Re: Windows CE on freerunner

[Kalle Happonen]

Jeff Sadowski wrote:



>  the whole reason to buy a
> freerunner is the fact that they support linux.


Isn't the whole reason to buy a freerunner, that you are free to do 
whatever you like with it? :) (the name could give a hint...)

Kalle Happonen

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Re: Illume / ASU on GTA01 - Video

[Kalle Happonen]

thomasg wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> there are still many people who don't know about ASU, and about the 
> change in the Openmoko distribution - and there are not many videos, too.
> So I decided to do a small video to show what it looks like, what it 
> behaves like and some of the next-generation apps.
>
> I took my Neo (still gta01), flashed one of the qtopia-x11 images[1] 
> (that's what ASU is at moment!) and played around.
> It's far away from being complete, it's not perfect and it surely 
> doesn't show what will come, but I hope it will show you what the 
> softwareguys at openmoko are working on and what the future will look 
> alike.
> Here it is: http://videos.gstaedtner.net/openmoko/illume_intro.mkv (16 
> MB, ~3.5 min)
> I hope you don't mind getting no crappy flashvideo this time, but a 
> 500 kbps h264 with vorbis sound.
> Feel free to download, share, and whatever you want.
>
> P.S. Excuse my bad english, I'm not a native speaker :(

Thanks for the great vid. It's exciting to see what we'll be able to get 
our hands on. And epic music :). And my 2 cents (eurocents), 
downloadable real video >> flash in most cases.

Kalle


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Re: resolution preferences??

[Kalle Happonen]

Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote:
> On 6/6/08, NeilBrown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> On Fri, June 6, 2008 3:39 pm, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> we can just drive the vga screen at qvga. no need for scaling - just
>>> change the
>>> output at the lcd controller level. but it is a waste to pay for a vga
>>> screen
>>> when we won't use it. also it does look "blocky". it isn't about glamo or
>>> not -
>>> it's separate to glamo entirely. simply - how important is a vga screen...
>>> really? how many people out there can really see the difference? be really
>>> honest. stop thinking "my specs are bigger than your specs". scan u REALLY
>>> see
>>> all the pixels on a vga screen of that size. i bet to most people its all
>>> a
>>> blur - a qvga screen looks identical to them. only to a minority who have
>>> very
>>> good eyesight does it really make a difference, but this is just my "bet".
>>> i'm
>>> asking the question - and hoping for real honest answers.
>>>   
>> Well, it's hard to know without having an actual device to look at, but
>> I'll try
>>
>> My notebook has a 15 inch 1920x1200 monitor which comes to 147dpi.
>> The Freerunner is 285dpi, the pixels are very close to half the width/
>> height of my pixels.
>>
>> So at first I thought "wow, that's tiny.  I don't think I need them *that*
>> small" - and I have better than average eye sight.
>>
>> Then I resized my browser to 640x480 and found I could read it quite
>> well, though lots of web pages don't quite fit.
>> I took a screenshot of the window and displayed it at 50% in the GIMP.
>> So presumably that is how the image could look on the Freerunner.
>> 
>
> No. Now you need to zoom 2x. Then compare the original with this.
> They should occupy the same amount of space on your screen, but
> the "QVGA" should only have half the pixels.
>
>   
No again :). Someone has mentioned this before, but I thought I'd clear 
this up since it's come up a few times. QVGA stands for Quarter VGA 
(320*240 = 75kpix), so it's 1/4 of the pixels of real VGA (640*480 = 
300kpix). Half the height and you have half the pixels, after that half 
the width and 1/4 remains.


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Re: comparing Apples and Oranges $199 iPhone Freerunner GTA02

[Kalle Happonen]

Hello,
I won't coment on the techical specs, but the pricing is in no way 
comparable. The iPhone v2 might be 199$, but that's with a 2 year AT&T 
subscription. If you want a real comparison of the real device price, at 
least double the iPhone price. There was some country where Apple had to 
sell the original iPhone separately too because of the law (france? 
gremany?), and then it was priced 799€ or thereabouts iirc. So to 
compare the actual phone price, I think iPhone is even more expensive.

Cheers,
Kalle

Ron K. Jeffries wrote:
>
> [I trust this will not initiate a flame war.] Please?
>
> iPhone v2 announced today. I'd like to understand
> on a hardware basis ONLY (I grok the value of
> free and open source) how does
> the entry level $199 iPhone with 4GB
> compare with Freerunner GTA02.
>
> where I get lost is how much RAM iPhone
> has vs Freerunner. I realize I can buy
> high capacity microSD flash card to match
> iPhone flash capacity
>
> are these assertions correct?
>
> Apple has:
>
> -- 3G data [much faster than Freeruner's GPRS]
> -- faster processor
> -- larger physical screen size (but about the same dpi?)
> -- 2 megapixel camera
> -- proximity sensor (knows when held to face, can dim screen)
>
> the two smart phones are aprox equal on
> -- wi-fi
> -- accelerometer
> -- bluetooth
>
> Ron K. Jeffries
> http://www.retaggr.com/Card/RonKJeffries
>
>
> 
>
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Re: comparing Apples and Oranges $199 iPhone Freerunner GTA02

[Kalle Happonen]

arne anka wrote:
>> It's 8GB not 4 and it's $199 with a 2yr contract.  Regular retail prices
>> have yet to be announced.
>> 
>
> as i understand, 199 is apple's price -- providers may subsidise the  
> iphone, too.
>   
No, 199$ is a operator subsidised price.

from
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/09/the-cost-of-the-199-iphone-10-more-per-month-for-data/

"According to a press release from AT&T, the carrier will no longer give 
a portion of monthly usage fees to Apple. Instead carriers will pay 
Apple a subsidy for each phone sold, in order to bring the price from 
$399 down to $199 for the 8 Gigabyte model."

later in the same
"Now Apple will get its money, say $500, up front and it no longer has 
to police what people do with them."
which I guess is a fair estimate.

What this means is of course significantly higher monthly fees.

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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear - what market

[Kalle Happonen]

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:16:40 + "Jorge ." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
>
>   
>> Robert Taylor wrote:
>> 
>>> On the new Iphones, you HAVETO get a 2 year contract.  
>>> If you decide to quit you will pay a fee that will total up greater than 
>>> the $600 the phone is worth.
>>>   
>> The first iPhone was released june 29/2007 and the first hacked that allow
>> you to use it with any operator was announced on july 9/2007. It will happen
>> again and unlocked iPhones 3G will be available, it does not matter if the
>> first bunch are stolen, second hand or refurbished, it short time everyone
>> will be able to buy an iPhone 3G without contract for almost the same price
>> than it contract. Then we will be able to compare unsubsidized iphones with
>> moko. until that moment lets end the flame :-) but if I am right the iPhone
>> will be cheaper even unsubsidized. (although i would buy a moko anyway)
>> 
>
> not so simple. i think he business plan is changing because before this
> happened with the 1st iphone. people could buy without contract. it was 
> assumed
> that the phone lock would force people to get a contract anyway and apple bore
> the risk by losing out on their cut of the carrier's revenue (at&t). so they
> sold it at $399 or $499 etc. and din't get any money from at&t after that.
>
> now it changes with the 3g iphone. you must sign up when you buy. sure - you
> can now take that phone, unlock it, re-sell it, but you are stuck with a
> contract you must keep paying for... with no phone to use on that contract
> unless you buy another phone - outright. there will be contract termination
> clauses if you want to cancel then and this will help cover the subsidy - of
> not completely cover it and then some.
>   
This is how I've understood it too, so this means there would be no 
"cheap" unlocked iPhones on the market in any significant volume. But 
the next thing to consider is what market/audience is the main target of 
OM. It seems some places (US) you'll end up to pay the same for the 
contract with or without a subsidised phone, which makes OM pricey 
compared to other options.

