Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib 2014: Save the dates!
Conference info isn't prominent on the homepage (I just had to look it up to share with somebody). Anybody have time to put the Code4Lib 2014 dates schedule there prominently? Ideally along with proposal deadlines... /me ducks -Jodi On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Tim McGeary timmcge...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I am happy to announce that we have secured the venue and dates for Code4Lib 2014! The conference will be held at the Sheraton Raleigh Hotel in downtown Raleigh, NC on March 24 - 27, 2014. Preconferences will be held Monday March 24, and the main conference on Tuesday March 25 - 27. The Sheraton Raleigh Hotel is working through a $6 million renovation that will be completed this fall. Upon your arrival, you will find warm and open lobby, great for informal meetups and relaxing. In the hotel will be Jimmy V's restaurant, where 5% of the revenues are donated to the V Foundation for Cancer Research. The hotel is always within easy walking distance to many restaurants, pubs, parks, museums, and other attractions. The Code4Lib 2014 Conference will be the only event using the meeting space this week. The meeting space offers open foyers that will be excellent for our morning and afternoon breaks, along with space for the project and vendor table sponsors looking to build collaboration with the Code4Lib community. Finally, the hotel has the capacity to host all of the attendees, and we've negotiated a rate of $159/night that includes wireless access in the hotel rooms. Hotel reservations will be able to made after you register using the information provided in your registration confirmation. We will be publishing more details as become available. Finally, we could not have reached this point without the effort of CONCENTRA Conference Management Services. The contract negotiation process took a great deal of effort and had a few unexpected turns. Having CONCENTRA steer the process was just what we needed to get a contract that is fair and appropriate for Code4Lib. We are looking forward to hosting you in North Carolina next spring! Cheers, Tim -- Tim McGeary Director of Library Information Technology University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill tim.mcge...@unc.edu timmcge...@gmail.com GTalk/Yahoo/Skype/Twitter: timmcgeary
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib 2014: Save the dates!
Salvete! But please don't expect the conference itself to select the venue and complete conference package based on the sole requirement to keep room rates down. I never suggested any such thing. I kindly suggested that someone might wish to see if the hotel would come down on its price. I stated the fact that for that market during those dates, its cost is above its competitors. One of my colleagues noted that government rates for that locality are substantially lower, too. As someone that has organised, or had a role in putting together many conferences, I well realise that room rates are not the only factor. I understand the dynamics in play in terms of meeting room space, proximity to attractions, et cetera. However, I felt that it would be a good idea to act when I perceived that we were getting a raw deal. There's enough warning here that it would allow for a change for everyone's benefit. Many times I've been able to secure a better rate for my organisation simply by bringing in data and asking for a better deal than the boilerplate. There were many ALA conferences when I did not stay in any conference hotel. And when you look at the hotel prices for the conference I'm at right now (ALA Annual in Chicago[1]) you might well have a heart attack, as they are almost all higher -- and often WAY higher -- than the Code4Lib 2014 price. This doesn't necessarily make it right, but Chicago is not Raleigh. I would expect to pay more in a major metropolis than in the Southeast University market. Further, ALA's continued to mystify me in the conference department, too. We are terrible negotiators. Cheers, Brooke
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib 2014: Save the dates!
On 7/1/13 8:00 AM, BWS Johnson wrote: Salvete! But please don't expect the conference itself to select the venue and complete conference package based on the sole requirement to keep room rates down. I never suggested any such thing. I kindly suggested that someone might wish to see if the hotel would come down on its price. I stated the fact that for that market during those dates, its cost is above its competitors. One of my colleagues noted that government rates for that locality are substantially lower, too. As someone that has organised, or had a role in putting together many conferences, I well realise that room rates are not the only factor. I understand the dynamics in play in terms of meeting room space, proximity to attractions, et cetera. However, I felt that it would be a good idea to act when I perceived that we were getting a raw deal. There's enough warning here that it would allow for a change for everyone's benefit. Many times I've been able to secure a better rate for my organisation simply by bringing in data and asking for a better deal than the boilerplate. From my own experience, I can confirm it's a waste of time to ask a hotel to come down on the rate after the contract is signed and the rate announced. All it can do is damage the relationship between the organizing group and the hotel. -- Gary McGath, Professional Software Developer http://www.garymcgath.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib 2014: Save the dates!
