Re: Where is Qtopia image on qtopia.net for GTA01

[Pranav Desai]

On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 11:43 AM, Lorn Potter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Pranav Desai wrote:
>> Hello All,
>>
>> I wanted to try out the Qtopia image provided by trolltech on my
>> Neo1973, but the only image I could find was for the freerunner here
>>
>> http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/index.php
>>
>> Can I use the same one? If not then can anyone point me to correct location.
>
> I will put a new image up for the 1973 today.
>

Great !

Thanks

-- Pranav

>
>>
>> Also, is this qtopia image similar to the one here
>> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/200807/20080708/Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080708-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2
>
> Thats not Qtopia, thats ASU from Openmoko.
>
>
>
> --
> Lorn 'ljp' Potter
> Software Engineer, Systems Group, Trolltech, a Nokia company
>
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Where is Qtopia image on qtopia.net for GTA01

[Pranav Desai]

Hello All,

I wanted to try out the Qtopia image provided by trolltech on my
Neo1973, but the only image I could find was for the freerunner here

http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/index.php

Can I use the same one? If not then can anyone point me to correct location.

Also, is this qtopia image similar to the one here
http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/200807/20080708/Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080708-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2

Thanks for your time.

-- Pranav

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Re: Meta Toolchain Release (2008 May)

[Pranav Desai]

On 5/29/08, John Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 06:44:42PM -0700, Pranav Desai wrote:
>> On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 9:34 PM, John Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> > libjana isn't packaged in toolchain by default.  the default
>> > compopents are:
>> >
>> > libmokogsmd2, mokoui2, mokopanelui2, mokojournal2 and dependencies.
>> >
>> > we cannot package everything or it's going to be a huge toolchain.
>> > however, there are 2 interesting aliases in environment-setup:
>> >
>>
>> I understand, and you don't have to include all the libraries, but atleast
>> the prerequisite for building a standard openmoko app should be included.
>>
>
> That is exactly the problem.  You see, if we put april software update
> into consideration (these are standard openmoko apps as well), the
> prerequisite will not be small for a toolchain.  I'm still thinking

Not sure what you mean, is it that the dependencies for the April
software are different and hence the toolchains needs both April and
May libs ?

I have just looked at one app (dialer), so you guys know the
dependencies a lot better than I do and maybe they do make the
toolchain too big, but just for the dialer the toolchain was pretty
reasonable size.

> about this out of my personal interest.
>
>
> Regards,
> John
>

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Re: Packaging third-party applications (Was: Meta Toolchain Release (2008 May))

[Pranav Desai]

On 5/29/08, Rod Whitby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Pranav Desai wrote:
>> On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 5:49 PM, Rod Whitby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>> The usual way is to add the package to OpenEmbedded, and then add
>> it's name to the task-openmoko-feed.bb
>> <http://task-openmoko-feed.bb> recipe so that it automatically gets
>> built, packaged and deployed to the official download site.
>>
>> But wouldn't that mean writing a recipe for all packages that we want to
>> add?
>
> That is correct.
>
>> Many third party apps already have a makefile setup, why do you
>> want to change that ?
>
> Writing a recipe does not involve changing the existing Makefile. If the
> existing Makefile is written properly, then the recipe should be about 5
> lines long.
>
> But the major reason to do this is the one I gave below, which you
> didn't comment on.  Security and trust of third-party apps should be a
> very significant consideration for the Openmoko community.
>
>> Also, I am much more likely to trust a package recipe that I can
>> build and install myself using OpenEmbedded (or download from an
>> official site where the package has been built from source by a
>> trusted autobuild system), rather than downloading some unknown,
>> possibly virus-tainted binary package from some random site ...

I agree with that issue, but that choice should be left to the user,
if they don't feel comfortable downloading a binary pkg, they are more
than welcome to get the src and build it themselves.

My attempt is to make existing opensource apps available for Openmoko.
If I have rewrite or wrap around the existing build process just to
fit the OE model then it seems a bit discouraging.

Maybe its trivial to include apps into OE, but currently it seems more
than that to me. And especially, with the toolchain out, it seems even
more easier to build apps as-is and just putting out the binaries for
people to use.

