Re: package uboot-gta 01-1.2.0+svn: failed
Omar BELKHODJA wrote: > Thanks Mickey ! No problem. Sorry it took so long, but recently I have been concentrating on OpenMoko recipes in org.openembedded.dev. Official Announcement will follow hopefully within the next 7 days. Best regards, -- - Michael Lauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://openmoko.org/ Software for the worlds' first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?
On 7 Aug 2007, at 22:34, Robin Paulson wrote: i for one was interested in what luca had to say, the discussion that evolved, and i've learned something because of it The idea was a good one, but not feasible at this time and not with Moko hardware. The Neo1973 is an open device but it can't defy physics. and anyway, the telcos are bastards, are screwing us and many would agree with luca's sentiments. i found out last week that i get charged NZ$10/MB (about $8US) for GPRS data - that's not justified, and isn't customer oriented, it's money-grabbing True, plus their plans don't make sense. SMS messages cost a fortune for 160 bytes. But hey, they're a business and businesses are all about making money. Competition is what drives down costs usually. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: package uboot-gta 01-1.2.0+svn: failed
Great ! This problem is fixed now. You've just to do make update-makefile && make update && make setup && make openmoko-devel-image Let's see what happens next... Thanks Mickey ! Omar BELKHODJA a écrit : Christoph Schweers a écrit : Someone put the following hint about the broken uboot into the wiki: http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Talk:MokoMakefile&curid=2028&diff=16187&oldid=15769 But I don't know how to change the corresponding bitbake recipe to get revision 'cc3023b9f95d7ac959a764471a65001062aecf41' of uboot :-( Maybe someone of you knows how to do that? It seems that somebody is working on the resolution of this problem. After executing make update-makefile && make update && make setup I have seen that some files have been updated : Utrunk/oe/packages/uboot/uboot-gta01_svn.bb Utrunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ChangeLog U trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/src/moko-dialer.c U trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/src/moko-notify.c U trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/src/dialer-main.c U trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/src/moko-talking.c U trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/configure.ac U trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/ChangeLog U trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/src/feed-selection-view.c U trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/src/feed-selection-view.h U trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/src/feed-item-view.c U trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/src/application-data.h A trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/src/feed-marshal.list U trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/src/main.c U trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/src/Makefile.am U trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/src Utrunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/src/buttonactions.h Utrunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/src/buttonactions.c Utrunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/README Then I had a new problem because the file http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/git_www.denx.de.git.u-boot.git._8993e54b6f397973794f3d6f47d3b3c0c98dd4f6.tar.gz could not be found. This file is referred to within the file trunk/oe/packages/uboot/uboot-gta01_svn.bb that has been updated today (use the command "svn info openmoko/trunk/oe/packages/uboot/uboot-gta01_svn.bb" to check it) by a developper (Mickey). So I think that very soon the file http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/git_www.denx.de.git.u-boot.git._8993e54b6f397973794f3d6f47d3b3c0c98dd4f6.tar.gz will be added. Let's hope this is done by tomorrow ! -- Omar BELKHODJA ___ _ __ / |/ __ \ / | / | | (___ | | | | (___ | | ___ _ __ ___ _ __ __ _ _ __ _ _ \___ \| | | |\___ \ | |/ _ \| '_ ` _ \| '_ \ / _` | '_ \| | | | ) | |__| |) | | |___| (_) | | | | | | |_) | (_| | | | | |_| | |_/ \/|_/ \_\___/|_| |_| |_| .__/ \__,_|_| |_|\__, | | | __/ | |_||___/ ____ __ ( '_/_ _ _/ / )_ '_ ' _ / (/ _/' _ __)///)/)((- (//)(/ (__// /(///)(/( __)()((///()/)_) / _/ http://www.sos-company.com ___ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?
On 8/8/07, Mikko Rauhala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > They probably don't, you just don't have a clue what they're actually > talking about (for example, not talking about power). > > Anyway, let me try to be helpful here in giving you some personal > insight about yourself: You obviously lack all necessary technical > background to understand the issues properly at all. Your obvious hatred > of telcos doesn't exactly help, since it apparently completely blinds > you to rational arguments why schemes such as the one you're proposing > are extremely difficult to scale in sane ways, let alone with limited > power. And no, dismissing them as telco FUD without any grounds isn't a > proper argument. > > Thank you, have a nice day, and let's get back to this when you > understand what a radio is and how it's different from a p2p network, > shall we? HTH and cheers. hey, take it easy i for one was interested in what luca had to say, the discussion that evolved, and i've learned something because of it your attitude is really helping. he might not know anything (i doubt it, he appears to have done some research), but dismissing his input because of it is short-sighted. a new pair of eyes with a different slant can often be useful. this list is not about personal improvement, it's about a phone and an OS. keep it to that and anyway, the telcos are bastards, are screwing us and many would agree with luca's sentiments. i found out last week that i get charged NZ$10/MB (about $8US) for GPRS data - that's not justified, and isn't customer oriented, it's money-grabbing ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2007.2 - questions
On 8/7/07, pauric <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Andy "PS - That reminds me... am I the only one who thinks you should be > able to > select "power off" from the battery status icon?" > > Yes and no. From a icon/workflow perspective it would seem sensible to > place options for stand-by/off/status etc. However, from a usability > perspective if you have to hit a physical button to power-on then the user's > mental map of that functionality will be linked to the button... so there's > little point in adding complexity to the interface if user's are likely to > go back to the same place for power-down as they did for power-up. yes and no, but slightly differently: if the user regards the neo/openmoko as a 'computer', then a software power off icon/button/option is expected, to match how a desktop running windows/linux/macos works (and these have hardware power-on buttons, too). if the user regards it as a phone, then a hardware button is needed. smartphones/pdas blur the lines between computer and phone, so we probably need both. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Incorrect UPS tracking numbers?
I just got my "Your order has shipped!" email (yay!), but the UPS tracking number included showed a package signed for by Mike (not my name) in San Ramon, CA, (not where my address is). Did that happen to anyone else? Since I'm also in the San Francisco Bay area, I'm hoping my package will already be delivered too when I get home ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: package uboot-gta 01-1.2.0+svn: failed
Christoph Schweers a écrit : Someone put the following hint about the broken uboot into the wiki: http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Talk:MokoMakefile&curid=2028&diff=16187&oldid=15769 But I don't know how to change the corresponding bitbake recipe to get revision 'cc3023b9f95d7ac959a764471a65001062aecf41' of uboot :-( Maybe someone of you knows how to do that? It seems that somebody is working on the resolution of this problem. After executing make update-makefile && make update && make setup I have seen that some files have been updated : Utrunk/oe/packages/uboot/uboot-gta01_svn.bb Utrunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ChangeLog Utrunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/src/moko-dialer.c Utrunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/src/moko-notify.c Utrunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/src/dialer-main.c Utrunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/src/moko-talking.c Utrunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/configure.ac Utrunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/ChangeLog U trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/src/feed-selection-view.c U trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/src/feed-selection-view.h U trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/src/feed-item-view.c U trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/src/application-data.h A trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/src/feed-marshal.list Utrunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/src/main.c U trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/src/Makefile.am U trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/src Utrunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/src/buttonactions.h Utrunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/src/buttonactions.c Utrunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/README Then I had a new problem because the file http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/git_www.denx.de.git.u-boot.git._8993e54b6f397973794f3d6f47d3b3c0c98dd4f6.tar.gz could not be found. This file is referred to within the file trunk/oe/packages/uboot/uboot-gta01_svn.bb that has been updated today (use the command "svn info openmoko/trunk/oe/packages/uboot/uboot-gta01_svn.bb" to check it) by a developper (Mickey). So I think that very soon the file http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/git_www.denx.de.git.u-boot.git._8993e54b6f397973794f3d6f47d3b3c0c98dd4f6.tar.gz will be added. Let's hope this is done by tomorrow ! -- Omar BELKHODJA ___ _ __ / |/ __ \ / | / | | (___ | | | | (___ | | ___ _ __ ___ _ __ __ _ _ __ _ _ \___ \| | | |\___ \ | |/ _ \| '_ ` _ \| '_ \ / _` | '_ \| | | | ) | |__| |) | | |___| (_) | | | | | | |_) | (_| | | | | |_| | |_/ \/|_/ \_\___/|_| |_| |_| .__/ \__,_|_| |_|\__, | | | __/ | |_||___/ ____ __ ( '_/_ _ _/ / )_ '_ ' _ / (/ _/' _ __)///)/)((- (//)(/ (__// /(///)(/( __)()((///()/)_) / _/ http://www.sos-company.com ___ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: VMWare-Image (again)
