Re: Installing older OS X

[Lee Ann Rucker]

> On Nov 17, 2015, at 9:21 PM, Quincey Morris 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Nov 17, 2015, at 21:03 , Charles Srstka  wrote:
>> 
>> I can personally vouch for Mountain Lion running well in VMWare. Where it 
>> gets hard is when you are running Snow Leopard or earlier, and not for any 
>> technological reason—those versions are artificially blocked from running in 
>> a virtual machine unless you are running the Server version, due to certain 
>> terms in the EULA. Apple seems to have revised the license for Lion and 
>> later, though, and those versions generally have no problems running in 
>> VMWare (I haven’t tried it in Parallels).
> 
> I ended up going with VMWare (because Lee Ann, not because I have anything 
> against Parallels). It was straightforward, except that I don’t see that the 
> mechanism for creating an OS X VM is *discoverable* in the app.

Ouch. Trust me, I'm taking notes on the whole thread. D is a shortcut, not 
meant to be the main way to choose it. You only need to pick the Installer app 
itself, you don't need to dig inside for the dmg - that's how I knew what the 
dmg path was, I looked it up in that code.

> It would have been clearer, I think, if the initial wizard window showed an 
> entry for choosing an OS X installer, along with the handful of other things 
> that are in its main list.

Hmm... it's the same path as the big button, so a separate button to do the 
same thing might be more confusing. But we could change the wording and icon - 
who really uses CDs anymore, anyway?

> They probably don’t want to be too overt about it. Apple’s not going all 
> thermonuclear anymore on VM software allowing their OS anymore, but ya know, 
> don’t want to jinx it.

We actually do; it's a nice feature, we want you to find it. Apple's pretty 
chill about it as long as we stay inside the lines.

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Re: Installing older OS X

[Alex Zavatone]

Hy, that's a nice little tip. Thanks, man.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 18, 2015, at 2:31 AM, Charles Srstka  wrote:

>> On Nov 18, 2015, at 1:22 AM, Quincey Morris 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Nov 17, 2015, at 23:13 , Charles Srstka >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Oh, sorry, I didn’t mean to insult with the “without the quotes” bit.
>> 
>> No, that wasn’t it. When I read your post, I fell over laughing at ‘Type 
>> ⌘-Shift-G, then “NameOfApp.app/Contents”’, because the chances of my 
>> remembering that are about zero.
>> 
>> (If you want to insult me, you’re going to have to try harder than that.)
> 
> Hehe, okay, just wanted to make sure. I wasn’t quite sure how to read that, 
> and didn’t want to offend.
> 
> The ⌘-Shift-G thing has been useful to me more than enough times to justify 
> the headspace. If it helps, it comes from the shortcut for the Finder’s “Go 
> to Folder…” menu item. There’s also the alternative of just hitting the ‘/‘ 
> key, which also brings up the sheet, but it also adds a slash into the text 
> field that you’ll have to delete before typing in the relative path.
> 
> An alternative way to do it is to right-click on the app in the Finder and 
> choose “Show Package Contents”, after which you can drag the Contents folder 
> into the Open dialog box and it will autonavigate there.
> 
> Charles
> 
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Re: Installing older OS X

[Quincey Morris]

On Nov 18, 2015, at 12:16 , Lee Ann Rucker  wrote:
> 
> Hmm... it's the same path as the big button

Ah, I see what happened. I didn’t realize that the Big Button was a separate 
choice, I thought it was a picture that illustrated what the list entries 
meant. Why? Because my selection color is set to orange, and the USB disk color 
in the image is about the same orange. So I assumed that what was orange (the 
whole picture, or just part of it) represented the *kind* of source I was 
choosing from the list on the left — visual explication. It never occurred to 
me to leave the picture selected and click Continue.

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Re: Installing older OS X

[Graham Cox]

Yeah, Apple really make it hard to set up older OS installs for dev testing.

