Re: It Ain't funny [Was: Ain't it funny..]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Now you're just trying to confuse me... ;) ...I haven't received any reply to my off-list email yet... I presume you're looking into it? Steve Mosher wrote: > Best of all is to avoid hyperbolic claims of totalitarian behavior all > together, since the claim, if true, > will never see the light of pixels, and if false, is self refuting. > > That's my rhetorical observation for the day. > > > Dale Maggee wrote: > Shawn Rutledge wrote: > >>>> On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Dale Maggee >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Generally when I hear the word "nazi" used, it means "totalitarian", not >>>>> "monster" or "mass murderer" - think of the "soup nazi" in Seinfeld. >>>>> That's what I meant. Not the other. *At All*. Sorry. >>>>> >>>> That just goes to show the meaning has gotten diluted from overuse, >>>> doesn't it. >>>> >>>> > Absolutely, to the point that I wasn't even aware that there were other > meanings you could read into it, and that's why I felt like such a dick > once I had this pointed out to me. > > Like I said, I learned something, and as a consequence I'll need to find > myself a new metaphor for "totalitarian"... >> ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKCQfHFbVnQRV3OEYRAvv5AJsFqi5PydVOKBxMGxbJ8px/dzkmJwCgjFfG /gWKpl45b6ZnoZaNSnPuJRI= =ij30 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [All] .sid file properties
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, I've tried many times over many years to do this, and I've never managed to do so to my satisfaction. I did once (years ago) find a non-free (as in closed source _and_ cost $20) Sid to midi converter, but I never bought it and haven't been able to find it since My understanding is that sids don't actually contain any tracking info as such, they contain machine code for the sid chip - it's more accurate technically to say that sids and sid players are not so much a music format as an emulation format for a sound chip. But if you manage to find anything interesting, I'd appreciate hearing about it! Regards, - -Dale Cameron Frazier wrote: > After wading through the noise unsuccessfully on google, could anyone > point me towards some means of getting the track information from a > .sid file? > > Kind regards, > > Cameron 'Toaster`' Frazier > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKCGdZFbVnQRV3OEYRAuZbAJ4jYZIZA0PElNLvvop3z/CkY8LLRgCggXhX yTJ7Elr7gbcaSwp37I+yRkM= =pogN -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 For the Conspiracy Theorists out there: Steve and I are discussing this off-list. For everybody else: This list will now be free of my vitriol while Steve and I talk. Enjoy. Steve Mosher wrote: > Dale Maggee wrote: > Hi Steve, > > I appreciate your replying to this thread. > > I would however point out that I believe that you should have already > been aware of this issue before I raised it in this public mailing list: > I sent three emails to Openmoko asking about getting a refund, and > received no reply to any of them. I've pasted these emails below, after > the "---BEGIN EMAIL THREAD---" Line. You were cc'd in two of these > emails (the ones saying "I've had no reply"). I eventually got a > response from Tony Tu on the trac ticket, at which point I stopped > sending emails to you. > >> Dale, as you can well imagine since I receive mail every single time a >> FR is ordered, >> since I receive mail every time we get a request for a return, since I >> receive mail from >> the community list and the developer list and since I received mail >> from cont...@openmoko >> univers...@openmoko.. oh heck every public mail we have plus I have my >> email on every >> press release, you can well imagine that I might have forgotten your >> name. But I didn't. >> Two people handled the RMAs on product purchased from OM store. And >> with Tony on the >> job I just assumed it would handled. I've been informed that we dont >> have a record a record >> of you purchasing the phone from us. That probably explains why Tony >> could not process >> the return. > As I've indicated, I've already gone through the process of requesting a > refund for the device, and this was declined. I think you should be able > to find all the info you need at > https://support.openmoko.com/trac/ticket/36 > >> Yes. As I stated above we have no record of you purchaing the phone at >> our store: openmoko.com >> If you purchased it elsewhere please let me know. All of the guys here >> who have dealt with me will >> tell you that I'm a fair and reasonable person. > I think that if you want to discuss the refund issue with me, it may be > more appropriate to do so off-list, but I realise that I may have > created a public image issue for you here (given my usage of the words > "thieves" and "defrauded"), and that you may therefore want to keep this > public. If you're willing to work with me to resolve my grievances and > prove my assertions incorrect, then I'd be more than happy to come back > here and retract my previous statements once it's resolved :). That > might be more appropriate, rather than flooding the mailing list with > what will effectively be back-and-forth personal conversations between > you and me. but if you want to discuss it in this public place I have no > problem with that either - up to you. > >> Makes no difference to me. If I handled this privately I'm sure some >> lunatic down the road >> who slam me for taking it private and launch into yact, yet another >> conspiracy theory. >> You put your return request into the RMA process for the Openmoko >> store. For >> that process to work we have to be able to find you in the database. >> So, if you could >> verify that you did in fact purchase the phone from that store ( the sn >> and imei would >> help) Then I can do two things: >> 1. Figure out how the heck the system didnt capture your information >> 2. Process your return. > >> WRT your language. If I took offense, then I'd be a thief. ( that's a >> joke.. took a fence) >> Seriously, I'm no person to lecture people about having a colorful way >> of expressing >> anger. I'll just say that some weapons have more collateral damage then >> others. And >> sometimes you can frag yourself, intentionally or otherwise, if you >> don't get clear of the blast zone. > Since having my application for a refund declined, I had come to kind of > accept that I had "been screwed", and I have since bought another phone. > Since I did that, I've (in my less angry moments) come to see the FR as > a kind-of-cool little open-source device, as long as you don't want to > use it as a phone. I haven't really done anything much with it, because > so far I've been too angry to really even look at it, but I will admit > that it does have potential for something, even if it's not as a > reliable phone. > >> I'll ch
Re: It Ain't funny [Was: Ain't it funny..]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Shawn Rutledge wrote: > On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Dale Maggee wrote: >> Generally when I hear the word "nazi" used, it means "totalitarian", not >> "monster" or "mass murderer" - think of the "soup nazi" in Seinfeld. >> That's what I meant. Not the other. *At All*. Sorry. > > That just goes to show the meaning has gotten diluted from overuse, doesn't > it. > Absolutely, to the point that I wasn't even aware that there were other meanings you could read into it, and that's why I felt like such a dick once I had this pointed out to me. Like I said, I learned something, and as a consequence I'll need to find myself a new metaphor for "totalitarian"... -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBRyUFbVnQRV3OEYRAqlIAKCCPMZT4yqyPLA4nRz5lp+BJ+smtACdE/dy DgRCwUfSfUNgqz5EFt9o1mk= =eS2W -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Christoph Pulster wrote: > IMO most misunderstandings happen because marketing of the Freerunner > was focused on "mobile phone". So customers expect a mobile phone to use > as a mobile phone. However Freerunner is a multi-purpose developement > plattform with GSM functionality among many other functionalities. Exactly. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBHrGFbVnQRV3OEYRAu3WAJ44Rmh+zoBielVKEkBWkzgQEuZ2NwCdHfSg /zHYEEJ6KHRatvcK4q0EzbU= =J9CR -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Get your facts straight... > he doesn't use an fr No, I don't use one, but I own one. That's the whole problem: I had to buy another phone, just to have a phone. > and he does in no way contribute http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NeoTool > -- what do you call > someone who lurks on a list he is in no way affiliated to Dunno. But that doesn't describe me. > and posts repeatedly meanings consisting of only "your point of interest is > crap, > everything you are talking about is crap and if you don't share my point > of view you are idiots and nazis"? This is what Christoph is talking about with his scientology reference - my emails are saying things that are not favorable to OM, and you therefore dismiss them without even really reading them. My emails contain significant points which you have entirely failed to address. Instead you focus on my tone, call me a troll, and tell me to shut up and go away. To me it sounds like you're not interested in freedom of speech. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBHogFbVnQRV3OEYRAna3AJ0VQW4hncP6W31XJg7N+wDGOmIKlwCeOh+L wDixe2oUe1ALeokWfyzK85I= =KHzR -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Marcel wrote: > Am Freitag, 8. Mai 2009 14:43:16 schrieb Dale Maggee: >> arne anka wrote: >>>> Guten Tag, Sieg Heil. >>>> ... >>>> beautiful and intelligent people in the world, and your country >>>> reflects that... :) ) >>> wow. >>> insulting and slimy at once! >> I'd just like to say thanks for addressing the points I make in such a >> calm and rational manner. >> >> If you were capable of being rational, you would have realised that I >> was referencing a totalitarian state, not a race, and then clarifying >> that I am not attempting to insult a race of people and that it's >> unfortunate that using your particular language happens to be a very >> effective way to express that. I do genuinely feel an affinity to your >> people, culture, and country. >> >> If you think that my being honest is being "insulting and slimy", then >> whatever. I have already recieved one off-list email from a >> deutschlander who understood exactly what I was trying to say, so that >> indicates further to me that you're just being a fanboy and not >> thinking independently or even weighing my arguments - you see my >> posts, your mind closes, and you say "troll" like a reflex. And that's >> sad. >> >> If you would like to suggest a more appropriate way for me to have >> expressed what I wanted to, I would very much like to hear it. Note >> however that the sarcasm used in the greeting is important to my style, >> so any suggestion you might make would have to retain that. Also it >> would want to be short and effective. >> >> Alternatively, you're welcome to address the issues I'm raising. Or you >> could set up an email filter and consequently STFU. All are acceptable >> to me - I'm in favour of free speech. But true free speech requires >> rational dialogue, and I'm not seeing any rational dialogue from you. > > Dale, > > I'm sorry to contradict you (am I really?), but using Nazi slogans in such > an affair is completely inappropriate. You may like our country as much as > you want, still using this... deprecated language doesn't make me feel you > really know what you're referencing there. There are WAY better examples > for freedom of speech. This is no more rationale than you may think the > other's contributions to be. > > Yours sincerely, > > Marcel > Marcel, > I'm sorry to contradict you (am I really?) You shouldn't be. I was wrong, and said something inappropriate through ignorance. Contradicting me is perfectly fine when I'm wrong - I'll learn from it! :) > using this... deprecated language doesn't make me feel you > really know what you're referencing there. Exactly. I had no Idea. I had meant one thing, and completely failed to realise that I was also implying something far, far worse. Please accept my apologies. I would also ask you to read my response to Rui's message. Kind Regards, - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBF4MFbVnQRV3OEYRAqrSAKCaC51cep8DVrh+GdDndgnVbJHiIACgtXiD iUHCezfGlmimfbP70xMuMkM= =iyY7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
It Ain't funny [Was: Ain't it funny..]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: > On Fri, May 08, 2009 at 03:34:40PM +0200, Marcel wrote: >> I'm sorry to contradict you (am I really?), but using Nazi slogans in such > > I call for the rule of Godwin's Law! > > Rui > I had never heard of Godwin's Law until now! :O http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law I was sitting here puzzling over Marcel's comment, which I didn't understand: "using this... deprecated language doesn't make me feel you really know what you're referencing there." This had me confused - I knew exactly what I meant! "Totalitarian". I was trying to figure out what he was saying, and/or politely say "I don't understand what you mean"... then I read this: "I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler or to Nazis to think a bit harder about the Holocaust" and I said to myself: "Oh, shit..." I have been very ignorant, and now realise that I have said something very inappropriate. And I humbly and sincerely apologise for that. I feel pretty bad about this, especially the part where I couldn't figure out what Marcel was trying to say. Now I understand. and I feel like a complete dick. Sorry. Generally when I hear the word "nazi" used, it means "totalitarian", not "monster" or "mass murderer" - think of the "soup nazi" in Seinfeld. That's what I meant. Not the other. *At All*. Sorry. The wiki page also says: when an adversary uses an inappropriate Hitler or Nazi comparison, "you have only to say 'Godwin's Law' and a trapdoor falls open, plunging your rival into a pool of hungry crocodiles." Oh Noes, not crocodiles! The wiki page fails to mention any possible exclusion from this horrible fate for cases of extreme ignorance followed by sincere repentance... is there any such exclusion, or are the crocs already gnawing at my stupid ass? Seriously, please accept my apologies for this. I have learned something today. Thank you for enlightening me. - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBFn/FbVnQRV3OEYRAtZKAKCUMaK3h6/h3h+9ky/xHoObRg5RJQCcClmG uI+eJe3qxhgy3sHyt/L5JkU= =dl+v -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Steve, I appreciate your replying to this thread. I would however point out that I believe that you should have already been aware of this issue before I raised it in this public mailing list: I sent three emails to Openmoko asking about getting a refund, and received no reply to any of them. I've pasted these emails below, after the "---BEGIN EMAIL THREAD---" Line. You were cc'd in two of these emails (the ones saying "I've had no reply"). I eventually got a response from Tony Tu on the trac ticket, at which point I stopped sending emails to you. As I've indicated, I've already gone through the process of requesting a refund for the device, and this was declined. I think you should be able to find all the info you need at https://support.openmoko.com/trac/ticket/36 I think that if you want to discuss the refund issue with me, it may be more appropriate to do so off-list, but I realise that I may have created a public image issue for you here (given my usage of the words "thieves" and "defrauded"), and that you may therefore want to keep this public. If you're willing to work with me to resolve my grievances and prove my assertions incorrect, then I'd be more than happy to come back here and retract my previous statements once it's resolved :). That might be more appropriate, rather than flooding the mailing list with what will effectively be back-and-forth personal conversations between you and me. but if you want to discuss it in this public place I have no problem with that either - up to you. Since having my application for a refund declined, I had come to kind of accept that I had "been screwed", and I have since bought another phone. Since I did that, I've (in my less angry moments) come to see the FR as a kind-of-cool little open-source device, as long as you don't want to use it as a phone. I haven't really done anything much with it, because so far I've been too angry to really even look at it, but I will admit that it does have potential for something, even if it's not as a reliable phone. (That's my whole point, by the way: That it's not a usable phone, even after a year of waiting, and I bought it because I wanted a working open source phone, and I was told that the FR would meet that requirement). I would therefore perhaps be open to accepting a partial refund and keeping the device as a PDA-sized linux device (The AU Laws allow for that), even if I never use it. But I think that if this were to happen I would maybe not feel cheated anymore and could possibly once again enjoy participating constructively in the community. I Look forward to hearing from you. Regards, - -Dale - ---BEGIN EMAIL THREAD--- Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: FreeRunner]] Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:19:34 +1100 From: Dale Maggee To: cont...@openmoko.com, s...@openmoko.com, st...@openmoko.com Having received absolutely no response whatsoever after more than a week, even after opening a refund ticker in trac (#36), I resend my email once again... - Original Message Subject: [Fwd: FreeRunner] Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 10:25:12 +1100 From: Dale Maggee To: cont...@openmoko.com CC: s...@openmoko.com, mic...@openmoko.org, st...@openmoko.com Having received no response whatsoever to my previous email, I'll send it again, and add a few more addresses. Hopefully I'll get a reply this time. Please see below. Regards, - -Dale - Original Message Subject: FreeRunner Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 16:35:41 +1100 From: Dale Maggee To: cont...@openmoko.com Hi, Please advise what is the process for getting my money back for my Neo Freerunner. Before I purchased this device almost a year ago, I was told that it could reliably make and recieve phone calls, as per Steve's email below. This is not, nor has it ever been the case - The device has *never* reliably made or recieved phone calls, it's overall stability is completely sub-par, and the ASU software stack mentioned turned out to be even less reliable and also slower than the original 2007.2 software stack. I have listened to Openmoko's promises regarding solving the issues, and these promises have not been met, repeatedly. In addition to this, as far as I can see, Openmoko's emphasis does not appear to be on stability or being able to use the device reliably as a phone, you seem to be more interested in building new frameworks from the ground up than actually making the device do what I bought it to do. While I'll agree that FSO may *one day* provide a usefull framework, it is presently far away from this goal (*still* no PIM!). In addition, "a working phone that could be used as an everyday phone" has a suspend mode, will happily go for more than 4-6 hours without being attached to a battery charger, and will actually wake
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 arne anka wrote: > so, how is a globally true statement of "fit to be used as ..." > possible? > it might be true for _you_, but it isn't for _me_ -- so please, always be > aware that those statemants express only _your_ point of view, not an > objective truth. According to Australian Laws, the customer's point of view is what matters. That's me. Hence they're breaching Australian consumer protection Laws by refusing to refund my money. I invite you to read the following for a good explanation of the Australian Laws, if you'd like more specific info: http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/CA256902000FE154/Lookup/CAV_Publications_Business_Information/$file/A4%20Refund%20Law%20Brochure.pdf#xml=http://search.justice.vic.gov.au/isysquery/irl5ab6/3/hilite If you think that my bringing the truth out into the open, or that my attempting to stand up for my rights is "trolling", then I think that your opinions are very strange, given that the Open Source philosophy is really all about freedom, equality, and rights. I would once again Invite you to set up an email filter :) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBC6xFbVnQRV3OEYRAlatAJ4jR20i62eguCHDZC5gWHtxprr4bgCglOwM ST3e9Sh0BPNwtnxiLU7DmvM= =UDzH -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thank you very much for a rational contribution to this thread, Franky. Franky Van Liedekerke wrote: > On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 10:44 AM, arne anka wrote: > Bitter much? : ) nope. he's just a troll. >>> Before I bought My Neo, I was told by OM that it would work as a phone. >> dale, you told us all of this already -- at least ten times. >> you put up your freerunner for sale at ebay months ago. >> you don't write anything productive on this list. >> >> why don't you just shut up? >> unsubscribe from this list -- you don't use the fr, you don't contribute >> to either community or development. >> the only thing you do on this list is trolling. > > Hmmm ... I do contribute and I do use my freerunner (sometimes, mostly > for testing only). So I want to react for once as well: > > You see, in the end, Dale's not that wrong: a year after I bought the > phone, I would at least expect a stable simple phone (I couldn't care > less about the extras), but as a company, Openmoko didn't provide > this. Therefore community releases were born, but they shouldn't be > necessary, only additional (or as an alternative). In the freerunner > case, only the community provides software for the phone. > A year later, I have to admit, I sometimes think about selling my > phone as well. I'm still using my old phone as stable phone, simply > because I don't want to recharge each day or reboot my phone every now > and then because unsuspend fails again, or wsod, or risk having my > phone not waking up on incoming calls, etc ... > QtExtendedImproved is as close as it gets for me ... Koolu promised > many times a stable android release, but there also: no release, > months after original promise (I mean, really: low priority for the > "feature" 'entering your sim PIN' ???). > Sometimes people have to face the facts as well. I *love* opensource, > I don't even own a windows pc, look up my name in google if you want > proof. I've worked hard for this phone in the last months, but is it > really worth it? What will I do if the phone breaks? Dunno yet ... > Every project, even an open project, totally in the opensource hands, > can fail ... > > Franky > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBCp/FbVnQRV3OEYRAr2JAJ9Rkkm/6ojk5VkK7Gg7HtJYRfWFGgCfS9Hi GFo/0xu5j+bJEM/Mcuh9JLU= =eL2H -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 arne anka wrote: Bitter much? : ) >>> nope. he's just a troll. >>> >> Before I bought My Neo, I was told by OM that it would work as a phone. > > dale, you told us all of this already -- at least ten times. Sources? I don't think it has been ten. and I've certainly not said *all* this before. > you put up your freerunner for sale at ebay months ago. I don't remember ever saying that. I may have said that I was *thinking* about it. Again, please cite sources. > you don't write anything productive on this list. It's productive for people who might be thinking of buying a FR. > why don't you just shut up? Why don't you just set up an email filter? > unsubscribe from this list -- you don't use the fr, you don't contribute > to either community or development. > the only thing you do on this list is trolling. See my previous email - I've already addressed these assertions. come up with something new. > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBCn1FbVnQRV3OEYRAsf4AKCKRi/kEoB1qLv7LajMmWSl3KFphQCggCrp vCSUVbcKfznA2h0MuTUeQzo= =5YVO -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 arne anka wrote: >> Guten Tag, Sieg Heil. >> ... >> beautiful and intelligent people in the world, and your country reflects >> that... :) ) > > wow. > insulting and slimy at once! > I'd just like to say thanks for addressing the points I make in such a calm and rational manner. If you were capable of being rational, you would have realised that I was referencing a totalitarian state, not a race, and then clarifying that I am not attempting to insult a race of people and that it's unfortunate that using your particular language happens to be a very effective way to express that. I do genuinely feel an affinity to your people, culture, and country. If you think that my being honest is being "insulting and slimy", then whatever. I have already recieved one off-list email from a deutschlander who understood exactly what I was trying to say, so that indicates further to me that you're just being a fanboy and not thinking independently or even weighing my arguments - you see my posts, your mind closes, and you say "troll" like a reflex. And that's sad. If you would like to suggest a more appropriate way for me to have expressed what I wanted to, I would very much like to hear it. Note however that the sarcasm used in the greeting is important to my style, so any suggestion you might make would have to retain that. Also it would want to be short and effective. Alternatively, you're welcome to address the issues I'm raising. Or you could set up an email filter and consequently STFU. All are acceptable to me - I'm in favour of free speech. But true free speech requires rational dialogue, and I'm not seeing any rational dialogue from you. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBCjkFbVnQRV3OEYRAqcBAJ9ClvhkIToyaGGXApiNrfsWA8kotACdHsVA WsQyQnqXKZj/1XIbpVHSEQA= =PtQt -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Guten Tag, Sieg Heil. Seriously... You may not have heard of it, but There's a concept that's been around for a while called "Free speech"... you know, as opposed to "free beer". "Goebbels was in favour of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're really in favour of free speech, then you're in favour of freedom of speech for precisely for views you despise. Otherwise, you're not in favour of free speech." - Noam Chomsky I am contributing - contributing to Free Speech, and I'm doing my part to warn prospective customers against giving their money to thieves. If you're not in favour of free speech then I have two words for you: "Email filter". But I'm not going anywhere. (Note: I know there are quite a few deutschlanders on this list, and my use of your language is not intended in any way as a slight against your people or country. On the contrary, I think that you're among the most beautiful and intelligent people in the world, and your country reflects that... :) ) jeremy jozwik wrote: > seriously... go write the prime minister or something. if your not > going to contribute your just wasting everyone else's time > > On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Dale Maggee wrote: > arne anka wrote: >>>>> Bitter much? : ) >>>> nope. he's just a troll. >>>> > Before I bought My Neo, I was told by OM that it would work as a phone. > > Once I got it and said "WTF This doesn't work as a phone!" I was told by > OM that 2008.8 would. So I waited. > > It was worse than 2007.2. I was told that 2008.12 would be much better. > So I waited. > > Was there even any difference? Sure, the animations might have been a > bit smoother, or something, but it still didn't work as a phone. > > When I asked for my money back I was told that it had been too long > since I placed my order... despite the fact that the only reason I > waited so long was that I trusted OM when they said that I would > eventually get a working phone. > > > I contacted Consumer Affairs here in AU. They told me that OM were > legally bound by our laws (which include a clause giving me the right to > demand a refund if the item doesn't do what I was led to believe it > would do). They told me that according to the letter of the law, OM were > required to give me a refund. They also told me that since they're based > overseas, there's basically no way to enforce it. > > In short: OM Have Lied to me, then violated the consumer protection laws > they're bound to by selling a Neo to an Australian Citizen by refusing > to refund my money. That means that *OpenMoko Are THIEVES*. > > Anything I say about them is justified. IMO you can't be a troll if > you're in the right. And I am. I have been defrauded of $400. And so > have you. The only difference is that I'm not willing to sit around > pretending that being raped is all fun and games. > >> ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community >> > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKA4YGFbVnQRV3OEYRAk0JAKDEiDmdGUttRB9r++kN4fKL9zj6SQCgmDYR b1k8k42/YLwS2kBxx9dl778= =6xJM -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 arne anka wrote: >> Bitter much? : ) > > nope. he's just a troll. > Before I bought My Neo, I was told by OM that it would work as a phone. Once I got it and said "WTF This doesn't work as a phone!" I was told by OM that 2008.8 would. So I waited. It was worse than 2007.2. I was told that 2008.12 would be much better. So I waited. Was there even any difference? Sure, the animations might have been a bit smoother, or something, but it still didn't work as a phone. When I asked for my money back I was told that it had been too long since I placed my order... despite the fact that the only reason I waited so long was that I trusted OM when they said that I would eventually get a working phone. I contacted Consumer Affairs here in AU. They told me that OM were legally bound by our laws (which include a clause giving me the right to demand a refund if the item doesn't do what I was led to believe it would do). They told me that according to the letter of the law, OM were required to give me a refund. They also told me that since they're based overseas, there's basically no way to enforce it. In short: OM Have Lied to me, then violated the consumer protection laws they're bound to by selling a Neo to an Australian Citizen by refusing to refund my money. That means that *OpenMoko Are THIEVES*. Anything I say about them is justified. IMO you can't be a troll if you're in the right. And I am. I have been defrauded of $400. And so have you. The only difference is that I'm not willing to sit around pretending that being raped is all fun and games. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKA3cVFbVnQRV3OEYRArmhAJsHt3UILhaN/1Rjt30yL8+0jtOUPwCdHLMV gIMfLw0JvJV+o4sZQD9DYrY= =nJ+d -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hehe, what gave you that idea? ;) Yogiz wrote: > Bitter much? : ) > > On Wed, 06 May 2009 18:09:35 +1000 > Dale Maggee wrote: > > Risto H. Kurppa wrote: >>>> The community work seems to be slowing down now (because of the >>>> summer?) > My guess would be that a whole lot of people have realised that their > $400 Neo is better used as a boat anchor, and put them on ebay. or in > the microwave. > >>>> OM2009 testing 2 was released some days ago. So far ~3 e-mails on >>>> the list about it. >>>> New version of Mokomaze was released some days ago, too. Around 50 >>>> mails. To me this tells that people are more interested in Mokomaze >>>> than OM2009. > Agreed - more people are interested in mokomaze, because they know > what kind of godawful crap to expect from OM and are avoiding it like > swine flu... which is strangely poetic IMHO (the metaphor of "Neo as > Swine Flu", that is). > > I'm starting to think that OM's real goal has always been to *not* > produce a working distro, in the hopes that some genius would come > along and do it for them. At which point they could say "we don't > need to make it work, Guy X has given us the excellent Distro Y"... > > I mean, look at it from the company's perspective: They already have > your money, and they know that they're totally mismanaged and will die > out before producing another device. Also they're a dodgy Taiwanese > company which makes them very difficult to prosecute under the > consumer protection laws of less dodgy countries (even though they are > technically legally bound by those laws), so what's in it for them to > produce working software? > > >> ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKAfK5FbVnQRV3OEYRAjygAJ0UDxAbT6Z3s/szm7mUPVBbVLIFWgCcDk0c 4MNuXjjU5vX0HgUT4+1hD5M= =z4n9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Risto H. Kurppa wrote: > The community work seems to be slowing down now (because of the > summer?) My guess would be that a whole lot of people have realised that their $400 Neo is better used as a boat anchor, and put them on ebay. or in the microwave. > OM2009 testing 2 was released some days ago. So far ~3 e-mails on the > list about it. > New version of Mokomaze was released some days ago, too. Around 50 mails. > To me this tells that people are more interested in Mokomaze than OM2009. Agreed - more people are interested in mokomaze, because they know what kind of godawful crap to expect from OM and are avoiding it like swine flu... which is strangely poetic IMHO (the metaphor of "Neo as Swine Flu", that is). I'm starting to think that OM's real goal has always been to *not* produce a working distro, in the hopes that some genius would come along and do it for them. At which point they could say "we don't need to make it work, Guy X has given us the excellent Distro Y"... I mean, look at it from the company's perspective: They already have your money, and they know that they're totally mismanaged and will die out before producing another device. Also they're a dodgy Taiwanese company which makes them very difficult to prosecute under the consumer protection laws of less dodgy countries (even though they are technically legally bound by those laws), so what's in it for them to produce working software? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKAUW/FbVnQRV3OEYRAq9RAJ9rObFB6hKp2V149Nh77rZdtZD34gCfRDAd klJyMizgksoWzba1EEJ6MKU= =R3Vr -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko and LCD TV
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 ...An OM Device which doesn't comply with EMI Standards? :O hands up if you're suprised. Sam Kuper wrote: > 2009/5/5 Marcel > >> Am Dienstag, 5. Mai 2009 18:38:42 schrieb Mile Davidovic: >>> Yesterday I accidentally put my OM phone near LCD TV (Samsung). >>> >>> SW on OM is QT Extended and when I press power button (to wake up >>> mobile) TV immediately turn off. >>> >>> I tried again and TV changed channel. So, on my phone this behavioure >>> is repeatable. >> If the neo had an infrared led I'd have guessed it sends some random >> signal, but since it does not... Voodoo... °_° >> Seriously: Electromagnetic fields? GSM? I really have to try that with my >> TV... > > > There are various standards that define the kinds/amount of EMI that an > electrical device must: (1) be able to cope with, and/or (2) not produce in > excess of. > > It sounds like either your OM or your TV might not be fully compliant. > > Sam > > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKAUDuFbVnQRV3OEYRAlwIAJ41CxHJ6C2rPAtcQ4IjoS6k7UyCUQCgqnPg vihdyOM/k+yFp6s7PmyFTYE= =Wf+N -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: backing up rootfs fails - after 40m FreeRunner continues booting
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Joerg Reisenweber wrote: > > Huh, neotool avoids dfu-util? > less +"/dfu-util" `which NeoTool` > > /j > neotool's *rootfs backup* avoids dfu-util. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJ8ziWFbVnQRV3OEYRAr1hAJ9DeIsEqCQGHUpgKbKZG4TzT8aX+gCfSR7F drlCo8fKJI6jogLP6hlsON8= =qe7K -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: letter of recomendation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Adam Jimerson wrote: > On Thursday 23 April 2009 03:42:52 am Ali wrote: >> On Thu, 2009-04-23 at 10:29 +0300, Risto H. Kurppa wrote: >> ... >> >>> Hmm.. suppose this was not planned to be posted to community mailing >>> list..? >>> >>> r >> Did you stop to think that maybe this was a coded message for >> terrorists? Just sayin. >> > > No according to this > http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.12.2.42056.2147.html > they use Quake for that XD > *PLEASE* Tell me that article is a joke... Please? It's absolutely hilarious... *IF* it's a joke... if it's not a joke, it's absolutely terrifying... -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJ8O+tFbVnQRV3OEYRAuWiAJ43WMPfY3mWk32bVPF5NuXtECKKcgCfZuda Y63ePJjK+Rg2Kop1TnvmL08= =mP43 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko newbie questions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > I have a few questions on OpenMoko phones. I am planning to buy one. > 1. Which is the default OS that comes in OpenMoko: OM 2007 ? 2007.2 > 2. Do you use the default OS or have you flashed soe other OS of your own? Well, 2007.2, despite being the most stable thing Openmoko has delivered, is unsupported and quite buggy - seems that stability wasn't something that they were aiming for. So nobody uses it anymore. > 3. Which OS is known for booting faster than others. I use Debian on > my laptop and I would want to know how good Debian is for Freerunner? > Does it boot fast enough? Fast? Openmoko? I think you have this device confused with one that doesn't suck big fat hairy donkey balls. > 4. Is multi-touch in neo freerunner not availabe because the hardware > doesn't support it or is it because the software doesn't support it? The hardware doesn't support it. Or much of anything for that matter. > 5. In the OpenMoko Neo Freerunner order page I have two options relevant to > me. > > Now, I don't know which one I should be going for. I am from India > and we use GSM sim cards here. I use Vodafone SIM card. So which is > the one I should be buying? You should go for one that doesn't involve giving Openmoko your money. For example, I just bought a blackberry, and it's great! If you buy an Openmoko device, you're buying dead hardware with godawful software from a dishonest company. Avoid. Regards, - - A Happy User. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJ8O0wFbVnQRV3OEYRAterAJ9FvpauMcVRou1l3F4HU6GZzcsvZgCeIQpt aeA6YC9rZfrAoTNi8l/2Du4= =nRbx -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: backing up rootfs fails - after 40m FreeRunner continues booting
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, To backup your rootfs with NeoTool: * Make sure you have a working image on your Neo. By 'Working', I mean it should boot into the GUI, and networking should work - you should be able to ssh into your neo. NeoTool is supposed to be pretty much "idiot proof", so it should tell you if this isn't the case. * Boot your Neo all the way into the gui. (NeoTool's rootfs backup needs to use SSH, so your Neo should be completely booted, not at the boot menu) * Run NeoTool, choose backup, select 'Root Filesystem' when it prompts for what to backup, and choose 'Go!'. * you may be told that you don't have mkfs-jffs2 installed. If this happens, ssh into your neo and "opkg install mkfs-jffs2" * the backup will take a while (maybe 20-30mins?). If you chose the default backup method (jffs2), the file it produces will be flashable using dfu-util or NeoTool. HTH, - -Dale Bram Mertens wrote: > On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Cameron Frazier > wrote: >> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Bram Mertens >> wrote: >>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Cameron Frazier >>> wrote: On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Bram Mertens wrote: Have you tried using NeoTool [1]? It's always worked quite well for me, and the backing up process avoids dfu-util. [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NeoTool >>> I have tried to use it before when I initially went to pick up the >>> device but never succeeded, probably because we were using the wrong >>> files. >>> >>> And the instructions seemed clear enough to use the command line utility. >>> >>> The current problems/questions would have arisen with NeoTool anyway, >>> looks like I made a mistake when rebooting the device. >>> >>> So when you have flashed the U-Boot with NeoTool, how do you proceed? >>> Unplug it first, power down, then boot again or use the boot menu to >>> reboot? And did you boot the device normally or immediately into NOR >>> or NAND? >>> >>> The display still shows the openmoko logo, guess I'll have to hard >>> reset it though I hope that won't break anything... >> >> I've always just: >> >> - flashed >> - powered down, which the FR seems to do on it's own once u-boot times out >> - unplug the usb, as I've found that leaving it in will cause hangs >> similar to what your seeing >> (oddly I don't have this issue with the AC adapter) >> - turn on pre normal procedure (power button for 8-10 sec) >> >> I use NeoTool most times since I like the backup method (having had >> numerous problems with dfu-util backups) and it helps to ensure I'm >> not throwing improper commands when I flash. I have little faith in >> the user on my end. > > Thanks, > > I pulled the battery and booted into NOR, it still shows: > U-Boot 1.3.2-moko12 (May 09 2008 - 10:28:48) > select reboot from menu - FDOM boots. > Shut down device to NAND boot menu. > NAND boot menu shows: pr 19 2009 - > 19:10:05)520a22715fe7ff069b36b7dfdbb925a8e5a (A > > So it looks like NAND U-Boot was updated but NOR hasn't. However > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Backup#Backing-up_flash_images > specifically states that you need to be in NOR U-Boot before > flashing/backing up. > > After reading http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_NOR I get the > impression that flashing NOR is not really recommended compared to > flashing NAND. > > I'll try with NeoTool since even with the new U-Boot a backup fails > after 38minutes (while booted to NAND). > > Regards > > Bram > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJ7YWDFbVnQRV3OEYRAhkjAKCbv651TqaoSJ9Jzy0z8T+hG8azqwCeO/P7 2M1cwNT9rbkdSqn2JZ46xY0= =20rP -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I also note that Lorn's been completely silent for the past 24 hours. I wonder if this is because he's (finally!) realised that he's been digging a hole for himself, or if it's just because he got pwned once again... Or perhaps he took my advice (yeah, right!) and spoke to his boss about it, and his boss said "ARE YOU *INSANE*?!?!? HOW COULD YOU POST THAT FROM YOUR TROLLTECH ADDRESS?!?!?!?!" -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJwJeWFbVnQRV3OEYRAnd7AKChMds4wmfaBl9o1J3pBe+BOS5xfQCdGsF+ 7/VhnhkCcQS6BEi1ULF2kpY= =x3A1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 roguem...@roguewrt.org wrote: > Dale Maggee wrote: >> This discussion *is* actually leading somewhere, though: Lorn is >> digging a deeper and deeper hole for himself. > > And I'm amazed he hasn't just given up and said something like "OK, > you're right but I'm not going to do anything about it". > If not only for appearances! To debates someone's opinion, especially > when you _know_ their position is firm, is just ludicrous and even more > so when the case put forward is completely valid. Yeah, it's kinda scary. If Lorn had simply acknowledged the issue as valid, this debate would have been over at least 24 hours and 100,000 words ago. Instead, He's managed to initiate a flame war. But then, I don't know if he knows that my position is valid, really - I don't think he's actually reading my emails. If he was, surely by now he would have just run the experiment I asked and reported the times... surely that's easier than consistently ignoring a question I have directly asked five times now... but no. As far as I'm concerned there are two possible reasons for this: He's either not really reading my emails, or he's trying to provoke me. If he's out to provoke me, then mission accomplished. This is not something I would choose to do from my work email address, though. > Besides contributing to a conversation no company in their right mind > would approve of. Yeah. Sending that kind of crap from his company address, and signing it with a company signature is really scary - is he providing Trolltech / Nokia's official position with regards to this? he is their official representative on this mailing list... Coincidentally enough, minutes after I finished typing up my complaint to Nokia yesterday, I saw a slashdot article come up on my RSS reader: "Nokia to slash 1700 jobs"... > Speaking of which, you mustn't work for Hutchison ... or you would have > run into plenty of Lorns by now :). Nope. I don't usually run into these guys that often, perhaps they hear me coming and scatter like the cockroaches they are. When I do run into them, I tend to just bulldoze over them by demonstrating their incompetence. Which is what it boils down to, really - - Lorn is obviously incompetent to do the job he's doing, or pretending to do. People like these don't deserve employment, certainly not in a technical field. As far as I'm concerned, Lorn isn't even qualified to serve me burgers at McDonalds - you need to provide a public face for that too. - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJwCTCFbVnQRV3OEYRAu47AJ0VS+nuUqYcy1CJ+rb1uvhapXavfQCgrTgE cvWLYXY3HzhjGq78dFCCaag= =LRLl -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Well, personally, I'd recommend you do it by the email subject rather than sender - there's a chance I might say something useful to you in another conversation... ...Lorn won't, though, cuz he's a liar - filtering out by his email address is probably a wise move. Russell Steicke wrote: > On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 04:15:53PM +0900, Russell Steicke wrote: >> :0 >> * ^From: (Dale Maggee|Lorn Potter) >> |/dev/null > > Oops... > > :0 > * ^From: (Dale Maggee|Lorn Potter) > /dev/null > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJwCGMFbVnQRV3OEYRAiqFAKCRFVgxHxrWT9AUBObIw/dwCGhYSgCdG/tS owLgCWzX3rPJfB2qh4n9snA= =JoQT -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Franky, As I said to others, If you don't want to read it, filter out this thread. Personal insults are completely valid and infact necessary when someone provokes me by lying to me and/or being an idiot. Personal attacks are appropriate and warranted in a public forum in this case, because Lorn is trying to spread mistruth in said public forum, and refuses to even discuss the issues, hence he should be shouted out of it. Which is what I'll be doing from now on - any message sent by Lorn to this mailing list from now on will receive a reply indicating that Lorn is a liar and not to be trusted, with links to evidence of him lying. Interestingly enough, this isn't the first time Lorn has been called out for publicly lying: http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/07/lovely-respond-to-lorn-potter-of.html Feel free to start with some personal attacks of your own now... ;) Franky Van Liedekerke wrote: > sorry, but this is way over the top ... personal insults don't belong to a > public mailing list. Please stop this, Dale. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJwB9gFbVnQRV3OEYRAs3hAJ4uY1V97Tnpbsa4Krv9xf7W+af76wCfRKId haRfH8qsUi/F2KZVRdGxcTY= =/4v3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I'd suggest you filter out this conversation if you're not interested. This discussion *is* actually leading somewhere, though: Lorn is digging a deeper and deeper hole for himself. wim.delv...@adaptiveplanet.com wrote: > Dale, lorn ... please, go take a cold shower and a few deep breaths to cool > down. > > This discussion isn't leading anywhere ... > > W -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvxdmFbVnQRV3OEYRAu+uAKCmUHe6cNkv0VaH5VbFCwI0wg6jGwCgw7lY QkpWzFEFiwu2HxYZ7Fqk5BQ= =xWhZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lorn Potter wrote: > [snip utter nonsense] > > and you have just demonstrated your maturity level. Go home, your > parents want to wash your mouth out with soap. Haha, says he who repeatedly and persistently refuses to discuss the issues! Wow, now you can *really* add "hypocrite" to the ever expanding list on your resume! I mean, sending me a link to nettiquette rules that you broke first was pretty damn hypocritical, but two entirely hypocritical emails in one day! So now the list that goes something along the lines of: * Highly skilled at evasive responses with no real content * Able to blatantly lie with a straight face * Actions are Not influenced by morality or human decency * Stupid enough to contradict self in public * Complete Hypocrite. No, really, I'm gonna write up a couple of letters of recommendation for you: I'm gonna email the head of Microsoft's HR on your behalf, and I'll also email the Liberal Party - I hear they're looking for a new leader, and you're certainly slippery, evasive, and deceitful enough. I'll post them here for all to see. Hopefully you'll get your dream job as 'chief bullshit artist' at MS. Although I think you're probably over-qualified. "I see your lips moving, but all I can hear is 'bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit'..." For the record, I'm not going anywhere, and long after I've got my blackberry and kicked your godawful software to the curb where it belongs, I'll still be replying to your every post on this list with "Lorn is a bullshit artist, be wary of believing anything he says. Here's a link to him contradicting himself." "Utter nonsense", again, including questions which you persist in ignoring, and discussion of the issues with your shit software which you categorically refuse to discuss or even acknowledge exist. Given that you insist on ignoring the issues at hand: Wow, I have to give you credit - you certainly are good at completely ignoring damning evidence and not answering questions directly put to you multiple times. Ever considered a career in politics? You'd fit in really well there! How Long does it take to type your address on your freerunner, using the methods described...errr...five(?) emails ago? and now, how long does it take on your PC? How long did it take you to type up my sample sms on your FR running QTe? and why did you do that "Many Times", as you claim? seems like wasted effort to me... >> > > [snip useless drivel] This "useless drivel" Lorn refers to is me demonstrating that Lorn is either lying or a complete retard. The fact that he refuses to even acknowledge this and attempted to trim it from all further correspondence indicates to me that it's malice, not stupidity. I'll restore this in the vain hope that perhaps he might address it, rather than ignore it as he has consistently done all afternoon: >> > > No one said to use the little qwerty keyboard with fingers. I BEG YOUR PARDON?!?!? Lorn Potter wrote at 12:41pm: >> > >Then you can easily switch to the qwerty keyboard. Lorn Potter wrote at 12:41pm: >> > > You can even use this with big fingers and hit in between letters >> > > and it will still work (suggestively) well. Now, we were discussing the predictive keyboard, and you told me that I "could easily switch to the qwerty keyboard"... which qwerty keyboard were you referring to, exactly, if not the little qwerty keyboard? There are only two: the predictive keyboard and the qwerty keyboard. Unless you're trying to tell me that there's a difference between 'keyboard' and 'docked keyboard'. I call "bullshit". Lorn, you're either completely full of shit, or you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Due to the old adage "never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity", I'll give you an opportunity to publicly apologise and explain exactly what the hell you're on about... >> >> the way it works, because IT DOESN'T WORK THE WAY YOU'RE SAYING. >> > > >> > > It does. No, it doesn't. You're either a liar or a fucking retard. I lean towards "Liar". If you're a liar, you're *also* a fucking retard - when lying, the non-retard would come up with a *credible* lie, which you're not even bothering with... Or is it that you're just not clever enough? >> > > You have absolutely no idea which parts of Qtopia I worked on, so you >> > > cannot say I have done a bad job, when in fact, I had no contact with >> > > this code. I didn't say "Bad", I said "shit", which is worse than bad. and, Yeah, I can: Watch me: "You've done a shit job." Regardless of any contact you may or may not have had with the code, or your contributions or lack thereof to qtopia, you have done a shit job. Firstly, where's the QTe release that was coming in December? why such inadequate communication? You've done a shit Job. Secondly, you've done an absolutely abysmal job today. Refusing to acknowledge or add
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lorn Potter wrote: > Dale Maggee wrote: >> Aah, the fun continues... > > [snip utter nonsense] "Utter nonsense", again, including questions which you persist in ignoring, and discussion of the issues with your shit software which you categorically refuse to discuss or even acknowledge exist. > http://www.netalert.gov.au/advice/behaviour/netiquette_emoticons/What_is_netiquette.html > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette So... you can copy and paste a web address, good for you! I guess, it *is* more than I would have expected from someone of your "special-ness". Were the people at the spastic society proud of you for accomplishing that? did they give you a gold star? You *really are* a fucking retard, you know that, don't you? from the netalert website that YOU LINKED TO: Examples of netiquette include: * responding appropriately to requests Congratulations, Lorn, you complete fucking idiot, you fucking liar, you absolute wanker - You've just demonstrated, once again, for the entire world's verification, that you're the stupidest motherfucker on it. I can't believe you would link to a page which confirms that you broke "netiquette" first, and that any response telling you that you're a fucking liar, or a fucking wanker, or a fucking retard is entirely justified and warranted. Actually, I can believe it - why stop contradicting yourself just because you look like a retard? I have links, too! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deception http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot_(usage) Given that you insist on ignoring the issues at hand: Wow, I have to give you credit - you certainly are good at completely ignoring damning evidence and not answering questions directly put to you multiple times. Ever considered a career in politics? You'd fit in really well there! How Long does it take to type your address on your freerunner, using the methods described...errr...three(?) emails ago? and now, how long does it take on your PC? How long did it take you to type up my sample sms on your FR running QTe? and why did you do that "Many Times", as you claim? seems like wasted effort to me... > > [snip useless drivel] This "useless drivel" Lorn refers to is me demonstrating that Lorn is either lying or a complete retard. The fact that he refuses to even acknowledge this and attempted to trim it from all further correspondence indicates to me that it's malice, not stupidity. I'll restore this in the vain hope that perhaps he might address it, rather than ignore it as he has consistently done all afternoon: >> > > No one said to use the little qwerty keyboard with fingers. I BEG YOUR PARDON?!?!? Lorn Potter wrote at 12:41pm: >> > >Then you can easily switch to the qwerty keyboard. Lorn Potter wrote at 12:41pm: >> > > You can even use this with big fingers and hit in between letters >> > > and it will still work (suggestively) well. Now, we were discussing the predictive keyboard, and you told me that I "could easily switch to the qwerty keyboard"... which qwerty keyboard were you referring to, exactly, if not the little qwerty keyboard? There are only two: the predictive keyboard and the qwerty keyboard. Unless you're trying to tell me that there's a difference between 'keyboard' and 'docked keyboard'. I call "bullshit". Lorn, you're either completely full of shit, or you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Due to the old adage "never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity", I'll give you an opportunity to publicly apologise and explain exactly what the hell you're on about... >> >> the way it works, because IT DOESN'T WORK THE WAY YOU'RE SAYING. > > > > It does. No, it doesn't. You're either a liar or a fucking retard. I lean towards "Liar". If you're a liar, you're *also* a fucking retard - when lying, the non-retard would come up with a *credible* lie, which you're not even bothering with... Or is it that you're just not clever enough? > > You have absolutely no idea which parts of Qtopia I worked on, so you > > cannot say I have done a bad job, when in fact, I had no contact with > > this code. I didn't say "Bad", I said "shit", which is worse than bad. and, Yeah, I can: Watch me: "You've done a shit job." Regardless of any contact you may or may not have had with the code, or your contributions or lack thereof to qtopia, you have done a shit job. Firstly, where's the QTe release that was coming in December? why such i
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Johny Tenfinger wrote: > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 15:06, Dale Maggee wrote: >> Is this in SHR? If so, maybe it's worth trying out. > > Yes, it's standard Illume keyboard. SHR is using that ;) aah, excellent - that keyboard works quite well once you force it to always use the terminal keyboard, as Bill suggested earlier in this thread. Yup, 'Trying out SHR' just got added to my list of things to do. :) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvmTgFbVnQRV3OEYRAi9BAJ0RVOfmln5WEe+hFAGVqp7qU47tygCfYITm DiptnRhM8dEjSuk1OdvWWYc= =XFej -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Johny Tenfinger wrote: > FSO has had PIM (opimd) since milestone5 (but disabled by default). > SHR will use it in nearly future. O RLY?!? :D Awesome! So there's progress being made on that front at least, that's great to hear! SHR is sounding more and more like it's worth checking out! And the developers actually read emails in their entirety! ;) Any Idea how soon "near future" might be? (I know, it's probably hard to answer, but even a rough guess would be great... days? weeks? months?). Thanks for chipping in! This thread has now actually provided me with some useful info! :) - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvmRVFbVnQRV3OEYRAu4ZAJ9DvaLYSnMsBASDmr4Q7KW0dsctGQCghPnL D5gkXXBZPxY3MJVCQDUe7DI= =1jKr -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Johny Tenfinger wrote: > I don't know what would you say, if I'll tell you that I'm programming > on FreeRunner using qwerty keyboard and only with finger (for instance > in train - PM module in shr-settings is from train and was written > only with finger) ;) > Is this in SHR? If so, maybe it's worth trying out. Programming on FR with finger only = Impressive! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvlz4FbVnQRV3OEYRAtz2AJ9ClmBTMHS6IkwCzAKCKad7G+6Z4gCeIWFk CLZcl3BAf0bI0fw6O3b2mx4= =OSNs -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Aah, the fun continues... > because just perhaps I have an insight in how one is supposed to > actually be using it. I think it's pretty clear at this point that the word "insight" is completely foreign to you. Wow, I have to give you credit - you certainly are good at completely ignoring damning evidence and not answering questions directly put to you multiple times. Ever considered a career in politics? You'd fit in really well there! How Long does it take to type your address on your freerunner, using the methods described...errr...three(?) emails ago? and now, how long does it take on your PC? How long did it take you to type up my sample sms on your FR running QTe? and why did you do that "Many Times", as you claim? seems like wasted effort to me... > The list of input methods was actually depreciated. What you are > seeing is that someone didn't have the time or inspiration to remove > that from the neo's theme. Translation from asshat to english: "The software is shit. We couldn't be bothered doing it properly, and our test plans and use cases, which we value more highly than actual real-world scenarios, are a joke. Oh, and I'm still going to ignore all your concerns and refuse to answer the questions you've posed." > correction: _you_ don't care what the software was designed to do. Again, you demonstrate your ignorance in a shining example of your inadequacy as a both a human being and a software developer. It's pretty obvious from this statement that you've never even bothered to speak with an end-user. Your "correction" is fundamentally flawed and incorrect, and my original statement remains valid. > No, I didn't say that. You really are a shifty motherfucker, I'll give you that. I just absolutely love the "oh, that's not what I said", without any explanation of what you actually *did* say, or addressing the concerns I raised. Brilliant. It's getting to be a recurring theme, though, what with you contradicting yourself in your previous email via the same mechanism. Maybe next time you should try something different, like... oh, I don't know... maybe... being honest? Addressing the issues I've raised? I know that's not "your style", but maybe you could try it, just for something completely different? > I can't believe you failed to read the help for the input method. > Actually I can. > In fact, I can even edit those misspellings, but I will leave that as > an endeavor for the reader. So basically what you're saying is that an intuitive interface is optional, not really desirable because you know how to use it, and really just too much effort... > [snip useless drivel] This "useless drivel" Lorn refers to is me demonstrating that Lorn is either lying or a complete retard. The fact that he refuses to even acknowledge this and attempted to trim it from all further correspondence indicates to me that it's malice, not stupidity. I'll restore this in the vain hope that perhaps he might address it, rather than ignore it as he has consistently done all afternoon: > > No one said to use the little qwerty keyboard with fingers. I BEG YOUR PARDON?!?!? Lorn Potter wrote at 12:41pm: > >Then you can easily switch to the qwerty keyboard. Lorn Potter wrote at 12:41pm: > > You can even use this with big fingers and hit in between letters > > and it will still work (suggestively) well. Now, we were discussing the predictive keyboard, and you told me that I "could easily switch to the qwerty keyboard"... which qwerty keyboard were you referring to, exactly, if not the little qwerty keyboard? There are only two: the predictive keyboard and the qwerty keyboard. Unless you're trying to tell me that there's a difference between 'keyboard' and 'docked keyboard'. I call "bullshit". Lorn, you're either completely full of shit, or you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Due to the old adage "never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity", I'll give you an opportunity to publicly apologise and explain exactly what the hell you're on about... >> the way it works, because IT DOESN'T WORK THE WAY YOU'RE SAYING. > > It does. No, it doesn't. You're either a liar or a fucking retard. I lean towards "Liar". If you're a liar, you're *also* a fucking retard - when lying, the non-retard would come up with a *credible* lie, which you're not even bothering with... Or is it that you're just not clever enough? > You have absolutely no idea which parts of Qtopia I worked on, so you > cannot say I have done a bad job, when in fact, I had no contact with > this code. I didn't say "Bad", I said "shit", which is worse than bad. and, Yeah, I can: Watch me: "You've done a shit job." Regardless of any contact you may or may not have had with the code, or your contributions or lack thereof to qtopia, you have done a shit job. Firstly, where's the QTe release that was coming in December? why such inadequate communication
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lorn Potter wrote: "Nah, I'm not concerned with symantics, I'm all about software development. If it appears that in every single email I've sent this afternoon, I have dealt entirely with grammar, spelling, and choice of words, you're actually imagining it. Yep, that's the result of you hallucinating - I was actually talking software the whole time, and went over some really full-on technical issues. It was a productive afternoon. Anyone accusing me of focusing on the trivialities of the english language while somebody was attempting to engage me in a discussion of the software's shortcomings was also hallucinating. I'm not being evasive, I promise! Would I lie to you (more than 5 times in a single conversation)?" -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvlJXFbVnQRV3OEYRAusqAJoCqx++MQdey7zeUfwai4lElQxB2ACeMALC WCFFWd/Izuw67RcMrQSfjvM= =W/P+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sarton, A *big* "Thank You" to you for actually bothering to take the time to read my emails in their entirety! > I too don't understand why some devs aren't willing to take a completely > presented and well constructed criticism, and admit that more could be done > (or redone). I don't think that anyone who has replied has understood that > prior to the use of colourful language, there was no acceptance of your > criticism or your opinion. Luckily, this is more a qte thing within the > OM world. All others have at least attempted to accomodate more useful > features, or ways of implementing additional features. > > In some ways I'm tempted to think there was or is intent there. But > that would be their prerogative I suppose, which then comes back to > what is actually disclosed. Yeah, it's very strange. In my opinion, there's only really one explanation: Incompetence. Not necessarily incompetence in software development, more a general failure at a human level. To be able to do that, you'd have to not really care about the software you've written. Personally, I want the guys who wrote all the software I use to put in the same kind of dedication as I do into my projects - when a user comes to me with really weird requirements, I see it as a challenge! I immediately say to myself "How can I accommodate that". This mentality of "that's not a problem" is ridiculous and as far as I'm concerned harmful. I've dealt with people who take the "that's not a problem" approach before, and I've seen their contracts come and go (and they *do* come and go - invariably they piss off their clients, and their contracts don't get renewed), and then I often get to redesign their projects with some sanity and care, and they work much better, and everyone is happy. Yeah, it actually occurred to me today to me that Trolltech seem to be doing their very best to get me to buy a Nokia... Strange, that... ;) A couple of days ago I was actually thinking Nokia. Now, I'll be getting a blackberry after today's little debacle, just in case. In fact, I might just point that out to somebody at Nokia's PR department: "Congratulations: an employee of one of your subsiduaries has just ensured that I will never purchase another Nokia, and that I'll tell all my friends to steer clear of Nokia products from now on." > Hah! you are my father! hehe ...besides him owning every incantation, > I think it's actually a telco thing, they like their blackberries. hahaha... and you know what? I work at a telco... but I don't remember ever having kids! I deny everything! ;) > I would buy a blackberry but: > 1). I couldn't tell my dad ever! > 2). I'm a gamer and love my toys. > > Actually, 3). I can't help spending money on things that might do more > than they are suppose to :) > > Some things turn out to do less, or other tasks entirely! ;) hehe, well in that case, I guess an iphone is probably your best bet. My major issue with the iphone is their app store crap, and then there's the non-removable battery. Plus it's Apple. I'm not really into mobile gaming (I play my games on a 2.5m Projector screen!), so that's not an issue for me. although right now I'd choose Apple over Nokia! > If nothing, I've been having a good ol' chuckle, prolly cause my phone > is dead, but it is good to see a passionate aussie on an open source > maillinglist :) Well I'm glad that *somebody* is reading my mails and actually getting them - facts, humor, vicious stabs, and all... Cheers, - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvjyvFbVnQRV3OEYRAm4OAKCNI3czWr2u/KWaGI0VeuqqdSNlMQCgvx+8 e6dizZ+bWxnhTMt9Wsmf+Rc= =3H6k -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > How can we when you just rant on and on and on? It's easy: What you do is read the emails, and then address the concerns I raised. Things you shouldn't do include: Contradicting yourself, telling me about the virtues of features that don't work, and playing word-games with semantics while avoiding the actual issues. > What I told you was a way to work with the software, as it is. You > could have found that out yourself, it you would have read the help to > see how it works. It is not that complicated, but you must know how it > works to use it correctly. Like driving a car. Um, no. What you have told me is a) nothing I didn't already know b) inadequate to address the concerns I raised. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvjXdFbVnQRV3OEYRAjdwAJ9o6N49KUcH/x8sOMMIMsLXSMDPQwCbB6sL Zy6ko1OMupZCqNhBpEvaezQ= =u0x8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Radek, I'm just going to address this in quick dot points: > you must have a problem not related to Qt Extended at all. My issue *is* with QT Extended. You suggesting that it is otherwise indicates that you haven't read my emails properly / thoroughly. I'd suggest you do that. > Do you think someone is interested in your long and offensive mails * I'm not interested in whether people want to read my opinion of the software, or whether people take offense at it. What I am interested in is expressing my concerns including a description of the issues I'm seeing using the software. What I am *more* interested in is the developer trying to tell me that my problems are not actually problems, trying to pretend like his software is infallible and/or it's me at fault, when it is clearly and demonstrably the software which is at issue. > that have nearly zero information? * My emails contain quite a lot of information, much of it highly detailed. I'd suggest you read through them in their entirety with detachment, rather than allowing their tone to feed your emotions and provoke a kneejerk reaction. > Don't you like the keyboard? Send a patch. * Already addressed in my previous emails, try actually reading them to find out what I said about this. > If you have idea - write it down as short as it can be. Yep, I did that, and Lorn proceeded to tell me that this "was not a valid use case". Which is utter bullshit. > If the idea's good someone will pick it up. At least two people have replied agreeing with the issue, but not the developer of the software. If you'd read my emails properly you'd most likely also agree. > Otherwise please stop spamming this list with this offensive nonsence. 1. I'll stop when Lorn acknowledges that his software is not perfect, and apologises to me for effectively trying to tell me that the issues I and others have with the software do not matter, or are imaginary. 2. Re-read my emails, they contain no "nonsence", and neither do they contain any nonsense. I'd suggest you actually read them as a thread, and you'll find that I have legitimate concerns, which Lorn refuses to acknowledge. 3. If you have a problem with this thread, filter it out. I'd suggest actually reading it in entirety before you do so, though. 4. Please feel free to participate constructively to this thread ONCE YOU HAVE ACTUALLY READ MY EMAILS. Regards, - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJviKOFbVnQRV3OEYRAiVtAKCvg8WW/Wg+yXX2I9ewtZ4redtDQQCdGfUa usbvnWT0N69yGXU0moQSBVw= =w82z -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Franky, This is not about agreeing or disagreeing, this is about Lorn's refusal to acknowledge that there are issues with his software. All he has to do is a) acknowledge that there are issues b) address the concerns I have raised, rather than commenting that my use of the word "use-case" does not fit his definition and c) stop the lying / idiocy he's currently demonstrating. You'll note that at no point have I ever said that QT Extended isn't the best software currently available for the FreeRunner - I will happily, clearly, and unequivacobly state that QT Extended *is* the best software currently available for the freerunner. However that doesn't mean it isn't shit. Personal attacks are merited, warranted, and infact neccessary when somebody starts lying and/or being monumentally stupid, which is exactly what Lorn has done today. Yes, Lorn was one of the major developers of QT Extended, and credit should be given where it's due: Lorn, as one of the major developers of what is currently the best piece of software available for the FreeRunner, I'd like to take this opportunity to say that you have written a buggy piece of shit. Congrats on that. - -Dale Franky Van Liedekerke wrote: > To Dale (and in a lesser extent to Lorn): > > let's agree to disagree, shall we? Some like the predictive keyboard, some > don't. There should be an easy way to disable the predictive part, for those > that don't like it (or indeed the word you typed should always be the first > suggested). > But that aside: stop ranting please. I agree with you, Dale, that the > keyboard needs work (well, it was my mail that started this all) but I also > agree with Lorn that qtopia (the former name for qtextended) is by far the > best distribution for the openmoko for now (no other even comes close to a > pim, and qtextended imported all my contacts just nicely, with picture > even). > qtextended needs work, the keyboard needs work (in my opinion), etc ... we > all now it :-) Personal attacks should be left aside here, Lorn was one of > the major developpers of qtextended, and give credit where credit is due ... > > Franky > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Dale Maggee wrote: > >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Lorn Potter wrote: >>> Quite actually, I was using the predictive keyboard long before anyone >>> on this list was, so yes, I have done this. Many times. > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvhJ3FbVnQRV3OEYRAn6FAKC1zLbAEs9rEcMTl8CJkol7fZDpgQCfQ8aF z9O4xrhu66kJCKnJwDHvRfA= =w4rD -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dale Maggee wrote: (Alot, handing Lorn his ass on a silver platter, with dill leaves for garnish and Lorn's choice of Chips with salad or vegetables on the side, Pwning him back to whatever hole he crawled from after 3 months of complete silence followed by an afternoon of complete bullshit). I Forgot one thing in my previous email: PREDICTION: Lorn won't reply cuz I pwned him so hard he has to go to perth to look for his dignity. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvhAEFbVnQRV3OEYRAu3sAJ0Td2avFYHnfD3M8W2q9whoGHwmwQCgv4zM olwNzOGIciOxPzwV8ndNf5Q= =P/PA -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 roguem...@roguewrt.org wrote: > Dale Maggee wrote: > <_insert previous email here_> > > With optimism, I have to say qte is rather polished and shows what > potential can be gleamed from the FR in certain areas. > > Optimism aside, I have to agree with Dale on pretty much every point. > Although 2008.x is actually quite usable at the moment, comparatively. > > Lorn, Dale did get personal towards the end but I agree with him in that > any rational person would admit or agree that improvements need to be > made. Ignoring, sidestepping and belittling his opinion is only going to > cause frustration. If you think he is wrong, it takes a simple email to > ask the people and gain a consensus. > > Meanwhile, my FR is currently water logged from a surprise downpour (yay > for Melbourne, if we're not burning we're drowning). I doubt it will > boot again, it been drying for a day, I'll leave it for a week and see > what happens. If it fails to boot, I'm buying an iphone. > > I've never ever owned anything apple so don't start ;) I used to play > logo on a IIe though :) > > Looking at the bluish corrosion on the battery terminals ... err ... > yeah, I think it's gone. It was an abysmal phone but I still feel like > I've lost a sheep from the flock or a gnu from the hurd :) > > The Australian component is diminishing quickly :( > > Sarton > Thanks for your support. It is clearly completely unacceptable to sidestep the issues and focus on semantics. burying your head in the sand doesn't make problems go away. That's bad news on the FR, although personally I wouldn't be too upset - you'll now be able to get a real, usable phone. And Personally I'd recommend blackberry's products over an iphone. > If you think he is wrong, it takes a simple email to > ask the people and gain a consensus. Exactly. but we all know this isn't going to happen - how idiotic would you feel when the public survey agrees 98% to 2% that your input methods are absolute shit, especially after you've spent an afternoon defending your retarded position? Cheers, - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvg2MFbVnQRV3OEYRAqbhAKCFxu1o0wcqNe5xz8gRk++pQ/AwEACdHmwk AozxpcayY23DSXhpwYBBaLs= =Hxju -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lorn Potter wrote: > Quite actually, I was using the predictive keyboard long before anyone > on this list was, so yes, I have done this. Many times. "Quite actually"??? Quite what? work on your english. So you've done it, many times... awesome... I note however that you didn't actually answer my question: How Long does it take? and now, how long does it take on your PC? How long did it take you to type up my sample sms on your FR running QTe? and why did you do that "Many Times", as you claim? seems like wasted effort to me... Also, if you'd like to explain why I should CARE IN THE SLIGHTEST that you were using it long before anyone else, I'd love to hear it. > umm, yes. I can access the menu just fine with my finger. > Options -> Change Input Method. ok, fair enough, so you can do it in 2 clicks, which cycles input methods. Neat! Unfortunately, however, as is your usual, you've not really answered my question: I was interested in bringing up the list of input methods, not cycling through them. It should be 2 clicks to change from predictive to qwerty, and 2 to go back. You're advocating 2 clicks to get to the qwerty keyboard, and 7 clicks to get back. How efficient. > A use case is usually something that is very often used and repeatable > for any user. Typing 'antidisestablishmentarianism' is hardly typical. So, you're going to squibble over semantics, rather than actually discussing the issues at hand? right. Sure sounds like you're interested in quality. In all the work I've ever done, I'd consider a worst-case-scenario to be a use case, and very worthy of concern. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't agree with that assessment, then that's a good explanation as to why your software is shit. > No, but he will need to add those words to the common dictionary before > they will show up in the list of words. To enter a word in the > dictionary - simply press and hold the letters method. Are you saying that any word I type which isn't in the dictionary is automatically added? if this is the case then why is the word 'wot', which I use *all the time*, not in my dictionary? Where is 'antidisestablishmentarianism', which I typed earlier today? > There are too many niche scenarios to target, so we targeted common, > most used ones. ...and when someone brings up one you didn't target? Ignore it? stick your head in the sand? tell them that they're imagining it? This is a really great way to write shit software. News flash: Users don't care what your software is designed to do, or what use cases you have designed it to meet, they're interested in what it ACTUALLY DOES and whether it FITS THEIR REQUIREMENTS. This 'uncommon' scenario which you'd like to ignore is a valid, real-world scenario, and worthy of your attention if you're actually serious about writing decent software. If you're not interested in writing decent software, then fine, but you should at least stop pretending it's useful for anybody other than you if you're not interested in other people's "scenarios" (I'll refrain from using the term "use-case" because I'd hate for you to confuse it with something you care about). > No, it was not a suggested word, as it was longer than any suggestions > it could find, so it just took the letters I was typing in. So... you've completely ignored the entire point of my example, and have not addressed the concerns I raise at all. > I did. its not in the dictionary. see my statement above. So... you now have a *misspelled* word in your sms editor? and you not only typed it out, but then corrected that to a properly spelled 'antidisestablishmentarianism', all in under 10 seconds? Obviously this is not what you are claiming... What I'd suggest you do is try actually reading my previous email, following my example steps, and making an informed comment regarding my concerns. As opposed to completely ignoring them and focusing on semantics, which is all you've really done in this email. > Once you do that, your missEnglish word will be in the dictionary, or it > should be. Then it will find it and you won't have to tap the whole word > ever again. Thus saving you hours of tapping time if you would have used > even a desktop keyboard. Right, so you *are* saying that anything I type is added automatically... So, you're telling me that if I accidentally misspell 'antidisestablishmentarianism', the misspelling will be added to the dictionary, and from now on it will *only* suggest the misspelt version, meaning that next time I am *forced* to type it letter-by-letter. wow, how awesome! I think, however, that you're really just digging a big fucking hole for yourself, because 'antidisestablishmentarianism' is *NOT* in my dictionary, and neither are any of the intentional mis-spellings I've typed today (or, in fact, ever, as far as I can see). If I were you, I'd steer clear of espousing the virtues of FEATURES THAT DO NOT WORK - i
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lorn Potter wrote: >> Sounds even worse than shr/2008x/FSO then - why oh why cant some of the >> time spent on keyboards for any OM version be put into something that >> works. > > Well, obviously that is only his one opinion. > Actually, these are facts. > actually, Qtopia is by far the best and most usable phone software for > the Neo. Notice the phrasing: he said "qtopia", not "QT Extended". There were a whole lot of bugs introduced in 4.4.2. Clever misdirection there. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvfK+FbVnQRV3OEYRAuOHAJwOAaM3XG0K8MmQ73tI1rAeIU/6GQCbBFGz 7+cXf1Nchq90xO7Ew8ggomk= =WkVu -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 W.Kenworthy wrote: > Sounds even worse than shr/2008x/FSO then - why oh why cant some of the > time spent on keyboards for any OM version be put into something that > works. Oh, it's ass-and-a-half-of-full-cream-dairy-milk... ;) Yeah, I can't fathom how something so simple could be fucked up so completely, repeatedly... makes you wonder what the hell is going on in less-visible areas, Although given the travesty that is 2008.x, nothing would suprise me really. > > Never been able to run qt - always tried it on the SD card, which in > hindsight, needed a slow clock. Wasn't game to flash it as I needed a > phone and if it didnt work on SD ... I've never tried it on the SD card, only flashed it. Works *okay* most of the time. All the software in 2008.x is simply the QTe software hacked to run on X, basically what you get with QTe is kind of like a version of 2008.x which isn't a total abomination - it's actually somewhat responsive - pressing 'answer' actually answers the call, rather than initiating a 10 second "preparing to think about acting on your keypress" period. With QTe, at Idle, your CPU usage isn't sitting at 20%! :O Think of 2008.x as the bastard, horribly mutated and deformed offspring of QT Extended and some deranged genetic scientist. It also has it's bugs though: * you need to reboot at least once a day or it'll just stop working, period. (A call will come in, and you'll press 'answer' 300 times, and nothing will happen. Eventually you'll just pull the battery and call whoever was trying to call you). * Also, as mentioned, typing an SMS (especially a long one) is a bit of a joke, particularly if you're in a car / on a train - it takes so long to type anything that you may as well just get yourself some carrier pigeons. * Often when you receive a call, it will come in twice, resulting in a missed call from the same number at the same time. * Whenever you answer a call, it will automagically (and very helpfully) switch itself into speakerphone mode, which usually results in a wonderful burst of ear-splitting feedback. This makes for an excellent conversation point, and serves to liven up your day: *RING* *RING* *SCRCH* me: "Hang on a second" (Switches to handset mode) me: "Hello?" caller: "Hello? Dale?" me: "Yeah" caller: "What the hell was that?!?" me: "Oh, just my phone, it's a piece of junk." caller: "Man, your phone really really sucks ass. I can't believe you actually paid money for it. And I can't believe it *still* doesn't work! you can usually fix anything! Linux must be really shit." me: "Actually, linux is good, it's just OpenMoko that sucks ass. But with the evidence you're seeing/hearing, I can't really argue it, can I?" caller: "Nope. There's no way you'll get me using linux after seeing your phone in action." * Also, most/all messages in your inbox will be duplicated whenever you recieve a new SMS, meaning that your inbox will fill up very quickly if you don't delete your sms messages religiously. Moving these messages to trash and emptying trash may or may not delete them from the inbox, depending on the current weather conditions. This is obviously some super-duper kind of backup mechanism, intended to stop me from accidentally deleting SMS messages which I don't want anymore. > I am finding shr much more usable than the others at the moment - but > even it does have its "quirks" if you want to use it everyday. I haven't tried SHR yet, can't be bothered with the bullshit involved with backing up your phone, importing contacts, etc. Plus IIUC SHR is based on FSO, which still doesn't have any PIM except for contacts stored on the sim, and for me PIM is important. I was very impressed with the last FSO I flashed, but PIM is the dealbreaker for me there - I'm hanging out for FSO to have PIM integrated, then I might actually have a phone. (Well, actually, I'm not hanging out for it - I'm getting my money back on this godawful abortion of a thing and buying a blackberry) - -D -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvfFzFbVnQRV3OEYRAucnAJ9c6Cl3OTtQa704ePyiPhd/glLrqACfQ2eD kvYhHAQ6ikLHqH/uJP890BE= =Rrf9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 W.Kenworthy wrote: > > Disable it - find the keyboard files and copy terminal.kbd over the top > of default and numbers. No dictionary, and terminal pops up nicely > instead of those brain dead ones - you wont miss them, I dont. > Thanks for the suggestion Bill, but we're actually talking about QT Extended, not 2008.X - we don't have those keyboards you're talking about. FYI, QTe has: * A (totally, utterly, completely useless) handwriting recognition method. * A (almost completely useless, unless you happen to have a needle, 10 minutes, and are completely still - keys are so tiny I struggle with a stylus) full qwerty terminal keyboard. * A (not quite completely useless, but working towards it, as per our discussion) 'predictive' keyboard, which the 2008.X one was obviously based on at some point. So, in QTe your input choices are SSH, complete shit, utter shit, or just shit. It's kinda like having to choose between death by disemboweling or death by dismemberment. - -D -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvd/LFbVnQRV3OEYRAoUWAJ9E0Y9M57YP1FDFjjBnUOmONVQ8HQCeJkMw Uwe9YPuzAnXDk2XovTkDzhE= =I+pE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lorn Potter wrote: > Typing numbers are not 'suggested'. Fine, be fastidious if you must, You know what I meant. How long did it take you to type your postal address? Now, how long does it take on your PC? Oh... you didn't test it? You didn't bother typing out the sample SMS in my email? Hmmm, Interesting... > I personally do not find the delay all that troublesome. Well, that indicates to me that you're either not using it for everyday use, or that you happen to be a lucky person who's typing dictionary words, or, more likely, that as the developer all the words you use commonly happen to be in the dictionary already (strange, that...) > As I said, if you can easily switch to the qwerty keyboard. bwahahaha, that's a funny joke. Have you ever tried actually switching to the qwerty keyboard using just your finger? for me, it usually takes at least 3-4 attempts just to bring up the list of input methods. Then there's actually attempting to type on the qwerty keyboard, which we'll get into later... > This is not a very valid usecase. How many times are you going to type > this into your phone in a real world situation? You're incorrect - it's a completely valid, worst-case scenario which serves very well to illustrate the inadequacy of the 'typing one letter at a time' method which you are advocating. In real-world usage, I'll concede that 'antidisestablishmentarianism' isn't used often, but long words which aren't in the dictionary are not at all uncommon, especially given long words combined with sms-speak spelling. How would you suggest a biologist or chemist use this input method to talk about his work? If you're trying to tell me that the biologist needs to put a "biologist's dictionary" on his phone before he can use it, I'll laugh my ass off, and I'll tell you exactly how utterly ludicrous that Idea really is. As a software developer, I'm *very* interested in worst-case scenarios, as they work very well to find all these little inefficiencies - if I can make my software usable in a worst case scenario, it's going to be absolutely brilliant for average, everyday use. I test (and sometimes write) all my software on low-powered machines for this reason If you're not interested in actually making your software robust and useful, maybe you should apply for a job at Microsoft. > For a fact, though, this took me exactly as much time to tap it out, > without having to use the press down method ~10 seconds. Care to clarify on that? to me, this statement makes no sense. If you're saying that you just typed in 'antidisestablishmentarianism' and it was suggested and you were able to choose it because it had no idea what you were typing and showed you what you typed, then you're doing it wrong, and your test is invalid. For it to be a valid test, you need to do the following: 1. *quickly* Type 'antidisestablishmentarianism', as if you're expecting it to be in the dictionary. (Type quickly, and ignore precision, assuming the dictionary will still suggest the correct word even if you accidentally hit a couple of letters wrong). (i.e: If I'm typing 'owned' in an SMS, I don't concern myself if I actually accidentally type "pwned", because I know the dictionary will pick up on my mistake and suggest "owned". For your test to be valid, you need to type 'antidisestablishmentarianism' as if you're expecting it to be in the dictionary - i.e quickly and without precision) 2. Since you typed quickly and without precision, you'll now have something like "antidiseatablishmentaroanusm" (note that my spelling wasn't precise, and I now have an incorrectly spelled word being "suggested". 3. A this point, If I swipe my finger to the left (i.e: backspace) to correct the spelling mistakes, the entire word is erased, and I have to do the 'one letter at a time' bullshit. 4. Alternatively at step 3, I could have tapped on the incorrectly spelled word to have it added to the sms I'm composing, and then edited it by positioning the cursor, backspacing, fixing the mistakes, and repositioning the cursor at the end of the text. I can do that, that is, *if* the software happens to want to let me position the cursor, rather than selecting everything between where I'm trying to put the cursor and the end of the message. I haven't been able to determine exactly what factors influence whether it will let me position the cursor or select text to the end, but I think it has to do with the ambient humidity and wind speed/direction. Of course, This is all as much or more of a hassle than the 'one letter at a time' method which you advocate. Don't you dare even trying to tell me that my test is invalid, and that I need to type with precision in step 1, because if you try to tell me that, then I'll have one very simple and effective retort: What is the point of having a dictionary lookup system like the one in QTe unless it's to figure out what you were trying to type, and correct
