Re: An idea for an advertisement

[Martin Straub]

Sudharshan S schrieb:

Hi all,
I have an idea for an advertisement featuring Openmoko. Be gentle with
the flames though.
A dude dressed in t-shirt and jeans (deja-vu?), walks through a crowded
lane. Everyone except him are dressed in prison clothes and march in the
opposite direction with their "closed" phones, some of the guys look at
this "free" man and stare. To add to the effect we play an ambient
techno music and everything is white in colour. The man walks in front
of the camera, at that moment, gets a call, smiles and says "Hello
World...", We then fade into the "Free your phone" and "OpenMoko" thingy
as seen in the rocking youtube videos. If only I had a camera? =(. Of
course we could use the neos that are about to be shipped for the ad.
I am not sure if any ad similar to this has been done before, Comments
and flames?

Regards
Sudharshan S


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Another thought about advertising: what should the phone stand for ? 
Discussion in the various threads is very much centering around being 
open and "free".
BUT: is it that open for the end-user? There is an open development 
platform, which is beneficial. But what is the "open" point as perceived
by the customer. You can buy phones today and use them without a 
contract (prepaid). There are PDA (XDA) phones.


So what will be the point (the USP - unique selling point) ? Having or 
creating an USP is absolutely crucial in advertising. And the place of

being different by having white earphone leads is taken by iPod :-D .

Who will you be when owning / showing off / using a Neo1973. Or another 
Openmoko phone.


Things even get more complicated when thinking about the mixup between 
Neo1973 and Openmoko. WiIl we advertise a concept (Openmoko) or a 
product (Neo).

It crucial again to be clear about that.

There are a lot of issues and posibilities. Please comment, amend and 
discuss!


KR Martin


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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

[Ortwin Regel]

I like Invision but a properly managed phpBB is nice, too. Only had bad
experiences with the ones that weren't kept up to date.
What will happen if an official forum is being made? Are you prepared to
move all the content (and possibly software) over to the official servers?
Maybe we should try to get a response on how far off an official forum is.
I could do some basic moderating I guess.

Ortwin

On 7/21/07, Valerio Bruno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


i'm tired to read discussion about forum is good or bad.

i think is good:

- can be a central point for new users (users NOT developers)
- following a thread in a forum it's a lot simpler
- it can have email notification for reply
- could be a central point for developers too!
- other motivations said by other people..

So i'm going to create a forum.

Now, i can set up the forum but i'd need people who want to moderate,
and some graphics suggestions.

Do you prefer phpBB or Invision ? personally i prefer the former.

If anyone is doing/wants to do the same thing, please advice me (in ml
or private address); otherwise, who loves forum follows me. i'll wait
some days before start.

Valerio, Italy

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Re: Significant Numbers of Non-Developers?

[Ortwin Regel]

On 7/21/07, Mark Eichin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Giles Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On 20 Jul 2007, at 22:25, Ortwin Regel wrote:
>
>> Order #1833 here and not a developer at all. My last Linux
>> experience was that I changed the screen resolution in Suse 9 to
>> something that didn't work and wasn't able to change it back and
>> get back to the GUI. :P Still, I need this phone and I need it now.
>> It's the phone I've been waiting for for about four years. Pretty
>> much since I got my Tapwave Zodiac and wondered what would happen
>> if it was also a phone. I love to be an early adopter, even if it
>> takes time for stuff to get usable. This is just too fascinating to
>> wait any longer. I'll probably buy a GTA 02 in October, too, and
>> sell my GTA 01 or give it to one of my favourite Palm game
>> developers if I'm feeling generous.
>> I hope people will help me if I'm stuck in some scary command line. ;)
>>
>> Ortwin Regel
>
> No, you want the phone. :P
>
> At the moment it's not a fully working device, it will do very
> little. It will be frustrating to have a phone which does nothing. If
> you haven't ever had to flash a phone or use recovery methods to
> repair a bricked phone then you'll end up with a paperweight.
>
> I've not done much embedded development for a while, my background is
> in C development. I started on the Amiga and wrote some MIDI software
> such as MIDI drivers, audio output plugins. I did embedded
> development for a year, developing firmware for network hardware.
> Trust me, even I am a little nervous about having a Neo and not being
> able to contribute. So if you're not a developer you'll feel even
> more frustrated and impatient.
>
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This isn't early adopter - this is *pre* adopter - I'd suggest that
the 02 model is going to be early adopter, realistically...

I ordered one because I think I'm ready to do something useful with
it, because
  * I've already done some of the relevant code in python on my Nokia
6630 with an external GPS
  * I've done from-scratch build and installs for the Gumstix
  * embedded gcc/g++ used to be my full-time job (anyone remember Cygnus?
:-)
  * I've written code on an iCreate too
  * I've used an oscilliscope within the last 6 months...

Remember that the one recent live demo we've seen (on youtube, that
user's group meeting) involved several iterations of killing and
restarting daemons from a remote session on a laptop, and answering a
call with AT commands; while we *hope* it's a little more solid than
that, I'm expecting that to be part of the debugging to be done in the
first batch.

Remember also that this one doesn't have 802.11, so until you build
yourself a power+usbwifi lashup, it won't really count as a PDA either
(why yes, after about 2005 if it doesn't have net it's not really a PDA
:-)

(I'm also expecting to pick up a cheap pay-as-you go SIM for operating
the FIC with, since I actually still need to call and SMS people :-)

There's also some gadget-lust going on - I'd probably buy this phone
*without* a software install, if it had sufficiently documented
hardware, just because (esp. as an Amateur Radio operator) it's the
level of control I believe I *should* have of a piece of hardware that
I'm paying for.