If you copy the old installer to the hard disk partition and set it as the boot 
drive and reboot, does that work? The installers are (I believe) designed to 
run with no OS at all.

—Graham






> On 18 Nov 2015, at 11:50 AM, Quincey Morris 
>  wrote:
> 
> I want to install 10.8.5 somewhere, to debug an app compatibility issue on 
> that OS, but I can’t seem to figure out how.
> 
> I have an empty hard disk I can use, but there’s nothing installed on it. 
> I’ve got the Mountain Lion installer app from the App Store, but it won’t run 
> under El Capitan. (It’s “too old” to run.) So, without an older OS X to run 
> it on, I can’t get an older OS to run it on. (The Yosemite installer won’t 
> run either.)
> 
> What’s the right way to go about this?
> 
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Re: Installing older OS X

[Roland King]

> 
> Yes, I was thinking that Parallels or VMWare was my next option, but nothing 
> in their product information says anything definitive about getting a VM with 
> an older OS version on it. If I have to *install* the OS, then I’m stuck with 
> the same problem. I assume it’s doable.
> ___

I think it’s do-able - both Parallels and VMWare seem to comprehend the whole 
bootstrapping process of getting something onto nothing. It’ll only take you a 
short time to figure it out, I’d just go for it. 
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Re: Installing older OS X

[Shane Stanley]

On 18 Nov 2015, at 11:50 AM, Quincey Morris 
 wrote:
> 
> I want to install 10.8.5 somewhere, to debug an app compatibility issue on 
> that OS, but I can’t seem to figure out how.

Does this help?




-- 
Shane Stanley 



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Re: Installing older OS X

[Graham Cox]

> On 18 Nov 2015, at 12:21 PM, Quincey Morris 
>  wrote:
> 
> No. It’s no listed as a disk I can start up from.
> 
> 


OK, that’s kind of weird, because I just made a boot disk on a USB stick by 
simply copying the installer onto it, and it shows as a bootable drive. 
Admittedly that’s with a newer installer than 10.8.5, but AFAIK this should 
work as long as you have the full installer, not the combo update. There has to 
be a way to get a blank machine with no OS installed at all up and running.

The Startup Disk preference pane did seem to take a few seconds to recognise 
the drive as bootable.

N.B. The USB boot drive even works on a Windows PC to make a “hackintosh”, so 
should work on a real Mac.

—Graham



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Re: Installing older OS X

[Quincey Morris]

On Nov 17, 2015, at 17:42 , Shane Stanley  wrote:
> 
> Does this help?
> 
>  >

I’ll try it a bit later, but it seems to be an answer. I’d assume, though, that 
I need *two* empty disks for this — one to hold the bootable installer, and the 
other to install the OS onto. Or not. I’ll report back when I find out.

If not this, then virtualization!

Thanks to all.
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Re: Installing older OS X

[Quincey Morris]

On Nov 17, 2015, at 17:02 , Graham Cox  wrote:
> 
> If you copy the old installer to the hard disk partition and set it as the 
> boot drive and reboot, does that work?

No. It’s no listed as a disk I can start up from.

There might be something I can do by restarting with the Option key, and using 
the recovery partition. But I suspect not.


On Nov 17, 2015, at 16:57 , Bryan Vines  wrote:
> 
> I use Parallels to do this. I keep a small collection of OS X virtual 
> machines to test against (including OS X Server 10.6.8).


Yes, I was thinking that Parallels or VMWare was my next option, but nothing in 
their product information says anything definitive about getting a VM with an 
older OS version on it. If I have to *install* the OS, then I’m stuck with the 
same problem. I assume it’s doable.
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Re: Installing older OS X

[Graham Cox]

> On 18 Nov 2015, at 12:30 PM, Graham Cox  wrote:
> 
> N.B. The USB boot drive even works on a Windows PC to make a “hackintosh”, so 
> should work on a real Mac.
> 



AHHH!!! I just remembered something. I needed a utility called ‘UniBeast’ to 
make the USB stick originally. It probably does some magic to make the drive 
bootable. It’s a free download:

http://www.unibeast.com


—Graham



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Re: Installing older OS X

[Sandor Szatmari]

Can you make a bootable USB drive from the installer?  Boot of the USB and 
install from there.

