Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)

[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

> but there is definitely a "i want as insane a dpi as i can get"  
> group here.
> this is for sure. the question is - is it really the majority of  
> users. :)


Hm. You can't answer that before defining who "the user" is (choose  
between: me, you, this community, worldwide population)?
Discussing the QVGA vs. VGA vs. new CPU question before answering the  
above question can't find an end...

BTW: If we go to the level "There appears to be a small 'i want as  
insane cheap display i can get' group here.", this will become
opinion bashing because it shows up different personal targets.  
Marketing science has invented the concept of "target groups"
and plurality in product offerings to cover that problem. And the role  
of a "Product Manager" to balance and decide that (I have
done such a job for 10 years).

Nikolaus


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Re: GPS <--> AGPS

[Tim Niemeyer]

Hallo Brad,

* Brad Midgley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [06-06-08 07:14]:
> Joseph
> 
> > That's what I, as an archaeologist, want D-GPS for :)
> 
> gpsd has a mode where it listens to both the gps and an online dgps
> source and produces corrected output. See the manpage for gpsd. I
> think you have to have the unit online continuously.
Does gpsd have control over the various satelite signals? I thought
D-GPS only works before position calculation. If gpsd only gets the
composed position, then it's not possible to do D-GPS.


Tim Niemeyer


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Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)

[Rahul Joshi]

The root of all evil it seems is glamo. Why not remove the damn thing and
put in a new VGA hw which performs at the current CPU speeds? Is this
something not doable? There was a topic about SDIO multiplexing sometime
back and a hack to achieve this. Any headway on that?

Rahul J


On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> > but there is definitely a "i want as insane a dpi as i can get"
> > group here.
> > this is for sure. the question is - is it really the majority of
> > users. :)
>
>
> Hm. You can't answer that before defining who "the user" is (choose
> between: me, you, this community, worldwide population)?
> Discussing the QVGA vs. VGA vs. new CPU question before answering the
> above question can't find an end...
>
> BTW: If we go to the level "There appears to be a small 'i want as
> insane cheap display i can get' group here.", this will become
> opinion bashing because it shows up different personal targets.
> Marketing science has invented the concept of "target groups"
> and plurality in product offerings to cover that problem. And the role
> of a "Product Manager" to balance and decide that (I have
> done such a job for 10 years).
>
> Nikolaus
>
>
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OM for ASIA

[shahbaz khan]

Hi,

I have gone through some of the emails from this group about getting the
Freerunner. I would like to know that is shipping done to Pakistan? I have
not seen anything about Asian distributors yet.

-- 
Shahbaz Khan

Group: http://serg.imsciences.edu.pk

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cell: +92 300 5944647
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Re: GPS <--> AGPS

[Brad Midgley]

Tim

>> gpsd has a mode where it listens to both the gps and an online dgps
>> source and produces corrected output. See the manpage for gpsd. I
>> think you have to have the unit online continuously.
> Does gpsd have control over the various satelite signals? I thought
> D-GPS only works before position calculation. If gpsd only gets the
> composed position, then it's not possible to do D-GPS.

I'm not an expert here, but maybe correction does require more raw
data. It might depend on what the protocol is between gpsd and the
gps. The gpsd docs don't shed any more light on it. It would be a good
question for the gpsd mailing lists.

-- 
Brad

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Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)

[polz]

IMHO, if the 320x240 display is readable under bright sunlight, it might be a 
better choice than the VGA display used in the GTA01. With the current 
display, the phone looks great inside a building / conference hall / photo 
studio, but it's pretty much useless as a GPS device you'd want to use when 
you're outside.

Before releasing a phone for the general public, pleasepleaseplease use it as 
your only phone for a week or so. Otherwise, the negative reaction from the 
press might cost you your reputation.

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Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)

[thomasg]

Glamo _will_ be out in GTA03. Unfortunately the slow arm9 will stay. Better
then with glamo it seems, but not perfect.

On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 9:53 AM, Rahul Joshi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The root of all evil it seems is glamo. Why not remove the damn thing and
> put in a new VGA hw which performs at the current CPU speeds? Is this
> something not doable? There was a topic about SDIO multiplexing sometime
> back and a hack to achieve this. Any headway on that?
>
> Rahul J
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Re: Is case design changing for GTA03?

[Dotan Cohen]

2008/6/8 rakshat hooja <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> We also got a camera on GTA03.
>>
>> cheers
>> jOERG
>>
> Any specs of the camera. Please go for good quality optics and maybe 3x
> optical zoom (the neo is thick enough i guess :-) rather that higher mega
> pixels on a cheap sensor. Except for the SE K750/800/850i series and Nokia
> N95 series (and some Japanese phones like my Sharp 903) I have not seen a
> camera phone where the photos are usable when transfered to the computer or
> printed. In most cases the camera is just there to add a feature to feed the
> public coolness factor so the price can be increased.

My Nokia 6280 has a terrific 2 megapixel camera. Other that the
extremely wideangle lens, the pictures are of quality approaching my
Fuji s5500 in daylight.

I should comment about the earlier message regarding not including a
lanyard: I have drilled holes in past phones to attach lanyards. I
think that a lanyard on the bottom left of the phone (when the phone
is in the talk position on the ear) is essential. I certainly hope
that the GTA03 will either have a dedicated lanyard mount at that
position, or enough meat in the plastic to allow me to drill my own.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Re: OM for ASIA

[Masoom Alam]

Plus, I want to ask in this context that is which phone will be suitable for
Pakistan, Europe one or the US one.

Any location, where i can get this information.

