Re: GetMonitorFromWindow

[Mike]

No, you should not implement it. Macintosh HIG are different than for 
Windows. Windows does a lot of bad, brain-dead stuff. Just because it's 
done on Windows doesn't mean that is the right way to do it on the Mac. 
As a *professional developer* it is your job to tell your client when 
he/she is wrong.


Just because some people drink too much and crash their cars into 
telephone poles doesn't mean I should do the same.


Mike

Apparao Mulpuri wrote:

Actually this is one of our client requirement, he simply follows the
windows product(where this functionity is available). So i should
implement it.

If APIs available, Could you please provide those

Thanks,
- Apparao

On 3/7/08, Nick Zitzmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Mar 6, 2008, at 10:48 PM, Apparao Mulpuri wrote:


So you mean --- there is no APIs avialable.


There is, but you really shouldn't be doing what you're trying to do
unless you have an extremely good reason. It's perfectly OK for a user
to have a window straddle two screens.

Nick Zitzmann




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Re: GetMonitorFromWindow

[John Stiles]

Well all right then, the OP should check out the NSWindow delegate 
methods, and NSScreen. :)



Randall Meadows wrote:

On Mar 7, 2008, at 9:38 AM, John Stiles wrote:

I'm going to jump on the bandwagon and say that your client is wrong. 
Mac apps do not and should not do this.


Sorry, I've got to jump in here as well, as much as I've tried to keep 
my mouth shut.


Apparao Mulpuri posted a question requesting help.  He posted only the 
relevant details of his problem, not the entire backstory of the 
problem or the requirements (or lack thereof) leading to the problem.


Immediately, people posted--people who knew the solution to the 
problem--NOT the solution, but rather rants second-guessing the OP.  
It took additional posts in order to coax out the correct solution, 
one that fit his (unstated) requirements.  Are we now going to have to 
start detailing project and client requirements when we ask for help, 
in order to actually get that help, and drag the signal:noise ratio of 
this list down to abysmal depths?


And (not to pick on John or anyone in particular, but just making a 
general statement), how 'bout in the future, if you know the solution, 
actually post it, and then (gently!) suggest that perhaps this isn't 
the best way to handle the situation and that perhaps a rethinking of 
the design might be in order (or even suggest an alternate solution).  
That way, you've been helpful, and you've pointed out--to perhaps a 
programmer new to the high-standards Macintosh world--that that's not 
the standard way we do things.


And then, let the OP decide whether to make us happy, or keep his 
employer/client happy.  Personally, I know who I'd choose to keep 
happy (no offense to you fine folks here, but you don't put food on my 
family's table and pay to keep my house warm).


Yes, there standards that, when deviated from, can potentially ruin a 
product's chances of success.
And yes, there are very legitimate reasons for deviating from Mac UI 
and UE standards.  I'm wagering that consistency of cross-platform 
in-house applications is probably the driving force in this case; less 
confusion when employees move from one platform to another, and only 1 
manual and help desk script to maintain.


And I say all this from the perspective of one who's had to do 
something very similar to the original question: making sure that a 
window remained solely on one screen (back in the OS 9 days).  My 
client had monitors that weren't the same resolution, and a window 
crossing the boundaries looked stupid.  This was a *huge* client for 
my company at the time, and to tell them they were wrong and we 
weren't going to meet their requirements would, shall we say, not have 
been a good move for either myself nor my company, to put it mildly.


Sorry this turned into such a harsh sounding rant; that certainly 
wasn't my intention, but I've been on the receiving end of what I 
talked about, as well as being guilty of being on the other end as 
well.  I just feel it's easier (for all involved) to answer the 
question asked, if there is an answer, rather than start out in a 
confrontational manner.


randy <- descending from the soap box
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Re: GetMonitorFromWindow

[John Stiles]

DVD Player is a special case—Apple is legally bound to prevent other 
apps from viewing the decrypted contents of the DVD. Recall that 
theoretically, DVDs are an encrypted/copy-protected medium. They jump 
through various hoops to make sure that other apps can't see the 
decrypted/decoded pixels, and forcing the window onto a single screen is 
likely to be a part of that process. (They probably coordinate with the 
video driver to keep the pixels private.)


I am pretty sure that if another process tries to read those pixels, 
they just get a solid color.



Daniel Kennett wrote:
Try and make DVD Player span multiple screens - it simply won't. Since 
DVD Player is hardware accelerated, I was going to suggest that 
hardware accelerating across multiple screens is hard (especially when 
said screens are connected to different cards), but World of Warcraft 
manages just fine, so who knows?


(I've only just realised I'm quoting a Blizzard guy!)

-- Daniel
On 7 Mar 2008, at 16:38, John Stiles wrote:

I'm going to jump on the bandwagon and say that your client is wrong. 
Mac apps do not and should not do this.