Sandor

On Nov 17, 2015, at 7:50 PM, Quincey Morris 
 wrote:

> I want to install 10.8.5 somewhere, to debug an app compatibility issue on 
> that OS, but I can’t seem to figure out how.
> 
> I have an empty hard disk I can use, but there’s nothing installed on it. 
> I’ve got the Mountain Lion installer app from the App Store, but it won’t run 
> under El Capitan. (It’s “too old” to run.) So, without an older OS X to run 
> it on, I can’t get an older OS to run it on. (The Yosemite installer won’t 
> run either.)
> 
> What’s the right way to go about this?
> 
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Re: Installing older OS X

[Quincey Morris]

On Nov 17, 2015, at 17:52 , Quincey Morris 
 wrote:
> 
> On Nov 17, 2015, at 17:42 , Shane Stanley  > wrote:
>> 
>> Does this help?
>> 
>> > >
> 
> I’ll try it a bit later, but it seems to be an answer.

Actually, I tried it now, and guess what … it doesn’t work pre-Mavericks.
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Re: Installing older OS X

[Charles Srstka]

> On Nov 17, 2015, at 7:21 PM, Quincey Morris 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yes, I was thinking that Parallels or VMWare was my next option, but nothing 
> in their product information says anything definitive about getting a VM with 
> an older OS version on it. If I have to *install* the OS, then I’m stuck with 
> the same problem. I assume it’s doable.

I can personally vouch for Mountain Lion running well in VMWare. Where it gets 
hard is when you are running Snow Leopard or earlier, and not for any 
technological reason—those versions are artificially blocked from running in a 
virtual machine unless you are running the Server version, due to certain terms 
in the EULA. Apple seems to have revised the license for Lion and later, 
though, and those versions generally have no problems running in VMWare (I 
haven’t tried it in Parallels).

Charles

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Re: Installing older OS X

[Quincey Morris]

On Nov 17, 2015, at 21:03 , Charles Srstka  wrote:
> 
> I can personally vouch for Mountain Lion running well in VMWare. Where it 
> gets hard is when you are running Snow Leopard or earlier, and not for any 
> technological reason—those versions are artificially blocked from running in 
> a virtual machine unless you are running the Server version, due to certain 
> terms in the EULA. Apple seems to have revised the license for Lion and 
> later, though, and those versions generally have no problems running in 
> VMWare (I haven’t tried it in Parallels).

I ended up going with VMWare (because Lee Ann, not because I have anything 
against Parallels). It was straightforward, except that I don’t see that the 
mechanism for creating an OS X VM is *discoverable* in the app. The answer was 
to drag the installer app into the setup wizard window, but I don’t know how I 
would know that without searching the web for instructions.

The next thing I’m wondering is if there’s a way to debug the app running in 
the 10.8 VM from Xcode 7.1.1. (This is starting to be more of an Xcode 
question, sorry.) I’m not sure I need this yet, but I can’t remember having 
read if it’s supposed to be possible.
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Re: Installing older OS X

[Charles Srstka]

On Nov 17, 2015, at 11:21 PM, Quincey Morris 
 wrote:
> 
> I ended up going with VMWare (because Lee Ann, not because I have anything 
> against Parallels).

Ah, I didn’t realize one of our contributors here worked at VMWare. Well, all 
the more reason to use it. I’ve been for years, and have never seen a reason to 
switch.

> It was straightforward, except that I don’t see that the mechanism for 
> creating an OS X VM is *discoverable* in the app. The answer was to drag the 
> installer app into the setup wizard window, but I don’t know how I would know 
> that without searching the web for instructions.