Now it's 38% downlaoded. I found a PHP tracker (TorrentTrader), but it's designed for mysql 4. hope this will work with my mysql 5. (I won't downgrade) Do you know any PHP tracker? I found this one, but maybe other are better ? I knew PHPBT that was nice, simple, fast, but it seems to be unavailable now :( 2007/8/7, Jeff Andros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > let us know if you put this up on bittorrent... I'll help seed > > On 8/7/07, Sébastien Lorquet <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > > > I'm planning to create a minimal build host with a fedora. > > > > I can copy your file to my server, if I can download it somewhere. We > > can share it via bittorrent, too. > > > > > > 2007/8/7, Eric Heinemann < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > > If someone will host the 2gb+ file, I can provide an Ubuntu VMWare > > > image that I made several months ago. A few people have downloaded it, > > > and > > > I am not sure how well it works for actual development. I was able to > > > compile everything using MokoMakefile and run the qemu image it produced. > > > > > > -Eric > > > > > > - Original Message > > > From: Jay Vaughan < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: Al Johnson < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2007 9:56:38 AM > > > Subject: Re: VMWare-Image (again) > > > > > > >> There is QEmu images at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ > > > >> OpenMoko_under_QEMU . > > > >> QEMU is a generic and open source machine emulator and virtualizer: > > > >> http://www.qemu.org/ > > > > > > > > True, but answers the wrong question. The question is whether > > > there > > > > is a > > > > virtual machine image of an entire configured build system, > > > similar > > > > to the > > > > one for the Neuros OSD. AFAIK the answer is no. I was going to > > > make > > > > one using > > > > qemu and ubuntu, but other things got in the way and I won't have > > > > the time > > > > again before September. > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't much help I know, but I'm doing just this - setting up a > > > Parallels image for GP2X developers - for the GP2X handheld gaming > > > console .. maybe I should consider merging openmoko into the same > > > image while I'm at it .. probably a good idea .. > > > > > > j. > > > > > > ___ > > > OpenMoko community mailing list > > > community@lists.openmoko.org > > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > OpenMoko community mailing list > > > community@lists.openmoko.org > > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Sébastien LORQUET - 이세영 (李世榮) > > Ingénieur ENSPG 2006 / ENSIMAG-ASI 2007 > > ___ > > OpenMoko community mailing list > > community@lists.openmoko.org > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > > > > -- > Jeff > O|||O -- Sébastien LORQUET - 이세영 (李世榮) Ingénieur ENSPG 2006 / ENSIMAG-ASI 2007 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: VMWare-Image (again)
let us know if you put this up on bittorrent... I'll help seed On 8/7/07, Sébastien Lorquet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm planning to create a minimal build host with a fedora. > > I can copy your file to my server, if I can download it somewhere. We can > share it via bittorrent, too. > > > 2007/8/7, Eric Heinemann < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > If someone will host the 2gb+ file, I can provide an Ubuntu VMWare image > > that I made several months ago. A few people have downloaded it, and I am > > not sure how well it works for actual development. I was able to compile > > everything using MokoMakefile and run the qemu image it produced. > > > > -Eric > > > > - Original Message > > From: Jay Vaughan < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: Al Johnson < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org > > Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2007 9:56:38 AM > > Subject: Re: VMWare-Image (again) > > > > >> There is QEmu images at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ > > >> OpenMoko_under_QEMU . > > >> QEMU is a generic and open source machine emulator and virtualizer: > > >> http://www.qemu.org/ > > > > > > True, but answers the wrong question. The question is whether there > > > is a > > > virtual machine image of an entire configured build system, similar > > > to the > > > one for the Neuros OSD. AFAIK the answer is no. I was going to make > > > one using > > > qemu and ubuntu, but other things got in the way and I won't have > > > the time > > > again before September. > > > > > > > > > This isn't much help I know, but I'm doing just this - setting up a > > Parallels image for GP2X developers - for the GP2X handheld gaming > > console .. maybe I should consider merging openmoko into the same > > image while I'm at it .. probably a good idea .. > > > > j. > > > > ___ > > OpenMoko community mailing list > > community@lists.openmoko.org > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > > > ___ > > OpenMoko community mailing list > > community@lists.openmoko.org > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > > > > -- > Sébastien LORQUET - 이세영 (李世榮) > Ingénieur ENSPG 2006 / ENSIMAG-ASI 2007 > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Mac OS X] Working dfu-util
Am 07.08.2007 um 13:50 schrieb Simon Moore: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: One more question - how did you manage that dfu-util is not blocked by the AppleUSBCDC driver which also tries to bind to the same USB interface? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community It could be a cause of why I have to disconnect & reconnect the USB cable for each invocation of dfu-util. I have seen this in the output at times: Cannot claim interface: usb_claim_interface: couldn't claim interface Yes, this is the same symptom as I have. I just checked with kextstat (kextstat | grep CDC), and it does show the many CDC drivers being loaded when the Neo is connected. They are not present when the Neo is not connected. A quick google shows you can manually unload the drivers (not sure the -b is correct): sudo kextunload -b com.apple.driver.AppleUSBCDC sudo kextunload -b com.apple.driver.AppleUSBCDCACMControl sudo kextunload -b com.apple.driver.AppleUSBCDCECMData sudo kextunload -b com.apple.driver.AppleUSBCDCACMData Then the next time the Neo is connected the CDC driver is not loaded. Not necessarily - there will be a race condition between dfu-util and the kextloader (trying to reload it). I just tried this, but it's strange. Unloading AppleUSBCDC worked ok. Unloading AppleUSBCDCACMControl threw an error that it could not unload, but thereafter all the CDC drivers were no longer being loaded. But I still had another 'couldn't claim interface' error. Maybe the 'couldn't claim interface' error is not resulting from the Apple drivers? I don't really know enough about USB or libusb, but the NULL pointer problems (e.g bug #672) make me suspicious. Yes, there might be other bugs - but I think it is the AppleUSBCDC which already owns the interface (exclusively). Harald Welte mentioned that on the owner's and u-boot list. So far my most successful approach is the disconnect & reconnect of the USB cable... I have the additional approach by installing AJZaurusUSB 0.5.2 which is given a higher driver probe priority to match the device than AppleUSBCDC. For me it worked, but I have no positive feedback from others yet. Nikolaus ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Mac OS X] Working dfu-util
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: One more question - how did you manage that dfu-util is not blocked by the AppleUSBCDC driver which also tries to bind to the same USB interface? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community It could be a cause of why I have to disconnect & reconnect the USB cable for each invocation of dfu-util. I have seen this in the output at times: Cannot claim interface: usb_claim_interface: couldn't claim interface I just checked with kextstat (kextstat | grep CDC), and it does show the many CDC drivers being loaded when the Neo is connected. They are not present when the Neo is not connected. A quick google shows you can manually unload the drivers (not sure the -b is correct): sudo kextunload -b com.apple.driver.AppleUSBCDC sudo kextunload -b com.apple.driver.AppleUSBCDCACMControl sudo kextunload -b com.apple.driver.AppleUSBCDCECMData sudo kextunload -b com.apple.driver.AppleUSBCDCACMData Then the next time the Neo is connected the CDC driver is not loaded. I just tried this, but it's strange. Unloading AppleUSBCDC worked ok. Unloading AppleUSBCDCACMControl threw an error that it could not unload, but thereafter all the CDC drivers were no longer being loaded. But I still had another 'couldn't claim interface' error. Maybe the 'couldn't claim interface' error is not resulting from the Apple drivers? I don't really know enough about USB or libusb, but the NULL pointer problems (e.g bug #672) make me suspicious. So far my most successful approach is the disconnect & reconnect of the USB cable... Simon ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS data from gllin
I believe there is the possibility that GeoClue will be ported to OpenMoko. This would provide a simple DBUS interface to "location" and developers wouldn't have to care if the location was provided by GPS, WiFi, Plazes, user entered, or whatever. http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/GeoClue On 8/6/07, Jonathon Suggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ken Yale wrote: > > Hello, > > > > The GLLIN sends NMEA sentences to named pipe "/tmp/nmeaNP". > > The OMGUI uses this output to plot positions, satellite strength, etc. > > on various OMGUI test panels. > > Close your handle to /tmp/nmeaNP to stop the GLLIN (if it was opened > > with "-np" option). > > > > Below is a typical NMEA output sequence from the GTA01 showing the > > position (RMC,GGA), time (UTC format) (RMC,GGA), satellites used (GSA), > > satellites tracked (GSV), satellite signal strength (GSV), and satellite > > position (GSV), type of fix (GSA), and various other details (GGA > > especially has lots of miscellaneous information). > > > > Google "NMEA" and you'll find excellent tutorials about NMEA. (Be sure > > not to type too fast and end up with "NEMA" which, among other things, > > is a medical-imaging file exchange standard.) > > > > $GPGGA,230648.00,3716.309458,N,12156.790892,W,1,07,0.5,040.0,M,-0.537000 > > ,M,0.0130515,0130*7C > > $GPRMC,230648.00,A,3716.309458,N,12156.790892,W,005.9,188.0,060607,,,A*4 > > 1 > > $GPGSV,2,1,08,23,69,004,37,20,52,174,44,25,49,260,44,13,46,314,30*70 > > $GPGSV,2,2,08,16,42,064,35,04,14,292,34,01,12,096,30,27,25,250,16*77 > > $GPGSA,A,3,01,04,13,16,20,23,25,,1.1,0.5,1.0*32 > > $GPGGA,230649.00,3716.307825,N,12156.791167,W,1,07,0.5,040.0,M,-0.537000 > > ,M,0.0130515,0130*77 > > $GPRMC,230649.00,A,3716.307825,N,12156.791167,W,006.1,188.0,060607,,,A*4 > > 1 > > $GPGSV,2,1,08,23,69,004,35,20,52,174,43,25,49,260,43,13,46,314,28*7B > > $GPGSV,2,2,08,16,42,064,35,04,14,292,34,01,12,096,28,27,25,250,27*7C > > $GPGSA,A,3,01,04,13,16,20,23,25,,1.1,0.5,1.0*32 > > > > The OpenMoko team will plug the GLLIN into the GPSD (see module > > omgui/gllin.cpp for sample GLLIN start/stop code to use as the basis for > > the GPSD). I hear the DBUS link planned for GPS information > > distribution beyond the GPSD multi-cast is done. > > > > TTFN > > Ken Yale > Thanks for the info, I'm looking into the gpds documentation right now. > I'm somewhat familiar with DBUS, but will need to get my hands dirty > with it before I feel truly comfortable. Any DBUS and/or GPS gurus out > there? > > I know possibly premature, but what would be the "correct" way to get > gps information? > > You can get the raw output like is demonstrated in the wiki > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS > > Or you could call d-bus methods (ie turnOn, turnOff, curPosition, > curElevation, curSpeed, etc). Do we have any idea what that address > would be and/or has anyone worked on those interfaces/methods? > > I would think something like the dbus interface could make for "cleaner" > more (re)usable code, plus you could hide some of the underlying > complexities in the gpsd setup. > > -- Andrew Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] 42.2774N x 83.7611W http://highearthorbit.com Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Introduction to Neogeography - http://oreilly.com/catalog/neogeography ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Neo 1973 is sold out...
