Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
At 08:34 PM 10/01/2008, Naomi wrote: . . . 1. The user is not broken. Our faculty are very vocal in desiring a "virtual shelf list" that will allow them to, given a specific item, look for "closely located" items. Call numbers have facilitated co- location of (some) related physical materials, which facilitates a browsing experience that users enjoy. Maybe it's nostalgia, maybe it's something else ... but they enjoy it and find it useful. They are used to call numbers, and by god, they want call numbers. Some do indeed. I recently decided to stop producing the "by call number" version of our recent acquisitions list and immediately heard from three different faculty about how that's the only version they care about because they can go immediately to "their" call number(s) to see what's new. Who woulda thunk it? Bob Duncan ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~ Robert E. Duncan Systems Librarian Editor of IT Communications Lafayette College Easton, PA 18042 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://library.lafayette.edu/
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 23:39:46 -0500, "Nate Vack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 7:34 PM, Naomi Dushay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > 1. The user is not broken. Our faculty are very vocal in desiring a > > "virtual shelf list" that will allow them to, given a specific item, look > > for "closely located" items. Call numbers have facilitated co-location of > > (some) related physical materials, which facilitates a browsing experience > > that users enjoy. Maybe it's nostalgia, maybe it's something else ... but > > they enjoy it and find it useful. They are used to call numbers, and by god, > > they want call numbers. Who are we to naysay? > > I don't mean to naysay -- I just suspect that what what people think > of when shelf browsing -- namely, the big set of books arranged in LC > order -- may not be the part of the experience that makes shelf > browsing so special. One of the more interesting anecdotes from the Evergreen front lines I heard of late has to do with shelf browsing. A librarian remarked that though she personally never used it, she observed a patron enthusiastically show another patron how to shelf-browse in the PINES catalog. I don't use Evergreen's shelf-browse much myself, because I typically hit a catalog with a list of known items and stick with that. But I do have a weakness for craft and project books, with their colorful jackets and tempting titles (not that I ever *do* any of these crafts or projects), and I like to shelf-browse in the PINES catalog for these. I definitely see how patrons would like this. So I'm with Genny. For a number of reasons, including analyses done in previous jobs, I agree that people want browse. But of course, they want GOOD browse -- easy, functional, attractive, and available. -- -- | Karen G. Schneider | Community Librarian | Equinox Software Inc. "The Evergreen Experts" | Toll-free: 1.877.Open.ILS (1.877.673.6457) x712 | E-Mail/AIM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Web: http://www.esilibrary.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 7:34 PM, Naomi Dushay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 1. The user is not broken. Our faculty are very vocal in desiring a > "virtual shelf list" that will allow them to, given a specific item, look > for "closely located" items. Call numbers have facilitated co-location of > (some) related physical materials, which facilitates a browsing experience > that users enjoy. Maybe it's nostalgia, maybe it's something else ... but > they enjoy it and find it useful. They are used to call numbers, and by god, > they want call numbers. Who are we to naysay? I don't mean to naysay -- I just suspect that what what people think of when shelf browsing -- namely, the big set of books arranged in LC order -- may not be the part of the experience that makes shelf browsing so special. I like browsing stacks; there's some kind of Special Sauce in that process I've never experienced online, though I've seen a few stack-browse-like interfaces. Google Books comes closest even though it's not a stack browser, which suggests to me that perhaps that magical stack browse flavor is actually a smack of content. However! This can perhaps be tested in a rather straightforward way without solving the Somewhat Hard Problem of efficiently ordering millions of bib records and creating an interface to navigate The Whole World Of Materials. I imagine one cold start small -- the experience should certainly scale *down*. You could sorting a small(!) set of books (100? 1,000?) and do some targeted testing of searching for books on a topic contained within. Then you could test the experience of online stack browsing with users -- without needing to build a big scalable database and answer big questions about different call number schemas and media types and clean up lots of borked catalog records. $0.02 from someone who's not building one ;-) Cheers, -Nate
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
Actually, I don't think this is ideal for a lot of people who prefer browsing to searching. The whole premise that you have to come up with a query in the first place is the showstopper for some folks. There are browsers and there are searchers. If your system starts with a search box, the browse-oriented will put in a highly generic term like History. Faceted search can help them from there, as could LCSH lists for that matter. But if these same browse-oriented users constantly go to the library and head straight for QA76.9 H85, well then, that's the closest they really have to a "search" term. Shelf browsing interfaces, as well as browseable image libraries organized by collection, make sense to me for this reason. I would always like to see a search box available for the search-oriented, but to me, one of the failings of the OPAC today is the absence of support for the browse-oriented. Genny Engel Sonoma County Library [EMAIL PROTECTED] 707 545-0831 x581 www.sonomalibrary.org >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/01/08 05:21AM >>> Ideally, the user should be able to run a query, retrieve a set of items, sort them however he wants (by author, date, call number, some kind of dynamic clustering algorithm, whatever), and be able to methodically browse from one end of that sort order to the other without any fear of missing something. Keith On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Stephens, Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think we need to understand the > way people use browse to navigate resources if we are to successfully bring > the concept of collection browsing to our navigation tools. David suggests > that we should think of a shelf browse as a type of 'show me more like this' > which is definitely one reason to browse - but is it the only reason?