I didn’t even know that dragging the installer app there worked. I think what I 
did was go to File -> New, choose “Install from disc or image”, and choose the 
InstallESD.dmg file that’s inside the Mountain Lion installer (I think it was 
still bootable back then; if not, I probably made a bootable USB stick and 
booted it from that).

> The next thing I’m wondering is if there’s a way to debug the app running in 
> the 10.8 VM from Xcode 7.1.1. (This is starting to be more of an Xcode 
> question, sorry.) I’m not sure I need this yet, but I can’t remember having 
> read if it’s supposed to be possible.

Does Xcode 7 still support debugserver? I can’t remember if that’s been dropped 
or not. If it hasn’t, you should probably be able to use that, since the 
virtual machine has access to the network.

Charles

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Re: Installing older OS X

[Quincey Morris]

On Nov 17, 2015, at 21:47 , Charles Srstka  wrote:
> 
> I think what I did was go to File -> New, choose “Install from disc or 
> image”, and choose the InstallESD.dmg file that’s inside the Mountain Lion 
> installer (I think it was still bootable back then

At one point I got there, or somewhere similar that put up a Choose dialog, but 
because the installer is a package, I couldn't navigate into it to get to the 
disk image. (Maybe there’s a magic modifier combination that makes that 
possible.)

It would have been clearer, I think, if the initial wizard window showed an 
entry for choosing an OS X installer, along with the handful of other things 
that are in its main list.

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Re: Installing older OS X

[Maxthon Chan]

Quincey:

Two points:

1) Your machine should be no newer than OS X 10.8.5 or driver issue will happen.
2) You need to create an install media (wiping it in the process) and perform 
an fresh install (wiping the partition in the process).

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 18, 2015, at 08:50, Quincey Morris 
>  wrote:
> 
> I want to install 10.8.5 somewhere, to debug an app compatibility issue on 
> that OS, but I can’t seem to figure out how.
> 
> I have an empty hard disk I can use, but there’s nothing installed on it. 
> I’ve got the Mountain Lion installer app from the App Store, but it won’t run 
> under El Capitan. (It’s “too old” to run.) So, without an older OS X to run 
> it on, I can’t get an older OS to run it on. (The Yosemite installer won’t 
> run either.)
> 
> What’s the right way to go about this?
> 
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Re: Installing older OS X

[Maxthon Chan]

For me the installation media is always an SD card in the built-in card reader 
(which is usually faster than USB if the card itself is fast enough)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 18, 2015, at 09:52, Quincey Morris 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On Nov 17, 2015, at 17:42 , Shane Stanley  wrote:
>> 
>> Does this help?
>> 
>> > >
> 
> I’ll try it a bit later, but it seems to be an answer. I’d assume, though, 
> that I need *two* empty disks for this — one to hold the bootable installer, 
> and the other to install the OS onto. Or not. I’ll report back when I find 
> out.
> 
> If not this, then virtualization!
> 
> Thanks to all.
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Re: Installing older OS X

[Alex Zavatone]

VM Ware?

I'm running 10.6.8 on this Mac, 10.5.whatever on another and keep a few 
external HDs around and spare Macs and install images for this purpose.



On Nov 17, 2015, at 8:02 PM, Graham Cox wrote:

> Yeah, Apple really make it hard to set up older OS installs for dev testing.
> 
> If you copy the old installer to the hard disk partition and set it as the 
> boot drive and reboot, does that work? The installers are (I believe) 
> designed to run with no OS at all.
> 
> —Graham
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 18 Nov 2015, at 11:50 AM, Quincey Morris 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I want to install 10.8.5 somewhere, to debug an app compatibility issue on 
>> that OS, but I can’t seem to figure out how.
>> 
>> I have an empty hard disk I can use, but there’s nothing installed on it. 
>> I’ve got the Mountain Lion installer app from the App Store, but it won’t 
>> run under El Capitan. (It’s “too old” to run.) So, without an older OS X to 
>> run it on, I can’t get an older OS to run it on. (The Yosemite installer 
>> won’t run either.)
>> 
>> What’s the right way to go about this?
>> 
>> ___
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Re: Installing older OS X

[Quincey Morris]

On Nov 17, 2015, at 23:13 , Charles Srstka  wrote:
> 
> Oh, sorry, I didn’t mean to insult with the “without the quotes” bit.

