Re: [OT] combined forum and mailinglist (Re: Why not use forum?)

[Ortwin Regel]

We also came upon this idea a year ago. There are a few problems with
it. Mail gets sent once. The advantage of a forum is that you can
edit, merge, move and delete things.

Ortwin

On 6/13/08, Arnout Engelen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 02:48:27PM -0400, Kevin Dean wrote:
>> Some people REALLY like mailing lists and some people REALLY like
>> fora and never the twain shall meet. :P
>
> Personally, I don't believe this: to me, it sounds entirely feasible to
> create a 'discussion thread respository' which can be accessed with a
> web forum interface, a mailinglist interface or an NNTP client. I fail
> to see the fundamental difference.
>
> (of course, there's already gatewaying software like GMANE, some forums
> already have quite extensive mail features and some mailinglist
> softwares have added some interactivity to their 'archive'. I don't feel
> I've seen it 'done right' yet, though, with a central 'message
> repository' and several interfaces which are all 'first class citizens'.
>
> As a hobby project, I started implementing this. I'm currently thinking
> of a Java web app with a Hibernate database (postgres/mysql), and
> Subethamail serves as an inspiration. This is *way* pre-alpha, but if
> anyone would like to cooperate, drop me a note :).
>
>
> Arnout
>
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Re: Why not use forum?

[Ortwin Regel]

Pah, mailing lists are for old people. :P

On 6/12/08, Esben Stien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Leonti Bielski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> I was wondering - why are we not using forum for community?
>
> Because web forums are a pain. I'm over 250 mailing lists. Imaging the
> unbearable pain of having to go to all those web forums.
>
> Web forums are also extremely bad for a structured discussion. Web
> forums is a kids thing, basically;).
>
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Re: Why not use forum?

[Ortwin Regel]

http://forums.makeopensource.com/index.php
Haven't been there in a while, though. It seems like those weird
hardcore Linux people simply prefer mailing lists... <_<

Ortwin

On 6/12/08, Leonti Bielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi!
> I was wondering - why are we not using forum for community?
> It's much  better to view, you can subscribe and unsubscribe to the
> topics you want and etc.
> The main
> Personally I don't like mailing list because it's not that comfortable
> and I can see no advatages of using mailing list instead of forum?
> Can anyone explain to me why we can't install
>
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Re: Dual SIM?

[Ortwin Regel]

No, because you don't have access to everything in a sim card and thus
can't copy it.

Ortwin

On 6/12/08, Bumbl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> would it, in theory, be possible to emulate a 2nd sim-card which was
> inserted and saved on the flash memory before
> and switch between it and the inserted one?
>
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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

[Ortwin Regel]

Your calculations may well be correct for the awful situation in the
USA. In other parts of the world, this is drastically different!
Please keep that in mind.

Ortwin

On 6/11/08, ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Robert Taylor wrote:
>> Just compare equal things.
>
> We'll have to agree to disagree on the definition of "equal".
>
> Hear me out:
>
> By my calculations below, a consumer buying an iPhone or a Freerunner,
> and using AT&T for a voice/data plan, is going to spend about $2600 over
> two years no matter which phone they buy.
>
> Jorge's original posting in this thread said the following:
>  > the new iPhone 3G price was announced, and the 8 Gigas version will
>  > cost only $199 USD
> and
>  > now the FreeRunner is less competitive than the iPhone in terms
>  > of price.
>
> He was asking about straight out-of-pocket expense, not about subsidies.
> The end consumer is only going to see the price tag on the phone itself.
>
> The consumer will look at the iPhone and see a price of $199.
> Then they'll look at the Freerunner and see a price tag of $399.
>
> If they choose the $199 iPhone, they get locked into a two year
> contract, likely paying $100 per month for a voice/data plan. Over 24
> months, their total cost is going to be about $2600.
>
> If they choose the $399 Freerunner, they aren't locked into a minimum 2
> year contract, but they'll still need monthly service for the same
> 24-month period. As I mentioned in a previous message, a plain
> voice/data plan with AT&T is still going to cost $90 or more depending
> on the plan you pick. After 24 months, they've still paid $2600.
>
> That looks pretty 'equal' to me, and *I* believe the average consumer
> will feel the same way. If you don't agree with that, then you and I
> simply don't agree on it, but that still doesn't warrant calling
> someone's communication "nonsense" simply because you don't agree with them.
>
> The Freerunner would perhaps be cheaper if the consumer buys "pay as you
> go" minutes/data instead of a monthly plan.
> The Freerunner would *definitely* be cheaper if they buy the iPhone and
> start buying applications through iTunes for their phone.
>
>> If you want to compare the total cost, compare the total cost of buying
>> the new iphone UNLOCKED at retail cost (you can't) plus the data package
>> and THEN we can talk.
>
> But the consumer isn't asked to pay the full unlocked price of the
> iPhone. Just because AT&T subsidizes the phone by lessening the profit
> they make on the $100/month you'll pay them for using their service, the
> consumer isn't paying "more" for the phone since they'd still have to
> pay for the same voice/data service to use a Freerunner. It just means
> AT&T makes more profit on the voice/data plan because they haven't
> subsidized anything.
>
> And you still haven't followed up with how you calculated the iPhone to
> cost 'twice' as much as the Freerunner.
>
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Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)

[Ortwin Regel]

Who are these weird people that think window transparency on an
underpowered phone is a good idea?! What functionality does THAT give
us? I'd like to see some justification, if not from you then from
whoever is responsible for these ideas. I've lived without window
transparancy on all my PCs and handhelds up to now. I've seen it on my
brother's Vista PC and it was kind of funny for all of five minutes.

Ortwin

On 6/11/08, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 01:07:40 +0200 Joerg Reisenweber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
>
>> Am Di  10. Juni 2008 schrieb Carsten Haitzler:
>> > On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:16:06 +0800 "Wilkinson, Alex"
>> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
>> >
>> > > 0n Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 01:43:08PM +0800, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >we are in a world where to get gfx support to run such high
>> resolutions
>> > > >means we need to have closed drivers. and that is not
>> > >
>> > > Curious, why is that ?
>> >
>> > graphics is the most intensive thing your device is likely to do in
>> > terms of
>> > processing. if you want soft drop shadows, alpha blending (and trust me
>> > -
>> > everyone is drooling for it out there - the iphone is doing it already)
>> > the
>>
>> No, I won't trust you here! I give a SH*T on soft shadows, even on my
>> desktop. I switch off animation because I think it's annoying waste of
>> time
>> to see "the same movie" over and over. Alpha blending? Eeew! Useless.
>
> the day the design mockups for the ui i see stop having alpha transparency
> is
> the day i make this unimportant. until that day, your "i don't care about
> this"
> is the kind of opinion that i also am not interested in, because i am being
> shown ui designs hat REQUIRE it in the long run between windows, and in the
> short term is being faked with software within windows. i am just trying to
> make something possible that is being requested, and has been for a long
> time.
> not just say "i don't care".
>
>> Every single argument been mentioned multiple times here. Redundance.
>> GTA03 has VGA - period!
>
> things can change - unlikely to be, but can. i have said it many times
> already.
>
>> 04 even better i'd bet on it. 05 virtually no-one even thinking of now,
>> not
>> to mention sourceability of parts when it's coming to real.
>>
>> And now I'm definitely stopping to feed this tro.. er, thread, which btw
>> seems nobody is looking on the weird subject any more :-/
>> ETX
>> jOERG
>>
>
>
> --
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Re: GTA - Two models? Was: GTA03: New case? Bigger screen!

[Ortwin Regel]

I wonder: Might it be useful/possible to add a connector for Bug
modules to a future Openmoko phone?

On 6/10/08, Robert Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Roland Häder wrote:
>> My suggestion here is that OpenMoko may design another phone - if the
>> market
>> asks for this:
>>
>> - An OpenMoko for younger people who need the gaming controls Ortwin is
>> mentioning as subject for removal.
>>
>> - Another OpenMoko for professionals/business/older people without the
>> gameing
>> controls but bigger screen. Maybe there is one available? Surely the
>> software
>> shipped with this OpenMoko doesn't need include software which requires
>> the
>> gaming controls.
>>
>> Any further ideas? :)
>>
>> Roland
>>
>>
> Yes.  I propose a modular approach.  1 phone many external similar to
> this idea: http://www.icontrolpad.com/
>
> Additionally, there is a certain cool factor to having a single unit but
> many docking stations if done right, for example:
>
> Quick preview:  http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3871478989.html
>
> Their overbearing website:  http://www.buglabs.net/products
>
> Buglabs is doing something really cool, but you gotta code in java and
> it doesn't fit into a pocket (well it does fit in a really big pocket).
>
> It's pretty clear Mokos core group of users are very demanding, and
> something like that would allow for everyone to be happy.
>
> However, why I really think this could be a really great approach for
> the moko is the 'Hey Cool!' factor.
>
> Can you picture the conversation when you meet up with  a buddy "hey
> whats that on your moko? oh it's my new gamepod.  COL!  can i try it
> on my moko?  sure  ... *CLICK*  ... here you go.   COOL!"
>
> It also reduces the dev costs for moko, it allows it to remain a
> smartphone and not move from that niche, reduces the number of formats
> that people will be demanding the moko be made in and will start to
> establish a hardware addon ecosystem beyond what is already being developed.
>
> What the moko manufacturers then can pull is a NIKE.  Instead of relying
> purely on sales of the moko, they can turn them selves into an R&D and
> marketing company and not only produce their own hardware if they want
> to, but also licence officially supported modules and addons to control
> quality and get a cut of each sale.
>
> Also when usb3 comes along you can offload all sorts of stuff to that,
> such as gfx co-porcessing if you want so all of a sudden you can get ati
> into the picture with their completely documented processors and really
> start something interesting.
>
>
> Just some brianstorming ...
>
> Rob
>
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Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 - product management, features & assumptions

[Ortwin Regel]

Well said.

Ortwin

On 6/10/08, Stroller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 9 Jun 2008, at 01:56, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
>> ... i am asked by product management to do
>> things that are just not possible in vga (to do sanely/fast).
>> ... in the end if product management want X they get X. and
>> if for X to happen we go QVGA, then so be it. you guys lose. i need
>> a very very
>> very strong argument against going to qvga - and that means product
>> management
>> need to drop a feature.
>
>
> On 10 Jun 2008, at 11:55, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
>> ... graphics is the most intensive thing your device is likely to
>> do in terms of
>> processing. if you want soft drop shadows, alpha blending (and
>> trust me -
>> everyone is drooling for it out there - the iphone is doing it
>> already) the
>> sheer memory bandwidth and cycles needed to do that stuff at a
>> smooth framerate
>> is astounding. sure - if your life is plain with still images/
>> content and
>> everything is plain solid rectangles, you don't. but i am being
>> shown designs
>> wanted that REQUIRE compositing - REQUIRE alpha blending and all
>> that snazz.
>> this is coming to me and i need a way to accommodate it in the long
>> run
>> ... cpu alone can't do it all - unless you really cut down the
>> workload. that means too
>> bad - no alpha" ...
>
>
> On 6 Jun 2008, at 08:45, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
>> ... if we want to play the "my specs are better than your specs"
>> game right now, we will lose.
>> ... if all you measure a device on is dpi and pixel
>> count, you are being silly. how it looks matters even more. dpi
>> helps there,
>> but so does compositing, translucency, smooth animation etc. in
>> fact these
>> probably have a much greater "buy me" effect. by far more. i'll put
>> money on
>> that bet actually (this is just speaking from having done eyecandy
>> for over a
>> decade - on linux, and having seen what it can do to attract
>> people). to make
>> things like compositing fast, smooth and nice, you must lower
>> resolution to do
>> it, or increase graphics power grunt. so given that graphicws grunt
>> is not
>> changing, cpu is not, the only 2 things that can change are screen
>> resolution
>> or the "eyecandy" has to remain toned down. so does vga buy you
>> more sales for
>> the average joe than a sexy bit of eyecandy at qvga? i'm leaning to
>> qvga +
>> eyecandy myself.
>
>
> Reading these posts of the last few days it has just occurred to me
> that it's not Carsten we should be beating up on here.
> Who the heck asked for translucency and flashy animations?
>
> Management seem to be asking for this "alpha" bleeding rubbish, and
> it seems to me that we users need to be telling management that we
> don't care a heck for it.
>
> Sure, I know the iPhone does this now, but that doesn't mean Openmoko
> has to do it. Do we really want Openmoko to be just another iPhone
> clone? I know we see a fair number of posts on here about the iPhone,
> but surely that's just a result of the current buzz - is UI animation
> really a *necessity* in the long-term (or medium-term) future of the
> mobile phone market?
>
> DISCLAIMER: I haven't used an iPhone, and I'm not terribly interested
> in it. I do use a Mac as my main desktop, but that's not for the
> animation, it's because I want something that "just works" when I sit
> down at my computer. All us Mac fans found Expose to be a *massive*
> UI improvement when it was released, but that's because virtual
> desktops have always been rubbish on a Mac - with so many windows on
> a single desktop *some* way of finding the bottom-most one was
> required. The other day I was talking to a Linux developer who turned
> off compiz on his desktop because it slowed down his productivity -
> you simply don't need Expose if you have virtual desktops (which
> admittedly are not suitable for my granny).
>
> It seems to me that, whilst the iPhone's animation may "wow" people,
> what really distinguishes the iPhone is the same attention to UI
> simplicity that Apple have always brought to their products. It does
> a FEW things amazingly well, and that's where it separates itself
> from the majority of phones on the market, none of which *quite* suit
> the mass-market of users. Most users don't want to understand the
> filesystem on their mobile phone, so Apple do away with it; Apple
> have made it spectacularly easy (so much so that one must include in
> the discussion the word "intuitive") to email a photo taken on the
> camera or grabbed from a webpage, but they make it impossible to
> email attachments under many other circumstances. The majority of
> users don't want to copy & paste text on their mobile phones, so
> Apple just got rid of it - other manufacturers "muddy up" the phones
> they aim at girls and little old ladies (excuse me) by including the
> ability to copy & paste; Apple have realised that only a minority of
> business-phone users want or need th

Re: GTA - Two models? Was: GTA03: New case? Bigger screen!

[Ortwin Regel]

For the record: I was talking about the gaming controls of my Tapwave
Zodiac. I realize that this was probably not all that clear from the
context and apologize.

I think branching into multiple devices starts making sense with the
switch to a new SoC. As it is, it looks like GTA03 is supposed to be
the Neo camera edition. I can't think of too much other popular uses
that should be realized with the current configuration. Maybe a keypad
would be popular (though I personally hate it) but that would either
require relatively complex mechanics (and maybe patent issues) or it
would be awful...

Ortwin

On 6/10/08, Roland Häder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My suggestion here is that OpenMoko may design another phone - if the market
> asks for this:
>
> - An OpenMoko for younger people who need the gaming controls Ortwin is
> mentioning as subject for removal.
>
> - Another OpenMoko for professionals/business/older people without the
> gameing
> controls but bigger screen. Maybe there is one available? Surely the
> software
> shipped with this OpenMoko doesn't need include software which requires the
> gaming controls.
>
> Any further ideas? :)
>
> Roland
>
> On Tuesday, 10. June 2008, Ortwin Regel wrote:
>> There has been all this fruitless talk about resolution. Well, what is
>> really limiting the Neo's screen right now is not resolution
>> (obviously), not speed (at least not on the GTA01, no idea how messed
>> up the 02 situation is. I'd guess it's faster most of the time.) but
>> size! If the GTA03 get's a new case design, please consider making the
>> screen twice as big! Then we are finally at a size were
>> two-thumb-typing starts to make sense and even people with bad eye
>> sight can benefit from the high resolution (although I'm not convinced
>> that second point is a positive one... <_<). The device wouldn't even
>> have to be bigger for this because so much space was wasted in the
>> original Neo design. The only handheld I have owned where the screen
>> could be called big enough was the Tapwave Zodiac (RIP). If you shave
>> off the gaming controls and make it a little thicker, you get a very
>> decent phone.
>> Also, I suggest concentrating more on the horizontal usage. For
>> example, bring the stereo speakers back but add one below and one
>> above the display so that they are left and right in landscape. You
>> can get a pretty good stereo effect at that distance.
>>
>> Ortwin
>>
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>
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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

[Ortwin Regel]

There are cheaper contracts if you don't get a phone with them in
Germany. No idea what the situation in the US is. (It's probably
godawful... :-/) Personally, I use a prepaid SIM card so I pay no
monthly fees at all. Much cheaper for me than any contract. So for me
the price advantage over an iPhone is very real.