In many places in europe however you can get much cheaper contracts 
without an included phone. In Finland (which is a best case scenario, 
granted) for example, I would never touch a phone+subscription combo, 
partly thanks to a good legislation. So in many (most?) countries in 
europe OM + a contract could be significantly cheaper than iPhone.

I can't say about the asian market, but I think the imporant thing to 
consider where the most phones are expected to be sold. Another thing to 
consider is the target audience of GTA02. Are people who consider 
getting GTA02 also considering iPhone, or is it more of a geek/hacker 
(GTA02) - "ooh look at me, I'm so trendy" (iPhone) split, in which case 
the problem isn't a big deal to begin with.


> sure - some (a very few) phones will somehow be smuggled from the factory or
> from shipments before they get to an apple or at&t or other carrier store, and
> some may be sold "under the counter" without contract - but i guarantee that
> that likely is a business losing proposition for anyone as they get a rebate
> once they sign you on a contract. selling without a contract will mean hey 
> have
> to jack up the price to cover the lost rebate money.
>
> as such - legal, legitimate and easy to get 3g iphones WITHOUT contract are
> going to be much more than $199.
>
>   
 furthermore the freedom, there is a war for the smartphones market and a
 freephone have to be competitive  in price, not only in quality and
 philosophy. 
 
> This is only true if you do what you are insisting on doing, comparing 
>   
>>> things that are not of equal value. While it is fine for consumers to 
>>> be ignorant of these facts and actually think your argument is valid, 
>>> it's not correct on this thread as you are clearly educated and 
>>> understand the reality of the situation.
>>>   
>> not equal value? Moko, iPhone, iRiver, Blackberry... we are talking about
>> smartphones, and money is money. If you buy an orange, and apple or a pinable
>> you pay with money!! every fruit have advantages and disadvantages, but you
>> pay anyway
>>
>> _
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>> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_photos_022008
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>
>   


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Re: Sillyness: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

[Kalle Happonen]

Michael Kluge wrote:
>> 7. Apple currently defines the PDA/mobile marketplace.
>> 
>
> No, the smartphone market is dominated by the Blackberry.
>   
Dominate and define are different things. Blackberry might dominate 
(only in US though), but now Apple has the new cool thing, and every 
manufacturer from Samsung to Nokia make releases of similar models at 
the same time. So Apple does define the smartphone market for a given 
cusomer segment.

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Accessing the freerunner filesystem

[Kalle Happonen]

Hi all,
I was wondering what the easiest way to access freerunner's filesystem 
from a computer. Or just copy over files. If i got the wlan up, it would 
be one way, but for that I apparently need to write the wpa supplicant 
conf, and I prefer not doing that on the phone :). I could probalby just 
make a new image with the files included, but is there an easier way? I 
could probably copy it over to the flash card on the laptop, but that 
also means removing the battery and sim for every change.

Cheers,
Kalle



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Re: Accessing the freerunner filesystem

[Kalle Happonen]

Ah, how could I have been so blind and missed that part. Thanks, just 
what I needed.

Cheers,
Kalle

arne anka wrote:
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking
>
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Re: Import Contacts

[Kalle Happonen]

Hi,
Brian C wrote:
> Brian C wrote:
> [a long error message because he didn't run the script from the OM terminal]
>
> Ok, so the script runs now that I realize it must be run from the OM
> terminal.  However, it appears to have entered all "null" contacts and
> so far none of them appear to have any actual contact info in them
>   
I ran into the same problem, but I did get them in now with the script. 
I had two issues actually. The easiest to try
 is to remove the empty lines between the entries in the vCard file, and 
have them all in a long jumble. That solved my last problem.

I did have another problem when I played around with the contacts in 
Evolution on the desktop. I started by exporting the contacts as vCard 
from Wammu. Evolution refused to read those  v2.1 vCards. I then 
exported it as ldif from wammu, and had to make a small change in the 
entries so that evolution read them correctly (adding a cn or smth). 
AFAIK the openmoko contacts is also based on evolution so there might be 
similar problems.

When I tried to import Wammu vCards,  they showed up as null entries on 
openmoko. When I exported the contacts as vCard (3.0) from evolution, 
and removed the empty lines in the vCard file, I could import them to 
openmoko with the script. I'm not sure if the new vCard format helped any. 


Hope it helps,
Kalle

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Re: MokSec - The Security Framework

[Kalle Happonen]

Hello,
I've only had my freerunner for a week or so, so I'm not too into the 
security aspects yet. One thing I did notice was of course passwordless 
root login. Now over usb this can be acceptable, but if this is possible 
over wifi (I haven't actually tested), it needs the firewall / make it 
listen only to the usb.

In addition to that, a separate encrypted partition for /root (or /home 
if the account will changed to a non-privileged user) could be nice, but 
maybe too heavy and battery draining?

In addition to that, I'd say all linux security administration best 
practices should be at least considered, including automatic security 
updates.

After the basic security is in good shape, one could move on to fun 
things like phone lock/unlock/shutdown with an sms, personal data 
backups / remote removal... the possibilities! :)

Cheers,
Kalle

Yorick Moko wrote:
> This mail was posted on the devel list
> (http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-July/003594.html).
> Thought it would interest a lot of people who are not subscribed to
> that list:
>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> a few months ago we have planned to improve the security of our beloved
> Neo, after we have read about desires of the community regarding to the
> security issue.
>
> And here we are. Today I will present you our project MokSec.
>
> What is MokSec?
> ===
>
> MokSec is framework which target is to improve the security of the mobile
> devices which are based on OpenMoko (and other frameworks which are running on
> Neos)
>
> What is our main focus at the moment?
> =
>
> The main focus is the encryption over GSM. This is very complicated issue and
> for this we searching developer which are willing to work with us on this
> interesting project.
>
> What are the other components?
> ==
>
> At the moment we only working on a phone firewall, which will be
> blocking/accepting incoming calls. Later one we will add other projects or
> developer will be able to add their projects.
>
> Were you can find more informations?
> 
>
> http://moksec.networld.to : The main page
> http://moko.networld.to   : The git repositories
> http://networld.to/mailman/listinfo/moksec-public : The mailinglist
>
> We hope that a lot of people will work with us on the security issue.
>
> Happy programming
>
> Alex Oberhauser
>
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Re: Import Contacts

[Kalle Happonen]