Regards,
MM Alam

On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 1:10 PM, shahbaz khan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have gone through some of the emails from this group about getting the
> Freerunner. I would like to know that is shipping done to Pakistan? I have
> not seen anything about Asian distributors yet.
>
> --
> Shahbaz Khan
>
> Group: http://serg.imsciences.edu.pk
>
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> cell: +92 300 5944647
> ___
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>


-- 
Muhammad Masoom Alam
Univeristy of Innsbruck
Austria
Off# +43 512 507 6462
Mob# 0650 543 8975
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Re: Is case design changing for GTA03?

[Esben Stien]

"rakshat hooja" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Please go for good quality optics and maybe 3x optical zoom

..and 3CCD;). Really, though; the phone should be modular enough to be
able to pop a new one in. Like the hole in the Neo, now, we should
have lots of modules to pop in there. Like jibbitz on crocs shoes,
this hole is meant to be filled.

-- 
Esben Stien is [EMAIL PROTECTED] s  a 
 http://www. s tn m
  irc://irc.  b  -  i  .   e/%23contact
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Re: Yummy new CPU/GPU combo

[The Rasterman]

On Sat, 07 Jun 2008 19:15:09 -0700 Dave O'Connor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

> Thanks for the response and don't take this the wrong way but it doesn't
> really answer my question. :)
> 
> Openmoko could take these sweet spec components and do stuff with them.
> That would lead to increased sales for these component manufacturers.
> It's in their interest to make them, and hopefully therefore the specs,
> available to you. 1) Why don't they make the components available to
> anyone other than the manufacturers for phones meant for the japanese
> market, even those who wouldn't care about open specs?

actually all we are is a pain for them. we are such low volume - negotiating a
sales contract is not even worth their time. not to mention their sourcing and
component selection is proprietary information to those manufacturers and they
aren't about to give that info to us (a competitor).

unless we are being their phones wholesale - much like an oem, i don't see
anything really happening.

> Regards
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 2008-06-08 at 10:28 +1000, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> > On Sat, 07 Jun 2008 12:19:08 -0700 Dave O'Connor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > babbled:
> > 
> > > Just out of interest, why don't other countries get access to these
> > > components sooner? Why do Japanese consumers get them first? Do they pay
> > > significantly more than the rest on phones so they're a better market
> > > for manufacturers or could openmoko steal a lead here in the rest of the
> > > world?
> > > 
> > > Might it be an idea to appeal to these component manufacturers
> > > competitive sides and say "if you give us the specs to write open
> > > drivers we can give you sales in the rest of the world"?
> > 
> > japanese phones are all about tech specs - and that's it. well that and
> > looking sexy (nice design/cases). usability is pretty poor. their software
> > and ui's are atrocious mostly. but that doesn't matter because they can do
> > the "i'm cooler than you. my phone has more pixels!" (irrespective if they
> > can even use more than 10% of the features of the phone, nor see the pixels
> > they have so many of...) :)
> > 
> > > Regards
> > > Dave
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Sat, 2008-06-07 at 16:51 +0800, Wilkinson, Alex wrote:
> > > > 0n Fri, Jun 06, 2008 at 12:46:57PM +1000, Carsten Haitzler wrote: 
> > > > 
> > > > >On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 10:20:44 -0400 (EDT) Ken Young
> > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> > quick question - would you prefer a qvga lcd (save a bit of
> > > > >> > cost) since we'e going to need to software-drive all graphics
> > > > >> > - the fewer pixels you have to fill, the better for speed. i'm
> > > > >> > really tossing up if the speed of qvga is worth the loss of
> > > > >> > resolution. i'm just not sure.
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Please, please, please, please, please don't drop to a QVGA LCD
> > > > >> on future OM phones.   The beautiful full VGA screens on the neo
> > > > >> and Freerunner are just about the only piece of hardware they
> > > > >> have which is better than what you find on a typical smart phone.
> > > > >
> > > > >you haven't been to japan lately. a whole host of their phones are
> > > > >834x480... in 3.2" screens! totally nuts!
> > > > 
> > > > Raster, got a link to any pictures of these magic phones ?
> > > > 
> > > >  -aW
> > > > 
> > > > IMPORTANT: This email remains the property of the Australian Defence
> > > > Organisation and is subject to the jurisdiction of section 70 of the
> > > > CRIMES ACT 1914.  If you have received this email in error, you are
> > > > requested to contact the sender and delete the email.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ___
> > > > Openmoko community mailing list
> > > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___
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> > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > 
> > 
> 


-- 
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Re: Yummy new CPU/GPU combo

[The Rasterman]

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 13:03:59 +0800 Simon Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> The big companies making these hi-tech electronic parts are probably
> only interested in orders it the hundred of thousands if not millions of
> parts.

500k+ are the order sizes. often in multi-millions. that is what they "start"
dealing with. it's like going to cost-co who sell beer by the case and going
"but we only want 1 bottle!" (sorry - buy the case, or go somewhere else). :)

> There is less risk to them of intellectual property being stolen or
> parts copied having a few customers buying large quantities at low
> margins than lots of smaller companies buying small numbers at higher
> margins and it is also less hassle. It is probably not worth the big
> companies to get their lawyers to draw up the contracts for small
> quantities (we all know how much lawyers cost!)
> 
> Then there are the cosy exclusive deals that only the big companies have
> the power to negotiate.
> 
> I would think it has been a big advantage for Openmoko having FIC
> behind it when trying to source all the specialised components.
> 
> Even then they are still a small fish in a very large and expensive
> pond.
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2008-06-07 at 19:15 -0700, Dave O'Connor wrote:
> 
> > Thanks for the response and don't take this the wrong way but it doesn't
> > really answer my question. :)
> > 
> > Openmoko could take these sweet spec components and do stuff with them.
> > That would lead to increased sales for these component manufacturers.
> > It's in their interest to make them, and hopefully therefore the specs,
> > available to you. 1) Why don't they make the components available to
> > anyone other than the manufacturers for phones meant for the japanese
> > market, even those who wouldn't care about open specs?
> > 
> > Regards
> > Dave
> > 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: Yummy new CPU/GPU combo