It's pretty clear from this list that there are a lot of wildly
varying fantasies built up around the phone, but I don't think
anything we've heard officially that suggests that anyone for whom a
command line is "scary" is going to get any value out of it...

_Mark_ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The Herd Of Kittens

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Don't worry, I know exactly what I'm getting into. I am not absolutely
certain that I can handle it but I'm willing to try.



On 7/21/07, Jeff Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Ortwin, with such strong feelings, "I need this phone and I need it now",
you
must have certain specific requirements for putting it to use.  Certainly
we
all have our wish list with lots of far out ideas but what do you need to
phone to do first, to meet these four-year-pent-up demands, from before
the
OpenMoko even existed?  Basically you're speaking as someone frustrated
with
something in particular.

> I hope people will help me if I'm stuck in some scary command line. ;)

Certainly I'll help.  I'm hoping to produce a series of screencasts about
the
phone.  My first, just an overview for those wondering what the heck an
OpenMoko is that I gave last week at the local DFW Unix Users group, can
be
found at:

  http://www.showmedo.com/videos/video?name=104&fromSeriesID=104

I'm planning a talk on the hardware, and another on the underlying
software
archit

Re: I got charged ;) - me too

[Mark Arvidson]

Definately not in order number.  Maybe YES_I_DO response order?  Maybe just
random.  No charge at #1912.

On 7/21/07, Mark < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Me too, they've broke #2060.
> UPS doesn't ship on Saturday so lets hope this means a big truck full
> will be picked up on Monday.
>
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Re: 700Mhz Spectrum

[kenneth marken]

On Sunday 22 July 2007 06:16:35 Mischa Beitz wrote:
> Dean et al.,
>
> I had a very similar reaction to the 700MHz auction debate.
>
> It seems like a potentially incredible opportunity for openmoko,
> asterisk or any number of open platform wireless tech. The FCC is
> mandated by Congress to get this auction done quickly, but don't hold
> your breath; AT&T and other members of the telco/cable duopoly in
> broadband provision aren't going to sit by and let Google dictate
> auction terms to the FCC. Nevertheless, couldn't hurt to ask Google
> (and other potential auction winners) what they're going to do with it
> and how, if they get it.
>
> It'll happen awfully fast and it'd be great to see OpenMoko on top of
> things IF the FCC accepts some Open Access requirements for the spectrum.
>

for some reason im not expecting that to happen (the open access thingy).

also, even if it happens. this is only the usa. ok so its a big market, but 
does anyone know what that area of frequency is used for in other nations?

will a device that have the ability to transmitt on said frequency risk being 
illegal in other parts of the world?

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Re: 700Mhz Spectrum

[Mischa Beitz]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


Dean et al.,

I had a very similar reaction to the 700MHz auction debate.

It seems like a potentially incredible opportunity for openmoko,
asterisk or any number of open platform wireless tech. The FCC is
mandated by Congress to get this auction done quickly, but don't hold
your breath; AT&T and other members of the telco/cable duopoly in
broadband provision aren't going to sit by and let Google dictate
auction terms to the FCC. Nevertheless, couldn't hurt to ask Google
(and other potential auction winners) what they're going to do with it
and how, if they get it.

It'll happen awfully fast and it'd be great to see OpenMoko on top of
things IF the FCC accepts some Open Access requirements for the spectrum.

Best,

Mischa


Dean Collins wrote:
> 
>
> Great article here about the concept of open spectrum I posted a
> few weeks ago. Could be very very interesting.
>
> http://machinist.salon.com/blog/2007/07/20/google_fcc/
>
>
>
> Maybe an Asterisk/OpenMoko tie-in?
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> +1-212-203-4357 Ph +61-2-9016-5642
> (Sydney in-dial).
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> ___ OpenMoko community
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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

[Daniel Robinson]

The COGS on this phone should be around $100-110.  FIC will make money, but
won't make a lot of money unless they sell a lot of them.  They are
leveraging their expertise, manufacturing, and if they manufacture something
that doesn't sell, that is wasted manufacturing resources.

I think the business plan for them is to enable developers who want to make
a better phone/PDA than the pieces of crap on the market.  I had a Sony
Ericcsson phone on Cingular and I could create my own ring tones and down
load them.  I have a RAZR on T-Mobile and they will only let me buy
ringtones.  This is a brain dead phone/company combo.  If dev heads make a
better product (a product being a solution to a customer's problem) they
will sell phones.

--Dan

On 7/21/07, Giles Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



On 22 Jul 2007, at 01:13, Mickael Faivre-Macon wrote:

>
> By the way, does FIC plan to make money out of the neo ?
> Like selling manuals ? Or whatever ?

They'll make money on the hardware. Developing a good smartphone OS
costs quite a bit of money.



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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

[Giles Jones]

On 22 Jul 2007, at 01:13, Mickael Faivre-Macon wrote:



By the way, does FIC plan to make money out of the neo ?
Like selling manuals ? Or whatever ?


They'll make money on the hardware. Developing a good smartphone OS  
costs quite a bit of money.




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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

[Mickael Faivre-Macon]

On 7/22/07, Giles Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

The number of these users can me minimised by having a very good manual.



We can all start it and then publish it easily with a online publisher
like lulu.
http://www.lulu.com/
http://www.lulu.com/author/create.php

By the way, does FIC plan to make money out of the neo ?
Like selling manuals ? Or whatever ?

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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

[Giles Jones]

On 22 Jul 2007, at 00:31, Valerio Bruno wrote



By the way, in the long run we'll need a real, user-friendly forum  
to address

non-tech-friendly user.


The number of these users can me minimised by having a very good manual.

I know that people don't read manuals often but that's because  
troubleshooting sections are always stuck at the back. Have a special  
separate troubleshooting manual and they may read it.





