Re: Loosing your moko

[Sven Klomp]

On Thursday 10 April 2008 01:17:51 Denis wrote:
> Centralized database is evil. I'm going to use my own server for
> tracking my Neo. I think it's the only way to keep privacy.

I don't know if it was already mentioned, but encryption of the GPS data might 
be a solution to keep privacy.

Sven

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Re: GSoC 08 status update

[Stefan Schmidt]

Hello.

On Wed, 2008-04-09 at 09:19, Jacob Thebault-Spieker wrote:
> As a student, those numbers are frightening :). Is there any way that  
> we, as students, can find out where our application stands
> currently?

I haven't discussed this with the other mentors, but personally I
think this would be a bad idea. Having this public would bring in way
to much emotions into this process.

> 2 weeks is a long time to wait :). I understand if OpenMoko doesn't want  
> to release that, but I thought it might be worth asking

Yeah, 2 weeks are hard. Not much we can do against it. :(

regards
Stefan Schmidt


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Who is who ?

[openmoko]

As many people, I guess, I sometime wonder if a certain person answering 
a question on this mailing list or an other is trustful or not.


To exactly know who is who, I propose to make a list of members on the wiki.
Cause I didn't found such a page, I created one (Sorry if it already exists)

So, I invite all of you to "register" on the list :  
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Whoiswho


Thanks.

PS : Sorry if my English is not perfect.


-
Sleg, future owner ;)

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Re: Loosing your moko

[Didier Raboud]

Sven Klomp wrote:

> On Thursday 10 April 2008 01:17:51 Denis wrote:
>> Centralized database is evil. I'm going to use my own server for
>> tracking my Neo. I think it's the only way to keep privacy.
> 
> I don't know if it was already mentioned, but encryption of the GPS data
> might be a solution to keep privacy.
> 
> Sven

This doesn't solve it all...

Let's assume that the decryption key is given to the user with its Neo. It
sill means that Openmoko created that key (and thus knows it)...

Didier


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RE: Who is who ?

[Rogen, Mario]

Maybe you should add a realname field because most of the people on the
list use their realname for posting and their nick everywhere else (IRC,
wiki,...)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:11 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Who is who ?

As many people, I guess, I sometime wonder if a certain person answering
a question on this mailing list or an other is trustful or not.

To exactly know who is who, I propose to make a list of members on the
wiki.
Cause I didn't found such a page, I created one (Sorry if it already
exists)

So, I invite all of you to "register" on the list :  
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Whoiswho

Thanks.

PS : Sorry if my English is not perfect.


-
Sleg, future owner ;)

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Re: locale the openmoko

[赵经纬]

hi
  thank you for your reply!
  now , i come to some problems with openmoko
  i want to connect to the internet with qemuarm, and it can display english
website clearly!
but can't display the chinese character,such as 中国.
  how to do ?


thanks !
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Re: Who is who ?

[openmoko]

You're right.

I added it, so as the nationality field.

Rogen, Mario a écrit :

Maybe you should add a realname field because most of the people on the
list use their realname for posting and their nick everywhere else (IRC,
wiki,...)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:11 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Who is who ?

As many people, I guess, I sometime wonder if a certain person answering
a question on this mailing list or an other is trustful or not.

To exactly know who is who, I propose to make a list of members on the
wiki.
Cause I didn't found such a page, I created one (Sorry if it already
exists)

So, I invite all of you to "register" on the list :  
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Whoiswho


Thanks.

PS : Sorry if my English is not perfect.


-
Sleg, future owner ;)

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Re: Loosing your moko

[Sven Klomp]

On Thursday 10 April 2008 10:19:22 Didier Raboud wrote:
> Sven Klomp wrote:
> 
> > On Thursday 10 April 2008 01:17:51 Denis wrote:
> >> Centralized database is evil. I'm going to use my own server for
> >> tracking my Neo. I think it's the only way to keep privacy.
> > 
> > I don't know if it was already mentioned, but encryption of the GPS data
> > might be a solution to keep privacy.
> > 
> > Sven
> 
> This doesn't solve it all...
> 
> Let's assume that the decryption key is given to the user with its Neo. It
> sill means that Openmoko created that key (and thus knows it)...


