wi-fi ZD1211
Is it possible to use external usb devices like zydas wi-fi usb doungle? Or not in this version of kernel in neo1973? *As of Linux 2.6.18, the kernel includes a driver for ZD1211 ZD1211B hardware* ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Maemo gps APIs
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Andrew Flegg in #maemo pointed me to http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowToUseGPSFrameworkInOS2007, which looks seriously sweet. Mickey hinted that libgpsmgr and libgpsbt might be present in the form of dbus services on the neo. Would FIC/openmoko consider reusing the maemo bits, or do you have equally sweet frameworks already present? regards, Koen -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFphPaMkyGM64RGpERArzdAJ91zgwZTOaK6zcH7NNYAiQVyTWbzQCfRHmP Vgj48rEv08CGBxDL77YoWfc= =Mx+y -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: wi-fi ZD1211
On Thursday 11 January 2007 11:28, xnike wrote: Is it possible to use external usb devices like zydas wi-fi usb doungle? Or not in this version of kernel in neo1973? *As of Linux 2.6.18, the kernel includes a driver for ZD1211 ZD1211B hardware* Neo uses 2.6.17.14 I think. You can use USB devices, but only they can power themselves. pgpr1ZDPlHUe8.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Will it possible to use the Neo without battery?
Well, I'm looking to the internal sd card rather like to an additional hdd in my desktop, which can be upgraded any time if needed. That's good and I like it. But actually the other use case for SD card reader on a PDA or such is to transfer large amount of data to it from other device (like digital camera, which cannot comunicate itself) e.g. for viewing pictures. In this case you may want to exchange the card several times within 1-2 hours. And then it is really annoying. The solution I see is a small card reader i will have with me in case i expect this kind of usage. Attila Jeremy wrote: For me this appears to be just an annoyance issue. I wouldn't think the typical user would switch out the sd card all that much, especially if there is an interface via usb to upload/download data to/from the sd storage. At least, I don't see why I would be removing it much unless I wanted to swap it with somebody else's. If using sdio I think there are more things to consider. ~Jeremy - Original Message From: Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jeremy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 3:54:11 PM Subject: Re: Will it possible to use the Neo without battery? I thought the issue was that you would have to physically remove the batter= y to change it, in which case everything in SDRAM would be gone. Is this n= ot the case? I haven't read everything that's come through the list so I m= ay have missed something.=0A=0A~Jeremy=0A=0A- Original Message =0A= I meant to say I'd expect all of flash to still be there. Sorry... On restarting apps... I've been assuming that the startup would not be substantially worse than logging into a desktop (with several apps in my session there). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community . ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Apple iPhone
On 1/10/07, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/01/07, Attila Csipa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Conceptually very similar to the FIC1973, with of course the added Apple candy and design team efforts. I wonder how the FIC1973's graphics capabilities will compare - all the slick XGL style swooshing around and zooming in makes the multitouch interface really 'wow!' Think of it this way though - we get the best of both worlds - a stable UI foundation means that we can prototype and build whatever swooshing interfaces we want in specific applications we want (e.g. one for mapping, a different one for IM), whilst still using more traditional widely understood metaphors for the day-to-day stuff like dialing. Things like 'point click', 'copy paste', 'trashcan', 'drag drop' are now so obvious to us, that it's easy to forget how revolutionary these computing metaphors ever were -- the point is that the optimal metaphors do build upon their 'simple' ancestors.. and that isn't so much a property of your design team, but emergence/evolution. With OpenMoko, I believe we'll be able to leverage from these emergent forces precisely because it is (will be!) open and the UI does not lock us into highly speculative UI design pattern, which always have more potential to become an evolutionary dead end. In a year after release we will probably have two things: 1) Tried and tested new UI paradigms/metaphors. 2) A Neo (released or in the works) which can provide all the 'eye candy' decoration to those paradigms which we would ever need - assuming we run into graphical limitations in the first place. Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Maemo gps APIs
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Koen Kooi schreef: Hi, Andrew Flegg in #maemo pointed me to http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowToUseGPSFrameworkInOS2007, which looks seriously sweet. Mickey hinted that libgpsmgr and libgpsbt might be present in the form of dbus services on the neo. After some asking around: Would FIC/openmoko consider reusing the maemo bits, yes or do you have equally sweet frameworks already present? v1 will be delivered pretty 'bare', but FIC (and the community!) will work on these things as soon as the device is out. regards, Koen -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFpj8aMkyGM64RGpERAm1/AJ4kc3N7kH7e64C3U+er2Wnu9SCR/ACgo4pv FWRaItsp1ygNeIbhIYP9lbY= =4fUy -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: suggested development toolkit for games?