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
08, at 9:16 AM, Stephens, Owen wrote: I agree with this in general - and this was my point about the 'Coverflow' in iTunes, that it allows a variety of sorting methods - although it is still limited. I think there are perhaps some other factors as well. Shelf-browsing allows users to wander into 'their' part of the library and look at stuff - but I don't think most OPACs have the equivalent. With a bookstore (physically and virtually) we might see genre sections we can browse. This might also work for public libraries? In research libraries we tend to just present the classification without further glossing I think - perhaps this is something we ought to consider online? The other thing that occurs to me about browsing by class mark is that it presents a 'spectrum' view of a kind. This could be easily lost in the type of 'search and sort' system you suggest (although I still think this is a good idea btw). At the same time I'm a bit reluctant to stop at providing a classification browse, as it seems inherently limited. I agree with the point about browsing the shelves and exploring the material in more depth are related - which suggests integration with other content-rich services are needed (Google Books, e-books, other providers) Owen Stephens Assistant Director: eStrategy and Information Resources Central Library Imperial College London South Kensington Campus London SW7 2AZ t: +44 (0)20 7594 8829 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message----- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Jenkins Sent: 01 October 2008 13:22 To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse I think that one advantage of browsing a physical shelf is that the shelf is linear, so it's very easy to methodically browse from the left end of the shelf to the right, and have a sense that you haven't accidentally missed anything. (Ignore, for the moment, all the books that happen to be checked out and not on the shelf...) Online, linearity is no longer a constraint, which is a very good thing, but it does have some drawbacks as well. There is usually no clear way to follow a series of "more like this" links and get a sense that you have seen all the books that the library has on a given subject. Yes, you might get lucky and discover some great things, but it usually involves a lot of aimless wandering, coming back to the same highly-related items again and again, while missing some slightly-more-distantly-related items. Ideally, the user should be able to run a query, retrieve a set of items, sort them however he wants (by author, date, call number, some kind of dynamic clustering algorithm, whatever), and be able to methodically browse from one end of that sort order to the other without any fear of missing something. Keith On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Stephens, Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I think we need to understand the way people use browse to navigate resources if we are to successfully bring the concept of collection browsing to our navigation tools. David suggests that we should think of a shelf browse as a type of 'show me more like this' which is definitely one reason to browse - but is it the only reason? Naomi Dushay [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
I agree with this in general - and this was my point about the 'Coverflow' in iTunes, that it allows a variety of sorting methods - although it is still limited. I think there are perhaps some other factors as well. Shelf-browsing allows users to wander into 'their' part of the library and look at stuff - but I don't think most OPACs have the equivalent. With a bookstore (physically and virtually) we might see genre sections we can browse. This might also work for public libraries? In research libraries we tend to just present the classification without further glossing I think - perhaps this is something we ought to consider online? The other thing that occurs to me about browsing by class mark is that it presents a 'spectrum' view of a kind. This could be easily lost in the type of 'search and sort' system you suggest (although I still think this is a good idea btw). At the same time I'm a bit reluctant to stop at providing a classification browse, as it seems inherently limited. I agree with the point about browsing the shelves and exploring the material in more depth are related - which suggests integration with other content-rich services are needed (Google Books, e-books, other providers) Owen Stephens Assistant Director: eStrategy and Information Resources Central Library Imperial College London South Kensington Campus London SW7 2AZ t: +44 (0)20 7594 8829 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -Original Message- > From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Keith Jenkins > Sent: 01 October 2008 13:22 > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse > > I think that one advantage of browsing a physical shelf is that the > shelf is linear, so it's very easy to methodically browse from the > left end of the shelf to the right, and have a sense that you haven't > accidentally missed anything. (Ignore, for the moment, all the books > that happen to be checked out and not on the shelf...) > > Online, linearity is no longer a constraint, which is a very good > thing, but it does have some drawbacks as well. There is usually no > clear way to follow a series of "more like this" links and get a sense > that you have seen all the books that the library has on a given > subject. Yes, you might get lucky and discover some great things, but > it usually involves a lot of aimless wandering, coming back to the > same highly-related items again and again, while missing some > slightly-more-distantly-related items. > > Ideally, the user should be able to run a query, retrieve a set of > items, sort them however he wants (by author, date, call number, some > kind of dynamic clustering algorithm, whatever), and be able to > methodically browse from one end of that sort order to the other > without any fear of missing something. > > Keith > > > On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Stephens, Owen > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think we need to understand the > > way people use browse to navigate resources if we are to successfully > bring > > the concept of collection browsing to our navigation tools. David > suggests > > that we should think of a shelf browse as a type of 'show me more > like this' > > which is definitely one reason to browse - but is it the only reason?
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
Nate Vack wrote: ... Stack browsing may make people happy, but I'm far from convinced that providing a linear browse in shelf order will provide the same satisfaction. Cheers, -Nate No, I'm pretty sure it won't, as currently designed. But a linear, shelf-order browse /online/ with covers, and with quick, one-click access to jacket blurbs, Amazon or Google peeks inside, reviews, etc., I think might make people even happier. Larry
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 7:21 AM, Keith Jenkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think that one advantage of browsing a physical shelf is that the > shelf is linear, so it's very easy to methodically browse from the > left end of the shelf to the right, and have a sense that you haven't > accidentally missed anything. (Ignore, for the moment, all the books > that happen to be checked out and not on the shelf...) Also ignore the fact that in a lot of cases, the subject authority's decision of what a book is about may not correspond to what I think a book is about. This is especially true in the case where I'm doing research on a topic that's not the primary subject of many books, but is covered in books about other things. I'd hypothesize that maybe stack browsing is satisfying largely because it gives you the opportunity to look into each work, see its format and level of depth and treatment of your topic of interest. You get a whole lot of information (information that isn't contained in the catalog records) really fast. Stack browsing may make people happy, but I'm far from convinced that providing a linear browse in shelf order will provide the same satisfaction. Cheers, -Nate
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
this was also a big part of why i think a virtual stack browse has something to offer. our campus has over 40 libraries ranging from the largest library in the state to departmental reading rooms w/ items in our catalog. a virtual stack browse has the benefit of leveraging the benefits of call number enabled serendipitous discovery across multiple physical locations even if they are all books. -steve Bigwood, David wrote: In very few libraries are all items on the same shelf. An on-line environment has the advantage of seeing everything in one call number run. It can be much more complete. Oversized Videos Microfiche Latest Arrivals Youth Juvenile Maps Special Collections Etc Sincerely, David Bigwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://catalogablog.blogspot.com Twitter LPI_Library -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Jenkins Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:22 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse I think that one advantage of browsing a physical shelf is that the shelf is linear, so it's very easy to methodically browse from the left end of the shelf to the right, and have a sense that you haven't accidentally missed anything. (Ignore, for the moment, all the books that happen to be checked out and not on the shelf...) Keith -- Stephen Meyer Library Application Developer UW-Madison Libraries 312F Memorial Library 728 State St. Madison, WI 53706 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 608-265-2844 (ph) "Just don't let the human factor fail to be a factor at all." - Andrew Bird, "Tables and Chairs"
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
In very few libraries are all items on the same shelf. An on-line environment has the advantage of seeing everything in one call number run. It can be much more complete. Oversized Videos Microfiche Latest Arrivals Youth Juvenile Maps Special Collections Etc Sincerely, David Bigwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://catalogablog.blogspot.com Twitter LPI_Library -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Jenkins Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:22 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse I think that one advantage of browsing a physical shelf is that the shelf is linear, so it's very easy to methodically browse from the left end of the shelf to the right, and have a sense that you haven't accidentally missed anything. (Ignore, for the moment, all the books that happen to be checked out and not on the shelf...) Keith
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
I think that one advantage of browsing a physical shelf is that the shelf is linear, so it's very easy to methodically browse from the left end of the shelf to the right, and have a sense that you haven't accidentally missed anything. (Ignore, for the moment, all the books that happen to be checked out and not on the shelf...) Online, linearity is no longer a constraint, which is a very good thing, but it does have some drawbacks as well. There is usually no clear way to follow a series of "more like this" links and get a sense that you have seen all the books that the library has on a given subject. Yes, you might get lucky and discover some great things, but it usually involves a lot of aimless wandering, coming back to the same highly-related items again and again, while missing some slightly-more-distantly-related items. Ideally, the user should be able to run a query, retrieve a set of items, sort them however he wants (by author, date, call number, some kind of dynamic clustering algorithm, whatever), and be able to methodically browse from one end of that sort order to the other without any fear of missing something. Keith On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Stephens, Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think we need to understand the > way people use browse to navigate resources if we are to successfully bring > the concept of collection browsing to our navigation tools. David suggests > that we should think of a shelf browse as a type of 'show me more like this' > which is definitely one reason to browse - but is it the only reason?