Hm, I thought about something like GPG: You create a key and put the public key 
on your Freerunner. The Freerunner encrypts the data and sends it to the 
publish server.
If you need the data (in case of a stolen/lost device, what ever) you download 
the data and decrypt it on your desktop with your private key.
OK, applications like "friends next to you" won't work...

Sven

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Re: Loosing your moko

[Didier Raboud]

Sven Klomp wrote:

> On Thursday 10 April 2008 10:19:22 Didier Raboud wrote:
>> Sven Klomp wrote:
>> 
>> > On Thursday 10 April 2008 01:17:51 Denis wrote:
>> >> Centralized database is evil. I'm going to use my own server for
>> >> tracking my Neo. I think it's the only way to keep privacy.
>> > 
>> > I don't know if it was already mentioned, but encryption of the GPS
>> > data might be a solution to keep privacy.
>> > 
>> > Sven
>> 
>> This doesn't solve it all...
>> 
>> Let's assume that the decryption key is given to the user with its Neo.
>> It sill means that Openmoko created that key (and thus knows it)...
> 
> 
> Hm, I thought about something like GPG: You create a key and put the
> public key on your Freerunner. The Freerunner encrypts the data and sends
> it to the publish server. If you need the data (in case of a stolen/lost
> device, what ever) you download the data and decrypt it on your desktop
> with your private key. OK, applications like "friends next to you" won't
> work...
> 
> Sven

The problem is the reflash... My idea was that any Neo would _by default_
track its coordinates to a central server. This is the only way which would
resist to /default/ reflashing and basic hijacking...


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Re: Loosing your moko

[Xiangfu Liu]

you can see my bolg    , it may be help
you

-- 
my Blog : http://blog.chinaunix.net/u/13385/
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Re: locale the openmoko

[Xiangfu Liu]

sorry
last mail has the  wrong title
this is true

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Re: linux-openmoko build error

[Flemming Richter Mikkelsen]

On 4/10/08, M Nader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/git_git.openmoko.org.git.kernel.git_
*4194*.tar.gz
> It seems that *4914* (from same-srcrev.inc) doesn't exist. If so what
> stable revision should I use?

did you mean 4194 or 4914?
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how to display the chinese character on browser

[赵经纬]

hi
  thank you for your reply!
  now , i come to some problems with openmoko
  i want to connect to the internet with qemuarm, and it can display english
website clearly!
but can't display the chinese character,such as 中国.
  how to do ?


thanks !
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Re: Who is who ?

[fredo]

> You're right.
>
> I added it, so as the nationality field.

What's the purpose of the nationality field ? It seem's misplaced for me.
I would like something like "speaked language" and "location" because you
can speak german and live in china.

-- 
Frédéric Leroy


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Re: Who is who ?

[openmoko]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :

You're right.

I added it, so as the nationality field.



What's the purpose of the nationality field ? It seem's misplaced for me.
I would like something like "speaked language" and "location" because you
can speak german and live in china.

  

You're still right ;)

I just thought it could be useful to have the information about the 
country.
For example, I live in France, and I have questions about the freerunner 
delivery in my country (taxes, local resellers ...), or will it work on 
the nationals networks ... I could know if there is other people in the 
same case.



I don't know if this information will be really useful.
People who don't want, don't have to specify this information.

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Re: Who is who ?

[fredo]

> You're still right ;)
>
> I just thought it could be useful to have the information about the
> country.
> For example, I live in France, and I have questions about the freerunner
> delivery in my country (taxes, local resellers ...), or will it work on
> the nationals networks ... I could know if there is other people in the
> same case.

IIRC there is a page on openmoko wiki which describe those sim's which
don't work.
I think a page with network which works, will be valuable also.

> I don't know if this information will be really useful.
> People who don't want, don't have to specify this information.

I'm french too :) And I was looking for these information several month ago.
I wonder if we can do a group of french people, like the german group, and
do some valuable work (i18n ?).


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Re: Who is who ?

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto:
As many people, I guess, I sometime wonder if a certain person answering 
a question on this mailing list or an other is trustful or not.


To exactly know who is who, I propose to make a list of members on the 
wiki.
Cause I didn't found such a page, I created one (Sorry if it already 
exists)


So, I invite all of you to "register" on the list :  
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Whoiswho


Finally someone did it, I was wondering if there was a way to know who 
is really a fic/openmoko man...

Another thing that could help us is the singnature on mailing lists!