Ortwin

On 6/10/08, ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Robert Taylor wrote:
>> You pay through the nose for it because you HAVETO sign up for a 2 year
>> contract minimum.
>
> Granted, the Apple and AT&T partnership greatly subsidizes the cost,
> because of the $960 ($40/mo unlimited data plan for 2 yrs) to $2400
> ($100/mo unlimited voice/data for 2 yrs) that you'd spend with AT&T also
> helps cover the hidden cost of the hardware.
>
> And while I personally don't care much for the iPhone, you also have to
> sign up for a voice/data plan to use the Freerunner... You're still
> paying the $960-$2400 over two years, but there's not offset of cost of
> the hardware to the consumer. The monthly fees you pay that doesn't pay
> for the actual use of the cell network is 100% profit to AT&T instead of
> going to Apple to help pay for the hardware.
>
> Same with TMobile, and I imagine any other carrier who offsets the price
> of their phones to lock you into a contract.
>
> Just my $0.02.
>
> What you're paying the extra money for, for the Freerunner, is the
> freedom of doing whatever you want with your phone. Sure, the iPhone has
> their SDK released, but all applications still have to go through Apple
> to operate on your phone -- I don't know if the SDK even allows you to
> build an application just for your own iPhone to test it. Also, their
> mobile OS is closed source -- you have no access to hack or tweak it to
> do *exactly* what you want it to. You can't change the applications that
> come with the phone, you can't do a lot of things. Sure, they have lots
> of eye candy and some solid-looking applications, but once we as a
> community port applications to the Freerunner hardware to run on
> OpenMoko, we'll be leaps and bounds ahead of the iPhone software.
>
> That, to me, is worth the extra purchase price.
>
> -id
>
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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

[Ortwin Regel]

What the hell?! Seems like a lot of people STILL don't get it:
The iPhone does NOT cost 199$.
It's a marketing lie. The actual price is 199$ + a two year contract.
That makes it probably closer to 1000$. The Neo is still very very
cheap compared to that, especially considering how few Neo phones are
being made at the moment.

Ortwin

On 6/10/08, Jorge . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I dont pretend to start a flamewar of "FreeRunner vs iPhone". Everyone knows
> their advantages and disadvantages and at least for me the main reason to
> buy an openmoko is the freedom.
>
> But the new iPhone 3G price was announced, and the 8 Gigas version will cost
> only $199 USD and it automatically makes the OpenMoko phone expensive,
> because they have similar characteristics... this could discourage many
> possible buyers, for purely economical reasons.
>
> I dont know if the FreeRunner price can be changed at this moment, but now
> the FreeRunner is less competitive than the iPhone in terms of price.
>
>
> Best wishes
>
>
>
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GTA03: New case? Bigger screen!

[Ortwin Regel]

There has been all this fruitless talk about resolution. Well, what is
really limiting the Neo's screen right now is not resolution
(obviously), not speed (at least not on the GTA01, no idea how messed
up the 02 situation is. I'd guess it's faster most of the time.) but
size! If the GTA03 get's a new case design, please consider making the
screen twice as big! Then we are finally at a size were
two-thumb-typing starts to make sense and even people with bad eye
sight can benefit from the high resolution (although I'm not convinced
that second point is a positive one... <_<). The device wouldn't even
have to be bigger for this because so much space was wasted in the
original Neo design. The only handheld I have owned where the screen
could be called big enough was the Tapwave Zodiac (RIP). If you shave
off the gaming controls and make it a little thicker, you get a very
decent phone.
Also, I suggest concentrating more on the horizontal usage. For
example, bring the stereo speakers back but add one below and one
above the display so that they are left and right in landscape. You
can get a pretty good stereo effect at that distance.

Ortwin

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Re: Landscape keyboard

[Ortwin Regel]

Interesting idea. There are some problems I see with it:
-The screen is very small so typing with two thumbs and trying to see
what you type gets difficult.
-When you type with two fingers, you happen to touch the screen with
both at once sometimes and with our resistive touchscreen that
registers a touch somewhere between the two touchpoints. Probably not
that much of a problem, though, because you get used to avoiding this.
I think it's something that should be tried, especially for a number
pad. For a full sized keyboard, the buttons get too small for thumbs.
I think the solution for full text input is one-finger-sliding.
(Quickwriting)

Ortwin

On 6/9/08, Steven Milburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Chris Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> ...The keyboard itself has very minimal needs in terms of resolution, but
>> it
>> steals about a third of the screen in portrait mode, more in landscape
>> -- 640x480 is probably a bare minimum.
>
>
> Chris's comment about the keyboard in landscape mode popped an image into my
> head.  Maybe it's been mentioned already, but I don't recall.  The keyboard
> for landscape mode could be split in two and have half on the right, and
> half on the left.  I think that may make it more suitable for thumb typing
> and take less area away.
>
> Someone will probably ask me to mock it up, but I'm a HW guy, so you really
> don't want me to try :)
>
> --Steve M
>

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Re: Is case design changing for GTA03?

[Ortwin Regel]

Well, with Bluetooth it would have to have it's own power source (or
be connected to one) so USB sounds most reasonable. It might even
contain an USB hub and expose a number of full size USB ports, maybe
including Y-cable functionality for charging while being host.

Ortwin

On 6/8/08, Ulrik Rasmusen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Through the USB interface maybe? Or maybe via bluetooth, then there
> would be no need to worry about a dangling usb cable.
>
> On Sun, Jun 08, 2008 at 07:31:13PM +0200, Ortwin Regel wrote:
>> lol, I almost forgot that... The only open question is how to connect
>> the buttons to the phone.
>>
>> On 6/8/08, Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > Sunday 08 June 2008 Ortwin Regel wrote:
>> >> Wow, that's quite awesome! I read around a little and it seems to be
>> >> made by CraigX who is also behind the Pandora and is interested in
>> >> selling Openmoko phones in the UK. So getting him to make a variant of
>> >> this design for future (or present?) Openmoko phones might actually be
>> >> a realistic possibility!
>> >
>> >   Well, seeing as though the schematics for the case are freely
>> > available,
>> > he
>> > wouldn't even need to make it hook onto the existing case, he could
>> > potentially make it a *proper* case :)
>> >
>> > --
>> > ..Dan // Leinir..
>> > http://www.leinir.dk/
>> >
>> >   Co-
>> > existence
>> >   or no
>> > existence
>> >
>> >   - Piet Hein
>> >
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>> >
>>
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Re: Yummy new CPU/GPU combo

[Ortwin Regel]

The number I heard was a first run of 3000... ;) (and 100 prototype
devices before that)

Ortwin

On 6/8/08, Gabriel Ambuehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sunday 08 June 2008 14:23:29 Carsten Haitzler wrote:
>> 500k+ are the order sizes. often in multi-millions. that is what they
>> "start" dealing with. it's like going to cost-co who sell beer by the case
>> and going "but we only want 1 bottle!" (sorry - buy the case, or go
>> somewhere else). :)
>
> So there are half a million Pandora consoles in the making right now?
>
>

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Re: Is case design changing for GTA03?

[Ortwin Regel]

lol, I almost forgot that... The only open question is how to connect
the buttons to the phone.

On 6/8/08, Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sunday 08 June 2008 Ortwin Regel wrote:
>> Wow, that's quite awesome! I read around a little and it seems to be
>> made by CraigX who is also behind the Pandora and is interested in
>> selling Openmoko phones in the UK. So getting him to make a variant of
>> this design for future (or present?) Openmoko phones might actually be
>> a realistic possibility!
>
>   Well, seeing as though the schematics for the case are freely available,
> he
> wouldn't even need to make it hook onto the existing case, he could
> potentially make it a *proper* case :)
>
> --
> ..Dan // Leinir..
> http://www.leinir.dk/
>
>   Co-
> existence
>   or no
> existence
>
>   - Piet Hein
>
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Re: Is case design changing for GTA03?

[Ortwin Regel]

Wow, that's quite awesome! I read around a little and it seems to be
made by CraigX who is also behind the Pandora and is interested in
selling Openmoko phones in the UK. So getting him to make a variant of
this design for future (or present?) Openmoko phones might actually be
a realistic possibility!

Ortwin

On 6/8/08, Breakable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would propose to take a look at this before any case design:
> http://www.icontrolpad.com/
> Basically its a dock for IPhone.
> So the idea is to allow the case to be integrated with other electronics.
> This allows for many cool applications, where Neo can be a brain of some
> system, that has
> additional controls, more power, external interfaces, body of a robot... etc
> ;)
>
> Regards,
> Breakable
>

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Re: resolution preferences??

[Ortwin Regel]

On 6/6/08, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>convince me vga is incredibly more useful than qvga. convince me
> you
> all have amazing eyesight! :) i am doing this because i am trying to listen
> to
> the community and if given a choice - choose the right way based on what you
> guys think, but PLEASE, be practical, and honest. be honest with yourselves.
> this is not a "my screen is higher dpi than your screen" competition. it's
> about making a nice and usable device you want.
>
> if you ask for vga, but you really can't see the difference between qvga and
> vga, you're not being honest. you're just playing the spec numbers game.

I have good eye sight and I believe many other people do, too. You
don't need very good eye sight to see the difference but I guess you
need it to fully make use of the high resolution.

What do we not need VGA for?
-Videos. The phone won't do VGA videos anyway and resolution isn't
that important when watching videos. (See the popularity of
YouTube...)
-Finger applications. Displaying huge buttons in high resolution is
beautiful but not useful.

What do we need VGA for?
-Ebook reading. I read Cory Doctorow's Someone Comes to Town, Someone
Leaves Town in very tiny font on my Neo. It was a great experience.
But even fonts that are a little bigger still profit a lot from the
high resolution.
-Web browsing. There are a lot of tricks to display web pages at low
resolutions. I haven't seen anything that works well, though. VGA is
the smallest resolution to do web browsing well.
-Other things that use text (word processor, speadsheet, calendar,
...) and stylus applications in general.
-Games. Not necessarily 3D games but things like OTTD. RTS on a
handheld becomes usable at 480*320 and fun at 640*480. Since we don't
have buttons, those are the games that are possible on current Neos.
-Maps. The tiny map portions you can fit into 320*240 aren't really useful...
-Comics. Again, 640*480 is the smalles resolution most comic pages
become readable at.
-Pictures. They can be displayed at QVGA but only at VGA they look
perfect, because it's hard to see the individual pixels. Not being
able to see the individual pixels is pretty much the point of the high
resolution!
-The text console. The terminal app is bad enough with the huge font
it is set to at the moment. Way back it had a very tiny font that
worked great. Can you imagine it at 320*240? I can't.

What future OpenMoko devices need is a bigger screen area. Making the
problem worse by decreasing the resolution to a quarter is not a good
idea. 480*320 is the lowest resolution I could live with but I'd much
rather have 800*480. When I get my Pandora, that's what I'll get used
to.

Ortwin

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Re: Yummy new CPU/GPU combo

[Ortwin Regel]

On 6/5/08, Ken Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
>
>> quick question - would you prefer a qvga lcd (save a bit of cost)
>> since we'e going to need to software-drive all graphics - the fewer
>> pixels you have to fill, the better for speed. i'm really tossing up if
>> the speed of qvga is worth the loss of resolution. i'm just not sure.
>
> Please, please, please, please, please don't drop to a QVGA LCD on
> future OM phones.   The beautiful full VGA screens on the neo and
> Freerunner are just about the only piece of hardware they have which
> is better than what you find on a typical smart phone.
>
> Ken Young
>
>
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I couldn't stand going back on resolution after having seen this
screen. 640*480 is beautiful. Decreasing the resolution to increase
speed is not worth it.

Ortwin

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Re: on screen keyboard enhaced

[Ortwin Regel]

On the actual screen that keyboard is very small. Even if you use a
stylus, you need to keep a steady hand. I don't think sliding over
fields that small would be comfortable or fast. It would be unusable
on a bus/train.

Ortwin

On 5/30/08, christooss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ortwin Regel wrote:
>> Yeah, somewhat, but I think our screen might be a little small for it.
>> I guess it needs to be prototyped.
>>
>> Ortwin
>>
>>
> http://sudharsh.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/screenshot-1.png
>
> Here is a screenshot of one of onscreen keyboard. And I don't think its
> so small.
>
> And it could be bigger if special characters (&,$,€, {,} etc.) were
> hiden. Maybe a gesture that startes at part of the screen gets you to
> special characters.
>
> I will try this in this weekend. Just mockup app. And than actual porting.
>
>> On 5/29/08, George Brooke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 29 May 2008 22:42:41 +0200
>>> christooss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> One of selected projects in google android is Writing pad which
>>>> enables writing one word per stroke with on screen keyboard
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBOyGp25sSg
>>>>
>>>> What do you think. Could this be useful on OpenMoko?
>>>>
>>>> I think its really inovative usage of on screen keyboard. I could try
>>>> to implement it on desktop machine and than when I get Freerunner
>>>> port it to OpenMoko.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> How about this (http://www.strout.net/info/ideas/hexinput.html) looks
>>> like a good idea.
>>>
>>> solar.george
>>>
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Re: on screen keyboard enhaced

[Ortwin Regel]

Yeah, somewhat, but I think our screen might be a little small for it.
I guess it needs to be prototyped.

Ortwin

On 5/29/08, George Brooke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 29 May 2008 22:42:41 +0200
> christooss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> One of selected projects in google android is Writing pad which
>> enables writing one word per stroke with on screen keyboard
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBOyGp25sSg
>>
>> What do you think. Could this be useful on OpenMoko?
>>
>> I think its really inovative usage of on screen keyboard. I could try
>> to implement it on desktop machine and than when I get Freerunner
>> port it to OpenMoko.
>>
>
> How about this (http://www.strout.net/info/ideas/hexinput.html) looks
> like a good idea.
>
> solar.george
>
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Re: early experince Freerunners w/ ASU load, vs. thousnads of Freeruners

[Ortwin Regel]

As far as I can tell everything in the article was already mentioned
on the list. Nothing new to comment on...

Ortwin

On 5/29/08, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote:
>> steve wrote:
>>> Yes mass pro will start soon. There is another batch of a few hundred
>>> or so phones being built tomorrow.
>>> I'll  Know more after tomorrows build.
>>
>> Thanks for the news Steve!
>> I'm waiting for a better ones tomorrow... :P
>
> In this Linuxtag report [1] (google translated here [2]) there are not
> so good news about production :/
> Can you share with us something more Steve?
>
> Bye
>
> [1] http://tinyurl.com/6rs6j2
> [2] http://tinyurl.com/643y64
>
> --
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> http://www.3v1n0.net/
>
>
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Re: Accellerometer spin

[Ortwin Regel]

The problem is the same as with linear acceleration: You get an
increasing deviation over time.

Ortwin

On 5/18/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Instead of adding a compass to the device to be able to read spin about the
> gravitational axis, would it not be easier to offset one of the
> accellerometers from the centre of the device?
>
> That way, the roll is uneffected and the yaw and pitch can be calculated by
> accounting for the known offset in the equ.
>
> Just a thought
> Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless handheld

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Re: Barometric altimeter on 'future' Freerunner ?

[Ortwin Regel]

I can see exotic applications for this but certainly not enough to put
it into the phone. If you need it, add it via USB host, that's what
we've got it for. (Same is true for the railgun. ;) )

Ortwin

On 5/18/08, Stroller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 17 May 2008, at 22:17, Philippe Guillebert wrote:
>> Matthias Schulze wrote:
>>> I am wondering about applications possible with the Freerunner
>>> (connected via usb) or later phone models, if a barometric altimeter
>>> would be included.
>>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Err, doesn't GPS give us a pretty accurate altitude already ?
>
> lol.
>
> No.
>
>> Event if the precision is something like +/- 20 meters, I believe
>> it's got a better accuracy than a barometric altimeter that you've
>> got to calibrate to the meteorological conditions all the time.
>
> GPS altitude precision is more like +/- 200 metres. Even cheap
> electronic altimeters are accurate to a few feet. That they need
> daily calibration makes them only of use to people who actually
> _need_ to know their height - an altimeter built into a digital
> watch, for instance, is usually no more than a gimmick, but a hang-
> glider pilot can simply hold down the "zero" button on his £100
> altimeter for 3 seconds and then knows his height accurately for the
> duration of the day's flying.
>
> Stroller.
>
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Re: Dash GPS personal nav device (uses OpenMoko) opens API

[Ortwin Regel]

Afaik yes

On 5/14/08, Vinc Duran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Ron,
> Is the Dash in the blog the same as the Dash Express on the dash.net site?
> Vinc
>
> On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Ron K. Jeffries <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>> Dash GPS  personal nav device (uses OpenMoko) opens API
>>
>> It's sorta funny, but nobody here says a word about Dash,
>> the Freerunner's red-haired step-sister device, OEM'd
>> from FIC as I understand things.
>>
>> Latest Dash news:
>> http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/13/dash-opens-up-apis-for-its-gps-device-to-outside-developers/
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> Twitter @RonKJeffries
>> mobile 805 567 4670
>> http://blog.eronj.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Questions about Freerunner: Phone Usability, Battery Life, Shipping Date

[Ortwin Regel]

That was usually called HXD8 IIRC. I wonder about GTA03, too...

