FM radio reception on neo/openmoko and some other questions
1) Are there any working hacks for getting FM radio reception on the neo 1973? Even the $35 (total for the unlocked phone that will work with any network) Nokia phones have FM reception in india. This is a must have option for the Neo to sell in India. Most phones use the earplug cable assembly as their radio antenna. Is is possible to do that in the neo? 2) Will the GTA02 phone have the speaker phone option or is getting call sound on the speakers something that can be done by editing config files in openmoko? 3) Is it theoretically possible to print by directly connecting the printer to the phone if the printer drivers are avaliable (at least text files) 4) If someone writes a faxing application for openmoko should it not be possible to use the phone as a mobile fax sending and recieving unit? Thanks Rakshat ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FM radio reception on neo/openmoko and some other questions
Silicon Labs SI4700 and SI4701 are entire FM tuners on a single chip, and they are tiny. I have their USB FM Radio and I use it every day on my PC, and I believe the same chip is in my Sony Ericsson phone. This is the one that uses the earphone wire as antenna, although it can be separate, as is demonstrated in the USB FM radio implementation and also their devkit. The 4701 adds European Radio Data System (RDS) and US Radio Broadcast Data System (RBDS) which can capture the station identification and song name. This FM tuner would be a good choice for Neo. Silicon Labs also has an even smaller version, AM/FM version, and also FM transmitter chips that would allow playback on car stereo for example. I am planning to make some PCB boards with the SI4701 and minimal parts on them in the future, will be sold on ebay (I have surface mount reflow oven). See the Silicon Labs parts here: http://www.silabs.com/tgwWebApp/public/web_content/products/Broadcast/Radio_Tuners/en/Si4730-31_matrix.htm -- Doug ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FM radio reception on neo/openmoko and some other questions
On pe, 2007-11-09 at 16:35 +0530, rakshat hooja wrote: 1) Are there any working hacks for getting FM radio reception on the neo 1973? Even the $35 (total for the unlocked phone that will work with any network) Nokia phones have FM reception in india. This is a must have option for the Neo to sell in India. A weird market, India, then. And no, the Neo doesn't/won't have an FM receiver, as simple as that. (If you mean hacks as hardware, of course you can get something done but hard to make it clean, and hardware hacks don't really add to mainstream marketability.) 2) Will the GTA02 phone have the speaker phone option or is getting call sound on the speakers something that can be done by editing config files in openmoko? You can certainly stick the sound anywhere, but you'd need to do echo cancellation or some kind of push-to-talk. Possible, still. I don't really know how well the mic would pick up speech from a bit further away. Something to try out. If it doesn't, maybe for some needs it could be sufficient to use the headset mic and phone speaker, though a bit weird. 3) Is it theoretically possible to print by directly connecting the printer to the phone if the printer drivers are avaliable (at least text files) Yes, especially with the GTA02 (which can provide 100 mA USB power). The GTA01 is likely to require a power injector in between, so that the printer will realize it has something hooked into it. Also other USB 1.1 gadgets (that will settle for 100 mA or preferrably have internal power so the Neo's battery isn't drained) should work, if there are just Linux drivers for them (present on the system, of course, with supporting software). You should be able to offload a digital camera onto the Neo and/or through it to the net, for instance. 4) If someone writes a faxing application for openmoko should it not be possible to use the phone as a mobile fax sending and recieving unit? I'd be surprised if it wasn't, though I'm not 100% positive - faxing is of no interest to me personally so I've not verified it. Somebody chime in? -- Mikko J Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FM radio reception on neo/openmoko and some other questions
On Fri, 9 Nov 2007 06:46:16 -0500 Doug Sutherland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Silicon Labs SI4700 and SI4701 are entire FM tuners on a single chip, and they are tiny. I have their USB FM Radio and I use it every day on my PC, and I believe the same chip is in my Sony Ericsson phone. This is the one that uses the earphone wire as antenna, although it can be separate, as is demonstrated in the USB FM radio implementation and also their devkit. The 4701 adds European Radio Data System (RDS) and US Radio Broadcast Data System (RBDS) which can capture the station identification and song name. This FM tuner would be a good choice for Neo. Silicon Labs also has an even smaller version, AM/FM version, and also FM transmitter chips that would allow playback on car stereo for example. Implementing an FM sender would however make the Neo hard to sell on markets where personal FM transmitters are illegal (however weak the signal is) such as Sweden. At least it was still illegal when I was living there. cheers ./daniel -- daniel gustafsson ; daniel at hobbit dot se ; La Trobe University ; AU ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Manually usage of gsmd with libgsmd-tool
Hi, I'm having problems with registering with a carrier here in Denmark. The log: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ libgsmd-tool -m shell -vvv libgsm-tool - (C) 2006 by Harald Welte This program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY O # # Power-On EVENT: PIN request (type='SIM PIN') Please enter SIM PIN: 1283 sending pin='1283', newpin='' r # Register EVENT: Netreg searching for network EVENT: Netreg registration denied EVENT: Signal Quality: 29 EVENT: Signal Quality: 23 If I'm debugging with libgsmd-tool -m atcmd I get CME Error 32 which (according to http://www.activexperts.com/activsms/sms/gsmerrorcodes/) means Network not allowed, emergency calls only. It seems it something with my carrier's way to handle the registering, but I'm not sure. Does anybody know something about this issue? -- Regards, Mikkel Meyer Andersen ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FM radio reception on neo/openmoko and some other questions
On Nov 9, 2007 6:10 AM, Mike Hodson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He is talking about receiver chips, like those used in SonyEricsson/Nokia cellphones, to provide the phone owner with FM radio reception. Not to transmit say, music, to a radio. Or i also could have missed the final sentence in his paragraph. (Quantity vs quality of reading clouded my concentration by then) Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When will usb host driver be available in OM kernel?