I hope that the "VIP" of this community will add themselves to the the 
wiki...! :P


--
Treviño's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: Data over normal GSM call

[Harald Welte]

On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 10:22:10AM -0400, Dan Staley wrote:
> Does anyone know if it is legal (in the standard TOS) with providers
> (such as ATnT) to send data over a normal phone call?

this is not possible, since regular voice calls for GSM are not
bit-transparent, i.e. the voice signal is coded and potentially re-coded
(transcoded) a number of time between the calling and receiving party.

Data calls over GSM are done using CSD.  They also use quite a lot more
error correction than voice calls.

-- 
- Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  http://openmoko.org/

Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone

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Re: Who is who ?

[Mike Baroukh]

> For example, I live in France, and I have questions about the
> freerunner delivery in my country

So maybe we may make one page by country and add informations specific
to this country ?



Mike
(En France egalement ...)

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
>>> You're right.
>>>
>>> I added it, so as the nationality field.
>>> 
>>
>> What's the purpose of the nationality field ? It seem's misplaced for
>> me.
>> I would like something like "speaked language" and "location" because
>> you
>> can speak german and live in china.
>>
>>   
> You're still right ;)
>
> I just thought it could be useful to have the information about the
> country.
> For example, I live in France, and I have questions about the
> freerunner delivery in my country (taxes, local resellers ...), or
> will it work on the nationals networks ... I could know if there is
> other people in the same case.
>
>
> I don't know if this information will be really useful.
> People who don't want, don't have to specify this information.
>
> ___
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> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

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Re: Who is who ?

[Flemming Richter Mikkelsen]

On 4/10/08, Mike Baroukh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > For example, I live in France, and I have questions about the
> > freerunner delivery in my country
>
> So maybe we may make one page by country and add informations specific
> to this country ?



That was done for GTA01 and should also be done now
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Re: Who is who ?

[Philippe Guillebert]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I'm french too :) And I was looking for these information several month ago.
I wonder if we can do a group of french people, like the german group, and
do some valuable work (i18n ?).
  


Hello all,

Just to point out that there are also "Local groups" in the wiki to 
allow local meetings of people interested in the project.


http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Local_Groups

Since I'm also French, maybe if some more people fill these pages we 
could meet somewhere (in Paris ?) and dream about GTA02 ;)


See you


--
Phyce


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Re: Data over normal GSM call

[ramsesoriginal]

By applying some sort of modulation (fm? am? psm?) it should be
possible to transfere data over gsm, but on a much lower speed then
through the data channel.

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 7:34 PM, Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 10:22:10AM -0400, Dan Staley wrote:
>  > Does anyone know if it is legal (in the standard TOS) with providers
>  > (such as ATnT) to send data over a normal phone call?
>
>  this is not possible, since regular voice calls for GSM are not
>  bit-transparent, i.e. the voice signal is coded and potentially re-coded
>  (transcoded) a number of time between the calling and receiving party.
>
>  Data calls over GSM are done using CSD.  They also use quite a lot more
>  error correction than voice calls.
>
>  --
>  - Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   http://openmoko.org/
>  
>  Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone
>
>
>
>  ___
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>



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Re: Who is who ?

[Ian Darwin]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As many people, I guess, I sometime wonder if a certain person answering 
a question on this mailing list or an other is trustful or not.


To exactly know who is who, I propose to make a list of members on the 
wiki.
Cause I didn't found such a page, I created one (Sorry if it already 
exists)


So, I invite all of you to "register" on the list :  
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Whoiswho


How does having more bureaucracy help you find out who is trustworthy?
Anybody can sign up on the wiki.

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[OT] Re: OpenMoko project future - Dreamliner vs. 737

[Fredrik Wendt]

Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Am 08.04.2008 um 09:27 schrieb Kevin Zuber:
> > So users have to register in that forum to see the picture in your
> > shop... not really useful :)
> 
> Well, the forum is great but you are right that we shouldn't require  
> users to subscribe there...

while at it, add OpenID support and the forum will be easier to use!

/ Fredrik Wendt




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Re: Who is who ?

[ian douglas]

Ian Darwin wrote:

How does having more bureaucracy help you find out who is trustworthy?
Anybody can sign up on the wiki.


I agree with this -- anyone can sign up on the wiki and claim anything 
they like.