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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

[Valerio Bruno]

Sebastian Krause <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 
> Not for me because it doesn't provide a threaded view, scoring
> etc. 

I don't understand your sentence. Forums haven't threaded view ?!
Anyway...


> And btw, you actually *can* already use this list as a web forum if
> you want, and actually in a really comfortale way:
> 
> http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community
> 
> So why splitting up everything into two worlds?


Well, I didn't mind that openmoko mailing lists would be recorded in gmane; i
admit that gmane interface is enough forum-like and comfortable for me. Why
don't you say it 50 messages ago? ;p

I've referred gmane web interfaces in Wiki:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Development_resources#Mailing_Lists
but it should be referred in mailing lists page too:
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/ 
so new users haven't to discover.

By the way, in the long run we'll need a real, user-friendly forum to address
non-tech-friendly user. 





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Another article at "The Inquirer"

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

The crew over at The Inquirer have posted another article about OpenMoko.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=41147

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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

[Torfinn Ingolfsen]

Sebastian Krause wrote:

"Torfinn Ingolfsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I guess asking for a forum <--> NNTP gateway would be asking too much?


No: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community


Hey, that was very nifty indeed!
Lets see if this is  a two-way gateway as well.
--
Torfinn Ingolfsen


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Re: Marketing...

[Mark Eichin]

Ted Lemon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Jul 20, 2007, at 5:10 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Maybe I stated the obvious, but I would like this phone to be a
>> success
>> and thats how i see it happening.. start with the basics...
>
> Like the iPhone, you mean?   :')
>
> Of course it would be great to be able to sync with Microsoft
> Exchange, and if someone takes that on it'll be great, but you can't
> legislate volunteer effort.   Something like that is a royal pain in
> the neck, so it probably won't happen if it's not funded.   If you
> care about it, you might want to take it on.
>
> But even if you don't, we have the example of the iPhone - you can
> sell at least a half million units without Exchange support!

Exactly.  I think there are a lot of people who don't sync their phone
with *anything* ... for example (and yes, the plural of anecdote is
not data) I back my nokia up to its mini-SD card, but I don't sync
it... after all, I don't need phone numbers anywhere but my phone!

I'm basically going to arrange something to parse those vcards, and
that'll do; a todo/calendar app will probably use vcal, rss, and maybe
hiveminder (task.hm) since I've already got lots of code to talk to
them, and *that's* something usefully shared.  But that's where data
service and wifi come in...

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RE: OK, the forum is coming..

[Dean Collins]

Howard forums rock - so definitely a good location for it.

No offence to the OpenMoko guys but if it was important and they were
going to put up a forum then should have been done a while ago.



Regards,

Dean Collins
Cognation Pty Ltd
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
+1-212-203-4357 Ph
+61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam
Krikstone
Sent: Saturday, 21 July 2007 2:38 PM
To: OpenMoko
Subject: Re: OK, the forum is coming..

Werner hinted at an official forums.openmoko.org.  If people would just
want something temporary, I could probably get an FIC or Linux subform
created at  http://www.howardforums.com/ (500,000 members).  There are
developers and network engineers that post there that can result in
great threads; however, as a warning the overall userbase has become
younger over the years.  Regardless of age, I have not found a better
user resource if you want to do anything with a phone.  I'm amazed at
what people can create to get around current carrier restrictions.


Valerio Bruno wrote:
> i'm tired to read discussion about forum is good or bad.
>
> i think is good:
>
> - can be a central point for new users (users NOT developers)
> - following a thread in a forum it's a lot simpler
> - it can have email notification for reply
> - could be a central point for developers too!
> - other motivations said by other people..
>
> So i'm going to create a forum.
>
> Now, i can set up the forum but i'd need people who want to moderate,
> and some graphics suggestions.
>
> Do you prefer phpBB or Invision ? personally i prefer the former.
>
> If anyone is doing/wants to do the same thing, please advice me (in ml
> or private address); otherwise, who loves forum follows me. i'll wait
> some days before start.
>
> Valerio, Italy
>
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>   


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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

[Dylan McCall]

With news readers in mind, I have one wish for the forums: Really good
syndication, either with RSS or Atom feeds.

On 7/21/07, Adam Krikstone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Werner hinted at an official forums.openmoko.org.  If people would just
want something temporary, I could probably get an FIC or Linux subform
created at  http://www.howardforums.com/ (500,000 members).  There are
developers and network engineers that post there that can result in great
threads; however, as a warning the overall userbase has become younger over
the years.  Regardless of age, I have not found a better user resource if
you want to do anything with a phone.  I'm amazed at what people can create
to get around current carrier restrictions.


Valerio Bruno wrote:
> i'm tired to read discussion about forum is good or bad.
>
> i think is good:
>
> - can be a central point for new users (users NOT developers)
> - following a thread in a forum it's a lot simpler
> - it can have email notification for reply
> - could be a central point for developers too!
> - other motivations said by other people..
>
> So i'm going to create a forum.
>
> Now, i can set up the forum but i'd need people who want to moderate,
> and some graphics suggestions.
>
> Do you prefer phpBB or Invision ? personally i prefer the former.
>
> If anyone is doing/wants to do the same thing, please advice me (in ml
> or private address); otherwise, who loves forum follows me. i'll wait
> some days before start.
>
> Valerio, Italy
>
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>


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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

[Adam Krikstone]

Werner hinted at an official forums.openmoko.org.  If people would just want 
something temporary, I could probably get an FIC or Linux subform created at  
http://www.howardforums.com/ (500,000 members).  There are developers and 
network engineers that post there that can result in great threads; however, as 
a warning the overall userbase has become younger over the years.  Regardless 
of age, I have not found a better user resource if you want to do anything with 
a phone.  I'm amazed at what people can create to get around current carrier 
restrictions.