Dnia piątek, 9 listopada 2007, Bartlomiej Zdanowski [Zdanek] napisał: As far as I know there's no USB host driver in OM kernel, so even if external USB device is self powered or power connector is attached there's no chance to connect anything to Neo. USB Host driver is present from nearly beginning and currently it is in module (ohci_hcd) and is loaded on start. Remember that Bluetooth chipset is on USB bus. What you asking is not usb host driver but usb host cable. IIRC someone tried and got it working. -- JID: hrw-jabber.org OpenEmbedded developer/consultant Alcohol may not solve any problems, but then again, neither does milk. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Manually usage of gsmd with libgsmd-tool
Hey Mikkel, Which carrier are you trying to register with. Just curious since I'm aming at buying a Neo GTA02 when it arrives, and thereby want to make sure that it works in Denmark. Best Regards, Jens On Fri, 2007-11-09 at 13:56 +0100, Mikkel Meyer Andersen wrote: Hi, I'm having problems with registering with a carrier here in Denmark. The log: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ libgsmd-tool -m shell -vvv libgsm-tool - (C) 2006 by Harald Welte This program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY O # # Power-On EVENT: PIN request (type='SIM PIN') Please enter SIM PIN: 1283 sending pin='1283', newpin='' r # Register EVENT: Netreg searching for network EVENT: Netreg registration denied EVENT: Signal Quality: 29 EVENT: Signal Quality: 23 If I'm debugging with libgsmd-tool -m atcmd I get CME Error 32 which (according to http://www.activexperts.com/activsms/sms/gsmerrorcodes/) means Network not allowed, emergency calls only. It seems it something with my carrier's way to handle the registering, but I'm not sure. Does anybody know something about this issue? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
When will usb host driver be available in OM kernel?
Hello. As far as I know there's no USB host driver in OM kernel, so even if external USB device is self powered or power connector is attached there's no chance to connect anything to Neo. When will it be available? You could provide it with other two drivers - mouse and keyboard, and that would be awesome. Other drivers would come next by porting some of them from other linux distros especially for devices such as memory sticks or web-cameras. What do you think about that? Best regards, -- *Bartlomiej Zdanowski* Programmer Product Research Development Department AutoGuard S.A. Place of registration: Regional Court for the Capital City of Warsaw Registration no.: 287629 Share capital: 1 059 000 PLN Polish VAT and tax ID no.: PL1132219747 Omulewska 27 street 04-128 Warsaw Poland phone +48 22 611 69 23 www.autoguard.pl http://www.autoguard.pl ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Is Google developing a phone after all?