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
I think that is what was being asked for, but I suppose I'm trying to get to what the underlying driver is - and assuming that users wikld like it wondering if there are reasons beyond familiarity. If the classification does capture some unique aspect of 'likeness' that's fine I suppose - although I wonder why? But isn't classification just another possible facet to browse? I suppose I'm just thinking out loud, but I think we need to understand the way people use browse to navigate resources if we are to successfully bring the concept of collection browsing to our navigation tools. David suggests that we should think of a shelf browse as a type of 'show me more like this' which is definitely one reason to browse - but is it the only reason? Owen On 30 Sep 2008, at 21:52, "Tim Shearer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Owen, Unless I'm misunderstanding, what's being asked for is a visualization tool for the *classification*. Faceted browsing by subject is dandy, but is not at all the same thing (though arguments can be made that the lines are blurring). Books that sit next to each other in a classification (DC or LC, or whatever) may not share a majority of subject terms. That collocation via classification is yet another (and occasionally more useful) way of saying that this item is like that item. One that is not necessarily trapped in any other way than call number. -t On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, Stephens, Owen wrote: I'd second Steve's comments - replicating an inherently limited physical browse system seems an odd thing to do in the virtual world. I would have thought that the 'faceted browse' function we are now seeing appearing in library systems (of course, the Endeca implementation is a leader here) is potentially the virtual equivalent of 'browsing the shelves', but hopefully without the limitations that the physical environment brings? Is it the UI rather than the functionality that is lacking here? Perhaps we need to look more carefully at the 'browsing' experience. Thinking about examples outside the library world, I personally like the 'coverflow' browse in iTunes, but I'm able to sort tracks by several criteria and still see a coverflow view. I have to admit that in general I prefer the 'album' order when using coverflow, because otherwise it doesn't make sense (to me that is). It would be interesting to look at what an 'artistflow' might look like, or a 'genreflow'. However, as far as I know I can't actually replicate the experience that I would have with my (now in boxes somewhere) physical CD collection - why was divided by genre, then sorted by artist surname (ok, I admit it, I'm a librarian through and through) Perhaps a better understanding of the 'browse' experience is needed? Some questions - when we browse: When and why do people browse rather than search? How do people make decisions about useful items as they browse? Browsing stacks suggests that items have been 'ordered' - is there something about this that appeals? Does it convey 'authority' in some way that the 'any order you want' doesn't? Owen Owen Stephens Assistant Director: eStrategy and Information Resources Central Library Imperial College London South Kensington Campus London SW7 2AZ t: +44 (0)20 7594 8829 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Meyer Sent: 29 September 2008 21:45 To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse one counter argument that i would make to this is that we consistently hear from faculty that they absolutely adore browsing the stacks--there is something that they have learned to love about the experience regardless of whether they understand that it is made possible by the work of catalogers assigning call numbers and then using them for ordering the stacks. at uw-madison we have a faculty lecture series where we invite professors to talk about their use of library materials and their research and one historian said outright, the one thing that is missing in the online environment is the experience of browsing the stacks. he seemed to understand that with all the mass digitization efforts, we could be on the edge of accomplishing it. that said, i agree that we should do what you say also, just that we should not throw the baby out w/ the bath water. if faculty somehow understand that browsing the stacks is a good experience then we can use it as a metaphor in the online environment. in an unofficial project i have experimented w/ primitive interface tests using both subject heading 'more like this' and a link to a stack browse based on a call number sort: http://j2ee-d
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
Owen, Unless I'm misunderstanding, what's being asked for is a visualization tool for the *classification*. Faceted browsing by subject is dandy, but is not at all the same thing (though arguments can be made that the lines are blurring). Books that sit next to each other in a classification (DC or LC, or whatever) may not share a majority of subject terms. That collocation via classification is yet another (and occasionally more useful) way of saying that this item is like that item. One that is not necessarily trapped in any other way than call number. -t On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, Stephens, Owen wrote: I'd second Steve's comments - replicating an inherently limited physical browse system seems an odd thing to do in the virtual world. I would have thought that the 'faceted browse' function we are now seeing appearing in library systems (of course, the Endeca implementation is a leader here) is potentially the virtual equivalent of 'browsing the shelves', but hopefully without the limitations that the physical environment brings? Is it the UI rather than the functionality that is lacking here? Perhaps we need to look more carefully at the 'browsing' experience. Thinking about examples outside the library world, I personally like the 'coverflow' browse in iTunes, but I'm able to sort tracks by several criteria and still see a coverflow view. I have to admit that in general I prefer the 'album' order when using coverflow, because otherwise it doesn't make sense (to me that is). It would be interesting to look at what an 'artistflow' might look like, or a 'genreflow'. However, as far as I know I can't actually replicate the experience that I would have with my (now in boxes somewhere) physical CD collection - why was divided by genre, then sorted by artist surname (ok, I admit it, I'm a librarian through and through) Perhaps a better understanding of the 'browse' experience is needed? Some questions - when we browse: When and why do people browse rather than search? How do people make decisions about useful items as they browse? Browsing stacks suggests that items have been 'ordered' - is there something about this that appeals? Does it convey 'authority' in some way that the 'any order you want' doesn't? Owen Owen Stephens Assistant Director: eStrategy and Information Resources Central Library Imperial College London South Kensington Campus London SW7 2AZ t: +44 (0)20 7594 8829 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message----- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Meyer Sent: 29 September 2008 21:45 To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse one counter argument that i would make to this is that we consistently hear from faculty that they absolutely adore browsing the stacks--there is something that they have learned to love about the experience regardless of whether they understand that it is made possible by the work of catalogers assigning call numbers and then using them for ordering the stacks. at uw-madison we have a faculty lecture series where we invite professors to talk about their use of library materials and their research and one historian said outright, the one thing that is missing in the online environment is the experience of browsing the stacks. he seemed to understand that with all the mass digitization efforts, we could be on the edge of accomplishing it. that said, i agree that we should do what you say also, just that we should not throw the baby out w/ the bath water. if faculty somehow understand that browsing the stacks is a good experience then we can use it as a metaphor in the online environment. in an unofficial project i have experimented w/ primitive interface tests using both subject heading 'more like this' and a link to a stack browse based on a call number sort: http://j2ee-dev.library.wisc.edu/sanecat/item.html?resourceId=951506 (please, ignore the sloppy import problems, i just didn't care that much for the interface test) as for the original question, this has about a million records and 900,000 w/ item numbers and a simple btree index in the database sorts at an acceptable speed for a development test. -sm Walker, David wrote: a decent UI is probably going to be a bigger job I've always felt that the call number browse was a really useful option, but the most disastrously implemented feature in most ILS catalog interfaces. I think the problem is that we're focusing on the task -- browsing the shelf -- as opposed to the *goal*, which is, I think, simply to show users books that are related to the one they are looking at. If you treat it like that (here are books that are related to this book) and dispense with the notion of call numbers and shelves in the interface (even if what
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