[The Rasterman]

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 03:58:51 +0200 Marcel Wirth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > japanese phones are all about tech specs - and that's it. well that and
> > looking sexy (nice design/cases). usability is pretty poor. their software
> > and ui's are atrocious mostly. but that doesn't matter because they can do
> > the "i'm cooler than you. my phone has more pixels!" (irrespective if they
> > can even use more than 10% of the features of the phone, nor see the pixels
> > they have so many of...) :)
> 
> I think the high resolution / high DPI might come in handy when 
> displaying those complex kanji characters. So maybe it's not just about 
> having better tech specs...

they were able to display them just fine on half the dpi :) trust me. i spent
enough time reading them :)


-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)

[The Rasterman]

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 09:02:03 +0200 "Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> > but there is definitely a "i want as insane a dpi as i can get"  
> > group here.
> > this is for sure. the question is - is it really the majority of  
> > users. :)
> 
> 
> Hm. You can't answer that before defining who "the user" is (choose  
> between: me, you, this community, worldwide population)?
> Discussing the QVGA vs. VGA vs. new CPU question before answering the  
> above question can't find an end...
> 
> BTW: If we go to the level "There appears to be a small 'i want as  
> insane cheap display i can get' group here.", this will become
> opinion bashing because it shows up different personal targets.  
> Marketing science has invented the concept of "target groups"
> and plurality in product offerings to cover that problem. And the role  
> of a "Product Manager" to balance and decide that (I have
> done such a job for 10 years).

i am sure it has - but given that the target group is not well defined - i have
yet to see a definition, nor see any research or statistics, nor anything else
concrete - it is all conjecture.

we could just not ever even ask you guys and you get what you are given. too
bad. no input at all. i've opened up the floor for input - but i'm trying to
dig specific things out of it - not things that smell of"i just want higher
specs". or keeping up with the joneses. i want real use case scenarios that
make real sense. :)

-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)

[Flemming Richter Mikkelsen]

On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 11:57 AM, polz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> IMHO, if the 320x240 display is readable under bright sunlight, it might be a
> better choice than the VGA display used in the GTA01. With the current
> display, the phone looks great inside a building / conference hall / photo
> studio, but it's pretty much useless as a GPS device you'd want to use when
> you're outside.
>
> Before releasing a phone for the general public, pleasepleaseplease use it as
> your only phone for a week or so. Otherwise, the negative reaction from the
> press might cost you your reputation.

Full ACK! Trasflective QVGA is better

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Is case design changing for GTA03?

[Breakable]

I would propose to take a look at this before any case design:
http://www.icontrolpad.com/
Basically its a dock for IPhone.
So the idea is to allow the case to be integrated with other electronics.
This allows for many cool applications, where Neo can be a brain of some
system, that has
additional controls, more power, external interfaces, body of a robot... etc
;)

Regards,
Breakable
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Is case design changing for GTA03?

[Breakable]

I would propose to take a look at this before any case design:
http://www.icontrolpad.com/
Basically its a dock for IPhone.
So the idea is to allow the case to be integrated with other electronics.
This allows for many cool applications, where Neo can be a brain of some
system, that has
additional controls, more power, external interfaces, body of a robot... etc
;)

Regards,
Breakable
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Is case design changing for GTA03?

[Breakable]

I would propose to take a look at this before any case design:
http://www.icontrolpad.com/
Basically its a dock for IPhone.
So the idea is to allow the case to be integrated with other electronics.
This allows for many cool applications, where Neo can be a brain of some
system, that has
additional controls, more power, external interfaces, body of a robot... etc
;)

Regards,
Breakable
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InvisibleShield screen protectors

[Yorick Matthys]

I asked the company if they were willing to manufacture screen protectors for 
the Freerunner, this is an answer I got:


  


Hello Yorick,



Were you wanting us to provide you invisibleSHIELDs directly so that
you could place them on your device before you sell them? Or would you
like an invisibleSHIELD created for in case your customers would like
the unparalleled protection?



In either case, we would be happy to design an invisibleSHIELD for you.
If you want the invisibleSHIELD to cover the Full Body of your
Smartphone, we would need you to send us one of your devices so that we
can take precise measurements and design the invisibleSHIELD to fit
your smartphone the best.



Please let me know if you have any questions.



Warm regards,








DAN THUESON










Account Manager, Reseller Division 



ZAGG Inc.

3855 S 500 W STE J, SLC, UT 84115

801.263.0699 x103 (o)

801.263.1848(f)

HOME OF THE



Nasdaq
BB Symbol: ZAGG

ZAGG.com








_

naturally it's option 2.

But do we want full case protection?
Personally
I will probably settle with just screenprotection. But if there are
people who want full protection, maybe we can persuade Steve (or
someone else at Openmoko) to send a sample to their company?