I sent a request to the RT system today for a status update on my order and I received a reply within 10 minutes that it would be processed tomorrow (#2570) Plenty of things are happening, just not out in the open. Brian From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mathew Davis Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:59 AM To: Yohann (yrc) Coppel; community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Neo 1973 is sold out... I think we need to look at this project more along the line of 'Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country' JFK. This project is kind of like an investment into the future of mobile phones. If you are here just so that you can findout more about the handset that you would like to get then wait until october, and let FIC work things out. It seems to me that people are more interested in the hand set then the openmoko project. This is obviously a difficult change of direction for FIC, well now openmoko, so give them some slack. Be patient things will come along. You will be treated fairly. It seems like when something doesn't go 100% smooth that you get this type of post. That seems down right silly to me. This is in development stages don't expect everything to be in 100% working order, and that goes for communication in the mailing lists as much as it goes for the development of the phone. I think we all just need to relax and wait for an official announcement before we go speading FUD about the project. If we want to see openmoko survive then we need to give them some room to breath. For me it feels like people are just smothering FIC. If you get some new relivent information like the information posted here then post it. But for everyone else give it some time for FIC to respond. I think things are proceeding well. When we get some more information from FIC then we can start making judgements and assetments, but until then settle down. Just some of my thought after reading this post. Thanks, Matt On 8/6/07, Yohann (yrc) Coppel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I don't want to say stupid things, but, AFAIK: The device is sold out since yesterday !!! And it was Sunday (maybe Monday in their timezone). Give them some time (I mean one day or two at least !!) Maybe they had a whole bunch of orders this weekend, and they had to change quickly the page while keeping processing the orders. This doesn't implies that they are planing to stay silent for the rest of the month, or that they are not going to contact anyone, or not accept any cancellations, or [write here any other criticism you have made]. (If I am totally wrong, I don't even want to know ok ? ;) ) So take it easy ;) I want a GTA02 device too, and I hope they will be ready for the release ! If they are sold out, it's a good sign isn't it ? means that a lot of people are interested ! and that we are all together going to make a good phone (and birds will be flying around, the sun shining, and everything :D ) ! I have been around on the IRC channel for the last few days, and I found the community really friendly, especially with newbies, which is IMHO, one of the most important things. I feel comfortable to ask questions to get started to develop apps for openmoko, which is really nice. Yohann. (aka. leppoc on IRC). On 8/6/07, Jonathon Suggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ian Stirling wrote: > > We need to know, in decreasing order: > > Is the GTA02 hardware likely to be able to SHIP to developers in October? > > > > Have any changes been made to the published GTA02 specifications other > > than the new LEDs? > > > > How many outstanding orders are there for the GTA01? > > > > What is the current GTA01 production volume? > > > > Do you not really want to sell the GTA01 at all? > I feel like I've been doing a lot of complaining on the list lately, but > I have to agree 110%. Everyone is always saying things like "be > grateful for the information you've been given" and "this is more 'open' > communication than with other companies." While those may be true, this > project is different. Sean does communicate directly with the > community. At one point we were somewhat kept in the loop, now we get > nothing (ok, not nothing). > > I for one am glad that I did not purchase the GTA01. The entire process > (at least from what I have read) has been at best a complete disaster, > and it still isn't over or even getting better. FIC may not have ever > done B2C, but that still doesn't excuse th
Re: 2007.2 - questions
Andy "PS - That reminds me... am I the only one who thinks you should be able to select "power off" from the battery status icon?" Yes and no. From a icon/workflow perspective it would seem sensible to place options for stand-by/off/status etc. However, from a usability perspective if you have to hit a physical button to power-on then the user's mental map of that functionality will be linked to the button... so there's little point in adding complexity to the interface if user's are likely to go back to the same place for power-down as they did for power-up. The question regarding adding anything to the UI of a small form factor display is: Is it absolutely necessary and not available anywhere else? So, as a ui designer, I would advise on simplicity and no option list under the battery icon. Its a good idea but doesnt make it past the usability questions. regards - pauric On 8/3/07, Andy Poling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Fri, 3 Aug 2007, Thomas Gstädtner wrote: > > If you want to try it, you can take a look at alphaone's builds > > http://people.openmoko.org/alphaone/images/ > > They work for me, but they are very (and I mean very!) basic. > > I tried alphaone's build, and I must say I like what I see. I was able to > pretty quickly grasp the UI paradigms (something I'm still struggling with > on > .1), and I like the fact that the main buttons are larger and easier to > use. > > I can't find a way to power off under .2 though. :-) > > -Andy > > PS - That reminds me... am I the only one who thinks you should be able to > select "power off" from the battery status icon? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Touchscreen not working properly
Giles Jones writes: > I'm not sure of where the calibration information is stored, but it's > possible it's not updating correctly? Does anyone know where the calibration information is stored? Or what the calibration tool is called, if it can be invoked again? Re-flashing takes a while, and I've mistakenly calibrated it incorrectly once already. /Simon ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Mac OS X] Working dfu-util
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Great! Am 07.08.2007 um 11:45 schrieb Simon Moore: I've managed to get dfu-util compiling and running natively (via MacPorts) on Mac OS X, albeit with one patch (bug #672) and one dirty little sed hack. Yes, I also had to patch two NULL pointer dereferences. Hopefully this will work for others - let me know if you have success, or improvements to suggest. I've documented all of this on the wiki, under my user area: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:SNMoore I have not compared in detail but it looks like the same steps I have done. Yes, I suspect it is similar. Did you try OpenMoko Flasher which is a GUI wrapper around dfu-util and eliminates the manual compilation steps (and even to install MacPorts)? Not yet. I'm just trying to get up to speed with both OS X and Openmoko, GDB etc so starting from a shell and trying to identify a clean set of dependencies. Little steps... I've got an Ubuntu VMWare install, so I'm trying to see what I can/cannot achieve in OS X vs Ubuntu. In future, I need to look at moving this to the main Mac OS X pages on the wiki, once I've worked out what goes where... Here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MacOS_X Nikolaus ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Simon ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?
On 8/7/07, Mikko Rauhala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ti, 2007-08-07 kello 17:34 +0200, Luca Dionisi kirjoitti: > > I don't know for sure if they write sentences like that one without > > having a clue. > > They probably don't, you just don't have a clue what they're actually > talking about (for example, not talking about power). > > Anyway, let me try to be helpful here in giving you some personal > insight about yourself: You obviously lack all necessary technical > background to understand the issues properly at all. Your obvious hatred > of telcos doesn't exactly help, since it apparently completely blinds > you to rational arguments why schemes such as the one you're proposing > are extremely difficult to scale in sane ways, let alone with limited > power. And no, dismissing them as telco FUD without any grounds isn't a > proper argument. > > Thank you, have a nice day, and let's get back to this when you > understand what a radio is and how it's different from a p2p network, > shall we? HTH and cheers. > > -- > Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.iki.fi/mjr/> > Transhumanist - WTA member - http://www.transhumanism.org/> > Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - http://www.singinst.org/> Mikko, thanks a lot. Now I see the point. As I said, I will step back. --Luca ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
What's the real scope of hardware openness?
On 8/7/07, John Seghers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Luca Dionisi wrote: > > > > Many NEOs -> many batteries. > > Few NEOs -> few power need. > > Scaleable, isn't it? > > > > I know I'm simplifying. I'm not saying it's trivial. > > The main problem here is that the WiFi hardware was not designed for the > ultra-low-power modes required to extend the "standby" time. Note how most > phones today can go for days without recharging while waiting for a call, > but get only a few hours of talk time. > > GSM and CDMA radio systems are designed to use an absolute minimum of power > when in standby. They broadcast location occasionally, but most of the time > they are just listening--and listening only to the "housekeeping" channel. > > In a mesh network using WiFi, however, the nodes need to be active any time > they are being used for data transfer. Even topological negotiation is > going to require data transfer. > > > E.g. the previously mentioned link says: > > Netsukuku is designed to handle an unlimited number of nodes with minimal > > CPU and memory resources. > > Unfortunately this doesn't say anything about power requirements. > > - John > > John, thanks a lot for the light. Now I see. Sad. I will step back and think. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: VMWare-Image (again)
I'm planning to create a minimal build host with a fedora. I can copy your file to my server, if I can download it somewhere. We can share it via bittorrent, too. 2007/8/7, Eric Heinemann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > If someone will host the 2gb+ file, I can provide an Ubuntu VMWare image > that I made several months ago. A few people have downloaded it, and I am > not sure how well it works for actual development. I was able to compile > everything using MokoMakefile and run the qemu image it produced. > > -Eric > > - Original Message > From: Jay Vaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Al Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org > Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2007 9:56:38 AM > Subject: Re: VMWare-Image (again) > > >> There is QEmu images at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ > >> OpenMoko_under_QEMU . > >> QEMU is a generic and open source machine emulator and virtualizer: > >> http://www.qemu.org/ > > > > True, but answers the wrong question. The question is whether there > > is a > > virtual machine image of an entire configured build system, similar > > to the > > one for the Neuros OSD. AFAIK the answer is no. I was going to make > > one using > > qemu and ubuntu, but other things got in the way and I won't have > > the time > > again before September. > > > > > This isn't much help I know, but I'm doing just this - setting up a > Parallels image for GP2X developers - for the GP2X handheld gaming > console .. maybe I should consider merging openmoko into the same > image while I'm at it .. probably a good idea .. > > j. > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > -- Sébastien LORQUET - 이세영 (李世榮) Ingénieur ENSPG 2006 / ENSIMAG-ASI 2007 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Subject: Re: Neo 1973 is sold out...