Sorry to bring up the whole google phone thing again, but... I read the arm-linux Mailing list. Yesterday, Brian Swetland (Linux Kernel Lead, Android Project, Google) posted, announcing the public git tree for the Qualcomm MSM7K. This could just be the platform the android guys have been using for development. However, why would they go to all the trouble of porting Linux to a new SoC when there are many other already supported SoCs they could have used to develop on? I think this could be evidence that Google IS developing their own phone after all, one which will run Android. As I've already mentioned, another interesting thing I noticed was one of the Open Handset Alliance's members - The Astonishing Tribe (http://www.tat.se). They have some pretty slick GUI demos and their Kastor graphics engine supports OpenGL ES acceleration. Now look at the Qualcomm MSM7K's specs (http://www.cdmatech.com/products/msm7200_chipset_solution.jsp). Notice the high-end 3D accelerator. 1) I think Google IS developing their own phone after all 2) I think that phone will be based on the Qualcomm MSM7K 3) I think Android will be using Kastor as a rendering engine 4) If so, Android will look a lot like the Kastor demos on tat's website. (e.g. http://www.tat.se/images/demo/kastor_platform_01.mp4) Cheers, Tom ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On 8 Nov 2007, at 21:22, Robin Paulson wrote: ... i know it's got a gps and can e-mail/text us where it is, but that will only work if someone doesn't re-flash it and has other caveats on it working. ... I'd guess that only 1% of the population knows what a Neo looks like, or would even have the skill to reflash after learning about the Neo via Google. I think it's reaching to suggest that your Neo's going to fall into the hands of a crook who happens to be in that 1% of the population. From all the headlines we see on Slashdot / Reddit / wherever about thieves uploading photos from the webcam of a stolen laptop onto the owner's Flikr account, I'd be quite confident of a stolen piece of tech being used as-is at least for a number of days, until it reaches someone with the clues to push the factory-reset button. With a device like the Neo the biggest issue with automated I'm here messages is the risk of the battery running flat 7 the thief being unable to acquire a suitable charger. Stroller. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is Google developing a phone after all?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : 1) I think Google IS developing their own phone after all 2) I think that phone will be based on the Qualcomm MSM7K 3) I think Android will be using Kastor as a rendering engine 4) If so, Android will look a lot like the Kastor demos on tat's website. (e.g. http://www.tat.se/images/demo/kastor_platform_01.mp4) It's probably a reference platform and one for developers. A bare minimum specification. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Is Google developing a phone after all?
1) I think Google IS developing their own phone after all 2) I think that phone will be based on the Qualcomm MSM7K 3) I think Android will be using Kastor as a rendering engine 4) If so, Android will look a lot like the Kastor demos on tat's website. (e.g. http://www.tat.se/images/demo/kastor_platform_01.mp4) It's probably a reference platform and one for developers. A bare minimum specification. It can't be the bare minimum as they've already said the minimum is an ARM9 and that Qualcomm is an ARM11. Plus, why port to a new platform when there are plenty of development kits for ARM9 (and event ARM11 these days) which support Linux out of the box. They could have used a Gumstix. They didn't, they ported Linux to a completely new family of SoC - no simple task. Just ask the OpenMoko Kernel developers! :-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is Google developing a phone after all?
On Friday 09 November 2007 15:00:19 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: development. However, why would they go to all the trouble of porting Linux to a new SoC when there are many other already supported SoCs they could have used to develop on? I think this could be evidence that Google IS developing their own phone after all, one which will run Android. I wouldn't be surprised if Google made a prototype/reference phone, for testing (just like Trolltech did with the Greenphone) and to eliminate any hardware obstacles/delays that might be caused by other manufacturers. I'm not that certain that this automatically means this phone will be a mainstream product pushed to end users. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is Google developing a phone after all?
Hi thomas, thanx for investigating, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I've already mentioned, another interesting thing I noticed was one of the Open Handset Alliance's members - The Astonishing Tribe (http://www.tat.se). But why joined TAT on the 5 november, the day of the press release? isn't this a little bit late or just another reason to believe they use TAT, cause they don't wanted to spoil the whole thing with TAT oh their list even earlier? stefan smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FM radio reception on neo/openmoko and some other questions
He is talking about receiver chips, like those used in SonyEricsson/Nokia cellphones, to provide the phone owner with FM radio reception. Not to transmit say, music, to a radio. Well I mentioned both, and they are separate chips. There is plain FM, FM with RDS/RBDS, AM/FM and also FM transmitters and receivers available from Silicon Labs. I have FM radio on my phone now and don't use it very much, it's definitely not a show stopper, in fact for Neo even GPS is not a requirement for me, main concern is the quad band (future, sorry for all my whining), good quality audio (wolfson is very good choice), and the WIFI sounds great. Bluetooth makes sense. Camera, GPS, and other add-ons not needed, for me anyways, I don't expect this device to be the only one. -- Doug ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Is Google developing a phone after all?
But why joined TAT on the 5 november, the day of the press release? isn't this a little bit late or just another reason to believe they use TAT, cause they don't wanted to spoil the whole thing with TAT oh their list even earlier? Good question... I had assumed 5th November is just when the announcement came out and that they had been working together behind closed doors for some time. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Nov 9, 2007 7:34 AM, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With a device like the Neo the biggest issue with automated I'm here messages is the risk of the battery running flat 7 the thief being unable to acquire a suitable charger. Stroller. The way I see it, this isn't an issue if you have to ping the phone for it to respond. Here is my example scenario: I find out that my phone is lost. I text it with a magic gps keyword/phrase and it responds with its position. As I will most likely be using my email account to send thru the carrier's sms gateway, the phone will autoformat the reply as a google maps url for ease of clicking. I look and find that my phone is somewhere ive never been so i know its stolen and not lost in my room. At this point i send another keyword/phrase to tell it that its stolen. The phone will then automatically lock down into a mode where its still usable as a phone, so that the thief doesnt get any weird ideas of just turning it off and throwing it somewhere cos he cant use it, maybe let him call a few friends, but there will be NO access to the normal phonebook, certain apps will be disabled/no longer show up, and any attempts of texting would silently be forwarded to me along with their recipient. Keep the thief thinking he has a new toy for himself. From here I could call the police and have them talk to the thief. I'd provide them turn by turn directions. ;) Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is Google developing a phone after all?