Does anybody know if the FreeRunner's case is adequatly scratch-resistant? 
(I'll post this question on the device-owner list)


y
_
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Re: InvisibleShield screen protectors

[Martin Šenkeřík]

I'll probably want full case protection, as I want FreeRunner to stay with  
me for more than one-two years as normal phones did :-)

And it is not enough to offer them CAD files of device?

ohin


Dne Sun, 08 Jun 2008 15:35:07 +0200 Yorick Matthys  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> napsal/-a:

>
> I asked the company if they were willing to manufacture screen  
> protectors for the Freerunner, this is an answer I got:
>
>
>
>
> Hello Yorick,
>
>
>
> Were you wanting us to provide you invisibleSHIELDs directly so that
> you could place them on your device before you sell them? Or would you
> like an invisibleSHIELD created for in case your customers would like
> the unparalleled protection?
>
>
>
> In either case, we would be happy to design an invisibleSHIELD for you.
> If you want the invisibleSHIELD to cover the Full Body of your
> Smartphone, we would need you to send us one of your devices so that we
> can take precise measurements and design the invisibleSHIELD to fit
> your smartphone the best.
>
>
>
> Please let me know if you have any questions.
>
>
>
> Warm regards,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> DAN THUESON
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Account Manager, Reseller Division
>
>
>
> ZAGG Inc.
> Does anybody know if the FreeRunner's case is adequatly  
> scratch-resistant? (I'll post this question on the device-owner list)
> 3855 S 500 W STE J, SLC, UT 84115
>
> 801.263.0699 x103 (o)
>
> 801.263.1848(f)
>
> HOME OF THE
>
>
>
> Nasdaq
> BB Symbol: ZAGG
>
> ZAGG.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _
>
> naturally it's option 2.
>
> But do we want full case protection?
> Personally
> I will probably settle with just screenprotection. But if there are
> people who want full protection, maybe we can persuade Steve (or
> someone else at Openmoko) to send a sample to their company?
>
> Does anybody know if the FreeRunner's case is adequatly  
> scratch-resistant? (I'll post this question on the device-owner list)
>
>
> y
> _
> Download Messenger op je mobiel!
> http://www.windowslivemobile.msn.com/nl/



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Re: GPS <--> AGPS

[beren]

On Sunday 08 June 2008 10:41:37 Brad Midgley wrote:
> Tim
>
> >> gpsd has a mode where it listens to both the gps and an online dgps
> >> source and produces corrected output. See the manpage for gpsd. I
> >> think you have to have the unit online continuously.
> >
> > Does gpsd have control over the various satelite signals? I thought
> > D-GPS only works before position calculation. If gpsd only gets the
> > composed position, then it's not possible to do D-GPS.
>
> I'm not an expert here, but maybe correction does require more raw
> data. It might depend on what the protocol is between gpsd and the
> gps. The gpsd docs don't shed any more light on it. It would be a good
> question for the gpsd mailing lists.

The problem here is not with gpsd but rather that we might not be able to get 
the required raw satellite measurements out of the Antaris chip due to some 
licence restriction :(
Not having a Freerunner at hand, I wrote a crude test program for accessing 
the required rxm-raw message of the GPS chip and sent it to Andy Green. The 
results were not encouraging - although I'd love to hear some official 
statement about the license status for the GPS chip before jumping to 
premature conclusions but currently it seems that DGPS will not be possible 
with the Freerunner.

--beren

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Re: Is case design changing for GTA03?

[Ortwin Regel]

Wow, that's quite awesome! I read around a little and it seems to be
made by CraigX who is also behind the Pandora and is interested in
selling Openmoko phones in the UK. So getting him to make a variant of
this design for future (or present?) Openmoko phones might actually be
a realistic possibility!

Ortwin

On 6/8/08, Breakable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would propose to take a look at this before any case design:
> http://www.icontrolpad.com/
> Basically its a dock for IPhone.
> So the idea is to allow the case to be integrated with other electronics.
> This allows for many cool applications, where Neo can be a brain of some
> system, that has
> additional controls, more power, external interfaces, body of a robot... etc
> ;)
>
> Regards,
> Breakable
>

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InvisibleShield screen protectors

[Yorick Matthys]

I already offered them the CAD files...
___
Martin Šenkeřík said: 
I'll probably want full case protection, as I want FreeRunner to stay with  
me for more than one-two years as normal phones did :-)

And it is not enough to offer them CAD files of device?

ohin
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Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)

[Peter Nijs]

Op Sunday 08 June 2008 14:25:35 schreef Carsten Haitzler:
> On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 09:02:03 +0200 "Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> babbled:
> > > but there is definitely a "i want as insane a dpi as i can get"
> > > group here.
> > > this is for sure. the question is - is it really the majority of
> > > users. :)
> >
> > Hm. You can't answer that before defining who "the user" is (choose
> > between: me, you, this community, worldwide population)?
> > Discussing the QVGA vs. VGA vs. new CPU question before answering the
> > above question can't find an end...
> >
> > BTW: If we go to the level "There appears to be a small 'i want as
> > insane cheap display i can get' group here.", this will become
> > opinion bashing because it shows up different personal targets.
> > Marketing science has invented the concept of "target groups"
> > and plurality in product offerings to cover that problem. And the role
> > of a "Product Manager" to balance and decide that (I have
> > done such a job for 10 years).
>
> i am sure it has - but given that the target group is not well defined - i
> have yet to see a definition, nor see any research or statistics, nor
> anything else concrete - it is all conjecture.
>
> we could just not ever even ask you guys and you get what you are given.
> too bad. no input at all. i've opened up the floor for input - but i'm
> trying to dig specific things out of it - not things that smell of"i just
> want higher specs". or keeping up with the joneses. i want real use case
> scenarios that make real sense. :)

I think I've got a real use case scenario. I don't have extraordinarily 
eye-sight. In fact, with two eyes combined I've got just under 10/10 with 
quite strong glasses. (Not good enough to become a commercial pilot.)