I'm glad someone came out and said this. I quit tracking that thread because of the level of venom expressed by the community to FIC. If Harald's blog is an indication of anything, it's that FIC is having a lot of problems right now. Give them time; the Neo has only been out for a few months. J. On 8/7/07, Simon Josefsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hear, hear. > > Frankly, I'd much rather have Harald be able to spend time writing code > than having to act as the customer service representative. > > If you want to track status, see the commitlog. ;-) > > /Simon > > Jon Radel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Just a general comment, directed at no individual in particular, but at > > the general tone of this thread. ...particularly since accusations of > > condescension are being slung around pretty freely. > > > > Some of you may wish to reread some of your comments and evaluate to > > what extent members of the OpenMoko staff may find them condescending. > > > > In any case, I'd save the "utterly unacceptable" comments for when we > > find out that OpenMoko is trafficking in underage girls to finance > > production runs. If you start handing out evaluations like that just > > because OpenMoko hasn't yet solved all the problems of taking a small > > company/division/group from 0 to 100 in 2.4 seconds flat, your rhetoric > > doesn't leave much room for escalation. :-) > > > > --Jon Radel > > ___ > > OpenMoko community mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?
ti, 2007-08-07 kello 17:34 +0200, Luca Dionisi kirjoitti: > I don't know for sure if they write sentences like that one without > having a clue. They probably don't, you just don't have a clue what they're actually talking about (for example, not talking about power). Anyway, let me try to be helpful here in giving you some personal insight about yourself: You obviously lack all necessary technical background to understand the issues properly at all. Your obvious hatred of telcos doesn't exactly help, since it apparently completely blinds you to rational arguments why schemes such as the one you're proposing are extremely difficult to scale in sane ways, let alone with limited power. And no, dismissing them as telco FUD without any grounds isn't a proper argument. Thank you, have a nice day, and let's get back to this when you understand what a radio is and how it's different from a p2p network, shall we? HTH and cheers. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.iki.fi/mjr/> Transhumanist - WTA member - http://www.transhumanism.org/> Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - http://www.singinst.org/> ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Mac OS X] Working dfu-util
Am 07.08.2007 um 11:45 schrieb Simon Moore: I've managed to get dfu-util compiling and running natively (via MacPorts) on Mac OS X, albeit with one patch (bug #672) and one dirty little sed hack. Hopefully this will work for others - let me know if you have success, or improvements to suggest. I've documented all of this on the wiki, under my user area: http:// wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:SNMoore In future, I need to look at moving this to the main Mac OS X pages on the wiki, once I've worked out what goes where... One more question - how did you manage that dfu-util is not blocked by the AppleUSBCDC driver which also tries to bind to the same USB interface? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: VMWare-Image (again)
I should be able to arrange hosting sometime tomorrow. If I don't get back to you with details then remind me :-) On Tuesday 07 August 2007 16:15, Eric Heinemann wrote: > If someone will host the 2gb+ file, I can provide an Ubuntu VMWare image > that I made several months ago. A few people have downloaded it, and I am > not sure how well it works for actual development. I was able to compile > everything using MokoMakefile and run the qemu image it produced. > > -Eric > > - Original Message > From: Jay Vaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Al Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org > Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2007 9:56:38 AM > Subject: Re: VMWare-Image (again) > > >> There is QEmu images at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ > >> OpenMoko_under_QEMU . > >> QEMU is a generic and open source machine emulator and virtualizer: > >> http://www.qemu.org/ > > > > True, but answers the wrong question. The question is whether there > > is a > > virtual machine image of an entire configured build system, similar > > to the > > one for the Neuros OSD. AFAIK the answer is no. I was going to make > > one using > > qemu and ubuntu, but other things got in the way and I won't have > > the time > > again before September. > > This isn't much help I know, but I'm doing just this - setting up a > Parallels image for GP2X developers - for the GP2X handheld gaming > console .. maybe I should consider merging openmoko into the same > image while I'm at it .. probably a good idea .. > > j. > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Mac OS X] Working dfu-util
Great! Am 07.08.2007 um 11:45 schrieb Simon Moore: I've managed to get dfu-util compiling and running natively (via MacPorts) on Mac OS X, albeit with one patch (bug #672) and one dirty little sed hack. Yes, I also had to patch two NULL pointer dereferences. Hopefully this will work for others - let me know if you have success, or improvements to suggest. I've documented all of this on the wiki, under my user area: http:// wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:SNMoore I have not compared in detail but it looks like the same steps I have done. Did you try OpenMoko Flasher which is a GUI wrapper around dfu-util and eliminates the manual compilation steps (and even to install MacPorts)? In future, I need to look at moving this to the main Mac OS X pages on the wiki, once I've worked out what goes where... Here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MacOS_X Nikolaus ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: What's the real scope of hardware openness?
Luca Dionisi wrote: > > Many NEOs -> many batteries. > Few NEOs -> few power need. > Scaleable, isn't it? > > I know I'm simplifying. I'm not saying it's trivial. The main problem here is that the WiFi hardware was not designed for the ultra-low-power modes required to extend the "standby" time. Note how most phones today can go for days without recharging while waiting for a call, but get only a few hours of talk time. GSM and CDMA radio systems are designed to use an absolute minimum of power when in standby. They broadcast location occasionally, but most of the time they are just listening--and listening only to the "housekeeping" channel. In a mesh network using WiFi, however, the nodes need to be active any time they are being used for data transfer. Even topological negotiation is going to require data transfer. > E.g. the previously mentioned link says: > Netsukuku is designed to handle an unlimited number of nodes with minimal > CPU and memory resources. Unfortunately this doesn't say anything about power requirements. - John ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Google Phone is coming...
I doubt google's hardware will be as open as FIC's so the Neo platform should still be more popular among the techie crowd. On 8/7/07, Jae Stutzman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hmm... > > If this phone has 3G before the standard Neo platform does, I will be > kinda disappointed. But if Google's large sums of cash is what is needed to > make OpenMoko Inc. successful and thus the OpenMoko platform, then it is a > bitter pill worth swallowing, imho. An interesting development none the > less. > > Jae > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[Mac OS X] Working dfu-util
I've managed to get dfu-util compiling and running natively (via MacPorts) on Mac OS X, albeit with one patch (bug #672) and one dirty little sed hack. Hopefully this will work for others - let me know if you have success, or improvements to suggest. I've documented all of this on the wiki, under my user area: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:SNMoore In future, I need to look at moving this to the main Mac OS X pages on the wiki, once I've worked out what goes where... Simon ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?
On 8/7/07, AVee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Of course thing can always be optimised, but i doubt that will be sufficient. > Your idea boils down to replacing GSM towers with a handfull of NEOs. That > whould roughly mean that all the power consumed a GSM tower now needs to be > provided by the batteries of these NEOs. Thats not something trivial. Many NEOs -> many batteries. Few NEOs -> few power need. Scaleable, isn't it? I know I'm simplifying. I'm not saying it's trivial. > And there will be added complexity because the system will have to cope with > all > the NEOs moving around, constantly changing routes from A to B etc. > It may not be impossible, but it's not going to be easy. I think the guys behind Netsukuku or BATMAN are already aware of those problems. E.g. the previously mentioned link says: Netsukuku is designed to handle an unlimited number of nodes with minimal CPU and memory resources. I don't know for sure if they write sentences like that one without having a clue. > Apart from that, systems like this are like public roads. With just a few > users there is no problem at all, but when things get crowded you will need > some rules or it will become a useless mess. We should think about a way to enforce such rules for when we need them. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: VMWare-Image (again)
If someone will host the 2gb+ file, I can provide an Ubuntu VMWare image that I made several months ago. A few people have downloaded it, and I am not sure how well it works for actual development. I was able to compile everything using MokoMakefile and run the qemu image it produced. -Eric - Original Message From: Jay Vaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Al Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2007 9:56:38 AM Subject: Re: VMWare-Image (again) >> There is QEmu images at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ >> OpenMoko_under_QEMU . >> QEMU is a generic and open source machine emulator and virtualizer: >> http://www.qemu.org/ > > True, but answers the wrong question. The question is whether there > is a > virtual machine image of an entire configured build system, similar > to the > one for the Neuros OSD. AFAIK the answer is no. I was going to make > one using > qemu and ubuntu, but other things got in the way and I won't have > the time > again before September. > This isn't much help I know, but I'm doing just this - setting up a Parallels image for GP2X developers - for the GP2X handheld gaming console .. maybe I should consider merging openmoko into the same image while I'm at it .. probably a good idea .. j. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Google Phone is coming...
Hmm... If this phone has 3G before the standard Neo platform does, I will be kinda disappointed. But if Google's large sums of cash is what is needed to make OpenMoko Inc. successful and thus the OpenMoko platform, then it is a bitter pill worth swallowing, imho. An interesting development none the less. Jae ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Google Phone is coming...
I love the rumors... Really hope they are true! :D On 8/7/07, Jeremy G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 8/4/07, Jeremy G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 8/4/07, Harrison Metzger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Why doesn't Google join Openmoko/Neo? > > > > Google has too many closed-source applications to fit with the > > completely open nature of OpenMoko, and likely, they intend to use > > their phone as an avenue to promote their applications, closed and > > open alike. > > > > Looks like I might end up eating my words: > > "There has been a new batch of rumors swirling about Google producing > a "gPhone" mobile telephone after a Reuters reporter stated High Tech > Computer Corp would be designing the Linux phone for Google. A > friendly penguin has told us at Phoronix that Google is looking to > team up with OpenMoko for their "gPhone". Google will not be using the > FIC Neo1973 GTA01, but they will be bringing the open-source OpenMoko > platform to their own hardware, which looks to be manufactured through > HTC, and making a few changes along the way. " > > Source: http://www.phoronix.com/?page=news_item&px=NTk1Mw > > J. > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Google Phone is coming...
On Tuesday 07 August 2007 16:15, Jeremy G wrote: > On 8/4/07, Jeremy G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 8/4/07, Harrison Metzger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Why doesn't Google join Openmoko/Neo? > > > > Google has too many closed-source applications to fit with the > > completely open nature of OpenMoko, and likely, they intend to use > > their phone as an avenue to promote their applications, closed and > > open alike. > > Looks like I might end up eating my words: > > "There has been a new batch of rumors swirling about Google producing > a "gPhone" mobile telephone after a Reuters reporter stated High Tech > Computer Corp would be designing the Linux phone for Google. A > friendly penguin has told us at Phoronix that Google is looking to > team up with OpenMoko for their "gPhone". Google will not be using the > FIC Neo1973 GTA01, but they will be bringing the open-source OpenMoko > platform to their own hardware, which looks to be manufactured through > HTC, and making a few changes along the way. " > > Source: http://www.phoronix.com/?page=news_item&px=NTk1Mw Google has never had any problem with placing their own closed stuff on top of open-source code. They are heavy open-source users, it's just to bad they are mostly users and never completely open. They do understand the power of 'default', paying big bucks to Mozilla and Opera for a search box which can be removed with two clicks. The same thing will apply to a phone, most people will never change anything in the software, no matter how open (or not) it is. AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?