Valerio Bruno wrote:

i'm tired to read discussion about forum is good or bad.

i think is good:

- can be a central point for new users (users NOT developers)
- following a thread in a forum it's a lot simpler
- it can have email notification for reply
- could be a central point for developers too!
- other motivations said by other people..

So i'm going to create a forum.

Now, i can set up the forum but i'd need people who want to moderate,
and some graphics suggestions.

Do you prefer phpBB or Invision ? personally i prefer the former.

If anyone is doing/wants to do the same thing, please advice me (in ml
or private address); otherwise, who loves forum follows me. i'll wait
some days before start.

Valerio, Italy

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Re: An idea for an advertisement

[Andy Powell]

On Saturday 21 July 2007 08:18, Sudharshan S wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have an idea for an advertisement featuring Openmoko. Be gentle with
> the flames though.

I particularly liked the 'Hello World' part ... :D

I had something in mind that was rather simplistic but could easily form a 
series of ads :

Scene is set in a garage. Closeup of a mechanic trying to put the wheel nuts 
on, keeps dropping them, can't get them threaded etc camera zooms out  to 
reveal that the wheel is triangular..  

voiceover says:

 "Imagine having no choice. You wouldn't buy a car that took away your 
choice... ... would you?"

crossfade to openmoko logo + free your phone


Andy

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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

[Kyle Bassett]

On 7/21/07, Valerio Bruno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


i'm tired to read discussion about forum is good or bad.

i think is good:

- can be a central point for new users (users NOT developers)
- following a thread in a forum it's a lot simpler
- it can have email notification for reply
- could be a central point for developers too!
- other motivations said by other people..

So i'm going to create a forum.

Now, i can set up the forum but i'd need people who want to moderate,
and some graphics suggestions.

Do you prefer phpBB or Invision ? personally i prefer the former.

If anyone is doing/wants to do the same thing, please advice me (in ml
or private address); otherwise, who loves forum follows me. i'll wait
some days before start.

Valerio, Italy

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I have no problem moderating as well.  I prefer phpBB, since I have
experience with it.  We definitely need a forum to direct some of the more
user-base questions that way...  All for it.

Kyle
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Re: An idea for an advertisement

[Kyle Bassett]

I agree with Kent, the fundamental functionality needs to be rock solid.
OpenMoko isn't just representing "free phones", it also is representing
(embedded) Linux.  Before the consumer version is commercially advertised,
we need things like calling, SMS, and contact management.

On another note, since advertising is also very important, I feel ad
development should begin soon, and not wait until we need it.  See how it
goes...I like the idea.  Publish a *beta commercial.   We'll watch it.   :)

Kyle



On 7/21/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On Sat, Jul 21, 2007 at 11:08:47AM +0200, Martin Straub wrote:
[...]
> Anyway, Openmoko seems to become well-known without further action =-O
> The picture attached is from the weekend journal of a major Austrian
> newspaper ("Kurier").
>
> The text basically says:
>
> "The Openmoko platform is the basic element of a new series of mobile
> phones utilizing open source software.
> Hence you can adapt the software to your needs. The first mobile phone
> of this series is the Neo1973 which can be ordered for EUR 220".
>
> The price given is correct for Europe (w/o shipping).
>
> But I think before advertising there should be a product ready for the
> mass market, which obviously is not the case right now.
> I think we have some months left designing advertising campaigns.

Yes indeed.  At this point I'm beginning to seriously worry that there may
be
too *much* publicity, not too little.  Having our phone die because of a
backlash from unrealistic expectations would be a really bad thing.

There is a *large* population of users who are sick to death of phone
company
lock-in bullshit.  Our phone doesn't need a lot of advertising to succeed.
It doesn't even need a "killer-app" -- what it really needs, at the
beginning, is well-done basic cell phone functionality.  The initial set
of
applications should be simple and bullet-proof.  Given the open framework,
other things will come in time, but when the first consumer reviews come
in,
it will be death if they say "great idea, but I can't make a phone call,
and
the directory management was too awkward for me to figure out."

Kent


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I got charged ;) -me too!

[Kyle Bassett]

#2081, and I am in total suspense!

Kyle
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700Mhz Spectrum

[Dean Collins]

Great article here about the concept of open spectrum I posted a few
weeks ago. Could be very very interesting.

http://machinist.salon.com/blog/2007/07/20/google_fcc/

 

Maybe an Asterisk/OpenMoko tie-in?

 

 

Regards,

Dean Collins
Cognation Pty Ltd
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 +1-212-203-4357 Ph
+61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).

 

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Re: I got charged ;) - me too

[Jason]

I just got charged also, #2085, Shipping: $8.56 USD to Canada, can't wait :D

Jay M

Mark wrote:

Me too, they've broke #2060.
UPS doesn't ship on Saturday so lets hope this means a big truck full
will be picked up on Monday.

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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

[David Pottage]

On Saturday 21 July 2007, Valerio Bruno wrote:
> i'm tired to read discussion about forum is good or bad.
>
> i think is good:
>
> - can be a central point for new users (users NOT developers)
> - following a thread in a forum it's a lot simpler
> - it can have email notification for reply
> - could be a central point for developers too!
> - other motivations said by other people..
>
> So i'm going to create a forum.
Three cheers for that man.

I definitely think a forum is a good idea. I have been a list subscriber for 
the past 6 months or so, and just recently the traffic has got rather high. I 
shudder to think what it would be like in November with thousands of newbies 
out there asking questions.

