Re: Available Encryption algorithms
Am Di 27. Mai 2008 schrieb David Pottage: If there is a difference between what the spec sheet for the GSM modem supports and what the AT command says is supported, then my guess would be that the GSM modem is also considering what is permitted by the network SIM card. Alternatively there may be a bug in the OpenMoko software that runs and interprets that AT command. -- David Pottage Exactly (point #1). The raw AT-cmds aren't mangled by any OM-sw (libgsmd-tool, atcmd) AFAIK. /jOERG But it could still be that the information on the wiki for interpreting the raw AT-cmds contains an error right? grz, Onno ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Available Encryption algorithms
I am a little confused about the available Encryption algorithms for the Neo1973. When I enter the ATcommand AT%EM=2,7 in libgsmd-tool (in atcmd mode) it get the response: STR=`AT%EM=2,7' RSTR=`%EM: 1,1,0,3,0,1,1,0,0,1,1,0 6,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,4,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0' According to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA01_gsm_modem#Power_Parameters_.282.2C7.29 this should mean that A5/1 and A5/3 Encryption algorithms should be available. But all the information I found on the TI Calypso chipset state the ciphering processor implements both A5/1 and A5/2 algorithms. Can somebody confirm whether A5/2 of A5/3 is supported by the neo1973? The A5/* cyphers are used to encrypt voice data between the phone and the base station. What cyphers you can use depends on what your phone and network support. (In some countries consumer crypto is forbidden so all GSM voice calls are in the clear). I don't actually know, but I would assume that both Neo 1973 and Freerunner support whatever the GSM module supports. Remember that when you make a voice call the analogue audio is routed from the mic directly to the GSM module where it is digitized and sent over the network. The Freerunner does not get involved. If there is a difference between what the spec sheet for the GSM modem supports and what the AT command says is supported, then my guess would be that the GSM modem is also considering what is permitted by the network SIM card. Alternatively there may be a bug in the OpenMoko software that runs and interprets that AT command. I assume the available Encryption algorithms are those that are supported by both the GSM Modem and the network. If the (un-mangled as jOERG pointed out) AT command says it is supported, the modes should be supported by the network and the GSM modem. Unfortunately, this brings me back to the original confusion. The documentation I found on the Calypso chip says A5/1 and A5/2 but interpreting the response of the AT command using the information in the wiki leads me to believe A5/1 and A5/3 is supported. Either the wiki or de documentation on the used Calypso chip is wrong. Since interpretation of the output on the wiki is based on educated guesses and should not be relied on I tent to believe the Calypso chip documentation. But maybe there is somebody with access to the closed (NDA) documentation, who can reliably confirm one or the other? grz, Onno ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: USB power direction in host mode (was: Re: 3G USB Dongle (was Re: Neo as cellular modem?))
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 4:18 AM, Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Do 29. Mai 2008 schrieb Michael Shiloh: Andy Green wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Am Mi 28. Mai 2008 schrieb Brad Midgley: | Joerg | | On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 2:30 AM, Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED] | wrote: | Am Mi 28. Mai 2008 schrieb Brad Midgley: | i think it may still be up in the air | Nope it's not, see Y-cable in wiki. Should work perfectly. You just have | to | find the 5pin-mini-USB-plug to DIY one. | is EN_USBHOST is deasserted by the system automatically now? I'll | update the section in | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware if it is. | | No idea, it's a driver issue. On detection of 47k device is switching to | fastcharge, which I think is actually working. Also it should activate | LOGICAL hostmode for USB-controller same time (NOT asserting EN_USBHOST!), | which is needed for Y-Cable and doesn't hurt charger. I don't have the | slightest idea whether this already is in kernel or not. It is deasserted if it sees you have a 1A charger in there, has been for a while. A related question: I presume that it is the electrical signal EN_USBHOST which flips the switch which causes the USB port to source current in host mode, as opposed to sinking current in device mode. This is of course what is expected of a USB host, but it also prevents us from charging the Freerunner when the USB port is in host mode, if an appropriate power source is available. Question: Is it possible to charge the Neo Freerunner when using the USB port in host mode, by ascerting LOGICAL hostmode and by NOT asserting EN_USBHOST? that's exactly how Y-cable_V1 *) works (besides replacing the needed 15k? pulldown-Rs also switched away by deasserting EN_USBHOST) The combination LOGICAL hostmode + NO chargepump is exactly what the kernel-driver should initiate when seeing 47k *) There's the spec for V2 already, that's capable of working with USB2.0-OTG (supported by GTA03, though USB2.0 will be there with GTA04 at the earliest) See Y-Cable revisited somewhere on the lists - even more simple ;-) I sense a leak of details :) What is the GTA03 that you speak of... I know GTA04 is the next revision being discussed on the mailing lists, but I thought GTA03 was skipped? Cheers, Federico ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: multi-tutch?
Not really, normal touch screen tablets have a capacitive touch screen, which is why they usually only work with a special pen, and you can rest your hand on them. Cheers, Federico On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 1:59 AM, ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, as most of you probably did by now, you heared about the Windows 7 presentation. The most precise of you may have noticed: All of the multitouch is also aviable on normal touchscreens (in fact it was shown on a normal tablet notebook). Sooo.. what does this meen for us? simple: it's possible to mimc full multitouch with a normal touchscreen. On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 12:47 AM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joerg Reisenweber wrote: FR-TS is a resistive-4wire-type, which per se isn't capable of multitouch. I plan to investigate on some very hackerish tricks to get a little more of info out of this design, but for now: NO not possible. /jOERG I knew this, but it's neither possible to use the touchscreen particular gestures like many Synaptics touchpads: I mean tapping, double/triple-fingers tapping, two finger scrolling (mine, that is 5 years old does it!)... -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: multi-tutch?
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Federico Lorenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not really, normal touch screen tablets have a capacitive touch screen, which is why they usually only work with a special pen, and you can rest your hand on them. Correcting myself - from Wikipedia: Passive tablets, most notably those by Wacom, make use of electromagnetic induction technology, where the horizontal and vertical wires of the tablet operate as both transmitting and receiving coils (as opposed to the wires of the RAND Tablet which only transmit). The tablet generates an electromagnetic signal, which is received by the LC circuit in the pen. The wires in the tablet then change to a receiving mode and read the signal generated by the pen. Modern arrangements also provide pressure sensitivity and one or more switches (similar to the buttons on a mouse), with the electronics for this information present in the pen itself, not the tablet. On older tablets, changing the pressure on the pen nub or pressing a switch changed the properties of the LC circuit, affecting the signal generated by the pen, which modern ones often encode a digital data stream onto the signal. By using electromagnetic signals, the tablet is able to sense the stylus position without the stylus having to even touch the surface, and powering the pen with this signal means that devices used with the tablet never need batteries. Wacom's patents don't permit their competitors to employ such techniques. Cheers, Federico ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My experience with the Freerunner
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Wed, 28 May 2008 19:14:46 -0400 Matt Mets [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Matt Mets wrote: I tried out the ASU software update on my GTA01 tonight, and took a short video of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ISHrtuQuGM Cool video! Thanks! The keyboard seems quite nice, and worked well with a stylus (better than the video might suggest, I was working around the camera). What about the finger usability? AFAIK the Qtopia predictive keyboard has been projected also to help in finger usability... I wasn't able to use the keyboard with my finger. Once a letter is pressed, you can't slide to a neighboring letter to change it, so it was difficult to correct mistakes. There was a different keyboard on the original Qtopia builds that had a magnifying-key feature that seemed to make this easier. It is entirely possible that I missed something here though. I do like the gesture support (slide left to backspace, forward to insert space, down for enter, up to switch keyboards), but I would like to see something that indicates that gestures are being performed (perhaps a line that shows a trail of where your finger has been?). to correct - just backspace! :) (left slide). the magnifying thing is possible - but somehow i saw it as superfluous as chances are u press and release very fast like a keypress on a normal keyboard and then notice the mistake. even so - the dictionary lookup will be correcting if it's in the dictionary and not too far of a typo (press too far away from intended key). admittedly the dictionary we ship has only 5000 words - but hey. it's a simple text file. :) Ok, keeping that in mind, pressing in the general area and using the word lookup feature seems to work pretty well with a finger. At least i have been able to put in some simple phrases quite easily. The predictive keyboard bit might help but I haven't become proficient with it yet. It seemed weird that it shows two lists of possible words (one horizontal across the top of the keyboard, one in a dropdown box). horizontal is for quick selecting the most likely matches for correction (or if no matches - exactly what you typed), and if it doesn't fit u can access ALL matches from the popup list. One other thing I noticed was that the widget for the popup window covers up the leftmost horizontal match or two, making it impossible to select them. Also, when running a regular X application (remote xterm), it seemed like I had to press enter (or tab) to get the characters to be sent to the app, which made it very difficult to enter things into the terminal. But usability in actual phone-apps is probably more important :-D. Perhaps a direct-input mode is/could be implemented for that sort of application. it's possible we can do this - in svn there is even a full qwerty kbd layout i initially used - with ctrl, alt, etc. for terminal junkies, BUT for now correction is always-on. Here is a funny idea: how about replacing the word lookup with bash-style command completion when in the terminal? That could be really cool! Maybe the word lookup feature already has an interface that can be hooked into. I could see it being useful for auto-completing really any application-specific data as well. :-D For example, maybe in the dialer program to show your closest contacts that match the number (one of my favorite features of the GTK-dialer). The whole interface was very smooth though. I'm suddenly much more optimistic about the project! -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Michael Shiloh wrote: Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Wed, 28 May 2008 02:15:16 +0200, Matt Mets [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It might also be cool to have the Freerunner act as a wireless router! Instant (slow) internet anywhere... In ad-hoc network mode only. AFAIK the WiFi chip used in the Freerunner doesn't support AP mode. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the WiFi chip in fact _can_ do AP mode, but that mode is not allowed in the open source driver. its a firmware. the wifi module has its own firmware and does the 802.11 handling there autonomous. that concept is called hardmac and was there earlier, e.g on the old 'orinoco silver' aka hermes pcmcia cards. that firmware can currently do client mode and ad-hoc. _in theory_ every wifi radio can do ap-mode, its just a question if you can send packets at a low-enough layer in the right format. this is controlled by firmware on the wifi module in this specific case. = ap mode would need another firmware which we do not have and not know if it exists at all from atheros to be loaded into the wifi module. so there is nothing we could do on the driver front to change that. -- Joachim Steiger Openmoko Central Services ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Password safe