On 1/10/07, Sven Neuhaus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Richard Franks wrote: In terms of retro gaming though, it's the perfect platform for 2d games: Unfortunately, in the last 4 years of using a Sony Ericsson P800 phone I've learned that there're only a handful of decent games (genres) that can be played well without 5+ hardware buttons (two aren't enough). Unless it's because a hardware limitation on the touchscreen interface, I'd have to disagree. When I say retro, I'm thinking of all the Spectrum/Commodore 64/Amiga games which worked beautifully with five inputs - up/down/left/right/fire with a non-analogue joystick. A 64x64 (resizeable/semi-transparent?) directional input square (on bottom right or bottom left corner) should be big enough with a stylus to provide directional input, and fits into the joystick/joypad physical limitations. This also leaves the option of interpreting input as analogue, although the platforms mentioned above provided over a decade of excellent games with just those simple digital inputs. In fact, digital inputs makes multiplayer a *lot* easier - each game round can map the player input into only 5 bits.. which can be reduced with a 3 bit time-offset if the game allows for retroactive application of 'world transmittable' events - in most cases ~1/5 of a second is an acceptable maximum lag. If bandwidth is less of an issue then you can trade that off for more CPU cycles. Either way, there is a lot of development flexibility with only 5 digital inputs. I haven't looked into Bluetooth networking too much, but if it could be used for multiplayer games, then you've got a *very* attractive platform for gamers - upload games to friends for free + start playing. Fun still beats out the 'wow factor' - case in point: GTA on the PSP. If the digital input/stylus idea doesn't work, then there are still options: http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20050602/green_01.shtml http://www.rav.efbnet.com/1w1b2/results.html Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Real Neo1973 photo?
On 1/10/07 8:53 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the pointer. Good overview article to refer to when my very slightly technical friends say what is this OpenMoko thing I keep hearing about? Thanks! Sean must be tired in the picture. It looks like his eyes are closed. Too much traveling? :-) Let's just put it this way, I so busy that I don't even have time for jetlag ;-) Don't think it said so, but I presume that interview was at CES? Yes. Sean, when you have time, I'd be interested in hearing about how the Neo was received at CES, although we know that CES is an important though somewhat artificial venue. Did you hear any interesting comments? I would expect that hackers like us were ready to pre-order on the spot. I talked with a lot of interesting people over the past four days. The single thing that stood out the most is how many people compared us to the iPhone. On the one hand, I'm still blushing from being compared to a company of that caliber. But on the other hand, I find the comparison unexpected. Don't get me wrong, they are quite interesting. Personally I just thought of the Neo1973 as sort of the anti-iPhone. Even though I've only seen pictures, I'm sure Apple will have an incredible UI. But likewise, I'm sure it's going to be a closed system like the iPod. So even though Apple's phone might be very elegant phone, its going to be more of the same stuff that (IMHO) has held the mobile industry back -- namely the lack of an open ecosystem for developers. What really excites me now is how we can work together to make OpenMoko even more innovative. We'll be four months into collaborative development before the public even gets an iPhone. And judging from the ideas / comments that have been flying around this list for the past few months, I don't see any reason why, together, we can come up with some applications that allow people to use phones in entirely new ways. Once we have phones shipping, I would love to start a conversation with all of you about how to organize and support this effort. I promise to put resources where my mouth is ;-) -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Will it possible to use the Neo without battery? Re: Vegas