-- Pranav

>
> -- Rod
>

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Re: Packaging third-party applications (Was: Meta Toolchain Release (2008 May))

[Pranav Desai]

On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 5:49 PM, Rod Whitby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Pranav Desai wrote:
>
>> But that brings another question (which probably needs another thread),
>>> where do we store/host the ported apps if we have some?
>>> * Can we put it somewhere on downloads.openmoko.org <
>>> http://downloads.openmoko.org>
>>> * Should we create another project on project.openmoko.org <
>>> http://project.openmoko.org>.
>>> * Or do we put the responsibility on whoever ported it, to host the app.
>>>
>>
> The usual way is to add the package to OpenEmbedded, and then add it's name
> to the task-openmoko-feed.bb recipe so that it automatically gets built,
> packaged and deployed to the official download site.
>

But wouldn't that mean writing a recipe for all packages that we want to
add? Many third party apps already have a makefile setup, why do you want to
change that ? Especially, if they can be build easily enough with the
toolchain.


> Packaging and publishing random applications here, there and everywhere is
> just going to fragment the set of applications available to users.


Thats not going to stop anyway, but if we have a central place where people
can put their packages, maybe it can be reduced.


>
> Also, I am much more likely to trust a package recipe that I can build and
> install myself using OpenEmbedded (or download from an official site where
> the package has been built from source by a trusted autobuild system),
> rather than downloading some unknown, possibly virus-tainted binary package
> from some random site ...
>

> -- Rod
>
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Re: Meta Toolchain Release (2008 May)

[Pranav Desai]

On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 9:34 PM, John Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 04:19:37PM -0700, Pranav Desai wrote:
> >
> > I am still having trouble building openmoko-dialer2 with the toolchain. I
> > can build openmoko-sample2 just fine.
> >
> > The toolchain seems to be missing libpulse. Initially, om-conf
> > openmok-dialer2 gave both libebook and libpulse as missing. I found that
> > libebook is present in the toolchain, but was missing the .pc file. After
> > adding that it went ahead and only complained about libpulse.
> >
> > So I started building pulseaudio-0.9.10 with the toolchain. After
> resolving
> > some dependencies like liboil and libsndfile, I was able to build
> libpulse.
> > But now I stuck at libjana.
> >
> > checking pkg-config is at least version 0.9.0... yes
> > checking for DIALER... yes
> > checking for JANA... configure: error: Package requirements (libjana
> > libjana-ecal libjana-gtk) were not met:
> >
> > No package 'libjana' found
> > No package 'libjana-ecal' found
> > No package 'libjana-gtk' found
> >
> > Any ideas, suggestions or can anyone provide with the required libraries
> ?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > -- Pranav
>
> libjana isn't packaged in toolchain by default.  the default
> compopents are:
>
> libmokogsmd2, mokoui2, mokopanelui2, mokojournal2 and dependencies.
>
> we cannot package everything or it's going to be a huge toolchain.
> however, there are 2 interesting aliases in environment-setup:
>

I understand, and you don't have to include all the libraries, but atleast
the prerequisite for building a standard openmoko app should be included.


> alias opkg='LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/openmoko/arm/lib
> /usr/local/openmoko/arm/bin/opkg-cl -f
> /usr/local/openmoko/arm/etc/opkg-sdk.conf -o /usr/local/openmoko/arm'
>
> alias opkg-target='LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/openmoko/arm/lib
> /usr/local/openmoko/arm/bin/opkg-cl -f
> /usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/etc/opkg.conf -o
> /usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi'
>
> which means by opkg-target we can add the packages we need into the
> toolchain directory.
>
> at the moment the content of
>
> /usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/etc/opkg.conf
>
> is incorrectly pointed to local directories in build host.  if we
> replace it by the corresponding URIs such as
>
> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/
> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all
> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t
> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/neo1973
> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/om-gta01
>
> then _theoretically_ we can just do
>
> opkg-target update
> opkg-target install libjana-dev
>
> I haven't tried this approach before because OE suits me just fine.
> however, for those who just want to make apps I think it's an right way
> to start.
>
>
> Regards,
> John
>
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Re: Meta Toolchain Release (2008 May)