Ortwin

On 5/11/08, JW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> or gta03 was the board for that gps (DASH) thing
>
> hence next phone is gta04
>
> JW
>

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Re: mobile gps gaming

[Ortwin Regel]

We'd need a compass for a working 3D world window. Else the phone
can't be certain (though it could estimate) where it is facing.

I am very interested in GPS games. A PacMan-like game that
automatically generates a level based on the surrounding Open
Streetmap data would be awesome. :) A Snake game would also be great.
Lots of possibilities probably.

Ortwin

On 4/30/08, Crane, Matthew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yea, I'm excited too.  I was thinking it would be possible to use the
> accelerometer + GPS to make the phone act like a "window" into the game
> world.  Where you can look around in 3d.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 9:53 PM
> To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> Subject: Re: mobile gps gaming
>
>
> Robin Paulson wrote:
> > i just listened to an interesting piece on the bbc about gps gaming on
> > mobile phones:
>
>
> There was a group of people in some major American city a year or so ago
>
> that played a city-wide game of PacMan using GPS-enabled phones...
> teammates would lead the 'ghost' characters to where the PacMan
> character was, and so on. Got a fair bit of press.
>
> I'm excited at what the Freerunner will be capable of in this regard, as
>
> it would be FAR easier to write/play GPS games with an open phone.
>
> -id
>
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Re: OpenMoko Remote Controller (SoC)

[Ortwin Regel]

What makes you think the Wii accellerometers are inaccurate? They feel
pretty precise as far as I can tell...

Ortwin

On 4/27/08, David Murrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Wait a minute...
>
> /me backs up the metaphorical truck...
>
> Just _how_ accurate are these accelerometers?
>
> Are we talking the sorta half second delay with exagerated drunk movements
> required to operate the nintendo wii, or precise movements that can catch my
> cat doing the sideways wiggle in realtime before she jumps at something if I
> was to strap it to her?
> (Yes, I realise that attaching a phone to a cat is like trying to pin the
> tail on a live donkey, you get one chance, and then its all pain, but I
> digress)
>
> TTFN,
> David
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Flemming Richter
> Mikkelsen
> Sent: Sunday, 27 April 2008 5:56 a.m.
> To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> Subject: Re: OpenMoko Remote Controller (SoC)
>
> On 4/26/08, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > It would be nice if we can choose between input.
> > Sometimes it is nice to use the touchscreen as a mice, while other
> > times I would prefer the accelerometers (e.g.
> > if you want to use the display to something else at the same time).
>
> ... and if you use the accelerometers, you can actually move the device just
> like if it was a mice:) That would be very cool. Tilting is also an
> alternative and should be implemented before this regular mice behavor
> thing, since it is a lot more easy to code.
>
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>
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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

[Ortwin Regel]

Yes, I'm pretty sure there will only be the pure black color scheme.

On 4/21/08, Ivo Anjo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yeah, they're pretty big, although the camera seems to be pretty bad.
>
> Btw I was under the impression that the freerunner case was black with
> grey, like the 1973 on this picture:
> http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/boxNextTo1973.jpg . Is the
> shipped version going to be all black?
>
> Ivo
>
> On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 8:53 PM, Kosa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > too small? They don't fit on my 20" iMac (running linux btw). What kind of
> > monitor do you have? :O
> >
> >  I cannot belive my eyes! I'm just too happy for watching this!
> >
> >  Thanks Michel Shiloh
> >
> >  Cheers!
> >
> >  Kosa
> >
> >  - Un mundo mejor es posible -
> >
> >
> >
> >  Richard Reichenbacher escribió:
> >
> >
> >
> > > The pictures are too small.  Can you make post up bigger ones?
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
> Shiloh
> > > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:38 PM
> > > To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
> > > Subject: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner
> > >
> > > Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are
> > just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:
> > >
> > > http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/
> > >
> > > If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to
> turn
> > this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the
> > assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing GTA02
> > samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need my permission -
> > download these photographs, they are direct copies of my originals, and
> > create what you want.
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
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Re: Do we REALLY need a phone?

[Ortwin Regel]

The problem with small handheld devices is that most of the time it's
cheaper to put everything into the device than to create variants.
Modularity causes problems with design and space and is also
expensive.
I also still need a GSM modem and will for a few years. Sure, I'd like
to use WLAN, Bluetooth and UMTS whenever possible but these networks
don't cover the whole country / most of the planet. When there is no
other network, I need GSM to get onto the internet, even if it's slow.

Ortwin

On 4/20/08, Stefano Cavallari <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> (sorry for the length of this message)
> I was thinking today about how the phone system is quite dead without no one
> noticing it. We are paying unreasonable tariffs for just sending data which
> happens to be voice. The whole motivation behind having a number is no
> longer
> existent as with portability and roaming you don't do switching anymore.
> So you don't want to access the telephone network, you want to access the
> Internet, then do whatever you want from there.
> Yes in the meantime you may still want to do normal calls but the focus is
> in
> doing VoIP and IM.
> Because of this I think the next moko should be designed around this and be
> mainly a handheld. With no included GSM module so you can focus in the
> interesting part of the product and don't bet on the next mainstream
> communication technology (mobile wimax? UMTS? EDGE? CDMA something?) and
> just
> provide the one you are sure they will be supported for much time (wifi,
> bluetooth).
> Then you just provide some module to access the chosen network, like a SDIO
> card (probably with a big external part like most wifi ones).
> I was thinking of a beast like a bluetooth UMTS dongle. There are already
> USB
> UMTS dongle right now which emulates a serial port. So it's a no brainer to
> take an existing design, strip the usb-serial chip and put a
> bluetooth-serial
> chip and a battery (the usual nokia one which most GPS and the Neo uses).
> This gives the advantage of not having a powerful antenna attached to the
> ear
> (when talking) or anyway near you (when messaging, browsing).
> You can put it near a window and get better signal, and so on.
> Of course some may find the SDIO more appealing or not. Anyway if you keep
> this component separated you let the user choose whether they really need
> GSM, you can develop the hardware WAY faster and most important, you don't
> have to wait for the comm. modules to be functional to start selling, and if
> a comm. module happens to be a total market/design/whatever failure you
> still
> have the main product (the handheld) selling well.
>
> Just my (long) 2 ¢
> --
>
>

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Re: Freerunner and Earthquakes

[Ortwin Regel]

Yes, AFAIK GPS requires accurate time to function.

Ortwin

On 4/19/08, Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sat April 19 2008 5:29:50 pm Richard Guest wrote:
> > Yeah, it's an interesting idea.
> > I read something similar on Evil Mad Scientist
> > http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/seismometry2
> >
> > The detection/pinpointing part requires both accurate detection of shaking
> > and timing - obviously the timing is critical for triangulation.
> >
> > I think the *cool* factor for something like this would be the ability to
> > measure a persons actual physical experience of an earthquake. There are
> > *lots* of existing seismometers that will do the *fixed* point detection a
> > whole lot better, but none (that I know of) that will be (relatively)
> > unobtrusive to the users daily life and still give an actual measurement
> of
> > physical shaking intensity.
> >
> > You shouldn't have to wait that long for e/q info... In New Zealand the
> > news media mostly regurgitate what we post on http://www.geonet.org.nz/
> > There's near-realtime shaking info on the front page, and if there's
> > actually an earthquake people can submit a "Felt Report" to tell us how
> > they experienced it.
> > It would be really cool to see how a personal accelerometer trace
> > correlates to the fuzzy-logic of the felt report!
> >
> >
> > End thoughts...
> >
> > --
> > Rich
> >
> > On 20/04/2008, Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > After recently having a 5.2 earthquake here in the Midwest, I realized
> > > the potential in the Openmoko for detecting/pinpointing earthquakes.
> > > What this
> > > is mostly dependant on is the accuracy of the accelerometers in the
> > > Freerunner.  From what I've read, Macbooks' accelerometers and detect
> and
> > > measure earthquakes fairly accurately. [1]  If the Freerunner's
> > > accelerometers are precise enough and it could be attached to a fixed
> > > ground,
> > > we could use GPS to retreive an accurate location and record and upload
> > > accelerometer data to a database.  Many different devices running this
> > > could
> > > provide intensity levels at many different locations and (at least
> fairly
> > > accurately), pinpoint an epicenter.  This data could become useful to
> > > researchers and would provide information about an earthquake faster
> than
> > > almost any news network would provide.
> > >
> > > Thoughts?
> > >
> > > [1] http://www.suitable.com/tools/seismac.html
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > 
> > > Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > http://onedollarlinux.com
> > > BLOG - http://onedollarlinux.com/personal/
> > >
> > > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> > > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> > >
> > > ___
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>
> Wouldn't GPS provide an accurate time?  I thought GPS sends its own official
> time, like an atomic clock.  I could be wrong.  Anyone know more about this?
>
> --
> 
> Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> http://onedollarlinux.com
> BLOG - http://onedollarlinux.com/personal/
>
> Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>

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Re: Freerunner and Earthquakes

[Ortwin Regel]

Sounds like an awesome idea! :D

Ortwin

On 4/19/08, Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> After recently having a 5.2 earthquake here in the Midwest, I realized the
> potential in the Openmoko for detecting/pinpointing earthquakes.  What this
> is mostly dependant on is the accuracy of the accelerometers in the
> Freerunner.  From what I've read, Macbooks' accelerometers and detect and
> measure earthquakes fairly accurately. [1]  If the Freerunner's
> accelerometers are precise enough and it could be attached to a fixed
> ground,
> we could use GPS to retreive an accurate location and record and upload
> accelerometer data to a database.  Many different devices running this could
> provide intensity levels at many different locations and (at least fairly
> accurately), pinpoint an epicenter.  This data could become useful to
> researchers and would provide information about an earthquake faster than
> almost any news network would provide.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> [1] http://www.suitable.com/tools/seismac.html
>
> --
> 
> Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> http://onedollarlinux.com
> BLOG - http://onedollarlinux.com/personal/
>
> Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>

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Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

[Ortwin Regel]

That's also something I'd like to know as my Minty Boost supposedly
does up to ~250 mA and I'd like to use that much if possible.
The Neo 1973 doesn't have the necessary hardware to detect chargers,
though, or does it?

Ortwin

On 4/19/08, Hans L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Great summary Michael, and a good discussion.  It would be nice to see
> the ability to support other fast chargers in the future.  That is one
> of my pet peeves about cell phones is that it seems every single
> company(and often even every model made by that company) has it's own
> specific charger which is incompatible with anything else.
>
> Michael Shiloh wrote:
> >  In summary, the Neo can charge at 3 different rates: 100mA, 500mA, and
> 1A.
>
> Just to be absolutely clear, are these 3 rates hardwired into the
> circuitry?  Or might it be possible in the future to support(through
> only software changes) some charger that has for example a max rating
> of 750mA, and get the maximum output from it.
> The discussion up to this point seems to indicate that the best that
> could be done with this theoretical charger would be 500mA.  I suppose
> it doesn't make a huge difference, but something I'd like to know for
> sure.
>
> - Hans Loeblich
>
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Re: Terminology (was: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port)

[Ortwin Regel]

That would obviously require the CPU though not the screen so it
should be what Mickey calls standby. It's important to note that this
is again not one single mode but can probably appear at different CPU
speeds, with Bluetooth/WLAN on or off etc.

Ortwin

On 4/19/08, Jens Fursund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Good idea to put this straight. In what mode would you expect listening
> to audio would be?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jens
>
> On Sat, 2008-04-19 at 14:37 +0100, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
> > Guys,
> >
> > you really need to set the terminology straight here otherwise we spread
> FUD.
> >
> > Feature phones only differ between talk time and standby time.
> > For us, it's a bit more complicated, since we have more modes.
> >
> > Can we agree on the following:
> >
> > usage time = CPU is powered on, lots of peripherals have power and you're
> > actually talking and doing lots of things.
> >
> > standby time = CPU is powered on, but the display and most peripherals are
> off
> > to save power. You are doing something that requires the CPU to be on
> though.
> >
> > suspend time = CPU is powered off. only gsm (and RTC and some other wakeup
> > sources) are listening for events.
> >
> > Now I _personally_ expect the following from FreeRunner:
> >
> > usage time = 2 to 8 hours, depending on what you're actually doing
> > standby time = 10 hours
> > suspend time = 2-3 days
> >
> > ___
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Re: DHL has a package for me!

[Ortwin Regel]

Naja, wirklich korrekt wäre:
Ihren Ausweis, bitte!
;)

On 4/15/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, April 15, 2008 17:09, Kevin Dean wrote:
> > Ihre Ausweis!
> >
>  Korrekt:
>
> Ihren Ausweis Bitte!
>
>
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Re: Mini jack 2.5mm?

[Ortwin Regel]

Space reasons. I've been told that most phones use 2,5mm today for that reason.

On 4/15/08, Alexander Frøyseth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hei
> I just wonder why it is 2.5mm and not 3.5mm mini jack.
> After what I know 3.5mm is what is normaly used inn headsets
>
> Alexander Frøyseth
>
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[Ortwin Regel]

I do! Well, actually I probably won't get a Freerunner as I have a
1973 and limited amounts of money. However, I'd like my next phone to
be in black with pink parts. B) Even more appreciated would be lime
green and pink but I'm probably the only person in the world who wants
that...

Ortwin

On 4/15/08, Bastian Muck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Has somebody eaten a clown this morning at breakfast? ;-)
>
> Of course noone really wants a pink freerunner, does someone?
>
> steve schrieb:
> | When I did my first MP3 in Aluminum I ran out and had it anodized gold!
> | I was lucky to find a place that was set up to do gold. Most
> | are set up for clear, black, red and blue. Guy didn't even charge me.
> |
> |
> |
> |
> | -Original Message-
> | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
> | Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:33 PM
> | To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> | Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
> |
> | My daughter requests pink.
> |
> | Maybe the only one.
> |
> | I suggest we make them all white and include a pack of magic markers, so
> | you can color them any color you wish, or decorate to your heart's
> content.
> |
> | Half jokingly,
> | Michael
> |
> | steve wrote:
> |> Ok,
> |>
> |>   Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model.  When I
> |> get to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what
> |> ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on the
> |> innards and not the cosmetics.
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |> -Original Message-
> |> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> |> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas
> |> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM
> |> To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> |> Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
> |>
> |> Robin Paulson wrote:
> |>> 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> |>>>  I also would like to have - may be separately:
> |>>>  - Stylus
> |>> personally, i'd want:
> |>> *a modified charger (if one is made)
> |>> *a pouch
> |>> included, and that's it
> |>
> |> I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a must-have.
> |> Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo (and I'm
> |> sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 was but oh
> |> well), but include *something*.
> |>
> |> -id
> |>
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> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFIBCfNlYiDScJJ+7QRAh9tAJ4/Tqqr+PTRj5NVw0VaaltWG0wF9wCgmzk5
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Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA 03?

[Ortwin Regel]

Well, it would mean that the casing changes significantly. That means
lots of work and cost so it's not a trivial change. I don't think it's
worth doing this (or even reasonably possible in time) before the next
hardware revision.

Ortwin

On 4/15/08, Carlo E. Prelz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   Subject: Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, 
> GTA
> 03?
>   Date: Mon 14 Apr 08 08:55:41PM -0500
>
> Quoting Jae Stutzman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
>
> > I vote for current GTA02 features plus 3G and USB2.0!
>
> I warmly suggest that FIC produce a GTA02.2 - same hardware, but with
> a QWERTY keyboard... Form-factor similar to nokia e61. This should not
> require such a long and difficult development process.
>
> Carlo
>
>
> --
>   * Se la Strada e la sua Virtu' non fossero state messe da parte,
> * K * Carlo E. Prelz - [EMAIL PROTECTED] che bisogno ci sarebbe
>   *   di parlare tanto di amore e di rettitudine? (Chuang-Tzu)
>
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Re: PVT Update.