On Tuesday 07 August 2007 13:07, Luca Dionisi wrote: > On 8/7/07, Mikko J Rauhala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > And also, wrt. mesh networking, you still don't really want to allow > > your phone, while it's mobile, to work as a bridge in the mesh; > > otherwise the battery would be dead in no time. But sure, advocate lots > > of open access points and perhaps putting the phone in mesh mode if it's > > hooked up to external power. And still there will be severe scalability > > issues, but what the hey, it's possible for _some_ N, right? :] > > Yep. > Anyway I would insist in finding a solution that doesn't rely > heavily in access points. It would be a showstopper. > IMHO we could reach the needed adoption level only if the > mobile phone (that everyone nowadays carries with him) is > the only needed spot. > If the mesh protocol is smart, I think the consumption problem > could be worked out. Of course thing can always be optimised, but i doubt that will be sufficient. Your idea boils down to replacing GSM towers with a handfull of NEOs. That whould roughly mean that all the power consumed a GSM tower now needs to be provided by the batteries of these NEOs. Thats not something trivial. And there will be added complexity because the system will have to cope with all the NEOs moving around, constantly changing routes from A to B etc. It may not be impossible, but it's not going to be easy. Apart from that, systems like this are like public roads. With just a few users there is no problem at all, but when things get crowded you will need some rules or it will become a useless mess. AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: VMWare-Image (again)
There is QEmu images at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ OpenMoko_under_QEMU . QEMU is a generic and open source machine emulator and virtualizer: http://www.qemu.org/ True, but answers the wrong question. The question is whether there is a virtual machine image of an entire configured build system, similar to the one for the Neuros OSD. AFAIK the answer is no. I was going to make one using qemu and ubuntu, but other things got in the way and I won't have the time again before September. This isn't much help I know, but I'm doing just this - setting up a Parallels image for GP2X developers - for the GP2X handheld gaming console .. maybe I should consider merging openmoko into the same image while I'm at it .. probably a good idea .. j. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Phase 1 sales / order process / misconception
On 8/7/07, Andy Powell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Tuesday 07 August 2007 08:27, Harald Welte wrote: > > Hi all! > > > > I tried to stay out of this entire discussion (like most non-technical > > discussions) for a long time. > > > > But I think there is just a big misconception of how and what at least > > certain people percieve and what is actually going on. > > No offence Harald, but you seem to have missed the point of the > complaints. > It's not that people haven't received their Neo's it's that there has been > virtually no communication from anyone with regard to general order > status. > > People just want some sort of information or report on what is *generally* > happening with regard to orders. He just told you what is *generally* happening. They have a very small team processing 1000+ orders with people constantly emailing them wanting to know the status. Which just makes it even harder to process all the orders. I think the problem is people are assuming the worst. And by doing so, they only contribute to making their nightmare happen. You will hear if they run out of phones. Right now, they have plenty of phones to ship. Maybe they don't have as many phones sitting on their desk as they have orders. But they will by the time they get through processing the orders for which they have phones. To summarize: The current delay is not getting phones manufactured. It is dealing with all the orders and status requests they are receiving. No news is good news! -Steven ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Subject: Re: Neo 1973 is sold out...
Hear, hear. Frankly, I'd much rather have Harald be able to spend time writing code than having to act as the customer service representative. If you want to track status, see the commitlog. ;-) /Simon Jon Radel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Just a general comment, directed at no individual in particular, but at > the general tone of this thread. ...particularly since accusations of > condescension are being slung around pretty freely. > > Some of you may wish to reread some of your comments and evaluate to > what extent members of the OpenMoko staff may find them condescending. > > In any case, I'd save the "utterly unacceptable" comments for when we > find out that OpenMoko is trafficking in underage girls to finance > production runs. If you start handing out evaluations like that just > because OpenMoko hasn't yet solved all the problems of taking a small > company/division/group from 0 to 100 in 2.4 seconds flat, your rhetoric > doesn't leave much room for escalation. :-) > > --Jon Radel > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gaming with the Neo
I'd prefer a Wiimote attached to the Neo with some kind of plastic holder but this is a nice alterative. On 8/7/07, Mario Wewer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Anyone of you ever saw something like this? > > > http://www.amazon.de/Handy-GamePad-Bluetooth-Smartphones-Pocket/dp/B000H8TQSM/ref=sr_1_57/028-7732093-9147747?ie=UTF8&s=ce-de&qid=1186487069&sr=1-57 > > I just found this solution on the german Amazon-Page... Seems like a VERY > CHEAP alternative (~25€) to use the Neo as a gaming-platform... (connected > to the phone via bluetooth) > > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Subject: Re: Neo 1973 is sold out...
Just a general comment, directed at no individual in particular, but at the general tone of this thread. ...particularly since accusations of condescension are being slung around pretty freely. Some of you may wish to reread some of your comments and evaluate to what extent members of the OpenMoko staff may find them condescending. In any case, I'd save the "utterly unacceptable" comments for when we find out that OpenMoko is trafficking in underage girls to finance production runs. If you start handing out evaluations like that just because OpenMoko hasn't yet solved all the problems of taking a small company/division/group from 0 to 100 in 2.4 seconds flat, your rhetoric doesn't leave much room for escalation. :-) --Jon Radel smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Google Phone is coming...
On 8/4/07, Jeremy G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 8/4/07, Harrison Metzger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Why doesn't Google join Openmoko/Neo? > > Google has too many closed-source applications to fit with the > completely open nature of OpenMoko, and likely, they intend to use > their phone as an avenue to promote their applications, closed and > open alike. > Looks like I might end up eating my words: "There has been a new batch of rumors swirling about Google producing a "gPhone" mobile telephone after a Reuters reporter stated High Tech Computer Corp would be designing the Linux phone for Google. A friendly penguin has told us at Phoronix that Google is looking to team up with OpenMoko for their "gPhone". Google will not be using the FIC Neo1973 GTA01, but they will be bringing the open-source OpenMoko platform to their own hardware, which looks to be manufactured through HTC, and making a few changes along the way. " Source: http://www.phoronix.com/?page=news_item&px=NTk1Mw J. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean Moss to speak at LinuxWorld Thursday, August 9, at 11:30
On 8/7/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > M8: Panel Discussion: Deploying Linux-based Handsets in the Real > World > 08/09/2007, 11:30 AM - 12:30 PM > Moderator: > Bill Weinberg, Embedded and Open Source Analyst / Consultant, Xandros. > > Speakers: > Sean Moss-Pultz, Product Manager, FIC. > John Ellis, Director of Carrier Market Development, Motorola. > Brian Coughlin, 4G Product Development, Sprint. > Satya Mallya, Director, Personal Sphere, Wireless & Terminals, Orange. > > This panel will bring together handset manufacturers, carriers and > other > mobile ecosystem players to provide perspectives on the emerging role > of Linux > in the mobile marketplace "post platform". In particular, this panel > will > focus on the benefits and challenges of deploying Linux-based > handsets and > rolling out value-added services based upon them. > > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > I hope someone is there to record it for those of us who won't be able to make the trek to San Fran. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gaming with the Neo
Is there some company that can make stuff like that for the neo? It would be great if there was a device like that, and one with a camera that were perfectly adaptable to the neo, and not very big so they could be stored in the pouch. Maybe even using the hole in the neo to be fixed. If anyone has already suggested that please forgive me. On Tuesday 07 August 2007 13:38:31 Sébastien Lorquet wrote: > I love that thing ! > > It seems far easier to use than on-screen buttons! > > 2007/8/7, Mario Wewer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Anyone of you ever saw something like this? > > > > > > http://www.amazon.de/Handy-GamePad-Bluetooth-Smartphones-Pocket/dp/B000H8 > >TQSM/ref=sr_1_57/028-7732093-9147747?ie=UTF8&s=ce-de&qid=1186487069&sr=1-5 > >7 > > > > I just found this solution on the german Amazon-Page... Seems like a VERY > > CHEAP alternative (~25€) to use the Neo as a gaming-platform... > > (connected to the phone via bluetooth) > > > > > > ___ > > OpenMoko community mailing list > > community@lists.openmoko.org > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gaming with the Neo
I love that thing ! It seems far easier to use than on-screen buttons! 2007/8/7, Mario Wewer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Anyone of you ever saw something like this? > > > http://www.amazon.de/Handy-GamePad-Bluetooth-Smartphones-Pocket/dp/B000H8TQSM/ref=sr_1_57/028-7732093-9147747?ie=UTF8&s=ce-de&qid=1186487069&sr=1-57 > > I just found this solution on the german Amazon-Page... Seems like a VERY > CHEAP alternative (~25€) to use the Neo as a gaming-platform... (connected > to the phone via bluetooth) > > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -- Sébastien LORQUET - 이세영 (李世榮) Ingénieur ENSPG 2006 / ENSIMAG-ASI 2007 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?