Andreas Dalsgaard wrote:
> 2008/7/12 Al Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>   
>> On Friday 11 July 2008, Kalle Happonen wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Brian C wrote:
>>>   
>>>> Brian C wrote:
>>>> [a long error message because he didn't run the script from the OM
>>>> terminal]
>>>>
>>>> Ok, so the script runs now that I realize it must be run from the OM
>>>> terminal.
>>>> 
>> It might work from an ssh session if you run:
>>dbus-launch scriptname
>> I haven't tried this though - just guessing based on similar behaviour from
>> gconftool-2
>>
>> 
>>>> However, it appears to have entered all "null" contacts and
>>>> so far none of them appear to have any actual contact info in them
>>>> 
>
> If you do not want to delete all the "null" contacts by hand I've made
> a script(attached as remove_all_contacts.py) based on Wurps script
> which removes all contacts in your addressbook. It should be pretty
> easy to modify so that it only deletes "null" contacts.
>
>   
>>> I ran into the same problem, but I did get them in now with the script.
>>> I had two issues actually. The easiest to try
>>>  is to remove the empty lines between the entries in the vCard file, and
>>> have them all in a long jumble. That solved my last problem.
>>>   
>> Blank line removal should be a one-liner - if only I were more familiar with
>> python ;-)
>> 
>
> Take a quick look at the attached import_contacts.py script, it is
> based on Al Johnson modification to Wurps script.
>
>   
Hah, thanks for fixing the script. I almost feel ashamed for not 
spending a few minutes to fix it up, but just did vim magic on my 
contacts files :). And thanks for the contact remover too!
>>> I did have another problem when I played around with the contacts in
>>> Evolution on the desktop. I started by exporting the contacts as vCard
>>> from Wammu. Evolution refused to read those  v2.1 vCards. I then
>>> exported it as ldif from wammu, and had to make a small change in the
>>> entries so that evolution read them correctly (adding a cn or smth).
>>> AFAIK the openmoko contacts is also based on evolution so there might be
>>> similar problems.
>>>
>>> When I tried to import Wammu vCards,  they showed up as null entries on
>>> openmoko. When I exported the contacts as vCard (3.0) from evolution,
>>> and removed the empty lines in the vCard file, I could import them to
>>> openmoko with the script. I'm not sure if the new vCard format helped any.
>>>   
>> Interesting...I remember having similar problems with OpenXchange a couple of
>> years ago. It assumed v3 and didn't check the version in the vCard itself.
>> You had to pick which interface to use depending on the vCard version. i
>> wonder if Evolution Data Server is doing something similar?
>>
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Re: MokSec - The Security Framework

[Kalle Happonen]

thomasg wrote:
> On 7/14/08, *Kalle Happonen* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I've only had my freerunner for a week or so, so I'm not too into the
> security aspects yet. One thing I did notice was of course
> passwordless
> root login. Now over usb this can be acceptable, but if this is
> possible
> over wifi (I haven't actually tested), it needs the firewall / make it
> listen only to the usb.
>
>  
> There's no need for a firewall at all (in fact it's probably the worst 
> idea).
> Just set a root password (you're probably a win user, the command is 
> simply "passwd") and it'll be fine.
>  
What an insult! *slap* :P. No I'm not a windows user. and I can set the 
root password on my device, but defaults matter. And they matter a lot 
if openmoko will become more mass-market. A firewall migth be a bit 
heavy, I agree, every watt and cycle should try to be saved, but making 
dropbear just listen to the usb interface would be a pretty good 
compromise, if that is possible.

However, later on an easily configurable firewall would be almost 
essential imho. Connecting to the phone (any port) over the wifi should 
(almost?)never be allowed as default. Even if the point with the phone 
is that users can do what they want, it doesn't mean that the apps they 
install shouldn't be protected. And a firewall is almost the only viable 
way. There's no easy way of making all the apps listen to just one 
interface, and while host.allow/deny is more lightweight than a 
firewall, those don't allow distinguishing of interface.

>
> In addition to that, a separate encrypted partition for /root (or
> /home
> if the account will changed to a non-privileged user) could be
> nice, but
> maybe too heavy and battery draining?
>
>  
> Imho it's not needed to encrypt the whole system.
> Would be the better choice to have some crypto-containers for the 
> files that really need to be secured (phonebook, messages, important 
> documents). We had some discussion in IRC a while ago and my idea would
No, not the whole system. But well the user homedir would be basically 
what we want to protect, and if it was on it's own partition, there is 
kernel support for it already.
> be to have that containers and a daemon in background who handles 
> encryption/decryption, asks for passwords if needed and makes sure 
> that applications who want access to a encrypted container get it 
> (e.g. dialer wants to look up a number in the phonebook).
> This way the containers can stay decrypted while the phone is on and 
> access is granted dynamically (as needed).
I think completely dynamic decryption would be too cumbersone to use. If 
you mean that it would need an unlock for every received sms (to get the 
contact behind the number) and phone call, it's just unfeasible. If you 
want to protect the en/decryption key, it needs a passphrase that is 
long enough to be of any benefit. The other option is a PKI enabled SIM, 
which would be cool. Hence it should be unlocked only once, at bootup. 
The sim pin could also be saved on the encrypted partition (maybe the 
pin itself again encrypted with the passphrase, so it's not accessible 
easily at runtime) so that the user only needs to authenticate once to 
use the phone. There could be then options to forget the encryption key 
either locally or via a "magic sms".
> Yeah, it's a little much effort, but there is no security without it.
> If you'd encrypt the whole rootfs you'd have it decrypted the whole 
> time the phone is on (otherwise nothing would work), what means, the 
> security is gone.
No it doesn't. Everything NEEDS to be decrypted automagically when the 
phone is on. Otherwise it's just unusable. The whole system shouldn't be 
encrypted, that's just waste.  But having a personal area decrypted at 
startup means that only you can access it at bootup, and one can add the 
option of remotely disabling access to it. That is very much security, 
way more than phones usually have nowadays, even more than 
laptops/desktops, but not too much to make it hard/annoying to use.
> Well, that's only a part of a possible security framework, but this 
> are only some thoughts.
>  
>
> In addition to that, I'd say all linux security administration best
> practices should be at least considered, including automatic security
> updates.
>
>  
> It's a standard linux system with a lightweight, but still standard, 
> packet management, so that's how it already is handeled (well, without 
> the automatic, but I don't like automatic updating anyway).
>
The fact that it has package 

Re: MokSec - The Security Framework

[Kalle Happonen]

arne anka wrote:
>> How would being root help somebody decrypt a filesystem?  Accessing an
>> encrypted filesystem should depend only on having the correct key.
>> 
>
> well, to be really usefull the fs should be mounted transparently (hacking  
> in the passphrase on every access seems utterly tedious with that tiny  
> keyboard -- and would probably add to the exposure risk).
depends on what you mean "on every access". If it's once per startup, I 
wouldn't think it's too much. How often do you reboot the phone?


Cheers,
Kalle

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Re: MokSec - The Security Framework

[Kalle Happonen]

arne anka wrote:
>> wouldn't think it's too much. How often do you reboot the phone?
>> 
>
> with a battery uptime of about 8h -- at least once a day, because the fr  
> usually silently shuts down.
> on weekends more frequently because i play around and something crashes or  
> so.
>   
Well, this wasn't available now, was it? :). Since these are only plans, 
and afaik the powersave functionality will be vastly improved, that 
argument is hopefully invalid when the encryption is available.

Kalle

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Re: MokSec - The Security Framework

[Kalle Happonen]

Tilman Baumann wrote:
> Paul Jimenez wrote:
>   
>> Alex Oberhauser wrote:
>> 
>>> Bumbl wrote:
>>>   
>>>   
 It would be more important to not run everything as root I think
 
 
>>> This will be also a main focus. When we receive the Freerunners, we will see
>>> how fast we can change this bad state.
>>>
>>>   
>>>   
>> Personally, I'd be more interested in an encrypted filesystem so that I 
>> can worry less about snoopy people getting access to my personal data if 
>> I lose my phone or it's stolen.  How many 'main focuses' are you allowed 
>> ? :)
>> 
>
> Can we use the SIM-Card to decrypt stuff?
> It's after all a smart card. :)
>
> Would be cool if we could store a crypto key on the SIM, which it will 
> only release if you provide the right SIM.
>   
I don't think that's doable with normal SIMs. But there are places where 
you can get SIM cards with built in encyption/decryption keys, and a 
certificate (PKI). This is possible at least in Finland, but not widely 
used.  If you had the PKI enabled SIM, I'd say it wouldn't only be cool, 
it would be THE way to go, as far as security and ease of use goes. :)


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Re: MokSec - The Security Framework