I've don a little test with my current smartphone. It has a 2.8 inch qvga 
display. I've also searched for the smallest, comfortably readable printed 
text. I found it on the back of my first pda. It's the text "tested to comply 
with". Than I've opened word mobile on my current smartphone and typed a 
little text. I made it as small as the printed text on the back of my oldest 
pda. The text in word wasn't readable anymore. It was reduced to a random 
bunch of black and white pixels.

Also watching pictures on the qvga screen isn't such a pleasure, but I've 
never had "trouble" watching movies. Another reason why I'm happy watching 
qvga movies is because they are much smaller for your phone's memory.

Conclusion: I'm certainly a big VGA proponent. Especially when browsing the 
internet and watching pictures.


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Re: InvisibleShield screen protectors

[Ilja O.]

On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 5:11 PM, Martin Šenkeřík <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> I'll probably want full case protection, as I want FreeRunner to stay with
> me for more than one-two years as normal phones did :-)
>
>
Same here
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Re: InvisibleShield screen protectors

[Joerg Reisenweber]

Am So  8. Juni 2008 schrieb Yorick Matthys:
> Does anybody know if the FreeRunner's case is adequatly scratch-resistant? 
(I'll post this question on the device-owner list)

It's like every of those mockup-rubber softtouch-surfaces: amazingly 
insensitive to small scratches, but especially on aged plastics (probably 
when the softener has evaporated partly over the times, tested for some GTA01 
case) you can eventually peel off the whole maybe 0.05mm thin coating with 
your fingernail by applying brute force, creating a e.g. 0.05x1.5x10mm bold 
scratch. 
So in some respect it's more sturdy than ordinary shiny plastic which gets 
dull by lots of microscopic scars very easy, in some respect the damage done 
to it is more severe when it ever happens (you probably couldn't scratch any 
other plastic, like the one found on the two outer 'rings' of Neo's case, 
with your fingernail).
I have a 15 year old sony scoopman with same kind of surface. It has been 
living in my pocket for ~10y 24/7/365, and still looks pretty good. It has 
one ~1.0x1.5mm scratch of the kind described above, and one corner got shiny, 
rest almost as new.

To use a screenprotector sounds like a good idea to me. Best way would be to 
remove the front lid (see wiki on how to do that) and place an oversized one 
directly on the LCM. You may use any type of protector that meets your taste 
and is large enough to cut it to fit.

Just my 2 €cent, YMMV
/jOERG


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Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)

[joakim]

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 09:06:16 +0300 Flyin_bbb8 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
>
> actually - no. most linux developers and users i know need contacts/glasses 
> and
> they can never read my screen and complain about my fonts being so small all
> the time (not that i will ever change. i love my small fonts!), but i ma going
> off anecdotal evidence over many years of me being one of a very small 
> minority
> who can read and use such a high dpi with small fonts. i am bemused by so many
> vocal people here claiming to me what seems to be the reverse of my experience
> over many years - as well as going directly against actual product specs - eg,
> iphone dpi is very much lower than the neo, but a large margin, but users rave
> how nice it is.
>
> but there is definitely a "i want as insane a dpi as i can get" group here.
> this is for sure. the question is - is it really the majority of users. :)

As a data point, I'm planning to get 5 freerunners for different people
in my household. High dpi will probably only be interesting for one of
these, my own. I tend to like high dpi for reading. I dont care at all
about moving graphics for this kind of device, only text.



>
>> Well were all those 'never see them' people linux users and interested
>> in openmoko? Haha we might just all be gifted people ! :D
>> 
>> On 6/7/08, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 01:30:43 +0100 Stroller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > babbled:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> On 6 Jun 2008, at 23:19, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
>> >> >> ...
>> >> >> Let's reverse the question - would you reduce the resolution of your
>> >> >> desktop system?
>> >> >> What do you currently have? 1024*1280 or more?
>> >> >> You can still do everything like writing software, e-mail, web
>> >> >> browsing, gaming.
>> >> >> Probably even faster. But how would it appear? Future oriented or old
>> >> >> fashioned?
>> >> >
>> >> > this is different - because it's me - my eyesight is better than
>> >> > 20/20 and i
>> >> > use the highest res i can get, when i can get it as i know i can
>> >> > read my
>> >> > miniscule 8pt or less fonts. but no one else can read my screen -
>> >> > they all
>> >> > complain that it's too hard and i am forever upping font sizes if i
>> >> > want anyone
>> >> > to read something on it. i know *I* am fine with it, but the vast
>> >> > majority of
>> >> > other people can't read my screen. this is why i am cutting myself
>> >> > out of this
>> >> > - trying to not be personal about it as i know already i'm an
>> >> > exception to the
>> >> > rule.
>> >>
>> >> Hi there,
>> >>
>> >> I haven't posted on this topic before because I'm not able to
>> >> personally compare VGA & QVGA 2" phone screens.
>> >>
>> >> However my eyesight is also better than 20/20, and display quality is
>> >> generally quite visible to me.
>> >>
>> >> Your statements have seemed to say that QVGA is "just as good" as VGA
>> >> for most people, and I have been sceptical of this - I find that my
>> >> current phone (P990i) is QVGA, and that is rubbish for viewing
>> >> webpages. Since you have 20/20 eyesight and can view tiny fonts at
>> >> high resolutions I'm inclined to believe that a VGA screen will, for
>> >> me, be better for displaying webpages & PDFs - I'll be able to fit
>> >> more on the screen and my eyesight will allow me to read the smaller
>> >> text.
>> >>
>> >> So my vote is for VGA (or even widescreen VGA, like the PSP?).
>> >>
>> >> Stroller.
>> >
>> > it will be better - of course. what' i'm baffled about is why all of a
>> > sudden
>> > here a lot of "excellent vision gifted" people turn up, whereas in real 
>> > life
>> > i
>> > never see them... :)
>> >
>> > --
>> > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >
>> > ___
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>> > community@lists.openmoko.org
>> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community> >
>> 
>> -- 
>> Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com
>> 
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Re: Is case design changing for GTA03?

[Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen]

Sunday 08 June 2008 Ortwin Regel wrote:
> Wow, that's quite awesome! I read around a little and it seems to be
> made by CraigX who is also behind the Pandora and is interested in
> selling Openmoko phones in the UK. So getting him to make a variant of
> this design for future (or present?) Openmoko phones might actually be
> a realistic possibility!

  Well, seeing as though the schematics for the case are freely available, he 
wouldn't even need to make it hook onto the existing case, he could 
potentially make it a *proper* case :)

-- 
..Dan // Leinir..
http://www.leinir.dk/

  Co-
existence
  or no
existence

  - Piet Hein

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Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)

[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

> we could just not ever even ask you guys and you get what you are  
> given. too
> bad. no input at all. i've opened up the floor for input - but i'm  
> trying to
> dig specific things out of it - not things that smell of"i just want  
> higher
> specs". or keeping up with the joneses. i want real use case  
> scenarios that
> make real sense. :)

This discussion starts to become quite boring. Isn't a single  
potential customer who says
"I want it and I am willing to pay for it" enough? There have been  
several here on this list,
if I remember correctly who expressed exactly that.

BTW: a use case doesn't say anything about required quality. It  
describes a sequence of interactions
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_case). Sorry, but I can't disclaim  
my academic history :)

Nikolaus

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Re: Is case design changing for GTA03?

[Ortwin Regel]

lol, I almost forgot that... The only open question is how to connect
the buttons to the phone.

On 6/8/08, Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sunday 08 June 2008 Ortwin Regel wrote:
>> Wow, that's quite awesome! I read around a little and it seems to be
>> made by CraigX who is also behind the Pandora and is interested in
>> selling Openmoko phones in the UK. So getting him to make a variant of
>> this design for future (or present?) Openmoko phones might actually be
>> a realistic possibility!
>
>   Well, seeing as though the schematics for the case are freely available,
> he
> wouldn't even need to make it hook onto the existing case, he could
> potentially make it a *proper* case :)
>
> --
> ..Dan // Leinir..
> http://www.leinir.dk/
>
>   Co-
> existence
>   or no
> existence
>
>   - Piet Hein
>
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Re: InvisibleShield screen protectors

[Andy Selby]

> we would need you to send us one of your devices so that we can take precise
> measurements and design the invisibleSHIELD to fit your smartphone the best.

> maybe we can persuade Steve (or someone
> else at Openmoko) to send a sample to their company?

Note that they don't mention that it needs to work, just send them one
of the devices that failed PVT

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Re: InvisibleShield screen protectors

[digger vermont]

I have one on an N800 and like it.

On Fri, 2008-06-06 at 23:28 +0300, Ilja O. wrote:
> I couldn't find predefined protector[s] for neo (not really a
> surprise, really).
> 
> So, how to obtain one of these for Freerunner? We have CAD files, so I
> don't see problems with measuring case or screen.
> 

I looked at their website awhile ago thinking of the Freerunner. There
is an option to order a custom size.  There is " An initial $7.95
service and processing charge."  My hope is that once one is made it
could me a regular item  without the processing fee.

digger


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Re: InvisibleShield screen protectors

[Alexander Frøyseth]

Andy Selby skrev:

we would need you to send us one of your devices so that we can take precise
measurements and design the invisibleSHIELD to fit your smartphone the best.



  

maybe we can persuade Steve (or someone
else at Openmoko) to send a sample to their company?



Note that they don't mention that it needs to work, just send them one
of the devices that failed PVT

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Thats true
Send them one that don't work.
Or send just a empty case, and ask them nicely to sell the protector 
cheap, and if they do, send them a real neo :D


Alexander Frøyseth
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Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)

[Dotan Cohen]

2008/6/8 The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> iphone dpi is very much lower than the neo, but a large margin, but users rave
> how nice it is.
>

I had the pleasure of playing with an iPhone recently, and I tried to
determine the screen's resolution just by eyeballing it,
unsuccessfully. I have a QVGA Nokia 6288, had another QVGA phone, had
a VGA Dell Axim x50v, and a few other small devices with decent
screens. The iPhone's screen is great not because of the resolution,
but rather, because there is no 'screen door' effect. That means that
white space is white, with no black grid surrounding the pixels as is
typical in most LCD screens. When you cannot see the grid, you cannot
determine resolution and that is why the iPhone screen looks as good
as it does.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
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Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Re: Yummy new CPU/GPU combo

[Gabriel Ambuehl]

On Sunday 08 June 2008 14:23:29 Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> 500k+ are the order sizes. often in multi-millions. that is what they
> "start" dealing with. it's like going to cost-co who sell beer by the case
> and going "but we only want 1 bottle!" (sorry - buy the case, or go
> somewhere else). :)

So there are half a million Pandora consoles in the making right now?



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Re: Yummy new CPU/GPU combo

[Ortwin Regel]

The number I heard was a first run of 3000... ;) (and 100 prototype
devices before that)

Ortwin

On 6/8/08, Gabriel Ambuehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sunday 08 June 2008 14:23:29 Carsten Haitzler wrote:
>> 500k+ are the order sizes. often in multi-millions. that is what they
>> "start" dealing with. it's like going to cost-co who sell beer by the case
>> and going "but we only want 1 bottle!" (sorry - buy the case, or go
>> somewhere else). :)
>
> So there are half a million Pandora consoles in the making right now?
>
>

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Re: Is case design changing for GTA03?

