Re: NSLog on releasebuild
You're right, of course (I forgot about this). I think I decided not to worry about it too much since it shouldn't make it into production code (if it does, then I did something wrong). My main goal was to keep the macro as simple as I could (or at least, not have to break it onto multiple lines), and having the full path to a file felt like it would add to the clutter. On Jul 23, 2008, at 6:24 PM, Jean-Daniel Dupas wrote: By carefull with the basename function. Theoricaly, it require a mutable string (char * and not const char *), so this logging function may crash (even it for now it works). Le 23 juil. 08 à 20:01, Nate Weaver a écrit : This is the route I follow. I use normal NSLog() statements for conditions that should never happen, and DebugLog() for debugging: #ifdef DEBUG #define DebugLog(s, ...) NSLog((@%s %s:%d s), __func__, basename(__FILE__), __LINE__, ## __VA_ARGS__); #else #define DebugLog(s, ...) #endif The extra info is for context. On Jul 23, 2008, at 11:22 AM, Shawn Erickson wrote: On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 7:48 AM, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, During development and debug I typically use tons of NSLog()- messages to get info what's happening. I don't wish to include these messages to release-build so what is common/recommended way to get rid of them? Should I comment them all out or is there some easier way to disable them or should I just leave them as they are? In theory you could do something like the following (not tried this myself)... #if defined(DEBUG) // or some other trigger for debug logging #define DLog(...) NSLog( __VA_ARGS__ ) #else #define DLog(...) #endif ... then in code ... DLog(@blah); DLog(@blah %@, someObject); etc. -Shawn ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NSLog on releasebuild
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 1:35 PM, Nate Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're right, of course (I forgot about this). I think I decided not to worry about it too much since it shouldn't make it into production code (if it does, then I did something wrong). My main goal was to keep the macro as simple as I could (or at least, not have to break it onto multiple lines), and having the full path to a file felt like it would add to the clutter. Putting potentially subtle and difficult-to-find bugs in your debugging code is in many ways worse than putting into your production code, since it's really tough to debug stuff if you can't even rely on the code that lets you find out what's wrong. As a real simple fix, [[NSString stringWithUTF8String:__FILE__] lastPathComponent] will give you equivalent functionality without the mess, if you use %@ instead of %s in the format string. Mike ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NSLog on releasebuild
Try this #ifdef DEBUG NSLog(Whatever); #endif --- On Wed, 7/23/08, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: NSLog on releasebuild To: Cocoa-Dev List Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 7:48 AM Hello, During development and debug I typically use tons of NSLog()-messages to get info what's happening. I don't wish to include these messages to release-build so what is common/recommended way to get rid of them? Should I comment them all out or is there some easier way to disable them or should I just leave them as they are? Thanks. -Mike ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/howlewere%40yahoo.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NSLog on releasebuild
Hi! I think that you would want an @ symbol before the opening quote: NSLog(@Whatever); Cheers, Andrew On Jul 23, 2008, at 8:18 AM, Ian was here wrote: Try this #ifdef DEBUG NSLog(Whatever); #endif --- On Wed, 7/23/08, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: NSLog on releasebuild To: Cocoa-Dev List Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 7:48 AM Hello, During development and debug I typically use tons of NSLog()-messages to get info what's happening. I don't wish to include these messages to release-build so what is common/recommended way to get rid of them? Should I comment them all out or is there some easier way to disable them or should I just leave them as they are? Thanks. -Mike ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/howlewere %40yahoo.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/andrew.merenbach%40ucla.edu This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NSLog on releasebuild
I'd say that the most important reason for removing the NSLog() statements *might* be the look of the program. Many users who use the Console probably wouldn't like it to become cluttered with detritus from spurious log statements. It makes tech support more difficult if they need to look at their logs for something else, and may confuse the user -- What does ... mean??? Is something wrong? Just a thought. Cheers, Andrew On Jul 23, 2008, at 8:33 AM, Phillip Jacobs wrote: Is there anything particularly wrong with NSLog statements being in a release package? Performance wise? Security wise? Just wondering the root of the question. Thanks, -Phillip On Jul 23, 2008, at 10:30 AM, Andrew Merenbach wrote: Hi! I think that you would want an @ symbol before the opening quote: NSLog(@Whatever); Cheers, Andrew On Jul 23, 2008, at 8:18 AM, Ian was here wrote: Try this #ifdef DEBUG NSLog(Whatever); #endif --- On Wed, 7/23/08, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: NSLog on releasebuild To: Cocoa-Dev List Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 7:48 AM Hello, During development and debug I typically use tons of NSLog()-messages to get info what's happening. I don't wish to include these messages to release-build so what is common/recommended way to get rid of them? Should I comment them all out or is there some easier way to disable them or should I just leave them as they are? Thanks. -Mike ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/howlewere%40yahoo.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/andrew.merenbach%40ucla.edu This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/pjacobs%40cosential.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NSLog on releasebuild