[Ortwin Regel]

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
Still, poor Freerunners... :'(

On 4/14/08, Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One minute of silence for the dead freerunner, death to ensure a product
> free of defects :)
>
> 2008/4/14, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> >
> >   The last of DVT testing is I think complete. These are destructive
> > tests.
> > Where we try to break the phone.
> >
>

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Re: LCD protector

[Ortwin Regel]

Well, maybe if you ask nicely he will ship to the US anyway.

On 4/13/08, Ajit Natarajan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Ortwin Regel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > A German ebay seller has some that are advertised as being made for
> > the Neo 1973 (and should thus work fine on the Freerunner as it has
> > the same case and screen dimensions):
> >
> http://cgi.ebay.de/18x-Schutzfolie-Computer-Neo-1973-Tuch_W0QQitemZ290145736835QQihZ019QQcategoryZ38950QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247
>
> Thanks.
>
> This eBay seller says:
>
> Versand nach: Deutschland
>
> which translates to ``ship to: Germany'' according to the online German
> -> English dictionary.  I presume this means that the seller will not
> ship outside Germany.  I am in the U.S., so this won't work :( .
>
> Ajit
>
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Re: LCD protector

[Ortwin Regel]

A German ebay seller has some that are advertised as being made for
the Neo 1973 (and should thus work fine on the Freerunner as it has
the same case and screen dimensions):
http://cgi.ebay.de/18x-Schutzfolie-Computer-Neo-1973-Tuch_W0QQitemZ290145736835QQihZ019QQcategoryZ38950QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247
They are a little too big but work well nonetheless. It's difficult to
attach them without bubbles, though. However, you get 18 of them so
you can practice a lot. I can't remember whether the instructions that
came with it were in German or in English... It amounts to slowly
attaching the protector millimeter for millimeter while all the time
rubbing out the bubbles. I've heard this works best in a wet
environment. Obviously there shouldn't be much dust around and you
should clean your screen properly.

Ortwin

On 4/12/08, Ajit Natarajan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> A friend of mine who owns an iPhone purchased an LCD protector.  It is a
> sheet of clear material cut to the dimensions of the LCD screen.  When
> affixed to the screen, it doesn't affect touch screen operation.
> However, it resists scratching and fingerprints can simply be wiped off.
>
> Is this something that will be needed on the Freerunner?  Or does the
> Freerunner come with a scratch resistant screen/coating?  If a protector
> is needed, will there be an option to purchase it?
>
> My friend told me that one needs to be careful when affixing the
> protector, or ``bubbles'' will result.  It would be great if
> instructions could be included with the protector on the best technique
> to affix it.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ajit
>
>
>
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Quikwriting

[Ortwin Regel]

Quikwriting is the best input method for finger input on a small
touchscreen like the Neo's that I have come across.
http://mrl.nyu.edu/~perlin/demos/quikwriting.html
There have been positive comments towards it on the list before.
Does anyone have the time, motivation and ability to implement this on
Openmoko? It would be very useful for me. :)

Ortwin

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Re: Smart LCD birght/dim...

[Ortwin Regel]

Exactly my thoughts: This sounds way too complicated to actually be
useful. I'd rather adjust my brightness manually.

On 4/12/08, Nick Guenther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 8:50 PM, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Since Freerunner won't have an hardware light sensor to set its LCD
> > brightness, I got some ideas about smartly changing the luminance of the
> > GTA02 screen to save its battery (still with an unknown life time :/).
> >  Of course they aren't and never will be precise as an hardware sensor is,
> > but it's the only thing we have:
> >
> >  1) Setting the brightness following the hour of the day: also if the
> phone
> > can't know if it's sunny or cloudy, neither if you're indoor or outdoor,
> > it's clear that just knowing the hour of the day, the date and your
> latitude
> > (to be set once via GPS) the phone can easily know when the sun will rise
> > and set, and so it will be possible increasing or reducing the LCD
> > brightness.
> >  Also if you're indoor, I guess that when the sun is "gone" you won't need
> > so much luminance...
> >
> >  2) Using personal profiles that follow your habits: you could define, for
> > each hour of each week day the "presumed" luminance, using something like
> a
> > calendar. I mean, if on working-days I generally stay indoor every day
> from
> > 8:30 to 13:00 and from 15:00 to the 19:00 I figure that on these intervals
> I
> > don't need all the LCD power, so I'll set in my "calendar" that on such
> > interval I'll be indoor...
> >  I guess that many of you would follow a routine durning the week, why
> don't
> > educate your phone for it!?
> >
> >  3) Setting the luminance following the weather. Of course I've no light
> > sensors, neither a barometer :P, but if I've a working connection
> available
> > I could use the weather data downloaded every few minutes (60, for
> example)
> > from internet to change my screen brightness (of course merging these
> > informations with points 1 and 2)
> >
> >  What do you think about them?
> >  I do think that they are really simple to implement, and that also if
> they
> > won't guarantee a perferct result, they could be a "smart" workaround.
> >
> >  --
> >  Treviño's World - Life and Linux
> >  http://www.3v1n0.net/
> >
>
>
> Or you could just... dim it after a few seconds and go blank after a
> minute like every other phone does. If we try to solve this by complex
> heuristics we're
> 1) going to get it wrong
> 2) going to end up wasting more battery in doing the computations than
> we save by them.
>
>
> -Nick
>
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Re: accelerometer thought

[Ortwin Regel]

Good idea as long as it's easy to turn it off.

On 4/11/08, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Friday 11 April 2008 03:12:45 Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
> > It occurred to me as I was thinking about use cases that a setting in
> > which the phone would be on vibrate while vertical (as in clipped to
> > my belt) and ring when horizontal (as in lying on a table) would suit
> > my typical use about 99% of the time.
>
> Hehe, that's amazing. So simple and effective. Same here -- what do the
> others
> think?
>
> :M:
>
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Re: Wireless charger for Neo

[Ortwin Regel]

Why not simply use standard wireless USB chargers?

On 4/1/08, Alexey Feldgendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello!
>
> Some mobile phone vendors are now looking into wireless charging. A
> wireless charger technology is more user-friendly than the traditional
> wired phone chargers. However, users will only truly benefit from the
> interoperability between chargers for different phones if the vendors
> agree on a common protocol; otherwise, we'll have the same situation as we
> have now with wired chargers: every phone vendor makes their own charger
> incompatible with the others.
>
> In fact, an open protocol for transfer of electricity over IP has existed
> since 2002: RFC 3251 . After DVE
> (Discrete Voltage Encoding), the electric current can be quickly and
> securely transmitted to one or more devices over WiFi or Bluetooth in an
> MPLampS infrastructure. A consumer device can then decode the voltage and
> use it to recharge its battery.
>
> Will OpenMoko, with its openness, be the first to implement MPLampS?
>
>
> --
> Alexey Feldgendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com
>
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Re: TomTom on Openmoko?

[Ortwin Regel]

On 3/27/08, David Pottage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Thu, March 27, 2008 1:33 pm, Christ van Willegen wrote:
>
> > Have you seen the progress that's been made in The Netherlands?
> >
> > i.e.:
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.375&lon=5.24898&zoom=17&layers=B0FT
> > (yes, there are houses on there...)
>
> It is very good. Presumably data from a Dutch publicly funded mapping
> agency has been uploaded into the OSM databases.
>
> By comparison if you zoom out an scroll south until you get to the border
> with Belgium, the situation is very different. Major towns are just dots
> on the map with perhaps the road thought the center but nothing else. The
> situation for France appears to be even worse. The motorway network
> appears to be complete, but much of the national trunk road network is
> missing, let alone most towns and local roads. If you attempted to use an
> OSM based satellite navigation system for a journey across France you
> would not get very far.
>
> What I am saying is that the OSM project looks promising and is a great
> idea, but without major contributions from big publicly funded databases
> it is only ever going to be a collection of small areas with good detail
> separated by vast areas where just major roads are shown. Unlike a
> software project like Linux the contributions from a few hundread talented
> developers will never be enough. Unless a public body pays for it, The
> only way for a particular town to get mapped is for an OSM enthusiast
> _in_that_town_ to spend a lot of their time recording routes along every
> street, and then editing it all together. I just don't think there will be
> enough enthusiasts do do that outside major university towns.
>
> --
> David Pottage
>
> Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.
>
>
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I disagree. At the moment, very few people have GPS equipped devices.
This will change rapidly in the future as GPS chips become the next
thing being put into every mobile phone. I am sure that Open Streetmap
will start to grow as fast as Wikipedia, then, and soon be unbeatable
in being up-to-date and complete. Just look at how fascinated people
were and are with Google Earth! If it's pretty easy for them to
contribute, many will.

At this point I don't worry about how complete OSM is. I worry about
how I can contribute to make it more complete! Sounds like it's
already possible to gather data for it with the Neo. I'll start asap.

Ortwin

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Re: Openmoko strives for openness

[Ortwin Regel]

What would be interesting to know: What is the next thing Openmoko
wants to do? A GTA03  Neo device with some changes in functionality
but keeping the general design? An entirely new device with possibly
other/revolutionary design goals? Multiple devices at the same time?

How about a TI OMAP3 as SoC? They seem to somewhat support open source
& Linux though I'm not sure to what extent and if they can be pushed
further in the right direction.
http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbusplashcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&contentId=4752
http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/gencontent.tsp?contentId=36915
http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/omap3530.html
Pandora ( http://www.openpandora.org/ ) uses the OMAP 3530. I'd like
to see a similarly powerful, similar form factor Openmoko device.
Maybe a cooperation with the Pandora guys would be possible, adding
Bluetooth and phone functionality to it?

Putting the rootfs on an internal microSD card sounds like it would
make sense. I'd like to have a second SD slot though, that is easier
to access. Full SD would be nice for that but microSD probably more
practical in a phone.

I don't have much of a clue about these things but here is what the
boot mechanism should make possible:
The first part starting the system has to be permanent and only
flashable with some effort (debug board). It should never need a
reflash. This part has to check if the user wants to start up normally
(power button) or wants to reflash the internal memory (power + aux).
The internal memory would contain everything that can change, such as
the boot loader and the OS. Flashing needs to be possible over USB. So
what needs to change is that flashing the internal memory isn't a
function of the bootloader, which sits in internal memory, but rather
something put into a part that boots up first and can't be changed
without the debug board and thus not destroyed by a virus or software
failures. The need of a debug board for repairing messed up software
would vanish.

Ortwin


On 3/19/08, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I wanted to point out to you something that has been happening quietly
> for awhile now.
>
> Often discussions start on Openmoko internal mailing lists. Suddenly we
> realize the discussion is important and that there is no reason for it
> to remain internal.
>
> There is a constant trend of moving these discussions from internal
> lists to public lists. Many Openmoko employees do this, but I'd
> particularly like to publicly thank Wolfgang Spraul for championing this
> and for setting up a culture that encourages everyone to think in these
> terms.
>
> I realize that often you, the world outside, see these discussions
> appear on the external lists and perhaps don't realize that this is a
> deliberate action on our part to hold as much discussion as possible in
> public rather than private forums.
>
> Regards,
> Michael
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: Post- GTA02
> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:27:47 +
> From: Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi folks -
>
> We had some internal talk about how to go post GTA02 and Wolfgang wants
> us to make it external.
>
> We have a choice about basing on S3C2443 or S3C6400. A lot of the info
> is confidential but not these high level things which are public domain
> on Samsung's site.
>
> S3C2443 is an 130nm incremental improvement over the 2442 in GTA02 with
> 480Mbps USB Device (not OTG) and better clock scaling. It can accept
> x16 DDR memory.
>
> S3C6400 is 90nm and has 480Mbps USB2 OTG, 667MHz max clock, some 2D
> acceleration and can accept x32 DDR memory.
>
> http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/productInfo.do?fmly_id=229&partnum=S3C6400
> http://www.samsung.com/global/system/business/semiconductor/product/2007/8/21/661267ptb_s3c6400_rev15.pdf
>
> I like the 6400 better but information is a bit scarce right now and it
> can go either way.
>
> Some other concepts kicked around:
>
> - Merge the debug board function on to the phone, perhaps with internal
> micro USB used for debricking and hacking. No write-once memory.
>
> - Discard U-Boot, minimal bootloader direct to kernel
>
> - Focus on SD Card rootfs rather than internal memory
>
> - Add a small lowpower MPU like TI MPS430 to manage everything
> seamlessly when main CPU is down. Stuff like motion sensors, wake
> sources, battery management, maybe touchscreen, leds so there is an
> always-on "guiding hand" in the phone that is consistent and reliable
>
> To be clear though -- GTA02 is soon going to actually exist, and this is
> just future talk right now. But because of that, if you have any ideas
> about future arch, now is the time to throw them in and they will at
> least get the time of day.
>
> - -Andy
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.or

Re: OpenMoko and accessories design

[Ortwin Regel]

How about using Bluetooth? Yeah, it would be a little strange but
think of it like this: You could take your phone out of the cradle
when it has finished charging and it would continue playing music
while you'd read the next chapter of your ebook in your bed.
With WLAN and Bluetooth, the only thing you really need a physical
connection for is charging.

Ortwin

On 3/12/08, Etienne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I know that what I'm gonna ask for is coming in quite late regarding the
> state
> of the design of the Neo, but still, I have to ask.
>
> I can see quite an opportunity for the Freerunner to be a device around
> which
> anybody can design additionnal accessories, thanks to the "open" philosophy
> around it. I especially would like to see (or design myself) some kind of
> "base
> station" like the ones existing for the iPod with high-quality loudspeakers.
> Something like that would obviously provide a mean to recharge the phone
> battery, but could also be designed to provide conference-call features
> around
> the Freerunner.
>
> However, from a mechanical point of view, I can see a major show-stopper,
> being
> the fact that the Freerunner connectors are positionned on both sides of the
> device, which leads to no solution to easily drop the device on a base
> station.
> I know I'm asking for a big change, but is there any chance the layout can
> be
> re-arranged so that the on/off button and the audio connector switch
> positions
> in the Freerunner ?
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Etienne
>
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Re: Multi-touch: Many questions to one desire....

[Ortwin Regel]

On 3/4/08, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I have thought a bit about multitouch and its possible usecases and the
> longer
> I think about it the less exciting I find it on a mobile phone.
>
> The technology per se is great and I'm sure it will allow for great
> innovation
> among UI's on large monitors, tablets, and even desks.
>
> However, on small screen systems such as the Neo (or even the iPhone) --
> what
> do you want to do with it? The ubiquitous zooming and rotating examples are
> not convincing me at all. With some clever state logic you can zoom and
> rotate very efficient on unitouch systems.
>
> So... where are those usecases that apply to a phone?
>
> :M:
>

If there will ever be a dedicated OpenMoko gaming device, it needs a
multitouch screen. However, with a phone, even if it is a fully
featured pocket computer, I can't think of many things where it would
be useful, either. Zooming and rotating should be very doable with one
finger and some thinking. In fact, much of this thinking was already
done on this list months ago.

When multitouch screens become cheap and easy to get, of course one
should be included in every Openmoko device. For now it seems like a
very low priority thing. We haven't even begun to explore the
potential of a unitouch screen!

I don't want much right clicking on my phone. However, if it ever
becomes useful/necessary somewhere, you can always assign it to
AUX+tap.

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Re: iphone-haptic

[Ortwin Regel]

On 3/3/08, Gilbert Hartmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Does anyone know how this compares to the feedback on the Wii when using the
> keyboard? It sounds fairly similar (save for the Wii's lack of a
> touchscreen)
>
> - --Bert

It should be similar but there is a major difference: On the Wii you
get vibration feedback all the time while you are pointing at the
screen. On the Neo you only get vibration feedback when touching the
screen and touching the screen already means that you are pressing a
button. (On a standard touchscreen keyboard at least.)


To make vibration feedback with a tapping-keyboard more useful, the
force of the vibration could indicate whether you hit a key right in
the middle or more to the rim (and thus maybe hit the wrong key). I'm
not sure how much the force of a short vibration can be tuned on the
Neo but this is certainly something worth finding out.

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Re: iphone-haptic

[Ortwin Regel]

On 3/2/08, Andrea Debortoli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> what about this??
>
> http://code.google.com/p/iphone-haptics/
>
> it would be very useful to have on FreeRunner too!!!
>

I have doubts about the usefulness of vibrator feedback. It can't help
you find a button or tell you whether you pressed the right one. All
it does is tell you that you pressed a button at all. That might be a
little better than no feedback at all but it can't replace much of the
visual or audible feedback. To make this more useful, interaction with
the touchscreen would need to include more sliding motions and less
tapping because with a sliding motion you can give constant vibration
feedback.