[Kalle Happonen]

Jan de Haan wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Kalle Happonen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> But there are places where
>> you can get SIM cards with built in encyption/decryption keys, and a
>> certificate (PKI).
>> 
>
> I agree. Would you care to elaborate (link)?
>
> Sincerely,
>
>   
Sure, the only one I know about directly is this, it's coordinated by 
the Finninsh government, and naturally only available in finland.
http://www.vrk.fi/vrk/home.nsf/pages/FE039B4246B8FED9C22572450036E7E6?opendocument


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Re: MokSec - The Security Framework

[Kalle Happonen]

Tilman Baumann wrote:
> Kalle Happonen wrote:
>   
>> Jan de Haan wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Kalle Happonen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>   
>>>   
>>>> But there are places where
>>>> you can get SIM cards with built in encyption/decryption keys, and a
>>>> certificate (PKI).
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> I agree. Would you care to elaborate (link)?
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>>   
>>>   
>> Sure, the only one I know about directly is this, it's coordinated by 
>> the Finninsh government, and naturally only available in finland.
>> http://www.vrk.fi/vrk/home.nsf/pages/FE039B4246B8FED9C22572450036E7E6?opendocument
>> 
>
> I wish more governments would be so progressive. *g*
> We in Germany are botching around on this idea for years with apparently 
> no result. But at least our politicians have the will to implement 
> anonymous signatures, which is rather cool.
> Sometimes you just want to prove that you are real, and not who you 
> actually are.
>
> Well, off topic... Congrats Finland. ;)
>
>   
Well it looks cool, but in practice... there's maybe 1 service that 
accepts these.. maybe. And the operators are clueless about it. I agree, 
it's great to have this infrastructure, but without services, it's just 
a virtual finnish penis




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Re: MokSec - The Security Framework

[Kalle Happonen]

thomasg wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 5:22 PM, arne anka <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
> > Of course you can create another user, as you are used to on any
> unix
> > system.
> > It just doesn't ship with one because the distro comes in
> ready-to-deploy
> > images, not with a installer like the binary-distro-people are
> used to.
>
> sure? i think it possible that some things won't work when
> non-root ...
>
>
> Of course some things won't work - if they would, there would be no 
> need for a special root account.
> Basically all the tools someone would use without a terminal should 
> work (dialer, contacs, ...) no matter what stack is used.
> The daemons that need root access run in background and can be 
> controlled by userspace-programs without root-access.
>
> If of course would take a loginmanager or similar to use a user with 
> password at startup, because currently the user root is automatically 
> logged in. Should be easy to "fix".
Even running only critical things as root, and most stuff on a 
no-password unprivileged account would be better. But an user account 
with a password a would of course be better. The I'd say that the PIN 
could almost be saved somewhere, to avoid the need for a double log-in.

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Re: MokSec - The Security Framework

[Kalle Happonen]

thomasg wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Kalle Happonen <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>  
>
> What an insult! *slap* :P. No I'm not a windows user. and I can
> set the
> root password on my device, but defaults matter. And they matter a lot
> if openmoko will become more mass-market. A firewall migth be a bit
> heavy, I agree, every watt and cycle should try to be saved, but
> making
> dropbear just listen to the usb interface would be a pretty good
> compromise, if that is possible.
>
>  
> Ok, sorry, that was a too mean joke :P
I forgive you :)
> The situation with no root password set is of course not bearable, but 
> I'm pretty sure that this issue will be solved in a consumer-ready 
> release.
> What I'd imagine would be a kind of "first-run-guide", that "forces" 
> (or allows, however you want :) ) the user to do all the important 
> settings at the first run of the phone (could be used for backup 
> purposes, too, e.g. load an xml-file with the settings).
> Would make the life way easier for newbies.
>
That would make sense yes. And since it's a pretty complex device, a 
first-run setup is almost needed anyway.
>
> However, later on an easily configurable firewall would be almost
> essential imho. Connecting to the phone (any port) over the wifi
> should
> (almost?)never be allowed as default. Even if the point with the phone
> is that users can do what they want, it doesn't mean that the apps
> they
> install shouldn't be protected. And a firewall is almost the only
> viable
> way. There's no easy way of making all the apps listen to just one
> interface, and while host.allow/deny is more lightweight than a
> firewall, those don't allow distinguishing of interface.
>
>  
> A firewall is always a more or less big piece of software, always not 
> the best for performance, and always a security risk (if it's not 
> dedicated). It also is not possible to do a easy and _good_ 
> configuration, so however it's done, it's always suboptimal.
> There are not too much services running, and all of them are open 
> source software, so that is imho not that a big deal.
>
iptables fits into a small kernel, that's not big software :). It might 
have some performance hits, but with these traffic amounts it shouldn't 
matter. The big but is of course the frontend to it. And open source 
software isn't immune to vulnerabilities :). Security patches help, but 
if possible, I'd still go for a firewall.
>
>
> >
> > In addition to that, a separate encrypted partition for
> /root (or
> > /home
> > if the account will changed to a non-privileged user) could be
> > nice, but
> > maybe too heavy and battery draining?
> >
> >
> > Imho it's not needed to encrypt the whole system.
> > Would be the better choice to have some crypto-containers for the
> > files that really need to be secured (phonebook, messages, important
> > documents). We had some discussion in IRC a while ago and my
> idea would
> No, not the whole system. But well the user homedir would be basically
> what we want to protect, and if it was on it's own partition, there is
> kernel support for it already.
> > be to have that containers and a daemon in background who handles
> > encryption/decryption, asks for passwords if needed and makes sure
> > that applications who want access to a encrypted container get it
> > (e.g. dialer wants to look up a number in the phonebook).
> > This way the containers can stay decrypted while the phone is on and
> > access is granted dynamically (as needed).
> I think completely dynamic decryption would be too cumbersone to
> use. If
> you mean that it would need an unlock for every received sms (to
> get the
> contact behind the number) and phone call, it's just unfeasible.
> If you
> want to protect the en/decryption key, it needs a passphrase that is
> long enough to be of any benefit. The other option is a PKI
> enabled SIM,
> which would be cool. Hence it should be unlocked only once, at bootup.
> The sim pin could also be saved on the encrypted partition (maybe the
> pin itself again encrypted with the passphrase, so it's not accessible
> easily at runtime) so that the user only needs to authenticate once to
> use the phone. There could be then options to forget the
> encryption key
> either locally or via 

Re: Anyone using FR as a phone?

[Kalle Happonen]

Hello,
Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Diego Fernández Durán escribió:
>   
>> I use the FR as a phone.
>>
>> And I trying to figure out where can I apply my C, C++, Gtk knowledge to
>> help in the development.
>>
>> A list of "small things that must be done" will be appreciated, so
>> anybody of us can use our free time to read the code, write a small
>> patch and summit it to a om developer. :)
>>
>>   
>> 
>
> I have using it also as a phone, almost as soon as I get one. It works 
> fine. After a while I reflash it and screw it, but seems nothing 
> serious.  I will play with it tomorrow finding a solution.
>
>   
I also use it as a phone. Even with all the glitches it's better than my 
old one which I had by accident manhandled over a long time :).

For me it works ok. The main problem is that now and then, after a boot, 
I can't call or receive calls even if I seem to be connected. Another 
boot usually solves this. With some kernel/image combination, I also had 
the problem that the gsm doesn't work after it goes to sleep... I have 
heard that my sound quality is poor though, but I haven't done further 
testing.