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 7:48 AM, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, During development and debug I typically use tons of NSLog()-messages to get info what's happening. I don't wish to include these messages to release-build so what is common/recommended way to get rid of them? Should I comment them all out or is there some easier way to disable them or should I just leave them as they are? In theory you could do something like the following (not tried this myself)... #if defined(DEBUG) // or some other trigger for debug logging #define DLog(...) NSLog( __VA_ARGS__ ) #else #define DLog(...) #endif ... then in code ... DLog(@blah); DLog(@blah %@, someObject); etc. -Shawn ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NSLog on releasebuild
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 8:33 AM, Phillip Jacobs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there anything particularly wrong with NSLog statements being in a release package? Performance wise? Security wise? Just wondering the root of the question. 1) Possible performance issue (just burning CPU for something not helping the user). 2) Possible battery issue because your logging keeps disk spun up. 3) You application is likely larger then it needs to be. 4) You clutter the users console log with things that they likely don't benefit from. 5) You could be spraying out private information that others could snoop (depending on what you log). ...etc... For our products have a logging system of our own (may retool it to use ASL on Mac OS X) that has a few logging levels defined and based on logging level will only output what is needed for that level or below. Additionally any private information (passwords, sensitive information, etc.) is logged using a special private macro that is only compiled in for internal builds. -Shawn ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NSLog on releasebuild
On Jul 23, 2008, at 6:48 PM, Mike wrote: Hello, During development and debug I typically use tons of NSLog()- messages to get info what's happening. I don't wish to include these messages to release-build so what is common/recommended way to get rid of them? Should I comment them all out or is there some easier way to disable them or should I just leave them as they are? Thanks. -Mike #ifndef DEBUG # define NSLog(...) #endif - Dmitri ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NSLog on releasebuild
Thanks to all. Seems like #ifndef xxx . suites best for my needs which was my original solution. Just wished to ask if there is some switch somewhere in settings to toggle it on/off. btw, is there any predefined var to determine debug/release -build so macro would work automatically? I recall that in MFC DEBUG was automatic defined - which doesn't seem to be so with Cocoa/xCode? -Mike Phillip Jacobs kirjoitti 23.7.2008 kello 18:33: Is there anything particularly wrong with NSLog statements being in a release package? Performance wise? Security wise? Just wondering the root of the question. Thanks, -Phillip On Jul 23, 2008, at 10:30 AM, Andrew Merenbach wrote: Hi! I think that you would want an @ symbol before the opening quote: NSLog(@Whatever); Cheers, Andrew On Jul 23, 2008, at 8:18 AM, Ian was here wrote: Try this #ifdef DEBUG NSLog(Whatever); #endif --- On Wed, 7/23/08, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: NSLog on releasebuild To: Cocoa-Dev List Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 7:48 AM Hello, During development and debug I typically use tons of NSLog()-messages to get info what's happening. I don't wish to include these messages to release-build so what is common/recommended way to get rid of them? Should I comment them all out or is there some easier way to disable them or should I just leave them as they are? Thanks. -Mike ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/howlewere%40yahoo.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/andrew.merenbach%40ucla.edu This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/pjacobs%40cosential.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/mike.mcfin %40gmail.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NSLog on releasebuild