[Pranav Desai]

On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 1:00 AM, Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Somebody in the thread at some point said:
> | On 5/26/08, Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> | Somebody in the thread at some point said:
> |
> | | No package 'libjana' found
> | | No package 'libjana-ecal' found
> | | No package 'libjana-gtk' found
> | |
> | | Any ideas, suggestions or can anyone provide with the required
> libraries ?
> |
> | Presumably the actual target libs you want are sitting there in the OM
> | distribution packages, and the includes and other bits and bobs are
> | likewise just sitting there in the -dev OM distribution packages.
> |
> |
> |> I was able to package a working toolchain (atleast it builds
> |> openmoko-dialer2) which includes the missing libs mentioned above and
> |> few others. As you said most of the libs were included the OM dist.
> |
> | What we need is to enable to install these into the toolchain somehow,
> | rather than make that a special "do it at the factory" operation to get
> | things into toolchain.
> |
> |
> |> Agreed, but till that time if anyone is interested in the toolchain I
> |> can put it up somewhere.
>
> Hey good job Pranav.
>
> After 7 months of proposing this methodology I finally get a taker --
> from outside OM.  Maybe in another 7 months we can get a host-side opkg


Hmm, so within OM you guys don't prefer/advise using pre-built toolchains?
Any particular reason?

For me, it seems too tedious to setup the OM dev env to build single app
like the dialer or some other app like squid-cache. I think the toolchain is
very useful, especially for small apps, test programs or even OM apps, which
just needs a small personalized modification. Anyway, thats just my thought.

But that brings another question (which probably needs another thread),
where do we store/host the ported apps if we have some?
* Can we put it somewhere on downloads.openmoko.org
* Should we create another project on project.openmoko.org.
* Or do we put the responsibility on whoever ported it, to host the app.

-- Pranav



> or even unpack helper scripts as part of the toolchain so people can use
> it for building against their own packaged libs in a coherent way.
>
> - -Andy
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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> Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAkg9EQ4ACgkQOjLpvpq7dMrX4wCfZ4XorL+QSzSO6yiXFmRqA9oX
> PfMAnAw2AsWMOHJogII3VFRFtfRw99bx
> =KutW
>
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: Meta Toolchain Release (2008 May)

[Pranav Desai]

On 5/26/08, Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Somebody in the thread at some point said:
>
> | No package 'libjana' found
> | No package 'libjana-ecal' found
> | No package 'libjana-gtk' found
> |
> | Any ideas, suggestions or can anyone provide with the required libraries ?
>
> Presumably the actual target libs you want are sitting there in the OM
> distribution packages, and the includes and other bits and bobs are
> likewise just sitting there in the -dev OM distribution packages.
>

I was able to package a working toolchain (atleast it builds
openmoko-dialer2) which includes the missing libs mentioned above and
few others. As you said most of the libs were included the OM dist.

> What we need is to enable to install these into the toolchain somehow,
> rather than make that a special "do it at the factory" operation to get
> things into toolchain.
>

Agreed, but till that time if anyone is interested in the toolchain I
can put it up somewhere.

-- Pranav

> - -Andy
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> =UQXh
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: Meta Toolchain Release (2008 May)

[Pranav Desai]

On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 7:53 AM, Julian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >
> > Thank you friends,
> >
> > Right, We also found the problem after release.
> > We should put pkg-config into meta-toolchain to solve it.
> >
> > John Lee is working this. :-)
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > -Julian
>
> Hi Friends,
>
> After John Lee's great working, I had upload the new meta-toolchain.
> And change the symbolic-link to refer the new one.
>
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain
>
> Any comments are welcome :-)
>

I am still having trouble building openmoko-dialer2 with the toolchain. I
can build openmoko-sample2 just fine.

The toolchain seems to be missing libpulse. Initially, om-conf
openmok-dialer2 gave both libebook and libpulse as missing. I found that
libebook is present in the toolchain, but was missing the .pc file. After
adding that it went ahead and only complained about libpulse.