Cheers.
Kalle

> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
>
>   
>> El dom, 13-07-2008 a las 10:11 +0200, Yorick Moko escribió:
>>   
>> 
>>> there is some talk about this on the devel-list:
>>>
>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-July/003560.html
>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-July/003562.html
>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-July/003563.html
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 9:40 PM, Randy S. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> wrote:
>>> I am curious to know if anyone is using their FR as a phone.
>>> Mine has such poor audio quality, it is unfortunately useless
>>> as a phone.  The audio I hear is clear but at a very low
>>> volume; the other person hears my voice very distorted and
>>> with a buzz.
>>> 
>>> I am on T-Mobile in Texas, USA.
>>>
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>>> 
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Re: Reason for GPS problems found!

[Kalle Happonen]

Yaroslav Halchenko wrote:
> indeed, especially since I see possibility for it to be twofold: if it
> is not purely an issue of SD card in place putting physical stress on
> the board somehow (would be worth checking with dummy plastic
> insert instead of real SD card), it means that 
>
>   
I just ran three tests. Without SD card, with SD card with tape over the 
contacts, and SD card normally. This doesn't seem to be mechanical, 
since the first two cases got fixes in ~45 seconds, and with the SD card 
actually in and working I stopped waiting after 10 minutes.

It'll be interesting to see what removing the SD card does to the 
battery life, if anything.

> 1. either SD card is powered all the time (which afaik is not needed for
> the flash memory ;-)), thus leading to power drain without need
>
> 2. some component on the way (e.g. capacitor) is noisy
> and emitting EM noise/interference, thus again consuming power without
> need.
>
> Could anyone verify that power consumption is not changed considerably
> whenever SD card is in but not engaged, in comparison to whenever there
> is no SD card?
>
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Jay Vaughan wrote:
>
>   
>>> The problem only occurs if a SD card is set in. Doesn't matter if  
>>> it's mounted or in use, it just has to sit in the socket.
>>>   
>
>   
>> oh man, if this is true, its not good news.
>> 
>
>
>   
>> ;
>> 


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Re: Battery Lifetime

[Kalle Happonen]

This is great news indeed! Since I'm adventurous, and thought I'd take 
the Freerunner into phone use immideately, this has been the biggest 
obstacle for normal use so far. With decent battery life I'd be a Very 
Happy User.

Adam Talbot wrote:
> This is all with my FreeRunner.
> 144 hours, to be exact. Or, about 6 days of stand by time.  Something
> like 4 hours of active talk time. Looks like you could get 8 days and 5
> of talk, but I like every thing turned on. I have GPS running, but with
> out an SD card ;-).  Currently using the built in APM for power
> management. Keep in mind suspend/resume is unstable.  As I have seen
> many times.  Still working on squashing the bugs. Currently do not have
> a working SIM to test wake up on call.
>
> Is there a way to stop the screen bumping issue?  Perhaps unload the
> module that runs the touchscreen until there is a wake event (Auk key)?
>
> On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 22:26 -0500, Steven ** wrote:
>   
>> Last I read, they were getting like 100 hours standby with the new
>> suspend/resume functionality.  I don't know if there's an image that
>> has those changes available though.  It's not a hardware issue...
>>
>> -Steven
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 9:19 PM, Scott Derrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm amazed that more isn't being said about the battery lifetime people
>>> are seeing?
>>>
>>> I just read an article in Information Week that cited a large poll
>>> concerning users of mobile devices.  What was the number 1 issue, far
>>> and above any other issue people are concerned about and want to see
>>> improvement.  Yes, battery life.
>>>
>>> The times I've seen posted here are pathetic!  8 hours of standby!
>>> Christ, my MotoQ has almost 8 hours of active phone time!  8 hours of
>>> standby makes the FR a toy at best.
>>>
>>> I realize that a lot of people are just trying to get the unit to accept
>>> a sim card, or make a call,  get a gps fix, etc..  But I seriously can't
>>> use it as anything but a desk toy with that kind of battery life.
>>>
>>> Is there an ACPI or some other kind of power monitor built in that is
>>> granular enough for somebody to work on this problem using software?
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> -
>>>Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within 
>>> limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add "within 
>>> the limits of the law," because law is often but the tyrant's will, and 
>>> always so when it violates the rights of the individual.
>>>
>>>Thomas Jefferson
>>>
>>>
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>>>   
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>
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Re: Reason for GPS problems found!

[Kalle Happonen]

Jay Vaughan wrote:
>> For something as evocative as this GPS/SD issue, I'd like to see at  
>> *least* daily updates posted to an official website or blog (not  
>> wiki).
>> 
>
>
> Its really pretty important that the communication on this issue *not*  
> diverge into hate and vitriol towards customers, because to those who  
> are observing the OpenMoko project - not participating - the SD+GPS  
> testing issue is a *huge* screw up.
>
>   
No, the SD+GPS issue is a bug. Admittedly a somewhat nasty bug, but 
nothing extraordinary. The Debian key generation vulnerability was a 
*huge* screw up.


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Re: Reason for GPS problems found!

[Kalle Happonen]

Jay Vaughan wrote:
>>> Its really pretty important that the communication on this issue  
>>> *not*
>>> diverge into hate and vitriol towards customers, because to those who
>>> are observing the OpenMoko project - not participating - the SD+GPS
>>> testing issue is a *huge* screw up.
>>>   
>> No, the SD+GPS issue is a bug.
>> 
>
> Context:SD+Glamo == No go.
> SD+GPS == No go.
>
> How many GTA02's have been shipped before this problem was  
> discovered?  How much time wasted trying to get GPS functioning so  
> that development can continue?
>   
Haha, compared to "how many products has a big phone company shipped 
before fixing their hw bugs?", a neglible amount, and those to HC fans 
and supporters that know they are beta testers.
>> Admittedly a somewhat nasty bug, but
>> nothing extraordinary.
>> 
>
> If I can't use SD+GPS, its a no-brainer: Freerunner is no longer  
> qualified for my project.  Having spent a year on OpenMoko, thats  
> nasty.  I was willing to give the SD+Glamo issue a slide, but ..
>   
Well, then it's a big issue for you, which of course is crappy. But 
that's just it, it's a huge issue for *you*.  In the grand scheme of 
things it's a bug, and a bug Joerg has told us to be patient about, and 
one where there will be a fix for. I'd just wait for the sw + hw fixes, 
and see what the result is.


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Re: Reason for GPS problems found!

[Kalle Happonen]

Marcus Bauer wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 08:45 +0200, Kalle Happonen wrote:
>   
>>> Its really pretty important that the communication on this issue *not*  
>>> diverge into hate and vitriol towards customers, because to those who  
>>> are observing the OpenMoko project - not participating - the SD+GPS  
>>> testing issue is a *huge* screw up.
>>>
>>>   
>>>   
>> No, the SD+GPS issue is a bug. Admittedly a somewhat nasty bug, but 
>> nothing extraordinary. The Debian key generation vulnerability was a 
>> *huge* screw up.
>> 
>
> I don't follow your view. The Debian ssh bug was all but obvious. That's
> why it went for a long time unnoticed.
Not being obvious doesn't mean it isn't a huge screw up. Small things 
can mean huge implications. The Debian bug immideately cut the 
foundation of a huge amount of security that relies on this, worldwide 
and in critical applications. Keys are expected to be practically 
uncrackable, and a *lot* is built on this assumption, so correct key 
generations should be a no-brainer (20-20 hindsight, I admit). So the 
debian bug was a huge screw up, but luckily I think it was fixed with a 
bad scare in most cases.