I agree with this. I like to leave my Console open most of the time, to monitor for potential software problems. I really dislike applications that just spew endless nonsense there under even normal conditions. Chris On Jul 23, 2008, at 11:36 AM, Andrew Merenbach wrote: I'd say that the most important reason for removing the NSLog() statements *might* be the look of the program. Many users who use the Console probably wouldn't like it to become cluttered with detritus from spurious log statements. It makes tech support more difficult if they need to look at their logs for something else, and may confuse the user -- What does ... mean??? Is something wrong? Just a thought. Cheers, Andrew On Jul 23, 2008, at 8:33 AM, Phillip Jacobs wrote: Is there anything particularly wrong with NSLog statements being in a release package? Performance wise? Security wise? Just wondering the root of the question. Thanks, -Phillip On Jul 23, 2008, at 10:30 AM, Andrew Merenbach wrote: Hi! I think that you would want an @ symbol before the opening quote: NSLog(@Whatever); Cheers, Andrew On Jul 23, 2008, at 8:18 AM, Ian was here wrote: Try this #ifdef DEBUG NSLog(Whatever); #endif --- On Wed, 7/23/08, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: NSLog on releasebuild To: Cocoa-Dev List Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 7:48 AM Hello, During development and debug I typically use tons of NSLog()-messages to get info what's happening. I don't wish to include these messages to release-build so what is common/recommended way to get rid of them? Should I comment them all out or is there some easier way to disable them or should I just leave them as they are? Thanks. -Mike ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/howlewere%40yahoo.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/andrew.merenbach%40ucla.edu This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/pjacobs%40cosential.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/chb%40infoplusonline.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NSLog on releasebuild
This is the route I follow. I use normal NSLog() statements for conditions that should never happen, and DebugLog() for debugging: #ifdef DEBUG #define DebugLog(s, ...) NSLog((@%s %s:%d s), __func__, basename(__FILE__), __LINE__, ## __VA_ARGS__); #else #define DebugLog(s, ...) #endif The extra info is for context. On Jul 23, 2008, at 11:22 AM, Shawn Erickson wrote: On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 7:48 AM, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, During development and debug I typically use tons of NSLog()- messages to get info what's happening. I don't wish to include these messages to release-build so what is common/recommended way to get rid of them? Should I comment them all out or is there some easier way to disable them or should I just leave them as they are? In theory you could do something like the following (not tried this myself)... #if defined(DEBUG) // or some other trigger for debug logging #define DLog(...) NSLog( __VA_ARGS__ ) #else #define DLog(...) #endif ... then in code ... DLog(@blah); DLog(@blah %@, someObject); etc. -Shawn ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/nateweaver%40xtechllc.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NSLog on releasebuild
On Jul 23, 2008, at 6:48 PM, Mike wrote: Hello, During development and debug I typically use tons of NSLog()- messages to get info what's happening. I don't wish to include these messages to release-build so what is common/recommended way to get rid of them? Should I comment them all out or is there some easier way to disable them or should I just leave them as they are? Thanks. -Mike #ifndef DEBUG # define NSLog(...) #endif - Dmitri Or simply use Log4Cocoa. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NSLog on releasebuild
Andrew Merenbach wrote: Is there anything particularly wrong with NSLog statements being in a release package? Performance wise? Security wise? Just wondering the root of the question. I'd say that the most important reason for removing the NSLog() statements *might* be the look of the program. Many users who use the Console probably wouldn't like it to become cluttered with detritus from spurious log statements. It makes tech support more difficult if they need to look at their logs for something else, and may confuse the user -- What does ... mean??? Is something wrong? Just a thought. Heartily agree. NSLog output in a released program should be limited to reporting actual errors with whatever information is available at that time to locate and diagnose the problem. Any event that's out of the ordinary is fair game, not just errors. But (almost) any message that is essentially reporting that an operation worked as intended is noise. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NSLog on releasebuild
By carefull with the basename function. Theoricaly, it require a mutable string (char * and not const char *), so this logging function may crash (even it for now it works). Le 23 juil. 08 à 20:01, Nate Weaver a écrit : This is the route I follow. I use normal NSLog() statements for conditions that should never happen, and DebugLog() for debugging: #ifdef DEBUG #define DebugLog(s, ...) NSLog((@%s %s:%d s), __func__, basename(__FILE__), __LINE__, ## __VA_ARGS__); #else #define DebugLog(s, ...) #endif The extra info is for context. On Jul 23, 2008, at 11:22 AM, Shawn Erickson wrote: On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 7:48 AM, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, During development and debug I typically use tons of NSLog()- messages to get info what's happening. I don't wish to include these messages to release-build so what is common/recommended way to get rid of them? Should I comment them all out or is there some easier way to disable them or should I just leave them as they are? In theory you could do something like the following (not tried this myself)... #if defined(DEBUG) // or some other trigger for debug logging #define DLog(...) NSLog( __VA_ARGS__ ) #else #define DLog(...) #endif ... then in code ... DLog(@blah); DLog(@blah %@, someObject); etc. -Shawn ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/nateweaver%40xtechllc.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/devlists%40shadowlab.org This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