Ortwin

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Re: Idea of a voice mail application

[Ortwin Regel]

And people just accept paying for incoming connections?! I still can't
get over how US phone contracts work... O.o

On 3/2/08, Mark Haury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >On 29 Feb 2008, at 17:34, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote:
> >
> >> siaPeter Trapp ha scritto:
> >>> Hi everybody,
> >>> I thought about the possibility of a voice mail installed on the
> >>> neo.  The idea is to let the application decide if you are
> >>> reachable for the caller or not. The decision will be done on
> >>> profiles (time, who is calling, what to do (let it ring or answer
> >>> directly) ). Eg: Saturday 10:00pm and your boss is calling (and
> >>> you have a signal)
> >>> Neo is aware that it is "weekend" and who is calling. It just
> >>> turns on the voice mail... Dear Boss, actually it is weekend and I
> >>> just don't want to get some work right now. Sorry, my neo will not
> >>> even inform me that you've called. So don't try again later. It
> >>> would not help until Monday 9am! Have a nice weekend
> >>>   --- without the possibility to leave a message  ;)
> >
> >I would like this feature also, and really I assumed it would become
> >a commonplace usage on OpenMoko.
> >
> >> Cool, but your caller will pay for this.. So maybe it won't be so
> >> happy :P
> >
> >Stuff the caller. I carry a mobile phone so I can make outgoing calls
> >when I'm away from home, not so I can be interrupted in the middle of
> >a conversation. If someone is calling me they assume that they're
> >going to incur the cost of a call, anyway, so I don't see that the
> >cost of a call to voicemail is a large imposition (it is probably
> >better than me answering my phone to say "stuff you", at least).
> >
> >Stroller.
>
> In the USA, the originator of the call is irrelevant. It charges against
> your plan minutes regardless of whether you are making or receiving a
> cellular call. So if software on your phone is picking up the line and
> your phone itself is acting as the answering machine, it will use up
> your minutes as well as costing the caller minutes. Actually, if they're
> using a landline and you are a local call for them, it won't cost the
> caller anything, while it uses your minutes regardless.
>
> The exception is that often if the caller and the recipient are both on
> the same network, neither is charged. I know that's true of T-Mobile.
>
> Another issue is that this function will only work if your phone is both
> turned on and in service. Of course, maybe this functionality is only
> needed in that situation anyway (e.g. you are in service and want
> to receive calls from certain people and not certain others.)
>
> That said, I still think it's an extremely useful function for the phone
> to have by virtue of its power and flexibility. If it could do things like
> give different outgoing messages based on who's calling, or forward the
> incoming message (maybe even send to email?), or automatically send a text
> message and that kind of thing, it would be really cool. The suggestions
> of real-time screening (like you can do with a home answering machine) and
> sending calls from specific numbers (or all but specific numbers) directly
> to the provider's system voicemail are great too.
>
> Mark
>

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Re: Virtual QWERTY Keyboards to be used with Fingers...

[Ortwin Regel]

On 3/1/08, Ortwin Regel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 3/1/08, Sean Moss-Pultz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 3/1/08 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > > On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 08:47:31 +0100 Karsten Ensinger
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> > >
> > > > > Sorry to jump into the thread this late, but I am wondering
> > > > > if you already examined the following Wiki-Link?
> > > > > We had a very extensive discussion about text input running
> > > > > on the community list several months ago.
> > > > > Nearly all proposals were documented on the following Wiki:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Text_Input
> > > > >
> > > > > My personal favourites are the Quickwriting (there is even
> > > > > a java demo available) and "another text input" (although
> > > > > it seems to be another implementation of this more moko-like
> > > > > implementation: http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/splash.html ).
> > > > >
> > > > > If I remember correctly, "all" participants of the discussion
> > > > > came to the conclusion, that a regular qwerty keyboard is not
> > > > > sufficient no matter how clever you "pimp" it, due to
> > > > > restriction of precision of finger typing and lack of screen
> > > > > space.
> > >
> > > i disagree. reality of the qtopia predictive keyboard and actual use
> > > of it
> > > disagrees. talk and theory is fine - actual code that works is
> > > disagreeing.
> > > users of that code are disagreeing.
> >
> > I have to agree with Raster here. Trolltech did an amazing job on their
> > QWERTY (onscreen) keypad. I highly recommend you trying it out on the
> > Neo if you haven't already. Personally, I think it's the best touchpanel
> > keyboard on the market now. Bar none.
> >
> > Sean
> >
>
> Maybe it is. I still hate it and any other form of predictive text
> input I have used so far. That doesn't mean I want to prevent anyone
> else from having it. I can understand that some people are happy with
> it and it would probably be a good idea to use it as the default input
> method. What I want is an alternative I can very easily switch to.
>
> We don't want the perfect input method because it probably doesn't
> exist. Let's agree on disagreeing and try to figure out a base set of
> alternative input mechanisms that should be included in Openmoko as
> well as making it easy for the user to install more of them.
>
> Some options I can think of that would find an audience:
> -Predictive QWERTY, maybe with different prediction modes (dictionary,
> closeness, combination, none)
> -Multitap 3*4 standard phone layout (maybe with optional prediction if
> patent issues can be avoided)
> -Dasher
> -A sliding method. My favorite, even though I never used one and don't
> really know which of the ideas floating around will be the best one.
>
> The next thing to consider is size. There are basically two options:
> -Use about 1/3 of the screen so that the running program is still
> visible. The problem with this is that the space is very small and
> some of the methods above would not work at this size or only work
> with a stylus.
> -Use pretty much the whole screen while inputting something and close
> the input method afterwards. This worked very well on my Palm device
> for two thumb landscape QWERTY input but that screen was twice as big
> as the Neo's. It is my prefered way of doing input because I don't
> need to see the program while typing. I only need to see about two
> lines of the text I last typed.
> For all methods where this makes sense, both sizes should be available.
>
>
> Last, let me describe my imaginary perfect input method:
> The input area is divided in 3*3 squares. A letter is written by
> starting on a defined square and moving over one square to end in a
> 3rd square. So every letter is a combination of 3 adjacent squares
> drawn in the right direction.
> Now here is what makes this fast and thus great: If the next letter
> you want to draw starts on the square you just ended on, you simply
> continue your slide and add two squares. This way, many letter
> combinations and even whole words could be written in one continuos
> sliding motion.
> There are 44 possible combinations (if I counted right) which should
> be plenty if we plan for a shift-combination and a numbers/special
> characters-combination.
> The character

Re: Virtual QWERTY Keyboards to be used with Fingers...

[Ortwin Regel]

On 3/1/08, Sean Moss-Pultz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 3/1/08 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 08:47:31 +0100 Karsten Ensinger
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> >
> > > > Sorry to jump into the thread this late, but I am wondering
> > > > if you already examined the following Wiki-Link?
> > > > We had a very extensive discussion about text input running
> > > > on the community list several months ago.
> > > > Nearly all proposals were documented on the following Wiki:
> > > >
> > > > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Text_Input
> > > >
> > > > My personal favourites are the Quickwriting (there is even
> > > > a java demo available) and "another text input" (although
> > > > it seems to be another implementation of this more moko-like
> > > > implementation: http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/splash.html ).
> > > >
> > > > If I remember correctly, "all" participants of the discussion
> > > > came to the conclusion, that a regular qwerty keyboard is not
> > > > sufficient no matter how clever you "pimp" it, due to
> > > > restriction of precision of finger typing and lack of screen
> > > > space.
> >
> > i disagree. reality of the qtopia predictive keyboard and actual use
> > of it
> > disagrees. talk and theory is fine - actual code that works is
> > disagreeing.
> > users of that code are disagreeing.
>
> I have to agree with Raster here. Trolltech did an amazing job on their
> QWERTY (onscreen) keypad. I highly recommend you trying it out on the
> Neo if you haven't already. Personally, I think it's the best touchpanel
> keyboard on the market now. Bar none.
>
> Sean
>

Maybe it is. I still hate it and any other form of predictive text
input I have used so far. That doesn't mean I want to prevent anyone
else from having it. I can understand that some people are happy with
it and it would probably be a good idea to use it as the default input
method. What I want is an alternative I can very easily switch to.

We don't want the perfect input method because it probably doesn't
exist. Let's agree on disagreeing and try to figure out a base set of
alternative input mechanisms that should be included in Openmoko as
well as making it easy for the user to install more of them.

Some options I can think of that would find an audience:
-Predictive QWERTY, maybe with different prediction modes (dictionary,
closeness, combination, none)
-Multitap 3*4 standard phone layout (maybe with optional prediction if
patent issues can be avoided)
-Dasher
-A sliding method. My favorite, even though I never used one and don't
really know which of the ideas floating around will be the best one.

The next thing to consider is size. There are basically two options:
-Use about 1/3 of the screen so that the running program is still
visible. The problem with this is that the space is very small and
some of the methods above would not work at this size or only work
with a stylus.
-Use pretty much the whole screen while inputting something and close
the input method afterwards. This worked very well on my Palm device
for two thumb landscape QWERTY input but that screen was twice as big
as the Neo's. It is my prefered way of doing input because I don't
need to see the program while typing. I only need to see about two
lines of the text I last typed.
For all methods where this makes sense, both sizes should be available.


Last, let me describe my imaginary perfect input method:
The input area is divided in 3*3 squares. A letter is written by
starting on a defined square and moving over one square to end in a
3rd square. So every letter is a combination of 3 adjacent squares
drawn in the right direction.
Now here is what makes this fast and thus great: If the next letter
you want to draw starts on the square you just ended on, you simply
continue your slide and add two squares. This way, many letter
combinations and even whole words could be written in one continuos
sliding motion.
There are 44 possible combinations (if I counted right) which should
be plenty if we plan for a shift-combination and a numbers/special
characters-combination.
The character layout shouldn't follow any alphabet or QWERTY logic but
instead be entirely based on language. The reason is that it would
require learning from the ground up anyway so it should be as fast as
possible once you have learned it.
The small version for only taking up 1/3 of the screen would be
perfect in 2*5 which would also result in 44 combinations (again, if I
counted them right...).
Feedback and actual implementation of this would be very welcome! In
fact, I offer 30 Paypal €uros to the first person to make this work on
my Neo (meaning it has to come with simple installation instructions).

Ortwin

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Re: Booting from SD

[Ortwin Regel]

The problem might be your u-boot version. Try this one:
http://buildhost.automated.it/u-boot-good-for-sd-boot-r13_0_2632_0.bin
It's what I've been using successfully. I never could get it to work
with other u-boot versions I tried.

Ortwin

On 2/28/08, Emre Turkay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I've downloaded the Feb.20.2008 images from
> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/?C=M;O=D
> ,
> formatted the SD card as ext3, and prepared the SD for Boot as described in
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD. When I selected boot from
> sdcard option from the boot menu I've got a long list of errors (I couldn't
> read them) just before I was about to give up I've got the text login:
> screen. The sshd was not working either.
>
> What's wrong and I wonder did anybody successfully use the boot from sd card
> option?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Emre Turkay
>

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Re: Unbutu mobile

[Ortwin Regel]

Where do you draw the line? The Freerunner should be at least at the
lower end of that spectrum.

On 2/26/08, Nils Faerber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dean Collins schrieb:
> > http://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile
> > Any thoughts?
>
> Different target:
> "Leveraging the MID
>
> MIDs typically have the following features and attributes:
>
> * Small size/form factor
> * 4 to 7 inch touch screen
> * Physical and/or virtual keyboard
> * Wi-Fi, 3G, Bluetooth, GPS, WiMAX
> * 2GB to 8GB Flash or disk storage, 256MB+ memory/512MB+ recommended
> * OpenGL 3D
> * USB, camera, head phone jack, speakers, microphone
> "
>
> Ubuntu mobile is targetting UMPC class devices, not mobile phones or PDAs.
>
> > Regards,
> > Dean Collins
> Cheers
>   nils faerber
>
> --
> kernel concepts GbRTel: +49-271-771091-12
> Sieghuetter Hauptweg 48Fax: +49-271-771091-19
> D-57072 Siegen Mob: +49-176-21024535
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Re: Request for assistance: Need a wiki page for buying and selling GTA01

[Ortwin Regel]

Wiki pages are nice but they are not really a good way to push info to
people as you would like to do if you have just put your phone on ebay
for sale. If I decided to sell my phone, I'd probably send a message
to the community mailing list. Is this wanted or would anyone be
annoyed by it? I'm not really sure but it would probably be the most
effective way to find a buyer for your phone.

Ortwin

On 2/19/08, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks everyone for your feedback. As a number of you pointed out, there
> is no security in a contact you've made via a random web page, while
> eBay has a whole system in place to provide exactly the needed security.
>
> I think it makes perfect sense to use eBay.
>
> However, I propose we use our wiki page to point at such eBay listings,
> in case anyone has difficulty finding them on eBay.
>
> So, I propose we re-purpose our wiki page to indicate eBay listings,
> perhaps sorted simply into "BUYING" and "SELLING".
>
> Sound like a plan?
>
> I thank you all for your input.
>
> Michael
>
> Michael Shiloh wrote:
> > Hi Community,
> >
> > I need your help.
> >
> > Having completely sold out of GTA01, we are still getting a large number
> > of requests for them.
> >
> > On the other hand, many of you intend to purchase a GTA02 and perhaps
> > feel you have no use for your GTA01.
> >
> > Some of you might have other reasons to sell your GTA01.
> >
> > I'd like a wiki page to allow these buyers and sellers to find each other.
> >
> > We have a wiki page for GTA01 owners who lived in 850 MHz-only areas to
> > sell their units; perhaps this page can be repurposed for this broader
> > issue.
> >
> > Perhaps we call this the OpenMoko flea market.
> >
> > Anyone?
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > ___
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> >
>
>
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Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)

[Ortwin Regel]

Can GTA01 users upgrade to this battery and would it make sense to do so?

Ortwin

On 2/14/08, Wolfgang Spraul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Andy -
>
> > class to expose it so it is generic. (I don't know for sure if it
> > will
> > ship with such a battery since it is decided in .tw according to
> > availability and so on, but I hope it will.)
>
> Yes, I think we can confirm that every GTA02 will ship with this new
> 'smart' battery.
> There are more steps to go through internally, related to
> certification, some sort of calibration. Tony, do you know more details?
> The cell's capacity will increase slightly to 1250 mAh (before was
> 1200 mAh).
> I am trying to release the schematics for the small PCB inside the
> smart battery as well, will be posted to the wiki.
>
> Wolfgang
>
> On Feb 15, 2008, at 12:43 AM, Andy Green wrote:
>
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Somebody in the thread at some point said:
> >> On Thursday, Feb 14, 2008, "Kyle Bassett" writes:
> >>> There is talk about pushing startup power control of the internal
> >>> devices
> >>> (wifi, bt, gps, mmc, etc.) to user level, as every user may or may
> >>> not want
> >>> certain devices available at bootup/all the time (availability vs.
> >>> duration).
> >>
> >> Indeed, this along with good realtime stats on power usage and
> >> current
> >> battery level would let people have reasonably accurate predictions
> >> of
> >> their battery life. It'd be interesting (to me at least) to turn
> >> on and off the various peripherals and watch my projected battery
> >> life
> >> go up and down accordingly.
> >
> > GTA02 is capable to dialogue with a "smart battery" that will allow
> > you
> > to see the battery actual voltage and current flow (together: actual
> > power) in uA down /sys in realtime, it uses the linux "Power Supply"
> > class to expose it so it is generic. (I don't know for sure if it
> > will
> > ship with such a battery since it is decided in .tw according to
> > availability and so on, but I hope it will.)
> >
> > The battery itself learns its cell performance over load and also
> > makes
> > available its "time to full/empty" estimate down /sys as well in
> > seconds. You can see what data is available here:
> >
> > http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/bq27000
> >
> > You can see stuff like this
> >
> > for i in capacity charge_full current_now present status technology
> > temp
> > time_to_empty_now time_to_full_now type voltage_now ; do echo -n "$i
> > " ; cat /sys/devices/platform/bq27000-battery.0/power_supply/bat/
> > $i ; done
> >
> > capacity 0
> > charge_full 1215585
> > current_now 183375
> > present 1
> > status Discharging
> > technology Li-ion
> > temp 276
> > time_to_empty_now 0
> > time_to_full_now 3932100
> > type Battery
> > voltage_now 2761000
> >
> > - -Andy
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> >
> > iD8DBQFHtG+yOjLpvpq7dMoRAq2TAJoCYOC+PD3gj/jRMpOPnBL5MZJkzQCfTJn4
> > 9ebCrbNjtGtDMBsJuUXZ8HY=
> > =ANtG
> > -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> >
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Re: Interview with Raider Realm

[Ortwin Regel]

It sounds like Michael was talking about GSM in general. The area not
covered by that indeed does seem negligible in the US. You have got a
different issue. From what I picked up, it is not reasonably possible
to change the hardware in a GTA01 to support the 850 Mhz band. The
best option you have is probably to sell your GTA01 and get a GTA02
that supports 850 Mhz when they become available.