Also, Raleigh (and I say this both with affection and from experience) acts a bit big for its britches. The standard rates for downtown (non-crap) hotels is... not cheap. Rack rate for both the Sheraton and the Marriott is nigh 'round $300 for a single. There are inexpensive options in walking distance (e.g., Clarion), but they come with the concomitant cheap hotel caveats. On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Gary McGath develo...@mcgath.com wrote: On 7/1/13 8:00 AM, BWS Johnson wrote: Salvete! But please don't expect the conference itself to select the venue and complete conference package based on the sole requirement to keep room rates down. I never suggested any such thing. I kindly suggested that someone might wish to see if the hotel would come down on its price. I stated the fact that for that market during those dates, its cost is above its competitors. One of my colleagues noted that government rates for that locality are substantially lower, too. As someone that has organised, or had a role in putting together many conferences, I well realise that room rates are not the only factor. I understand the dynamics in play in terms of meeting room space, proximity to attractions, et cetera. However, I felt that it would be a good idea to act when I perceived that we were getting a raw deal. There's enough warning here that it would allow for a change for everyone's benefit. Many times I've been able to secure a better rate for my organisation simply by bringing in data and asking for a better deal than the boilerplate. From my own experience, I can confirm it's a waste of time to ask a hotel to come down on the rate after the contract is signed and the rate announced. All it can do is damage the relationship between the organizing group and the hotel. -- Gary McGath, Professional Software Developer http://www.garymcgath.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib 2014: Save the dates!
On Mon, Jul 01, 2013 at 05:00:42AM -0700, BWS Johnson wrote: ??? Chicago is not Raleigh. I would expect to pay more in a major metropolis than in the Southeast University market. Further, ALA's continued to mystify me in the conference department, too. We are terrible negotiators. Dunno about that. Given that we the Code4lib we do not exist as a real (as in Taxman) organization. I suspect this years planners ran into the same problems we did. This was articulated to us really well. Our request for rooms compares to. We are having a wedding in Chicago in February and we promise 400 of our family will be coming. It is hard to convince them otherwise. Now the delicious irony was after the Conference they were wondering if we would be returning to Chicago again in 2014. You can keep conference costs down in other ways by helping raise money for sponsorships. http://code4lib.org/node/487 regards, ./fxk Cheers, Brooke -- No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. -- Eleanor Roosevelt
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib 2014: Save the dates!
A few more factual follow-ups for reference: - The negotiation process was NOT easy and we explored many different venues. We are not getting a raw deal. Trust me, we had some raw deals offered. This contract has a lot of things that help us keep our collective costs down and protect the conference. - The Hilton in Raleigh is not competitor geographically to the downtown hotels, which have their own conference spaces but also serve the Raleigh Convention Center across the street from both. - I am checking with CONCENTRA and the Sheraton about whether those booking with government rates can count toward our block. The Sheraton conference manager is on vacation this week so it will be at least a week before I have an answer. However, I do expect we have more government rate eligible attendees than hotels typically allocate for in any given situation. As Francis said, it is hard to convince hotels to trust a non-organization like Code4Lib. But that's why we hired CONCENTRA for this year. They do this all year long, for conferences big and small, and they know how to negotiate (as I saw and heard firsthand the past couple months). And they'll be continuing to work with us through the end of the conference and all the bill paying that happens after the conference. We are in good hands, but as Roy said, please join the planning committee. There is plenty of room! Tim On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 9:46 AM, Francis Kayiwa kay...@uic.edu wrote: On Mon, Jul 01, 2013 at 05:00:42AM -0700, BWS Johnson wrote: ??? Chicago is not Raleigh. I would expect to pay more in a major metropolis than in the Southeast University market. Further, ALA's continued to mystify me in the conference department, too. We are terrible negotiators. Dunno about that. Given that we the Code4lib we do not exist as a real (as in Taxman) organization. I suspect this years planners ran into the same problems we did. This was articulated to us really well. Our request for rooms compares to. We are having a wedding in Chicago in February and we promise 400 of our family will be coming. It is hard to convince them otherwise. Now the delicious irony was after the Conference they were wondering if we would be returning to Chicago again in 2014. You can keep conference costs down in other ways by helping raise money for sponsorships. http://code4lib.org/node/487 regards, ./fxk Cheers, Brooke -- No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. -- Eleanor Roosevelt -- Tim McGeary timmcge...@gmail.com GTalk/Yahoo/Skype/Twitter: timmcgeary 484-294-7660 (cell)
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib 2014: Save the dates!