So I started building pulseaudio-0.9.10 with the toolchain. After resolving
some dependencies like liboil and libsndfile, I was able to build libpulse.
But now I stuck at libjana.

checking pkg-config is at least version 0.9.0... yes
checking for DIALER... yes
checking for JANA... configure: error: Package requirements (libjana
libjana-ecal libjana-gtk) were not met:

No package 'libjana' found
No package 'libjana-ecal' found
No package 'libjana-gtk' found

Any ideas, suggestions or can anyone provide with the required libraries ?

Thanks

-- Pranav



> -Julian
>
>
>
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Re: Meta Toolchain Release (2008 May)

[Pranav Desai]

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 7:37 PM, Guillaume Chereau <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> On Mon, 2008-05-12 at 16:19 -0700, Pranav Desai wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 2:53 PM, Julian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> >  After fix some problems, I had put the newest meta toolchain
> > to
> > downloads.openmoko.org.
> >
> >  If you are developing a single application, you can use
> > meta-toolchain
> > to build your onw application.
> >
> > I tried using this toolchain, but it fails with the following error on
> > om-conf. The sample program works fine with the old toolchain. This is
> > happening with the 32bit and 64bit versions of the new toolchain. Am I
> > missing something here ?
> >
> > om-conf openmoko-sample2
> >
> > configure: WARNING: In the future, Autoconf will not detect
> > cross-tools
> > whose name does not start with the host triplet.  If you think this
> > configuration is useful to you, please write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > checking pkg-config is at least version 0.9.0... yes
> > checking for DEPENDENCIES... configure: error: Package requirements
> > (libmokoui2 gconf-2.0) were not met:
> >
> > No package 'libmokoui2' found
> > No package 'gconf-2.0' found
> >
> > Consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if you
> > installed software in a non-standard prefix.
> >
> > Alternatively, you may set the environment variables
> > DEPENDENCIES_CFLAGS
> > and DEPENDENCIES_LIBS to avoid the need to call pkg-config.
> > See the pkg-config man page for more details.
> >
> > FATAL: oe_runconf failed
> >
> > Let me know if you need more information.
> >
> > -- Pranav
> >
> >
> >
> >  please take a look of this Page.
> >
> >  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > -Julian
> >
> I had the same problem. I finally made it work by using the
> script : /usr/local/openmoko/arm/environment-setup
> instead of /usr/local/openmoko/arm/scripts/script-env
>

Thanks! ...  now it does configure, but does your make succeeds ?

my make still fails with the following errors, so it seems like its still
using the system files ... this is just the start of make error, but I think
u get an idea.

In file included from /usr/include/glib-2.0/glib/galloca.h:30,
 from /usr/include/glib-2.0/glib.h:30,
 from /usr/include/gtk-2.0/gdk/gdktypes.h:32,
 from /usr/include/gtk-2.0/gdk/gdkcolor.h:31,
 from /usr/include/gtk-2.0/gdk/gdkcairo.h:23,
 from /usr/include/gtk-2.0/gdk/gdk.h:30,
 from /usr/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtk.h:31,
 from sample-main.c:19:
/usr/include/glib-2.0/glib/gtypes.h:30:24: error: glibconfig.h: No such file
or directory
In file included from /usr/include/glib-2.0/glib/galloca.h:30,
 from /usr/include/glib-2.0/glib.h:30,

-- Pranav


> - Gui
>
>
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Re: Meta Toolchain Release (2008 May)

[Pranav Desai]

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Pranav Desai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 2:53 PM, Julian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> >  After fix some problems, I had put the newest meta toolchain to
> > downloads.openmoko.org.
> >
> >  If you are developing a single application, you can use meta-toolchain
> > to build your onw application.
> >
>
> I tried using this toolchain, but it fails with the following error on
> om-conf. The sample program works fine with the old toolchain. This is
> happening with the 32bit and 64bit versions of the new toolchain. Am I
> missing something here ?
>
> om-conf openmoko-sample2
>
> configure: WARNING: In the future, Autoconf will not detect cross-tools
> whose name does not start with the host triplet.  If you think this
> configuration is useful to you, please write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> checking pkg-config is at least version 0.9.0... yes
> checking for DEPENDENCIES... configure: error: Package requirements
> (libmokoui2 gconf-2.0) were not met:
>
> No package 'libmokoui2' found
> No package 'gconf-2.0' found
>
> Consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if you
> installed software in a non-standard prefix.
>
> Alternatively, you may set the environment variables DEPENDENCIES_CFLAGS
> and DEPENDENCIES_LIBS to avoid the need to call pkg-config.
> See the pkg-config man page for more details.
>
> FATAL: oe_runconf failed
>