Uncle Kridley wrote: Ian Darwin wrote: The only two things I really need the Blackberry for (apart from stable calling :-)) are the password safe (which I have written a replacement for, and others exist)... I'm totally dependent on gnukeyring on my Treo, so this is good news. I'd been hoping that somebody with some GUI coding experience would build one on Openmoko, since I've never written a (non-web) GUI program. Are you going to release your password safe? What are the others you speak of? I thought that perhaps gnome-keyring could be ported to Openmoko... I use pwsafe, which is a text-only program. I imagine it would be easy to throw a GTK (or QT) wrapper around it and cross-complile for Neo. M ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My second battery life test with the freerunner in standby
Hei Folks can someone enlighten me on this issue of battery life: it seems that the freerunner stayed alive for 16 hours and everyone seems exited. My little crappy Motorala stays alive for days if it is not used to make calls. How does this relate? Are we waiting for suspend to work? or shall we need a stack of batteries to swap? greetings Eildert ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Fwd: u-blox binary protocol boilerplate code]
If you look at the ATR0635 datasheet directly from Atmel: http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc4928.pdf you'll read on page 14: RAW (RAW message support requires an additional license) U-blox (Atmel's software partner) only sells some of its products with RAW message support (notably the LEA-4T) So even if it's a supported feature we can not really be sure if the firmware on the chip allows us access to the RAW messages :( I guess we'll have to wait until somebody interested in this topic receives his/her own Freerunner... -- beren On Wednesday 28 May 2008 16:36:55 Joseph Reeves wrote: According to the datasheet for the chip ATR0635, DGPS is a supported feature: http://www.u-blox.com/products/Data_Sheets/ATR0630_35_SglChip_Data_Sheet(GP S.G4-X-06009).pdf If I'm reading this correct, we've also got supersense available, which should improve accuracy. I'll be the first to admit, however, that I really am not the best person to talk to about the technical side of such things. Joseph 2008/5/28 [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wednesday 28 May 2008 11:46:45 Joseph Reeves wrote: We're looking to develop a combined DGPS and A-GPS application for the platform, for which we need the data contained within this binary protocol. That sounds great - I presume you need access to the RXM-RAW message which to the best of my knowledge is not available/accessible on all Antaris chips due to licensing/firmware reasons. Could anybody confirm that it is possible to access the RXM-RAW information from the Antaris chip in the Freerunner? That would be really great news because without it DGPS would be impossible... -- beren ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G USB Dongle (was Re: Neo as cellular modem?)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | YEP. but from this sniplet I don't understand whether it also will enter | LOGICAL hostmode like with a short to GND on ID-pin. | | That's the crux, do *both* No, nothing is watching ID level right now. You have to do it by hand until we implement something. But there are no mini USB OTG Host or Y cables shipped either :-/ echo 1 /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-host.0/hostmode ; echo host /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-ohci/usb_mode to get into host mode and this: echo 0 /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-host.0/hostmode ; echo device | /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-ohci/usb_mode to get back to device. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg+UdkACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpCGQCgh9doLt06m5qfWYOXqeCEgz0o s0EAnRpoYeFOYwgfVY6ln8GL4roY+yAK =C8SV -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Meta Toolchain Release (2008 May)
I have just realized that opkg-cl isn't in toolchain. :( added and committed, will show up in the next toolchain build. On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 12:34:40PM +0800, John Lee wrote: libjana isn't packaged in toolchain by default. the default compopents are: libmokogsmd2, mokoui2, mokopanelui2, mokojournal2 and dependencies. we cannot package everything or it's going to be a huge toolchain. however, there are 2 interesting aliases in environment-setup: alias opkg='LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/openmoko/arm/lib /usr/local/openmoko/arm/bin/opkg-cl -f /usr/local/openmoko/arm/etc/opkg-sdk.conf -o /usr/local/openmoko/arm' alias opkg-target='LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/openmoko/arm/lib /usr/local/openmoko/arm/bin/opkg-cl -f /usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/etc/opkg.conf -o /usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi' which means by opkg-target we can add the packages we need into the toolchain directory. at the moment the content of /usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/etc/opkg.conf is incorrectly pointed to local directories in build host. if we replace it by the corresponding URIs such as http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/ http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/neo1973 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/om-gta01 then _theoretically_ we can just do opkg-target update opkg-target install libjana-dev I haven't tried this approach before because OE suits me just fine. however, for those who just want to make apps I think it's an right way to start. Regards, John ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Converting Blackberry contacts into QTopia
Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: Ian Darwin wrote: I won't say it was easy or pretty, but I did it. Cool... I want do it also with my Motorola phone importing contacts, SMSs and events from the binary seem files... Maybe I could use some of your advices! Marco, and others: I'm going to create an entry on my blog for those of you switching from X to Openmoko. Please add your experiences. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the WiFi chip in | fact _can_ do AP mode, but that mode is not allowed in the open source | driver. | | its a firmware. the wifi module has its own firmware and does the 802.11 | handling there autonomous. | that concept is called hardmac and was there earlier, e.g on the old | 'orinoco silver' aka hermes pcmcia cards. or fullmac. It just doesn't support Master mode. | that firmware can currently do client mode and ad-hoc. | _in theory_ every wifi radio can do ap-mode, its just a question if you | can send packets at a low-enough layer in the right format. | this is controlled by firmware on the wifi module in this specific case. It's also a matter of receiving bulk packets efficiently and they don't give us monitor mode either. We're helpless unless Atheros decided to implement Master mode in their closed firmware. Unfortunately the power advantages of having the bulk of the ieee80211 actions managed in the firmware are pretty compelling so I don't know how we get out of that bind. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg+VD4ACgkQOjLpvpq7dMo4nACdFkBC+552ElF8o0cy2x+ffu0A mfQAn2+zAX7OTDveChC1r4ulzlBjV7kG =swEq -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Can update freerunner CPU to ARM926EJ-S
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | The freerunner CPU is ARM920T ,can't support android system img,I think | it can update to ARM926EJ-S ? | We can replace CPU directly ? No, CPU is definitely not user replaceable part. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg+VWYACgkQOjLpvpq7dMrVzACfY2zW4xTy53vub1bXwzrb7DdR iwUAnAslrv2T9VjqjUbasEKWHw/RqD1n =qQuy -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Joerg Reisenweber wrote: hmmm you really have a talent to ask interesting questions I'll take that as a compliment, although most people find it irritating :-) In this case it's actually my job :-) dunno... yet I understand. It's not a trivial question. I know that you won't claim something unless you have convinced yourself of the truth. I look forward to your analysis and consideration. /j ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My experience with the Freerunner
On Wed, 28 May 2008 22:40:27 -0700 Matt Mets [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: to correct - just backspace! :) (left slide). the magnifying thing is possible - but somehow i saw it as superfluous as chances are u press and release very fast like a keypress on a normal keyboard and then notice the mistake. even so - the dictionary lookup will be correcting if it's in the dictionary and not too far of a typo (press too far away from intended key). admittedly the dictionary we ship has only 5000 words - but hey. it's a simple text file. :) Ok, keeping that in mind, pressing in the general area and using the word lookup feature seems to work pretty well with a finger. At least i have been able to put in some simple phrases quite easily. that's the main idea - that it is pretty usable even with fingers (within touchscreen limitations - ie - don't press hard enough and it won't register a press). it's meant to have a wide margin of error so it can correct your mis-hits to be what you intended. as with all things - it's a guess. it's never perfect, but humans definitely are not perfect (if we were we'd be able to hit the touchscreen with pixel-level accuracy! :)). horizontal is for quick selecting the most likely matches for correction (or if no matches - exactly what you typed), and if it doesn't fit u can access ALL matches from the popup list. One other thing I noticed was that the widget for the popup window covers up the leftmost horizontal match or two, making it impossible to select them. i know. spotted that. fixed already in svn a few days back. :) it's possible we can do this - in svn there is even a full qwerty kbd layout i initially used - with ctrl, alt, etc. for terminal junkies, BUT for now correction is always-on. Here is a funny idea: how about replacing the word lookup with bash-style command completion when in the terminal? That could be really cool! Maybe the word lookup feature already has an interface that can be hooked into. I could see it being useful for auto-completing really any application-specific data as well. :-D For example, maybe in the dialer program to show your closest contacts that match the number (one of my favorite features of the GTK-dialer). already considered. not now, but later, allow the application to hint things like: please use dictionary name: en (english) or de (german) or shell (a shell dictionary that includes all the commands in $PATH and common options and so on) and the layout can be different for shell mode (request a shell layout, not the default or numeric etc. etc. - but of course all to be done over time. can't do everything on day 0. but have enough there so this can be expanded. allow for custom dictionaries to be generated from other personal data (contact lists etc.) and later even abstract out dictionary engines maybe to a dbus service, abstract out keyboard ui handling to modules etc. etc. - so each element of a keybard is its own abstracted unit that can be plugged-in. right now its a big blob of stuff - but i do intend to abstract it and make the barrier of entry to write just part of a keyboard (and not have to write the whole thing if you don't want to) to b4e easy. move as much into config files as possible and not require code (eg keyboard layouts are right now just text config files - as are dictionary files along with frequency of use info). i'm a big fan of making as much a config option as possible. -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My second battery life test with the freerunner in standby