I'd second Steve's comments - replicating an inherently limited physical browse system seems an odd thing to do in the virtual world. I would have thought that the 'faceted browse' function we are now seeing appearing in library systems (of course, the Endeca implementation is a leader here) is potentially the virtual equivalent of 'browsing the shelves', but hopefully without the limitations that the physical environment brings? Is it the UI rather than the functionality that is lacking here? Perhaps we need to look more carefully at the 'browsing' experience. Thinking about examples outside the library world, I personally like the 'coverflow' browse in iTunes, but I'm able to sort tracks by several criteria and still see a coverflow view. I have to admit that in general I prefer the 'album' order when using coverflow, because otherwise it doesn't make sense (to me that is). It would be interesting to look at what an 'artistflow' might look like, or a 'genreflow'. However, as far as I know I can't actually replicate the experience that I would have with my (now in boxes somewhere) physical CD collection - why was divided by genre, then sorted by artist surname (ok, I admit it, I'm a librarian through and through) Perhaps a better understanding of the 'browse' experience is needed? Some questions - when we browse: When and why do people browse rather than search? How do people make decisions about useful items as they browse? Browsing stacks suggests that items have been 'ordered' - is there something about this that appeals? Does it convey 'authority' in some way that the 'any order you want' doesn't? Owen Owen Stephens Assistant Director: eStrategy and Information Resources Central Library Imperial College London South Kensington Campus London SW7 2AZ t: +44 (0)20 7594 8829 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -Original Message- > From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Steve Meyer > Sent: 29 September 2008 21:45 > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse > > one counter argument that i would make to this is that we consistently > hear from faculty that they absolutely adore browsing the stacks--there > is something that they have learned to love about the experience > regardless of whether they understand that it is made possible by the > work of catalogers assigning call numbers and then using them for > ordering the stacks. > > at uw-madison we have a faculty lecture series where we invite > professors to talk about their use of library materials and their > research and one historian said outright, the one thing that is missing > in the online environment is the experience of browsing the stacks. he > seemed to understand that with all the mass digitization efforts, we > could be on the edge of accomplishing it. > > that said, i agree that we should do what you say also, just that we > should not throw the baby out w/ the bath water. if faculty somehow > understand that browsing the stacks is a good experience then we can > use > it as a metaphor in the online environment. in an unofficial project i > have experimented w/ primitive interface tests using both subject > heading 'more like this' and a link to a stack browse based on a call > number sort: > > http://j2ee-dev.library.wisc.edu/sanecat/item.html?resourceId=951506 > > (please, ignore the sloppy import problems, i just didn't care that > much > for the interface test) > > as for the original question, this has about a million records and > 900,000 w/ item numbers and a simple btree index in the database sorts > at an acceptable speed for a development test. > > -sm > > Walker, David wrote: > >> a decent UI is probably going to be a bigger job > > > > I've always felt that the call number browse was a really useful > option, but the most disastrously implemented feature in most ILS > catalog interfaces. > > > > I think the problem is that we're focusing on the task -- browsing > the shelf -- as opposed to the *goal*, which is, I think, simply to > show users books that are related to the one they are looking at. > > > > If you treat it like that (here are books that are related to this > book) and dispense with the notion of call numbers and shelves in the > interface (even if what you're doing behind the scenes is in fact a > call number browse) then I think you can arrive at a much simpler and > straight-forward UI for users. I would treat it little different than > Amazon's recommendations feature, for example. > > > > --Dave > > > > ====== > >
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
one counter argument that i would make to this is that we consistently hear from faculty that they absolutely adore browsing the stacks--there is something that they have learned to love about the experience regardless of whether they understand that it is made possible by the work of catalogers assigning call numbers and then using them for ordering the stacks. at uw-madison we have a faculty lecture series where we invite professors to talk about their use of library materials and their research and one historian said outright, the one thing that is missing in the online environment is the experience of browsing the stacks. he seemed to understand that with all the mass digitization efforts, we could be on the edge of accomplishing it. that said, i agree that we should do what you say also, just that we should not throw the baby out w/ the bath water. if faculty somehow understand that browsing the stacks is a good experience then we can use it as a metaphor in the online environment. in an unofficial project i have experimented w/ primitive interface tests using both subject heading 'more like this' and a link to a stack browse based on a call number sort: http://j2ee-dev.library.wisc.edu/sanecat/item.html?resourceId=951506 (please, ignore the sloppy import problems, i just didn't care that much for the interface test) as for the original question, this has about a million records and 900,000 w/ item numbers and a simple btree index in the database sorts at an acceptable speed for a development test. -sm Walker, David wrote: a decent UI is probably going to be a bigger job I've always felt that the call number browse was a really useful option, but the most disastrously implemented feature in most ILS catalog interfaces. I think the problem is that we're focusing on the task -- browsing the shelf -- as opposed to the *goal*, which is, I think, simply to show users books that are related to the one they are looking at. If you treat it like that (here are books that are related to this book) and dispense with the notion of call numbers and shelves in the interface (even if what you're doing behind the scenes is in fact a call number browse) then I think you can arrive at a much simpler and straight-forward UI for users. I would treat it little different than Amazon's recommendations feature, for example. --Dave == David Walker Library Web Services Manager California State University http://xerxes.calstate.edu From: Code for Libraries [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephens, Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:17 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse I'm not sure, but my guess would be that the example you give isn't really a 'browse index' function, but rather creates a search result set and presents it in a specific way (i.e. via cover images) sorted by call number (by the look of it, it has an ID of the bib record as input, and it displays this book and 10 before it, and 10 after it, in call number order. Whether this is how bibliocommons achieves it or not is perhaps besides the point - this is how I think I would approach it. I'm winging it here, but if I was doing some quick and very dirty here: A simple db table with fields: Database ID (numeric counter auto-increment) Bib record ID URIs to book covers (or more likely the relevant information to create the URIs such as ISBN) Call number To start, get a report from your ILS with this info in it, sorted by Call Number. To populate the table, import your data (sorted in Call Number order). The Database ID will be created on import, automatically in call number order (there are other, almost certainly better, ways of handling this, but this is simple I think) To create your shelf browse given a Bib ID select that record and get the database ID. Then requery selecting all records which have database IDs +-10 of the one you have just retrieved. Output results in appropriate format (e.g. html) using book cover URIs to display the images. Obviously with this approach, you'd need to recreate your data table regularly to keep it up to date (resetting your Database ID if you want). Well - just how I'd do it if I wanted something up and running quickly. As Andy notes, a decent UI is probably going to be a bigger job ;) Owen Owen Stephens Assistant Director: eStrategy and Information Resources Central Library Imperial College London South Kensington Campus London SW7 2AZ t: +44 (0)20 7594 8829 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Emily Lynema Sent: 17 September 2008 16:46 To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse Hey all, I would love to tackle the issue of creating a really cool call number br
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
Ken, That is an impressive collation of call numbers for each subject! Clearly a lot of work went into this. (For example, bringing together precise call number ranges within BX, DC, GV, HV, HX, LB, NA, NB, PN, PS, TH, and Z into the single topic "Architecture".) Can you tell us a bit about how those call number ranges were compiled? Also, are those browse categories related to UMich departments, or perhaps something else? Cheers, Keith On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Ken Varnum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The categories are sort of interesting in themselves -- each is manually > managed, pulling together LC call numbers that fit into that subject. The > mapping of call numbers and searches is available at > http://www.lib.umich.edu/browse/categories/