Looks like the setup-env doesnt have the right paths set, it should be
.../usr/lib instead of .../lib

export
PKG_CONFIG_DIR="${OMTOOL_DIR}/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/lib/pkgconfig"
export
PKG_CONFIG_PATH="${OMTOOL_DIR}/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/lib/pkgconfig"
export LDFLAGS="-L${OMTOOL_DIR}/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/lib
-Wl,-rpath-link,${OMTOOL_DIR}/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/lib -Wl,-O1"


Now it configures fine, but fails on make. Looks like the libmokoui2.pc file
is also not set correctly. The prefix is still referring to the system files
instead of the /usr/local/openmoko path ... the older toolchain has the
prefix correctly setup.

-- Pranav


> Let me know if you need more information.
>
> -- Pranav
>
>
> >  please take a look of this Page.
> >
> >  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > -Julian
> >
> >
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> >
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Re: Meta Toolchain Release (2008 May)

[Pranav Desai]

On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 2:53 PM, Julian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>  After fix some problems, I had put the newest meta toolchain to
> downloads.openmoko.org.
>
>  If you are developing a single application, you can use meta-toolchain
> to build your onw application.
>

I tried using this toolchain, but it fails with the following error on
om-conf. The sample program works fine with the old toolchain. This is
happening with the 32bit and 64bit versions of the new toolchain. Am I
missing something here ?

om-conf openmoko-sample2

configure: WARNING: In the future, Autoconf will not detect cross-tools
whose name does not start with the host triplet.  If you think this
configuration is useful to you, please write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
checking pkg-config is at least version 0.9.0... yes
checking for DEPENDENCIES... configure: error: Package requirements
(libmokoui2 gconf-2.0) were not met:

No package 'libmokoui2' found
No package 'gconf-2.0' found

Consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if you
installed software in a non-standard prefix.

Alternatively, you may set the environment variables DEPENDENCIES_CFLAGS
and DEPENDENCIES_LIBS to avoid the need to call pkg-config.
See the pkg-config man page for more details.

FATAL: oe_runconf failed

Let me know if you need more information.

-- Pranav


>  please take a look of this Page.
>
>  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain
>
> Best Regards,
>
> -Julian
>
>
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Reading contacts from SIM address book

[Pranav Desai]

Hello,

I am working on April 21 Snapshot.

I am not able to see the SIM card contacts in my Contacts list. I believe
there was a bug #1238 assigned and resolved for this issue. So am I missing
some steps or should it have been an automatic process ?

I haven't tried this in any previous images, so I don't know if this issue
existed before the April 21 image.


Thanks for your time.

-- Pranav
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Re: Neo to act as a bluetooth remote control?

[Pranav Desai]

On 10/17/07, Björn Martensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm sorry if this is somewhere in the wiki already, but i don't have an
> internet connection atm as i'm moving and can only send and receive some
> email once a day, so i'd like to ask this: Are there any plans to make
> the Neo a usable bluetooth remote control for a media center pc for
> example? As there aren't any restrictions to hardware buttons, you could
> really create some nice rc, imho.
>

You might want to give this a try.
http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/btremote/

Its still under development. I will try to clean it up a bit and post
some screenshots maybe later this week.

-- Pranav


> greets,
> Björn
>
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Re: Bi-weekly OpenMoko community update

[Pranav Desai]

On 10/14/07, Robin Paulson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 15/10/2007, Pranav Desai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Absolutely agrree. GPS was one of my main points for buying the phone.
> > I dont really care about the source for the driver as long as I can
> > get the co-ordinates.
>
> hmm. this an open phone with open hardware and (where legal) open
> drivers. not having the source code to something would defeat the
> whole purpose of what sean et al are doing, and not attract any of the
> community that's here - the neo would be just another smartphone/pda
> and we'd be back to square one.
>
> so no, we do want and require the source code to everything
>

Even I would love to get the source, but if not getting the src is
causing the device to be non-functional, then I would prefer to get it
without the source as long as I can get the device to work, since I
have paid for it.