I don't think we should close the list or the Wiki, just divert some of the 
newbee questions, and discussons of soft issues like advertising away from 
the list. Forums are also good because you can easily add links & embedded 
images.

Rather than having lots of stickys in each sub forum, I think it would be 
better to move HOW-TOs, FAQs etc to the Wiki, and then just have one sticky 
with links to them.

> Now, i can set up the forum but i'd need people who want to moderate,
> and some graphics suggestions.

I don't mind being a moderator. I won't have time to moderate all the time 
though.

> Do you prefer phpBB or Invision ? personally i prefer the former.

Personally I am familiar with phpBB, but not Invision, so that would be my 
preference.

-- 
David Pottage

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Re: Marketing... aGPS uses

[Joe Friedrichsen]

On 7/21/07, Krzysztof Kajkowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

2007/7/21, Adam Krikstone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> AGPS is where focus needs to be.  This natural (and free) comparative
> advantage needs to be developed to attract new developers and customers.
>
> 5. Auto sync location dependent - arrive at home wifi/bt turn on and
> attempt to sync, sync when movement is sensed in the morning
>

Hi! That's a wonderful list you made! I have one doubt though - how
well would that AGPS chip work, especially in buildings. I have Garmin
GPS which does not get signal reception if anything is between it and
GPS satellite so it does not work in my appartment or shows locations
with massive error.

Does anyone tested AGPS yet?


You can see it working inside a building (FIC headquarters) on
YouTube: http://youtube.com/watch?v=5D6i6vLlhGA

Joe

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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

[Sebastian Krause]

"Torfinn Ingolfsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I guess asking for a forum <--> NNTP gateway would be asking too much?

No: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community


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Re: Hooks in Base Code

[Clayton Jones]

Hi everybody,
Coming late into this discussion, but if i could put my 2 cents worth
(or whatever that is in euros these days..)...

I like the ideas presented here, but i have some experience designing
& building real time & embedded systems so some points to think about:

1) The Event Router should also have some sort of priority mechanism
to decide who gets the events first, otherwise it's whatever order
shakes out from order of registration + rule evaluation.  For example,
you might not want a bunch of other processes who happen to come first
on the notification list causing the gui to have a large lag time
between notification of incoming call and actual display on the screen
(or playing of ring tone, etc.).  We have to remember this is a phone
first and all other things second - the carrier network won't wait
while we figure out what to do with the call.

2) We have to be careful about race conditions in event notification
latency and order. Two examples:  a) one event causing a process to
generate an event which eventually circulates thru the system and ends
up generating the original event.  b) an event that, simply by
arriving at one process later than another, causes a series of events
or actions that conflict or feed one another causing endless event
generation or system hang.  Much of this is application-dependent, but
the Event Router could have some rules built-in to stop the event
chain if it sees things getting out of hand (e.g. the same event
generated 500 times in a second).

3) Finally, we have to keep in mind that this is a small-form factor,
battery-powered system - we'll always be behind on the power/resource
curve from our desktops, so we have to be aware of speed and
resources.  One of the things that absolutely drives me up a wall
about my Motorola Razr is the lag time between pressing keys and
seeing a response - especially in my address book or when pressing
"answer" for incoming call.  This frustration is one of the reasons i
can't wait to get my hands on a Neo  so i can make the phone behave
the way i want!  Also, FWIW, some friends of mine who've played with
an iPhone report that Apple seems to have paid attention to this as
well - they say they're impressed with how responsive the phone is.

Hopefully this all isn't so obvious that i get flamed for wasting
everyone's time

Cheers,
--clayton



On 7/21/07, Jim McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hans L wrote:
> Hey folks,
>
> Great discussion going on here.  I've been putting a lot of thought
> into the issue too, so I  figured I'd add my two cents.
[...]

Yep this is very similar to what I'm thinking of.  Given that we're all
pretty close to what we think we need it's probably time to put
something on the Wiki.  I've put an initial page at
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Extension_Framework so if people
can make any additions that they wish there it would be easier to track
and get us to the stage where we can get the buy-in of the openmoko team
and start laying down some code.

There are a few things that you mentioned here that I haven't yet
covered in the Wiki such as profiles, use of the configuration GUI and
the like so if you want to flesh them out on that page it would be much
appreciated.

Cheers,
Jim.


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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

[Sebastian Krause]

Valerio Bruno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> - following a thread in a forum it's a lot simpler

Not for me because it doesn't provide a threaded view, scoring
etc. There's nothing more comfortable than reading this list in your
favorite news reader by Gmane.

> - could be a central point for developers too!

I hope not because it horribly uncomfortable to read. I don't really
care which forum software you use, but then at least it should
provide a mailing list gateway for people who don't want to use a
forum.

And btw, you actually *can* already use this list as a web forum if
you want, and actually in a really comfortale way:

http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community

So why splitting up everything into two worlds?

Sebastian


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Re: Marketing... aGPS uses

[Torfinn Ingolfsen]

Hello,

On 7/21/07, Krzysztof Kajkowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi! That's a wonderful list you made! I have one doubt though - how
well would that AGPS chip work, especially in buildings. I have Garmin
GPS which does not get signal reception if anything is between it and
GPS satellite so it does not work in my appartment or shows locations
with massive error.

Does anyone tested AGPS yet?


