Re: [Collab] [External Email]Re: Reply to WSJ article on "millet" having "no taste"

[Brenner, David (CTR) - REE-ARS via Collab]

If this were a taste race with rice some millets could win placing near bulgar 
wheat.  I would like to enter waxy versions of millets in the same race, but I 
have never tasted them, so I just guess they are wonderful.  Cooks make 
whole-plate compositions, as Don says.  For example, we still have vanilla ice 
cream even though chocolate ice cream and sherbert are available.   David 
Brenner


From: Collab  on behalf of Joni 
Kindwall-Moore 
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2024 9:30 AM
To: Don Osborn 
Cc: collab@lists.millets2023.space 
Subject: [External Email]Re: [Collab] Reply to WSJ article on "millet" having 
"no taste"

[External Email]
If this message comes from an unexpected sender or references a 
vague/unexpected topic;
Use caution before clicking links or opening attachments.
Please send any concerns or suspicious messages to: spam.ab...@usda.gov
Yes, it was clear that it was just a 'click bait' silly article for the reasons 
you mentioned above Don. What a wasted of journalism space. We should write a 
rebuttal and approach the WSJ with it.

On Sun, Mar 24, 2024 at 8:04 PM Don Osborn 
mailto:d...@milletsalliance.org>> wrote:
Here is my reply to the Wall Street Journal article that characterised "millet" 
as a "superfood" with "no taste."  Thank you again to Prof. Dipak Santra for 
enabling us to access the full article. Thanks also to Gary Wietgrefe for his 
take on this issue, which I used in the third ("So what?") question I raised. 
This was posted to LinkedIn on Friday 3/22.  DO


The Wall Street Journal ran a feature article last fall that was less than 
favorable about hashtag#millets from the perspective of hashtag#flavor - "It’s 
the World’s Hot New Superfood. The Snag: It ‘Has No Taste.’"* Although the 
authors cover some useful points - and one is never upset to see more 
discussion about millets - I'd like to engage with the premise of "no taste." 
To do so I'll pose three questions: What are we talking about? What are we 
expecting? & So what?

First, however, wanted to express surprise that no reference was made in the 
article to the larger context of Indian P.M. Narenda Modi's interest in these 
grains, namely, the International Year of Millets (2023). How could the authors 
and the WSJ editors fail to mention this observance, the promotion of which has 
been a major project of P.M. Modi's government, and which was ongoing at the 
time of publication?

My three questions about the article's premise that millets have no taste, and 
thoughts about them, follow:
1. What are we talking about? The article is one of those which uses the 
singular "millet" throughout, and this generally raises the question of whether 
the authors are referring to (a) one specific kind of millet, being unaware of 
other kinds, or rather (b) all kinds of millets, seen as having the same 
characteristics. In this case, I'll assume that the authors (Shan Li and Rajesh 
Roy) are aware of the plurality of millets, but for whatever reason, treat them 
as so similar as to present as one thing in foods (b).

In fact, millets are not the same. Personally I found this out years ago when 
buying one "millet" thinking it was another, and finding out that the taste was 
totally different. Today, some millets like proso and fonio are described as 
having a slightly "nutty" flavor (this adjective is admittedly overused), 
although I've also seen proso once compared to roasted corn (not sure I'd 
agree, but it's clearly not without taste). Others, like little, kodo, 
barnyard, are flatter in taste, closer to rice. One author described finger 
millet as having a chocolatey flavor. Pearl millet has yet another flavor, 
which I find unique.

2. What are we expecting? Grains in general have subtle flavors, and millets 
are no exception. They bring notes and textures to a dish or confection, as 
well as bulk (esp. in high-starch diets), but aren't there to dominate. Even 
bread, typically built around wheat flour, includes a few or even many other 
ingredients - and then is eaten as a side or with a spread.

3. So what if they did have "no taste"? Who normally eats a grain without 
accompaniment of some sort? Even if a millet is perceived as being bland, I'd 
argue that the issue is what combinations work best with it. Food cultures of 
Asia and Africa may be well-established in this respect, but there is 
opportunity to experiment further everywhere - and that's the key message I'd 
propose at this point.