On 8/7/07, Giles Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Luca Dionisi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote : > > > > > > Yep. > > Anyway I would insist in finding a solution that doesn't rely > > heavily in access points. It would be a showstopper. > > IMHO we could reach the needed adoption level only if the > > mobile phone (that everyone nowadays carries with him) is > > the only needed spot. > > If the mesh protocol is smart, I think the consumption problem > > could be worked out. > > Are you sure that I'm advocating the wrong way to go? > > It's not just consumption of power, transmission strength as well. Would you > really feel safe placing a mobile device to your head that is transmitting a > signal 10 or more times stronger than with GSM? > > Not such an issue if you mandate a headset, but it's still a health concern. When you make a call (or answer) then the phone could go automatically in a mode that doesn't participate in the mesh. Solved. Or the signal is so much stronger also when it serves only you? Then working with a laptop on wifi for 8 hours is dangerous? I think there is some FUD in this issue. And the bastards (you know who I mean) spread it well. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: VMWare-Image (again)
On Tuesday 07 August 2007 12:58, Rafa Couto wrote: > > Is there now any working vmware image with all compilation-relevant files > > including the emulator downloadable?! Preferable with some demos? I just > > want to "start and begin coding" without having to set up the whole > > system... > > There is QEmu images at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU . > QEMU is a generic and open source machine emulator and virtualizer: > http://www.qemu.org/ True, but answers the wrong question. The question is whether there is a virtual machine image of an entire configured build system, similar to the one for the Neuros OSD. AFAIK the answer is no. I was going to make one using qemu and ubuntu, but other things got in the way and I won't have the time again before September. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Gaming with the Neo
Anyone of you ever saw something like this? http://www.amazon.de/Handy-GamePad-Bluetooth-Smartphones-Pocket/dp/B000H8TQSM/ref=sr_1_57/028-7732093-9147747?ie=UTF8&s=ce-de&qid=1186487069&sr=1-57 I just found this solution on the german Amazon-Page... Seems like a VERY CHEAP alternative (~25€) to use the Neo as a gaming-platform... (connected to the phone via bluetooth) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: VMWare-Image (again)
> > Is there now any working vmware image with all compilation-relevant files > including the emulator downloadable?! Preferable with some demos? I just > want to "start and begin coding" without having to set up the whole > system... There is QEmu images at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU . QEMU is a generic and open source machine emulator and virtualizer: http://www.qemu.org/ The real advantage of QEmu over VMWare is QEmu can be updated to support Neo1973 hardware (another Open Source feature :-). It is a work-in-progress and when it's more mature it is going to be submitted for merging to the main QEMU development tree... -- Rafa Couto - http://caligari.treboada.net GNU/Linux user #99126 - http://counter.li.org ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Neo1973 Phase 1 sales / order process / misconception
You hit the nail right on the head Andy. It doesn't take much to keep people informedergo then you wouldn't have 800 enquiries a day Harold. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 Ph +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:community- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Powell > Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2007 4:29 AM > To: community@lists.openmoko.org > Subject: Re: Neo1973 Phase 1 sales / order process / misconception > > > It must have taken you 20 minutes to type your email and I don;t think you > addressed any of the most basic questions people have asked. > > > Andy > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Phase 1 sales / order process / misconception
On Tue, Aug 07, 2007 at 10:47:19AM +0200, Sébastien Lorquet wrote: > Simple suggestion, I don't even known if it's feasible or not: > > Why not having a simple website to track order status? Because such a website, especially if it is to fulfill our security and privacy concerns, needs quite a bit of development time. -- - Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
VMWare-Image (again)
Once more this discussion Is there now any working vmware image with all compilation-relevant files including the emulator downloadable?! Preferable with some demos? I just want to "start and begin coding" without having to set up the whole system... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?
Luca Dionisi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote : > > Yep. > Anyway I would insist in finding a solution that doesn't rely > heavily in access points. It would be a showstopper. > IMHO we could reach the needed adoption level only if the > mobile phone (that everyone nowadays carries with him) is > the only needed spot. > If the mesh protocol is smart, I think the consumption problem > could be worked out. > Are you sure that I'm advocating the wrong way to go? It's not just consumption of power, transmission strength as well. Would you really feel safe placing a mobile device to your head that is transmitting a signal 10 or more times stronger than with GSM? Not such an issue if you mandate a headset, but it's still a health concern. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?
Luca Dionisi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote : > The problem is that you can reach much shorter distances > without the help of someone else's spot. Yep. Wimax has a better range, it's designed to replace "last mile" technology, ie. the phone line or cable between your local telco exchange and your house. But it's never been designed with mobile phones in mind AFAIK. Another technology would be satellite phone technology, however this again won't be open, won't be low power and satellite bandwidth is even more restricted than GSM. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?
On 8/7/07, Luca Dionisi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If the mesh protocol is smart, I think the consumption problem > could be worked out. And, BTW, I think that having to recharge the phone batteries once a day is a price that I would pay if it allows for a free communication channel with a whole city. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?
On 8/7/07, Mikko J Rauhala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > And also, wrt. mesh networking, you still don't really want to allow > your phone, while it's mobile, to work as a bridge in the mesh; > otherwise the battery would be dead in no time. But sure, advocate lots > of open access points and perhaps putting the phone in mesh mode if it's > hooked up to external power. And still there will be severe scalability > issues, but what the hey, it's possible for _some_ N, right? :] Yep. Anyway I would insist in finding a solution that doesn't rely heavily in access points. It would be a showstopper. IMHO we could reach the needed adoption level only if the mobile phone (that everyone nowadays carries with him) is the only needed spot. If the mesh protocol is smart, I think the consumption problem could be worked out. Are you sure that I'm advocating the wrong way to go? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?
On ti, 2007-08-07 at 12:14 +0200, Luca Dionisi wrote: > If I understand correctly, the real big problem, as for legal > issues and technical issues, is the GSM protocol. > > Using WiFi for a similar goal should be fine, though. > > The problem is that you can reach much shorter distances > without the help of someone else's spot. [...] > Do I mistake again? Not really, though I think I should again remind you that the _reason_ you get good range for your power with GSM is _because_ the towers centrally controls the frequencies and timeslots that the handsets use for transmissions, and everybody plays by those rules. And also, wrt. mesh networking, you still don't really want to allow your phone, while it's mobile, to work as a bridge in the mesh; otherwise the battery would be dead in no time. But sure, advocate lots of open access points and perhaps putting the phone in mesh mode if it's hooked up to external power. And still there will be severe scalability issues, but what the hey, it's possible for _some_ N, right? :] -- Mikko J Rauhala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> University of Helsinki ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
What's the real scope of hardware openness?
If I understand correctly, the real big problem, as for legal issues and technical issues, is the GSM protocol. Using WiFi for a similar goal should be fine, though. The problem is that you can reach much shorter distances without the help of someone else's spot. Suppose we would have such a great adoption of NEO or similar openmoko phones, in some areas at least, that we could do well even without the use of access points. It should be the point of this wishlist post: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Mesh_Networking Suppose also that the needed software gets deployed such as BATMAN, Netsukuku, whatsoever. Then we could get closer to the goal. (get rid of the bastards, you remember?) Do I mistake again? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: RE: package uboot-gta 01-1.2.0+svn: failed
Someone put the following hint about the broken uboot into the wiki: http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Talk:MokoMakefile&curid=2028&diff=16187&oldid=15769 But I don't know how to change the corresponding bitbake recipe to get revision 'cc3023b9f95d7ac959a764471a65001062aecf41' of uboot :-( Maybe someone of you knows how to do that? -- -- Kind regads Christoph ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Phase 1 sales / order process / misconception
Sébastien Lorquet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote : > Simple suggestion, I don't even known if it's feasible or not:Why not > having a simple website to track order status? Simply because it requires that all stages are computerised and requires interoperation between card merchant system, order system and packing/despatch. The larger retailers will have such a system. They receive an order, the card payment is taken automatically, the order is assigned a barcode number and then displayed on a screen at the warehouse. At the warehouse they collect an item, stick a barcode on it, scan it at the despatch machine. Then they call a courier and type in the reference in your order. A complex system which you would buy off the shelf more than likely and one that is designed for orders in thousands, not the double figured FIC are probably used to. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS data from gllin
2007/8/6, Ken Yale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hello, > > The GLLIN sends NMEA sentences to named pipe "/tmp/nmeaNP". > Got it! There was no fix inside the building. After I left neo for 20min outside it got sattelite fix. NMEA resources on Internet are realy helpful - if anyone has problem with GPS pls look at them. NMEA is simple ;) thx! cayco ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Phase 1 sales / order process / misconception
Thanks Harald for explaining what it's like at OpenMoko HQ right now. On 07/08/07, Andy Powell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > No offence Harald, but you seem to have missed the point of the > complaints. > It's not that people haven't received their Neo's it's that there has been > virtually no communication from anyone with regard to general order > status. > > People just want some sort of information or report on what is *generally* > happening with regard to orders. Indeed, to paraphrase Michael J Fox,: > > "...They're so thirsty for it, they'll crawl through the desert toward a > mirage and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand.." > I don't think it could be put better! I don't think it's Harald's place though, as the system level architect, to be keeping us updated on the overall scheme of things. I'd really appreciate it if the Program Manager could keep the community more informed. I'm not talking about one of Sean's long, eloquent and inspirational emails. Just a few bullet points every few days so we're not totally in the dark, desperately drinking sand. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Phase 1 sales / order process / misconception
Simple suggestion, I don't even known if it's feasible or not: Why not having a simple website to track order status? Maybe it already exists, don't know... I type my name or email and password and see "my order has been received, next step is billing" It means keeping a very clear track of every order, with consumer feedback when received. This should give the possibility to have a simple line Devices in stock: %d Shipped: %d Received: %d Even if it's psychological sugar, it may help everyone to remember that we are not left apart. 2007/8/7, Andy Powell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > On Tuesday 07 August 2007 08:27, Harald Welte wrote: > > Hi all! > > > > I tried to stay out of this entire discussion (like most non-technical > > discussions) for a long time. > > > > But I think there is just a big misconception of how and what at least > > certain people percieve and what is actually going on. > > No offence Harald, but you seem to have missed the point of the > complaints. > It's not that people haven't received their Neo's it's that there has been > virtually no communication from anyone with regard to general order > status. > > People just want some sort of information or report on what is *generally* > happening with regard to orders. Indeed, to paraphrase Michael J Fox,: > > "...They're so thirsty for it, they'll crawl through the desert toward a > mirage and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand.." > > It must have taken you 20 minutes to type your email and I don;t think you > addressed any of the most basic questions people have asked. > > > Andy > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -- Sébastien LORQUET - 이세영 (李世榮) Ingénieur ENSPG 2006 / ENSIMAG-ASI 2007 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo 1973 is sold out...