Not tested, but I read on a Norwegian mobile phone news site about
someone with a Nokia phone with GPS. Recently Nokia had enabled the
AGPS functionality in the phone through a software update, and after
that this person was able to get a GPS fix inside his apartment.
Before (without AGPS) he hadn't been able to get a fix inside at all.
I guess it depends on the hardware.
--
Regards,
Torfinn

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Re: An idea for an advertisement

[kent]

On Sat, Jul 21, 2007 at 11:08:47AM +0200, Martin Straub wrote:
[...]
> Anyway, Openmoko seems to become well-known without further action =-O
> The picture attached is from the weekend journal of a major Austrian 
> newspaper ("Kurier").
> 
> The text basically says:
> 
> "The Openmoko platform is the basic element of a new series of mobile 
> phones utilizing open source software.
> Hence you can adapt the software to your needs. The first mobile phone 
> of this series is the Neo1973 which can be ordered for EUR 220".
> 
> The price given is correct for Europe (w/o shipping).
> 
> But I think before advertising there should be a product ready for the 
> mass market, which obviously is not the case right now.
> I think we have some months left designing advertising campaigns.

Yes indeed.  At this point I'm beginning to seriously worry that there may be
too *much* publicity, not too little.  Having our phone die because of a 
backlash from unrealistic expectations would be a really bad thing.

There is a *large* population of users who are sick to death of phone company
lock-in bullshit.  Our phone doesn't need a lot of advertising to succeed. 
It doesn't even need a "killer-app" -- what it really needs, at the
beginning, is well-done basic cell phone functionality.  The initial set of
applications should be simple and bullet-proof.  Given the open framework,
other things will come in time, but when the first consumer reviews come in,
it will be death if they say "great idea, but I can't make a phone call, and
the directory management was too awkward for me to figure out."

Kent


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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

[Torfinn Ingolfsen]

Hello,

On 7/21/07, Valerio Bruno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

i'm tired to read discussion about forum is good or bad.
Do you prefer phpBB or Invision ? personally i prefer the former.


I couldn't care less about which system to choose, but I have one
wish; make it as fast and usable as possible, nd make it work
flawlessly with Firefox and Opera.

I guess asking for a forum <--> NNTP gateway would be asking too much?
--
Regards,
Torfinn

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Re: Marketing...

[Torfinn Ingolfsen]

Hello,

On 7/21/07, Ted Lemon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Jul 20, 2007, at 4:25 PM, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
>> It speaks to exactly the problem that we will have marketing
>> OpenMoko: how to get Joe and Jane Average to think of the Open in
>> OpenMoko as something they care about.
>
> Don't do rthat then. As in "don't limit the marketing to only focus on
> the Open part". The Open part will only get to the people who are
> really, interested anyway.

I guess reading the article before commenting on it would be too much
to ask?


Well, I *did* read the article. I don't agree with the author. He
speaks of people's values - we should not focus too much on that,
instead we should focus on finding the next "must have" uses for the
phone. Values like "fair trade" are like fashions - they change every
three to six months.
IMHO.
--
Regards,
Torfinn

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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

[Jae Stutzman]

A quick search on google showed this:
http://www.midgard-project.org/discussion/developer-forum/forum-to-mailing_list_integration/

I think whatever official openmoko supported communication technique is used
needs to allow users the ability to choose how they access the information.
There is no reason ml and forums cannot access the same backend so that
users of the system can choose whether they want to communicate via ml or
forum.

My 2c

Jae
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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

[Dylan McCall]

I agree, a forum is a good idea! More organized and easier searched (without
putting that job entirely on the user's end) than a mailing list.

I prefer PHPbb, definitely. Invision is more fancy, but I am always seeing
those things screw up.

Bye,
-Dylan McCall

On 7/21/07, Valerio Bruno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


i'm tired to read discussion about forum is good or bad.

i think is good:

- can be a central point for new users (users NOT developers)
- following a thread in a forum it's a lot simpler
- it can have email notification for reply
- could be a central point for developers too!
- other motivations said by other people..

So i'm going to create a forum.

Now, i can set up the forum but i'd need people who want to moderate,
and some graphics suggestions.

Do you prefer phpBB or Invision ? personally i prefer the former.

If anyone is doing/wants to do the same thing, please advice me (in ml
or private address); otherwise, who loves forum follows me. i'll wait
some days before start.

Valerio, Italy

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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

Am 21.07.2007 um 16:46 schrieb Valerio Bruno:


i'm tired to read discussion about forum is good or bad.


Me too - it is not important if it is good or bad or forum vs. list.
It is important that there are enough community members who want to  
have it *in addition* to this list.



i think is good:

- can be a central point for new users (users NOT developers)
- following a thread in a forum it's a lot simpler
- it can have email notification for reply
- could be a central point for developers too!
- other motivations said by other people..


agreed!


So i'm going to create a forum.


Well, I would suggest to use the existing Open Embedded forum  
(previously this was the Zaurus User Group): www.oesf.org and ask to  
create new subsections there



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Re: I got charged ;) - me too

[Mark]

Me too, they've broke #2060.
UPS doesn't ship on Saturday so lets hope this means a big truck full
will be picked up on Monday.

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Re: I got charged ;)

[Peter Trapp]

FIC/openmoko did a create job :)

many persons (incl me) are waiting to get charged on their credit cards 
like a small child shortly before christmas...






Krzysztof Kajkowski schrieb:

...and shipping cost are LOWER than previously mentioned on the page:


Your credit card has now been charged by the following amount:

Subtotal: $300 USD
Shipping: $67.89 USD
Total: $367.89 USD

Please note that this amount might be less than what was originally
mentioned in the webshop, since we meanwhile got better shipping rates!

This means that we will now send out your order ASAP.

You will receive another status update once the order has been sent out.


Way to go OpenMoko!

cayco

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Re: I got charged ;)

[Giles Jones]

On 21 Jul 2007, at 16:06, Stefano Sanna wrote:


Originally it was 77USD. I'm in Italy.


Lucky man! ;-) My order # is 18xx and I'm still waiting for being  
charged.. :-(


I would imagine they are going through the "YES_I_DO" emails in the  
order they were received back.