On 1/10/07 11:39 AM, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 10 Jan 2007, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: I'm going to be in Vegas for another day now. Most of my work here is done this afternoon, so tomorrow I can relax a bit ;-) Then have fun ;-) And BTW I wish you and your team the best for this year: first, personal good wishes like health and happyness (beside OpenMoko/Neo1973) for everyone - but also the best for your baby OpenMoko/Neo1973 ;) Thanks Robert. Health is something I really need to pay more attention to. I've been sick twice in a little over a month now. Usually I sick one a year :-( Ah, and my best wishes for all people here on the list, too :))) Of course with shipping the first Neo1973 it will become a good year - but whish you that all other things will be fine, as well I'll second that. Readings everyone's comments on this list is really the highlight of my day. We're quite close to getting this phone in your hands. At that point the fun can really begin. I'm really looking forward to seeing what all of you can do. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Apple iPhone
On 1/11/07, el jefe delito [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/11/07, Richard Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a year after release we will probably have two things: 2) A Neo (released or in the works) which can provide all the 'eye candy' decoration to those paradigms which we would ever need - So we shouldn't expect this hardware to be able to do the fun stuff? The qualifier was assuming we run into graphical limitations in the first place. :-) The user manual does have some interesting clues as to what the performance *should* be: http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/MobileSoC/ApplicationProcessor/ARM9Series/S3C2410/2410UserManual.pdf Although the S3C2410 is at the core of the Neo1973, until we start experimenting with the SoC and integrated components in hardware, I think we are in speculation land, based upon the premise In theory there is no difference between theory and reality - in reality, there is. But I did a lot of optimisation for 8bit/16bit games as a kid, and as the Neo1973 is far more powerful than those platforms, I am confident we can find ways to exceed expectations which may arise from a simple comparison between the phone specs and modern desktop systems! Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Multi Touch screen demonstration video
Had to dig through a month of sent mail to find this: interesting demonstration of multi-touch screen manipulations. I have another similar one, but it's even further into the pile Jeff Han is a research scientist for New York University's Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences. Here, he demonstrates-for the first time publicly-his intuitive, interface-free, touch-driven computer screen, which can be manipulated intuitively with the fingertips, and responds to varying levels of pressure. (Recorded February 2006 in Monterey, CA. Duration: 09:32) (notice: includes embedded video) http://ted.com/tedtalks/tedtalksplayer.cfm?key=j_hanflashEnabled=1 Sam Kome http://www.motricity.com/ User Experience Team Member http://www.motricity.com/ www.motricity.com http://www.motricity.com view corporate video http://corp.motricity.com/press/video.php NOTICE: This e-mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information of Motricity. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. image001.gif Description: image001.gif ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: external add-ons?