* WSJ, 20 Oct 2023 
https://www.wsj.com/world/asia/supergrain-millet-healthy-india-modi-2cc8b9d4


Don Osborn, PhD
(East Lansing, MI, US)
North American Millets Alliance


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Collab mailing list
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Re: [Collab] [External Email]Re: Seeking Pearl Millet Seed

[Brenner, David (CTR) - REE-ARS via Collab]

We send seeds to Canada occasionally. The Canadians have a good proso millet 
collection.
David Brenner

From: Harrison, Melanie - REE-ARS 
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2024 4:11 PM
To: Don Osborn ; dbren...@iastate.edu 

Cc: collab@lists.millets2023.space 
Subject: RE: [External Email]Re: [Collab] Seeking Pearl Millet Seed


Hi Don,



I do not interact with either of these agencies on a regular basis myself. 
David Brenner may have more interaction, but I will let him answer that 
question.



Melanie



From: Don Osborn 
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2024 7:59 PM
To: Harrison, Melanie - REE-ARS 
Cc: collab@lists.millets2023.space
Subject: Re: [External Email]Re: [Collab] Seeking Pearl Millet Seed



Thank you, Melanie, for your reply and the information you shared, including 
the attached "Report to the Sorghum and Millet Crop Germplasm Committee" (April 
2024). The work you are doing is appreciated.



May I ask if your office (and I might add to this question, the USDA station 
that David Brenner heads in Ames, IA) has any regular interaction with 
counterpart agencies in Canada and Mexico? The latter might have interesting 
potential for what we call "S9 millets," which scientists there would certainly 
be aware of.



All the best,



Don



DO, EL, MI, US

NAMA





On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 8:54 AM Harrison, Melanie - REE-ARS 
mailto:melanie.harri...@usda.gov>> wrote:

Hi All,



I curate the pearl millet collection that is maintained in Griffin, GA. Our 
germplasm is available in small quantities (100 seed per accession) for 
researchers and plant breeders. Information about the collection which is part 
of the USDA National Plant Germplasm System can be found at 
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/cropdetail?type=species&id=445. To 
note, the pearl millet is included in the S9 millets group.



I gave a report at the recent Sorghum and Millet Crop Germplasm Committee that 
was held in conjunction with the Sorghum Improvement Conference of North 
America (see attached). The report mainly focuses on sorghum but also includes 
information about the status of the pearl millet collection.



If you need additional information from me, please let me know.



Sincerely,

Melanie





[USDA Logo Colored]

Melanie Harrison, PhD.

Research Leader

Plant Genetic Resources Conservation 
Unit

United States Department of Agriculture

Agricultural Research Service

1109 Experiment Street

Griffin, GA  30223









From: Don Osborn mailto:d...@milletsalliance.org>>
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2024 7:49 PM
To: collab@lists.millets2023.space
Cc: Steve DeWitt mailto:wcfarms2...@icloud.com>>; Joni 
Kindwall-Moore mailto:j...@snacktivistfoods.com>>
Subject: [External Email]Re: [Collab] Seeking Pearl Millet Seed



[External Email]
If this message comes from an unexpected sender or references a 
vague/unexpected topic;
Use caution before clicking links or opening attachments.
Please send any concerns or suspicious messages to: 
spam.ab...@usda.gov

Thank you, Steve, for the question, and Joni, for the follow up.



Since there are several people on this list with an interest of one sort or 
another in pearl millet as a grain crop in the US for human consumption, as 
well as others who are not here, I've been thinking about ways to facilitate 
communication among people in this group.



A first question, however, is whether there is any existing  group of people of 
any specialization in North America, concerned with growing grain pearl millet 
for human food?



If not, would there be interest in an online meeting on grain pearl millet in 
North America, to include interested researchers, farmers, processors, and 
culinary experts?