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Re: I got charged ;)

[Stefano Sanna]

Marco Crociani - Tyrael wrote:

I got charged too!

Shipping: $54.22 USD
Originally it was 77USD. I'm in Italy.


Lucky man! ;-) My order # is 18xx and I'm still waiting for being 
charged.. :-(


Cheers,
Stefano.

--
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Personal web site: http://www.gerdavax.it
AIM: gerdavax - Skype: gerdavax - Callsign: IS0DZE

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OK, the forum is coming..

[Valerio Bruno]

i'm tired to read discussion about forum is good or bad.

i think is good:

- can be a central point for new users (users NOT developers)
- following a thread in a forum it's a lot simpler
- it can have email notification for reply
- could be a central point for developers too!
- other motivations said by other people..

So i'm going to create a forum.

Now, i can set up the forum but i'd need people who want to moderate,
and some graphics suggestions.

Do you prefer phpBB or Invision ? personally i prefer the former.

If anyone is doing/wants to do the same thing, please advice me (in ml
or private address); otherwise, who loves forum follows me. i'll wait
some days before start.

Valerio, Italy

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Re: I got charged ;)

[Marco Crociani - Tyrael]

I got charged too!

Shipping: $54.22 USD
Originally it was 77USD. I'm in Italy.

rt.internal 18xx

Bye!

2007/7/21, Krzysztof Kajkowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


2007/7/21, Peter Trapp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> what's your   rt.internal number ?
>
> waiting eagerly :)


It is #1921.

I forgot to tell that the sending costs are $30 lower than mentioned
in web shop (I'm from Poland).

cayco

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--
--
Marco Crociani - Tyrael
* Perchè usare Formati Aperti? - http://www.openformats.org
* Apri la mente, libera i tuoi pensieri. Usa Software Libero.
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Re: I got charged ;)

[Krzysztof Kajkowski]

2007/7/21, Peter Trapp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

what's your   rt.internal number ?

waiting eagerly :)



It is #1921.

I forgot to tell that the sending costs are $30 lower than mentioned
in web shop (I'm from Poland).

cayco

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Re: I got charged ;)

[Peter Trapp]

what's your   rt.internal number ?

waiting eagerly :)



Krzysztof Kajkowski wrote:

...and shipping cost are LOWER than previously mentioned on the page:


Your credit card has now been charged by the following amount:

Subtotal: $300 USD
Shipping: $67.89 USD
Total: $367.89 USD

Please note that this amount might be less than what was originally
mentioned in the webshop, since we meanwhile got better shipping rates!

This means that we will now send out your order ASAP.

You will receive another status update once the order has been sent out.


Way to go OpenMoko!

cayco

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Re: I got charged ;) - me too

[Ian Darwin]

Me too. Looks like they broke the logjam!

Ian

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I got charged ;)

[Krzysztof Kajkowski]

...and shipping cost are LOWER than previously mentioned on the page:


Your credit card has now been charged by the following amount:

Subtotal: $300 USD
Shipping: $67.89 USD
Total: $367.89 USD

Please note that this amount might be less than what was originally
mentioned in the webshop, since we meanwhile got better shipping rates!

This means that we will now send out your order ASAP.

You will receive another status update once the order has been sent out.


Way to go OpenMoko!

cayco

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Re: Hooks in Base Code

[Jim McDonald]

Hans L wrote:
> Hey folks,
>
> Great discussion going on here.  I've been putting a lot of thought
> into the issue too, so I  figured I'd add my two cents.
[...]

Yep this is very similar to what I'm thinking of.  Given that we're all
pretty close to what we think we need it's probably time to put
something on the Wiki.  I've put an initial page at
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Extension_Framework so if people
can make any additions that they wish there it would be easier to track
and get us to the stage where we can get the buy-in of the openmoko team
and start laying down some code.

There are a few things that you mentioned here that I haven't yet
covered in the Wiki such as profiles, use of the configuration GUI and
the like so if you want to flesh them out on that page it would be much
appreciated.

Cheers,
Jim.


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Re: An idea for an advertisement

[Alexander E Genaud]

Sudharshan,

I think that's a great idea. I wonder if it will bring up memories of
Apple's 1984 campaign and whether that would be a good or bad thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYecfV3ubP8

Cheers,
Alex
--
[ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ][ http://genaud.net ][ 55.67N 12.588E ]
[ B068 ED90 F47B 0965 2953  9FC3 EE9C C4D5 3E51 A207 ]


-- Videresendt meddelelse --
From: Sudharshan S <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 12:48:31 +0530
Subject: An idea for an advertisement
Hi all,
I have an idea for an advertisement featuring Openmoko. Be gentle with
the flames though.
A dude dressed in t-shirt and jeans (deja-vu?), walks through a crowded
lane. Everyone except him are dressed in prison clothes and march in the
opposite direction with their "closed" phones, some of the guys look at
this "free" man and stare. To add to the effect we play an ambient
techno music and everything is white in colour. The man walks in front
of the camera, at that moment, gets a call, smiles and says "Hello
World...", We then fade into the "Free your phone" and "OpenMoko" thingy
as seen in the rocking youtube videos. If only I had a camera? =(. Of
course we could use the neos that are about to be shipped for the ad.
I am not sure if any ad similar to this has been done before, Comments
and flames?

Regards
Sudharshan S


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FM receiver and Traffic Message Channel?

[Sebastian Krause]

Hello!

I'm wondering if there's an FM radio receiver built into the Neo1973
or any plan to include in the future. At least in the wiki pages I
could barely find information about that.

It would be interesting to be able to receive traffic information by
TMC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_Message_Channel) because
here in Germany that's totally free while other traffic information
by GSM etc might cost some money.

