little ambiguous (more on that below), but I
freely admit I had not read the "fine print" at the bottom.

I had birded across the east side of the airport all morning and into the
afternoon, starting at 56th and Hudson Road (aka Hudson Mile Road), working
up north of 72nd to 96th, along 96th across the creek and back, and then
north along Umpire Road (which parallels the easternmost airport security
fence at the end of the east-west runway in DIA's northeast corner) and
over to Box Elder Creek @ 104th Avenue.
Most of those roads, according to the guy from APHIS, are off-limits, as is
all the land along them, including any unmarked roads that branch off them
(usually oil-well access roads).
I suppose that technically, we can bird from the shoulder of the roads that
are still open to us, but that's all. In a way, it's a little like driving
the Wildlife Loop at Rocky Mountain Arsenal NWR, where you can't get out
and walk around, and there are a number of side roads labeled off-limits.
Unfortunately, virtually none of the side roads is labeled that way, and
the white "PRIVATE PROPERTY" signs are far-flung and
fewer-and-farther-between. I think most if not all of us missed that fine
print saying it's all private and we're not allowed to stray off the main
roads.
In most cases, that "PRIVATE PROPERTY" sign is paired with a white,
same-size "NO DUMPING" sign stacked atop it. It's hard not to assume that
together, they apply not to those unmarked side roads or to an old
two-track trail, unsigned and unfenced, along a shaded, grassy creek, Turns
out they apply to almost EVERYthing around them.

And you know what they say about "ass-u-me" . . . . I was wrong, and the
guy from APHIS set me straight.
BTW, there's one of those "PRIVATE PROPERTY/NO DUMPING" double-signs posted
on 1o4th just before you reach Box Elder Creek -- clearly visible IF you're
coming from the east (driving west on 104th from Imbogen Road).
But there's no such sign on the west side, and having come in from the
south/west, I assumed (that word again) the creek was wide open.
Alas, open no more, if it ever was.

Patrick O'Driscoll
Denver



On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 4:32 PM Eric Dinkel  wrote:

> So interesting the lack of consistency with this out at Box Elder and
> surrounding area. I was told a similar thing back in January at the creek
> itself. Then last week I was tempted by the cassin’s and grasshopper
> sparrows (and other cool birds) and headed back out. Encountered 3
> different patrols (one from inside the fence near runways) and all 3 said a
> okay- have fun birding.
> My guess is the airport doesn’t have a clear policy on birding out there
> so each patrol decides what to say in the moment. Just my two cents.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Eric Dinkel
> Denver
>
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> .
>

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[cobirds] Trespassing at Box Elder Creek

[Eric Dinkel]

So interesting the lack of consistency with this out at Box Elder and 
surrounding area. I was told a similar thing back in January at the creek 
itself. Then last week I was tempted by the cassin’s and grasshopper sparrows 
(and other cool birds) and headed back out. Encountered 3 different patrols 
(one from inside the fence near runways) and all 3 said a okay- have fun 
birding. 
My guess is the airport doesn’t have a clear policy on birding out there so 
each patrol decides what to say in the moment. Just my two cents. 

Cheers,

Eric Dinkel 
Denver

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[cobirds] Trespassing at Box Elder Creek

[Karen Drozda]

I drove out to Box Elder Creek today to catch an Orchard Oriole. I was 
stopped by DIA patrol and was told this is was airport land and restricted. 
PLEASE! Do not go out there to bird. The guy who stopped me said that it 
will soon be patrolled by Homeland Security etc. due to it being 
restricted. I assured him I would get the word out. Thanks. BTW no OROR :(  

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