Shakthi Kannan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote : > I feel it is best for FIC/OpenMoko to have some kind of official > customer-support, where customers can just send their order queries, > to which official FIC/OpenMoko members and interested community > members can join. These interested community members could probably > help you guys in providing well-formatted replies to customers. With web tracking and computerised stock levels you probably wouldn't need one. This of course requires planning and computer systems to support it. But you save time and effort in the long run. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Phase 1 sales / order process / misconception
On Tuesday 07 August 2007 08:27, Harald Welte wrote: > Hi all! > > I tried to stay out of this entire discussion (like most non-technical > discussions) for a long time. > > But I think there is just a big misconception of how and what at least > certain people percieve and what is actually going on. No offence Harald, but you seem to have missed the point of the complaints. It's not that people haven't received their Neo's it's that there has been virtually no communication from anyone with regard to general order status. People just want some sort of information or report on what is *generally* happening with regard to orders. Indeed, to paraphrase Michael J Fox,: "...They're so thirsty for it, they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand.." It must have taken you 20 minutes to type your email and I don;t think you addressed any of the most basic questions people have asked. Andy ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo 1973 is sold out...
Hi, My thoughts below: You _never_ expect Oxford English from Asian people. Never. You should always go light on their English. It is not their native language! Poor lad. I feel sorry for him. Not sure what he got from Sean. I feel it is best for FIC/OpenMoko to have some kind of official customer-support, where customers can just send their order queries, to which official FIC/OpenMoko members and interested community members can join. These interested community members could probably help you guys in providing well-formatted replies to customers. When you go mass-market, you will really need one. You are going to get lot of e-mails like these. In my opinion, it is best to deal with customer product enquiries in a separate means, rather than this community list. Not that it is in anyway going to affect the enthusiasm of this community, but, it is good to logically separate functionality. Cheers, Shakthi -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Phase 1 sales / order process / misconception
On 07/08/07, Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi all! > > I tried to stay out of this entire discussion (like most non-technical > discussions) for a long time. > > But I think there is just a big misconception of how and what at least > certain people percieve and what is actually going on. > > First of all, OpenMoko is a very small company. We have 19 full-time > employees in Taipei, plus something like seven external people, mostly > developers, not all of them full time. > > Now think about this. 19 people to do everything, from sales through > software R&D, distribution, logistics, webshop, system administration, > handling all external inquiries, business development, and so on. This > does not include the hardware R&D team inside FIC Mobility, which is > smaller than OpenMoko. Sounds like a herculean task - I'll continue to wait quietly. Keep up the good work. -Pete Everybody in that team works overtime, for many months - even way before > starting the 'phase 1' sales. > > So starting to sell those developer previews is something that drains > every last resource that we have (and don't have). > > So please remember, this is an extremely small team, everyone doing the > best he can, trying to create a completely new class of mobile device. > > Starting to sell those units to _interested developers_ who want to help > building this device is something that puts a lot of additional load on > us. The community has been pressing us to release those devices as > early as possible, and that's what we did (after many mostly hardware > R&D delays). > > So if you have any kind of inquiry, remember that you are one of more > than 1000 other people who ordered in a very short timeframe. It's > almost impossible to give any reasonable response. And if every of > those > 1000 people inquire on the status of their order every day, then > we don't get anything done (especially not processing the actual orders) > but to respond to those status inquiries. > > I know this is a very insatisfactory situation. But please step back > for a minute and think about this consumer-like attitude of complaints > like "oh, you don't have the business process to handle orders". > > Yes, we don't have the business process. Yes, we don't have the people > and/or resources. But: Yes, we're still doing it. Selling unfinished > products to interested developers. Developers who have an idea how > difficult this project is, and who want to help us moving forward with > this project. > > But please don't think you're dealing with a multi-billion international > company with a sales and customer support department. You are dealing > with a bunch of [mostly technical] people who have a strange idea about > what kind of difference they could achieve in the world of mobile > devices. > > We have something like > 700 of your inquiries that nobody hasn't even > had a time to look at yet. I'm not even talking about the > 800 > inquiries that are somewhere being processed and have at least received > one response. > > Oh, and don't think that hiring more people will help. Think about how > long it takes for any new person to understand the process, and how much > time you need to spend to teach them. The outcome would be visible at > a time that phase-1 for GTA01 has long been finished. > > We're crazy because we're trying to do the impossible, with an > impossibly small amount of resources, and an impossibly small team. > > So please understand that it's also impossible for us to respond to > individual inquiries. You can place an order, you will get an order > confirmation. We charge the credit card, you will get a confirmation > that the payment has received. And you will get another message as soon > as your shipping has been made. You can cancel at any point in time > before the item is shipped by mailing CANCEL on an otherwise empty line > to your ticket. > > But please don't try to change addresses, inquire about the status > (which is clear based on the last mail you received), change the product > quantity, credit card number, or whatever. Any such inquiry is bound to > be responded in a way longer than acceptable timeframe, and will > probably not have a satisfactory answer anyway, plus it will delay > everythign else. > > Yes, this is no industry standard customer care. But hell, we are > selling to developers inside our own community, not to end-users !?! > > Thanks for your understanding. > > -- > - Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > http://openmoko.org/ > > > Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.op
RE: package uboot-gta 01-1.2.0+svn: failed
Giles Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote : > Richard Reichenbacher &lang=en">[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > It's nothing to do with git, my build system has been working fine. Last night > it broke. I suspect changes have been made so work can be done for either > GTA01 > and GTA02. Sorry, I'm referring to the other posting where it complains that chmod can't find a script. gitfm/git is a common one. If you run git and get a file manager then you need to install git the source control too. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo 1973 is sold out...
On Tue, 2007-08-07 at 08:18 +0100, Justyn Butler wrote: > Hi all, > > I contacted OpenMoko web shop about my order and quickly got a > response saying that they would process my order within the week. > > Then just now I received my "you've been charged" email, which is > great! > > So if anyone else is still worrying about the status of their order, I > strongly suggest you email the web shop and they will put your fears > to rest. I too emailed the web shop (and a FIC employee whom I saw popup on the community list) and got an instant reply + quite a number of correspondences since (and a your credit card has been charged message!). Go OpenMoko! -from an eager OpenMoko junkie > > cheers, > Justyn > > > > On 07/08/07, Bartlomiej Zdanowski AutoGuard Ltd. > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ian Stirling pisze: > > > No, it's not 'sold out since yesterday'. > > It's 'sold out since several weeks ago'. > > They had a certain amount of phones to ship - 500 to 1000, > > and they knew at least when the next lot of phones could be > > possibly available. > > They had someone working through a pile of phones, shipping > > them out. > > It does not take a genius to work out that with 2000+ > > orders, that they are not going to be able to meet orders. > > This needs to be communicated to potential developers in a > > timely fashion, not once the guy sticking the labels on > > realises that he's out of boxes. > > I do agree with Ian. My ticket no was over 3500 after 4 days > from OpenMoko Shop opening. I belive that it has a least > doubled. So as soon they received over 1000 extra orders they > should run next batch at Factory. But we can assume that they > didn't. > I agree that OpenMoko is very important project and we all > have to be patient but there are some basic market rules that > have to be obeyed. Some of people who are not patient enough > will just spend their money on iPhone or other concurrent > product and will leave OpenMoko. Still besides OpenMoko's > euphoria there's a great commercial deal for FIC which is > still *the only one* OpenMoko's platform manufacturer. And FIC > should have more respect to people who are involved in > OpenMoko and still interrested in buying their phone. > Other aspect is that the more NEO's will spread throught the > world the faster OpenMoko will be developed. > > Best regards, > > -- > Bartlomiej Zdanowski > Programmer > Product Research & Development Department > AutoGuard & Insurance Ltd. > > Omulewska 27 street > 04-128 Warsaw > Poland > phone +48 22 611 69 23 > www.autoguard.pl > > > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: package uboot-gta 01-1.2.0+svn: failed
Richard Reichenbacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote : > I am running into the same problem on Ubuntu 7.04 and running sudo > update-alternatives --config git yields: No alternatives for git. It's nothing to do with git, my build system has been working fine. Last night it broke. I suspect changes have been made so work can be done for either GTA01 and GTA02. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Sean Moss to speak at LinuxWorld Thursday, August 9, at 11:30
M8: Panel Discussion: Deploying Linux-based Handsets in the Real World 08/09/2007, 11:30 AM - 12:30 PM Moderator: Bill Weinberg, Embedded and Open Source Analyst / Consultant, Xandros. Speakers: Sean Moss-Pultz, Product Manager, FIC. John Ellis, Director of Carrier Market Development, Motorola. Brian Coughlin, 4G Product Development, Sprint. Satya Mallya, Director, Personal Sphere, Wireless & Terminals, Orange. This panel will bring together handset manufacturers, carriers and other mobile ecosystem players to provide perspectives on the emerging role of Linux in the mobile marketplace "post platform". In particular, this panel will focus on the benefits and challenges of deploying Linux-based handsets and rolling out value-added services based upon them. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: package uboot-gta 01-1.2.0+svn: failed