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Michael Doran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If you're retrieving the data from your ILS and the ILS already has a > normalized call number field, you would want to retrieve that in addition to > your display call number. That would allow for sorting by call number rather > than by a database ID and would allow for easier updates of the data (i.e. > you wouldn't have to re-generate the entire database ID index). If your ILS > doesn't have normalized call numbers, you might want to normalize them > yourself as part of the data load process. It looks like Michael's already got some beta code out there to normalize LC call numbers ;-) http://rocky.uta.edu/doran/sortlc/sortLC.pl In general, I think normalizing LC will be tricky. (Actually, normalizing *any* schema will, I think, be tricky.) Also, combining call numbers from different schemas (LC and SUDOC in this example) may provide some interesting challenges at the edges. The other (harder-core) route you might go down would be to create a custom datatype and index in your database system of choice. This may actually be easier than transforming call numbers into a natively-indexable string (all you should need is a sort function then, really) -- but extending your database is not for the faint of heart. Cheers, -Nate
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
It just seems like if you've got Endeca doing the heavy lifting already, then building something separate just to allow you to enter a specific point in a sorted results list sounds like hard work? Two possible approaches that occur to me (and of course not knowing Endeca they may be well off base I guess). Can Endeca retrieve all records with a call number, and drop the user into a specific point in the sorted results set? I'm guessing not, otherwise you probably wouldn't be looking for alternative approaches. Is the problem dropping the user in at the right point in the sorted results set, or in the size of the results set generated? An alternative approach possibly? If Endeca can retrieve results and display them in Call Number order, then could you not submit a search that retrieves a 'shelf' of books at a time? That is, take a Call Number as an input, calculate a range around the call number to search and pass this to Endeca? This allows you to control the set size, but still there is a question of whether Endeca can drop the user into a specific point within a sorted results set. If not, then can it return records in a format that you can then manipulate (e.g. XML)? With a small, pre-sorted, results set, it should be relatively easy to build something that drops the user into the correct point based on their search? Owen Owen Stephens Assistant Director: eStrategy and Information Resources Central Library Imperial College London South Kensington Campus London SW7 2AZ t: +44 (0)20 7594 8829 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -Original Message- > From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Emily Lynema > Sent: 21 September 2008 16:38 > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse > > Well, we're using LC and SUDOC here. What I really want is something > that is both searchable and browsable, so that users can type in a call > number and then browse backward and forward as much as they want in > call > number order. > > We have Endeca here, so my patrons can browse into the LC scheme and > then sort the results in call number order, but I don't have a way to > browse forward and backward starting with a specific call number (like > you would if you were browsing the shelves physically). > > -emily > > Keith Jenkins wrote: > > Emily, > > > > Are you using LC or Dewey? > > > > A while back, I wanted to generate browsable lists of new books, > > organized by topic. I ended up using the LC call number to group the > > titles into manageable groups. Here's an example: > > http://supportingcast.mannlib.cornell.edu/newbooks/?loc=mann > > > > Titles are sorted by call number, and also grouped by the initial > > letters of the LC classification, such as "Q" or "QL". For monthly > > lists of new books, most groupings usually have less than 20 titles, > > which makes for easy browsing of titles within someone's general > > subject of interest. The Table of Contents at the top of the page > > only lists those classifications that are present in the set of > titles > > currently being viewed. (In an earlier version, Q would only be > split > > into QA, QB, etc. if there were more than 20 items with Q call > > numbers.) > > > > Things do tend to get a bit out of control in some of the > > classifications for literature... no one wants to scan through a list > > of 452 titles: > > http://supportingcast.mannlib.cornell.edu/newbooks/?class=PL > > > > So for entire collections, a lot more work would be needed to create > > finer subgroups, since each classification is uniquely complex. For > > example: > > PL1-8844 : Languages of Eastern Asia, Africa, Oceania > > PL1-481 : Ural-Altaic languages > > PL21-396 : Turkic languages > > PL400-431 : Mongolian languages > > PL450-481 : Tungus Manchu languages > > > > (An idea... maybe it would work to simply forget about pre- > determined, > > named call number ranges and look for "natural breaks" in the call > > numbers, rather than trying to model the intricate details of each > > individual classification schedule.) > > > > The site runs on a set of MARC records extracted from the catalog. > > Users can also subscribe to RSS feeds for any combination of > location, > > language, or classification group. > > > > I did some early experimentation to include cover images, but never > > seemed to get enough matches to make that worthwhile. > > > > Keith > > > > Keith Jenkins > > GIS/Geospatial Applications Librari
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
We have something like this running in a prototype form at http://www.lib.umich.edu/virtual/ Rather than being a pure browse tool, it lets users view our collection by category so that related items across 20 physical locations can be viewed as if on one shelf. Books that have been digitized and are searchable the Google Book project (HathiTrust) include a search field. It's built on an API into our Aleph OPAC. This site is a proof of concept so still has some bugs. The categories are sort of interesting in themselves -- each is manually managed, pulling together LC call numbers that fit into that subject. The mapping of call numbers and searches is available at http://www.lib.umich.edu/browse/categories/ Ken -- Ken Varnum Web Systems Manager University Library E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Michigan T: 734-615-3287 309 Harlan Hatcher Graduate Library F: 734-647-6897 Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1205 http://www.lib.umich.edu/ > From: Emily Lynema <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Organization: NCSU Libraries > Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:46:19 -0400 > To: > Subject: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse > > Hey all, > > I would love to tackle the issue of creating a really cool call number > browse tool that utilizes book covers, etc. However, I'd like to do this > outside of my ILS/OPAC. What I don't know is whether there are any > indexing / SQL / query techniques that could be used to browse forward > and backword in an index like this. > > Has anyone else worked on developing a tool like this outside of the > OPAC? I guess I would be perfectly happy even if it was something I > could build directly on top of the ILS database and its indexes (we use > SirsiDynix Unicorn). > > I wanted to throw a feeler out there before trying to dream up some wild > scheme on my own. > > -emily > > P.S. The version of BiblioCommons released at Oakville Public Library > has a sweet call number browse function accessible from the full record > page. I would love to know know how that was accomplished. > > http://opl.bibliocommons.com/item/show/1413841_mars > > -- > Emily Lynema > Systems Librarian for Digital Projects > Information Technology, NCSU Libraries > 919-513-8031 > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
Hi, One approach to the UI might be to use Cooliris (was piclens) and generate a media rss file in call number order. It's limited (to people who have installed cooliris) but it's essentially a coverflow. You can do other things within the browser, but few are going to feel as immediate and tranparent to the user. Again, maybe not for all users, but maybe a cool enhanced version for a subset. Generating that media rss file may get tricky (you need uris to thumbs and "fulls") depending on the API from, and agreements with syndetics. -t On Wed, 17 Sep 2008, Charles Antoine Julien, Mr wrote: I've done some work this. " What I don't know is whether there are any indexing / SQL / query techniques that could be used to browse forward and backword in an index like this." Depending on what you want to do exactly, yes. Look at Querying Ontologies in Relational Database Systems - ►hu-berlin.de [PDF] S Trissl, U Leser - LECTURE NOTES IN COMPUTER SCIENCE, 2005 - Springer If you need more you're looking at CS literature concerning treatment of graphs, directed graphs, cyclical, transitive closure, etc. This can all be done without to much difficulty but as Nate pointed out updating the data is a problem...I've not tackled that part but there is much literature on dynamic graphs and I'm assuming this could also be adequately solved. a decent UI is probably going to be a bigger job Yes, that's the real issue. Could call numbers be placed within a hierarchy? Then display this in an outline view (Windows Explorer) that is also item searchable? Seems to me there is structure in the call numbers that is hidden in current UIs. I also think the actual "Call number" should disappear and replaced by a textual label describing what the numbers mean. Fun stuff to think about... Charles-Antoine -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Emily Lynema Sent: September 17, 2008 11:46 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse Hey all, I would love to tackle the issue of creating a really cool call number browse tool that utilizes book covers, etc. However, I'd like to do this outside of my ILS/OPAC. What I don't know is whether there are any indexing / SQL / query techniques that could be used to browse forward and backword in an index like this. Has anyone else worked on developing a tool like this outside of the OPAC? I guess I would be perfectly happy even if it was something I could build directly on top of the ILS database and its indexes (we use SirsiDynix Unicorn). I wanted to throw a feeler out there before trying to dream up some wild scheme on my own. -emily P.S. The version of BiblioCommons released at Oakville Public Library has a sweet call number browse function accessible from the full record page. I would love to know know how that was accomplished. http://opl.bibliocommons.com/item/show/1413841_mars -- Emily Lynema Systems Librarian for Digital Projects Information Technology, NCSU Libraries 919-513-8031 [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date: 17/09/2008 9:33 AM