On Thursday 11 January 2007 02:45, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: wifi-and-keyboard dock-like item. I would imagine that these peripherals would be almost as popular as the phone, as they would extend its functionality quite a lot. We'll be making a few...but since we're using standard USB there should be some interesting possibilities. Perhaps it would be interesting to have a sort of breakout box, with audio/video connectors, builtin powered USB, maybe wifi, serial ports, card reader, JTAG, etc (not saying that it should necessarily have all these at the same time, just writing ideas here). It would be significantly less bulky and likely cheaper than assembling these components 'by hand'. As somebody mentioned, it could be in a form of docking station. Or maybe the kits you're talking about already go in this direction ? :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iPhone vs. Neo1973 comparison
On 1/10/07 5:30 AM, Ole Tange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have created a comparison between iPhone and Neo1973: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/iPhone Very cool! Thanks for taking the time to do this. The only thing I found is that micro-SD can go to 2GB now. (Or that's what my vendors tell me.) -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iPhone Vs. Neo 1973
Michael, I fully agree. If anything, iPhone shows the mobile market where things are heading in terms of features and usability. This is a good thing and lays the ground for new ideas and competition. The important point for OpenMoko is that software usability and integration are absolutely key. Honestly, whether the device supports some spiffy hardware feature initially is secondary. A robust, usable, flexible, and open software stack is much more important for long- term success. That's the hard part but that is precisely where OpenMoko can shine. -- Terrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While it's interesting to compare the iPhone and the Neo 1973, I would caution people against spending too much time and energy trying to convert buyers of one to the other, or trying to prove that one is better than the other. They are different products aimed at different markets. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses, and probably neither is 100% perfect in any market. It's like trying to convince people to switch to Linux. If I were to replace the iMac in our living room with Linux, I would probably turn my family against Linux because of the little differences and inconsistencies. But, when a friend complained about fighting Windows viruses all the time, I quietly handed him an Ubuntu live CD (I always carry 2 or 3 with me), and now he's converted. When it's the wrong move, it upsets people, but when it's the right move, you don't have to push at all. I think it's interesting to know the differences, but I would never enter a debate with anyone as to which is better. There will be some uses for which one or the other is clearly more appropriate, but for most people it will be a highly subjective choice. It's almost like a religious debate, and I think just as pointless. A better use of our energy, I think, is to continue our excellent brainstorming about the software development environment, applications, and hardware. I think that some of Sean's comments in the networkworld article came right from discussions we've had on this list, and I think we should be proud of that. I think too our honest discussion of any weaknesses in the platform helps FIC decide what to do in future models. An overly-zealous ours is better point of view will make it harder to be honest about weaknesses. Likewise the software, especially since we can change it. I remain more excited about this project than any I've worked on in years. I can't wait to see what creative uses we'll come up with in the next year or so. We've had so many good ideas even before seeing the platform - imagine how many more we'll have with the source of our inspiration in hand. The fun is just begining. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community begin:vcard fn:Terrence Barr n:Barr;Terrence org:Sun Microsystems adr:;;Zettachring 10 A;Stuttgart;;70587;Germany email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded Community tel;work:+49 711 720 98185 url:http://www.mobileandembedded.com version:2.1 end:vcard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: external add-ons?
Attila Csipa wrote: On Thursday 11 January 2007 02:45, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: wifi-and-keyboard dock-like item. I would imagine that these peripherals would be almost as popular as the phone, as they would extend its functionality quite a lot. We'll be making a few...but since we're using standard USB there should be some interesting possibilities. Perhaps it would be interesting to have a sort of breakout box, with audio/video connectors, builtin powered USB, maybe wifi, serial ports, card reader, JTAG, etc (not saying that it should necessarily have all these at the same time, just writing ideas here). It would be significantly less bulky and likely cheaper than assembling these components 'by hand'. As somebody mentioned, it could be in a form of docking station. Or maybe the kits you're talking about already go in this direction ? :) I don't think that it's so expensive. Those chips cost almost nothing: - A good usb/rs232 converter for ~5eur with tax. - You can rip out the internals of a simple SD card reader for ~6,5eur or even less. - The wifi stuff you can yse unmodified. It's on you, which one you buy... - Some MCU for 2-10eur where you can have SPI or whatever other fancy stuff you want Then get a hub chip, make some PCB and nice box for it... It can be done and the components are not expensive. But it's not for everybody and takes some time to make it working and look somehow at the same time. Well, it there will be something like that on the market, I'll buy one. If not, I'll make one and maybe publish some docs/howtos.. Attila ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Kingmax announces microSDHC 4G card
Are there actual protocol differences with SD HC or does it just mean you need FAT32 support to use this card? On 1/11/07, Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.mobile-review.com/news.php?language=en#news12096 Any chance to use those with the Neo? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iPhone vs. Neo1973 comparison
Sean Moss-Pultz schrieb: On 1/10/07 5:30 AM, Ole Tange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have created a comparison between iPhone and Neo1973: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/iPhone Very cool! Thanks for taking the time to do this. The only thing I found is that micro-SD can go to 2GB now. (Or that's what my vendors tell me.) 2GB is great news. I thought this was a limitation of the Samsung s3c2410 SoC? Anyway, so are you confirming that Bluetooth is of the 2.0 variety as stated on the Wiki? Does this mean 2.1 Mbit/s? Can the Neo1973 establish more than one bluetooth connection at a time (e.g. keyboard + headset)? Thanks, -Sven ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Real Neo1973 photo / Neo delayed...!?