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lorn Potter wrote: > > You just need to add your words to the dictionary, so you wont have to > tap so much. > ...which is exactly why it should be very easy, perhaps even automatic, to add words to the dictionary... -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvajUFbVnQRV3OEYRAhmqAJ40rBM2gTbrdyxIqj8rsC9KDhB3iQCeOych 9Hx4eiS4RUifG7soyrUBVIY= =1SJT -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lorn Potter wrote: > Just hold down on the letter you want to select. You will see a round > 'spy glass' thing pop up with your letter. This is all well and good, but it's for all intents and purposes totally useless in practical application - typing anything remotely long or complex (examples: My mail server address, somebody's surname, a phone number, an email address, a street/suburb name, GPS coordinates) takes an *inordinate* amount of time - just try typing out your postal address using that method - you'll soon find that you're developing a powerful urge to stab yourself in the eyeballs with a rusty fork... ;) If typing your postal address doesn't do it, see how long it takes you to type the following (spelling is important!): "yo doodz wots up? im sendin this sms cuz i cbf typin an email you ya, and cuz i wanna demo jus how goddamn awful it is to type wen it takes 3 secs for each bluddy letta. Got ne rusty forks lyin round?" How long does it take you to type 'antidisestablishmentarianism' using this method? Don't forget to also include in this figure the time it takes to type "antidisestablishmentarianism", only to discover that it's not in the dictionary, then delete that, then type it out letter-by-letter. For comparison, here are some figures I just worked out, using a stopwatch to time myself typing 'antidisestablishmentarianism': * My PC - Standard US 101-key IBM Model M qwerty Keyboard - 6.18 seconds * My Ipaq - HP Ipaq 6515 with built-in mini-qwerty keyboard - 12.35 Seconds * FreeRunner running QT extended, using 'predictive keyboard': 81.95 Seconds (almost a minute and a half!) I can't think of a more dramatic way to point out how slow this method is. Obviously I don't expect it to match the Ipaq, but more than 6 times slower than the Ipaq is abysmal. It shouldn't take a minute and a half to type one word. The simple and easy solution is as I noted before: the predictive text should always offer you exactly what you type - if I type "pwned", I want to see "pwned" and "owned" in the word list, regardless of whether "pwned" is in the dictionary. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvahwFbVnQRV3OEYRAq6mAJ0To58Vc54Hru3M1ZKAn6i+xlmDtACfQ570 9m2TNlW85XJ/lAVLcLF0uLQ= =25K7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lorn Potter wrote: > > I find the 'predictive' keyboard quite usable. You just need to forget > what it is suggesting until you are finished with the word. > But for any language other than English, it might be a hassle. > It isn't too bad, but it's very painful as soon as the word you're typing isn't in it's dictionary. It should always offer exactly what you typed as an option, regardless of whether it's in the dictionay or not: If I type "pwned", I should see both "pwned" and "owned" in the word list. It's also completely evil when you try to type just a single character, such as the word "I" or a full stop - I often have trouble tapping on these in the word list to get them to be added to what I'm typing - seems they're too small and require precise tapping. You should be able to add a word to the dictionary very easily, perhaps even automatically adding any word you type which isn't in the dictionary - I use *many* non-dictionary wrds wen im typin an sms, 2 da point where "language other than english' would describe it. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvYBLFbVnQRV3OEYRAouhAKCcPqoOISvoBpJI+M/y0CCgvfs60ACgknLW UEXls4NoRCHbn5CFHDK3DCc= =JgbT -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Newbie questions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Robin Paulson wrote: > for a simple stable phone, i'd start with qt ext and then give shr a go > For a simple and stable phone, I'd start with a Nokia... -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJtKtYFbVnQRV3OEYRArryAJ4j/4THJ8cUjZcRvCKTLPuWAcBJCQCgvXyv yr7jLbCGOIxXXypDQmZA3zw= =AJvZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: NeoTool
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Joop Boonen wrote:
> I've changed a few things in NeoTool.
Thanks for your contributions!
Please note however that I am working (*very* slowly!) on NeoTool v1.3,
and these changes may or may not appear in the new version. I am however
quite willing to consider this an 'official' v1.2.1.
> 1) No need to run it as root any more as long as you are in the uucp group.
NeoTool v1.3 has this, but it's achieved through a different method - It
prompts for your user password and then uses this to call 'sudo
dfu-util' rather than just 'dfu-util'. I will look into your mention of
the uucp group.
Also you should note that if you are concerned about security the temp
filenames should be generated using mktemp, i.e Line 48 would become:
tmp_error_log_path=`mktemp /tmp/neotool.XXX`
> 2) The config is saved in ~/.neotoolrc
NeoTool v1.3 will use ~/.neotool.conf to save user settings, and
/etc/neotool.conf to save root's settings, and/or to load defaults if no
user settings file is found (root's settings become the default). If
neither of these files is found, v1.3 will use /etc/frutil for backwards
compatibility. I will not be adding any support for ~/.neotoolrc, but I
may add a 'load custom settings' option which would allow you to specify
your own settings file. I would suggest that you should probably change
your v1.2.1 to use neotool.conf rather than neotoolrc for maximum
backwards compatibility.
> 3) The backup directory can be chosen, the default is: ~/openmoko/backups
For the record, this could already be achieved by adding a path to the
backup filename setting. NeoTool checks for the existence of the
specified path and attempts to create it if it cannot find it. This can
be used for example to store your backups in date-defined subfolders: if
you set your backup filename to: "/openmoko/backups/{date]/{image}",
NeoTool will automatically try to create a "17-Feb-2009" subfolder under
/data/openmoko, and will put the backup files in this folder. Please
ensure that your changes do not interfere with this.
> I couldn't reach the original maintainer yet. So i build version 1.2.1 for
> now, in the rpm packages.
I've been very busy over the last few months, hence my slow progress on
NeoTool, slow replies, and less involvement in this list. If you want to
have this considered an 'official' v1.2.1, please update the wiki page
for NeoTool at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NeoTool. :)
Regards
- -Dale
>
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Re: [om2008-9] Never able to successfully backup the jffs2 partition...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 john dowd wrote: > I've alway been able to backup the kernel partition of my Neo FR but > not the jffs2 partition. Here's the error that is reported: > > Opening USB Device 0x:0x... > Found Runtime: [0x1d50:0x5119] devnum=4, cfg=0, intf=0, alt=6, name="rootfs" > Claiming USB DFU Interface... > Setting Alternate Setting ... > Determining device status: state = dfuERROR, status = 14 > dfuERROR, clearing status > Determining device status: state = dfuIDLE, status = 0 > dfuIDLE, continuing > Transfer Size = 0x1000 > dfu_upload error -84 > > This is not a terrible big deal right now but will be in the future. > Any ideas? Questions comments or rude remarks? > > Cheers!! > -- NeoTool will backup your root partition to a flashable jffs2 without using dfu-util" http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NeoTool Regards, - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJbRonFbVnQRV3OEYRApQwAKCm9M/V1hJ/5vtWthVIotL6rU8CKwCfTypI 0Sr1/X6Y+q6DMatM/IWygQ0= =D7Ag -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QTExtended] duplicated sms
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I've done a fair bit of searching lately and I've not found anything. If you find something, please let me know! I also get it with incoming phone calls (not all the time, but "often") Lorn from Trolltech said recently that we can expect a new version soon... - -Dale Giorgio Marci wrote: > So..is there nothing to do in order to resolve this problem? > > - Original Message - > From: "drac2000" > To: community@lists.openmoko.org > Subject: Re: [QTExtended] duplicated sms > Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 09:17:02 -0800 (PST) > > > > > Giorgio Marci wrote: > > > > Hi to all, > > > > i have the same problem of several people: in qtextended 4.4.2 the > > messages are duplicated for some reason. > > > > > > For me not only messages, but incoming phone calls also > I think the issue of ghost incoming calls is still here :-( even with > using > hypnotize image) > > -- > View this message in context: > http://n2.nabble.com/-QTExtended--duplicated-sms-tp1668670p1668820.html > Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJShSdFbVnQRV3OEYRAsKcAJ9XjSMw6OsbfYPYgULz2ExtBd8EUgCgreSc qOr+g4OvSAQzKn4tC10Xcy4= =BQrH -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: case manufacturing
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Vincent Pomageot wrote: > Take a look at what swisscom have made : > http://www.om.vptt.ch/site/?page_id=53 > > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community damn! that's very sleek-looking! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJQ8e9FbVnQRV3OEYRAukwAJ9WNT2l4sCWwM4fQHXklqUPENzK8wCgocVn 1uF279/AyqL6cJgDDdgWtJA= =E8Eh -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QT Extended
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Bastian Muck wrote: > Dale Maggee schrieb: > Bastian Muck wrote: > >>>> Dale Maggee schrieb: >>>> >>>> [..] >>>> >>>>> 2. The Messaging app - it's doing strange things, like sometimes it >>>>> creates duplicates of messages, so I'll see 2 or 3 copies of the same >>>>> SMS in my inbox. So I'll move all messages to trash and empty trash, >>>>> then a couple of minutes later an SMS will arrive and it'll say '17 >>>>> messages recieved' and I'll see many duplicates of old messages I just >>>>> deleted in my inbox. Also it will only store about 130 messages - is >>>>> this storing SMS messages on the SIM? can it be configured to store them >>>>> in it's own database? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> The messages are stored in the Sim and in the sqlite-db. When i delete >>>> copies of my sms, these sms are not copied. The message '17' new >>>> messages habe arrived is caused when 17 messages are stored in the sim. >>>> when you delete the messages, next time there are just 1 or 2 messages. >>>> I guess, that on an arrived sms the messages is forgotten to be deleted >>>> from sim. Maybe that just 1 line of code may be the solution of the >>>> problem. But I don't know the code, so I can't give a 100% correct >>>> comment. This are just my expierences. >>>> >>>>> [..] >>>>> 4. I'm told that the echo is back (which wasn't there with Trolltech's >>>>> QT extended image, the one which didn't ring) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> There is just no echo, because the volume set in QT extended ist quite >>>> low. with this volume I had no problem with any image. >>>> >>>>> Does anybody have any ideas on any of these things? apart from this and >>>>> the fact that I can't run any of the cool software being produced for >>>>> 2008.x, I like Qt Extended alot! >>>>> >>>>> >>>> You can't run these apps because QT Extended has no support for GTK-Apps. >>>> >>>> >>>> Greetungs Bastian >>>> > > Thanks for your response, unfortunately it doesn't really help solve any > of the problems i'm having. > > My friends are reporting that there *is* an echo, so telling me there's > no echo doesn't really cut it... :) > > -Dale >> ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community >> > When the Handsfree-option is actevated, I have a heavy echo, too. But > when Handset is activated, my settings are so low, that no echo is > hearable. But afaik it depends on signalstrength and provider. And I > nearly have good signal. For your problem: try to decrease mono-volume. > This helped me with 2008.x > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community That's another problem I have: Sometimes it seems to go to handsfree by itself: I'll answer the phone and for some reason it'll be in handsfree mode and I have to switch it to handset. I'll try playing with volume levels, thanks. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJQ8eTFbVnQRV3OEYRAneBAKCDmlejjtUV5xrjyeanJshP+vj0fwCdFNpt rw5EOW7TfRDxb3Iy+6cgNYs= =RPdf -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QT Extended
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Bastian Muck wrote: > Dale Maggee schrieb: > > [..] >> 2. The Messaging app - it's doing strange things, like sometimes it >> creates duplicates of messages, so I'll see 2 or 3 copies of the same >> SMS in my inbox. So I'll move all messages to trash and empty trash, >> then a couple of minutes later an SMS will arrive and it'll say '17 >> messages recieved' and I'll see many duplicates of old messages I just >> deleted in my inbox. Also it will only store about 130 messages - is >> this storing SMS messages on the SIM? can it be configured to store them >> in it's own database? >> >> > The messages are stored in the Sim and in the sqlite-db. When i delete > copies of my sms, these sms are not copied. The message '17' new > messages habe arrived is caused when 17 messages are stored in the sim. > when you delete the messages, next time there are just 1 or 2 messages. > I guess, that on an arrived sms the messages is forgotten to be deleted > from sim. Maybe that just 1 line of code may be the solution of the > problem. But I don't know the code, so I can't give a 100% correct > comment. This are just my expierences. >> [..] >> 4. I'm told that the echo is back (which wasn't there with Trolltech's >> QT extended image, the one which didn't ring) >> >> > There is just no echo, because the volume set in QT extended ist quite > low. with this volume I had no problem with any image. >> Does anybody have any ideas on any of these things? apart from this and >> the fact that I can't run any of the cool software being produced for >> 2008.x, I like Qt Extended alot! >> > You can't run these apps because QT Extended has no support for GTK-Apps. > > > Greetungs Bastian Thanks for your response, unfortunately it doesn't really help solve any of the problems i'm having. My friends are reporting that there *is* an echo, so telling me there's no echo doesn't really cut it... :) - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJQ6wEFbVnQRV3OEYRAnpRAJ4piyzAjj86NssJ/3vbMhV2anVCnwCeIQz6 gYXy5HaS0inU0fvLrusxV8c= =aM/z -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Happiness
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sargun Dhillon wrote: > we really should bitch out Smedia..., see below for > contact info), and the GSM echo. I gotta say, well done. Keep it > coming. > > Smedia's addresses: > 8F., No.1, Jinshan 7th St., Hsinchu City, Taiwan > Tel: +886-3-6661166 > Fax: +886-3-5670055 > > Addr :9F,No.233-1, Baociao Rd.,Sindian City, Taipei County 23145.Taiwan. > Tel: +886-2-2918-9958 > Fax: +886-2-2918-9975 > > E-mail addresses: > market...@smediatech.com > sa...@smediatech.com > > If you contact Smedia, please don't say you have a direct affiliation > with the OM project, I'm sure Sean and Steve would not approve. > This gives me a thought: I seem to recall OM people saying that they were unsatisfied with Smedia, saying something to the effect that they felt that Smedia had broken promises with regard to opening up the glamo (I paraphrase and may remember incorrectly), so maybe they would approve, maybe we could all petition Smedia - maybe this is even a way the community can help OM, by harassing Smedia for them...? - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJQ6sPFbVnQRV3OEYRAhhoAJ9Jj/Hq1/W5+iWM3h8lfZqLW1ouxwCgwTdf lCQlUPUrTJMseQ8mEmzao+4= =aHsN -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QT Extended
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lorn Potter wrote: > Dale Maggee wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Hi, >> >> I'm having a couple of problems with QT Extended (the fixed version from >> http://other.lastnetwork.net/OpenMoko/): >> >> 1. The predictive keyboard. I deleted the dictionary file as suggested >> elsewhere to disable the predictive keyboard, but it still predicts >> words which are found in my address book, like people's names, which >> makes it even less useful because now it never ever suggests the word >> I'm trying to type! >> >> 2. The Messaging app - it's doing strange things, like sometimes it >> creates duplicates of messages, so I'll see 2 or 3 copies of the same >> SMS in my inbox. So I'll move all messages to trash and empty trash, >> then a couple of minutes later an SMS will arrive and it'll say '17 >> messages recieved' and I'll see many duplicates of old messages I just >> deleted in my inbox. Also it will only store about 130 messages - is >> this storing SMS messages on the SIM? can it be configured to store them >> in it's own database? >> >> 3. The clock - every time I reboot the device I need to set the clock, >> it seems to revert to GMT and not take my timezone into account, or >> something. I tried using the 'hwclock --systohc' command but got an error. >> >> 4. I'm told that the echo is back (which wasn't there with Trolltech's >> QT extended image, the one which didn't ring) >> >> Does anybody have any ideas on any of these things? apart from this and >> the fact that I can't run any of the cool software being produced for >> 2008.x, I like Qt Extended alot! >> >> I'd also like to know if anybody knows if there's a new version of QT >> Extended in the works - I've noticed Lorn Potter has been pretty quiet >> on these lists lately... >> >> Apologies if this has been asked / solved elsewhere - I had a bit of a >> look but couldn't find anything much... > > I am still here. Just been busy with other things. > I will try to get a snapshot out before the solstice. > Hi Lorn, thanks for your reply. I look forward to seeing it! :) - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJQv2sFbVnQRV3OEYRAh4vAJ96rPOspesBRfEAvI628XM7oPWPOwCgiepq S+0LcfeQ+mgwek9gG0TCv5E= =cUNP -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: case manufacturing
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 rakshat hooja wrote: >>> ponoko.com would do it for you, or emachineshop.com >> if you get some pricing, could you let us know -- even your desgin? >> i am still pondering the idea of a new casing ... >> >> > Thanks. will update when I get pricing. My design is still at the idea stage > - add a USB keyboard (qwerty) into the case design itself. Will make it > heavier but helps my use case as I want to stop carrying my laptop with me > when I have the Freerunner and the onscreen kb (illume), though good, is > slightly small when typing out documents. (Guess I am looking for a > Blackberry equvalent) > > Rakshat Hi, I've had this thought before as well - if you end up getting one be sure to let me know, because I'd love something like this! - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJQjWfFbVnQRV3OEYRAtp7AKCL/Z0ZI/klSY5MZhvyco3Ab3FEgwCeJ5FJ CnvvU8nnQB3Mj7tt3btRt28= =zUcY -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
QT Extended
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, I'm having a couple of problems with QT Extended (the fixed version from http://other.lastnetwork.net/OpenMoko/): 1. The predictive keyboard. I deleted the dictionary file as suggested elsewhere to disable the predictive keyboard, but it still predicts words which are found in my address book, like people's names, which makes it even less useful because now it never ever suggests the word I'm trying to type! 2. The Messaging app - it's doing strange things, like sometimes it creates duplicates of messages, so I'll see 2 or 3 copies of the same SMS in my inbox. So I'll move all messages to trash and empty trash, then a couple of minutes later an SMS will arrive and it'll say '17 messages recieved' and I'll see many duplicates of old messages I just deleted in my inbox. Also it will only store about 130 messages - is this storing SMS messages on the SIM? can it be configured to store them in it's own database? 3. The clock - every time I reboot the device I need to set the clock, it seems to revert to GMT and not take my timezone into account, or something. I tried using the 'hwclock --systohc' command but got an error. 4. I'm told that the echo is back (which wasn't there with Trolltech's QT extended image, the one which didn't ring) Does anybody have any ideas on any of these things? apart from this and the fact that I can't run any of the cool software being produced for 2008.x, I like Qt Extended alot! I'd also like to know if anybody knows if there's a new version of QT Extended in the works - I've noticed Lorn Potter has been pretty quiet on these lists lately... Apologies if this has been asked / solved elsewhere - I had a bit of a look but couldn't find anything much... TIA, - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD4DBQFJQiLYkcvySXv0+acRAvu3AKCB/K20pov0px664Gb8h09HrwK4aACXW2Qy dY74QK+If4ARtYXg9zYd1w== =RSJu -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Koolu announces open-source Android port
Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: > Rui Castro wrote: > >> I downloaded the code from http://git.koolu.org/ and tried to make the >> generic image, simply executing make, but it fails with the following >> error >> -- >> make: *** No rule to make target >> `out/host/linux-x86/framework/swt.jar', needed by >> `out/host/common/obj/JAVA_LIBRARIES/sdkstats_intermediates/javalib.jar'. >> Stop. >> -- >> > > Have you tried to run the compilation process with: > make TARGET_PRODUCT=freerunner > > This seems to compile... > > >> What should I do to compile a jffs2 image? Is it possible already? >> > > I don't think that it is automatized, but maybe taking the out/ files, > comparing and merging them (mostly the settings files like init.rc) with > the ones from the Sean's image we could get a working rootfs... > > Is this a seperate porting project to the one we already knew about, or are they combining their efforts? More importantly, does it work as a phone? -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bounties?