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
Well, in this case one of the major goals of this project would be to remove the dependency on the OPAC for providing a call number browse. We would like to be able to turn off support for our OPAC here at some point, since we're not using any longer for keyword searching. -emily William C Kurt wrote: Why not just build a decent cover flow UI over the existing call number browse in the catalog with Javascript? Just grab the cover images and display them using something like http://www.deensoft.com/lab/protoflow/ That way you could recreate the 'browsing' experience, not have to have the user learn a new tool and not have to worry about how you're going to implement browsing the call numbers (similar to what the Oakville Public Library is doing on that page). In the past I put together a quick demo of this (not for call numbers, just for regular search listings) in an evening: http://lib-bling.com/unr/unrdemo/unrcoverflowdemo.htm That's a very rough demo but implementing something similar using default call number browse in the catalog would probably be not much more difficult and would provide roughly the experience it seems you're looking for without having to worry about overly complex solutions. --Will Will Kurt Applications Development Librarian University of Nevada, Reno Mathewson-IGT Knowledge Center phone: 775 682-5679 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Emily Lynema Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 8:46 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse Hey all, I would love to tackle the issue of creating a really cool call number browse tool that utilizes book covers, etc. However, I'd like to do this outside of my ILS/OPAC. What I don't know is whether there are any indexing / SQL / query techniques that could be used to browse forward and backword in an index like this. Has anyone else worked on developing a tool like this outside of the OPAC? I guess I would be perfectly happy even if it was something I could build directly on top of the ILS database and its indexes (we use SirsiDynix Unicorn). I wanted to throw a feeler out there before trying to dream up some wild scheme on my own. -emily P.S. The version of BiblioCommons released at Oakville Public Library has a sweet call number browse function accessible from the full record page. I would love to know know how that was accomplished. http://opl.bibliocommons.com/item/show/1413841_mars -- Emily Lynema Systems Librarian for Digital Projects Information Technology, NCSU Libraries 919-513-8031 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
Why not just build a decent cover flow UI over the existing call number browse in the catalog with Javascript? Just grab the cover images and display them using something like http://www.deensoft.com/lab/protoflow/ That way you could recreate the 'browsing' experience, not have to have the user learn a new tool and not have to worry about how you're going to implement browsing the call numbers (similar to what the Oakville Public Library is doing on that page). In the past I put together a quick demo of this (not for call numbers, just for regular search listings) in an evening: http://lib-bling.com/unr/unrdemo/unrcoverflowdemo.htm That's a very rough demo but implementing something similar using default call number browse in the catalog would probably be not much more difficult and would provide roughly the experience it seems you're looking for without having to worry about overly complex solutions. --Will Will Kurt Applications Development Librarian University of Nevada, Reno Mathewson-IGT Knowledge Center phone: 775 682-5679 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Emily Lynema Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 8:46 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse Hey all, I would love to tackle the issue of creating a really cool call number browse tool that utilizes book covers, etc. However, I'd like to do this outside of my ILS/OPAC. What I don't know is whether there are any indexing / SQL / query techniques that could be used to browse forward and backword in an index like this. Has anyone else worked on developing a tool like this outside of the OPAC? I guess I would be perfectly happy even if it was something I could build directly on top of the ILS database and its indexes (we use SirsiDynix Unicorn). I wanted to throw a feeler out there before trying to dream up some wild scheme on my own. -emily P.S. The version of BiblioCommons released at Oakville Public Library has a sweet call number browse function accessible from the full record page. I would love to know know how that was accomplished. http://opl.bibliocommons.com/item/show/1413841_mars -- Emily Lynema Systems Librarian for Digital Projects Information Technology, NCSU Libraries 919-513-8031 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
Well, we're using LC and SUDOC here. What I really want is something that is both searchable and browsable, so that users can type in a call number and then browse backward and forward as much as they want in call number order. We have Endeca here, so my patrons can browse into the LC scheme and then sort the results in call number order, but I don't have a way to browse forward and backward starting with a specific call number (like you would if you were browsing the shelves physically). -emily Keith Jenkins wrote: Emily, Are you using LC or Dewey? A while back, I wanted to generate browsable lists of new books, organized by topic. I ended up using the LC call number to group the titles into manageable groups. Here's an example: http://supportingcast.mannlib.cornell.edu/newbooks/?loc=mann Titles are sorted by call number, and also grouped by the initial letters of the LC classification, such as "Q" or "QL". For monthly lists of new books, most groupings usually have less than 20 titles, which makes for easy browsing of titles within someone's general subject of interest. The Table of Contents at the top of the page only lists those classifications that are present in the set of titles currently being viewed. (In an earlier version, Q would only be split into QA, QB, etc. if there were more than 20 items with Q call numbers.) Things do tend to get a bit out of control in some of the classifications for literature... no one wants to scan through a list of 452 titles: http://supportingcast.mannlib.cornell.edu/newbooks/?class=PL So for entire collections, a lot more work would be needed to create finer subgroups, since each classification is uniquely complex. For example: PL1-8844 : Languages of Eastern Asia, Africa, Oceania PL1-481 : Ural-Altaic languages PL21-396 : Turkic languages PL400-431 : Mongolian languages PL450-481 : Tungus Manchu languages (An idea... maybe it would work to simply forget about pre-determined, named call number ranges and look for "natural breaks" in the call numbers, rather than trying to model the intricate details of each individual classification schedule.) The site runs on a set of MARC records extracted from the catalog. Users can also subscribe to RSS feeds for any combination of location, language, or classification group. I did some early experimentation to include cover images, but never seemed to get enough matches to make that worthwhile. Keith Keith Jenkins GIS/Geospatial Applications Librarian Mann Library, Cornell University Ithaca, New York 14853 On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Emily Lynema <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hey all, I would love to tackle the issue of creating a really cool call number browse tool that utilizes book covers, etc. However, I'd like to do this outside of my ILS/OPAC. What I don't know is whether there are any indexing / SQL / query techniques that could be used to browse forward and backword in an index like this. Has anyone else worked on developing a tool like this outside of the OPAC? I guess I would be perfectly happy even if it was something I could build directly on top of the ILS database and its indexes (we use SirsiDynix Unicorn). I wanted to throw a feeler out there before trying to dream up some wild scheme on my own. -emily P.S. The version of BiblioCommons released at Oakville Public Library has a sweet call number browse function accessible from the full record page. I would love to know know how that was accomplished. http://opl.bibliocommons.com/item/show/1413841_mars -- Emily Lynema Systems Librarian for Digital Projects Information Technology, NCSU Libraries 919-513-8031 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Emily Lynema Systems Librarian for Digital Projects Information Technology, NCSU Libraries 919-513-8031 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