On 1/11/07 1:06 PM, Sven Neuhaus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have two more kits that will be available (in addition to the standard kit): A Car Kit and a Hacker's Lunchbox. Car kit? Please tell me it includes car navigation software... :) This screen (not to mention the GPS) is just screaming for maps to display. We have this stuff, but I didn't think to use it for the first release of OpenMoko. The rendering engine is totally closed source, expensive, and the maps are even more expensive. If there's enough interest, it might be cool to just sell the mapping data and see if we can support an open source mapping engineer. Is this something people would pay for? -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
About the openness of the iPhone
I made a comment last night about thinking the iPhone would not be open. Just so I don't sound like another person speculating, here's it coming from the horse's mouth: It isn't OS X proper, as you'd expect. And like an iPod, it won't be an open system that people can develop for. Remember, this is both an iPod and a Phone. Source: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/macworld2007/gizmodo-iphone-hands-on-part-deux-wh y-isnt-it-white-and-other-questions-227575.php -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Lightweight 'navigational' app? (Was Re: Real Neo1973 photo / Neo delayed...!?)
Sven Neuhaus wrote: Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: We have two more kits that will be available (in addition to the standard kit): A Car Kit and a Hacker's Lunchbox. Car kit? Please tell me it includes car navigation software... :) This screen (not to mention the GPS) is just screaming for maps to display. We were chewing this one over at work the other day. If you could pull a list of waypoints from (say) Google's mapping API, and location data from the GPS it might be possible to get something really useful without the heavy map data or rendering engines. Obviously I've done zero research on this one yet, but it sounds reasonable from a pure handwave level. We've got a data connection - use it! ;-) -P ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Real Neo1973 photo / Neo delayed...!?
Am Freitag, 12. Januar 2007 00:01 schrieb Sean Moss-Pultz: If there's enough interest, it might be cool to just sell the mapping data and see if we can support an open source mapping engineer. Is this something people would pay for? -Sean Of course they would do so. Everybody who's paying 350$ for an open-source phone knows about opensource and it's meaning. So he (or even she) will understand that costs aren't for the software itself, but for the mapping data. And then he'll pay for that, just like for maps for car-navigation-systems or something like that. Greetings, Fabian ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: external add-ons?
On Thursday 11 January 2007 19:56, Atlasz wrote: significantly less bulky and likely cheaper than assembling these components 'by hand'. As somebody mentioned, it could be in a form of It can be done and the components are not expensive. But it's not for everybody and takes some time to make it working and look somehow at the same time. Exactly, that's why I said that _assembling_ the whole stuff would be cheaper, not the components :) Not to mention the bulk/QoM factor. Only a handful of people would likely venture to do such a thing by themselves (even with part lists and PCB sketches), and while it would likely get on hw-hack-of-the-day or even slashdot, it would IMHO likely make zero impact on global OpenMoko and/or Neo1973 acceptance even among developers. That's where a hardware vendors support comes handy - as you yourself said you would consider it even if you could build it yourself (same goes for the whole OpenMoko story, it's not about the pretty high number of linux/hw hackers, who could, in theory, given enough time, make a linux powered/assisted GSM phone, but about the uncomparably lower number of people who actually DID invest their experience, time and last but not least, money, to bring this project to life). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Lightweight 'navigational' app? (Was Re: Real Neo1973 photo / Neo delayed...!?)