[Ulrik Rasmusen]

Through the USB interface maybe? Or maybe via bluetooth, then there
would be no need to worry about a dangling usb cable.

On Sun, Jun 08, 2008 at 07:31:13PM +0200, Ortwin Regel wrote:
> lol, I almost forgot that... The only open question is how to connect
> the buttons to the phone.
> 
> On 6/8/08, Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Sunday 08 June 2008 Ortwin Regel wrote:
> >> Wow, that's quite awesome! I read around a little and it seems to be
> >> made by CraigX who is also behind the Pandora and is interested in
> >> selling Openmoko phones in the UK. So getting him to make a variant of
> >> this design for future (or present?) Openmoko phones might actually be
> >> a realistic possibility!
> >
> >   Well, seeing as though the schematics for the case are freely available,
> > he
> > wouldn't even need to make it hook onto the existing case, he could
> > potentially make it a *proper* case :)
> >
> > --
> > ..Dan // Leinir..
> > http://www.leinir.dk/
> >
> >   Co-
> > existence
> >   or no
> > existence
> >
> >   - Piet Hein
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> 
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Re: Is case design changing for GTA03?

[Ortwin Regel]

Well, with Bluetooth it would have to have it's own power source (or
be connected to one) so USB sounds most reasonable. It might even
contain an USB hub and expose a number of full size USB ports, maybe
including Y-cable functionality for charging while being host.

Ortwin

On 6/8/08, Ulrik Rasmusen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Through the USB interface maybe? Or maybe via bluetooth, then there
> would be no need to worry about a dangling usb cable.
>
> On Sun, Jun 08, 2008 at 07:31:13PM +0200, Ortwin Regel wrote:
>> lol, I almost forgot that... The only open question is how to connect
>> the buttons to the phone.
>>
>> On 6/8/08, Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > Sunday 08 June 2008 Ortwin Regel wrote:
>> >> Wow, that's quite awesome! I read around a little and it seems to be
>> >> made by CraigX who is also behind the Pandora and is interested in
>> >> selling Openmoko phones in the UK. So getting him to make a variant of
>> >> this design for future (or present?) Openmoko phones might actually be
>> >> a realistic possibility!
>> >
>> >   Well, seeing as though the schematics for the case are freely
>> > available,
>> > he
>> > wouldn't even need to make it hook onto the existing case, he could
>> > potentially make it a *proper* case :)
>> >
>> > --
>> > ..Dan // Leinir..
>> > http://www.leinir.dk/
>> >
>> >   Co-
>> > existence
>> >   or no
>> > existence
>> >
>> >   - Piet Hein
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Openmoko community mailing list
>> > community@lists.openmoko.org
>> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>> >
>>
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Re: Is case design changing for GTA03?

[Robert Taylor]

With a modular design like that, then you could have one device shipped 
out with many configurations possible.

You could then buy the external case for playing games, one with a 
keyboard, etc.

That would really set it appart.

So how about thinking of th 03 and onward in such a modular way?

Oh, my vote is for usb.

- Rob

Ortwin Regel wrote:
> Well, with Bluetooth it would have to have it's own power source (or
> be connected to one) so USB sounds most reasonable. It might even
> contain an USB hub and expose a number of full size USB ports, maybe
> including Y-cable functionality for charging while being host.
>
> Ortwin
>   


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Re: Is case design changing for GTA03?

[Dotan Cohen]

2008/6/9 Robert Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> With a modular design like that, then you could have one device shipped
> out with many configurations possible.
>
> You could then buy the external case for playing games, one with a
> keyboard, etc.
>
> That would really set it appart.
>
> So how about thinking of th 03 and onward in such a modular way?
>
> Oh, my vote is for usb.
>

I would also vote for a USB connection. Easier to set up, and the
peripheral can take power from the phone.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
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A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Re: Debug Board v3 (GTA02) now available

[Bastian Muck]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
 
Flemming Richter Mikkelsen schrieb:
| On 6/6/08, Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|> Ilja O. wrote:
|>> On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 1:52 PM, Christoph Pulster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
|>> > wrote:
|>>
|>> Hello community,
|>>
|>> may I add that I have the debug board now in my shop:
|>> http://www.pulster.de/engl/
|>> index.html?d__omdebug__Openmoko_Debug_Board_Version_v3747.htm
|>>
|>> It's version 3 belonging to GTA02 Freerunner...
|>>
|>>
|>> EUR 149.00
|>>
|>> Are you sure that that's not misprint?
|>> (Just a bit bigger extra charge when comparing with Freerunner, afaicu)
|> Hi,
|> I don't think that is an error: also if Openmoko sell it at 99$, it must
|> to arrive in europe, than you must to add VAT (20% ?) that you have to
|> add environmental taxes, and to add warranty (1 year at least).
|>
|> So is very possible it cost so. And in every case it cost less that all
|> the debug board I never saw :)
|
| Do not confuse USD with EUR.
|  $99 ==  €61
| €149 == $238
|
I guess that there are many things which let the price raise.
61€ + 19% vat = 73€
Then you have to add shipping to germany. And in germany you have to 
grant a warranty of at least 24 month for technical equipment. Usually 
Christoph Pulster has fair prices.