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Hei Folks | | can someone enlighten me on this issue of battery life: it seems that the | freerunner stayed alive for 16 hours and everyone seems exited. My little | crappy Motorala stays alive for days if it is not used to make calls. | | How does this relate? Are we waiting for suspend to work? or shall we need a | stack of batteries to swap? It's not bad because the CPU was up at 400MHz all that time. Yes, when Linux suspend is used you will get radically longer survival times off a charge. So the number is interesting for the suspend implication as much as for what it actually tested. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg+WdUACgkQOjLpvpq7dMo7aQCfcfePrSm2ghuiNqC/stOIuAtL n0UAn2i2j54CfHXlS9WKbB1lG/xxsOQE =NisE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: IGES STEP CAD file issues
2008/5/22 Jeremiah Flerchinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'm trying to install a 30 day trial version of Pro/E Wildfire 4.0 right now. If I'm lucky I can run it in Wine and I can see if it can export models that work any better for me. Pro/E Wildfire 3.0 and 2.0 were available as native Linux applications. If you could get a trial of one of those, I am sure you will have much more success. -- Philip Stubbs ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Fwd: u-blox binary protocol boilerplate code]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | If you look at the ATR0635 datasheet directly from Atmel: | | http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc4928.pdf | | you'll read on page 14: | RAW (RAW message support requires an additional license) | | U-blox (Atmel's software partner) only sells some of its products with RAW | message support (notably the LEA-4T) | So even if it's a supported feature we can not really be sure if the firmware | on the chip allows us access to the RAW messages :( | | I guess we'll have to wait until somebody interested in this topic receives | his/her own Freerunner... Here is the reset header that device spews: $GPTXT,01,01,02,u-blox ag - www.u-blox.com*50 $GPTXT,01,01,02,ANTARIS ATR062x HW 80040001*26 $GPTXT,01,01,02,ROM CORE 5.00Jan 09 2006 12:00:00*76 $GPTXT,01,01,02,LIC 1EBF-BD07-E83D-6BE1-0F7A*50 It has some kind of LICense, good, bad or indifferent I dunno. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg+XnYACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpS+gCfeFsg2+PtRlx4T5/aA7QefwUE CbQAnAm/a8HcP6tSdZpY3BzUk+GmyEcP =I0S3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My second battery life test with the freerunner in standby
How about charge the mobile every night? And the powersavingapp isen't ready yet. After what I know. Alexander Frøyseth Eildert Groeneveld skrev: Hei Folks can someone enlighten me on this issue of battery life: it seems that the freerunner stayed alive for 16 hours and everyone seems exited. My little crappy Motorala stays alive for days if it is not used to make calls. How does this relate? Are we waiting for suspend to work? or shall we need a stack of batteries to swap? greetings Eildert ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Available Encryption algorithms
just as a sidenote: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A5/2 as well as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A5/1 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A5/3 seems one doesn't want A5/2 anyways and its deprecated, thus eventually the network doesn't allow using it anymore? just guessing.. would need to work through a pile of calypso docs for more details, and still not know whats implemented in that specific revision of the ti-libs anyhow.. but after reading that i think a5/1 and 5/3 will need to be enough till we need 3g anyhow. (when gsm gets phased out, somewhere in the future or THC is successful ;) -- Joachim Steiger Openmoko Central Services ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
On Thu, 29 May 2008 08:59:10 +0200, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're helpless unless Atheros decided to implement Master mode in their closed firmware. Unfortunately the power advantages of having the bulk of the ieee80211 actions managed in the firmware are pretty compelling so I don't know how we get out of that bind. The very knowledge that we can't do something that the hardware would technically be capable of is annoying, but I don't really see why we would need to implement a true AP in the phone. For any reasonable use case I can think of, ad-hoc mode should be enough. The only usability advantage of being an AP would be that it can send beacon packets that allow other devices to detect an available network, but sending beacon would be a battery drain anyway. -- Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
I think, for example, you can't do WPA in ad-hoc mode (only WPA2), so there's a reason. There are some others like this one. Ivo On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 10:31 AM, Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2008 08:59:10 +0200, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're helpless unless Atheros decided to implement Master mode in their closed firmware. Unfortunately the power advantages of having the bulk of the ieee80211 actions managed in the firmware are pretty compelling so I don't know how we get out of that bind. The very knowledge that we can't do something that the hardware would technically be capable of is annoying, but I don't really see why we would need to implement a true AP in the phone. For any reasonable use case I can think of, ad-hoc mode should be enough. The only usability advantage of being an AP would be that it can send beacon packets that allow other devices to detect an available network, but sending beacon would be a battery drain anyway. -- Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Am Do 29. Mai 2008 schrieb Andy Green: Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the WiFi chip in | fact _can_ do AP mode, but that mode is not allowed in the open source | driver. | | its a firmware. the wifi module has its own firmware and does the 802.11 | handling there autonomous. | that concept is called hardmac and was there earlier, e.g on the old | 'orinoco silver' aka hermes pcmcia cards. or fullmac. It just doesn't support Master mode. | that firmware can currently do client mode and ad-hoc. | _in theory_ every wifi radio can do ap-mode, its just a question if you | can send packets at a low-enough layer in the right format. | this is controlled by firmware on the wifi module in this specific case. It's also a matter of receiving bulk packets efficiently and they don't give us monitor mode either. We're helpless unless Atheros decided to implement Master mode in their closed firmware. Unfortunately the power advantages of having the bulk of the ieee80211 actions managed in the firmware are pretty compelling so I don't know how we get out of that bind. Well it's some time ago since I read about Soft|Hard|Free|FullMAC for prism chipsets. Dunno whether there was a way to run even fullmac cards with a softmac stack. A much more interesting point: where is the firmware to download to our Atheros-chip. (NO, no flamewar on free firmware|no firmware again!). Just a simple question: do we have any way to reflash the FW? /jOERG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: multi-tutch?
More or less I knew that, but, as you can see in the video/read in the news, microsoft stated tat the Windows 7 Multitouch works on standard touchscreens.. On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 7:37 AM, Federico Lorenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Federico Lorenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not really, normal touch screen tablets have a capacitive touch screen, which is why they usually only work with a special pen, and you can rest your hand on them. Correcting myself - from Wikipedia: Passive tablets, most notably those by Wacom, make use of electromagnetic induction technology, where the horizontal and vertical wires of the tablet operate as both transmitting and receiving coils (as opposed to the wires of the RAND Tablet which only transmit). The tablet generates an electromagnetic signal, which is received by the LC circuit in the pen. The wires in the tablet then change to a receiving mode and read the signal generated by the pen. Modern arrangements also provide pressure sensitivity and one or more switches (similar to the buttons on a mouse), with the electronics for this information present in the pen itself, not the tablet. On older tablets, changing the pressure on the pen nub or pressing a switch changed the properties of the LC circuit, affecting the signal generated by the pen, which modern ones often encode a digital data stream onto the signal. By using electromagnetic signals, the tablet is able to sense the stylus position without the stylus having to even touch the surface, and powering the pen with this signal means that devices used with the tablet never need batteries. Wacom's patents don't permit their competitors to employ such techniques. Cheers, Federico ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: multi-tutch?
Am Do 29. Mai 2008 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Joerg, as it seems that my mail did not reach the community list (I am not a subscriber, just monitoring the archives) may I ask you directly the question regarding multi tutch :-) . See below: Hi all, if the geometric average point is returned if multiple points are touched wouldn't it be possible to have a fake multi touch, e.g., by doing the following: Press point A - Vector A is returned Additionally press desired point B - X = (A+B)/2 is returned - calculate B = 2*X-A Questions: Would this be managable? What time difference would be required between first and second (and third ...) touch, to recognize such a multi-touch action and reliable distinguish it from a single touch at position X? And one more comment: If that would work you could also detect multi-touch gestures (even if limited), e.g., use the first point statically (maybe a focus centre) and handle the second point dynamically (maybe for zooming in and out). Boris there are two resistors in the touchpad, one for X and one for Y. We only see them changing on a touch, thus giving us the coords. A concurrent second touch just changes the R values even more, but we get no info about whether we touched a second point or we moved the finger. So what you suggest is a gesture recognition. Things become nasty because even the geometric middle isn't true but depends on pressure of one to pressure of other touchpoint etc. You really get too few info out of the device to do anything reasonable with it beyond singletouch (at least that's the way it is now. I plan to see whether we can exploit dynamic pulse response of this design to get some additional info. Same way you're testing cat5-cable for breaks. Don't hold your breath though, chances are bad. And it's not on top of my todo-list) cheers jOERG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: silence (re mass production status) is deafening
Just read mails... Steve explained that there is a last preMP and the process by the manufacturer, test process etc... 2 days ago max... On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 6:08 AM, Steven Kurylo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 8:08 PM, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (I am not complaining, just sayin'...) We're not hearing much about the status of production for Freerunner. From available bits of info, I deduce: Only a week ago there was a thread Whats up with the freerunner mass production?. I'd hardly call that a lack of communication. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner Sale Price in India - Official partner with Openmoko