Emily, Are you using LC or Dewey? A while back, I wanted to generate browsable lists of new books, organized by topic. I ended up using the LC call number to group the titles into manageable groups. Here's an example: http://supportingcast.mannlib.cornell.edu/newbooks/?loc=mann Titles are sorted by call number, and also grouped by the initial letters of the LC classification, such as "Q" or "QL". For monthly lists of new books, most groupings usually have less than 20 titles, which makes for easy browsing of titles within someone's general subject of interest. The Table of Contents at the top of the page only lists those classifications that are present in the set of titles currently being viewed. (In an earlier version, Q would only be split into QA, QB, etc. if there were more than 20 items with Q call numbers.) Things do tend to get a bit out of control in some of the classifications for literature... no one wants to scan through a list of 452 titles: http://supportingcast.mannlib.cornell.edu/newbooks/?class=PL So for entire collections, a lot more work would be needed to create finer subgroups, since each classification is uniquely complex. For example: PL1-8844 : Languages of Eastern Asia, Africa, Oceania PL1-481 : Ural-Altaic languages PL21-396 : Turkic languages PL400-431 : Mongolian languages PL450-481 : Tungus Manchu languages (An idea... maybe it would work to simply forget about pre-determined, named call number ranges and look for "natural breaks" in the call numbers, rather than trying to model the intricate details of each individual classification schedule.) The site runs on a set of MARC records extracted from the catalog. Users can also subscribe to RSS feeds for any combination of location, language, or classification group. I did some early experimentation to include cover images, but never seemed to get enough matches to make that worthwhile. Keith Keith Jenkins GIS/Geospatial Applications Librarian Mann Library, Cornell University Ithaca, New York 14853 On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Emily Lynema <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey all, > > I would love to tackle the issue of creating a really cool call number > browse tool that utilizes book covers, etc. However, I'd like to do this > outside of my ILS/OPAC. What I don't know is whether there are any indexing > / SQL / query techniques that could be used to browse forward and backword > in an index like this. > > Has anyone else worked on developing a tool like this outside of the OPAC? I > guess I would be perfectly happy even if it was something I could build > directly on top of the ILS database and its indexes (we use SirsiDynix > Unicorn). > > I wanted to throw a feeler out there before trying to dream up some wild > scheme on my own. > > -emily > > P.S. The version of BiblioCommons released at Oakville Public Library has a > sweet call number browse function accessible from the full record page. I > would love to know know how that was accomplished. > > http://opl.bibliocommons.com/item/show/1413841_mars > > -- > Emily Lynema > Systems Librarian for Digital Projects > Information Technology, NCSU Libraries > 919-513-8031 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
To build on Nate's suggestion... > Sorting a list of call numbers is pretty easy; doing it efficiently > for large datasets is rather more tricky. I'm not totally sure, but > the best course of action may be to transform the call numbers into > something indexable (say, a string) that follows the same ordering > rules as your call numbers. If you're retrieving the data from your ILS and the ILS already has a normalized call number field, you would want to retrieve that in addition to your display call number. That would allow for sorting by call number rather than by a database ID and would allow for easier updates of the data (i.e. you wouldn't have to re-generate the entire database ID index). If your ILS doesn't have normalized call numbers, you might want to normalize them yourself as part of the data load process. -- Michael # Michael Doran, Systems Librarian # University of Texas at Arlington # 817-272-5326 office # 817-688-1926 mobile # [EMAIL PROTECTED] # http://rocky.uta.edu/doran/ > -Original Message- > From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Nate Vack > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:36 AM > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse > > On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Stephens, Owen > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > To start, get a report from your ILS with this info in it, sorted by > > Call Number. To populate the table, import your data (sorted in Call > > Number order). The Database ID will be created on import, > automatically > > in call number order (there are other, almost certainly > better, ways of > > handling this, but this is simple I think) > > The trick here comes, of course, when you want to add a book to the > middle of your database without re-generating the entire index -- that > operation may be expensive. > > Sorting a list of call numbers is pretty easy; doing it efficiently > for large datasets is rather more tricky. I'm not totally sure, but > the best course of action may be to transform the call numbers into > something indexable (say, a string) that follows the same ordering > rules as your call numbers. > > Then, compute the transformation of all your call numbers and drop an > ordinary index on the field. > > -Nate >
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
I've done some work this. " What I don't know is whether there are any indexing / SQL / query techniques that could be used to browse forward and backword in an index like this." Depending on what you want to do exactly, yes. Look at Querying Ontologies in Relational Database Systems - ►hu-berlin.de [PDF] S Trissl, U Leser - LECTURE NOTES IN COMPUTER SCIENCE, 2005 - Springer If you need more you're looking at CS literature concerning treatment of graphs, directed graphs, cyclical, transitive closure, etc. This can all be done without to much difficulty but as Nate pointed out updating the data is a problem...I've not tackled that part but there is much literature on dynamic graphs and I'm assuming this could also be adequately solved. > a decent UI is probably going to be a bigger job Yes, that's the real issue. Could call numbers be placed within a hierarchy? Then display this in an outline view (Windows Explorer) that is also item searchable? Seems to me there is structure in the call numbers that is hidden in current UIs. I also think the actual "Call number" should disappear and replaced by a textual label describing what the numbers mean. Fun stuff to think about... Charles-Antoine -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Emily Lynema Sent: September 17, 2008 11:46 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse Hey all, I would love to tackle the issue of creating a really cool call number browse tool that utilizes book covers, etc. However, I'd like to do this outside of my ILS/OPAC. What I don't know is whether there are any indexing / SQL / query techniques that could be used to browse forward and backword in an index like this. Has anyone else worked on developing a tool like this outside of the OPAC? I guess I would be perfectly happy even if it was something I could build directly on top of the ILS database and its indexes (we use SirsiDynix Unicorn). I wanted to throw a feeler out there before trying to dream up some wild scheme on my own. -emily P.S. The version of BiblioCommons released at Oakville Public Library has a sweet call number browse function accessible from the full record page. I would love to know know how that was accomplished. http://opl.bibliocommons.com/item/show/1413841_mars -- Emily Lynema Systems Librarian for Digital Projects Information Technology, NCSU Libraries 919-513-8031 [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date: 17/09/2008 9:33 AM
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
Call number browse often fails because of one primary reason: local call numbers that don't fit $CALL_NUMBER_SYSTEM. The biggest example that I can think of are non-book/serial materials, like AV materials and archival collections. Mark A. Matienzo Applications Developer, NYPL Labs The New York Public Library
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