Greetings Bastian
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Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)

[The Rasterman]

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 18:58:15 +0200 "Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> > we could just not ever even ask you guys and you get what you are  
> > given. too
> > bad. no input at all. i've opened up the floor for input - but i'm  
> > trying to
> > dig specific things out of it - not things that smell of"i just want  
> > higher
> > specs". or keeping up with the joneses. i want real use case  
> > scenarios that
> > make real sense. :)
> 
> This discussion starts to become quite boring. Isn't a single  
> potential customer who says
> "I want it and I am willing to pay for it" enough? There have been  
> several here on this list,
> if I remember correctly who expressed exactly that.

no. it is absolutely not enough. why? i am asked by product management to do
things that are just not possible in vga (to do sanely/fast). they come first.
you users come second. in the end if product management want X they get X. and
if for X to happen we go QVGA, then so be it. you guys lose. i need a very very
very strong argument against going to qvga - and that means product management
need to drop a feature.

> BTW: a use case doesn't say anything about required quality. It  
> describes a sequence of interactions
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_case). Sorry, but I can't disclaim  
> my academic history :)

i asked for use case because i am not just talking quality. i am talking a case
where vga makes something possible at all or not. where something just wouldn't
be usable or possible without vga. that is what i asked. i want a use case for
vga. not just a "it looks a bit nicer".

> Nikolaus
> 
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Re: Yummy new CPU/GPU combo

[The Rasterman]

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 22:26:16 +0200 Gabriel Ambuehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> On Sunday 08 June 2008 14:23:29 Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> > 500k+ are the order sizes. often in multi-millions. that is what they
> > "start" dealing with. it's like going to cost-co who sell beer by the case
> > and going "but we only want 1 bottle!" (sorry - buy the case, or go
> > somewhere else). :)
> 
> So there are half a million Pandora consoles in the making right now?

i have no idea. ask them. if you want to source the newest or best components -
you buy in large orders. those also get the better/best prices. others may or
may not find components in smaller quantities later in the product cycle (eg if
chip came out last week - no chance to get it unless you buy 500k+. if you want
12 months, they may sell in smaller batches).

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Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)

[The Rasterman]

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 23:26:15 +0300 "Dotan Cohen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

> 2008/6/8 The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > iphone dpi is very much lower than the neo, but a large margin, but users
> > rave how nice it is.
> >
> 
> I had the pleasure of playing with an iPhone recently, and I tried to
> determine the screen's resolution just by eyeballing it,
> unsuccessfully. I have a QVGA Nokia 6288, had another QVGA phone, had
> a VGA Dell Axim x50v, and a few other small devices with decent
> screens. The iPhone's screen is great not because of the resolution,
> but rather, because there is no 'screen door' effect. That means that
> white space is white, with no black grid surrounding the pixels as is
> typical in most LCD screens. When you cannot see the grid, you cannot
> determine resolution and that is why the iPhone screen looks as good
> as it does.

it has a "screen door" - it's definitely visible :) and the resolution is
320x480. not that high at all. in fact about half the dpi (or so) of the
neo/freerunner.

> Dotan Cohen
> 
> http://what-is-what.com
> http://gibberish.co.il
> א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת
> 
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Re: Ublox AGPS On-line impelementation

[matt_hsu]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> According to previous mail in community list, there is a perl version of
>> AGPS on-line implementation. But it requires to install many packages.
>> The following is the C implementation.
>>
>> 
>
> Could you give me a pointer to the message or a link to the perl one. I
> did not find neither the message nor the implementation
>
>   
Hi Jluis,

Here it is. ;-)
http://people.openmoko.org/matt_hsu/ImplementationAssistNowServerAndClient(GPS.G4-SW-05017-C).pdf


Cheers,

Matt
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Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)

[David Murrell]

I'll go for resolution over pretty graphics any day of the week. 
A day to day example of this is that I don't run compiz on my desktop
machines because it runs faster that way. I'm a function over form kinda
guy. (For the record, the distro is Ubuntu, not slackware, or gentoo, or
anything that uses rpm's)

I don't watch videos on my ipod or my nokia phone, even though I
technically *can*. What I'm really looking forward to is being able to
open up an ssh session from my phone, and do *stuff* from it, regardless
of where I am.

That said, after I get my hands on the Freerunner, I may have a
different opinion. 

Cheers,
David

On Mon, 2008-06-09 at 08:56 +0800, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 18:58:15 +0200 "Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller" <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
> 
> > > we could just not ever even ask you guys and you get what you are  
> > > given. too
> > > bad. no input at all. i've opened up the floor for input - but i'm  
> > > trying to
> > > dig specific things out of it - not things that smell of"i just want  
> > > higher
> > > specs". or keeping up with the joneses. i want real use case  
> > > scenarios that
> > > make real sense. :)
> > 
> > This discussion starts to become quite boring. Isn't a single  
> > potential customer who says
> > "I want it and I am willing to pay for it" enough? There have been  
> > several here on this list,
> > if I remember correctly who expressed exactly that.
> 
> no. it is absolutely not enough. why? i am asked by product management to do
> things that are just not possible in vga (to do sanely/fast). they come first.
> you users come second. in the end if product management want X they get X. and
> if for X to happen we go QVGA, then so be it. you guys lose. i need a very 
> very
> very strong argument against going to qvga - and that means product management
> need to drop a feature.
> 
> > BTW: a use case doesn't say anything about required quality. It  
> > describes a sequence of interactions
> > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_case). Sorry, but I can't disclaim  
> > my academic history :)
> 
> i asked for use case because i am not just talking quality. i am talking a 
> case
> where vga makes something possible at all or not. where something just 
> wouldn't
> be usable or possible without vga. that is what i asked. i want a use case for
> vga. not just a "it looks a bit nicer".
> 
> > Nikolaus
> > 
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 
> 


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