Hi everyone, I'm a little (actually quite) late in this scene so pardon my ignorance on any goofy questions. I am a LAMP (and uhm ... Java) developer and had always wanted/waited for a dream box like this. Fortunately (or unfortunately) I came across openmoko 1 year late. But better late than never... yeah. I'll be honest when I say I came pretty close to buying an iPhone when I went to US recently but the whole Out of Stock thing drove me mad. In fact I started harboring anti-Apple feelings ($20 for s/w upgrades, overtly-closed-and-controlled UI environment etc. etc.) that I decided to stick with my iMate SP5m until something really gets to me. And here I am. So, my first few questions (and I'm thrilled to know a thread on Neo Indian retailing exists!!) - 1. Where in India can I purchase Neo FreeRunner and its related accessories once it gets released. I know Rakshat is the man here but can we get some more info on this please? Can I pre-order one (just in case it runs out of stock!) 2. Whats this talk of 15.4K discount Mr. Krishna is talking about. How can I be entitled to it as well? :D :P Thanks! Rahul J aka sector7 *Ganesha Krishna* ganesh.krishna at gmail.com community%40lists.openmoko.org?Subject=Freerunner%20Sale%20Price%20in%20India%20-%20Official%20partner%20with%20OpenmokoIn-Reply-To= *Tue May 6 11:45:30 CEST 2008* Hi, First off, my 'thank you' s are due.. 1. To Rakshat for setting up the Indian distribution. You obviously have the know how of open device and open source which is great. This shop has greatly relieved my anxiety of shipping and customs which tends to become a hassle. 2. To Harry, for the official announcement on Indian distribution.Always good to know that you are buying from the official shop. On the price point: I feel 20,000 for Free runner is very decent, (BTW I am eligible for 15.4K discount so that is very very decent :-) ). Neo has a potential to become the office PDA phone. Conference calls to the US and other oversea destinations are extremely common in Indian IT industry. neo +wifi+skype = ridiculously reduced cost. A GSM +GPS (GTA01 like ) box would be great for the rural India if priced around 10,000. Imagine a post man plotting the shortest path to cover all the villages that he has to deliver mail to ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/06/south_asia_indian_postman/html/1.stm ) with the right features the government might want to buy the neo for them. A VGA screen with GPRS means the farmer can consult the market price of his crops, and the wealthy ones can lookup Stock market. (Oh, yes. Commodity trading and stock trading are huge in my native village!! but there are only few brokerage houses that are miles away in the town center, one needs to call them frequently to be in touch with the market. The village itself has GSM+GPRS coverage) Students and universities: Rakshat, have you considered talking to Universities/engineering colleges. There are mind boggling number of engineering colleges in Karnataka(my state) and all of them run some kind of telecommunication course. a couple of neos to each college with a smartly packaged SDK and presentation on getting hands on GSM experience would help you sell many phones. I know I would want to work on such a device If I were a student now. Regards, -GK -- Forwarded message -- From: rakshat hooja rakshat at gmail.com To: community at lists.openmoko.org Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 12:57:48 +0530 Subject: Re: Freerunner Sale Price in India - Official partner with Openmoko Shakthi, I have been using GTA01 (Neo 1973) my main phone for some time and felt that at its price point (under INR 12000 for GSM and GPS and VGA display) it would make a great phone for the Indian market. Unfortunately with its power draining problems (I carry 2 spare batteries in my pocket) it can not be mass produced (My initial email to Micheal was about reselling the GTA01 in India). Anyway the good part is that the Openmoko and Qtopia software is GPL and porting these to a GSM only hardware should be considerably easier than writing a new GSM stack! We have plans get it to run on the CompuLab X270em board but thats kind of stalled at the moment. If that works out one can bring out GSM only, GSM+GPS, GSM+WiFi and GSM+GPS+WiFi versions of a phone running Openmoko. Maybe after the success of the Freerunner (I am quite confident on that as I have seen the software really improving over the last 6 months and the price point is pretty decent too) Openmoko themselves may consider bringing out a lower spec cheaper version. Right now I think it would be best to support the Openmoko endevour and try and make the Freerunner a great success, both at the market and as a philosphy. Rakshat -- Forwarded message -- From: Shakthi Kannan
Re: My second battery life test with the freerunner in standby
On 5/28/08, einstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, the day is over an the freerunner turns off after 16hours. I charged it over night, 7 hours long. So i only turn on the gsm. I don't use the Freerunner often. A short gps session of 15min an some sms, one short call, one missed call! And in the afternoon i wake up the freerunner every 30min to check the state of the device. I am supriesed of this. yesterday i think 14 hours are possible. Well, i think all the developers do a great job, and there are many opertunitys for more standby time. So now i go to bed, in 7 hours my night is over. Great job. Can you say what the reasons are for the improved time? Was the system running at 400 MHz at all time? Which image did you use? Keep up the good work:) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: A disturbance in the force?
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 6:30 PM, Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Once today, while my FreeRunner was plugged in on USB, I tapped the screen to wake it up, and it came up, but all the pixels in text were jiggly, as though the screen were being refreshed at the wrong rate. When I called up the qwerty keyboard, it appeared quite scrambled. Sadly I didn't have a video camera trained on it at the time, and by the time I whipped out my pocket video camera, it had gone into suspend mode; when I hit the power button to awaken it, the problem was gone! I know it's not my eyesight :-) This really happened. But only once. I'll make sure I have the video camera handy in case it comes back, although, recording a 640x480 video of the freerunner will be pretty grainy and probably won't accurately show the problem (due to things like refresh rates)... Sigh. I think I see what you mean. the same thing happens on my Asus laptop (ATI X700 graphic card) when I switch from the console to X. Sometimes the screen appears like what you'll get when using the wrong refresh rate on a CRT screen. switching again to and from a console makes it go away. Never knew what was causing it though. Driver issue or X issue ?... Regards, __ Marc-Olivier Barre, MarcO'Chapeau. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: early experince Freerunners w/ ASU load, vs. thousnads of Freeruners
As far as I can tell everything in the article was already mentioned on the list. Nothing new to comment on... Ortwin On 5/29/08, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: steve wrote: Yes mass pro will start soon. There is another batch of a few hundred or so phones being built tomorrow. I'll Know more after tomorrows build. Thanks for the news Steve! I'm waiting for a better ones tomorrow... :P In this Linuxtag report [1] (google translated here [2]) there are not so good news about production :/ Can you share with us something more Steve? Bye [1] http://tinyurl.com/6rs6j2 [2] http://tinyurl.com/643y64 -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Will GTK be used in Openmoko?
Steven Kurylo wrote, on 20/05/08 10:44: On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 6:03 PM, Rod Whitby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: Well, I much appreciate your work and your openness with community, unfortunately I can't say the same about Openmoko in this occasion since this should be an Open company and so I'd have appreciated it more if the decision would have been debated before with developers and active part of community (= people writing code) in public lists. I guess the question is whether Openmoko Inc. ever promised that the contents of the rootfs for the phone that they sell will be determined by some sort of community consensus. If I remember correctly, they only promised to provide an open software platform upon which *you* can create your own personalised rootfs. By including both toolkits, they have not changed anything you experience with respect to this promise. And you'd end up arguing about the colour of the bike shed none stop. Some decisions openmoko just needs make to deliver us a phone. For those who didn't pick the reference, the executive bicycle shed is a project listed in the book Parkinson's Law that takes forever while more important issues are decided immediately without forming commitees. Arthur. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QTopia Contacts issue
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 9:35 AM, Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now that I have so many contacts, it would be nice if you had more control over the list format. The only choices I see (under Options-Display Settings) are First Last or Company and Last,First or Company. I'd like to see an option that allowed company names and person names to be intermixed, so I had one big alphabetical list. Should this kind of thing go to the QTopia mailing list or forums, or should we still post general QTopia issues found under OM to this list? I've never used QTopia but how about something like by groups? A lot of phones offer the option of grouping contacts (work, family, and even user defined groups). It would be nice to extend this and then be able to filter by group? Perhaps QTopia already has that feature? I can't answer the original question but I thought I would throw that tidbit in. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: multi-tutch?
also they used to claim that windows is best operating system ever :-) so be careful ;-) Piotr ramsesoriginal pisze: More or less I knew that, but, as you can see in the video/read in the news, microsoft stated tat the Windows 7 Multitouch works on standard touchscreens.. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: multi-tutch?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I have a little idea. Imagine, you put your finger somewhere on the right side of the screen. The average point is also somewhere at the right side. When you put another finger e.g. at the left side the average point jumps somewhere to the middle. This jump is where we could guess, that at least two fingers touch the screen. You can't use features like zooming on iPhone, but it should be possible to switch scrolling into something else. So with one finger you could scroll the screen an with two fingers you could move something. The only problem ist the accuracy of it. Greetings Bastian Joerg Reisenweber schrieb: | Am Do 29. Mai 2008 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: | Hi Joerg, | as it seems that my mail did not reach the community list (I am not a | subscriber, just monitoring the archives) may I ask you directly the question | regarding multi tutch :-) . See below: | | Hi all, | if the geometric average point is returned if multiple points are touched | wouldn't it be possible to have a fake multi touch, e.g., by doing the | following: | Press point A | - Vector A is returned | Additionally press desired point B | - X = (A+B)/2 is returned | - calculate B = 2*X-A | | Questions: | Would this be managable? | What time difference would be required between first and second (and | third ...) touch, to recognize such a multi-touch action and reliable | distinguish it from a single touch at position X? | And one more comment: If that would work you could also detect multi-touch | gestures (even if limited), e.g., use the first point statically (maybe a | focus centre) and handle the second point dynamically (maybe for zooming in | and out). | | Boris | | | there are two resistors in the touchpad, one for X and one for Y. We only see | them changing on a touch, thus giving us the coords. A concurrent second | touch just changes the R values even more, but we get no info about whether | we touched a second point or we moved the finger. So what you suggest is a | gesture recognition. Things become nasty because even the geometric middle | isn't true but depends on pressure of one to pressure of other touchpoint | etc. | You really get too few info out of the device to do anything reasonable with | it beyond singletouch (at least that's the way it is now. I plan to see | whether we can exploit dynamic pulse response of this design to get some | additional info. Same way you're testing cat5-cable for breaks. Don't hold | your breath though, chances are bad. And it's not on top of my todo-list) | | cheers | jOERG | | - | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIPsnJlYiDScJJ+7QRApJnAKDQuEB1lymxNvCpsIqHHkeq96nuiQCePHTW 7ValrHjGuUuLzk8n5P6PuP4= =0K1/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: A disturbance in the force?