Early signs point to attendees who register under government rates being able to count toward our room block. We'll have for sure info on that at time of registration. But it sounds like y'all can go for the government rate if it's available to you; this hotel does have an amazing government rate. And yes, this price is a significant reduction over the standard nightly rate for this hotel. And it does include wireless, which otherwise would be $10/day, I believe. As has been pointed out already, this location is primo downtown location, which we chose for its walkability to restaurants and pubs. The Hilton on the north side of town is not walkable to similar food / entertainment, nor is there public transportation to make up the difference, which impacts the room cost. There are indeed cheaper hotels in the area, and we do assume that some folks will book those cheaper hotels, as always happens. We encourage those who can pay this reasonable rate to do so as we need to meet a certain minimum requirement toward rooms as part of our agreement, otherwise we begin to be charged extra for our meeting space. We can always approach the hotel about the pricing, but the contract has been signed so we really don't have any additional leverage at this point. On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Tim McGeary timmcge...@gmail.com wrote: A few more factual follow-ups for reference: - The negotiation process was NOT easy and we explored many different venues. We are not getting a raw deal. Trust me, we had some raw deals offered. This contract has a lot of things that help us keep our collective costs down and protect the conference. - The Hilton in Raleigh is not competitor geographically to the downtown hotels, which have their own conference spaces but also serve the Raleigh Convention Center across the street from both. - I am checking with CONCENTRA and the Sheraton about whether those booking with government rates can count toward our block. The Sheraton conference manager is on vacation this week so it will be at least a week before I have an answer. However, I do expect we have more government rate eligible attendees than hotels typically allocate for in any given situation. As Francis said, it is hard to convince hotels to trust a non-organization like Code4Lib. But that's why we hired CONCENTRA for this year. They do this all year long, for conferences big and small, and they know how to negotiate (as I saw and heard firsthand the past couple months). And they'll be continuing to work with us through the end of the conference and all the bill paying that happens after the conference. We are in good hands, but as Roy said, please join the planning committee. There is plenty of room! Tim On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 9:46 AM, Francis Kayiwa kay...@uic.edu wrote: On Mon, Jul 01, 2013 at 05:00:42AM -0700, BWS Johnson wrote: ??? Chicago is not Raleigh. I would expect to pay more in a major metropolis than in the Southeast University market. Further, ALA's continued to mystify me in the conference department, too. We are terrible negotiators. Dunno about that. Given that we the Code4lib we do not exist as a real (as in Taxman) organization. I suspect this years planners ran into the same problems we did. This was articulated to us really well. Our request for rooms compares to. We are having a wedding in Chicago in February and we promise 400 of our family will be coming. It is hard to convince them otherwise. Now the delicious irony was after the Conference they were wondering if we would be returning to Chicago again in 2014. You can keep conference costs down in other ways by helping raise money for sponsorships. http://code4lib.org/node/487 regards, ./fxk Cheers, Brooke -- No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. -- Eleanor Roosevelt -- Tim McGeary timmcge...@gmail.com GTalk/Yahoo/Skype/Twitter: timmcgeary 484-294-7660 (cell)
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib 2014: Save the dates!