>> Just out of curiosity, how many OpenMoko users out there would be >> willing to pay for bounties? Additionally, how many developers would >> work for bounties? What sort of bounties would you guys request? How >> much would you pay? >> I would certainly pay bounties. The only problem I see really is that there are many issues which are wrapped up together. For example, I'd happily pay AU$100 to have rock-solid with all the basic phone functionality, but for me this means suspend / resume, no echo, a simple (as in easy to use and understand) graphical volume control which can be adjusted during calls and automatically saves changes to the appropriate state file, PIM database and PIM synchronisation, Tasks / Calendar / alarms. From a user's perspective, these are kind of one big compound issue which I'd call "give me equal functionality / reliability to a cheap nokia", whereas from a developer's perspective they're many small and widely diverse things that need to be done / improved. I certainly think it could be worth somebody setting up a bounties website, I believe I've seen similar things in the past... -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
Denis Johnson wrote: > On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 6:59 PM, Dale Maggee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> * It's my Hard drive that doesn't support FLAC! If I used flac, my music >> library (I guess "mp3 collection" will soon become a misnomer!) would be >> *enormous*! Yes, I realise it's lossless etc etc, but 320kpbs mp3s are >> close enough for me. >> > > I understand and agree that from a quality pov MP3 @ 320kpbs is > sufficient for most, and the amount of space required for your library > matters, but I was under the impression that FLAC is also a compressed > format. However I must admit I'm not sure how it compares to MP3 @ > 320kpbs > > cheers Denis > FLAC *is* compressed, but it's lossless compression, meaning that there is no change to the sound when you encode it to FLAC, Whereas when you encode to MP3 or ogg, you're losing audio information. Usually it's not noticable, and the higher bitrate you choose the less you lose, but there is a difference. Personally, I can't hear the difference between an audio CD and a 320kbps mp3 on my equipment, but ymmv. In terms of file size, FLAC is bigger than 320kbps (not sure exactly how much bigger, as I don't have much experience with flac, but It's substantially bigger). If you have unlimited HDD space and really care about audio quality, FLAC is the way to go. If you want some free HDD space and decent sounding stuff, 320kbps mp3s (or, more precisely, since abandoning mp3 is the whole point of the discussion, the ogg equivalent of a 320kbps mp3 - I haven't figured out how ogg's quality scale thing works yet) are a very reasonable compromise, and if you can hear the difference it pretty much means you're a) using expensive equipment and b) a freak of nature. ;) But really it all comes down to personal taste. If you have a nice big HDD, you might even want to encode everything in FLAC and then re-encode it at 256kb for burning CDs for use in your car / mp3 player / clock radio / fridge / whatever... -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
David Pottage wrote: > On Thu, November 27, 2008 7:06 am, Denis Johnson wrote: > > >> ... Preferably using something like http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/ (if >> someone knows a Linux equivalent please chime in) >> > > The linux equivalent is cdparanoia. Like EAC it will produce bit > perfect rips of audio CDs. It is a command line program > > If you want a GUI, then you can use Grip. It is a GTK based program > that automates the whole process of ripping, track listing lookups, and > transcoding to your prefered compressed format. If you have a big stack > of CDs to rip, then you can easily sit there using your computer for > other things, and feed in a new CD every few minutes. > > Thanks for everybody's advice. some comments: * Grip is fantastic * Thanks for observing that mp3 -> ogg is lossy, and that I should just delete my mp3s and go from CD -> ogg where possible * It's my Hard drive that doesn't support FLAC! If I used flac, my music library (I guess "mp3 collection" will soon become a misnomer!) would be *enormous*! Yes, I realise it's lossless etc etc, but 320kpbs mp3s are close enough for me. Thanks, -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
Evgeny Karyakin wrote: > I think this movement will apply on newly-legalizing patents only, it > will be too much counterforce against it. Patents is vital for > software giants, it's just a basis of their market activity and > relevancy. > As of recent MP3 issue, open-source community can definitely apply > just a little bit more willingness and forget about deprecated formats > in favour of new ones. On this note, can anybody point me to a piece of software which will mass-convert all my mp3s to ogg at the press of a button? It would need to preserve all my ID3 Tags etc. We're talking thousands of files / gigabytes of data here... Thanks, -D ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: I realy like them
drac2000 wrote: > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Jokes http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Jokes :-p > Just for the record, these were contributed by various people here: http://www.mail-archive.com/community@lists.openmoko.org/msg33921.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Survey about the Touchscreen
Sometimes I wish this was Slashdot: "Score: 5, Insightful" :) Stroller wrote: > On 21 Nov 2008, at 16:41, Tilman Baumann wrote: > >> I just want to point out that I will not vote because the vote is >> bullshit. >> > > +1 > > I when I finished reading this list yesterday it had only 3 replies, > and thought about replying. > > Unless your email address ends in @openmoko.com, please keep "surveys" > and "votes" off this list! > > They seem to generate a very high number of posts lacking in > thoughtfulness - as opposed to, say, those a thread titled "capacitive > screens vs touchscreens" might - and it is naive to consider what kind > of hardware an individual user would prefer in isolation of all the > other compromises that would be required to accommodate the decision. > > >> And even more important. Price and availability. >> >> What you want is totally unimportant. The question is which >> compromises >> are you ready to make? >> This is nothing that can be figured out by some stupid two options >> poll. >> ... >> >> I would like openmoko to do bold steps. >> But they should also be careful. >> > > Introduction of a multi-touch screen would only fragment the userbase. > 10,000 Freerunner owners would be bitching that they can't run > $new.app because it requires the new screen type; owners of the new > device would be bitching that existing apps don't use the cool new > interface. > > Hardware decisions are best made by those who actually have an insight > into ALL the variables of the planned hardware. The whims of you & I > are simply irrelevant if Openmoko / FIC are unable to purchase multi- > touch screens. In case you're not aware, hardware decisions have > already been constrained by an unavailability of parts in such small > quantities as those used in Openmoko devices - you might have to buy > 100,000 or 1,000,000 units before the vendor will talk to you. > > Besides that, GTA03 is no longer subject to change - isn't it stupid > to be making plans (especially when you're not in a position to do so) > for GTA04 or 05, when the hardware available by that time might be > quite different from what is on the market now? > > Thanks for cluttering up my inbox with this irrelevancy. > > Stroller. > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The forbidden topic: Glamo OpenGL
Warren Baird wrote: OM2008.9 and FSO walk into a bar. "How are you? How are you?" asks FSO. "Buzzz" says OM2008.9 LOL! (for once, usage of that horrible acronym is actually appropriate - I really did laugh out loud!) this is my new splash screen... :D moko_bar.gz Description: GNU Zip compressed data ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The forbidden topic: Glamo OpenGL
hehehe, it's good to see OM people having a sense of humour as well! :) Steve Mosher wrote: > they don't already? > please issue a ticket. we'll fix the bug. > > George Brooke wrote: > >> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 00:01:47 +1100 >> Dale Maggee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >>> Tig wrote: >>> >>>> Ok I will bite :) >>>> >>>> Q: Why did OM cross the road? >>>> A: To get to another toolkit :) >>>> >>>> Q: How many OM devs does it take to change a lightbulb? >>>> A: Well first we need to abandon the old lightbulb holder because >>>> at a later date we may not be able to plug a floodlight in, bring >>>> in a new lightbulb holder and adapt it to multiple floodlights, >>>> meanwhile the engineering team has realized that this will only run >>>> green floodlights and has started rewiring the whole house.. :) >>>> The burnt out lightbulb is due to be fixed at a later date :) >>>> >>>> Please not this is not a cue for a thread on lightbulb analogies :) >>>> >>>> Q: What is the difference between a professional photographer and >>>> OM user? A: The OM user has to flash more often :) >>>> >>>> Q: Why did the OM newbie log onto #openmoko? >>>> A: Because they had not read: >>>> a) the wiki >>>> and >>>> b) the topic >>>> >>>> As then they would know you slide your finder up on the >>>> keyboard to get the numbers to enter your sim pin. >>>> >>>> I will be here all week, try the salad :) >>>> >>>> Regards (apologies for posting via gmane moving e-mail around) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Hehe, love the lightbulb one! >>> >>> Q: What's the difference between an iphone and a freerunner? >>> A: One works but takes away your freedom, the other is free but needs >>> your work >>> >>> Knock, Knock >>> Who's There? >>> A Neo User >>> A Neo User >>> >>> Q: What did the Neo say to the insomniac? >>> A: At least when you go to sleep you know you'll wake up! >>> >>> Ancient chinese proverb: "Neo owner is man carrying wall charger" >>> >>> And I've saved my favorite for last: >>> >>> Q: What's the difference between a brick and a freerunner? >>> A: A brick isn't designed to make phone calls. >>> >>> ;) >>> >>> -Dale >>> >>> (All in good fun) >>> >> Maybe these should appear on the splash screen of the Neos >> >> solar.george >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> Openmoko community mailing list >> community@lists.openmoko.org >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community >> > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Your favorite ringtones? (especially .sid?)
The Best SID ever is the theme from R-Type, IMHO. It also makes a fantastic ringtone. The only problem with having this as a ringtone is that you tend not to answer the phone because you're boogie-ing along to the awesome ringtone. Other notable Sids include music from: - IK+ (International Karate Plus) - Maniac Mansion - Robocop - Bubble bobble There are literally thousands of SIDs available. To find them, you really can't go past the High Voltage Sid Collection, which somebody else linked to. When it came out, the SID chip in the c64 was considered a very advanced sound chip, so the C64 music scene thrived. There are still people (like me!) who still listen to sid files to this day. If you can't be bothered looking at the thousands of sids in the HVSC, try checking out the top 100: http://www.transbyte.org/SID/HVSC_Top100.html I was gratified to see all of my recommendations except for bubble bobble and maniac mansion in the top 100. If you can't be bothered testing each SID tune on your Neo, get yourself a sid player plugin for your audio software (personally, I use XMMS and the XMMS-SID plugin) to listen to them on your PC. There are also standalone SID players if you can't find a plugin. Enjoy! -Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi, > I'm looking for a new ringtone (I like the arkanoid theme, but I need > a change). If you have one you like, could you let me (us) know? > > Tobias mentions a place to find .sids in his email below -- I just > couldn't go through all of them. > > Thanks, > Eric > > > > Tobias Gruetzmacher wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Here is a patch for frameworkd that allows to inject gstreamer options >> into file names for the audio playing service. I wrote it because I >> wanted to use the title music from Giana Sisters as a ring tone, which >> is tune number 5 in Great_Giana_Sisters_PSID.sid ;) >> >> This patch is very generic to allow any option to be injected from the >> file name. It may be desirable to restrict this to specific options, but >> currently this allows everything, so you can easily break playing >> altogether... >> >> So if you really want to hear "Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit" in >> glorious 3-channel SID, grab yourself a copy of >> http://hafnium.prg.dtu.dk/HVSC/C64Music/GAMES/S-Z/Summer_Games.sid, >> place it in /usr/share/sounds and set "Summer_Games.sid;tune=5" as your >> ring tone. >> >> Or a manic laughter when an SMS arrives? Try >> http://hafnium.prg.dtu.dk/HVSC/C64Music/MUSICIANS/L/Lieblich_Russell/Ghostbusters_PSID.sid >> and set "Ghostbusters_PSID.sid;tune=4" as your message tone. >> >> Well, you get the idea. :) >> >> Since I'm not very fluent with Python, please point out anything I might >> have done wrong. Hope you like the patch. >> >> Greetings, Tobias >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> smartphones-standards mailing list >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-standards >> > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The forbidden topic: Glamo OpenGL
Maybe these should appear on the splash screen of the Neos solar.george Brilliant! 1. Save either attachment somewhere 2. Use NeoTool or 'dfu-util -a splash -R -D ' to flash the new splash to your neo 3. power down then turn on your neo 4. Laugh. :D -Dale moko_brick.gz Description: GNU Zip compressed data knock_knock.gz Description: GNU Zip compressed data ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The forbidden topic: Glamo OpenGL
Tig wrote: > Ok I will bite :) > > Q: Why did OM cross the road? > A: To get to another toolkit :) > > Q: How many OM devs does it take to change a lightbulb? > A: Well first we need to abandon the old lightbulb holder because at a later > date we may not be able to plug a floodlight in, bring in a new lightbulb > holder and adapt it to multiple floodlights, meanwhile the engineering team > has > realized that this will only run green floodlights and has started rewiring > the > whole house.. :) The burnt out lightbulb is due to be fixed at a later date > :) > > Please not this is not a cue for a thread on lightbulb analogies :) > > Q: What is the difference between a professional photographer and OM user? > A: The OM user has to flash more often :) > > Q: Why did the OM newbie log onto #openmoko? > A: Because they had not read: > a) the wiki > and > b) the topic > > As then they would know you slide your finder up on the keyboard to get > the > numbers to enter your sim pin. > > I will be here all week, try the salad :) > > Regards (apologies for posting via gmane moving e-mail around) > > > Hehe, love the lightbulb one! Q: What's the difference between an iphone and a freerunner? A: One works but takes away your freedom, the other is free but needs your work Knock, Knock Who's There? A Neo User A Neo User Q: What did the Neo say to the insomniac? A: At least when you go to sleep you know you'll wake up! Ancient chinese proverb: "Neo owner is man carrying wall charger" And I've saved my favorite for last: Q: What's the difference between a brick and a freerunner? A: A brick isn't designed to make phone calls. ;) -Dale (All in good fun) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: NeoTool/dfu-util bug - No such Alternate Setting: "rootfs"
Mikko Ohtamaa wrote: > Symptoms dfu-util/Neotool fails to flash Openmoko when using wiki.openmoko.org > instructions: > > sudo ./dfu-util.1 -a rootfs -R -D > Fat_and_Dirty_OM.200809_20081023.rootfs.jffs2 > dfu-util - (C) 2007 by OpenMoko Inc. > This program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY > > Opening USB Device 0x:0x... > Claiming USB DFU Runtime Interface... > Determining device status: state = dfuIDLE, status = 0 > WARNING: Runtime device already in DFU state ?!? > No such Alternate Setting: "rootfs" > > Cause: > > Neotool/dfu-util automatically picks wrong USB device - it must pick this one > > Found DFU Runtime: [0x1457:0x5119] devnum=0, cfg=0, intf=2, alt=0, name="USB > Device Firmware Upgrade" > > In my case, the wrong device was something built into my laptop: > > Bus 005 Device 003: ID 03f0:181d Hewlett-Packard > > Workaround: > > Use dfu-util -d parameter to specify device id manually. > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: NeoTool/dfu-util bug - No such Alternate Setting: "rootfs"
Hi, Are you using the latest version of NeoTool? v1.1 and up should be able to detect and handle this situation by presenting you with a screen asking you which dfu-capable device you want to flash. If you are using the latest version, please run 'dfu-util -l' and post the output here. Regards, -Dale Mikko Ohtamaa wrote: > Symptoms dfu-util/Neotool fails to flash Openmoko when using wiki.openmoko.org > instructions: > > sudo ./dfu-util.1 -a rootfs -R -D > Fat_and_Dirty_OM.200809_20081023.rootfs.jffs2 > dfu-util - (C) 2007 by OpenMoko Inc. > This program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY > > Opening USB Device 0x:0x... > Claiming USB DFU Runtime Interface... > Determining device status: state = dfuIDLE, status = 0 > WARNING: Runtime device already in DFU state ?!? > No such Alternate Setting: "rootfs" > > Cause: > > Neotool/dfu-util automatically picks wrong USB device - it must pick this one > > Found DFU Runtime: [0x1457:0x5119] devnum=0, cfg=0, intf=2, alt=0, name="USB > Device Firmware Upgrade" > > In my case, the wrong device was something built into my laptop: > > Bus 005 Device 003: ID 03f0:181d Hewlett-Packard > > Workaround: > > Use dfu-util -d parameter to specify device id manually. > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Determine Distro?