Ortwin

On 2/12/08, Christopher Earl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I read the Raiders Realm interview with Michael Shiloh Here is the excerpt I
> will am talking about
>
> "RR: So is all of the hardware you have for this FCC certified and ready to
> use on different networks?
>
> MS: Yup.  Absolutely.  Now it is a GSM based phone, both models, which means
> they both use a sim card and the GSM network which is pretty common here in
> the states, but much more common in the rest of the world.  But there are
> some areas in the states that don't have coverage for that.  But that's
> pretty small.  In fact, I think it's virtually negligible."
>
> My question is of the 'Negligibility' of this issue. I do not know . nor do
> I claim to know, the number of GTA01s sold in the united states, and the
> ratio of those phones which found homes in GSM 850 areas. I would like to
> request a confirmation that this issue is being seriously addressed. I have
> sent three separate emails this month and not one person can tell me if I
> will EVER be able to send my GTA01 in for repair. I will cover the cost of
> shipping. Unfortunately I was one of the sorry bastards to get my device
> before this was a known issue. Im not asking for anything for free, nor do I
> wish to cause anyone a hassle. I only wish that the apparent few of us whom
> live in a GSM 850 Dominate state can get their devices repaired, at our
> shipping cost. If the answer is " I dont know","maybe in a few months" or
> somthing like that, fine. I just want to know IF I can count on OpenMoko/FIC
> to rectify this issue now or in the future.
>
>
>
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Re: Schematics, circuit diagrams

[Ortwin Regel]

How about a different deal: We collect donations to get you a new
phone and you make your findings public under a free license?

On 2/10/08, joerg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi hardware-hackers!
> Anybody interested in my story?
> "How i completely disassembled my GTA01, put everything on a
> needlebed-tester,
> and checked the parts"
> "(including reconstructed schematics)"
>
> Paperprint only, about 5 pages DIN-A2. No digital data.
> $79,90
> Sorry for this price, i have to buy a new GTA, for obvious reasons ;-) Old
> one
> didn't do it anymore.
> Orders will be stacked and shipped all at same day when order volume is
> sufficient.
>
>
>
> coming soon: "how i disassembled my GTA02..."
> Eagle-files
>
> free your phone!
> ;-)
> jOERG
>
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Re: 2007.11 snapshot available

[Ortwin Regel]

Tilting is an awful control method for almost anything. The main reason
being that you move the screen around while tilting. Other problems are that
it's exausting and lacks feedback. Even tilting to automatically switch the
screen orientation can be annoying if you're lying on your side in your bed
reading an ebook. I can not imagine any useful contribution of tilting to
text input.

Ortwin

On Dec 5, 2007 2:52 PM, Joseph J. McCarthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> What if you could tilt the Neo to switch keyboards instead. Or, perhaps,
> instead of multi-tap you tilt and press "2" to get "B" instead of hold
> horizontal and tap "2" to get "A".
>
> It seems that the accelerometers could be used to make the keyboard
> easier to use.
>
> Now that I am typing perhaps the coolest, would be to have something
> like a full qwerty with keys that are too big to fit the whole keyboard
> on the screen, but you tilt it to access the off-screen ones (you tilt
> left and the keyboard "slides" over so that you can get to the "L" key).
>
> Just some thoughts.
>
> Joe
>
> Krzysztof Kajkowski wrote:
> >
> > Wiadomość napisana w dniu Dec 5, 2007, o godz 10:14 AM, przez Thomas
> Wood:
> >
> >>
> >> On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 09:20 +0100, Krzysztof Kajkowski wrote:
> 
> >>>
> >>> For me it's also finger-usable keyboard - just like the one in Qtopia.
> >>> With that you can operate your phone without stylus (in most cases).
> >>
> >> Chris has worked on a multi-tap input method:
> >>
> >> http://chrislord.net/blog/Software/multitap-pad.enlighten
> >>
> >
> > That's wonderful news! What I also like in Qtopia's keyboard is ability
> > to switch between number, symbol and letters keyboard by moving you
> > finger down or up on keyboard.
> >
> >> Obviously T9 will not be implemented due to patent issues. I will ask
> >> him if the source is available anywhere.
> >>
> >
> > T9 is not necessary important (i.e. I do not use english on my phone so
> > probably I would need to hack it to include polish T9 database). It is
> > useful in SMSes but not on writing URLs or console ;)
> >
> > cayco
> > ___
> > OpenMoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
> --
> Joseph J. McCarthy, Associate Professor and
> William Kepler Whiteford Faculty Fellow
> Department of Chemical and Petroleum Engineering
> University of Pittsburgh
> 1249 Benedum Hall Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15261
> Ph. 412-624-7362; Fax 412-624-9639
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://granular.che.pitt.edu
>
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Re: need someone to develop this....

[Ortwin Regel]

On Dec 1, 2007 4:35 AM, Nkoli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Nov 30, 2007 3:34 PM, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > If Bob (or Alice) hands his (or her) phone to the other, then if both
> > phones are shaken in the same hand, the acceleration pattern might
> > provide an extremely unique yet similar signature, not unlike exchanging
> >
> > an encryption key.
> >
> > So if you want to establish a trusted relationship with another Neo
> > user, the two phones are shaken together until the software indicates
> > that you have generated a complex enough pattern that has been
> > recognized on the other.
> >
> > Once this has been established, they can exchange one of the standard
> > encryption keys.
> >
> > All without pressing a single key, and without danger of exposing
> > anything to other Neo or bluetooth devices within range.
> >
> >
> You mean... like this...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktJC0S4_X58
>
>
An interesting (though probably not as useful and secure) variation could be
to stack the phones on top of each other and have one phone send a vibration
pattern to the other. One could even exchange data that way at very very low
speeds... B)

Ortwin Regel
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Re: /. : Feds Have Access To Cellphone Tracking On Request

[Ortwin Regel]

If they suspect you anyway.

Quote: *In some cases, judges have granted the requests without even
requiring the government to demonstrate probable cause that a crime is
taking place or that the inquiry will yield evidence of a crime
*
I wonder how difficult it would be for criminals or the music industry to
obtain that data? In Germany, our bloody joke of a government has just
passed a law that orders companies to keep this data for half a year!

On Nov 26, 2007 1:19 AM, flexd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> If you just obey the law, when will they ever need to track you?
>
>
> justin daly skrev:
> > http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/23/196229&from=rss
> > 
> >
> > please don't let the rest of the world fall under the same privacy
> > stranglehold.
> >
> > i wholeheartedly support this open platform that gives its users the
> > control to turn -any- of its radios on or off at will (of the
> > operator...).
> >
> > thank you fic and openmoko! i can't wait to get some of these for my
> > friends...
> > justin daly
> > 
> >
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Re: palm apps on linux?

[Ortwin Regel]

I NEED this on my Neo, coming from a Tapwave Zodiac... I guess it's up to
Access to do it. I wonder if they've got a deal with Nokia? And if not,
what's the business model? I'd be willing to pay a reasonable sum for a Palm
emulator on my Neo.

Ortwin

On Nov 21, 2007 5:26 AM, Matthew Naftzger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I've been wondering about this:  Palm apps on linux, and of course, on
> OpenMoko in particular.  I now see it's been done for the Nokia N-tablets :
> http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/Anyway to port something
> like this over?  Is this, or a similar vm already being done?  It would give
> a wealth of apps that people are used to, and tie in with a long standing
> community that is seemingly going to be going away unless Palm has a rabbit
> up its sleeve.
>
> Matthew Naftzger
>
> www.worksofman.com
>
>
>
> "A foolish faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth"-Albert
> Einstein
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: OpenMoko phone comparisons

[Ortwin Regel]

On Nov 13, 2007 1:12 AM, Peter Naulls <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Ortwin Regel wrote:
> > On Nov 11, 2007 6:33 PM, Peter Naulls <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> >
> > I have concerns about the screen size (even though it's 640x480,
> > it's still tiny)
> >
> > The screen is small but usable. The biggest problem I see is text
> > input but there are some interesting projects and ideas flying around
> > to solve that.
> How about in terms of viewing movies or graphics - is that sensible; the
> pixels are surely minuscule?
>
It's quite hard to see the individual pixels but as far as I'm concerned
this is a good thing. Things look very sharp. Of course, some pictures and
videos might have to be scaled up to fit the screen. The Neo is not the best
virtual picture frame or movie theatre but it should be great for viewing
high res videos and photos (high res for a mobile device) on the go.
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Re: OpenMoko phone comparisons

[Ortwin Regel]

On Nov 11, 2007 6:33 PM, Peter Naulls <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have concerns about the screen size (even though it's 640x480,
> it's still tiny)

The screen is small but usable. The biggest problem I see is text input but
there are some interesting projects and ideas flying around to solve that.

and the ruggedness of the device

I can't say too much about that but it seems pretty solid to me. I read
about other people's buttons breaking and that sounds like a realistic issue
if you use them a lot. You should get some sort of protector foil for the
screen as the danger of damaging it is always big, especially with
touchscreens.

My requirements are:  640x480 (for suitably transcoded movies),

>From my experience with devices, the GTA02 hardware should do that pretty
easily. I have not idea how long it will take until the necessary software
is written/ported, though.


> runs Linux

It obviously does that.

wireless access

 Do you mean WLAN? The GTA02 will have the hardware and probably the
software after a short while.

can make occasional phone calls.
>
The GTA01 already makes phone calls.

And a general note: Your tone is very agressive and demanding. This does
nothing but annoy people. I'd recommend you try to be more friendly and
tolerant of seemingly unnecessary comments and people will probably be more
friendly to you.

Ortwin
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Re: Battery time

[Ortwin Regel]

Yeah, PLEASE give us a terminal! I'm a complete noob at all things Linux but
I already don't feel right if I don't have a terminal to mess with... Later
when the Neo is a consumer ready device it might be a good idea to take the
terminal out of the versions for the general public (or at least hide it
well). At this point, though, everybody using the Neo with Qtopia should be
interested in a terminal or at least not confused by it. ;)

Ortwin

On Nov 11, 2007 3:12 PM, Peter A Trotter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> > * No terminal. Ugh.
> >
> > Do you really need a terminal app on a phone?
> > Most phones do not have a term on them. besides, it is opensource, so
> > anyone could get one working. Any takers?
>
>
> I guess most/all here are geeks. I have to admit that the first thing I
> want to know before buying a new smart phone is can I use a terminal/ssh on
> it. pocket putty was a blessing. But I hope much better things will come
> from this project. Maybe I will try to carve out some time in December...
>
> I'm guessing anyone into Linux is going to want this though :)
>
> -Pete
>
>
>
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Re: Chumby on OpenMoko/Neo1973?

[Ortwin Regel]

Well, we've got the Aux button to replace that. As far as I understood it
it's a simple button press thing.

On Nov 6, 2007 8:36 PM, Steven ** <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> "What are the features of the chumby?
> Wi-fi connectivity • access to the free Chumby Network • 3.5" LCD
> color touchscreen • two external USB 2.0 full-speed ports • 350 MHz
> ARM processor • 64 MB SDRAM • 64 MB NAND flash ROM • stereo 2W
> speakers • headphone output • squeeze sensor • accelerometer (motion
> sensor) • leather casing • AC adapter included"
>
> I think the GTA02 would handle that just fine.  The only thing it's
> missing is the "squeeze sensor".
>
> -Steven
>
> On 11/6/07, Ortwin Regel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Would it be possible to run the Chumby ( http://chumby.com/ ) software
> on
> > OpenMoko / the Neo1973? What would it take to make this possible?
> > Why do I want it? Imagine it like this: Plug your Chumby equiped
> OpenMoko
> > device into the USB charging cable (/cradle). Let it sit for a while.
> After
> > five minutes of no activity, the Chumby software starts up automatically
> and
> > displays flash widgets, just like a Chumby would. With a simple press of
> the
> > power button, you get out of Chumby and back into OpenMoko.
> > Makes sense, doesn't it? Why get another immobile device if you've got
> all
> > the hardware to run Chumby software in your Neo? It might still make
> sense
> > if you want a permanent Chumby beside your bed or multiple around the
> house.
> > Many people probably would not want to get the hardware twice, though,
> so it
> > would make sense to make their Neos work as part time Chumbys. In the
> GTA02,
> > we should have all the necessary hardware with accelerometers and Wifi.
> >
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Chumby on OpenMoko/Neo1973?

[Ortwin Regel]

Would it be possible to run the Chumby ( http://chumby.com/ ) software on
OpenMoko / the Neo1973? What would it take to make this possible?
Why do I want it? Imagine it like this: Plug your Chumby equiped OpenMoko
device into the USB charging cable (/cradle). Let it sit for a while. After
five minutes of no activity, the Chumby software starts up automatically and
displays flash widgets, just like a Chumby would. With a simple press of the
power button, you get out of Chumby and back into OpenMoko.
Makes sense, doesn't it? Why get another immobile device if you've got all
the hardware to run Chumby software in your Neo? It might still make sense
if you want a permanent Chumby beside your bed or multiple around the house.
Many people probably would not want to get the hardware twice, though, so it
would make sense to make their Neos work as part time Chumbys. In the GTA02,
we should have all the necessary hardware with accelerometers and Wifi.
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Re: HD8X FCC approved

[Ortwin Regel]

I hope their awesome fresh software will run on our Neo1973s, too. I'd
gladly pay money for that stuff. :) Would be great if they could keep the
data open, though. Anyone from Dash around who can comment a little more on
what is planned?

Ortwin

On 10/31/07, Ian Darwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> > ... I'm assuming that it runs or will run
> > Openmoko.
>
> Tim O'Reilly said so too:
>
> http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/10/dash_web2summit_openmoko.html
>
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Re: Possible to add "OpenMoko" to the email title

[Ortwin Regel]

This discussion has been had before. The conclusion was that you should get
a better email app.

On 10/18/07, David Shanks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> New to the list and excited about the possibility of a open phone.  Still
> new so i'm mainly lurking for now.
>
> I suppose this is directed to the list moderators/admins.
> I was wondering if there is a way to have "openmoko" or some list
> descriptor
> like "community" added in front of the subject of the emails sent out by
> the
> list.
> It would make sorting my emails much simpler, as right now i'm forced to
> sort my mailbox by hand daily.
>
> David
>
> p.s. I'm not really a developer, but would be interested in learning about
> how to develop apps or other modules for openmoko.  I did take some
> programming classes in uni (mainly C++), but I find that if I can get a
> handle of syntax, i can figure out the way programs work.Anyways,
> anyone
> have a recommendation where to start (learn)?
>
>
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Re: Some ideas for the accelerometer

[Ortwin Regel]

But not while walking... Differentiating between motions and situations will
be a big challenge.

On 10/15/07, Alexey Feldgendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 21:57:52 +0200, Ortwin Regel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > It's also important to remember that the motion of picking up your phone
> > should not lead to denial of the call... ;)
>
> The initial proposal mentioned muting the ringer, not denying the phone.
> It's perfectly OK to mute the ringer if you're already taking the phone to
> your ear.
>
>
> --
> Alexey Feldgendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com
>
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Re: Some ideas for the accelerometer

[Ortwin Regel]

This doesn't work well because the screen moves with the phone. So if you
want to scroll right fast, you'll have trouble to see what's going on on the
screen. Scrolling should rather be done on the touchscreen because that
works really well. However, dragging the map/website as if it was physical
is too slow in most cases. Increasing scrolling velocity by the distance
from the initial touchpoint would probably be a good idea but adjustable
scrolling speed would be great already. Instead of scrolling one screen far
when I move my finger once across the screen, I want to scroll four screens
so that I get where I want quicker. Someone else might only want to scroll
one screen.
Kinetic scrolling can extend this and look/feel awesome but also be very
annoying so it should probably be optional.

Now what do we do with the accelerometer? I like the zooming idea. It
shouldn't require a hardware button press because those are kind of hard to
press. Touching the screen should be enough and it would mean that you can
zoom and scroll at the same time and pretty intuitively.