All three of Cary's reasons are absolutely correct, but #3 is the most accurate. There are a number of negotiated benefits for having conference attendees stay at the venue hotel. Just off the top of my head there are two examples where we are talking at least $75 per person. We careful choose the location of the hotel. It is within walking distance of many of the places attendees will want to go to in the evenings. Other hotels in the city may be less expensive, but are not necessarily within walking distance and do not have the capacity to fit us all. Keep in mind, Code4Lib 2013 had over 380 attendees, and we are expecting to host a similar number. Please know that one of our main goals is to keep the total cost as low as possible while hosting the highest quality conference. Don't hesitate to ask more questions. Cheers, Tim Sent from my iPhone Tim McGeary Director of Library Informational Technology University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill On Jun 29, 2013, at 9:08 AM, Cary Gordon listu...@chillco.com wrote: There are three reasons to stay at the conference hotel, even though it might not be the cheapest option: 1) You can roll out of bed and into the session; 2) More opportunities for out of band discussions; and 3) There is very likely a hotel commit involved, meaning that the organizers have committed to a certain number of rooms per night in order to get free or discounted meeting rooms, hospitality rooms and other services. Performance on room commits can be used as a bargaining chip for future Code4LibCons. Everyone knows that budget is always a big consideration, and not everyone can or will stay at the conference hotel. Cary On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 6:16 AM, BWS Johnson abesottedphoe...@yahoo.comwrote: Salvete! I am happy to announce that we have secured the venue and dates for Code4Lib 2014! The conference will be held at the Sheraton Raleigh Hotel in downtown Raleigh, NC on March 24 - 27, 2014. Preconferences will be held Monday March 24, and the main conference on Tuesday March 25 - 27. Hooray, that's sort of close. Maybe I'll be able to pit fight my own place next year. Finally, the hotel has the capacity to host all of the attendees, and we've negotiated a rate of $159/night that includes wireless access in the hotel rooms. Hotel reservations will be able to made after you register using the information provided in your registration confirmation. We will be publishing more details as become available. Ruh oh. This was rather shocking. Perhaps you might wish to show them a hotels.com search, which puts your $159 just over the Hilton and about double other places in the vicinity. I'm sure it's nice and all that, but uh, perhaps they would be willing to come down seeing as how we're sending a boatload of traffic their way. Cheers, Brooke -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib 2014: Save the dates!
I have a lot of sympathy for those who can't afford conference hotel prices, I do. As the father of twins who had to be professionally engaged with $500/year to work with, I can tell you that I hear you. But please don't expect the conference itself to select the venue and complete conference package based on the sole requirement to keep room rates down. There were many ALA conferences when I did not stay in any conference hotel. And when you look at the hotel prices for the conference I'm at right now (ALA Annual in Chicago[1]) you might well have a heart attack, as they are almost all higher -- and often WAY higher -- than the Code4Lib 2014 price. This doesn't necessarily make it right, but it might put it into perspective, as this conference is attended by quite a few librarians who cannot afford these prices either. I guess what I'm suggesting is that the conference organizers have to make the best deal they can, and allow individual attendees to figure out what their best option might be. And even in so doing, they run the risk of not making the numbers of conference hotel bookings and then be on the hook for the consequences. In other words, let's give the conference organizers (your professional colleagues and mine) the benefit of a doubt. They (seriously) want to put on the best and least expensive conference they can. And we can all help them do that by doing things like gathering sponsorships to keep other expenses down. Your (or anyone else's) participation in this would be more than welcome. Thanks, Roy [1] http://ala13.ala.org/hotels On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Tim McGeary timmcge...@gmail.com wrote: All three of Cary's reasons are absolutely correct, but #3 is the most accurate. There are a number of negotiated benefits for having conference attendees stay at the venue hotel. Just off the top of my head there are two examples where we are talking at least $75 per person. We careful choose the location of the hotel. It is within walking distance of many of the places attendees will want to go to in the evenings. Other hotels in the city may be less expensive, but are not necessarily within walking distance and do not have the capacity to fit us all. Keep in mind, Code4Lib 2013 had over 380 attendees, and we are expecting to host a similar number. Please know that one of our main goals is to keep the total cost as low as possible while hosting the highest quality conference. Don't hesitate to ask more questions. Cheers, Tim Sent from my iPhone Tim McGeary Director of Library Informational Technology University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill On Jun 29, 2013, at 9:08 AM, Cary Gordon listu...