> However, the GPS is a basic feature and its malfunctioning is very
> obvious. If you buy a new car and the engine doesn't run you'll wonder
> if anybody ever drove around with it.
>
>   
Well, if you buy a beta first customer release car and the gps isn't 
working when you play a cd, You might think crap! well luckily they 
promised a fix in the end of the week, in time for the weekend trip to 
my parents.
> The same goes for making phone calls: there is quite often a buzzing
> sound on the far end and it can be really bad. Unless you don't care
> about the people you are calling the Neo is not usable as your daily
> phone.
>   
This IMHO is a much bigger problem, which has caught much less attention.
> Then there are the phones with a GSM modem that constantly re-registers.
>
>   
> And there is still no word about which headsets are usable with the Neo.
>
> Don't mix up freedom with broken hardware!
>   
Don't mix first release beta phones with big-company market ready 
devices (which sometimes are "market ready" themselves, even with a lot 
more resources).

I think this is just a bit bigger case of the whole gta02v5 vs gta02v6 
led issue, that when quickly resolved actually was forgotten and even 
the word "issue" is too strong.

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Re: Battery Lifetime

[Kalle Happonen]

thomasg wrote:
> Where ever you think you might have heard this: it's bullshit.
> Complete bullshit.
Which of this? I agree with Scott, well, in a more understanding, and 
smiling way but still. I took the phone from the charger this morning, 
and it's almost dead now at the end of the workday, without me having 
used it at all. But I know there's work on improving this, and some nice 
results too, and I'm ok with this now. For real use, the current battery 
life just doesn't work in most cases.

As for the other stuff in the mail, people have been fighting with sim 
cards, gsm (o/), gps (o/).

But not to worry, improvement is on the way, and the speed that this 
moves on with the openmoko team and the community, I'm pretty sure this 
(and most other issues) will be solved sooner than later.

>
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Scott Derrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
> I'm amazed that more isn't being said about the battery lifetime
> people
> are seeing?
>
> I just read an article in Information Week that cited a large poll
> concerning users of mobile devices.  What was the number 1 issue, far
> and above any other issue people are concerned about and want to see
> improvement.  Yes, battery life.
>
> The times I've seen posted here are pathetic!  8 hours of standby!
> Christ, my MotoQ has almost 8 hours of active phone time!  8 hours of
> standby makes the FR a toy at best.
>
> I realize that a lot of people are just trying to get the unit to
> accept
> a sim card, or make a call,  get a gps fix, etc..  But I seriously
> can't
> use it as anything but a desk toy with that kind of battery life.
>
> Is there an ACPI or some other kind of power monitor built in that is
> granular enough for somebody to work on this problem using software?
>
> Scott
>
> --
>
> -
>Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will
> within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do
> not add "within the limits of the law," because law is often but
> the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of
> the individual.
>
>Thomas Jefferson
>
>
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>
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Package and image signatures

[Kalle Happonen]

Hi,
would it be possible to add signatures for the packages and hashes for 
the images? The latter one should be easy and it could be pretty much 
automated in the build process. I agree that it doesn't help much, but 
it would stop some of possible malicious repo tampering. I'm not saying 
it will happen, but they got Ubuntu too so it's always a possibility :)..

Having package signatures is a bit more work, at least if you want to do 
it well and securely, but I think this would be importat at latest when 
openmoko starts getting mirrors, just to make sure users get correct 
versions of software.

Cheers,
Kalle

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Re: Battery Lifetime

[Kalle Happonen]

Hi,
I just installed script, and made a menu command for it to see what it 
does to my battery. However, the phone wakes up inside a few minutes. 
Someone earlier wrote:

That's currently the crux of the problem, and why I don't yet use suspend. It 
resumes on cell registration messages, and each resume is another chance to 
fail. It also has to resume to accept a call, and not being able to reliably 
resume makes it an unreliable phone.


So is the cell registration the problem? Is it normal that it wakes up 
from susped this often, which pretty much voids any benefits atm. I know 
it's under development, just curious.

Cheers,
Kalle


Adam Talbot wrote:
> I am currently using the 20080716 build, from:
> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/
>
> Try running the apm -s  That will suspend to ram. I do this by hand
> every time I want the phone to suspend. The power button, or a call will
> wake it.  Please keep in mind, suspend to ram is currently unstable.
> Just give it a 12~100 hour test, let me know. apm with out any arguments
> will give you the battery status.  None of this is any good if I am the
> only one who can get these numbers ;-)
> -Adam
>
>
> On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 21:35 -0500, Steven ** wrote:
>   
>> I too am using the 2007.2 image upgraded.  But I have no problem with
>> dim+lock.  I haven't had my FreeRunner for long enough to definitively
>> say how long the battery will last.  But I had it at work today,
>> showing it off several times.  The remaining time it mostly sat on my
>> desk with dim+lock (I picked it up and played with something every 30
>> minutes or so).  "apm" showed 61% at the end of the work day.  Perhaps
>> apm isn't accurate, but it would imply I could get quite a lot of
>> standby time if I truly left the Freerunner alone.
>>
>> -Steven
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 6:24 PM, Christoph Anton Mitterer
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>>> How are you doing this?
>>>
>>> If I fully charge my GTA02 battery before I go to bed,.. it will be
>>> nearly empty when I wake up (I seep 7-8 hours),...
>>> Dim+nolock is choosen, as dim+lock seems to crash the device and I have
>>> to remove the battery to reboot (nothing else works). Does anybody else
>>> suffer from this?
>>>
>>> I'm using the 2007.2 image with everything upgraded...
>>> What are you using?
>>>   
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Re: Rogers SIM (Canada) causing crash on Dialer

[Kalle Happonen]

Sparrow wrote:
> Hi Folks, 
>
> I have an issue with a rogers (Canada) SIM card crashing the
> dialer application when a call is started.  After hitting "dial" on the
> dialer app the screen moves cuts over to the out going call screen and
> then the dial crashes.  I have tried another SIM from a friend's 1st gen
> iPhone and it works without issue.  This SIM does work in several other
> phones without issue.  Where should I start to debug this issue?  
> Thanks for your time and help. 
>
>   
My Swiss Orange card shows the same symptoms, but only intermittently. 
Much of the time, I can call and receive calls. Sometimes after a the 
phone has been on for a while the dialer crashes when I try to call, or 
dialer looks like it's dialing, but nothing happens. When this happens I 
can't receive calls or sms's either. A reboot solves the problem. Any 
idea where to start debugging? I run the latest scaredycat (as of last 
thursday). I have also had dialing/receiving problems when I tested ASU.

Cheers,
Kalle Happonen


> Best Regards, 
> Steven O'Reilly
>
>
>
>
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Re: Anyone using FR as a phone?

[Kalle Happonen]

Scott Derrick wrote:
> Its hard to believe the distro doesn't come pre-configured with settings
> that don't produce echo, very low volume, interference?
>
>   
It's hard to believe nobody has come up with Better Than Default 
settings, uploaded the config, and gotten it in the newest release :)
> Scott
>
> Cédric Berger wrote:
>   
>> People I had on the phone never complained about echo. When I asked,
>> they said there was none.
>> But they often complained about volume level too low... and maybe
>> that's why there was no echo...
>> (and they also complained about interference noise, which I heard too)
>>
>> I need to make more calls and change my volume settings to know more...
>>
>> 
>
>
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Re: Import contacts qtopia

[Kalle Happonen]

Greg Bonett wrote:
>> Unofficial answer (as this is not tested by us... it is the code from
>> trolltech as is so is likely to have issues)
>>
>> 1.) copy the the file vcf to the device
>> 2.) /opt/Qtopia/bin/addressbook /path/to/vcf-file (will get deleted)
>> 3.) GUI makes some stuff... asks you to import..
>> 4.) You might need to restart afterwards
>>
>>
>> maybe someone comes up with a FAQ...
>>
>>
>>
>> z.
>> 
> Ah, thats seems easy.
> Can anyone confirm this method?  (I'll try it as soon as I get home from
> work)
>   
Hmm I didn't get this to work. I didn't have a terminal on the phone, so 
I ran it with X forwarding, i.e. the windows opened on my laptop. I 
think I would have gotten them imported (vCard version 2.1, not 3 for 
some reason), but I found no way of confirmin the "Would you like to 
import" dialog. I didn't find a way to tell addressbook to autoimport, 
the documentation is a bit skimpy..