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I guess, that it is a driver issue. The open drivers have to be done by reverse engeneering (at least until somwhere round february) and the proprietary drivers have many bugs. I hope things will get better since the documentation has been made open by AMD. Greetings Bastian Marc-Olivier Barre schrieb: | On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 6:30 PM, Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Once today, while my FreeRunner was plugged in on USB, I tapped the screen | to wake it up, and it came up, but all the pixels in text were jiggly, as | though the screen were being refreshed at the wrong rate. When I called up | the qwerty keyboard, it appeared quite scrambled. | Sadly I didn't have a video camera trained on it at the time, and by the | time I whipped out my pocket video camera, it had gone into suspend mode; | when I hit the power button to awaken it, the problem was gone! | | I know it's not my eyesight :-) This really happened. But only once. | | I'll make sure I have the video camera handy in case it comes back, | although, recording a 640x480 video of the freerunner will be pretty grainy | and probably won't accurately show the problem (due to things like refresh | rates)... Sigh. | | I think I see what you mean. | | the same thing happens on my Asus laptop (ATI X700 graphic card) when | I switch from the console to X. Sometimes the screen appears like what | you'll get when using the wrong refresh rate on a CRT screen. | switching again to and from a console makes it go away. Never knew | what was causing it though. | | Driver issue or X issue ?... | | Regards, | __ | Marc-Olivier Barre, | MarcO'Chapeau. | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIPs56lYiDScJJ+7QRArUzAKDB7VdDcUBeA5b03Iwn2NrUC4WcEwCg586N JLW0pnDHr9oUVp+m+MmIlTs= =o+5Z -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2008 08:59:10 +0200, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're helpless unless Atheros decided to implement Master mode in their closed firmware. Unfortunately the power advantages of having the bulk of the ieee80211 actions managed in the firmware are pretty compelling so I don't know how we get out of that bind. The very knowledge that we can't do something that the hardware would technically be capable of is annoying, Strongly agree. In some cases this was a result of the agreement we were able to reach with the chip manufacturer in order to open source the driver. We don't view this as a perfect solution, but rather a good start. Hopefully in the future the success of Openmoko will encourage chip manufacturers to become more open. but I don't really see why we would need to implement a true AP in the phone. Strongly disagree. Innovation is stifled whenever choices are limited simply because we can't think of why someone would want to make that choice. We should always strive to make such choices available. For any reasonable use case I can think of, ad-hoc mode should be enough. The only usability advantage of being an AP would be that it can send beacon packets that allow other devices to detect an available network, but sending beacon would be a battery drain anyway. Assuming the use case made sense, the Freerunner could be powered externally. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia Contacts issue
I've never used QTopia but how about something like by groups? A lot of phones offer the option of grouping contacts (work, family, and even user defined groups). It would be nice to extend this and then be able to filter by group? Perhaps QTopia already has that feature? Yes, Qtopia has groups. But with 800 contacts, even that is unwieldy, and I'd still like to have them shown by a sensible (to me :-)) order. Or maybe I should prune my contacts, but even if I got it down to 400, I'd still have the same issues. It is confounded by the fact that a useful QTopia feature (a feature of most phones now, in fact) doesn't work yet. In stock Qtopia, if you type a few characters of a contact name, the displayed list is filtered. This doesn't work now, because (I'm guessing here!) the Qwerty widget doesn't know where to send the characters, or, the Contacts program doesn't know how to select the input, or something. Hopefully Carsten will now chime in and say that this, too, like every single thing I've complained to him (except my one feature request) is already fixed in the source, and is working its way out to the builds. BTW, this is another place that you simply must have (and this is my feature request) the ability to send letters one at a time to the application. Cheers Ian Darwin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Fwd: [Routing] http://www.openrouteservice.org
This may be relevant to those folks interested in developing routing apps on OpenMoko. Kyle -- Forwarded Message -- Subject: [Routing] http://www.openrouteservice.org Date: Wednesday 28 May 2008 17:34 From: Pascal Neis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, I want to tell that I develop a new OSM-Routing application as a Web-service and website. A first version for complete Germany (over 1,4 million street segements) just went online in a very first prototype version at: http://www.openrouteservice.org The interesting thing is that it uses both free and open OSM street data and also an open international standard for the routing API. It is the Open Location Services Route Service Specification of the Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC). It also supports avoidareas which are regions that shall be avoided by the routing algorithm. Possible usage scenarios include disasters, traffic jams, construction works etc. At the moment the first version of the interactive Website is online, but the idea is to publish also the URL for the web-service itself, so that it can be used as OGC Web Service using a standardised OpenLS XML-Request. This would allow to use the service easily - and in an interoperable way in your own applcaitions. Some more information on this idea can be found in our publications: see at http://www.openrouteservice.org - Info. Of course we plan to integrate other countries, too, but first we need to improve the application, adding data then is easy. As we have implemented a range of further OGC OpenLS core services. in the next days further functionalities and services will be added, such as a OGC Geocoder (OpenLS Location Utility Service Specification) using OSM Data ... best whishes pascal http://www.geographie.uni-bonn.de/karto/ ___ Routing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/routing --- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
screen protector
If anybody feels the need to use a screen protector, I just tried one called NavProtector that I got for a few bucks on eBay, and it fits nicely (cut about 1mm shorter than the screen, so check before you stick! and maybe center it). The touch screen still works! :-) Ian Darwin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Available Encryption algorithms
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A5/2 as well as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A5/1 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A5/3 seems one doesn't want A5/2 anyways and its deprecated, thus eventually the network doesn't allow using it anymore? That's true, just guessing.. would need to work through a pile of calypso docs for more details, and still not know whats implemented in that specific revision of the ti-libs anyhow.. but after reading that i think a5/1 and 5/3 will need to be enough till we need 3g anyhow. (when gsm gets phased out, somewhere in the future or THC is successful ;) Reading the wikipedia pages you suggested, I noticed A5/3 is a 3G. It is quite odd and 2G phone/chip would support an 3G encryption algorithm Anyway, thanks for you input. I do not suspect you to work through a pile of calypso docs, I guess you've got better ways to spend you're time :-) grz, Onno signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Freerunner CPU-scaling
Anybody who knows, if the current software support CPU-scaling? And also if so, are the steps predefined or is it possible to specify a precise freq? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: multi-tutch?
On to, 2008-05-29 at 17:20 +0200, Bastian Muck wrote: I have a little idea. Imagine, you put your finger somewhere on the right side of the screen. The average point is also somewhere at the right side. When you put another finger e.g. at the left side the average point jumps somewhere to the middle. This jump is where we could guess, that at least two fingers touch the screen. Yes, this idea has been bounced around on the IRC at least (not to belittle you coming up with it also :] ). One could indeed do limited multi-touch emulation, recognizing quick drags and extrapolating the position of the second finger to be at the point twice the distance from the drag startpoint as the drag endpoint. AFAIK nobody is actually doing that and it has its limits as you indicate (no way to reliably know which finger is moving after the dual-tap and such); however, the way is clear for somebody interested to experiment... -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: multi-touch?
Am Do 29. Mai 2008 schrieb Bastian Muck: I have a little idea. Imagine, you put your finger somewhere on the right side of the screen. The average point is also somewhere at the right side. When you put another finger e.g. at the left side the average point jumps somewhere to the middle. This jump is where we could guess, that at least two fingers touch the screen. You can't use It's the same as sliding with the one finger from right to middle. Remember the pressure is also important for the average, so if you hit really hard with the left finger, the avg still does no jump but a fast move over the middle some way left and then back to middle. still a single point gesture. Allegedly there is (or has been) sth like pressure detection in the ts-driver, that probably meassures the R *between* the 2 foils. IIRC that couldn't be done with GTA01, but is maybe feasible with GTA02. It would give some additional info to maybe distinguish multitouch from gesture. I already said I'll have a look at it some day... /jOERG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My experience with the Freerunner
Lasse Poulsen wrote: Also it would be nice to see how long call time you have if you talk continually (might i suggest an audio-book or to). If you don't i properly will (haven't got the device yet!) Taking Lasse's advice, I set up a new test last night: I fully charged my Freerunner, inserted the TMobile SIM card, and set it beside my computer speakers with Amarok looping some of my more rockin' tunes. I made sure the only thing left 'on' on the Freerunner was the GSM modem (wifi which is on by default, was turned off). I also enabled power-saving (dim, no lock -- but it locks anyway) I called it from my ATT phone, which I plugged in next to my TV and watched two full movies from Netflix and 3 episodes of The Dead Zone. In that span, where both phones would have audio to play back and forth to one another, my ATT phone beeped after 3 hours, 51 minutes and 11 seconds that the connection was broken. I immediately redialed the Freerunner, and since it was already at about 90 minutes into the second call, I went to bed. I got up this morning to see that my ATT phone ended the call after 2 hours, 11 minutes and 21 seconds. I figured this went one of two ways -- the Freerunner ran out of battery power, or I ran out of minutes from TMobile. My TMobile SIM card was a 1,000-minute pay-as-you-go SIM, which is about 16.7 hours of talk time, which I've only ever used for my Freerunner tests ... so having only three 3:51:00 phone calls (give or take a few minutes) and one 2:11:21 call that I still have plenty of minutes left on my SIM card, and sure enough -- the battery on the Freerunner was completely dead. (as a side note, it's nice to see that a deeply discharged Freerunner doesn't have the same issue as the GTA01 where you have to charge it for an hour before anything shows on the screen) Since I have TMobile minutes left, I'll finally get around to testing the phone from various alternate locations this coming weekend with the TMobile SIM, and I'll swap it out for the ATT SIM if needed. To recap: - GSM turned on - wifi turned off - bluetooth turned off - gps turned off - power saving enabled (dim, no lock) - total talk time of 6:02:32 with constant audio on both sides of the 'conversation' Hope this helps. More tests to come, stay tuned! And thanks to those who sent messages (and Steve confirming on the list) that my Freerunner is NOT running the ASU stack. I've watched the YouTube video of the ASU stack and it's completely different. My bad. Ian Douglas (not Ian Darwin) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: early experince Freerunners w/ ASU load, vs. thousnads of Freeruners