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Re: Bi-weekly OpenMoko community update

[Pranav Desai]

On 10/13/07, Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 10/12/07, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > We're very happy with the u-blox/Atmel ATR0635 GPS Receiver, and thus
> > have made the decision to use this chip.
>
> That sounds like good news.  It's not open-source but sounds like it
> should be easier to interface with.
>
> However, FIC still needs to get us the gllin binaries for our GTA01's!
>  I hope this isn't being forgotten just because you chose a new chip.
> It was advertised as a GPS phone and that was probably a big factor
> for many of us to purchase it.  Personally I was looking forward very
> much to having this working, and the last update I remember seeing was
> a couple months ago when Sean said the license would all be worked out
> in "a few more days"!  What's up with that?  How many hundreds of
> phones are sitting around with idle GPS chips, hampering the
> development because of this licensing red tape!  It's ridiculous that
> it has taken this long.
>

Absolutely agrree. GPS was one of my main points for buying the phone.
I dont really care about the source for the driver as long as I can
get the co-ordinates.

-- Pranav
> If the chip co. wants to charge a small fee I'd even pay it.
>
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Re: Charger for neo1973

[Pranav Desai]

On 9/11/07, Steven ** <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 9/11/07, Pranav Desai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I found this charger mentioned on wired.
> >
> > http://www.inflightpower.com/
> >
> > Do you think it can be used to charge the neo ?
>
>
> I'm not sure if your goal is to actually use it in-flight, or just to
> charge from a battery.  If it's the latter, see:
> http://www.instructables.com/id/EGBQJPLCB2EP287KTZ/
> http://www.instructables.com/id/E1QBI60DAJEQZJHW8Y/
>
> http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=1-4/qid=1189541560/ref=sr_1_4/602-0392629-9428653?ie=UTF8&asin=B000IOKLZM
>

its just to charge from a battery ... but do these devices have enough power
to fast charge the neo ?


P.S. I found a mention on the community list that the phase0 phones shipped
> > with a wall charger, is that true and if so then was it discontinued for
> > phase 1 ?
> > Here is the photo of it.
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/hrwandil/413641858/in/photostream/
>
>
> I'm not sure if they come with it or not.  But they can be had for pretty
> cheap.  You'll find a lot targeted for the iPod, but you can probably find
> others that may be cheaper (like
> http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=1-3/qid=1189541560/ref=sr_1_3/602-0392629-9428653?ie=UTF8&asin=B000HZV67Y).
>

thats good info !
thanks!


-Steven
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Charger for neo1973

[Pranav Desai]

Hello All,

I found this charger mentioned on wired.

http://www.inflightpower.com/

Do you think it can be used to charge the neo ?

Thanks

--  Pranav

P.S. I found a mention on the community list that the phase0 phones shipped
with a wall charger, is that true and if so then was it discontinued for
phase 1 ?
Here is the photo of it.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hrwandil/413641858/in/photostream/


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Re: 3G sim cards

[Pranav Desai]

On 7/31/07, Eric Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Can you tell me the numbers on the chip side of the SIM?
> Not the 20 digit ICCID but the 5 digit SKU followed by a letter and then
> the 4 digit Vendor and Version number underneath it.



73000O4021


For example G&D cards say
> 71234 D
>     2202
>
> Eric
>
> Pranav Desai wrote:
> >
> > On 7/29/07, *Andy Poling* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Many people (including I) have not been able to get the at&t 3g
> > sim card
> > > (the one with the "3g fireball") working in our neos. The older
> > cingular
> > > ones do work (they are "64K smart chip").
> >
> >
> >
> > I can make calls using the cingular 3G sim card. I dont know much
> > about SIM cards/networks but it says 3G on it and its by cingular. Is
> > there a way to confirm that its 3G ?
>



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Re: 3G sim cards

[Pranav Desai]

On 7/29/07, Andy Poling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Many people (including I) have not been able to get the at&t 3g sim card
> > (the one with the "3g fireball") working in our neos. The older cingular
> > ones do work (they are "64K smart chip").