> a decent UI is probably going to be a bigger job I've always felt that the call number browse was a really useful option, but the most disastrously implemented feature in most ILS catalog interfaces. I think the problem is that we're focusing on the task -- browsing the shelf -- as opposed to the *goal*, which is, I think, simply to show users books that are related to the one they are looking at. If you treat it like that (here are books that are related to this book) and dispense with the notion of call numbers and shelves in the interface (even if what you're doing behind the scenes is in fact a call number browse) then I think you can arrive at a much simpler and straight-forward UI for users. I would treat it little different than Amazon's recommendations feature, for example. --Dave == David Walker Library Web Services Manager California State University http://xerxes.calstate.edu From: Code for Libraries [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephens, Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:17 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse I'm not sure, but my guess would be that the example you give isn't really a 'browse index' function, but rather creates a search result set and presents it in a specific way (i.e. via cover images) sorted by call number (by the look of it, it has an ID of the bib record as input, and it displays this book and 10 before it, and 10 after it, in call number order. Whether this is how bibliocommons achieves it or not is perhaps besides the point - this is how I think I would approach it. I'm winging it here, but if I was doing some quick and very dirty here: A simple db table with fields: Database ID (numeric counter auto-increment) Bib record ID URIs to book covers (or more likely the relevant information to create the URIs such as ISBN) Call number To start, get a report from your ILS with this info in it, sorted by Call Number. To populate the table, import your data (sorted in Call Number order). The Database ID will be created on import, automatically in call number order (there are other, almost certainly better, ways of handling this, but this is simple I think) To create your shelf browse given a Bib ID select that record and get the database ID. Then requery selecting all records which have database IDs +-10 of the one you have just retrieved. Output results in appropriate format (e.g. html) using book cover URIs to display the images. Obviously with this approach, you'd need to recreate your data table regularly to keep it up to date (resetting your Database ID if you want). Well - just how I'd do it if I wanted something up and running quickly. As Andy notes, a decent UI is probably going to be a bigger job ;) Owen Owen Stephens Assistant Director: eStrategy and Information Resources Central Library Imperial College London South Kensington Campus London SW7 2AZ t: +44 (0)20 7594 8829 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -Original Message- > From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Emily Lynema > Sent: 17 September 2008 16:46 > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > Subject: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse > > Hey all, > > I would love to tackle the issue of creating a really cool call number > browse tool that utilizes book covers, etc. However, I'd like to do > this > outside of my ILS/OPAC. What I don't know is whether there are any > indexing / SQL / query techniques that could be used to browse forward > and backword in an index like this. > > Has anyone else worked on developing a tool like this outside of the > OPAC? I guess I would be perfectly happy even if it was something I > could build directly on top of the ILS database and its indexes (we use > SirsiDynix Unicorn). > > I wanted to throw a feeler out there before trying to dream up some > wild > scheme on my own. > > -emily > > P.S. The version of BiblioCommons released at Oakville Public Library > has a sweet call number browse function accessible from the full record > page. I would love to know know how that was accomplished. > > http://opl.bibliocommons.com/item/show/1413841_mars > > -- > Emily Lynema > Systems Librarian for Digital Projects > Information Technology, NCSU Libraries > 919-513-8031 > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Stephens, Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > To start, get a report from your ILS with this info in it, sorted by > Call Number. To populate the table, import your data (sorted in Call > Number order). The Database ID will be created on import, automatically > in call number order (there are other, almost certainly better, ways of > handling this, but this is simple I think) The trick here comes, of course, when you want to add a book to the middle of your database without re-generating the entire index -- that operation may be expensive. Sorting a list of call numbers is pretty easy; doing it efficiently for large datasets is rather more tricky. I'm not totally sure, but the best course of action may be to transform the call numbers into something indexable (say, a string) that follows the same ordering rules as your call numbers. Then, compute the transformation of all your call numbers and drop an ordinary index on the field. -Nate
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
I'm not sure, but my guess would be that the example you give isn't really a 'browse index' function, but rather creates a search result set and presents it in a specific way (i.e. via cover images) sorted by call number (by the look of it, it has an ID of the bib record as input, and it displays this book and 10 before it, and 10 after it, in call number order. Whether this is how bibliocommons achieves it or not is perhaps besides the point - this is how I think I would approach it. I'm winging it here, but if I was doing some quick and very dirty here: A simple db table with fields: Database ID (numeric counter auto-increment) Bib record ID URIs to book covers (or more likely the relevant information to create the URIs such as ISBN) Call number To start, get a report from your ILS with this info in it, sorted by Call Number. To populate the table, import your data (sorted in Call Number order). The Database ID will be created on import, automatically in call number order (there are other, almost certainly better, ways of handling this, but this is simple I think) To create your shelf browse given a Bib ID select that record and get the database ID. Then requery selecting all records which have database IDs +-10 of the one you have just retrieved. Output results in appropriate format (e.g. html) using book cover URIs to display the images. Obviously with this approach, you'd need to recreate your data table regularly to keep it up to date (resetting your Database ID if you want). Well - just how I'd do it if I wanted something up and running quickly. As Andy notes, a decent UI is probably going to be a bigger job ;) Owen Owen Stephens Assistant Director: eStrategy and Information Resources Central Library Imperial College London South Kensington Campus London SW7 2AZ t: +44 (0)20 7594 8829 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -Original Message- > From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Emily Lynema > Sent: 17 September 2008 16:46 > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > Subject: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse > > Hey all, > > I would love to tackle the issue of creating a really cool call number > browse tool that utilizes book covers, etc. However, I'd like to do > this > outside of my ILS/OPAC. What I don't know is whether there are any > indexing / SQL / query techniques that could be used to browse forward > and backword in an index like this. > > Has anyone else worked on developing a tool like this outside of the > OPAC? I guess I would be perfectly happy even if it was something I > could build directly on top of the ILS database and its indexes (we use > SirsiDynix Unicorn). > > I wanted to throw a feeler out there before trying to dream up some > wild > scheme on my own. > > -emily > > P.S. The version of BiblioCommons released at Oakville Public Library > has a sweet call number browse function accessible from the full record > page. I would love to know know how that was accomplished. > > http://opl.bibliocommons.com/item/show/1413841_mars > > -- > Emily Lynema > Systems Librarian for Digital Projects > Information Technology, NCSU Libraries > 919-513-8031 > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Emily Lynema > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:46 AM > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > Subject: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse > > Hey all, > > I would love to tackle the issue of creating a really cool call number > browse tool that utilizes book covers, etc. However, I'd like to do > this > outside of my ILS/OPAC. What I don't know is whether there are any > indexing / SQL / query techniques that could be used to browse forward > and backword in an index like this. > > Has anyone else worked on developing a tool like this outside of the > OPAC? I guess I would be perfectly happy even if it was something I > could build directly on top of the ILS database and its indexes (we use > SirsiDynix Unicorn). Our group has done something simliar with the DDC rather than using call numbers. You can find information about the Dewey browser here: <http://www.oclc.org/research/researchworks/ddc/browser.htm> and the prototype browser can be access here: <http://deweybrowser.oclc.org/ddcbrowser2/> The prototype runs on the Linux platform under Apache HTTP or Tomcat and uses Apache Solr to index and search the records. According to the developer it was fairly easy to put together using Apache Solr. The difficult part was the UI which has taken many iterations... Andy.
[CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
Hey all, I would love to tackle the issue of creating a really cool call number browse tool that utilizes book covers, etc. However, I'd like to do this outside of my ILS/OPAC. What I don't know is whether there are any indexing / SQL / query techniques that could be used to browse forward and backword in an index like this. Has anyone else worked on developing a tool like this outside of the OPAC? I guess I would be perfectly happy even if it was something I could build directly on top of the ILS database and its indexes (we use SirsiDynix Unicorn). I wanted to throw a feeler out there before trying to dream up some wild scheme on my own. -emily P.S. The version of BiblioCommons released at Oakville Public Library has a sweet call number browse function accessible from the full record page. I would love to know know how that was accomplished. http://opl.bibliocommons.com/item/show/1413841_mars -- Emily Lynema Systems Librarian for Digital Projects Information Technology, NCSU Libraries 919-513-8031 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