Actually I am getting a different error on the same package though. Woops. Fast forward README |2 +- 1 files changed, 1 insertions(+), 1 deletions(-) Warning: No merge candidate found because value of config option "branch.master.merge" does not match any remote branch fetched. No changes. Removing unused objects 100%... Done. NOTE: Creating tarball of git repository NOTE: Creating tarball of git checkout NOTE: package uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r12_6c33c78557ca6f8da68c01ce33e278695197d3f4_0_2632: task do_fetch: completed NOTE: package uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r12_6c33c78557ca6f8da68c01ce33e278695197d3f4_0_2632: task do_unpack: started NOTE: Unpacking /home/richard/moko/sources/git_www.denx.de.git.u-boot.git._master.tar.gz to /home/richard/moko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r12_6c33c78557ca6f8da68c01ce33e278695197d3f4_0_2632/ NOTE: Unpacking /home/richard/moko/sources/patches_svn.openmoko.org_.trunk.src.target.u-boot_2632_.tar.gz to /home/richard/moko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r12_6c33c78557ca6f8da68c01ce33e278695197d3f4_0_2632/ NOTE: package uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r12_6c33c78557ca6f8da68c01ce33e278695197d3f4_0_2632: task do_unpack: completed NOTE: package uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r12_6c33c78557ca6f8da68c01ce33e278695197d3f4_0_2632: task do_quilt: started ERROR: function do_quilt failed ERROR: log data follows (/home/richard/moko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r12_6c33c78557ca6f8da68c01ce33e278695197d3f4_0_2632/temp/log.do_quilt.13959) | Applying patch uboot-machtypes.patch | patching file include/asm-arm/mach-types.h | | Applying patch ext2load_hex.patch | patching file common/cmd_ext2.c | Hunk #1 succeeded at 245 (offset -34 lines). | | Applying patch uboot-mokoversion.patch | patching file tools/setlocalversion | | Applying patch uboot-s3c2410-warnings-fix.patch | patching file include/s3c2410.h | | Applying patch uboot-strtoul.patch | patching file lib_generic/vsprintf.c | | Applying patch uboot-cramfs_but_no_jffs2.patch | patching file fs/cramfs/cramfs.c | Hunk #1 FAILED at 27. | 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- rejects in file fs/cramfs/cramfs.c | patching file common/cmd_jffs2.c | Restoring fs/cramfs/cramfs.c | Restoring common/cmd_jffs2.c | Patch uboot-cramfs_but_no_jffs2.patch does not apply (enforce with -f) | Restoring fs/cramfs/cramfs.c | Restoring common/cmd_jffs2.c NOTE: Task failed: /home/richard/moko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r12_6c33c78557ca6f8da68c01ce33e278695197d3f4_0_2632/temp/log.do_quilt.13959 NOTE: package uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r12_6c33c78557ca6f8da68c01ce33e278695197d3f4_0_2632: task do_quilt: failed ERROR: TaskFailed event exception, aborting NOTE: package uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow: failed ERROR: Build of openmoko-devel-image failed make: *** [openmoko-devel-image] Error 1 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Reichenbacher Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 12:18 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: RE: package uboot-gta 01-1.2.0+svn: failed I am running into the same problem on Ubuntu 7.04 and running sudo update-alternatives --config git yields: No alternatives for git. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marcin Juszkiewicz Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 11:24 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: package uboot-gta 01-1.2.0+svn: failed Dnia wtorek, 7 sierpnia 2007, chetan nanda napisał: > Hi All, > > I am new to this community and i am trying to install openmoko on my > ubuntu 7.04. I got this Error msg. > NOTE: Retrieved remote revisions: ['0', '0', '2388', '0'] > > git, the filemanager with GNU Interactive Tools, is now called gitfm. > > If you are looking for git, Linus Torvald's content tracker, install > the cogito and git-core packages and see README.Debian and git(7). > > This transition script will be removed in the debian stable > release after etch. > > If you wish to complete the transition early, install git-core > and use (as root): > update-alternatives --config git > I have upgrade my git. and the again trying to make the openmoko image. > But again i got the same result > > Can any one guide me to solve the problem ? 1. sudo update-alternatives --config git 2. blame Linus Torvalds for choosing name of already existing project -- JID: hrw-jabber.org OpenEmbedded developer/consultant Aah, arrogance and stupidity, both in one package. How very efficient of you. [Londo] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list c
Re: package uboot-gta 01-1.2.0+svn: failed
Richard Reichenbacher wrote: I am running into the same problem on Ubuntu 7.04 and running sudo update-alternatives --config git yields: No alternatives for git. Try 'sudo apt-get install git-core cogito' then rerun update-alternatives as above. Cheers, Jim. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Neo1973 Phase 1 sales / order process / misconception
Hi all! I tried to stay out of this entire discussion (like most non-technical discussions) for a long time. But I think there is just a big misconception of how and what at least certain people percieve and what is actually going on. First of all, OpenMoko is a very small company. We have 19 full-time employees in Taipei, plus something like seven external people, mostly developers, not all of them full time. Now think about this. 19 people to do everything, from sales through software R&D, distribution, logistics, webshop, system administration, handling all external inquiries, business development, and so on. This does not include the hardware R&D team inside FIC Mobility, which is smaller than OpenMoko. Everybody in that team works overtime, for many months - even way before starting the 'phase 1' sales. So starting to sell those developer previews is something that drains every last resource that we have (and don't have). So please remember, this is an extremely small team, everyone doing the best he can, trying to create a completely new class of mobile device. Starting to sell those units to _interested developers_ who want to help building this device is something that puts a lot of additional load on us. The community has been pressing us to release those devices as early as possible, and that's what we did (after many mostly hardware R&D delays). So if you have any kind of inquiry, remember that you are one of more than 1000 other people who ordered in a very short timeframe. It's almost impossible to give any reasonable response. And if every of those > 1000 people inquire on the status of their order every day, then we don't get anything done (especially not processing the actual orders) but to respond to those status inquiries. I know this is a very insatisfactory situation. But please step back for a minute and think about this consumer-like attitude of complaints like "oh, you don't have the business process to handle orders". Yes, we don't have the business process. Yes, we don't have the people and/or resources. But: Yes, we're still doing it. Selling unfinished products to interested developers. Developers who have an idea how difficult this project is, and who want to help us moving forward with this project. But please don't think you're dealing with a multi-billion international company with a sales and customer support department. You are dealing with a bunch of [mostly technical] people who have a strange idea about what kind of difference they could achieve in the world of mobile devices. We have something like > 700 of your inquiries that nobody hasn't even had a time to look at yet. I'm not even talking about the > 800 inquiries that are somewhere being processed and have at least received one response. Oh, and don't think that hiring more people will help. Think about how long it takes for any new person to understand the process, and how much time you need to spend to teach them. The outcome would be visible at a time that phase-1 for GTA01 has long been finished. We're crazy because we're trying to do the impossible, with an impossibly small amount of resources, and an impossibly small team. So please understand that it's also impossible for us to respond to individual inquiries. You can place an order, you will get an order confirmation. We charge the credit card, you will get a confirmation that the payment has received. And you will get another message as soon as your shipping has been made. You can cancel at any point in time before the item is shipped by mailing CANCEL on an otherwise empty line to your ticket. But please don't try to change addresses, inquire about the status (which is clear based on the last mail you received), change the product quantity, credit card number, or whatever. Any such inquiry is bound to be responded in a way longer than acceptable timeframe, and will probably not have a satisfactory answer anyway, plus it will delay everythign else. Yes, this is no industry standard customer care. But hell, we are selling to developers inside our own community, not to end-users !?! Thanks for your understanding. -- - Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Visit OpenMoko at LinuxWorld!
OpenMoko has a booth at LinuxWorld in San Francisco this week. Come say hi! Booth number 1240, near the .org area. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: package uboot-gta 01-1.2.0+svn: failed
I am running into the same problem on Ubuntu 7.04 and running sudo update-alternatives --config git yields: No alternatives for git. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marcin Juszkiewicz Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 11:24 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: package uboot-gta 01-1.2.0+svn: failed Dnia wtorek, 7 sierpnia 2007, chetan nanda napisał: > Hi All, > > I am new to this community and i am trying to install openmoko on my > ubuntu 7.04. I got this Error msg. > NOTE: Retrieved remote revisions: ['0', '0', '2388', '0'] > > git, the filemanager with GNU Interactive Tools, is now called gitfm. > > If you are looking for git, Linus Torvald's content tracker, install > the cogito and git-core packages and see README.Debian and git(7). > > This transition script will be removed in the debian stable > release after etch. > > If you wish to complete the transition early, install git-core > and use (as root): > update-alternatives --config git > I have upgrade my git. and the again trying to make the openmoko image. > But again i got the same result > > Can any one guide me to solve the problem ? 1. sudo update-alternatives --config git 2. blame Linus Torvalds for choosing name of already existing project -- JID: hrw-jabber.org OpenEmbedded developer/consultant Aah, arrogance and stupidity, both in one package. How very efficient of you. [Londo] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo 1973 is sold out...
Hi all, I contacted OpenMoko web shop about my order and quickly got a response saying that they would process my order within the week. Then just now I received my "you've been charged" email, which is great! So if anyone else is still worrying about the status of their order, I strongly suggest you email the web shop and they will put your fears to rest. cheers, Justyn On 07/08/07, Bartlomiej Zdanowski AutoGuard Ltd. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ian Stirling pisze: > > No, it's not 'sold out since yesterday'. > It's 'sold out since several weeks ago'. > They had a certain amount of phones to ship - 500 to 1000, and they knew > at least when the next lot of phones could be possibly available. > They had someone working through a pile of phones, shipping them out. > It does not take a genius to work out that with 2000+ orders, that they > are not going to be able to meet orders. > This needs to be communicated to potential developers in a timely fashion, > not once the guy sticking the labels on realises that he's out of boxes. > > I do agree with Ian. My ticket no was over 3500 after 4 days from OpenMoko > Shop opening. I belive that it has a least doubled. So as soon they received > over 1000 extra orders they should run next batch at Factory. But we can > assume that they didn't. > I agree that OpenMoko is very important project and we all have to be > patient but there are some basic market rules that have to be obeyed. Some > of people who are not patient enough will just spend their money on iPhone > or other concurrent product and will leave OpenMoko. Still besides > OpenMoko's euphoria there's a great commercial deal for FIC which is still > *the only one* OpenMoko's platform manufacturer. And FIC should have more > respect to people who are involved in OpenMoko and still interrested in > buying their phone. > Other aspect is that the more NEO's will spread throught the world the > faster OpenMoko will be developed. > > Best regards, > -- > *Bartlomiej Zdanowski* > Programmer > Product Research & Development Department > AutoGuard & Insurance Ltd. > > Omulewska 27 street > 04-128 Warsaw > Poland > phone +48 22 611 69 23 > www.autoguard.pl > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