Cheers,
Kalle

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Launching apps in ASU

[Kalle Happonen]

Hello,
I just flashed to ASU (again, it's fun to play around :) ). I installed 
the vte terminal with opkg, and it installed nicely. Now I wonder how I 
can add it to the launcher, or how I can launch it at all? I can 
ofcourse do it with X forwarding over ssh, but that kind of misses the 
whole point :). If I'm not completely mistaken, the settings are in a 
sqlite database, and even if I do like fiddling, I wondered if there 
would be an easier way than playing with sqlite.

Cheers,
Kalle

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Re: Launching apps in ASU

[Kalle Happonen]

Marcel wrote:
> Am Dienstag 22 Juli 2008 08:39:20 schrieb Kalle Happonen:
>   
>> Hello,
>> I just flashed to ASU (again, it's fun to play around :) ). I installed
>> the vte terminal with opkg, and it installed nicely. Now I wonder how I
>> can add it to the launcher, or how I can launch it at all? I can
>> ofcourse do it with X forwarding over ssh, but that kind of misses the
>> whole point :). If I'm not completely mistaken, the settings are in a
>> sqlite database, and even if I do like fiddling, I wondered if there
>> would be an easier way than playing with sqlite.
>> 
> Simply add a new .desktop file for it to /usr/share/applications. :)
>
>   
ah, well that seems more than obvious. Is this in the wiki btw? I'm sure 
I'm not the first with this problem/question.

Cheers,
Kalle

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Re: Terminal for ASU

[Kalle Happonen]

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:39:01 +0100 JW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
>
>   
>>> Where are the design documents which say "no keyboard toggle button
>>> should be included", please? If one wishes to contribute code or
>>> patches to ASU then I guess it's necessary to know this, or one will
>>> find patches rejected because they don't meet this design specification?
>>>
>>>   
>> surely this is a prime candidate for a motion detection / gesture detection
>> to bring up the keyboard
>>
>> easy - no extra button needed
>>
>> geeks who enable their gesture of choice get the keyboard when they want it
>>
>> carsten can you build in the sleeping gesture as you go?
>> 
>
> what gesture, where? how? how ill this be able to not conflict with operation
> of other apps? i am not so hot on gestures - especially ones that use up the
> "whole screen" or parts o the screen where apps run - as now gestures fight 
> for
> usability with apps themselves. there is no coordination. example:
>
> if the gesture was "slide up the screen from bottom to top" - how is this
> gesture different from me dragging my finger to scroll a list in the 
> application
> on my screen? how do i make sure only ONE of these happens (the keyboard pops 
> up
> OR the scroll happens) and not both?
>   
I'm not sure, but I think he meant gesture as in accelerometer. Double 
tap the phone for instance, or tap it on the bottom and it slides up, 
and tap it on the top and it slides down... or...

Kalle

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Re: Import contacts qtopia

[Kalle Happonen]

Holger Freyther wrote:
> On Monday 21 July 2008 22:07:30 Kalle Happonen wrote:
>
>   
>> Hmm I didn't get this to work. I didn't have a terminal on the phone, so
>> I ran it with X forwarding, i.e. the windows opened on my laptop. I
>> think I would have gotten them imported (vCard version 2.1, not 3 for
>> some reason), but I found no way of confirmin the "Would you like to
>> import" dialog. I didn't find a way to tell addressbook to autoimport,
>> the documentation is a bit skimpy..
>> 
>
> well, Qtopia has this concept of a soft menu... So far only the software on 
> the neo knows how to treat the properties set on the Qtopia windows to show 
> the buttons.
> So set DISPLAY=:0, show the addressbook on the screen of the neo, get a 
> softmenu and click the buttons there..
>
> z.
>   
Ah thanks, I feel like an idiot, I could have come up with the DISPLAY 
idea myself. Well luckily there seems to be sharper brains out here. :)

Kalle

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Re: Public build host (proposal)

[Kalle Happonen]

John Mark Walker wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 2:25 PM, Yorick Moko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> by "gratis" he means "without cost"
>>
>> 
>
> Oops... :)  Yes, I mean "free as in beer."
>
>   
Not to be a nitpick, but I think the official quote is "free as in free 
beer" which makes much more sense :). In general I have a way too hard 
time to find free beer.


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Re: Public build host (proposal)

[Kalle Happonen]

Stroller wrote:
> On 24 Jul 2008, at 06:22, Kalle Happonen wrote:
>   
>> John Mark Walker wrote:
>> 
>>> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 2:25 PM, Yorick Moko  
>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>> by "gratis" he means "without cost"
>>>> 
>>> Oops... :)  Yes, I mean "free as in beer."
>>>   
>> Not to be a nitpick, but I think the official quote is "free as in  
>> free
>> beer" which makes much more sense :).
>> 
>
> I have never seen the phrase used this way, only "free as in  
> beer" (vs "free as in speech").
>   
Yes, I have always also heard it like that. But then I saw a question to 
Stallman, "that doesn't make sense, there's no real free beer"? And he 
answered that no, but people are misquoting. It was originally "free as 
in free speech, not as in free beer" or something pretty close... If 
there are some real gpl stallman enthusiast there, feel free to flame me 
for mistelling/quoting/having proprietary nvidia drivers on the laptop..

Kalle



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Re: How do you "reply" to an sms in 2007.2?

[Kalle Happonen]

Hit the pen (lower right) when you have the message open..

Kalle

William Kenworthy wrote:
> How do you "reply" to an sms in 2007.2?
>
> Does not seem to be possible.
>
> Is there any user documentation for the various standard apps? - they
> are not all that intuitive!
>
> BillK
>
>
>
>   


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Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design

[Kalle Happonen]

Nkoli wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Jay Vaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
>
> Having worked in Open-Hardware for over 15 years now, I was, in fact,
> expecting a much more coherent strategy for the software platform on
> Freerunner than just "let the community decide".  Certainly, the
> community aspect of this project is huge; I am not saying that it is
> not valuable to have such great public influence on the design; just
> that: there *has* to be a rigid design approach to guide development,
> or else we end up with a torn map navigating fork-city.
>
>
> Jay, your negative posts on this ML do nothing but foster an 
> unpleasant atmosphere
Actually I disagree a bit here. Jay is not trolling but just saying 
where he's trying to come from. I'm not saying that everybody should 
immideately agree with him, but this is one of the main points of having 
an open community. There NEEDS to be open criticism and discussion, it's 
not like there's only one truth.  Trying to silence and belittle people 
who see differently is exactly what should be avoided. Trolling is one 
thing, but I think Linus is a great example. Having strong oppinions and 
stating them can be good, even if I don't always agree, but they're 
never at least unfounded.

Kalle

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Phonecalls hanging up

[Kalle Happonen]

Hi,
I just got out of a lengthy call which got hung up 4 times during the 
call. It seemed like it went to powersave mode. It might just be that 
the audio died, and the remote person hung up and called again. I did an 
upgrade to the newest 2007.2 today. I use the dim-first-then-lock 
option. Is the phone going to suspend even if a call is active?