I'm bcc'ing Melanie Harrison of the USDA station in Griffin, Georgia, which 
deals with pearl millet (among some of the other millets) for her info and 
possible input regarding (1) seed, and (2) a possible interest group.


DO, EL, MI, US

NAMA





On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 12:36 PM Joni Kindwall-Moore 
mailto:j...@snacktivistfoods.com>> wrote:

Steve, do you know Clint Jessen in WY? He grows it, want me to connect you?




Joni Kindwall-Moore BSN-RN, BA

Founder, Innovator, Mother, Nurse, Activist

[Image removed by sender.]

P: 406-334-1608 www.snacktivistfoods.com

Scan this QR code to experience the Snacktivist Nation!

[Image removed by sender.]





On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 9:22 AM Steve DeWitt via Collab 
mailto:collab@lists.millets2023.space>> wrote:

I have been searching for a source of grain type Pearl Millet seed for planting 
in Oklahoma this Spring. There are plenty of forage hybrids available, but I’ve 
had no luck finding a shorter statured grain variety. 10 to 50 pounds is 
sufficient.
Any referrals or contacts are greatly appreciated.
Steve DeWitt
Willow Creek Farms
wcfarms2...@icloud.co

Re: [Collab] [External Email]Re: Ankee or 'anki, a Mojave barnyard millet?

[Brenner, David (CTR) - REE-ARS via Collab]

Don,

We have one accession of domesticated Panicum hirticaule in the US National 
plant Germplasm System (PI 654448) and could accession more if someone has them.
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=1705671

We have diverse wild and grain Echinochloa but I think none that exactly match 
the description below.

David Brenner
NC7


From: Collab  on behalf of Don Osborn 

Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2024 10:05 AM
To: collab@lists.millets2023.space 
Subject: [External Email]Re: [Collab] Ankee or 'anki, a Mojave barnyard millet?


And another follow-up:

In response to an email to him, Dr. Gary Nabhan - who early in his career was 
key to locating ongoing cultivation of a Panicum hirticaule cultivar in Sonora, 
Mexico/9 - kindly indicated an older key reference on Native American 
agriculture and food in the lower Colorado and Gila River valleys - Edward 
Castetter and Willis Bell's 1951 "Yuman Indian Agriculture."/10 Among the 
information in that volume are mentions and a brief discussion of use and 
management of Echinochloa crus-galli by not only the Mohave, but also 
neighboring Native American peoples - the Yuma, Cocopa, and Maricopa.

Basically, E. crus-galli - again in the Mojave language, 'anki - was managed in 
tidal areas of the rivers, with the grain used for food. (Of course, the main 
staple being varieties of corn.) There was also mention of E. colona. (In 
literature on barnyard millet, E. crus-galli is indicated as the wild form of 
the domesticated E. esculenta, or Japanese [barnyard] millet, and E. colona the 
source for the domesticated E. frumentacea, or Indian barnyard millet - but 
apparently that's still a matter of discussion.) There is also mention of 
Panicum hirticaule.

Interestingly, I found no mention by Castetter and Bell of the tall (7 ft.) 
variety of "ankee" described in the 1899 USDA publications cited earlier./1/2 
Was this variety lost to the Mohave and their neighbors? Have any accessions 
been maintained by any USDA station?

The flow of the Colorado River and the agro-ecology of the region described in 
the book changed markedly after the completion of the Hoover Dam (or Boulder 
Dam, as it was referred to in the book) in 1935  Basically the seasonal 
flooding of riverine areas that supported traditional agriculture and 
subsistence strategies ceased,

DO, EL, MI, US
NAMA

Notes (numbering cont'd):
9. See discussion and references under "PANICUM HIRTICAULE or P. SONORUM" in my 
post to this list on 30 Oct. 2022 
https://lists.millets2023.space/pipermail/collab/2022-October/90.html
10. Castetter, Edward F., and Willis H. Bell, Yuman Indian Agriculture : 
Primitive Subsistence on the Lower Colorado and Gila Rivers, University of New 
Mexico Press, 1951. The full text of this book is accessible online at 
https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/006771195




On Sat, Jul 13, 2024 at 1:22 PM Don Osborn 
mailto:d...@milletsalliance.org>> wrote:
A very quick follow up. FIrst of all, erratum in the previous posting: the year 
of publication for Thomas Williams' bulletin on millets was 1899, not 1988.