Charles Pax wrote: > On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 10:03 AM, Dale Maggee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > >> Does anyone know a way to determine which distro I have on my freerunner >> from the command line? I'm looking into adding the ability for NeoTool >> to import and export contacts, but to do that I'd need a way to >> determine whether the user has 2007.2, Qtopia, 2008.x, or FSO installed. >> >> > > Have you considered writing a plugin for Conduit [1]? It can synchronize > across a network two evolution data servers, so Conduit + USB networking > could make for a nice solution. > > -Charles Pax > > [1] http://www.conduit-project.org/ > I'm still learning bash, so no, I haven't considered that! I just want to automate using the existing tools to import and export vcf files... -D ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: NeoTool - v1.2 available
> nice work! > Thanks > could i make a feature request? as there is a link on the om site > pointing to the 'latest' kernel/uboot/rootfs to download, could > neotool be developed further, to download it and then flash it all in > one step? > > or is this impossible because a long pause (while the file's being > downloaded) at the uboot screen will cause the neo to carry on > booting? or is there a way round this, i.e. telling the neo to wait > for an indefinite amount of time, or tricking it into thinking > something is happening while the file downloads? > I've had this thought, too - it has occurred to me that a 'download latest release' option would be cool... It's not impossible because of the pause while downloading, I'd just make NeoTool download the file before showing the "About to flash, Please boot to the menu" message. There are a few problems, though: One problem I had was determining where to get the files, and how to tell when there's a new release - I'd rather not hard code addresses into it, so for this to work there would need to be something like: http://downloads.openmoko.com/releases/latest/release.jffs2 http://downloads.openmoko.com/releases/latest/kernel.bin you say "there is a link on the om site pointing to the 'latest' kernel/uboot/rootfs to download"... which link are you referring to? Another issue I had was determining which files to download: I'd need to prompt to find out whether to get the GTA01 or GTA02 files. Alternatively, I guess it would be possible to traverse downloads.openmoko.org and present a menu allowing the user to specify what to download, but I don't know how to at the moment, and this is basically duplicating the functionality of pointing your browser to this address, so it seems kind of redundant to me. In the end I decided not to do it because I figured I'd basically be duplicating your browser's functionality, and that I would be better off devoting my efforts to more Neo-specific stuff, like adding the ability to backup. If anybody has any other Ideas on how I might go about implementing this, I'd love to hear them. -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Determine Distro?
Tim Churchard wrote:
> Dale Maggee wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Does anyone know a way to determine which distro I have on my freerunner
>> from the command line? I'm looking into adding the ability for NeoTool
>> to import and export contacts, but to do that I'd need a way to
>> determine whether the user has 2007.2, Qtopia, 2008.x, or FSO installed.
>>
>> I was thinking that one thing I could do would be 'which addressbook' to
>> find Qtopia / 2008.x, but does anybody have a better suggestion?
>>
>>
>>
> cat /etc/om-version will tell you which branch of code you're running
> (eg org.openmoko.asu.stable {200?.? & FDOM} or fso / shr - qtopia
> probably also has one of these?
>
>
thanks, but there's no /etc/om-version in 2007.2...
-Dale
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Determine Distro?
Hi, Does anyone know a way to determine which distro I have on my freerunner from the command line? I'm looking into adding the ability for NeoTool to import and export contacts, but to do that I'd need a way to determine whether the user has 2007.2, Qtopia, 2008.x, or FSO installed. I was thinking that one thing I could do would be 'which addressbook' to find Qtopia / 2008.x, but does anybody have a better suggestion? Regards, -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: NeoTool - v1.2 available
> Thanks for Neotool! > You're welcome! :) > Found a typo: Neotool Configurification (instead of Configuration) > And menu item 'setup neotool' takes to 'neotool configuration', a > consistency in the names would make it easier to use. > Are you sure that it's inconsistent? I just had a look and I don't see "configuration" anywhere, I believe it's pretty consistently called "configurification". Are you using the new v1.2? It could be that I had "configuration" in there somewhere, spotted and changed it, but didn't include it in the changelog. This is not a typo, it's a word I invented ages back and quite like... ;) > Could you add 'backup home folder' option there as well, maybe even > 'Backup µSD card'? I know it's slow but some users might find it > useful to backup some scripts they've created. I might also have > understood this wrong that backing up rootfs does this (but the files > are not easily accessible?) > "Backup home" Is actually already on my todo list, as it's something I've wanted to do, so yes, I definitely will add that, once I get the time. Backup MicroSD is a great suggestion, too, I'll put it on the todo list as well. > I also noticed that (Kubuntu intrepid, kde4) for some reason always > when I click a button on NeoTool the new view is opened behind another > open window. > That's odd, and to be honest I have absolutely no idea why it's happening - I'd guess that it's an issue with either zenity or kde4, or a combination of both, but I really don't know about that one! All I can really say is "that's not supposed to be happening" and "it doesn't do that for me!" (Fedora, gnome). Anybody who has a suggestion is welcome to add their $0.02! > > Great tool, thanks! > Ooooh, praise! You're very welcome! :) -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Fwd: [Bug 288747] Re: [needs-packaging] neotool]
Wow, cool! Does this mean that there's now a debian package? I just saw your other message about this, does this mean that the issues you were having are solved? Great stuff. It would be great if you could update the NeoTool wiki page with instructions on installing on debian / ubuntu. I don't run debian or ubuntu, so don't know much about their packaging systems... Regards, -Dale Pander wrote: > NeoTool package for Ubuntu > > > > > Subject: > [Bug 288747] Re: [needs-packaging] neotool > From: > Heikki Mäntysaari <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: > Fri, 31 Oct 2008 20:35:09 - > To: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > I made a package for Debian and uploaded it to mentors.debian.net, see > http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor- > pkglist?action=details;package=neotool > > Debian bug report: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi- > bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=504131 > > ** Changed in: ubuntu > Assignee: (unassigned) => Heikki Mäntysaari (heikki-mantysaari) >Status: New => In Progress > > ** Also affects: debian via >http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=504131 >Importance: Unknown >Status: Unknown > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
NeoTool - v1.2 available
All,
Just a quick note to announce a new version of NeoTool.
Life has interfered with my ability to work on this lately, so there are
only a couple of smallish changes:
- Changed information at pre-flash prompt to include instructions for
how to get to the NOR menu.
eliminated any mention of NAND, as everything can be flashed from NOR.
- bugfix - when user selects a filename under 'customize backup
filenames' and then presses cancel,
the selected filename was set to nothing.
- NeoTool now checks that the path of backup files exist, and attempts
to create it if it doesn't.
This allows you to organise your backups in a folder hierarchy, i.e
set the backup filename to:
/data/openmoko/backups/{date}/{image}_backup
and the {date} directory will be created by NeoTool, assuming
/data/openmoko/backups exists
and you have permission.
Info / Download link:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NeoTool
Enjoy,
-Dale
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Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Jelle De Loecker wrote: > > Dale Maggee schreef: >> Jelle De Loecker wrote: >> >>> I wonder if most people's need for a physical keyboard is a >>> consequence of the GTA02's small screen. (Well, it's too small to >>> use as a screen AND a keyboard at the same time, I think) >>> >>> Just make the screen big enough to use the virtual keyboard easily, >>> I think the iPhone proved it can work this way. >>> >>> For me, adding a keyboard will just add more bagage to the phone >>> which I really do not want. >>> >>> /Met vriendelijke groeten,/ >>> >>> *Jelle De Loecker* >>> Kipdola Studios - Tomberg >>> >>> >> The reason I want a physical keyboard is because I much prefer a >> keyboard with tactile feedback - you can feel the button, and you can >> feel it click down when you press it. Tactile feedback makes typing >> both faster and more accurate. These are things which a soft keyboard >> can never hope to provide. >> > > That's very true, and I did take it into consideration. > (It also made me think of some technology which WOULD supply tactile > feedback through touchscreens, something I read about a while ago and > found again here: http://www.redferret.net/?p=9533 ) > > Anyway, I understand why you would prefer a keyboard, but I do not > believe it can be made big enough for the GTA03 while not hindering > the aesthetics of the device. > That's an interesting article you pointed me to, but unfortunately it's only half way there - the ability to feel the key is probably more important than the 'click' feeling. A key has edges, and the feel of the key under your finger means you don't have to be looking at the keyboard to be able to type. Again, a soft keyboard can never achieve this. example: http://www.imate-shop.com/images/MOB0450a.jpg granted, we have a bigger screen, but there's no reason why the keyboard couldn't fold out from somewhere. I'm not really interested in what it looks like, I'll take functional over asthetically pleasing any day. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Jelle De Loecker wrote: > I wonder if most people's need for a physical keyboard is a > consequence of the GTA02's small screen. (Well, it's too small to use > as a screen AND a keyboard at the same time, I think) > > Just make the screen big enough to use the virtual keyboard easily, I > think the iPhone proved it can work this way. > > For me, adding a keyboard will just add more bagage to the phone which > I really do not want. > > /Met vriendelijke groeten,/ > > *Jelle De Loecker* > Kipdola Studios - Tomberg > The reason I want a physical keyboard is because I much prefer a keyboard with tactile feedback - you can feel the button, and you can feel it click down when you press it. Tactile feedback makes typing both faster and more accurate. These are things which a soft keyboard can never hope to provide. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
definitely 3) qwerty + touchscreen This shouldn't be too hard to do, I don't think it's too much to ask of OM - surely the keyboard could be a built-in USB keyboard, which would mean that all the software etc is already there. All we'd need is a way to disable the on-screen keyboard, something we'll want for bluetooth/USB keyboards on the GTA02 anyway... -Dale JW wrote: > Ok Community, > > vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone > > [also realise this is still a long time away and Freerunner is available to > buy > now!] > > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 > > *** > Please don't write endless pages about why - just indicate which one YOU want. > *** > > For myself my vote is > > 1) no, my HTC orbit experience was horrible (yes, i realise there are better) > 2) yes, my preferred user input method - intuitive, fast, flexible > 3) no, i think combo is too much to ask from OM right now > > ciao > JW > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: European Freerunner in USA?
Bryan DeLuca wrote: > On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 19:46:05 +0200 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >> I'm going to travel to the USA next month from Sweden. I will be in San >> Fransisco and Vegas. >> >> I would like to use my Freerunner as much as possible as a phone, so I >> have some questions: >> - Will gsm roaming with Telenor(Vodaphone) work well, or should I buy a >> temporary card in the states? >> - I have Huawei E220 and E270 3g (HSUPA) modems, do they work well in >> the states? How much will a temporary flat rate 3g card cost? >> >> >> -- >> Joakim Verona >> >> > > I'm not the best person to respond to this, but I think the most compatible > network would be T-mobile. Not sure on your roaming options. There are > several prepaid options from T-Mobile ($1/day, 10¢/minute, etc.) on their > site http://www.t-mobile.com and they include t-zones (limited internet > access). > > Hope this helps, > > Isn't it a hardware thing? I.e the GSM networks in the USA operate on a different frequency? will it work at all with any carrier? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: External wired small USB keyboard
Personally I'm waiting for this to come out: http://www.freedominput.com/site/index.php?Itemid=30&id=13&option=com_content&task=view it's not USB, but maybe it'll suit your needs. I emailled the address listed on that website a while back, I think he said it should start production in september, and that he'll email me when it's available (or close to). I'll announce it here if other people are interested... -Dale Pander wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm looking for a wired small USB keyboard to use on a Freerunner. I'm > looking for one: > - which is small in size, max 12 inch or 30 cm wide > - has qwerty layout > - has preferably no multi media buttons / hot keys > - has preferably no LEDs > - has a type A USB hub > - has a mini type B USB jack > > Especially the last requirement is hard to match (find). So far I'm > stuck with: > http://www.fentek-ind.com/kbmsm.htm > http://www.fentek-ind.com/kbmsmusbb2.htm > http://www.directron.com/kl51.html > http://www.directron.com/psk3100u.html > > Does any of you know of a keyboard matches more of the above requirements? > > Thanks, > > Pander > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is Openmoko working on their 'back to basics' plan?