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Re: GetMonitorFromWindow

[Gary L. Wade]

Also, there are certain other presentation-based applications where this kind 
of functionality is desired.  For example, when you want to go fullscreen with 
any kind of media, be it from iPhoto, PowerPoint, Keynote, etc., you may indeed 
wish the presentation window to situate itself fully on a particular screen and 
leave another screen available for utility-based windows that can be moved 
around.

For the most part, though, it's not a good idea just to snap a window onto 
another screen.

Now, as I think about it, maybe using one of those new gestures (I really 
haven't played with them much on the MacBook Air) would be the best way to 
"throw" a window to another screen where it would land in a centered or 
well-placed manner.  And, for the really non-busy developer, someone should 
interpret a special gesture that would do a bank shot into the trash can.

>Try and make DVD Player span multiple screens - it simply won't. Since  
>DVD Player is hardware accelerated, I was going to suggest that  
>hardware accelerating across multiple screens is hard (especially when  
>said screens are connected to different cards), but World of Warcraft  
>manages just fine, so who knows?
>
>(I've only just realised I'm quoting a Blizzard guy!)
>
>-- Daniel 
>
>On 7 Mar 2008, at 16:38, John Stiles wrote:
>
>> I'm going to jump on the bandwagon and say that your client is  
>> wrong. Mac apps do not and should not do this.
>
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Re: GetMonitorFromWindow

[Randall Meadows]

On Mar 7, 2008, at 9:38 AM, John Stiles wrote:

I'm going to jump on the bandwagon and say that your client is  
wrong. Mac apps do not and should not do this.


Sorry, I've got to jump in here as well, as much as I've tried to keep  
my mouth shut.


Apparao Mulpuri posted a question requesting help.  He posted only the  
relevant details of his problem, not the entire backstory of the  
problem or the requirements (or lack thereof) leading to the problem.


Immediately, people posted--people who knew the solution to the  
problem--NOT the solution, but rather rants second-guessing the OP.   
It took additional posts in order to coax out the correct solution,  
one that fit his (unstated) requirements.  Are we now going to have to  
start detailing project and client requirements when we ask for help,  
in order to actually get that help, and drag the signal:noise ratio of  
this list down to abysmal depths?


And (not to pick on John or anyone in particular, but just making a  
general statement), how 'bout in the future, if you know the solution,  
actually post it, and then (gently!) suggest that perhaps this isn't  
the best way to handle the situation and that perhaps a rethinking of  
the design might be in order (or even suggest an alternate solution).   
That way, you've been helpful, and you've pointed out--to perhaps a  
programmer new to the high-standards Macintosh world--that that's not  
the standard way we do things.


And then, let the OP decide whether to make us happy, or keep his  
employer/client happy.  Personally, I know who I'd choose to keep  
happy (no offense to you fine folks here, but you don't put food on my  
family's table and pay to keep my house warm).


Yes, there standards that, when deviated from, can potentially ruin a  
product's chances of success.
And yes, there are very legitimate reasons for deviating from Mac UI  
and UE standards.  I'm wagering that consistency of cross-platform in- 
house applications is probably the driving force in this case; less  
confusion when employees move from one platform to another, and only 1  
manual and help desk script to maintain.


And I say all this from the perspective of one who's had to do  
something very similar to the original question: making sure that a  
window remained solely on one screen (back in the OS 9 days).  My  
client had monitors that weren't the same resolution, and a window  
crossing the boundaries looked stupid.  This was a *huge* client for  
my company at the time, and to tell them they were wrong and we  
weren't going to meet their requirements would, shall we say, not have  
been a good move for either myself nor my company, to put it mildly.


Sorry this turned into such a harsh sounding rant; that certainly  
wasn't my intention, but I've been on the receiving end of what I  
talked about, as well as being guilty of being on the other end as  
well.  I just feel it's easier (for all involved) to answer the  
question asked, if there is an answer, rather than start out in a  
confrontational manner.


randy <- descending from the soap box
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Re: GetMonitorFromWindow

[Daniel Kennett]

Try and make DVD Player span multiple screens - it simply won't. Since  
DVD Player is hardware accelerated, I was going to suggest that  
hardware accelerating across multiple screens is hard (especially when  
said screens are connected to different cards), but World of Warcraft  
manages just fine, so who knows?


(I've only just realised I'm quoting a Blizzard guy!)

-- Daniel 


On 7 Mar 2008, at 16:38, John Stiles wrote:

I'm going to jump on the bandwagon and say that your client is  
wrong. Mac apps do not and should not do this.


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Re: GetMonitorFromWindow

[John Stiles]

I'm going to jump on the bandwagon and say that your client is wrong. 
Mac apps do not and should not do this.