@chillco.com wrote: There are three reasons to stay at the conference hotel, even though it might not be the cheapest option: 1) You can roll out of bed and into the session; 2) More opportunities for out of band discussions; and 3) There is very likely a hotel commit involved, meaning that the organizers have committed to a certain number of rooms per night in order to get free or discounted meeting rooms, hospitality rooms and other services. Performance on room commits can be used as a bargaining chip for future Code4LibCons. Everyone knows that budget is always a big consideration, and not everyone can or will stay at the conference hotel. Cary On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 6:16 AM, BWS Johnson abesottedphoe...@yahoo.comwrote: Salvete! I am happy to announce that we have secured the venue and dates for Code4Lib 2014! The conference will be held at the Sheraton Raleigh Hotel in downtown Raleigh, NC on March 24 - 27, 2014. Preconferences will be held Monday March 24, and the main conference on Tuesday March 25 - 27. Hooray, that's sort of close. Maybe I'll be able to pit fight my own place next year. Finally, the hotel has the capacity to host all of the attendees, and we've negotiated a rate of $159/night that includes wireless access in the hotel rooms. Hotel reservations will be able to made after you register using the information provided in your registration confirmation. We will be publishing more details as become available. Ruh oh. This was rather shocking. Perhaps you might wish to show them a hotels.com search, which puts your $159 just over the Hilton and about double other places in the vicinity. I'm sure it's nice and all that, but uh, perhaps they would be willing to come down seeing as how we're sending a boatload of traffic their way. Cheers, Brooke -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib 2014: Save the dates!
Salvete! I am happy to announce that we have secured the venue and dates for Code4Lib 2014! The conference will be held at the Sheraton Raleigh Hotel in downtown Raleigh, NC on March 24 - 27, 2014. Preconferences will be held Monday March 24, and the main conference on Tuesday March 25 - 27. Hooray, that's sort of close. Maybe I'll be able to pit fight my own place next year. Finally, the hotel has the capacity to host all of the attendees, and we've negotiated a rate of $159/night that includes wireless access in the hotel rooms. Hotel reservations will be able to made after you register using the information provided in your registration confirmation. We will be publishing more details as become available. Ruh oh. This was rather shocking. Perhaps you might wish to show them a hotels.com search, which puts your $159 just over the Hilton and about double other places in the vicinity. I'm sure it's nice and all that, but uh, perhaps they would be willing to come down seeing as how we're sending a boatload of traffic their way. Cheers, Brooke
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib 2014: Save the dates!
There are three reasons to stay at the conference hotel, even though it might not be the cheapest option: 1) You can roll out of bed and into the session; 2) More opportunities for out of band discussions; and 3) There is very likely a hotel commit involved, meaning that the organizers have committed to a certain number of rooms per night in order to get free or discounted meeting rooms, hospitality rooms and other services. Performance on room commits can be used as a bargaining chip for future Code4LibCons. Everyone knows that budget is always a big consideration, and not everyone can or will stay at the conference hotel. Cary On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 6:16 AM, BWS Johnson abesottedphoe...@yahoo.comwrote: Salvete! I am happy to announce that we have secured the venue and dates for Code4Lib 2014! The conference will be held at the Sheraton Raleigh Hotel in downtown Raleigh, NC on March 24 - 27, 2014. Preconferences will be held Monday March 24, and the main conference on Tuesday March 25 - 27. Hooray, that's sort of close. Maybe I'll be able to pit fight my own place next year. Finally, the hotel has the capacity to host all of the attendees, and we've negotiated a rate of $159/night that includes wireless access in the hotel rooms. Hotel reservations will be able to made after you register using the information provided in your registration confirmation. We will be publishing more details as become available. Ruh oh. This was rather shocking. Perhaps you might wish to show them a hotels.com search, which puts your $159 just over the Hilton and about double other places in the vicinity. I'm sure it's nice and all that, but uh, perhaps they would be willing to come down seeing as how we're sending a boatload of traffic their way. Cheers, Brooke -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib 2014: Save the dates!