John, Thank you very much, it's reassuring to hear these updates and to know that you guys are indeed working on it. I think that you'll make alot of people very happy if you keep updates like this coming! Don't let a couple of negative opinions worry you. Personally I've had times when I've screamed 'god damn OM!' to myself, although I do my best to refrain from making any negative comments like that in public because it's not constructive and I'd rather encourage you guys. But I think it's safe to say that many of us have been frustrated at one point or another by an apparent lack of progress towards a working phone in the past. Also, many of us were overjoyed when you made the 'back to basics' announcement, and therefore can't wait to see some results. Keeping us in the loop with whatever you can, even if it's very minimal, will stop people from being impatient and frustrated. This update is a very good thing, and I hope to see more of these updates (or, better, images / updated software!) as often as you can manage it! :) -Dale P.S: Boot time reduced by one minute already?!? nice work! :O John Lee wrote: > Dear community, > > http://onlinedev.blogspot.com/2008/10/is-openmoko-working-on-there-back-to.html > > And please read my comment below. I have to say I don't like opinions > like this but I will take it as a result of high expectation. We will > keep sending to the public list once we have something, commit to > public scm, etc. but we certainly won't do _weekly_ release. For now > please be patient and let the engineers work. > > > Now for the status update this week: > > Tick merged the qtopia echo patch (#1267), it works, no echo but the > audio sounds a little bit less 'vivid' (not sure if this is the right > word). He is now working on the touch screen usage, see > http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2008-October/002712.html > > Olv and Erin is working on reducing boot time. Currently it's reduced > from 2:35 (Om2008.9) to around 1:40. One minute less in one week, and > Olv just got back from hospital last Monday. We will merge this into > OE once we get it organized properly. > > Jeremy is working together with kernel guy (aka Matt Hsu) to look into > the possible improvement, namely take a screenshot and show it first > during resume. It's a common technique in mobile phone. > > Julian is working on the python loader. He is new to python but he > got very good helps here in the office such as Guillaume, etc. He > still got some distro work to finish so it's going to take a while > before he can work full time on this. > > Currently we have a major blocker #2071. It can be solved by update > EFL, but no icons will show up in illume. This seems to be a > different bug, but we are having an evas-native related issue on the > build server so the EFL packages are not updated correctly in > downloads.openmoko.org. This prevents people from confirming it and > fire another bug. > > EFL ABI changed along with the svn rev increment last week, so > Installer and Locations won't work without rebuilding. Although > people already got reassigned, but nobody will give Om2008 love except > us and holger, so we will fix the issues above and update testing repo > soon. > > > Regards, > John > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Keyboard
on 2007.2: Traceback (most recent call last): File "./fingerkeyboard.py", line 62, in import etk ImportError: No module named etk :( I also like the Idea, though, but some thoughts: - The fullscreen keyboard should also have a 'paste' button, so that when you select the field (i.e: a cursor appears), the fullscreen keyboard immediately pops up, you type what you want, and you press the 'ok / paste' button which makes the fullscreen keyboard dissappear and pastes the text you've entered into the text field. Maybe this could even be the enter key? - I'd prefer not having to go from portrait to landscape and back every time I have to type something - if this could be done in portrait mode somehow, that would be very nice. - if at all possible, making it terminal-friendly would also be a bonus. I'm thinking that certain keys (like the arrow keys) should immediately send that key signal, rather than having to arrow / paste. But then maybe the terminal isn't very friendly to a fullscreen keyboard... -Dale Leonti Bielski wrote: > Did not tested it yet, but I think a big keyboard is a good idea. > Big keyboard with a tiny text field (reasonably tiny :)) would be great to > rapid texting without any guessing system. > Leonti > > On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 3:28 PM, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > >> Nik Lutz wrote: >> >>> The code is a real hack - I see it as a proof of concept for my initial >>> >> idea: >> >>> The keyboard should have two modes. >>> - A fullscreen-mode with plenty of space for big buttons and a textfield. >>> - a minimized-mode with at least two buttons: one to switch to >>> fullscreen. The second to PASTE the text that was written in >>> fullscreen-mode to the target. >>> >> I've not tested your keyboard due to some python errors (etk.TextView >> wasn't recognized, and I had not time to workaround/fix it; however the >> idea is really nice to me. I'd like to get a keyboard exactly like that >> (and with a dictionary-based typo check like the illume standard >> keyboard does)! >> >> I think that just adding to the Illume keyboard the ability of going >> fullscreen (after rotating to landscape) with an its own text field to >> be used as a temporary text field would be cool! >> >> -- >> Treviño's World - Life and Linux >> http://www.3v1n0.net/ >> >> >> ___ >> Openmoko community mailing list >> community@lists.openmoko.org >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community >> >> > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Back to the basics: improving user experience
One thing I forgot to mention about 2007.2: Accelerometers don't work, which is kinda annoying. In terms of 2007.2 being maintained, I wouldn't hold your breath. SHR could be interesting, though... -Dale Giovanni wrote: > I'm also still using 2007.2, which is reasonably stable. > > I have the same usage/behavior as Dale Maggee wrote. > > I also hope that 2007.2 can be improved and maintained until there is a > really stable distro. > > > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 1:17 PM, Dale Maggee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > >> I'm still using 2007.2, because in my experience it does have the most >> solid phone/sms functionality. >> >> It's far from perfect, though: >> - Suspend / resume is a dog, and since it's not being worked on any more >> I'm doubtful that this will ever be fixed. I have suspend and resume >> turned off, and use the 'dim only, don't lock' option, which turns off >> and locks the screen (despite the label), but doesn't suspend it. This >> gives reasonable reliability, but means you're limited to about 4-6 >> hours of battery life. >> >> - hangs - after amassing quite a few SMS's and a large call history, it >> takes a *long* time to open the dialler or the messaging application. >> During this time it's sitting at 99% CPU utilization. It works, but you >> need to be patient. Thankfully the dialler seems to pop up quickly when >> you're recieving a call. >> >> - Lockups - after using it for a while, it seems to require rebooting >> about once every 2 days or so - it just seems to freeze for no apparent >> reason. This may be due to something I've done. >> >> I'm impressed by Qtopia and by FSO3, but both have caveats which for me >> meant using 2007.2. I'm not a fan of ASU / 2008.x at all, although I am >> about to give FDOM a try. >> >> -Dale >> >> Warren Baird wrote: >> >>> I must admit I never tried 2007.2 - but the things I read about it >>> >> suggested >> >>> that it also wasn't very stable - people recommended using Qtopia if you >>> wanted a stable phone experience. >>> >>> Does 2007.2 really provide a rock-solid phone/sms experience? >>> >>> Warren >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Johny Tenfinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 19:54, Warren Baird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Until I'm convinced those items are addressed, my $400 FR is going to >>>>> >>>>> >>>> remain turned off in my backpack, and my friends who bought iPhones will >>>> >>>> continue to laugh at me for 'wasting' my money on such a 'phone'. >>>> >> *please* >> >>>> give me some ammunition to use against them! >>>> >>>> Use the 2007.2, Luke! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> Openmoko community mailing list >>> community@lists.openmoko.org >>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community >>> >>> >> ___ >> Openmoko community mailing list >> community@lists.openmoko.org >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community >> >> > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Back to the basics: improving user experience
I'm still using 2007.2, because in my experience it does have the most solid phone/sms functionality. It's far from perfect, though: - Suspend / resume is a dog, and since it's not being worked on any more I'm doubtful that this will ever be fixed. I have suspend and resume turned off, and use the 'dim only, don't lock' option, which turns off and locks the screen (despite the label), but doesn't suspend it. This gives reasonable reliability, but means you're limited to about 4-6 hours of battery life. - hangs - after amassing quite a few SMS's and a large call history, it takes a *long* time to open the dialler or the messaging application. During this time it's sitting at 99% CPU utilization. It works, but you need to be patient. Thankfully the dialler seems to pop up quickly when you're recieving a call. - Lockups - after using it for a while, it seems to require rebooting about once every 2 days or so - it just seems to freeze for no apparent reason. This may be due to something I've done. I'm impressed by Qtopia and by FSO3, but both have caveats which for me meant using 2007.2. I'm not a fan of ASU / 2008.x at all, although I am about to give FDOM a try. -Dale Warren Baird wrote: > I must admit I never tried 2007.2 - but the things I read about it suggested > that it also wasn't very stable - people recommended using Qtopia if you > wanted a stable phone experience. > > Does 2007.2 really provide a rock-solid phone/sms experience? > > Warren > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Johny Tenfinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > >> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 19:54, Warren Baird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> >>> Until I'm convinced those items are addressed, my $400 FR is going to >>> >> remain turned off in my backpack, and my friends who bought iPhones will > >> continue to laugh at me for 'wasting' my money on such a 'phone'. *please* >> give me some ammunition to use against them! >> >> Use the 2007.2, Luke! >> >> > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Community newsletter, October 4th to 19th
as others have said, thanks alot for your work with these updates Minh! Great stuff! Minh Ha Duong wrote: > Hello everybody, > > welcome to the unofficial Openmoko Community newsletter, October 4th to 19th > issue. The two big news are the launch of opkg.org, an application directory, > and Openmoko engineering team focusing back to the basics on Improving user > experience. > > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates/October_19th%2C_2008#Applications > > Contents > > * 1 Images > * 2 Applications > * 3 Good fixes and discussed issues > * 4 Community > * 5 Outside Openmoko > > Images > > Things were rather quiet on the distribution front. Rasterman's October 11th > images (source) were put online. This is not really a distribution, but > rather a demonstration that illume runs well and is so beautiful, for others > distros to grab. We also saw daily SHR image builds online, no release yet > but available for testing. And Qi, the next bootloader, recently got resume > support.Testing shows that it is much faster than uboot indeed, but no > release yet either. > > Applications > > Everybody applauded when Tobias announced http://opkg.org , an online > directory of applications (think Freshmeat, Tucows...). The database is > community-driven, everybody can register and index applications. In the flow > of community developped utilities, I noticed: > > * the initial release of OpenMooCow, a nice, funny and useless bovine > noise simulator. > * Optimizations on Rotate. This is an interesting example of competition > and cooperation (community development, if you prefer), because there are > many versions being developed in parallel, with ideas jumping across all the > time. > * The Gestures GSoC project developper managed to convince his academic > instructors to let him code on the FreeRunner for his degree. Future > developments coming at http://AccelSense.org > * Auxlaunch is a very simple, finger-friendly application launcher and > window switcher for the Freerunner. It appears when the "AUX" button is > pressed. > > With respect to porting other applications to our favorite platform, I read > that Intel's made powertop actually runs on the FreeRunner. This is an very > handy utility that allows to measure and therefore optimize power usage. > Also: > > * FBReader an e-book reader programme now available for Debian and 2008.8 > * Sander ported Pingus the free lemmings clone, for OE based > distributions > (it was already available on Debian). > * In addition to minimo, openmoko-browser2, and midori, we saw a bunch of > light and fast web browsers announced on the mailing list: Fennec), Dillo > (ipk), NetSurf and links2. That makes about seven, working more or less well. > Choice, choice, choice... > * The same is happening for music players: pythm, openmoko-mediaplayer2, > qtopia media player, deforaOS-player, qmmp, sonata, quasar. Thomas's K. also > started a mediaplayer. So far I think that your best friend is mplayer from > the command line interface (and on 2008.8, I think that mplayer is directly > connected to OSS, so installing OSS compatibility packages probably help. And > removing pulseaudio also saves tons of CPU cycles) > > Good fixes and discussed issues > > Many good news: > > * There is a fix for ticket 2038 about Qtopia USSD requests, so that > dialing "*123" or "#4" should work soon. > * There is a fix for ticket 1024, the GSM keeps reregistering bug, a.k.a. > bouncing Calypso issue. The workaround is to prevent the modem from entering > deep sleep, and it has been commited to the QTopia images already. > * Powersaving patches landed in stable-2.6.26 on October 8th. Note to > application developpers: the best way to blank the screen to conserve power > is the fbdev-ioctl method. I think that xset s 5 should do it. Thanks to the > Harald and the Swisscom research project ! > * OM announced two hires: Ray Chao, to work full-time in Taipei on the > infrastructure, and Christopher Hall, a very experienced software engineer. > * Infrastructure-wise, unstable development of OM is moving back to OE. > > Too many bugs remain, see Test reports for example. Most of the grief heard > these days was about Digital Audio Playing and Wifi. I would like to make an > unrequested announcement for the sake of the good vertical communication: > Kernels currently has the APM power management interface is still compiled > in. This has been deprecated for years and is doomed to go away. Hopefully > apm -s will still work for suspend, but userspace applications that still use > the deprecated apm interface SHOULD take action, preferably sooner than > later. > > Community > > * Openmoko's engineers reunited for a 3 weeks workshop in Taipei. They > decided to focus back on the basics, that is to leave the Installer, > Locations, Diversity and Settings applications alone for a whil
Re: Back to the basics: improving user experience
arne anka wrote: >> ==Pim device== >> > > > imho that's exactly the kind of task openmoko did _not_ ask for. > I would respectfully disagree - Openmoko asked about "Improving user experience", and users are saying they want to experience PIM capabilities. > there are a lot of posts lately completely ignoring the point of "basics" > and "no eyecandy" I haven't seen anybody ask for pretty-looking PIM applications, people seem to be asking for *reliable* PIM applications. I'd call reliability and robustness "basic". > pim frinst is at it's best part of a middle tier, but rather of a > particular distribution -- This kind of comes into the "Should FSO merge be sped up?" debate, as I believe the framework has PIM stuff built into it. > and it's doable by community! > Agreed, it could be done by the community, but I don't see anyone doing it, and I'm not smart enough, nor do I have the time at the moment. > there are several task which require knowledge of the hardware and access > to nda'ed docs, which in turn means they are best or exclusively solved by > openmoko's limited forces. > Agreed. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Back to the basics: improving user experience
My 1/50th of a dollar... A lot of people have made some really good points and suggestions here. Here's what I'd like to see personally, in order of priority, with absolutely no consideration given to feasability or difficulty what I want ;) : 1. rock-solid phone / sms functionality, with rock-solid suspend and resume. I know that these are two seperate issues, but I see Suspend and resume as being a neccessary part of having it work as a daily-use, reliable phone (for the simple reason of battery life). Having it as a solid, daily-use phone is my biggest priority. 2. This also comes into the 'daily use phone' category: the echo / volume issues. Since settings which work for some people don't seem to work for others, I think that one way to sort this out might be to create a sensibly-labelled volume control (preferrably as a finger-usable GUI) which has the ability to load and store states. This has been suggested elsewhere 3. Sort out the Distros / Software stack. I agree with the comments that the FSO integration should be sped up. FSO seems very nice and solid to me, but unfortunately it's incomplete in terms of using it as a phone. The PIM database is the biggest thing missing here. I think that bringing the FSO framework into the main distro should be a priority, because this will allow you guys to organise your efforts better and remove duplication - why continue to work on something that's going to be phased out in X months? 4. Calendar / Alarm / PIM. I'd call this 'secondary phone functionality', in that it's the kind of functionality you see in pretty much any phone out there. A Reliable calendar application which lets you set meetings, reminders etc, and an alarm. The alarms / reminder alerts should work reliably, even if the Neo is suspended (i.e: come out of suspend mode to sound alarm or show a reminder). With regards to PIM, I'd like to see a way to synchronise my Neo's PIM database with some other source, like ActiveSync does. This doesn't have to be incredibly complicated, maybe just dumping the PIM database to a vcf file. The reason I want this is that whenever I flash a new distro I need to re-import my contacts, and I inevitably lose contacts which I've added to the Neo but which aren't anywhere else. Perhaps there's already a solution to this. 5. Pretty comes later. Stop caring about themes and snazzy visual effects. While everyone can agree that pretty is a nice thing, Stability should be the priority, not prettiness. Don't bother making themes and whatnot, just make the underlying software work reliably, then provide a way for us to make our own themes, and let the community worry about making themes. Once everything is solid, then you can worry about how pretty it is. Regards, -Dale John Lee wrote: > Hi, > > Like Wolfgang said in > http://n2.nabble.com/Weekly-Engineering-News-41-2008-td1336450.html > > We assembled a team to focus on improving the user experience. Here > is our todo list at the moment: > > * Reduce boot time. > > * Optimize the touch screen driver on freerunner for finger usage. > > * A generic python loader to enhance the start up time of python > scripts. > > * Work with system team to improve suspend/resume user experience. > > > I would like to ask the community: > > What do you want us to work on? > > > The idea is > > * We improve the current stack, not creating new features. > > * Prefer stuffs which could be brought over to gta03 instead of > gta02/om2008 specific. > > * won't work on om2007 stack. > > > So, tell us what you want, then the coding monkeys will start working! > :) > > > Regards, > John > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Weekly Engineering News 41/2008: back to the basics
Hello, boys and girls, This is your old pal Stinky Wizzleteats This is a song about a whale, No! This is a song about being happy! That's right! It's the Happy Happy Joy Joy song! Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Joy! I don't think you're happy enough, That's right! I'll teach you to be happy! I'll teach your grandmother to suck eggs! Now, boys and girls, let's try it again. Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Joy! If'n you ain't the granddaddy of all liars! Think of the little critters of nature... They don't know that they're ugly! That's very funny! A fly marrying a bumblebee! I told you I'd shoot! But you didn't believe me! Why didn't you believe me? Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Happy Happy Happy Happy Happy Happy Happy Happy Joy Joy Joy! Risto H. Kurppa wrote: > Hi! > > Just want to make sure everyone knows that the weekly engineering news > has been released again, see > http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td1336450|a1336450 > > I want to highlight this: > "We decided to focus our > engineering on just the basics, even less eye candy: Robust kernel, > fast boot time, basic telephony with great audio quality, powerful > configuration from the command line, hardware quality. That's it. > We will stop working on our Installer, Locations, Diversity and > Settings applications. We will get back to all this when the rest is > rock solid, but now is not the time. Feel free to pickup any of these > projects in the meantime" > > I suppose this is generally a good thing to let the community do what > it can do (as long as community has the tools and so on to do it) and > Openmoko focus on the core stuff. > > Comments? > > > > r > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [2008.X] Flashing the kernel live
Kelvie Wong wrote: > I was just wondering, is there a way to flash the kernel live (i.e. with the > software still running)? Is the boot partition (it's on the NAND Flash > somewhere) something I can just mount and override a file? Or do I have to > use dd? Or is there some trickery I can do with dfu-util? > > > > > I think that 'nandwrite' might be what you're looking for: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# nandwrite --help Usage: nandwrite [OPTION] MTD_DEVICE INPUTFILE Writes to the specified MTD device. -a, --autoplace Use auto oob layout -j, --jffs2 force jffs2 oob layout (legacy support) -y, --yaffs force yaffs oob layout (legacy support) -f, --forcelegacy force legacy support on autoplacement enabled mtd device -n, --noecc write without ecc -o, --oob image contains oob data -s addr, --start=addr set start address (default is 0) -p, --pad pad to page size -b, --blockalign=1|2|4 set multiple of eraseblocks to align to -q, --quiet don't display progress messages --helpdisplay this help and exit --version output version information and exit I wasn't able to get it to do much without a man page though... HTH, -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: g_file_storage
Christian Adams wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > moinmoin, > > did anyone manage to get the usb-gadget g_file_storage to work properly? > for me it's no problem to do: > > ifconfig usb0 down > rmmod cdc-ether > rmmod g_ether > modprobe g_file_storage file=<...> > > but what - at least for me - not works is: > > rmmod g_file_storage (modprobe -r g_file_storage) > > the shell i run this command in completely freezes and the module > gets not unloaded > > ciao, > morlac I see this problem if I try to switch to file storage mode from a script. If I run the commands from a terminal it works fine, but if i run it from a script it totally freezes the freerunner. I've also had limited success connecting it to machines in file storage mode: - Connected to my fedora box just fine, automounted, and popped up a nautilus window showing SD card contents - Connected to my mate's mac, and saw nothing at all - Connected to my mate's windoze box, and the device was detected as a USB storage device, but the drive didn't show up for some reason. I even looked in 'disk management' and it doesn't show up as a drive, so it's not a problem with partitions as far as I can tell. Before anybody asks, yes, my SD card is formatted as Fat32, not ext2: Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/mmcblk0p1 43 81821 7973376 b Win95 FAT32 I've found the best way to switch back to usb ethernet mode is to do it the windows way: reboot! -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Idea for Openmoko application: seismic sensor network
I tried to compile BOINC for my freerunner, without any luck, a while ago - I wanted to run [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes, I'm insane... ;) Vasco Névoa wrote: > Now that our phones have accelerometers and are Internet capable, how > about contributing to the "Quake Catcher Network"? > http://qcn-web.stanford.edu/Overview.html > > It is based on an open source project called BOINC > (http://boinc.berkeley.edu/) and therefore I think OM would be a very > nice addition to the sensor network. > > Maybe the "Gestures Daemon" could be expanded into something a little > more generic (preferably integrated into FSO's Dbus API) and could > filter the information, separating events by classes, like "Rotation of > the Down vector", "Gesture", and "Seismic Vibration" (which are all > mathematically different)... and so each client app (Rotate, Gestures > Listener, BOINC, etc.) would pick up on the desired class of data. > > Just an idea... :) > > Vasco Névoa. > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: NeoTool v1.1 is available
The rootfs is not backed up using dfu-util. It produces a flashable image which works fine. I have tested the dfu-upload stuff, but I have not attempted to flash my phone with the files I get from this, so I can't comment Neotool relies on dfu-util - if dfu-util is broken, neotool will produce dodgy images. When I use neotool to backup, I backup the rootfs and the kernel via the scp method. This works fine and produces flashable images - I've tested this by flashing both rootfs and kernel numerous times. Regards -Dale Shawn "prjktdtnt" Thompson wrote: > Tomasz Melcer wrote: > >> On 2008-09-17, Dale Maggee wrote: >> >> >>> - Backup has been radically enhanced, and now supports configurable >>> backup filenames, as well as the ability to backup everything via a >>> combination of the mkfs-jffs2 and dfu -U methods. >>> >>> >> Does the dfu upload work for you? I tried to do some uploads, but either >> dfu-util returned an error, or even if it didn't, the backup was >> unusable --- there were filesystem errors after flashing FR with them. >> >> Tomasz Melcer >> >> >> ___ >> Openmoko community mailing list >> community@lists.openmoko.org >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community >> >> > Tomasz, > From what I remember reading, somewhere in the wiki, that dfu-util > has a bug in the upload feature currently that causes that. > > -Shawn > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: NeoTool v1.1 is available [OT]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Dale Maggee wrote: > >> [1] http://users.on.net/~antisol/neotool >> [2] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NeoTool >> >> > > > Oh ... you're antisol :) > > I'm roguetr, nice to see you friend ;) > > hehe > > Sarton > I am indeed. ;) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: NeoTool v1.1 is available
Shawn "prjktdtnt" Thompson wrote: > > Dale, > This is some great work! Thank you for letting me work with you on > this to support multiple devices. > -Shawn > Thanks! And thanks for your help and suggestion! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: NeoTool v1.1 is available
Daniel Hedblom wrote: > Looks really nice and seems friendly enough for the beginners. Its > amazing what one can do with bash =) > > //danielh > Thanks! :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