Roy Lovejoy wrote:


On Mar 6, 2008, at 9:48 PM, Apparao Mulpuri wrote:


So you mean --- there is no APIs avialable.


no, there are of course APIs available.

I was just trying to help you

a) not alienate your customers
b) avoid work that does not need to be coded.


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Re: GetMonitorFromWindow

[Roy Lovejoy]

On Mar 6, 2008, at 9:48 PM, Apparao Mulpuri wrote:


So you mean --- there is no APIs avialable.


no, there are of course APIs available.

I was just trying to help you

a) not alienate your customers
b) avoid work that does not need to be coded.


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Re: GetMonitorFromWindow

[Trouble Maker]

Might also want to let your client know that you care more about meeting
requirements than providing optimal value.
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Re: GetMonitorFromWindow

[Jens Alfke]

On 6 Mar '08, at 10:12 PM, Apparao Mulpuri wrote:


Actually this is one of our client requirement, he simply follows the
windows product(where this functionity is available).


You might want to let the client know that this sort of literal-minded  
porting has resulted in a number of failed Mac products over the years  
(most notoriously Microsoft Word 6.) Mac users have higher standards  
for UI consistency and quality than most Windows users, and reviewers  
are quick to point out if a product isn't "Mac-like".



If APIs available, Could you please provide those


It's not hard to do this, if you must. Look at the NSScreen class.

—Jens

smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
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Re: GetMonitorFromWindow

[Nick Zitzmann]

On Mar 6, 2008, at 11:12 PM, Apparao Mulpuri wrote:


Actually this is one of our client requirement, he simply follows the
windows product(where this functionity is available). So i should
implement it.

If APIs available, Could you please provide those



OK, I guess a business requirement counts as being a very good  
reason... -[NSWindow screen] returns the screen that the majority of  
the window is on. Check the NSScreen documentation for more details.


Nick Zitzmann





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Re: GetMonitorFromWindow

[Apparao Mulpuri]

Actually this is one of our client requirement, he simply follows the
windows product(where this functionity is available). So i should
implement it.

If APIs available, Could you please provide those

Thanks,
- Apparao

On 3/7/08, Nick Zitzmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Mar 6, 2008, at 10:48 PM, Apparao Mulpuri wrote:
>
> > So you mean --- there is no APIs avialable.
>
>
> There is, but you really shouldn't be doing what you're trying to do
> unless you have an extremely good reason. It's perfectly OK for a user
> to have a window straddle two screens.
>
> Nick Zitzmann
> 
>
>
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Re: GetMonitorFromWindow

[Nick Zitzmann]

On Mar 6, 2008, at 10:48 PM, Apparao Mulpuri wrote:


So you mean --- there is no APIs avialable.



There is, but you really shouldn't be doing what you're trying to do  
unless you have an extremely good reason. It's perfectly OK for a user  
to have a window straddle two screens.


Nick Zitzmann


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Re: GetMonitorFromWindow

[Apparao Mulpuri]

So you mean --- there is no APIs avialable.

- Apparao

On 3/7/08, Roy Lovejoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Mar 6, 2008, at 9:01 PM, Apparao Mulpuri wrote:
>
> > Hi List,
> >
> >  Presently i am adding DualMonitor support to my application. If
> > user drags application window to more than 50% portion to other
> > monitor, i have to dispaly it fully in second monitor, otherwise undo
> > the drag operation.
>
> so... you don't want your application to behave as a normal mac
> application has for the last 21 years
> of multiple monitorness?
>
> since 1987, if the user makes window spans multiple monitors, it's
> the user's choice to do so.
> 'correcting' the user by moving the window AFTER they have positioned
> it is a sure way annoy the heck out of them.
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Re: GetMonitorFromWindow

[Roy Lovejoy]

On Mar 6, 2008, at 9:01 PM, Apparao Mulpuri wrote:


Hi List,

 Presently i am adding DualMonitor support to my application. If
user drags application window to more than 50% portion to other
monitor, i have to dispaly it fully in second monitor, otherwise undo
the drag operation.


so... you don't want your application to behave as a normal mac  
application has for the last 21 years

of multiple monitorness?

since 1987, if the user makes window spans multiple monitors, it's  
the user's choice to do so.
'correcting' the user by moving the window AFTER they have positioned  
it is a sure way annoy the heck out of them.

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GetMonitorFromWindow

[Apparao Mulpuri]

Hi List,

 Presently i am adding DualMonitor support to my application. If
user drags application window to more than 50% portion to other
monitor, i have to dispaly it fully in second monitor, otherwise undo
the drag operation.

 Is Apple provides any api like GetMonitorFromWindow() in VB?



Thanks,
- Apparao.
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