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Bohme schreef: Sven Neuhaus wrote: Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: We have two more kits that will be available (in addition to the standard kit): A Car Kit and a Hacker's Lunchbox. Car kit? Please tell me it includes car navigation software... :) This screen (not to mention the GPS) is just screaming for maps to display. We were chewing this one over at work the other day. If you could pull a list of waypoints from (say) Google's mapping API, and location data from the GPS it might be possible to get something really useful without the heavy map data or rendering engines. Obviously I've done zero research on this one yet, but it sounds reasonable from a pure handwave level. We've got a data connection - use it! ;-) As mentioned before: http://gnuite.com:8080/nokia770/maemo-mapper/ check the link to driving directions regards, Koen -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFpsoKMkyGM64RGpERAtiPAJsE+TNap/OvoQd46Oh5EArfBMTNOACfTtW5 uaXl3K3+dDUcJac0m3qmn8Q= =8fmw -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Real Neo1973 photo / Neo delayed...!?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sean Moss-Pultz schreef: On 1/11/07 1:06 PM, Sven Neuhaus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have two more kits that will be available (in addition to the standard kit): A Car Kit and a Hacker's Lunchbox. Car kit? Please tell me it includes car navigation software... :) This screen (not to mention the GPS) is just screaming for maps to display. We have this stuff, but I didn't think to use it for the first release of OpenMoko. The rendering engine is totally closed source, expensive, and the maps are even more expensive. If there's enough interest, it might be cool to just sell the mapping data Raster or vector, and with or without address data? and see if we can support an open source mapping engineer. Thank $deity we have proj-4, gdal and gpsbabel :) Is this something people would pay for? *raises hand* regards, Koen, who successfully completed a geo-informatics minor -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFpsqGMkyGM64RGpERAhm0AJ4lpzXjAFlQmm+lP/ckGkW8TehrvwCeOIWt Goelm613qyLl/r+nM9MurC8= =cx8m -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Real Neo1973 photo / Neo delayed...!?
On 1/11/07 3:38 PM, Koen Kooi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If there's enough interest, it might be cool to just sell the mapping data Raster or vector, and with or without address data? This would be the raw stuff that companies like TomTom, Navigon, and Destinator, parse. I don't even know if they will let us license this for an totally open phone. We use it on other projects inside FIC. I've used Maemo Mapper but I don't know about the internals. Does anyone know if this would be useful? It really would be neat to have a open source engine with real (legal) mapping data. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Real Neo1973 photo / Neo delayed...!?
At Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:16:48 +0100, Fabian Off wrote: Am Freitag, 12. Januar 2007 00:01 schrieb Sean Moss-Pultz: If there's enough interest, it might be cool to just sell the mapping data and see if we can support an open source mapping engineer. Is this something people would pay for? -Sean Of course they would do so. Everybody who's paying 350$ for an open-source phone knows about opensource and it's meaning. So he (or even she) will understand that costs aren't for the software itself, but for the mapping data. And then he'll pay for that, just like for maps for car-navigation-systems or something like that. Or he will create open source mapping data: http://www.openstreetmap.org/ ;-) Jeroen Dekkers ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Real Neo1973 photo / Neo delayed...!?
On Friday 12 January 2007 00:00, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: We have this stuff, but I didn't think to use it for the first release of OpenMoko. The rendering engine is totally closed source, expensive, and the maps are even more expensive. If there's enough interest, it might be cool to just sell the mapping data and see if we can support an open source mapping engineer. Is this something people would pay for? I'm pretty certain they would (I happen to be a Mapserver contributor and make a living from OSS mapping projects). Data is the key here. The question is if you can get _adequate_ data at a price you can spread accross a solid number of units. First, not all vendors will be willing to (openly) give out their best quality data WITHOUT the engine, as it is obvious you will be using it with a different engine, OR they will ask an even higher price for it. Add to this proprietary data formats, inconsistent data sets, country specific projections, outdated sections, and you are in for quite a ride. Google maps spoiled us(ers) and made it look as it's easy, but in fact, it's pretty far from it, especially if a megacorp like Google or Microsoft does not absorb the data cost (and guess why the most often repeated legal warning in related EULAs is that under no circumstances is google maps (or, to be more precise, navteq/teleatlas) data allowed to be used for automotive or navigational purposes). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Real Neo1973 photo / Neo delayed...!?