On Jun 29, 2013, at 7:16 AM, BWS Johnson wrote: Salvete! I am happy to announce that we have secured the venue and dates for Code4Lib 2014! The conference will be held at the Sheraton Raleigh Hotel in downtown Raleigh, NC on March 24 - 27, 2014. Preconferences will be held Monday March 24, and the main conference on Tuesday March 25 - 27. Hooray, that's sort of close. Maybe I'll be able to pit fight my own place next year. Finally, the hotel has the capacity to host all of the attendees, and we've negotiated a rate of $159/night that includes wireless access in the hotel rooms. Hotel reservations will be able to made after you register using the information provided in your registration confirmation. We will be publishing more details as become available. Ruh oh. This was rather shocking. Perhaps you might wish to show them a hotels.com search, which puts your $159 just over the Hilton and about double other places in the vicinity. I'm sure it's nice and all that, but uh, perhaps they would be willing to come down seeing as how we're sending a boatload of traffic their way. Government per-diem rates for Raleigh is $91 per night : http://www.gsa.gov/portal/category/100120 I have no idea if that can be used for negotiations at all. For some reason, they're not showing any federal government rates when I searched, but they're offering state government employees rooms at $64/night. (you might have to pay extra for the wifi, though) I highly suggest that people who work for public universities or libraries inquire about getting that rate. -Joe (even though the state of maryland makes me pay into the state retirement system because I'm a municipal elected official, they won't issue me a state ID card, so I can't get the state rates when traveling, which are typically better than the federal rates ... I've actually debated about if it makes sense to work for 3 years in a real state job, then claim a pension based on my 'top 3 years' of pay times the number of years worked)
[CODE4LIB] Code4Lib 2014: Save the dates!
Hi all, I am happy to announce that we have secured the venue and dates for Code4Lib 2014! The conference will be held at the Sheraton Raleigh Hotel in downtown Raleigh, NC on March 24 - 27, 2014. Preconferences will be held Monday March 24, and the main conference on Tuesday March 25 - 27. The Sheraton Raleigh Hotel is working through a $6 million renovation that will be completed this fall. Upon your arrival, you will find warm and open lobby, great for informal meetups and relaxing. In the hotel will be Jimmy V's restaurant, where 5% of the revenues are donated to the V Foundation for Cancer Research. The hotel is always within easy walking distance to many restaurants, pubs, parks, museums, and other attractions. The Code4Lib 2014 Conference will be the only event using the meeting space this week. The meeting space offers open foyers that will be excellent for our morning and afternoon breaks, along with space for the project and vendor table sponsors looking to build collaboration with the Code4Lib community. Finally, the hotel has the capacity to host all of the attendees, and we've negotiated a rate of $159/night that includes wireless access in the hotel rooms. Hotel reservations will be able to made after you register using the information provided in your registration confirmation. We will be publishing more details as become available. Finally, we could not have reached this point without the effort of CONCENTRA Conference Management Services. The contract negotiation process took a great deal of effort and had a few unexpected turns. Having CONCENTRA steer the process was just what we needed to get a contract that is fair and appropriate for Code4Lib. We are looking forward to hosting you in North Carolina next spring! Cheers, Tim -- Tim McGeary Director of Library Information Technology University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill tim.mcge...@unc.edu timmcge...@gmail.com GTalk/Yahoo/Skype/Twitter: timmcgeary