Kalle

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Re: usb networking no longer works

[Kalle Happonen]

Hi,
I had the same problem. IIRC it was resolved by flashing a new uboot to 
the device.

cheers,
Kalle

Dimitri wrote:
> I've flashed the latest 2008.8 images, and the script I was previously using
> to connect to the phone via usb no longer works.
>
> What I used to run (with 2007.2 images) was the following script as sudo in
> Ubuntu:
> --
> #!/bin/bash
>
> iptables -F
> ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0
> route add 192.168.0.202 usb0
> iptables -I INPUT 1 -s 192.168.0.202 -j ACCEPT
> iptables -I OUTPUT 1 -s 192.168.0.200 -j ACCEPT
> iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s 192.168.0.0/24
> bash -c echo '1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward'
> --
>
> But now, it fails with errors. I ran it, line by line, the first line that
> fails is
>
> ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0
>
> with the error:
> --
> SIOCSIFADDR: No such device
> usb0: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such device
> SIOCSIFNETMASK: No such device
> --
>
> What's going on?
> Dimitri
>   


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Re: InvibleShield at ZAGG : swindling ?!?

[Kalle Happonen]

I got my order confirmation 27.7, shipping confirmation 28.7 and 
received it yesterday. I chose the slowest cheapes delivery, so I think 
it was in time. Delivery to France. Got one for my Nokia N810 too at the 
same time :)

Cheers,
Kalle

Cédric DUFOUIL wrote:
> I finally received an answer from ZAGG. They say they will ship 
> another one ...
>
> So now ... Wait & See ...
>  
> 
>
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Re: Usable Keyboard

[Kalle Happonen]

Hi all,
First of all I also have to say great job with 2008.08. I like it a lot.

Then the normal keyboard rant. I don't mind the predictive keyboard at 
all. As long as 1) I can add languages 2) can choose the word I actually 
typed.

When the predictive kb is on,  and I type in english I really like it. 
Yesterday at the bar when friends were taynting "ooh let's see if you 
manage to write an sms with openmoko", I whipped out the freerunner, and 
had a message written in english before the othe guys had their phones 
out of the pocket. And this was with accuracy - (beer * 4). But when 
they asked to write something in finnish, I said "ooh, who's ready for 
anothe beer" and deftly hid the freerunner.

Cheers,
Kalle
> With this crazy «dictionary-thing» I'm not able to write a message in (Swiss) 
> German or any other language than English. Even a simple «Hallo» ends up 
> in «Hello». And as long I'm not able to write a word that is not in the 
> dictionary it's pretty useless for me. There are also keys missing to make it 
> usable for the terminal.
>
> I think I am talking for a lot of people who want to have a _nice and usable_ 
> keyboard - for any language and any app.
>
> The keyboard has to be finger friendly and not too small. It should contain 
> all usual letters and special characters. 
> I made a little mockup (it's no design masterpiece... ;-)) of a keyboard. I 
> think something in this direction would be really cool:
>   


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Re: 2008 WTF??

[Kalle Happonen]

Bumbl wrote:
> As it seems they have the contrary.
> They have a leader which seems to dictate everything without
> accepting ideas from the developers or the community.
>
>   
Well, that's just mean. It's not like they don't listen to the community 
or communicate with it, on ALL levels. But it's not like all community 
ideas can be implemented immideately, and that everyone can be made 
happy. Anarchy doesn't work even in open source.

I think 2008.08 is in most ways a step forward. And in the things that 
aren't like that.. sometimes you have to take a half step back to get 
two steps forward. Constructive criticism is the best help one can give, 
but bitching is just stupid.

Cheers,
Kalle
> Dimitri wrote:
>   
>> It's hard to argue with your points, since the phone STILL can't connect to
>> the internet *out-of-the-box*.
>>
>> (Who wants to manually hack a dozen files, or install some guy's
>> half-working gui posted on some blog that requires google-translate to
>> read?)
>>
>> Why the developers are spending time breaking things that were previously
>> worked (see ASU keyboard), rather than fixing what's broken and in desperate
>> need of fixing, is beyond me.
>>
>> Is it a lack of leadership? For this aggressive undertaking to be
>> successful, it needs at least one person to prioritize, delegate, and lead
>> the other developers.
>>
>> Is there such a person at Openmoko? If not, that's the problem. Having a
>> team of developers, without clear leadership, is akin to herding cats :)
>>
>> D
>>
>>
>> ted braak wrote:
>>   
>> 
>>> I have real doubts about the some Quality Assurance aspects of this team. 
>>> Also I don't see real dedication and vision to get rid of bugs and produce
>>> something stable and usable. It looks like there is more effort in
>>> bringing us bling. 
>>> I think bling is something that can be created by the community itself. 
>>>
>>> 
>>>   
>
>
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Re: stupid guy! thinks it's a train wreck!

[Kalle Happonen]

Flyin_bbb8 wrote:
> hahahah this guy is really stupid,, check it out.. be sure to check 
> out his comments!!!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3ntUy2eqlk

Not as much stupid as not grasping where/what OpenMoko is. Now the 
comments. They were pretty much written by idiots :).


Kalle

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Re: stupid guy! thinks it's a train wreck!

[Kalle Happonen]

Jan Keymeulen wrote:
> On Mon 18 August 2008 om 16:27:48 GMT Kalle Happonen told us:
>   
>> Flyin_bbb8 wrote:
>> 
>>> hahahah this guy is really stupid,, check it out.. be sure to check 
>>> out his comments!!!
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3ntUy2eqlk
>>>   
>> Not as much stupid as not grasping where/what OpenMoko is. Now the 
>> comments. They were pretty much written by idiots :).
>>
>> 
>
> http://xkcd.com/202/
>   
Aaah, xkcd. How many times hasn't that saved my day :)




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Re: Accelerometer brainstorming

[Kalle Happonen]

Alexey Feldgendler wrote:


Do you think it's possible to use traits of a person's walk for 
identification? Never heard about something like this. Interesting 
idea, if it turns out implementable.


I remember seeing some research results about this a few years back. 
Using a phone with accelerometers they managed to identify different 
persons from their walk with about a 90% accuracy IIRC. So it seems to 
be completely feasible, but I doubt that it's trivial.


Kalle


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Re: new main page of our wiki

[Kalle Happonen]

Sebastian Hammerl wrote:


Steven Le Roux schrieb:



crash your win, install a debian/gentoo or any other real good OS... 
then try again :)



i use linux with opera

no windows!
Ah, so do I, but it looks good here. You might want to play around with 
the author mode/user mode settings (and/or update to newest opera). If 
this page doesn't look good, there's a big chance that other pages have 
problems as well.


Cheers,
Kalle

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Re: Stylus Recommendation

[Kalle Happonen]

I've actually thought about the stylus issue, and it's a small shame 
that there isn't storage for the stylus within the freerunner itself. 
One idea would be to make a magnetic flat stylys that should attach 
itself to the back of the Freerunner? Its profile could be be shaped 
like this |) with a place for a nail to get it loose, and pointy ends. 
This way it would probably stay with the freerunner and it would be 
easily accessible. I'd probably try doing something like this myself if 
I had some experience in that field.


Cheers,
Kalle



Tom Russell wrote:

I like to have both a pen and stylus handy but hate carrying more than
necessary.  I found a very small (10cm, closed) combo from Fisher
http://www.spacepen.com/Public/Products/BulletPen/Stylus/index.cfm?productID=74
It doesn't take up much space in my pocket, so I can carry it
everywhere.  While I look forward to the multi-function stylus that will
come with my Freerunner (my cat loves laser pointers), this has been
a great tool.

Regards,
Tom


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