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 3:37 AM, Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Do 29. Mai 2008 schrieb Marco Trevisan (Treviño): In this Linuxtag report [1] (google translated here [2]) there are not so good news about production :/ Can you share with us something more Steve? Bye [1] http://tinyurl.com/6rs6j2 [2] http://tinyurl.com/643y64 -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ I *REALLY* dislike those tinyurl - never give them a try. :-/ nearly as bad as those html-only (dunno from whom) postings i use to ignore. just wanted to let U know Maybe everyone should use TinyURL with preview? Cheers, Federico ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Am Do 29. Mai 2008 schrieb Michael Shiloh: Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2008 08:59:10 +0200, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're helpless unless Atheros decided to implement Master mode in their closed firmware. Unfortunately the power advantages of having the bulk of the ieee80211 actions managed in the firmware are pretty compelling so I don't know how we get out of that bind. The very knowledge that we can't do something that the hardware would technically be capable of is annoying, Strongly agree. In some cases this was a result of the agreement we were able to reach with the chip manufacturer in order to open source the driver. We don't view this as a perfect solution, but rather a good start. Hopefully in the future the success of Openmoko will encourage chip manufacturers to become more open. but I don't really see why we would need to implement a true AP in the phone. Strongly disagree. Innovation is stifled whenever choices are limited simply because we can't think of why someone would want to make that choice. We should always strive to make such choices available. For any reasonable use case I can think of, ad-hoc mode should be enough. The only usability advantage of being an AP would be that it can send beacon packets that allow other devices to detect an available network, but sending beacon would be a battery drain anyway. Assuming the use case made sense, the Freerunner could be powered externally. Michael Not if you don't find a 3 word slogan to sell this feature to your granny. SCNR, still got a no Joerg! trauma ;-) /j signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner Sale Price in India - Official partner with Openmoko
-- Forwarded message -- From: Rahul Joshi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 17:32:43 +0530 Subject: Re: Freerunner Sale Price in India - Official partner with Openmoko Hi everyone, I'm a little (actually quite) late in this scene so pardon my ignorance on any goofy questions. I am a LAMP (and uhm ... Java) developer and had always wanted/waited for a dream box like this. Fortunately (or unfortunately) I came across openmoko 1 year late. But better late than never... yeah. Welcome, I dont think you are very late at all, there were only a few neo1973s, the first generation free phones (swathanthra phone as some one pointed out) sold in India (according to my very casual research of orkut/blog sphere ) and one had to order them directly from openmoko, no reseller. The new hardware (Freerunner) is much more juicier(sic) considering the variety in Indian phone market. I'll be honest when I say I came pretty close to buying an iPhone when I went to US recently but the whole Out of Stock thing drove me mad. In fact I started harboring anti-Apple feelings ($20 for s/w upgrades, overtly-closed-and-controlled UI environment etc. etc.) that I decided to stick with my iMate SP5m until something really gets to me. And here I am. of course, its the 'Handheld of the free and Phone of the brave'. So, my first few questions (and I'm thrilled to know a thread on Neo Indian retailing exists!!) - 1. Where in India can I purchase Neo FreeRunner and its related accessories once it gets released. I know Rakshat is the man here but can we get some more info on this please? Can I pre-order one (just in case it runs out of stock!) As far as I know (and I have followed this mailing list since its inception) Rakshat is THE Man. you can pre-order at his website. These are his mails form the archive http://openmoko.markmail.org/message/4gek2hynltrysxtw?q=rakshat http://openmoko.markmail.org/message/3ytp6yfuxoy6bwfj?q=rakshat 2. Whats this talk of 15.4K discount Mr. Krishna is talking about. How can I be entitled to it as well? :D :P The first few phones were offered for a discount, I was one of the early birds. unfortunately he has announced that all the slots are taken as of now barring last minute cancellations. Dig thru here to for the whole scoop. http://openmoko.markmail.org/search/?q=rakshat Thanks! Rahul J aka sector7 -GK ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Joerg Reisenweber wrote: Am Do 29. Mai 2008 schrieb Michael Shiloh: Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2008 08:59:10 +0200, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're helpless unless Atheros decided to implement Master mode in their closed firmware. Unfortunately the power advantages of having the bulk of the ieee80211 actions managed in the firmware are pretty compelling so I don't know how we get out of that bind. The very knowledge that we can't do something that the hardware would technically be capable of is annoying, Strongly agree. In some cases this was a result of the agreement we were able to reach with the chip manufacturer in order to open source the driver. We don't view this as a perfect solution, but rather a good start. Hopefully in the future the success of Openmoko will encourage chip manufacturers to become more open. but I don't really see why we would need to implement a true AP in the phone. Strongly disagree. Innovation is stifled whenever choices are limited simply because we can't think of why someone would want to make that choice. We should always strive to make such choices available. For any reasonable use case I can think of, ad-hoc mode should be enough. The only usability advantage of being an AP would be that it can send beacon packets that allow other devices to detect an available network, but sending beacon would be a battery drain anyway. Assuming the use case made sense, the Freerunner could be powered externally. Michael Not if you don't find a 3 word slogan to sell this feature to your granny. SCNR, still got a no Joerg! trauma ;-) I believe there is a legal expression, something like the grandfather clause. Has Steve now invented a similar marketing expression, the granny test? :-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My experience with the Freerunner
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Lasse Poulsen wrote: | Also it would be nice to see how long call time you have if you talk | continually (might i suggest an audio-book or to). If you don't i | properly will (haven't got the device yet!) | | | Taking Lasse's advice, I set up a new test last night: Just a little point about these tests, AIUI the GPS stuff acts radically differently in terms of current consumption depending on the distance from the base station. All we can reasonably do is compare same-tester results for their different phones from the same physical location. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg+9EcACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpslACdH6bGOPNwScfU0UgjoiR/kUDh bgAAn2Vtt/O8ZhkgpiT8X6g3iEgEhwSa =ctuM -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner CPU-scaling
2008/5/29 Dennis Andersen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Anybody who knows, if the current software support CPU-scaling? And also if so, are the steps predefined or is it possible to specify a precise freq? cesarb (see the wiki) did a big effort on this for GTA01 from what little i picked up its tricky as you have many cores on this device each of which have a limited set of freqs which will work (esp the LCM) runnable freqs are therefore a very small subset ah here is the wiki page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/cpufreq JW ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: screen protector
Ian Darwin wrote: If anybody feels the need to use a screen protector, I just tried one called NavProtector that I got for a few bucks on eBay, and it fits nicely (cut about 1mm shorter than the screen, so check before you stick! and maybe center it). Good. I've already asked on this list [1] about the real screen size of the Freerunner (better if in mm) to get a Brando one (I've heard they're the best ones), but I got no answer. :( Anyway I don't exactly know the size of the Freerunner LCD; I've heard it's 46mm x 61mm, right? Please you or any FR owner could help me? I'd like to buy one before than the phone itself :P Thanks! [1] http://tinyurl.com/59fay8 -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Can update freerunner CPU to ARM926EJ-S
luther ha scritto: The freerunner CPU is ARM920T ,can't support android system img,I think it can update to ARM926EJ-S ? AFAIK when Google Android code will be available it will be possible to port it to work with ARMv4 CPUs. -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: multi-tutch?
Bastian Muck wrote: I have a little idea. Imagine, you put your finger somewhere on the right side of the screen. The average point is also somewhere at the right side. When you put another finger e.g. at the left side the average point jumps somewhere to the middle. This jump is where we could guess, that at least two fingers touch the screen. You can't use features like zooming on iPhone, but it should be possible to switch scrolling into something else. So with one finger you could scroll the screen an with two fingers you could move something. Ok... Good that's the same I get in my pc touchpad: I can scroll also with two fingers (MacBook like). Can this be grabbed? What about multiple-fingers-tapping? -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Can update freerunner CPU to ARM926EJ-S
The freerunner CPU is ARM920T, can't support android system img, I think it can update to ARM926EJ-S ? The Neo is not a desktop computer, so I really doubt that the CPU is socketed :-) So unless you're good at soldering SMT components, I think you can forget the CPU upgrade (even if you are, I have no way of telling whether the upgrade would work or not). So it's a good thing that: AFAIK when Google Android code will be available it will be possible to port it to work with ARMv4 CPUs. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My experience with the Freerunner
Am Do 29. Mai 2008 schrieb Andy Green: Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Lasse Poulsen wrote: | Also it would be nice to see how long call time you have if you talk | continually (might i suggest an audio-book or to). If you don't i | properly will (haven't got the device yet!) | | | Taking Lasse's advice, I set up a new test last night: Just a little point about these tests, AIUI the GPS stuff acts radically s/GPS/GSM/ ;) differently in terms of current consumption depending on the distance from the base station. All we can reasonably do is compare same-tester results for their different phones from the same physical location. Yep! exactly, due to tx-power calibration, cell-handover etc. /jOERG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My experience with the Freerunner
Andy Green wrote: | Taking Lasse's advice, I set up a new test last night: Just a little point about these tests, AIUI the GPS stuff acts radically differently in terms of current consumption depending on the distance from the base station. I'm assuming you meant GSM not GPS, so as I understand your point, a better test would be actually having the Neo move around geographically to hop to/from different cell towers, and that a test like this will give more realistic battery usage statistics? In theory, it sounds very reasonable if it will draw varying amount of current from the battery. Thanks for the idea. Given the cost of gasoline these days, though much lower than in Europe, I'm not sure spending two tanks of gas to drive around for 4-6 hours to achieve more usage stats will be feasible. I think that knowing a best case scenario (where you stay in the same location), you get about 6 hours of talk time, is still helpful. Cell phone manufacturers typically report a best case scenario when reporting talk time and standby time, with the legalese and fine print stating that your results may vary from their data. Thoughts? -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Private data protection.