About the initial idea: Judging from my DS accelerometer (which is different
hardware but should be relatively similar), the sampling frequency will
probably be pretty high. I still doubt that you can reliably differentiate
between walking and hitting the phone. However, it might be possible to
shake it two or three times with a frequency faster than any form of running
and it should be possible to detect this. This probably won't help you if
the phone is hidden in a huge backpack.
It's also important to remember that the motion of picking up your phone
should not lead to denial of the call... ;)

Ortwin


On 10/12/07, David Pottage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Friday 12 October 2007, Oliver wrote:
> > I've had similar ideas, but haven't posted them yet. Here's one:
> >
> > Imagine you're surfing the internet, or checking a map, or something
> like
> > that. We don't have a multi-touch screen, so we can't zoom out with our
> > fingers like iPhone users. Zooming out, though, is something we really
> > should be able to do. So just hold a hardware button and bring the phone
> > closer to your face!
> >
> > The site/image should be shrunk in such a way that you'll think it is
> > stationary "behind" the phone, and the phone screen is a window through
> > which you can view this image/site! When you've spotted something you
> want
> > to focus on, somewhere else on the page, don't scroll, just keep holding
> > the button bringing the phone/window down to that place. If you stop
> > holding the button, the image can either stay where it is, or go to it's
> > original zoom-level.
> >
> > Just imagine, if you think of the screen as a window, what incredibly
> fun
> > games you could develop for the phone!
>
> I think a better idea would be to think of the screen as a mirror that you
> are
> using to view a much larger page behind you. That way you can intuitively
> scroll both vertically and horizontally a large page or map by tilting the
> screen, and without using the touchscreen. (Which can be reserved for
> other
> functions).
>
> A lot of UI ideas here are coppied from other touch screen devices. That's
> fine where appropriate, but the Neo 1973 is the only phone with built in
> accelerometers, and I think we should make use of them where we can. We
> should not just copy the iPhone or whatever, that only uses it's
> accelerometer as a tilt sensor to make the display image the right way up.
>
> --
> David Pottage
>
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Looking for debug board near Hildesheim/Germany

[Ortwin Regel]

Well, it had to happen sooner or later. I thought it might be a good idea to
try different u-boot versions to get around my little dual boot problem. It
wasn't. My Neo doesn't want to power on anymore. So is there anyone who can
fix my Neo with their fancy debug board reasonably near Hildesheim? I'd
rather drive over personally than send the thing via post if it can be
avoided.
>From tomorrow until Saturday I'll be in Frankfurt for the book fair so if
you are in that area you could help me out, too, if you answer fast.
Unfortunately I don't know if I'll have easy internet access down there and
of course I won't have a phone... :P

Please help me!

Ortwin Regel
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Re: still having trouble getting Neo to boot Qtopia from SD

[Ortwin Regel]

Because I couldn't get booting from SD to work with either Qtopia or
OpenMoko, I tried the other option (
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo_1973#Qtopia_AND_OpenMoko_Option_1).
It doesn't work, either. The gui vanishes and the last few lines
(after
lots of lines related to pressing buttons/touching the screen) are:

FreeFontPath: FPE "built-ins" refcount is 2, should be 1; fixing.
PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcs3
PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcsa3

xinit:  unexpected signal 15.
PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcs2
PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcsa2

I've got no idea what any of this means. o.o Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?

Ortwin

On 10/7/07, Ortwin Regel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I tried pretty much exactly the steps you described but I can't get
> booting from SD card to work, neither for Qtopia not for OpenMoko I must
> be missing something. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD seems
> to suggest that you need to use a specially prepared kernel. Is this so? Any
> ideas what else could be the problem? Unfortunately the Neo resets so fast
> when trying to boot from SD that I can't really read what's going on.
>
> Ortwin
>
> On 9/27/07, Piotr Duda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > ian douglas pisze:
> > [...]
> > > So Piotr, could you maybe please post your bash_history for us to see
> > > what exactly you did, to get this going? I'd be happy to edit the wiki
> > > page for Qtopia on the Neo for booting from SD if I can just get this
> > > going -- but experimentation is just frustrating when others obviously
> > > have already tried Qtopia on the Neo.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Ian
> >
> > I have repeated all the steps once again, and below is everything I had
> > to do
> > (as I wrote earlier, I didn't have to add uboot menu). I have verified
> > that
> > both Qtopia from SDcard and Openmoko from nand memory are booting. Still
> > don't have working sound in Qtopia and no time to play with it now.
> > Please
> > notice that I used kernel not from Qtopia site, but most recent I have
> > downloaded for Openmoko.
> >
> > [root: ~] # modprobe mmc_block
> > [root: ~] # modprobe mmc_core
> > [root: ~] # modprobe sdhci
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] # ls -l /dev/mmcblk0*
> > brw-r- 1 root disk 252, 0 wrz 27 20:08 /dev/mmcblk0
> > brw-r- 1 root disk 252, 1 wrz 27 20:08 /dev/mmcblk0p1
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] # mkfs.ext3 /dev/mmcblk0p1
> > mke2fs 1.38 (30-Jun-2005)
> > Etykieta systemu plików=
> > Typ OS: Linux
> > Rozmiar bloku=1024 (log=0)
> > Rozmiar fragmentu=1024 (log=0)
> > 123952 i-węzłów, 495460 bloków
> > 24773 bloków (5.00%) zarezerwowanych dla superużytkownika
> > Pierwszy blok danych=1
> > Maksymalna liczba bloków systemu plików=67633152
> > 61 grup bloków
> > 8192 bloków w grupie, 8192 fragmentów w grupie
> > 2032 i-węzłów w grupie
> > Kopie zapasowe superbloku zapisane w blokach:
> > 8193, 24577, 40961, 57345, 73729, 204801, 221185, 401409
> >
> > Zapis tablicy i-węzłów: zakończono
> > Tworzenie kroniki (8192 bloków): wykonano
> > Zapis superbloków i podsumowania systemu plików: wykonano
> >
> > Ten system plików będzie automatycznie sprawdzany co każde 33 montowań
> > lub co 180 dni, zależnie co nastąpi pierwsze. Można to zmienić poprzez
> > tune2fs -c lub -i.
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] # mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/card
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] # ls -l /media/card/
> > razem 12
> > drwx-- 2 root root 12288 wrz 27 20:17 lost+found
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] # tar -C /media/card/ -xzf Download/ficgta01-
> > qtopia-developer-rootfs.tgz
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] # ls  /media/card/
> > bin  boot  dev  etc  home  lib  lost+found  media  mnt  opt  proc  sbin  
> > sys  tmp  usr  var
> >
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] # ls  /media/card/boot/
> > zImage
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] # cp 
> > Download/uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin/media/card/boot/
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] #
> > [root: ~] # cd /media/card/boot/
> > [root: /media/card/boot] # ls -l
> > razem 1608
> > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1637614 wrz 27 20:29
> > uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin
> > lrwxrwxr

Re: rootfs?

[Ortwin Regel]

A list of different places:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories

http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D has updates every few days and
the images are a little customized. It's also got Qtopia images.
http://celtune.morb-design.com/images/fic-gta01/?C=M;O=D updates often, too,
and it's got the archive version you need if you want to boot from SD card.

On 10/8/07, Zalunin Pavel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> where I can get rootfs for OpenMoko? I was tried to download it from
> rapidshare, but we have non-stable internet and this way isn't real for
> belarussian people:)
>
> best regards, Zalunin Pavel
>
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Re: Right-click (as opposed to left-click)

[Ortwin Regel]

Right click could be emulated by pressing and holding AUX and then tapping.
Of course that means that other AUX button functionality could only be
activated after releasing the button without touching the screen. Native
apps should never need right clicking, though. It would only be useful for
fast ports.

Ortwin

On 10/7/07, Mikkel Meyer Andersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Cheers for the tip, but I also mean in general. It would be nice to
> could widen the functionality so that different clicks can be made.
> Maybe just through an icon in the panel (this should work as a setting
> so that the type click could be selected by activating that specific
> panel-item).
>
> Well, still gonna check you tip later for that specific game :-).
>
> / Mikkel
>
> ian douglas skrev:
> > On my old Treo, you could press the stylus on a square, and drag up to
> > flag it, or drag left to clear a flag. Dunno if the OM version of the
> > game does that though. If not, it'd be handy if it did.
> >
> > -id
> >
> >
> > Mikkel Meyer Andersen wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I've just tried Mines (testing purposes only, of course!), but it's
> >> kind of hard to win with-out being able to right-click. Does anyone
> >> know how to perform such an exotic action?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Mikkel
> >>
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Re: qtopia flash image update

[Ortwin Regel]

With the latest build from http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ I can
unlock the phone after inputting my PIN two times but it doesn't want to
register with the network. Also, the phone is very unresponsive and only
registers touch screen input every once in a while. Sounds like this might
be related:
http://www.qtopia.net/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=499&forum=4Guess
I'll have to try the ssh thing when I put the next build on my Neo but
it would really help if a terminal app was included in Qtopia...

Ortwin

On 10/2/07, Heilpern, Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm seeing the same problems with the new Qtopia image. The device comes
> up locked (with no apparent way to unlock it) -- the touch screen
> controls flash so I know they're registering, but the screen doesn't go
> to the unlock screen. The bottom left "soft menu" is "unlock", but
> touching the screen there doesn't register at all.
>
> Holding in the power button for a moment provides the restart/shutdown
> menu. Selecting "shutdown device" puts the clock icon on screen but
> doesn't go beyond that. Instead, it appears that the phone has crashed
> hard; only removal of the battery gets results from here.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of andy selby
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 12:42 PM
> To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
> Subject: Re: qtopia flash image update
>
> On 02/10/2007, Lorn Potter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I have uploaded a Qtopia snapshot version flash image for the Neo.
>
> > a few Known issues:
> >
> > * suspend/resume not fully working. must restart Qtopia to get modem
> working
> > again.
> > * inputmethod covers some widgets (bluetooth settings)
> > * no modem mux (no gprs)
> > * no mms support (no wap stack integrated)
> > * bluetooth audio not tested on Neo yet, probably needs work.
>
> Err.. how about the software is locked as default and shutdown the
> device doesn't work?
> but I'm sure the rest of the software is good, keep up the good work.
>
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Re: still having trouble getting Neo to boot Qtopia from SD

[Ortwin Regel]

I tried pretty much exactly the steps you described but I can't get booting
from SD card to work, neither for Qtopia not for OpenMoko I must be
missing something. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD seems to
suggest that you need to use a specially prepared kernel. Is this so? Any
ideas what else could be the problem? Unfortunately the Neo resets so fast
when trying to boot from SD that I can't really read what's going on.

Ortwin

On 9/27/07, Piotr Duda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ian douglas pisze:
> [...]
> > So Piotr, could you maybe please post your bash_history for us to see
> > what exactly you did, to get this going? I'd be happy to edit the wiki
> > page for Qtopia on the Neo for booting from SD if I can just get this
> > going -- but experimentation is just frustrating when others obviously
> > have already tried Qtopia on the Neo.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ian
>
> I have repeated all the steps once again, and below is everything I had to
> do
> (as I wrote earlier, I didn't have to add uboot menu). I have verified
> that
> both Qtopia from SDcard and Openmoko from nand memory are booting. Still
> don't have working sound in Qtopia and no time to play with it now. Please
>
> notice that I used kernel not from Qtopia site, but most recent I have
> downloaded for Openmoko.
>
> [root: ~] # modprobe mmc_block
> [root: ~] # modprobe mmc_core
> [root: ~] # modprobe sdhci
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] # ls -l /dev/mmcblk0*
> brw-r- 1 root disk 252, 0 wrz 27 20:08 /dev/mmcblk0
> brw-r- 1 root disk 252, 1 wrz 27 20:08 /dev/mmcblk0p1
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] # mkfs.ext3 /dev/mmcblk0p1
> mke2fs 1.38 (30-Jun-2005)
> Etykieta systemu plików=
> Typ OS: Linux
> Rozmiar bloku=1024 (log=0)
> Rozmiar fragmentu=1024 (log=0)
> 123952 i-węzłów, 495460 bloków
> 24773 bloków (5.00%) zarezerwowanych dla superużytkownika
> Pierwszy blok danych=1
> Maksymalna liczba bloków systemu plików=67633152
> 61 grup bloków
> 8192 bloków w grupie, 8192 fragmentów w grupie
> 2032 i-węzłów w grupie
> Kopie zapasowe superbloku zapisane w blokach:
> 8193, 24577, 40961, 57345, 73729, 204801, 221185, 401409
>
> Zapis tablicy i-węzłów: zakończono
> Tworzenie kroniki (8192 bloków): wykonano
> Zapis superbloków i podsumowania systemu plików: wykonano
>
> Ten system plików będzie automatycznie sprawdzany co każde 33 montowań
> lub co 180 dni, zależnie co nastąpi pierwsze. Można to zmienić poprzez
> tune2fs -c lub -i.
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] # mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/card
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] # ls -l /media/card/
> razem 12
> drwx-- 2 root root 12288 wrz 27 20:17 lost+found
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] # tar -C /media/card/ -xzf Download/ficgta01-
> qtopia-developer-rootfs.tgz
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] # ls  /media/card/
> bin  boot  dev  etc  home  lib  lost+found  media  mnt  opt  proc  sbin  sys  
> tmp  usr  var
>
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] # ls  /media/card/boot/
> zImage
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] # cp 
> Download/uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin/media/card/boot/
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] # cd /media/card/boot/
> [root: /media/card/boot] # ls -l
> razem 1608
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1637614 wrz 27 20:29
> uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  22 wrz 27 20:27 zImage ->
> zImage-2.6.21.6-moko11
> [root: /media/card/boot] # ln -s uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.binuImage
> [root: /media/card/boot] #
> [root: /media/card/boot] #
> [root: /media/card/boot] #
> [root: /media/card/boot] # ls -l
> razem 1608
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  39 wrz 27 20:30 uImage ->
> uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1637614 wrz 27 20:29
> uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  22 wrz 27 20:27 zImage ->
> zImage-2.6.21.6-moko11
> [root: /media/card/boot] #
> [root: /media/card/boot] #
> [root: /media/card/boot] #
> [root: /media/card/boot] # cd
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] # umount /media/card
> [root: ~] #
> [root: ~] #
>
> and that's it...
> Piotr
>
> P.S. sorry for output in polish, but it is nothing important... good luck
>
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Re: Neo Developer Version

[Ortwin Regel]

Pretty sure they are GTA01 as we haven't heard anything about GTA02 being
finalized and it isn't planned before October anyway.

Ortwin

On 9/26/07, Andreas Hennig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> Some more Phase 1 Neo's will be shiped end of september. Does somebody
> now,
> whether they will be GTA02 or GTA01?
>
> Thanks
>
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Re: Is neo1973 dual boot possible?

[Ortwin Regel]

Seems like it should, with the instructions at
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD . Could someone prepare
binaries ready for putting onto my SD card? And is there a program that can
format cards with different filesystems from Windows?

Ortwin

On 9/21/07, Bartlomiej Zdanowski [Zdanek] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  My idea is to have one OS on flash memory and second on SD card. Anybody
> knows if it would work?
>
> Regards,
> --
> *Bartlomiej Zdanowski*
> Programmer
> Product Research & Development Department
> AutoGuard S.A.
>
>  Place of registration: Regional Court for the Capital City of Warsaw
> Registration no.: 287629
> Share capital: 1 059 000 PLN
> Polish VAT and tax ID no.: PL1132219747
> Omulewska 27 street
> 04-128 Warsaw
> Poland
> phone +48 22 611 69 23
> www.autoguard.pl
>
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Re: stylus alternative

[Ortwin Regel]

There is also http://www.comfortstylus.com/ which kind of works. It's
especially well suited for FPS games on the DS, probably not the best thing
for phone navigation, though.
The problem with all the finger attachments is that your finger still pretty
much obstructs the view instead of being replaced by a much thinner stylus.
By the way, if you keep looking around for finger cap styli for the DS, you
can find some really scary looking ones...

Ortwin

On 9/10/07, Robin Paulson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> so, i've been following the discussion on finger-based vs.
> stylus-based apps. and i thought it might be a good idea to come up
> with some ideas for something between the two:
> a short (20-30mm long) piece of kit, attached to the finger end
>
> it would not be gripped between fingers and thumb but instead would
> slip over the end of one finger. it could either be a metal/plastic
> ring, or a soft, close-fitting cap, such as the rubber types used by
> money-counters. a point would be needed to apply pressure to the
> screen - this could be a short piece of metal/plastic, rigidly
> attached to the ring/cap part of the stylus.
>
> myself, i would be more likely to carry one (lot smaller than stylus,
> cheap to replace if lost) and if it was well-designed it would be
> virtually unnoticeable by others
>
> anyone else see my vision? or am i insane?
>
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Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.