If I had to guess, I'd say anyone with an @openmoko.com Email address is 
pretty trustworthy. As for who else on the list is more worthy of our 
trust than others, spend a few weeks on the list and see who's answering 
questions and how many of those go corrected by other members (or not), 
and you'll start to learn which people on the list know what they're 
talking about.


And as a friendly reminder to new subscribers to the list, feel free to 
look back through the list archive to read up on information. Things 
like the "400MHz cpu vs 500MHz cpu" was covered back in January or February.


-id

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accelerometer thought

[Joe Pfeiffer]

It occurred to me as I was thinking about use cases that a setting in
which the phone would be on vibrate while vertical (as in clipped to
my belt) and ring when horizontal (as in lying on a table) would suit
my typical use about 99% of the time.


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Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?

[Jeremiah Flerchinger]

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 4:26 AM, Hugo Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 09:28:02PM -0500, Mark Arvidson wrote:
> > I use my phone's
> > EDGE capabilities while riding across Texas to the next family event...
> >
> > As it is, I don't use Wifi much (of course, I don't have it on my phone
> > yet).  There are very few free places to use it around here, and their
> > ranges are rather limited.  Traveling at 75 mph down a highway means
> > hotspots come and go in a few seconds, so that's not even a potential
> > problem solver for me.
>
>   I'm almost precisely the opposite use case. I'm almost always
> somewhere with stable wireless access. I don't really care too much
> about fast data access over the phone network, but having
> 802.11(whatever) in the device is a must for me.
>
>   Hugo.


I myself am also much closer to Hugo.  If I want access to data, I'm usually
near someplace with wireless access and would rather use Wifi because it is
free or cheaper.  I also don't think it's wise to drive down a highway and
using a browser, email, or typing in the terminal (hopefully you're the
passenger) - but WiMAX could provide that capability.

We are starting to see a push to integrate WiMAX & WiFi into the same
chipsets and this will only become more common.  I think WiFi is popular
enough & the integration of WiMAX would make it questionable to not include
these technologies together & warrant a seperate module for WiFi/WiMax.
Wouldn't the areas that currently support 3G also be more likely to quickly
adopt a 4G technology like WiMax?  Why not skip 3G and go straight to 4G?
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Re: Unofficial poll: / 3G Network Sheepshearing

[Andy Green]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:

| I myself am also much closer to Hugo.  If I want access to data, I'm
| usually near someplace with wireless access and would rather use Wifi

I have a little experience recently with 3G data access... it worked
well when stationary but completely failed while in a moving train.
When it worked it was cool though.

However, getting an account at the provider 3 in the UK was like being a
sheep showing up to get sheared.  After I explained what I wanted they
insisted to test my credit card to confirm my PIN and then my physical
address.

They tried to upsell me to an 18 month contract on the basis that is was
"GBP45 cheaper" since they halve the price of the data access and give
me a "free" phone, but in fact comparing 12 months of payments against
18 months, this is GBP45 more expensive and you are locked in for
longer, so no thanks.

Then they asked me if I was married -- I replied it was none of their
business.  The salesperson explained that it was needed for a "credit
check".  I shrugged, so they proposed a Pay as You Go method, it charges
the same GBP15 for 3GB access, but in order to stop everybody avoiding
the contract lock-in, they destroy any remaining transfer allowance 30
days after you started using it.  Outrageous!  And if you went over your
limit in transfer, you are charged GBP10 per MB -- per MB!  Watching a
25 minute vid on Youtube like that and suddenly you owe them GBP800.  Of
course this stops anyone getting even near their transfer limit in 30
days through sheer terror, to the benefit of the network provider.

Further, in order to find your remaining balance you have to sign up at
a website, but they insist to send your login password via SMS.  I don't
have a 3G phone -- now what do we do?

When we talk about the possibility to use freely shared WLAN vs a
telephony network connection we shouldn't ignore the "collateral damage"
of becoming a customer of these satanic sheepshearing factories.  I
guess most people are beaten down to expect this experience otherwise we
would see more foaming at the mouth rants like this one.

| We are starting to see a push to integrate WiMAX & WiFi into the same
| chipsets and this will only become more common.  I think WiFi is popular

I think a good general rule is to only push your luck in one domain at a
time.  Arguably we push our luck in several places at once already.
WiMax doesn't really exist yet despite the hype, betting everything on a
technology that is a bit slow to mature and not widely adopted by
carriers (yet) would be pretty dangerous for our health I think.

- -Andy
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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