Ilja O. wrote: 1) Auth using PIN number (this requires encrypted image presence in phone file system by it's boot time end -- not reallyl convenient if SD card is used). IMO encrypting Data with the PIN Number is not such a good thing, because the possibilities of different keys are definately not high (max 8 digits, only numbers). A better solution would be to save the PIN on the encrypted storage and automatically read it. 2) Auth using key file accessible on network (when phone is connected to your computer or local network). This means that auth can be performed only in your place (home, work...). Not such a good solution for a Phone IMO (if you're in holidays without laptop for example) 3) Auth using presence of another bluetooth or WiFi device (the MAC address of this device is used as key). This means that phone fully unlocks when your bluetooth mouse or router are around. ;) Same here... The most secure Thing IMO would be to ask a passprase while booting (maybe hack uboot for that, if it doesn't know that) or put data on another device/partition then the OS and asking later for the passphrase (maybe easier to implement) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
on screen keyboard enhaced
One of selected projects in google android is Writing pad which enables writing one word per stroke with on screen keyboard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBOyGp25sSg What do you think. Could this be useful on OpenMoko? I think its really inovative usage of on screen keyboard. I could try to implement it on desktop machine and than when I get Freerunner port it to OpenMoko. -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My experience with the Freerunner
Am Do 29. Mai 2008 schrieb ian douglas: I think that knowing a best case scenario (where you stay in the same location), you get about 6 hours of talk time, is still helpful. Cell phone manufacturers typically report a best case scenario when reporting talk time and standby time, with the legalese and fine print stating that your results may vary from their data. Thoughts? I think *not* moving for all tests (and different types of cellphones to compare) is near a best case scenario for standby time - anyway place some sensitive radio or the like near the phone, to hear the typical interference noise when it is sending, just to make sure you don't sit on a bad spot where the phone changes cell every few minutes. For best case talktime scenarios the distance to basestation is much more important. Here you should check for *very* good RF-signal, means very near to BS and thus allowing the phone-transmitter to power down to lowest level. Also note that GSM without simcard is constantly reselecting cells, so energy consumption is really bad. Switch off GSM when not registering to a network. /jOERG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: on screen keyboard enhaced
On Thu, 29 May 2008 22:42:41 +0200 christooss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One of selected projects in google android is Writing pad which enables writing one word per stroke with on screen keyboard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBOyGp25sSg What do you think. Could this be useful on OpenMoko? I think its really inovative usage of on screen keyboard. I could try to implement it on desktop machine and than when I get Freerunner port it to OpenMoko. How about this (http://www.strout.net/info/ideas/hexinput.html) looks like a good idea. solar.george ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My experience with the Freerunner
On Thursday 29 May 2008 21:58, ian douglas wrote: Andy Green wrote: | Taking Lasse's advice, I set up a new test last night: Just a little point about these tests, AIUI the GPS stuff acts radically differently in terms of current consumption depending on the distance from the base station. ... I think that knowing a best case scenario (where you stay in the same location), you get about 6 hours of talk time, is still helpful. Cell phone manufacturers typically report a best case scenario when reporting talk time and standby time, with the legalese and fine print stating that your results may vary from their data. This test might not even be 'best case'. A better test would be having the Neo really close to the cell tower for optimal conditions. I guess the difference between testing far away from the cell tower and testing close to the tower might be pretty big. There probably also is a difference between GSM900 and GSM1800 (iirc 1800 has a lower range which needs to be compensated by higher transmission power). AVee -- When a man sits with a pretty girl for an hour, it seems like a minute. But let him sit on a hot stove for a minute -- and it's longer than any hour. That's relativity. -- Albert Einstein ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My experience with the Freerunner
ian douglas wrote: I think that knowing a best case scenario (where you stay in the same location), you get about 6 hours of talk time, is still helpful. Cell phone manufacturers typically report a best case scenario when reporting talk time and standby time, with the legalese and fine print stating that your results may vary from their data. Thoughts? I agree, and we can't ask you more than testing like you're doing. Unfortunately I don't live always in places where's there's full GSM signal strength (there are mountains, here! :P), so I already thought to this issue, but I didn't hope in test in this scenario... The only thing I'm asking to you, Ian, is to report the GSM signal strength in your testing zone, just to complete the informations you've already given. Anyway, I'll appreciate so much if another one of the lucky Freerunner owners could make a battery test (also just a standby one) in a place with low GSM coverage... Thanks again! -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: screen protector
On 5/29/08, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian Darwin wrote: If anybody feels the need to use a screen protector, I just tried one called NavProtector that I got for a few bucks on eBay, and it fits nicely (cut about 1mm shorter than the screen, so check before you stick! and maybe center it). Good. I've already asked on this list [1] about the real screen size of the Freerunner (better if in mm) to get a Brando one (I've heard they're the best ones), but I got no answer. :( Anyway I don't exactly know the size of the Freerunner LCD; I've heard it's 46mm x 61mm, right? Please you or any FR owner could help me? I'd like to buy one before than the phone itself :P I got this info from the wiki [1]: LCD Module (LCM) Resistance type touch panel. 2.8 diagonal (1.7 x 2.27 - 43mm x 58mm) Outline Dimension [2]: 43.2mm x 63.3mm x 1.9mm [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware [2] http://www.tpo.biz/ENG/business-eng/Activer-Matrix-VGA.htm ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
If anyone is really interested in make this phone an AP to whatever usenbsp; andnbsp; if anbsp; external power isnbsp; an option, why not use a USB 1.1 wireless adapter able tonbsp; do that even it only do itnbsp; in b instead of g if the usb 1.1 doen't allownbsp; the 54 Mb/s.it can be very probable that can even use monitor mode with that dongle ;) even without external power it can be doable for a shorts periods of time (well battery will decide the timeframe) --- El jue, 29/5/08, Michael Shiloh lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; escribió: De: Michael Shiloh lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; Asunto: Re: Neo as cellular modem? Para: List for Openmoko community discussion lt;community@lists.openmoko.orggt; Fecha: jueves, 29 mayo, 2008 6:00 Alexey Feldgendler wrote: gt; On Thu, 29 May 2008 08:59:10 +0200, Andy Green lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; wrote: gt; gt;gt; We're helpless unless Atheros decided to implement Master mode in their gt;gt; closed firmware. Unfortunately the power advantages of having the bulk gt;gt; of the ieee80211 actions managed in the firmware are pretty compelling gt;gt; so I don't know how we get out of that bind. gt; gt; The very knowledge that we can't do something that the hardware would gt; technically be capable of is annoying, Strongly agree. In some cases this was a result of the agreement we were able to reach with the chip manufacturer in order to open source the driver. We don't view this as a perfect solution, but rather a good start. Hopefully in the future the success of Openmoko will encourage chip manufacturers to become more open. gt; but I don't really see why we would need to implement a true AP in the phone. Strongly disagree. Innovation is stifled whenever choices are limited simply because we can't think of why someone would want to make that choice. We should always strive to make such choices available. For any reasonable use gt; case I can think of, ad-hoc mode should be enough. The only usability gt; advantage of being an AP would be that it can send beacon packets that gt; allow other devices to detect an available network, but sending beacon gt; would be a battery drain anyway. Assuming the use case made sense, the Freerunner could be powered externally. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community __ Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada más inteligente.___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My experience with the Freerunner
Thanks for your thoughts, Marco. Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: I agree, and we can't ask you more than testing like you're doing. As of today I have 165 minutes remaining of my 1,000 minute TMobile SIM card, so I'll have to restock it to do any more tests. I think TMobile still has their 1000-minutes for $100 special going on, so I'll stock up later this evening. The only thing I'm asking to you, Ian, is to report the GSM signal strength in your testing zone, just to complete the informations you've already given. Fair enough. I'll report on that when I get home as my office building is probably more shielded than my apartment. I live near the beach, no mountains to really speak of, and my ATT phone, which was always showing EDGE connectivity at my old apartment always shows full-bandwidth 3G at the new apartment, which is partly why I wanted to do some testing around my old apartment. Anyway, I'll appreciate so much if another one of the lucky Freerunner owners could make a battery test (also just a standby one) in a place with low GSM coverage... As soon as my Freerunner is back to full-charge, I'll try to emulate Einstein's standby tests with all 4 components (GSM, WiFi, Bluetooth, GPS) turned on, then off, and report my own findings. I'll try to do it with both SIM cards, if that makes any difference, and without any SIM at all -- I'm curious if having no SIM card will emulate low GSM coverage with the phone trying to constantly register on a network. Since I have 5,000 evening/weekend minutes with ATT, once I fill up my TMobile card again, I'll take my Freerunner and Blackjack 2 on errands this weekend, see if I can spend more than 6 hours connecting the two phones again in varying locations around Los Angeles. If anyone else has suggestions on how to test battery life, I'd love to hear them. Especially from Michael and Steve, as they can probably direct us a little better on what kinds of real-life scenario testing they'd like us to help in. I'm going to see if I can write a CPU-intensive script to run on the Freerunner too, see if I can time how long the battery will last with the CPU running 100% ... again, just a curiosity. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My experience with the Freerunner
Am Fr 30. Mai 2008 schrieb AVee: This test might not even be 'best case'. A better test would be having the Neo really close to the cell tower for optimal conditions. I guess the difference between testing far away from the cell tower and testing close to the tower might be pretty big. There probably also is a difference between GSM900 and GSM1800 (iirc 1800 has a lower range which needs to be compensated by higher transmission power). Nope, 1800 has half the max output, which is compensated by closer grid of BS. Anyway I guess for best case it's no difference. /j signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
David If anyone is really interested in make this phone an AP to whatever use and if a external power is an option, why not use a USB 1.1 wireless adapter able to do that even it only do it in b instead of g if the usb 1.1 doen't allow the 54 Mb/s I've not had much luck finding a solid linux driver for usb-based wifi adapter as an AP. RE speed... get it working first, then try to optimize. :) -- Brad ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My experience with the Freerunner