Dnia piątek, 9 listopada 2007, Attila Csipa napisał: I wouldn't be surprised if Google made a prototype/reference phone, for testing (just like Trolltech did with the Greenphone) and to eliminate any hardware obstacles/delays that might be caused by other manufacturers. Trolltech did not produced Greenphone - it is product of external company. -- JID: hrw-jabber.org OpenEmbedded developer/consultant bloody internet there was once peace and then the internet came in :-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is Google developing a phone after all?
Dnia piątek, 9 listopada 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] napisał: announcing the public git tree for the Qualcomm MSM7K. This could just be the platform the android guys have been using for development. However, why would they go to all the trouble of porting Linux to a new SoC when there are many other already supported SoCs they could have used to develop on? I think this could be evidence that Google IS developing their own phone after all, one which will run Android. They want atleast UMTS in phone and Qualcomm is one of vendors which has own UMTS implementation. And probably it allows to use one chip as main CPU and as baseband CPU. -- JID: hrw-jabber.org OpenEmbedded developer/consultant Programming consists of 50% planning, 50% coding and 30% mathematics ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FM radio reception on neo/openmoko and some other questions
Doug Sutherland wrote: I am planning to make some PCB boards with the SI4701 and minimal parts on them in the future, will be sold on ebay (I have surface mount reflow oven). See the Silicon Labs parts here: http://www.silabs.com/tgwWebApp/public/web_content/products/Broadcast/Radio_Tuners/en/Si4730-31_matrix.htm -- Doug ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Hi ! Just let me know (personal mail, mailing list) when you're starting up with this issue, I've been planning that too so why not developing it together if its possible? . Georg ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FM radio reception on neo/openmoko and some other questions
Daniel Gustafsson wrote: Implementing an FM sender would however make the Neo hard to sell on markets where personal FM transmitters are illegal (however weak the signal is) such as Sweden. At least it was still illegal when I was living there. cheers ./daniel ahm - we're talking about home-made extensions, not about a new hardware-revision for the Neo, as far as I understood that.. -- Georg Michelitsch Sonnenstraße 12, 8071 Vasoldsberg Österreich - Austria - Autriche Tel.: +43-664-9417167 mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Battery time
Hi John! That was a very long, detailed and good answer. Exactly what I needed. The fact that the battery time is over 7 hours rather than 3 (like most laptops) gives me faith that it will be quite enough for me. Big thanks! /Oliver ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Friday 09 November 2007 17:14, Mike Hodson wrote: On Nov 9, 2007 7:34 AM, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With a device like the Neo the biggest issue with automated I'm here messages is the risk of the battery running flat 7 the thief being unable to acquire a suitable charger. Stroller. The way I see it, this isn't an issue if you have to ping the phone for it to respond. Here is my example scenario: I find out that my phone is lost. I text it with a magic gps keyword/phrase and it responds with its position. Which will only work when the thief is friendly enough to turn the phone on with the same sim-card installed, otherwise, what number would you text to? I'm guessing most GSM thiefs are smart enough to remove the SIM first. This does lead to another intresting angle, you could make the phone send it's location when the SIM card is changed. I doubt you will drain the battery very fast when you only send a location every 10 minutes or so. That should not make a huge difference on battery consumption, but be enough to retrieve it. AVee -- You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is Google developing a phone after all?