No, that wasn’t it. When I read your post, I fell over laughing at ‘Type 
⌘-Shift-G, then “NameOfApp.app/Contents”’, because the chances of my 
remembering that are about zero.

(If you want to insult me, you’re going to have to try harder than that.)

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Re: Installing older OS X

[Charles Srstka]

> On Nov 18, 2015, at 1:22 AM, Quincey Morris 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Nov 17, 2015, at 23:13 , Charles Srstka  > wrote:
>> 
>> Oh, sorry, I didn’t mean to insult with the “without the quotes” bit.
> 
> No, that wasn’t it. When I read your post, I fell over laughing at ‘Type 
> ⌘-Shift-G, then “NameOfApp.app/Contents”’, because the chances of my 
> remembering that are about zero.
> 
> (If you want to insult me, you’re going to have to try harder than that.)

Hehe, okay, just wanted to make sure. I wasn’t quite sure how to read that, and 
didn’t want to offend.

The ⌘-Shift-G thing has been useful to me more than enough times to justify the 
headspace. If it helps, it comes from the shortcut for the Finder’s “Go to 
Folder…” menu item. There’s also the alternative of just hitting the ‘/‘ key, 
which also brings up the sheet, but it also adds a slash into the text field 
that you’ll have to delete before typing in the relative path.

An alternative way to do it is to right-click on the app in the Finder and 
choose “Show Package Contents”, after which you can drag the Contents folder 
into the Open dialog box and it will autonavigate there.

Charles

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Re: Installing older OS X

[Charles Srstka]

> On Nov 18, 2015, at 12:01 AM, Quincey Morris 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Nov 17, 2015, at 21:47 , Charles Srstka  > wrote:
>> 
>> I think what I did was go to File -> New, choose “Install from disc or 
>> image”, and choose the InstallESD.dmg file that’s inside the Mountain Lion 
>> installer (I think it was still bootable back then
> 
> At one point I got there, or somewhere similar that put up a Choose dialog, 
> but because the installer is a package, I couldn't navigate into it to get to 
> the disk image. (Maybe there’s a magic modifier combination that makes that 
> possible.)

There sure is! Type ⌘-Shift-G, then “NameOfApp.app/Contents”, without the 
quotes, into the resulting sheet.

> It would have been clearer, I think, if the initial wizard window showed an 
> entry for choosing an OS X installer, along with the handful of other things 
> that are in its main list.

They probably don’t want to be too overt about it. Apple’s not going all 
thermonuclear anymore on VM software allowing their OS anymore, but ya know, 
don’t want to jinx it.

Charles

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Re: Installing older OS X

[Quincey Morris]

On Nov 17, 2015, at 22:11 , Charles Srstka  wrote:
> 
> Type ⌘-Shift-G, then “NameOfApp.app/Contents”, without the quotes, into the 
> resulting sheet.

I see. It’s nice to know that developers can do standup too. ;)

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Re: Installing older OS X

[Charles Srstka]

> On Nov 18, 2015, at 12:19 AM, Quincey Morris 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Nov 17, 2015, at 22:11 , Charles Srstka  > wrote:
>> 
>> Type ⌘-Shift-G, then “NameOfApp.app/Contents”, without the quotes, into the 
>> resulting sheet.
> 
> I see. It’s nice to know that developers can do standup too. ;)

Oh, sorry, I didn’t mean to insult with the “without the quotes” bit. I’m just 
extremely used to typing that whenever I describe typing anything that I put 
quotes around. Years of supporting end users (not to mention family members) 
will do that to you. ;-)

Charles
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