On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 15:48 -0800, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: On 1/11/07 3:38 PM, Koen Kooi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If there's enough interest, it might be cool to just sell the mapping data Raster or vector, and with or without address data? This would be the raw stuff that companies like TomTom, Navigon, and Destinator, parse. I don't even know if they will let us license this for an totally open phone. We use it on other projects inside FIC. I've used Maemo Mapper but I don't know about the internals. Does anyone know if this would be useful? It really would be neat to have a open source engine with real (legal) mapping data. Maemo Mapper uses Raster maps. There is a project called openstreetmap.org in order to create free/open maps. For the quality of the output look here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Image:CentralChester.png Creating maps of your own area is easy. Go to http://www.openstreetmap.org/index.html , create a login, choose your area and click edit. There is a Java Applet with Yahoo sat imagery that lets you insert nodes, segments and streets. Its a bit like wikipedia - if enough people help there will be soon enough maps. Apart from that one can use vmap0 data (freely available) to create maps till ~1:1.000.000 paper equivalent which is at least good enough for navigation from village to village. Marcus ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Lightweight 'navigational' app? (Was Re: Real Neo1973 photo / Neo delayed...!?)
On Friday 12 January 2007 00:15, Paul Bohme wrote: Car kit? Please tell me it includes car navigation software... :) We were chewing this one over at work the other day. If you could pull a list of waypoints from (say) Google's mapping API, and location data from the GPS it might be possible to get something really useful without level. We've got a data connection - use it! ;-) The one little problem with that: Terms of Service for Google Maps ... Except where you have been specifically licensed to do so by Google, you may not use Google Maps with any products, systems, or applications installed or otherwise connected to or in communication with vehicles, capable of vehicle navigation, positioning, dispatch, real time route guidance, fleet management or similar applications. ... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
A Closed iPhone is an Opportunity
Howdy, all. (My first post to this list, and thanks for having me...) While we can't be entirely sure that the iPhone is a closed device - Apple may be waiting to spring something onto the world at WWDC, in May - all indications are that they regard the iPhone as a firmware device, as closed, locked down and fixed as an iPod. This has been reported on Gizmodo (as the earlier post stated) and by several other people, who have been asking questions directly to Apple's Developer Relations folks. If we take them at their word, we can only believe that they've been working a bit too hard, and a bit too long, on their lovely new toy. If they'd taken a look around - even just briefly - they'd have seen that the most fertile areas for mobile development are happening with third-party applications. Apple probably made the decision to restrict third-party development to web-based applications. Not an entirely unreasonable choice, if you consider that the mobile only looks outward, that it only cares about what's going on out on the net, and not what's going on within in it, on it, or (in the case of Bluetooth and Wifi) immediately proximal to it. Even if, as I now believe, Apple allows third-party developers to create Widgets for the iPhone, these Widgets are simply a combination of HTML and Javascript. They can do some interesting things - such as that sexy Google Maps demo - but they're still intrinsically bound to the world far beyond the device. If, say, you wanted to do something interesting with your address book, or your SMS history (and I can think of some very interesting things I could do with both of those), you're out of luck, because those files, data structures, etc., are all stored on the device - and you don't have access to the device itself. Is this a fatal mistake? No. But, what it is, for OpenMoko, is an incredible opportunity. FOSS projects rarely explode on the scene - Firefox is probably the only out-of-the-gate success story. What they do is grow in utility, usefulness, and userbase. Eventually, you have the little independent mobile phone retailers that dot all the cities in Australia (where I live) and Europe and the US all offering the FIC Neo1973 in their stores offering it as a high-end smartphone, to a select class of power users. Get 1% of that market (heh) and we'll be doing alright. And it can be done, because Apple simply *can't* do everything that users might want on their own. No company is big enough, bright enough, and fast enough to do it. If it were, we'd all be running Microsoft Vista. Cheers, Mark Pesce ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