On Friday 09 November 2007 16:07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) I think Google IS developing their own phone after all 2) I think that phone will be based on the Qualcomm MSM7K 3) I think Android will be using Kastor as a rendering engine 4) If so, Android will look a lot like the Kastor demos on tat's website. (e.g. http://www.tat.se/images/demo/kastor_platform_01.mp4) It's probably a reference platform and one for developers. A bare minimum specification. It can't be the bare minimum as they've already said the minimum is an ARM9 and that Qualcomm is an ARM11. Plus, why port to a new platform when there are plenty of development kits for ARM9 (and event ARM11 these days) which support Linux out of the box. They could have used a Gumstix. They didn't, they ported Linux to a completely new family of SoC - no simple task. Just ask the OpenMoko Kernel developers! :-) But did anybody say it was google's idea to use this SoC first? Qualcomm is part of this consortium, and I guess they are only there because they hope it allows them to sell more chips. I can imagine Qualcomm presuring Google to implement on their latest-greatest chip first. If this platform runs on a dozen SoCs from a dozen manufacturers from the beginning there little reason left for Qualcomm to join, but now they may become the first manufacturer with a 'Android capable' SoC. I doubt google will release a phone of their own, but it is indeed higly likely that the first Android phone will be based on the Qualcomm MSM7K. That's what consortiums are about, doing each other those kind of favors. AVee -- It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes. -- Douglas Adams ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Nov 9, 2007 9:38 AM, AVee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which will only work when the thief is friendly enough to turn the phone on with the same sim-card installed, otherwise, what number would you text to? I'm guessing most GSM thiefs are smart enough to remove the SIM first. You don't know the common street person. Atleast here in the USA where GSM is a bit of a nonstandard. I worked at Radio Shack for 4 years, and the majority of the customerbase I sold them to really had no clue about how gsm worked or what the card was for. Some enterprising people might, but thats covered by the next bit This does lead to another intresting angle, you could make the phone send it's location when the SIM card is changed. I doubt you will drain the battery very fast when you only send a location every 10 minutes or so. That should not make a huge difference on battery consumption, but be enough to retrieve it. Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Battery time
John Locke wrote: Hello, I was running Qtopia for 5 or 6 weeks, and under that, I was getting about 5 hours of time tops, whether I used the phone or not. The battery indicator has 5 bars, and after a good 4 hours, there would still be 3 bars left (60%, or so you might think). But by that point, the power dropped very quickly and the phone would just shut off. I managed to flash OpenMoko on the Neo last weekend, even with my broken Aux button (had to take off the faceplate and carefully hold the contact in place, but managed to do it...). I just now got in after having it unplugged for 7 hours, and the battery still shows mostly full. I had set the power management to Dim Only, and with that alone OpenMoko seems to be doing much better than Qtopia. I also notice that the phone is not so hot--Qtopia seems to have it running full power almost all the time. Other notes: Qtopia (Image from around October 7) You might try the flash images available from Trolltech. http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/ I just posted the 4.3.0 release image. * Phone seems to stop working after a few days, and needs to be rebooted. There's no indication when this has happened--you just can't make or receive calls anymore. Haven't seen this one, but I admit, I am always flashing my neo. Will try to look into it though. * Rebooting didn't actually work--I nearly always had to remove the battery to reboot. Try a more recent image. * There was a delay in audio switching, both on outgoing and incoming calls. I never heard the first few words people answered with--I had to start talking when I heard the audio switch, without knowing whether I had actually reached the right person. You never heard a remote line ring--the audio would switch after the call was answered, whether by a person or voicemail. The later was fixed in later version. * SMS is beautiful, when the message arrives when the phone was on. * There's no voicemail indicator--but I received empty text messages when there was a new voicemail, and again after clearing the message. Will look into this. * Phone numbers on the SIM card showed up in the address book. * You can't redial a number or pick a number out of the call history to dial (I think it assumes you have a hard button for that). will look at this one, and submit a bug report. * Dialing a number in the address book works fine, though the button to do it is hard to press with a finger (most other things in Qtopia worked easily without the pen) * You get an echo sound at first, but can use alsamixer to turn down the sidetone and then the phone sounds perfectly normal. * No mediaplayer, feed reader, or all the other cool stuff that's in OpenMoko. * Keyboard auto-completes far too easily (and wrong most of the time) but the zoom keys are actually usable with fingers. * No terminal. Ugh. Do you really need a terminal app on a phone? Most phones do not have a term on them. besides, it is opensource, so anyone could get one working. Any takers? * GPRS doesn't work. Didn't get my bluetooth headset working, either. This is because multiplexing doesn't work either. In Qtopia, GPRS works through the multiplex classes. We don't see a reason to shut off the voice channel to use it as a data channel, or somesuch as the comm guy told me. Thanks for this, it is always useful to get more feedback. Anyone else willing to give feedback it is welcomed. You can even send me an email off list. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FM radio reception on neo/openmoko and some other questions
Doug Sutherland wrote: Georg, My original plan was to design a generic add-on board for embedded single board computers that includes an audio codec, FM tuner, and optional text-to-speech. I still have that plan but may make several variants on this, I have lots of interest in mobile audio beyond what is available today. TI has chips that can convert USB audio (driverless on host) to I2S and/or S/PDIF, which would allow for some really interesting possibilities in supporting different kinds of codecs, DACs, ADCs, DSPs, faders etc. Is it only the FM tuner you are interested in? Do you have skills with Eagle CAD? I have surface mount reflow oven and can solder any part easily. I also have Eagle commercial version but at the moment do not have a lot of time. If you want to work with me on schematics and CAD design for starters that would be cool. Look at the TI PCM29xx USB audio codecs, this is a way to interface via USB to other audio devices. It is also interesting that Neo uses WM8753, as I have been wanting to work with this part for a long time, since it has dual audio codecs voice and hifi. The TI TAS3103 also looks pretty interesting. I have some SI4701 FM tuner chips here already, have their USB FM radio stick which is really a demo of the chipset, and have collected lots of info on these. I also have sample WM8753, will be getting more, and development boards for both of these chips eventually. -- Doug Doug Sutherland Proficio Research http://www.proficio.ca/ Doug, my skills concerning all that are very limited, because I've got no education going deep enough into electronics - just wanted to mention that in the beginning. Nevertheless I'm very interested to learn some things. I already can handle eagle and I'm able to understand some smaller circuits, but I'm just a beginner! My primary interest is in a FM transmitter and receiver (but your proposal doesn't sound bad, in the contrary). I already spoke to a friend of mine who's a lot more qualified to realise that than me, who's interested in building that too. (and who eventually may help) At the moment I'm quite occupied with the preparations for a big examen end of November but after this one I should have more time to get an insight into the codecs and chips you mentioned and maybe even contribute some assistance as far as possible. . Georg ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is Google developing a phone after all?