[Ortwin Regel]

On 8/26/07, Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> Why am I not being given the choice to RIGHT NOW to be placed at the
> FRONT
> >> of the GTA02 sales queue?
> >
> > Why dont I have a billion dollars?  I really want it and I could really
> > use it...
> >
> >
>
> Why don't I get respect from a company I'm trying to support at my
> expense?  I really want it and I could really use it.


You are getting respect but not magic.
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Re: mailing list management

[Ortwin Regel]

Learn to use Gmail. Also it's relevant for everything where you can only see
the first X letters of a topic in your list of emails. Like pretty much
every mail client and webmail interface out there. So adding the tags to the
end of the subject line is a pretty good idea which I could live with while
adding them to the front would really annoy me.

On 8/14/07, hank williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Oops again. That reply to thing is a bitch.
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: hank williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
> Date: Aug 14, 2007 4:52 PM
> Subject: Re: mailing list management
> To: Daniel Mewes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
>  I
> > use pager notification for my e-mails and text paging in Germany has a
> > very limited message length.
>
>
> Wow. now thats a great target design platform for a mailing list. lol.
>
> Hank
>
>
>
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Re: Google Phone is coming...

[Ortwin Regel]

I love the rumors... Really hope they are true! :D

On 8/7/07, Jeremy G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 8/4/07, Jeremy G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 8/4/07, Harrison Metzger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Why doesn't Google join Openmoko/Neo?
> >
> > Google has too many closed-source applications to fit with the
> > completely open nature of OpenMoko, and likely, they intend to use
> > their phone as an avenue to promote their applications, closed and
> > open alike.
> >
>
> Looks like I might end up eating my words:
>
> "There has been a new batch of rumors swirling about Google producing
> a "gPhone" mobile telephone after a Reuters reporter stated High Tech
> Computer Corp would be designing the Linux phone for Google. A
> friendly penguin has told us at Phoronix that Google is looking to
> team up with OpenMoko for their "gPhone". Google will not be using the
> FIC Neo1973 GTA01, but they will be bringing the open-source OpenMoko
> platform to their own hardware, which looks to be manufactured through
> HTC, and making a few changes along the way. "
>
> Source: http://www.phoronix.com/?page=news_item&px=NTk1Mw
>
> J.
>
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Re: Gaming with the Neo

[Ortwin Regel]

I'd prefer a Wiimote attached to the Neo with some kind of plastic holder
but this is a nice alterative.

On 8/7/07, Mario Wewer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Anyone of you ever saw something like this?
>
>
> http://www.amazon.de/Handy-GamePad-Bluetooth-Smartphones-Pocket/dp/B000H8TQSM/ref=sr_1_57/028-7732093-9147747?ie=UTF8&s=ce-de&qid=1186487069&sr=1-57
>
> I just found this solution on the german Amazon-Page... Seems like a VERY
> CHEAP alternative (~25€) to use the Neo as a gaming-platform... (connected
> to the phone via bluetooth)
>
>
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Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?

[Ortwin Regel]

I guess you can't have a revolution without breaking some laws... ;)

On 8/7/07, Giles Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On 6 Aug 2007, at 23:58, Ortwin Regel wrote:
>
> > Run an open Wifi node.
> >
>
> It's becoming less and less of a good idea to do that these days. You
> are responsible for any activity on your connection, so if someone
> commits a crime you'll have a hard time proving it wasn't you.
>
> But anyway, on the topic of wifi, is anyone planning any Wifi tools?
> easily sharing data like music, ringtones, browser links, contact
> card etc?
>
>
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Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?

[Ortwin Regel]

Run an open Wifi node.

On 8/7/07, Luca Dionisi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for your explanation.
>
> So, what are the current proposal for starting the real revolution?
> I'm getting bored and frustrated. :)
>
> There has to be something that we could do from the
> base to get rid of the bastards.
>
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Re: Finger Graffiti

[Ortwin Regel]

What the fuck is even going on here?!

On 7/30/07, Giles Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On 30 Jul 2007, at 15:35, David "Lefty" Schlesinger wrote:
>
> > Trademarks exist in specific contexts for particular usages,
> > they're not
> > a global thing. I'm obligated to deal with trademark law as I find it;
> > if you wish it were something different, you'll need to write your
> > Congressional representative...
>
> So by using fingers instead of a stylus we're not talking about the
> same use case anyway.
>
> I'm in England, so there's no such thing as a congressional
> representative. MP is the term here, don't assume everyone is from
> the US.
>
> Are you policing this project for violations?
>
>
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Re: Finger Graffiti

[Ortwin Regel]

Worrying about worrying about the trademark issue is even more irrelevant.
Pointing things like this out early is a good thing. Further discussion
about the trademark issue isn't necessary, though, it's annoying.

Ortwin

On 7/30/07, Jay Vaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Jul 30, 2007, at 7:50 AM, Rod Whitby wrote:
> >> Ah cripes, who freaking *CARES* about the Graffiti trademark ..
> > Hmm ... someone could just as well say:
> > "Ah cripes, who freaking *CARES* about the OpenMoko trademark .."
> >
>
> Is someone actually developing something which uses the OpenMoko
> properties?  I don't think so.
>
> > Doesn't sound so good when you say it that way, does it?
> >
>
> I'm not saying don't be "trademark-sensitive", I'm saying that
> worrying about the Graffiti trademark is irrelevant, because nobody
> is putting, actually, Graffiti into anything.  There are plenty of
> Graffiti alternatives around .. it just happens that Graffiti is what
> people know "finger painting on your PDA" to be .. its common enough
> to warrant usage as a word referring to the activity of finger-
> painting symbols for recognition on a devices surface.  Graffiti,
> itself, is useless to us.  Similar techniques which do not violate
> anyones rights are useful; to discuss, to implement, and hopefully to
> use.
>
> > Note that David didn't accuse anyone of breaching trademark rights, he
> > simply pointed out that OpenMoko (or anyone else for that matter other
> > than the trademark holder) should be careful not to release any
> > software
> > package with the trademarked term "Graffiti" in it's name.  And he
> > said
> > he would only say it once, so as not to annoy people by continually
> > harping on it.
> >
>
> It would have been wonderful advice if there is actually some release
> going on.
>
> > Don't forget that OpenMoko is a company too.  You can't favour and
> > protect one companies trademarks and not do the same for another.
> >
>
> I don't care about the trademark issue until there is actually
> something to attach a mark to.  So far, there is nothing in this
> direction.  All I care about is that the technical creativity not be
> stifled by legalese so soon in the game ..
>
> ;
>
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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

[Ortwin Regel]

On 7/24/07, Gerald A <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:




On 7/24/07, Richard Reichenbacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> If they were interested in developing, they would follow the wiki as it
> is the
> only source for finding development specs, cvs links, walkthroughs, etc.


Flaw in your logic: One has to "post" to the wiki to follow it. I'm very
sure you
can follow a wiki and never post to it. So, your stats conclusions are on
shaky
ground.

That's a pretty large amount of people that are going to want help
> building
> openmoko and flashing it to the phone.  I think a forum is a good idea
> for
> now if anytime.  If we can show that there is a great support base
> available
> for the phone this early on we can draw a much larger fan base later on.
>

I think the idea is to get info out, in an easy to maintain way to as many
people
as possible.

I despise forums. Some products require you to use them, so I have to.
There are others that
feel this same way.
Some despise mailing lists. C'est la vie.

I think the best thing would be to work on a way in which both groups
could be
happy. A gateway between the mailing list and a forum might be the best of
both
worlds. Then again, maybe not. But it's something that we should be
talking about,
rather then having a religious debate about forum vs. list.

Comments?

Gerald.

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A gateway would not work. Forums and mailing lists are two quite different
means of communication. In a forum you can edit things, move them, delete
them. Also, discussing in a flat view doesn't only look different, it works
differently. Also, if you connect both, you get all the trash that's ok in a
forum because you can skip it sent to everyone in the mailing list.
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Re: Java games for openMoko

[Ortwin Regel]

Remember that the Neo doesn't have the buttons for games. The touchscreen
can only do one button at a time, so an external gamepad (USB or Wiimote)
would be necessary.

Ortwin

On 7/27/07, John Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm sorry but I'm new to the openMoko system. So my question, is it
> possible to play java games, like for other mobiles, on the openMoko? I
> know, they must be compiled for it. But is it possible to play in the same,
> easy way, some java games?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
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Re: What happened to the order?

[Ortwin Regel]

I am in the same situation.

Ortwin

On 7/27/07, Asbjørn Sannes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> If I understood correctly orders within the U.S. was shipped first, and
> then international developers would get their phones..
>
> I have received three e-mails from openmoko: "AutoReply: OpenMoko direct
> order", "Your OpenMoko direct order" (which I replyed to YES_I_DO), and
> "Payment received: OpenMoko direct order".
>
> Since then I have heard nothing, but I can see from the "P1 Owners" page
> that other higher numbered rts, ordering the exact same thing (Advanced
> kit, B/S), to the exact same location (Oslo, Norway) have received
> shipping notifications.
>
> Anyone else experienced this? Is my order gone? Am I waiting for
> something that won't happen?
> Is there something that I should have done that I have not?
>
> Any pointers appreciated :)
>
> Greetings,
> Asbjørn Sannes
>
>
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Re: Product naming / wiki page naming / restructuring

[Ortwin Regel]

On 7/27/07, Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > There might come
> >
> > Neo1974 or even
> > Neo2007
>
> Yes.  And actually, nijutsu will also tell us about the Neo1907 at some
> point :)
>

FIC vacuum cleaner? Camera? What about the Neo968? Neo1979?
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Re: [Germany] GSM Prepaid offer from "Tchibo": user2user calls free for next 24 months

[Ortwin Regel]

Only Tchibo - Tchibo calls are free, and only for 24 months if you buy
before 2007-08-09. To benefit from this you'd have to get two or more of
this offer and give one to everyone you phone often.
SMS are relatively expensive and I wasn't able to find anything about
data...

Ortwin

On 7/27/07, Robert Michel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> sorry that this is only a tip for OpenMoko people
> in Germany -  there is a quite interesting
> offer since today:
>
> Prepaid SIM for 5 Euro with free calls to other
> SIMs (users) of this special sold offer for the
> next 24 month. I haven't found a limitation of
> minutes/month.
> http://www.tchibo.de
> :)
>
> I think there is something like "fair-use"
> so when you/I use this offer less intensive
> then some teenies
>
>
> This offer use the network of O2 and it could
> be that this free calls are only valid inside
> the O2 network in Germany. If the mobil use
> the D1 roaming inside Germany it could be that
> this calls are not for free... (I will check this)
> and realy cool would it be, when datacalls from
> Tchibo-SIM to Tchibo-SIM would be free as well.
>
> The selling this special Prepaid-cards is anounced
> to run until 9.8.2007.
>
> See also:
> http://www.teltarif.de/arch/2007/kw30/s26634.html
>
>
> BTW: the shops have mobils as well, I had the luck to
> get a Nokia 1112 with Prepaid SIM for 20 Euro.
> The battery BL-5CA of this mobil is Neo1973 compatible
> (already tested) and has a charger that could
> help when your are going to buy a stand alone
> battery charger from Nokia or third-party vendor.
>
> The FIC GTC-01/GTA-01 battery is setting the
> Nokia 1112 into "test mode" - so this
> 20 Euro inc Prepaid-SIM offer is not  realy
> likly to work as "Second Battery for the neo,
> Battery Charger and Prepaid-SIM" deal
>
>
> But the sim itself (with a second sim of this
> offer) would be very interesting to use with
> the neo.
>
> It's a pity that the Neo doesn't have a second
> SIM card slot (and a second GSM tranceiver) so
> cheap GPRS connections like Medion Mobile 0,24Euro/MB
> needs to change the SIM or a second mobil (maybe
> with Bluetooth, maybe a second neo)
>
> Greetings,
> rob
>
>
>
>
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Re: Why you won't find me in the forum much

[Ortwin Regel]

On 7/26/07, Raphaël Jacquot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I recently read some "press article" that stated that for younger
people, email was dead, and everything happened on MSN.
well, I, for one, won't be often in those stupid HTML forums either, I
consider those things
* a waste of resources and time
* impossible to search
so they are pretty useless
also, they tend to multiply, which makes searching for relevant
information rather impossible or pointless

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Most forums come with a working search engine.
Don't load the images and you get pretty small pages that probably aren't
bigger than the quote trains lazy top replying (I do it myself) creates.

But why are we even bothering to have this discussion? Web forums aren't
stupid. They are a popular tool for discussion on the internet. If you are
too stupid to use them, that's not my problem. I am obviously too stupid to
use mailing lists with a hundred mails a day, though.
Here's the deal:
-We've got a mailing list, continue using it if you can handle it.
-We've got a temporary forum here:
http://forums.makeopensource.com/index.php Use it if you like forums. I hope
we can move the content over to an official forum once it's created.

There is really no need for further forums vs ML discussion. Both work, in
different ways, parallel. The discussion could be continued in the forum,
then at least the mailing list stays clean of spam.

Ortwin
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Re: email vs forum (was Re: OK, the forum is coming..)

[Ortwin Regel]

You are talking about flat, web forum style threading, though. What he wants
is tree style threading like in the ML archives, Slashdot comments etc.

Ortwin

On 7/26/07, vivek khurana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On 7/25/07, Steven ** <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Um...  That doesn't seem to get Gmail to thread the messages at
all.  You're
> solution is "Just don't use Gmail.  Duh!".  That's not a valid answer to
my
> question.  Before you suggest it, the following is also an invalid
response:
> "use Outlook or Thunderbird and download all your messages via POP."
>
> I use Gmail.  Accept it.  Now, if you had a Greasemonkey script that
made
> Gmail thread the messages, that would be acceptable.
Threaded view in Gmail client works fine ( running under Firefox 1.5
). There are few messages here and there which jump out of thread.
Maybe you should check your settings or write to google.

regards
VK
PS:- I am also using Gmail.

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Re: Why you won't find me in the forum much

[Ortwin Regel]

On 7/26/07, Mathew Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



> So there is still no forum solution that I know of that allows me to
> download the full content of all posts I haven't read yet, and read them
>
> on a random small device (e.g. a Treo650, or a Nokia N800, or a Sharp
> Zaurus) that supports offline email reading and replying.


Sounds like a good nitch to hit.  I would be interested in a program like
that I wonder what it would take to make one?




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A phpBB addon accomplishing that might be useful for quite a few people.
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Re: email vs forum

[Ortwin Regel]

On the other hand, via email you load everything while on a forum you choose
what to view.
The screen size argument also doesn't work too well as the Neo has 640*480
which is plenty and an official forum would obviously make sure to fit well
into that resolution.

How about continuing the discussion in the forum? :P

Ortwin

On 7/25/07, Sebastian Krause <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Not trying to "prove" something -- trying to give benefit of long
experience
> in similar situations.  Email is substantially more efficient, because
it is
> intrinsically more powerful.  For example:

8) Staying in touch directly with the community from my OpenMoko
phone in a year using an expensive GPRS connection:

- E-Mail: Loading everything via POP3 or even better compressed UUCP
  on my phone, reading with my favorite mail client that suits the
  display. Uses minimum bandwidth and I can cut the connection after
  loading mail. Cheap.
- Web forum: Suffer with the web browser on a forum design not
  suitable to the small display. Using tons of bandwidth for every
  request, staying online all the time. Really expensive.

Sebastian


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Re: Re Multitouch

[Ortwin Regel]

And how do you scroll?

On 7/24/07, Giles Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


David Samblas Martinez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote :

> An regardin "is multi touch really that awesome? " I
> think yes of course, but maybe not in a so little
> screen and surelly it is not worth the trouble of
> re-coding a lot of stuff to make it work.

It has its uses, the important thing is to design the interface of this
phone to be useable with thumbs. There's interface elements which are too
small at present. I also dislike the Start menu too (too much like Windows
Mobile).

Multitouch is fiddly on the move, you're reliant on being able to hold the
device and use two thumbs or hold in one hand then use two fingers of the
same hand.

Apple mainly use it for zooming photos. You can do similar with one
finger, hold your thumb down on the centre of the touch screen and slide
outwards to zoom in. Do the same but touch edge of screen and slide finger
to middle of screen to zoom out.

The above has the advantage of being possible one handed.

---
G O Jones





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