Of course eventually it would also be nice to receive digital radio
like DAB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Audio_Broadcasting)
or DRM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Radio_Mondiale). But I
suppose these days hardware chips for that are just too rare and
expensive right now to be included.

Sebastian


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Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45

[Jeff Rush]

Eric van Horssen wrote:
> 
> Have a look at what Harald wrote in his weblog on the 17th.
> FIC is a B2B not a B2C, I don't think they ever before sold directly to
> customers.
> So FIC can't provide them with any knowledge about B2C, this is just
> totally new for them

True, I saw that as well.  I was referring to why the guy hired for system
software was pulled into hardware, and then into designing the B2C site and
now into drawing the floorplans for office space and figuring how to route
power and network to cubicles.  Not quite the best use of his time, it seems,
and also something that a skilled office administrator team and a commercial
website design group, resources less rare than a good system programmer, would
normally take care of.

But I'm not trying to beat anyone up - I'm sure there are factors we're not
privy to.  I just hope that they'll obtain resources from FIC and perhaps ask
from our community before they burn out.  As several have said here on the
list, as they build our dream we'd love to support them in turn - they don't
have to do it all themselves.  The free/opensource philosophy also means being
able to call on the community.

-Jeff

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Re: Significant Numbers of Non-Developers?

[Jeff Rush]

Ortwin Regel wrote:
> Order #1833 here and not a developer at all. My last Linux experience
> was that I changed the screen resolution in Suse 9 to something that
> didn't work and wasn't able to change it back and get back to the GUI.
> :P Still, I need this phone and I need it now. It's the phone I've been
> waiting for for about four years.

Ortwin, with such strong feelings, "I need this phone and I need it now", you
must have certain specific requirements for putting it to use.  Certainly we
all have our wish list with lots of far out ideas but what do you need to
phone to do first, to meet these four-year-pent-up demands, from before the
OpenMoko even existed?  Basically you're speaking as someone frustrated with
something in particular.

> I hope people will help me if I'm stuck in some scary command line. ;)

Certainly I'll help.  I'm hoping to produce a series of screencasts about the
phone.  My first, just an overview for those wondering what the heck an
OpenMoko is that I gave last week at the local DFW Unix Users group, can be
found at:

  http://www.showmedo.com/videos/video?name=104&fromSeriesID=104

I'm planning a talk on the hardware, and another on the underlying software
architecture.  In my mind, I divide the audience into those who are system
programmers (kernel/driver folks) and those who are application programmers
(high-level lang + defined service interfaces).  Besides being an embedded
systems engineer, I'm also the advocacy coordinator for Python and hope to
encourage and support those who want to build their apps using Python.

-Jeff


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Re: An idea for an advertisement

[Martin Straub]

Sudharshan S schrieb:

Hi all,
I have an idea for an advertisement featuring Openmoko. Be gentle with
the flames though.
A dude dressed in t-shirt and jeans (deja-vu?), walks through a crowded
lane. Everyone except him are dressed in prison clothes and march in the
opposite direction with their "closed" phones, some of the guys look at
this "free" man and stare. To add to the effect we play an ambient
techno music and everything is white in colour. The man walks in front
of the camera, at that moment, gets a call, smiles and says "Hello
World...", We then fade into the "Free your phone" and "OpenMoko" thingy
as seen in the rocking youtube videos. If only I had a camera? =(. Of
course we could use the neos that are about to be shipped for the ad.
I am not sure if any ad similar to this has been done before, Comments
and flames?

Regards
Sudharshan S


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Hi,
could lend you a camera, but I have no lane crowded with prisoners 
available right now ;-) .


Anyway, Openmoko seems to become well-known without further action =-O
The picture attached is from the weekend journal of a major Austrian 
newspaper ("Kurier").


The text basically says:

"The Openmoko platform is the basic element of a new series of mobile 
phones utilizing open source software.
Hence you can adapt the software to your needs. The first mobile phone 
of this series is the Neo1973 which can be ordered for EUR 220".


The price given is correct for Europe (w/o shipping).

But I think before advertising there should be a product ready for the 
mass market, which obviously is not the case right now.

I think we have some months left designing advertising campaigns.

Take Care
Martin, Austria

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An idea for an advertisement

[Sudharshan S]

Hi all,
I have an idea for an advertisement featuring Openmoko. Be gentle with
the flames though.
A dude dressed in t-shirt and jeans (deja-vu?), walks through a crowded
lane. Everyone except him are dressed in prison clothes and march in the
opposite direction with their "closed" phones, some of the guys look at
this "free" man and stare. To add to the effect we play an ambient
techno music and everything is white in colour. The man walks in front
of the camera, at that moment, gets a call, smiles and says "Hello
World...", We then fade into the "Free your phone" and "OpenMoko" thingy
as seen in the rocking youtube videos. If only I had a camera? =(. Of
course we could use the neos that are about to be shipped for the ad.
I am not sure if any ad similar to this has been done before, Comments
and flames?

Regards
Sudharshan S


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Re: Marketing... aGPS uses

[Krzysztof Kajkowski]

2007/7/21, Adam Krikstone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

AGPS is where focus needs to be.  This natural (and free) comparative
advantage needs to be developed to attract new developers and customers.

5. Auto sync location dependent - arrive at home wifi/bt turn on and
attempt to sync, sync when movement is sensed in the morning



Hi! That's a wonderful list you made! I have one doubt though - how
well would that AGPS chip work, especially in buildings. I have Garmin
GPS which does not get signal reception if anything is between it and
GPS satellite so it does not work in my appartment or shows locations
with massive error.

Does anyone tested AGPS yet?

cayco

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