On Friday 09 November 2007 17:43:25 Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote: Dnia piątek, 9 listopada 2007, Attila Csipa napisał: I wouldn't be surprised if Google made a prototype/reference phone, for testing (just like Trolltech did with the Greenphone) and to eliminate any hardware obstacles/delays that might be caused by other manufacturers. Trolltech did not produced Greenphone - it is product of external company. If you mean produced as in manufactured, that's just as the Neo is AFAIK produced by FIC and the phone mentioned by the OP is produced by Qualcom... You really have to be a big player to have your own successful and economically viable in-house production. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: The 850 MHz issue
I realize the 850mhz issue is complex and you can't give an answer right away, but I'd like to know when we could expect one? I'm one of the many North American's who needs the 850 band, and If I know it's coming I'm going to start doing some software dev, if it's not I'll start looking elsewhere. -Will On Nov 7, 2007 2:29 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was a little imprecise here. The circuit design, and thus board layout, is what limits the handset to 3 bands. The components selected (along with firmware and certification) select the 900/1800/1900MHz bands. Michael Randall Mason wrote: Michael said above that it was a question of a physical hardware change: The chipset is capable of quad band but the board was laid out to only support 3 bands. So, 850Mhz is not supported on the GTA01 board. Instead we support 900/1800/1900MHz. Board layout is a hardware issue. On 11/6/07, *Tim Shannon* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just curious, I don't know much about the hardware in question, but is it just a firmware issue, or does the hardware have to physically change to move between the 900 or the 850 frequency? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Randall Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FM radio reception on neo/openmoko and some other questions
Georg, The amazing thing about these Silicon Labs parts is that they require almost no external components. For example the SI470x FM tuners require a crystal and regulator, that is all, they can use headphone cable as antenna (as is done in most phones now), and they have stereo analog output and SPI interface for control and for getting the RDS/RDBS station identification and song info as text. Those analog outputs could feed right into a TI PCM2900 and then you have a driverless USB audio FM tuner. Without access to SPI though a small microcontroller would be required. Could be done with a $2 ARM7 or Cortex-M3. I haven't looked too closely at the FM transmitters or receivers yet, but I'll take a look and see what kind of external components are required. So you're not even interested in FM tuner, just FM transmitters and receivers? BTW I also have hardware based text-to-speech chips here that work really well and also require few components, they are UART input and analog and/or digital audio output, I have already made one full speech synth for someone using them and have several more chipsets here. I am actually more interested in speech based interfaces to phones and PDAs than the fancy GUIs, might be interesting to bolt one onto a Neo at some point. My phone should READ web pages and email to me and whisper in my ear. -- Doug ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On 9 Nov 2007, at 18:45, Mike Hodson wrote: ... Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. Of course this begs the question* - what if they DON'T change the SIM card? Some suggestions were made last month: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-October/011001.html I can't remember all the details, but I think the conclusion was that anti-theft systems should be possible. Stroller. * Common usage of begs the question - no semantics flamewars, please. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. But this obviously can't become part of the base system; it's a bad idea for many people. I (and many others I know) legitimately switch SIMs several times a year (when travelling to Europe), and don't need to be worried about false alarms. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
Then I send a special SMS which switches the Neo to stolen mode :) 2007/11/9, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 9 Nov 2007, at 18:45, Mike Hodson wrote: ... Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. Of course this begs the question* - what if they DON'T change the SIM card? Some suggestions were made last month: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-October/011001.html I can't remember all the details, but I think the conclusion was that anti-theft systems should be possible. Stroller. * Common usage of begs the question - no semantics flamewars, please. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- http://www.gnuffy.org - Real Community Distro http://www.gnuffy.org/index.php/GnuEm - Gnuffy on Ipaq (Codename Peggy) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FM radio reception on neo/openmoko and some other questions