Am Fr 30. Mai 2008 schrieb Marco Trevisan (Treviño): ian douglas wrote: I think that knowing a best case scenario (where you stay in the same location), you get about 6 hours of talk time, is still helpful. Cell phone manufacturers typically report a best case scenario when reporting talk time and standby time, with the legalese and fine print stating that your results may vary from their data. Thoughts? I agree, and we can't ask you more than testing like you're doing. Unfortunately I don't live always in places where's there's full GSM signal strength (there are mountains, here! :P), so I already thought to this issue, but I didn't hope in test in this scenario... The only thing I'm asking to you, Ian, is to report the GSM signal strength in your testing zone, just to complete the informations you've already given. Anyway, I'll appreciate so much if another one of the lucky Freerunner owners could make a battery test (also just a standby one) in a place with low GSM coverage... Standby doesn't vary with signal-strength. Just receiver is active (except T3210 every few hours), so it should be no difference. Talktime goes down with distance^2.5 I guess. /j signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Valid idea. Thanks for mentioning this. Michael David Samblas Martinez wrote: If anyone is really interested in make this phone an AP to whatever use and if a external power is an option, why not use a USB 1.1 wireless adapter able to do that even it only do it in b instead of g if the usb 1.1 doen't allow the 54 Mb/s.it can be very probable that can even use monitor mode with that dongle ;) even without external power it can be doable for a shorts periods of time (well battery will decide the timeframe) --- El *jue, 29/5/08, Michael Shiloh /[EMAIL PROTECTED]/* escribió: De: Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Asunto: Re: Neo as cellular modem? Para: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Fecha: jueves, 29 mayo, 2008 6:00 Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2008 08:59:10 +0200, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're helpless unless Atheros decided to implement Master mode in their closed firmware. Unfortunately the power advantages of having the bulk of the ieee80211 actions managed in the firmware are pretty compelling so I don't know how we get out of that bind. The very knowledge that we can't do something that the hardware would technically be capable of is annoying, Strongly agree. In some cases this was a result of the agreement we were able to reach with the chip manufacturer in order to open source the driver. We don't view this as a perfect solution, but rather a good start. Hopefully in the future the success of Openmoko will encourage chip manufacturers to become more open. but I don't really see why we would need to implement a true AP in the phone. Strongly disagree. Innovation is stifled whenever choices are limited simply because we can't think of why someone would want to make that choice. We should always strive to make such choices available. For any reasonable use case I can think of, ad-hoc mode should be enough. The only usability advantage of being an AP would be that it can send beacon packets that allow other devices to detect an available network, but sending beacon would be a battery drain anyway. Assuming the use case made sense, the Freerunner could be powered externally. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mailuk/taglines/isp/control/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=52431/*http://es.docs.yahoo.com/mail/overview/index.html La bandeja de entrada más inteligente. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My experience with the Freerunner
Joerg Reisenweber wrote: Am Fr 30. Mai 2008 schrieb Marco Trevisan (Treviño): Anyway, I'll appreciate so much if another one of the lucky Freerunner owners could make a battery test (also just a standby one) in a place with low GSM coverage... Standby doesn't vary with signal-strength. Just receiver is active (except T3210 every few hours), so it should be no difference. Ah... Thanks for the info. I thought this since my actual mobile battery really dies so slowly when I'm on places where there's good GSM coverage. But maybe it's due to something else! -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Can update freerunner CPU to ARM926EJ-S
I saw the Neo fr PCB diagram,it same can't do. also they have different pin number,and size. :-( - Original Message - From: Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 3:35 AM Subject: Re: Can update freerunner CPU to ARM926EJ-S The freerunner CPU is ARM920T, can't support android system img, I think it can update to ARM926EJ-S ? The Neo is not a desktop computer, so I really doubt that the CPU is socketed :-) So unless you're good at soldering SMT components, I think you can forget the CPU upgrade (even if you are, I have no way of telling whether the upgrade would work or not). So it's a good thing that: AFAIK when Google Android code will be available it will be possible to port it to work with ARMv4 CPUs. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Meta Toolchain Release (2008 May)
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 9:34 PM, John Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 04:19:37PM -0700, Pranav Desai wrote: I am still having trouble building openmoko-dialer2 with the toolchain. I can build openmoko-sample2 just fine. The toolchain seems to be missing libpulse. Initially, om-conf openmok-dialer2 gave both libebook and libpulse as missing. I found that libebook is present in the toolchain, but was missing the .pc file. After adding that it went ahead and only complained about libpulse. So I started building pulseaudio-0.9.10 with the toolchain. After resolving some dependencies like liboil and libsndfile, I was able to build libpulse. But now I stuck at libjana. checking pkg-config is at least version 0.9.0... yes checking for DIALER... yes checking for JANA... configure: error: Package requirements (libjana libjana-ecal libjana-gtk) were not met: No package 'libjana' found No package 'libjana-ecal' found No package 'libjana-gtk' found Any ideas, suggestions or can anyone provide with the required libraries ? Thanks -- Pranav libjana isn't packaged in toolchain by default. the default compopents are: libmokogsmd2, mokoui2, mokopanelui2, mokojournal2 and dependencies. we cannot package everything or it's going to be a huge toolchain. however, there are 2 interesting aliases in environment-setup: I understand, and you don't have to include all the libraries, but atleast the prerequisite for building a standard openmoko app should be included. alias opkg='LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/openmoko/arm/lib /usr/local/openmoko/arm/bin/opkg-cl -f /usr/local/openmoko/arm/etc/opkg-sdk.conf -o /usr/local/openmoko/arm' alias opkg-target='LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/openmoko/arm/lib /usr/local/openmoko/arm/bin/opkg-cl -f /usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/etc/opkg.conf -o /usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi' which means by opkg-target we can add the packages we need into the toolchain directory. at the moment the content of /usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/etc/opkg.conf is incorrectly pointed to local directories in build host. if we replace it by the corresponding URIs such as http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/ http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/neo1973 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/om-gta01 then _theoretically_ we can just do opkg-target update opkg-target install libjana-dev I haven't tried this approach before because OE suits me just fine. however, for those who just want to make apps I think it's an right way to start. Regards, John ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Packaging third-party applications (Was: Meta Toolchain Release (2008 May))
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 5:49 PM, Rod Whitby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pranav Desai wrote: But that brings another question (which probably needs another thread), where do we store/host the ported apps if we have some? * Can we put it somewhere on downloads.openmoko.org http://downloads.openmoko.org * Should we create another project on project.openmoko.org http://project.openmoko.org. * Or do we put the responsibility on whoever ported it, to host the app. The usual way is to add the package to OpenEmbedded, and then add it's name to the task-openmoko-feed.bb recipe so that it automatically gets built, packaged and deployed to the official download site. But wouldn't that mean writing a recipe for all packages that we want to add? Many third party apps already have a makefile setup, why do you want to change that ? Especially, if they can be build easily enough with the toolchain. Packaging and publishing random applications here, there and everywhere is just going to fragment the set of applications available to users. Thats not going to stop anyway, but if we have a central place where people can put their packages, maybe it can be reduced. Also, I am much more likely to trust a package recipe that I can build and install myself using OpenEmbedded (or download from an official site where the package has been built from source by a trusted autobuild system), rather than downloading some unknown, possibly virus-tainted binary package from some random site ... -- Rod ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
gsmd question
Hi, I am a mobile phone developer and I am looking at the GSMd application on OpenMoko. Seems all the AT command are sent to UART without waiting the OK or ERROR response. Because the intrinsic of AT command, if you don't wait for the response of OK or ERROR, but send successive (quick enough) AT command to GSM chip, you will get multiple OK or ERROR and you can't distinguish which one is correspond to the response, because there is no ID information in the OK or ERROR. Please correct me if I am wrong. Thanks. Bin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Packaging third-party applications (Was: Meta Toolchain Release (2008 May))
Pranav Desai wrote: On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 5:49 PM, Rod Whitby [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The usual way is to add the package to OpenEmbedded, and then add it's name to the task-openmoko-feed.bb http://task-openmoko-feed.bb recipe so that it automatically gets built, packaged and deployed to the official download site. But wouldn't that mean writing a recipe for all packages that we want to add? That is correct. Many third party apps already have a makefile setup, why do you want to change that ? Writing a recipe does not involve changing the existing Makefile. If the existing Makefile is written properly, then the recipe should be about 5 lines long. But the major reason to do this is the one I gave below, which you didn't comment on. Security and trust of third-party apps should be a very significant consideration for the Openmoko community. Also, I am much more likely to trust a package recipe that I can build and install myself using OpenEmbedded (or download from an official site where the package has been built from source by a trusted autobuild system), rather than downloading some unknown, possibly virus-tainted binary package from some random site ... -- Rod ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Meta Toolchain Release (2008 May)
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 06:44:42PM -0700, Pranav Desai wrote: On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 9:34 PM, John Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: libjana isn't packaged in toolchain by default. the default compopents are: libmokogsmd2, mokoui2, mokopanelui2, mokojournal2 and dependencies. we cannot package everything or it's going to be a huge toolchain. however, there are 2 interesting aliases in environment-setup: I understand, and you don't have to include all the libraries, but atleast the prerequisite for building a standard openmoko app should be included. That is exactly the problem. You see, if we put april software update into consideration (these are standard openmoko apps as well), the prerequisite will not be small for a toolchain. I'm still thinking about this out of my personal interest. Regards, John ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner Sale Price in India - Official partner with Openmoko
Thanks a heap for this info, it'll certainly help. And its comforting to know I'm not too far behind this almost-like-a-revolution. I did get an email from THE man himself mentioning other details pertaining to purchase of FreeRunner in India. (excited!) As for the discount, well... congratulations! 15.4K is OMG!! Like they say, early bird gets the umm.. Neo! :) Rahul J On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 11:30 PM, Ganesha Krishna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: Rahul Joshi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 17:32:43 +0530 Subject: Re: Freerunner Sale Price in India - Official partner with Openmoko Hi everyone, I'm a little (actually quite) late in this scene so pardon my ignorance on any goofy questions. I am a LAMP (and uhm ... Java) developer and had always wanted/waited for a dream box like this. Fortunately (or unfortunately) I came across openmoko 1 year late. But better late than never... yeah. Welcome, I dont think you are very late at all, there were only a few neo1973s, the first generation free phones (swathanthra phone as some one pointed out) sold in India (according to my very casual research of orkut/blog sphere ) and one had to order them directly from openmoko, no reseller. The new hardware (Freerunner) is much more juicier(sic) considering the variety in Indian phone market. I'll be honest when I say I came pretty close to buying an iPhone when I went to US recently but the whole Out of Stock thing drove me mad. In fact I started harboring anti-Apple feelings ($20 for s/w upgrades, overtly-closed-and-controlled UI environment etc. etc.) that I decided to stick with my iMate SP5m until something really gets to me. And here I am. of course, its the 'Handheld of the free and Phone of the brave'. So, my first few questions (and I'm thrilled to know a thread on Neo Indian retailing exists!!) - 1. Where in India can I purchase Neo FreeRunner and its related accessories once it gets released. I know Rakshat is the man here but can we get some more info on this please? Can I pre-order one (just in case it runs out of stock!) As far as I know (and I have followed this mailing list since its inception) Rakshat is THE Man. you can pre-order at his website. These are his mails form the archive http://openmoko.markmail.org/message/4gek2hynltrysxtw?q=rakshat http://openmoko.markmail.org/message/3ytp6yfuxoy6bwfj?q=rakshat 2. Whats this talk of 15.4K discount Mr. Krishna is talking about. How can I be entitled to it as well? :D :P The first few phones were offered for a discount, I was one of the early birds. unfortunately he has announced that all the slots are taken as of now barring last minute cancellations. Dig thru here to for the whole scoop. http://openmoko.markmail.org/search/?q=rakshat Thanks! Rahul J aka sector7 -GK ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