Also, whatever the fate of the Mohave 'anki millet, the "ankee" or "ankee 
millet" name persist. It figures in Elaine Nowick's nice compilation on common 
names for plants in the Great Plains./7 One also encounters it in various 
webpages dealing with barnyard millet outside of North America, including one 
at the Atlas of Living Austraila, that associates the name with E. esculentis./8

Anyway, "ankee" is part of the vocabulary of millets, which I didn't even know 
until yesterday.

Best to all,

Don

DO, EL, MI, US
NAMA

Notes (numbering cont'd):
7. Nowick, Elaine, Historical Common Names of Great Plains Plants, Vol 1, 
''Common Names'', Zea Books, 2015 https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/188096594.pdf
8. Atlas of Living Australia, "Ankee millet" (accessed 13 July 2024) 
bie.ala.org.au/species/https%3A//id.biodiversity.org.au/instance/apni/887000
 (NB- the Ohwi 1962 source cited is at 
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bunruichiri/20/1/20_KJ2992741/_pdf/-char/en
 but I do not find "ankee" in the text)


On Sat, Jul 13, 2024 at 12:36 PM Don Osborn 
mailto:d...@milletsalliance.org>> wrote:
The millet-of-the-month calendar features barnyard millet(s) in July. As we 
know, this is a complex of wild, gathered, and cultivated species in the genus 
Echinochloa.

While looking up some material, I came across some older discussions of this 
group in which there was mention of "ankee" or "ankee millet." In particular, 
three publications, using similar text and the same drawings, from 1899-1901 
(at the time of these publications, what we now know as Echinochloa was 
classified as Panicum),./1/2/3 These evidently concerns an Echinochloa species, 
likely a variety of E. crus-galli, that is very tall and grown mostly in wetter 
or inundated soils.

Ank

Re: [Collab] [External Email]Re: Ankee or 'anki, a Mojave barnyard millet?

[Brenner, David (CTR) - REE-ARS via Collab]

Thanks Don!

I never emailed P.W. Michael about the Echinochloa progenitor species situation 
in the Flora of North America.

Maybe today.

David

From: Collab  on behalf of Don Osborn 

Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2024 11:46 AM
To: Brenner, David (CTR) - REE-ARS 
Cc: collab@lists.millets2023.space 
Subject: Re: [Collab] [External Email]Re: Ankee or 'anki, a Mojave barnyard 
millet?

Thank you, David, this information is appreciated.

It would be amazing if after over a century, accessions of the tall 'anki had 
somehow been maintained in USDA's holdings (thru growing and harvesting at 
intervals?), but not expected.

I find it interesting that Casteller and Bell mention a lost semi-cultivated 
grain plant called in the Mojave language "ankithi." The superficial similarity 
with the "anki" that has been identified as an Echinochloa (E. crus-galli) 
makes me wonder if the word composition points to a resemblance in form or 
habitat. But that's pure speculation.

All the best,

Don

DO, EL, MI, US
NAMA


On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 11:27 AM Brenner, David (CTR) - REE-ARS 
mailto:david.bren...@usda.gov>> wrote:
Don,

We have one accession of domesticated Panicum hirticaule in the US National 
plant Germplasm System (PI 654448) and could accession more if someone has them.
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=1705671

We have diverse wild and grain Echinochloa but I think none that exactly match 
the description below.

David Brenner
NC7


From: Collab 
mailto:collab-bounces@lists.millets2023.space>>
 on behalf of Don Osborn 
mailto:d...@milletsalliance.org>>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2024 10:05 AM
To: collab@lists.millets2023.space 
mailto:collab@lists.millets2023.space>>
Subject: [External Email]Re: [Collab] Ankee or 'anki, a Mojave barnyard millet?