Doug Sutherland wrote: Georg, The amazing thing about these Silicon Labs parts is that they require almost no external components. For example the SI470x FM tuners require a crystal and regulator, that is all, they can use headphone cable as antenna (as is done in most phones now), and they have stereo analog output and SPI interface for control and for getting the RDS/RDBS station identification and song info as text. Those analog outputs could feed right into a TI PCM2900 and then you have a driverless USB audio FM tuner. Without access to SPI though a small microcontroller would be required. Could be done with a $2 ARM7 or Cortex-M3. I haven't looked too closely at the FM transmitters or receivers yet, but I'll take a look and see what kind of external components are required. So you're not even interested in FM tuner, just FM transmitters and receivers? BTW I also have hardware based text-to-speech chips here that work really well and also require few components, they are UART input and analog and/or digital audio output, I have already made one full speech synth for someone using them and have several more chipsets here. I am actually more interested in speech based interfaces to phones and PDAs than the fancy GUIs, might be interesting to bolt one onto a Neo at some point. My phone should READ web pages and email to me and whisper in my ear. -- Doug ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Doug, I'm interested in a FM transmitter in order to for example listen to my music on my car's radio. A receiver (tuner?) would be nice in order to listen to radio on the phone. Well I think I mixed up receiver and tuner as I'm not native english-speaking.. So if I've understood right a receiver already plays the music on the radio, while a tuner passes the data to another device (in this case the phone?) .. Then what I want is a FM transmitter and a tuner :) What you've mentioned that far sounds interesting, but you're talking about USB.. Are there some internal usb-ports on the Neo or how are you planning to add this extension to it? By plugging it into the external usb-port? Your voice-to-text and voice-to-input project sound interesting too but my primary interest for the moment concerns the FM transmitter/tuner project. . Georg ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FM radio reception on neo/openmoko and some other questions
On 11/9/07, Georg Michelitsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I'm interested in a FM transmitter in order to for example listen to my music on my car's radio. /snip This could also enable some really cool speakerphone abilities, as long as we can then filter the audio input to remove the echo -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FM radio reception on neo/openmoko and some other questions
There is an interesting speaker phone codec made by cirrus logic http://www.cirrus.com/en/products/pro/detail/P1006.html They are in stock at digikey -- Doug___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. Here's an idea. Let's say that the phone keeps a complete history of it's movement in space and time (or spacetime, if you like). Let's say we set it to check it's position every minute or so (is this viable, with respect to the battery capacity)? Let's say we set it it to send it's position on every significant change of direction (i.e. taking a turn), but only when it moves to coordinates it hasn't moved to before. This data push might be in batch to conserve power/bandwidth, sending info every 20 minutes or so. This seems wasteful (battery-wise), but I suspect a great many people travel the same 200 km 99% of the time so the phone would simply not send anything most of the time. Effects? While you're using your phone, you're building something that could become an openstreetmap map of your movements which is very commendable. Good for you! :) When you're phone is stolen - and the above behavior is made SIM-independent - you get regular tips on where your phone is and how it got there. The only thing a thief could do is sabotage/overwrite the program...or to keep moving. :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Nov 9, 2007 1:24 PM, Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But this obviously can't become part of the base system; it's a bad idea for many people. I (and many others I know) legitimately switch SIMs several times a year (when travelling to Europe), and don't need to be worried about false alarms. This is based upon my habits: this would be a one-carrier phone with no reason to switch it in my day-to-day use. For me, if the card changed, I wouldnt be the one doing it. And if I were, well, i know I made my phone act this way :) This is simply my personal idea that I will make happen. Not part of the mainline code. Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Nov 9, 2007 3:36 PM, Tomi N/A [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's an idea. Let's say that the phone keeps a complete history of it's movement in space and time (or spacetime, if you like). ... When you're phone is stolen - and the above behavior is made SIM-independent - you get regular tips on where your phone is and how it got there. The only thing a thief could do is sabotage/overwrite the program...or to keep moving. :) This is yet another great idea. One consideration with regard to power: I'm not entirely sure how much network traffic my 2 year old CDMA LG from Sprint uses while doing this sort of positional mapping (I use the Allsport GPS program while I bikeride actually, works rather nicely and gives gmaps as output) but assuming only 1 network ping to get ephemeris data, the phone dies after about 6 hours. I've estimated its position fixing to be about once every 2-3 seconds. To be considered, however, is that while in a java applet my phone never turns off the display; it only dims. Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
bug labs - comparison?