And another follow-up:

In response to an email to him, Dr. Gary Nabhan - who early in his career was 
key to locating ongoing cultivation of a Panicum hirticaule cultivar in Sonora, 
Mexico/9 - kindly indicated an older key reference on Native American 
agriculture and food in the lower Colorado and Gila River valleys - Edward 
Castetter and Willis Bell's 1951 "Yuman Indian Agriculture."/10 Among the 
information in that volume are mentions and a brief discussion of use and 
management of Echinochloa crus-galli by not only the Mohave, but also 
neighboring Native American peoples - the Yuma, Cocopa, and Maricopa.

Basically, E. crus-galli - again in the Mojave language, 'anki - was managed in 
tidal areas of the rivers, with the grain used for food. (Of course, the main 
staple being varieties of corn.) There was also mention of E. colona. (In 
literature on barnyard millet, E. crus-galli is indicated as the wild form of 
the domesticated E. esculenta, or Japanese [barnyard] millet, and E. colona the 
source for the domesticated E. frumentacea, or Indian barnyard millet - but 
apparently that's still a matter of discussion.) There is also mention of 
Panicum hirticaule.

Interestingly, I found no mention by Castetter and Bell of the tall (7 ft.) 
variety of "ankee" described in the 1899 USDA publications cited earlier./1/2 
Was this variety lost to the Mohave and their neighbors? Have any accessions 
been maintained by any USDA station?

The flow of the Colorado River and the agro-ecology of the region described in 
the book changed markedly after the completion of the Hoover Dam (or Boulder 
Dam, as it was referred to in the book) in 1935  Basically the seasonal 
flooding of riverine areas that supported traditional agriculture and 
subsistence strategies ceased,

DO, EL, MI, US
NAMA

Notes (numbering cont'd):
9. See discussion and references under "PANICUM HIRTICAULE or P. SONORUM" in my 
post to this list on 30 Oct. 2022 
https://lists.millets2023.space/pipermail/collab/2022-October/90.html
10. Castetter, Edward F., and Willis H. Bell, Yuman Indian Agriculture : 
Primitive Subsistence on the Lower Colorado and Gila Rivers, University of New 
Mexico Press, 1951. The full text of this book is accessible online at 
https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/006771195




On Sat, Jul 13, 2024 at 1:22 PM Don Osborn 
mailto:d...@milletsalliance.org>> wrote:
A very quick follow up. FIrst of all, erratum in the previous posting: the year 
of publication for Thomas Williams' bulletin on millets was 1899, not 1988.

Also, whatever the fate of the Mohave 'anki millet, the "ankee" or "ankee 
millet" name persist. It figures in Elaine Nowick's nice compilation on common 
names for plants in the Great Plains./7 One also encounters it in various 
webpages dealing with barnyard millet outside of North America, including one 
at the Atlas of Living Austraila, that associates the name with E. esculentis./8

Anyway, "ankee" is part of the vocabulary of millets, which I didn't even know 
until yesterday.

Best to all,

Don

DO, EL, MI, US
NAMA

Notes (numbering c

Re: [Collab] [External Email]Re: Ankee or 'anki, a Mojave barnyard millet?

[Brenner, David (CTR) - REE-ARS via Collab]

Don,

The introduction to Echinochloa in FNA has E. frumentaceae derived from wild E. 
crus-galli and E. esculenta from wild E. colona. Which makes perfect sense from 
how the plants look, but conflicts with the scientific literature.  I hope that 
Dr. Michael will reply with more thoughts on the topic.

David Brenner

From: Collab  on behalf of Don Osborn 

Sent: Friday, July 19, 2024 9:36 AM
To: Brenner, David (CTR) - REE-ARS 
Cc: collab@lists.millets2023.space 
Subject: Re: [Collab] [External Email]Re: Ankee or 'anki, a Mojave barnyard 
millet?

You're welcome, David, altho I'm just posing questions. Any further information 
you can get would be most appreciated.