It seems bug labs don't have a GSM module in mind, but nevertheless, their idea seems very interesting. I'd like to hear other opinions... Cheers, Tomislav ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: The 850 MHz issue
On Tuesday 06 November 2007 03:36, Jon wrote: I'd suggest everyone find their country on GSM World: http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/index.shtml and check their providers. Unfortunately some of the maps don't differentiate between 850 and 1900 (for example Rogers Wireless in Canada). The other two Canadian carriers listed, and the Mexican seem to be 1900 only. So it looks like the US just wants to be different, as usual. Afaik the first GSM phones all used 900Mhz. Some time later the 1800 and 1900 frequencies where added. The 850 frequency was introduced far later, I guess that's because the 900 band is used for something else in the US, at least, I hope that's the reason. AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Friday 09 November 2007 21:24, Ian Darwin wrote: Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. But this obviously can't become part of the base system; it's a bad idea for many people. I (and many others I know) legitimately switch SIMs several times a year (when travelling to Europe), and don't need to be worried about false alarms. Well, it should provide some way of switching sim-cards anyway and even I wouldn't want to see it enabled by default. But when that is covered, I don't know why it couldn't be a part of the base system. It this kind of stuff which sets OpenMoko apart from an 'normal' smartphone. But I do agree there it should be handled properly, otherwise it will become useless in practice. AVee -- Do not believe in miracles -- rely on them. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:24:25 -0500 Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. But this obviously can't become part of the base system; it's a bad idea for many people. I (and many others I know) legitimately switch SIMs several times a year (when travelling to Europe), and don't need to be worried about false alarms. turn off sim-change-alarm change sim turn on sim-change-alarm (if you never want it, never turn it on in the first place) of course i assume you can turn it off. the idea being a thief doesn't know this phone and all its intricate settings (maybe you need a pin number to turn it on/off to make sure the thief can't just read the manual first then turn it off. doesn't stop reflashing - but let's assume the thief isn't that high-tech yet). maybe you can register sims? put in a new sim and a dialog comes up new unregistered sim? register? (and then enter your pin # to register. if you don't the sim is accepted but the phone goes into silent alarm mode). in the end - this is what an open phone is all about. all of you are discussing solutions and various attacks that may or may not work for you to secure your phone in the event of loss. in the end you can write whatever works for you and put it on! :) OpenMoko is not going to even think of stopping you :) We're going to give a helping hand. :) -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Qtopia flash image 11/9
Lorn, I just flashed over the latest image you uploaded. Upon receiving a call, the phone does not ring, I cannot hear the other person they cannot hear me and the alarm clock doesn't ring. Odd thing though is that when I place a call I can be heard and they can hear me. I'm also curious what the state is with getting the gsmhandset.state file working properly. The feedback from the gsm antennae is still very loud and noticeable. Do you think this might be a hardware design flaw from mic being located too close to the gsm antenna? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia flash image 11/9
Richard Reichenbacher wrote: Lorn, I just flashed over the latest image you uploaded. Upon receiving a call, the phone does not ring, I cannot hear the other person they cannot hear me and the alarm clock doesn't ring. Odd thing though is that when I place a call I can be heard and they can hear me. I'm also curious what the state is with getting the gsmhandset.state file working properly. The feedback from the gsm antennae is still very loud and noticeable. Do you think this might be a hardware design flaw from mic being located too close to the gsm antenna? Actually it's odd. All of a sudden with the last phone call I recieved the state switching seems to have fixed itself. Everything from the alarm, phone calls and media player work fine. I did have to restart qtopia a few times, maybe that did it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia flash image 11/9
Richard Reichenbacher wrote: Richard Reichenbacher wrote: Lorn, I just flashed over the latest image you uploaded. Upon receiving a call, the phone does not ring, I cannot hear the other person they cannot hear me and the alarm clock doesn't ring. Odd thing though is that when I place a call I can be heard and they can hear me. I'm also curious what the state is with getting the gsmhandset.state file working properly. The feedback from the gsm antennae is still very loud and noticeable. Do you think this might be a hardware design flaw from mic being located too close to the gsm antenna? I believe it's just a matter of tweaking the mixer. I have been working on an alsamixer for Qtopia, mostly done but it is not finished yet. It can do simple volume stuff, but it doesn't do the more complicated enumerated switches in the Neo's mixer. I also want to make it support loading of alsa states to be able to set the mixer levels of any of the states. You can adjust the volume of the call, when in the call by going to Settings-Call Options-Call Volume. But it doesn't save this state and will only adjust the volumes of the current state. Actually it's odd. All of a sudden with the last phone call I recieved the state switching seems to have fixed itself. Everything from the alarm, phone calls and media player work fine. I did have to restart qtopia a few times, maybe that did it. Not sure if thats good or bad. :) I have noticed some oddities on first boot as well. Sim contacts don't always seem to get populated. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Moved page for those interested in second hand Neos
I have moved the wiki page for those interested in buying a second hand Neo to- http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Interested_in_second_hand_neo The page for users wanting to sell their GTA01 devices remains at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/US_850_band_users_wanting_to_sell_Neo Regards, Rakshat ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