Re the Flora of North America that you mention, I see online this page on the 
genus Echinochloa: http://floranorthamerica.org/Echinochloa . I found this 
passage interesting:
"In North America, the most abundant species appears to be the introduced, 
weedy Echinochloa crus-galli, which closely resembles the native E. muricata. 
The confusion between the two species has caused them to be treated as the same 
species. This confusion is probably reflected in the mapping of both E. 
crus-galli and E. muricata. Echinochloa frumentacea and E. esculenta are grown 
for grain in India and in China and Japan, respectively, but not in North 
America."

Regarding the native E. muricata - sometimes called American barnyard grass - a 
search came up with a number of flora pages on this species from around the US. 
The Native Plant Trust, which focuses on New England, has a page on it at 
https://gobotany.nativeplanttrust.org/species/echinochloa/muricata/ with this 
interesting statement:
"Archaeological evidence suggests that the plant was used prehistorically for 
thatching and matting and the seeds were possibly used for food."

E. muricata is definitely found in the SW US - see 
https://swbiodiversity.org/seinet/taxa/index.php?taxon=1715&clid=2887 - so 
presumably also in the Mohave lands. No idea whether it had any importance to 
the people indigenous to that area. However and whenever E. crus-galli came to 
that area, however, one imagines that by its similarity to E. muricata, it 
would not have been an unusual addition to the flora.

Sorry, straying into speculation again, but it seems like there's a very 
interesting story here.

Strictly back on the botanical level, it would be interesting to know whatever 
you may learn from Dr. P.W. Michael.

Thanks in advance,

Don

DO, EL, MI, US
NAMA


On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 1:48 PM Brenner, David (CTR) - REE-ARS 
mailto:david.bren...@usda.gov>> wrote:
Thanks Don!

I never emailed P.W. Michael about the Echinochloa progenitor species situation 
in the Flora of North America.

Maybe today.

David

From: Collab 
mailto:collab-bounces@lists.millets2023.space>>
 on behalf of Don Osborn 
mailto:d...@milletsalliance.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2024 11:46 AM
To: Brenner, David (CTR) - REE-ARS 
mailto:david.bren...@usda.gov>>
Cc: collab@lists.millets2023.space 
mailto:collab@lists.millets2023.space>>
Subject: Re: [Collab] [External Email]Re: Ankee or 'anki, a Mojave barnyard 
millet?

Thank you, David, this information is appreciated.

It would be amazing if after over a century, accessions of the tall 'anki had 
somehow been maintained in USDA's holdings (thru growing and harvesting at 
intervals?), but not expected.

I find it interesting that Casteller and Bell mention a lost semi-cultivated 
grain plant called in the Mojave language "ankithi." The superficial similarity 
with the "anki" that has been identified as an Echinochloa (E. crus-galli) 
makes me wonder if the word composition points to a resemblance in form or 
habitat. But that's pure speculation.

All the best,

Don

DO, EL, MI, US
NAMA


On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 11:27 AM Brenner, David (CTR) - REE-ARS 
mailto:david.bren...@usda.gov>> wrote:
Don,

We have one accession of domesticated Panicum hirticaule in the US National 
plant Germplasm System (PI 654448) and could accession more if someone has them.
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=1705671

We have diverse wild and grain Echinochloa but I think none that exactly match 
the description below.

David Brenner
NC7


From: Collab 
mailto:collab-bounces@lists.millets2023.space>>
 on behalf of Don Osborn 
mailto:d...@milletsalliance.org>>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2024 10:05 AM
To: collab@lists.millets2023.space 
mailto:collab@lists.millets2023.space>>
Subject: [External Email]Re: [Collab] Ankee or 'anki, a Mojave barnyard millet?


And another follow-up:

In response to an email to him, Dr. Gary Nabhan - who early in his career was 
key to locating ongoing cultivation of a Panicum hirticaule cultivar in Sonora, 
Mexico/9 - kindly indicated an older key reference on Native American 
agriculture and food in t