I can make calls using the cingular 3G sim card. I dont know much about SIM
cards/networks but it says 3G on it and its by cingular. Is there a way to
confirm that its 3G ?


I have two cingular "64K smart chip" SIMs that won't work in the neo1973
> (CME
> 10), but they both work in both my razr and sierra ac860 card.
>
> Both SIMs are about 9-10 months old now - maybe they changed a while back
> while keeping similar markings?  On the back, one says "3G" (with a tiny
> "c"
> after it) and has the numbers 64205G and 3020.  The other also has 3G(c)
> and
> has 64205O (capital "o") and 4020.
>
> I dug up an old SIM (also cingular) that does work (so I know the GSM chip
> and
> SIM socket aren't faulty), but that account is no longer active.
>
> -Andy
>
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Re: voice command line (was: ssh to a phone ... thats awesome !!)

[Pranav Desai]

On 7/27/07, Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ssh is awesome, but in the future when your on the go it would be
> handy to have all the commands (shell commands, common keywords and
> programs in path) to be bindable to voice commands.  Like voice
> dialing, but for a shell.  I know full blown speech recognition is
> unlikely, but just commands seems doable.  Does anyone have any
> experience with voice learning?


Actually, I had used a tool called cvoicecontrol sometime back for exactly
that, running scripts or cmds using voice. It wasnt very powerful in terms
of how well it could recognize, but was functional enough.

http://www.kiecza.net/daniel/linux/


What do you guys think?
>
> Mark
>
> On 7/27/07, Tim Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > We need video, or it didn't happing.
> >
> > Just kidding, though seriously, I want to see more video online of the
> > NEO1973 and open moko in action.
> >
> >
> > On 7/27/07, Pranav Desai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello All,
> > >
> > > I just got my Neo. Upgraded the kernel and rootfs and shortly I was
> > ssh'ing in to a phone !!
> > >
> > > Now on to making a call :-)
> > >
> > > Enjoy!
> > >
> > > -- Pranav
> > >
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> > >
> >
> >
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> >
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ssh to a phone ... thats awesome !!

[Pranav Desai]

Hello All,

I just got my Neo. Upgraded the kernel and rootfs and shortly I was ssh'ing
in to a phone !!

Now on to making a call :-)

Enjoy!

-- Pranav

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PDA/portable keyboard that can be used with Neo1973

[Pranav Desai]

Hello All,

Does anyone have any recommendations on keyboards that can be used
with the Neo1973. bluetooth, USB, etc.
I have seen some online, but most of them seems to be compatible with
one or other type of PDA, so I am guessing a universal one would be
better for Neo1973 ..

Thanks

-- Pranav

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Re: Color choice, etc.

[Pranav Desai]

On 7/8/07, andrej w. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Omg. I was so enthusiastic about ordering the neo, that I completely
ignored those
comment boxes. It would be great to get another chance to chose the
prefered color.
I don't want to end up with an orange neo inside a black toolbox. ;)

Andrej

Brad Pitcher schrieb:
> There is a comment box on the pages where you input your shipping
> address.  I suggest you specify your choice there, although I suppose
> it's too late for you to exercise that option.
>


I missed that option too ... can we specify it to someone now in order
to get the correct color ... ?

-- pranav


> On 7/8/07, *Emre Turkay* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
>
> I ordered one but later I realized that I didn't choose a color. And I
> see two different headsets, it didn't ask me about it either.
>
> Well, I guess the question is obvious. Is it just random, hehe?
>
> emre
>
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Re: Blank Page ... Was [Color choice, etc.]

[Pranav Desai]

On 7/8/07, Jae Stutzman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

It seems that the state/province must be the 2 digit code...with all CAPS at
least in US and Canada




that seems to work, but I didnt get any choice of color ... ?


On 7/8/07, Pranav Desai < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 7/8/07, Joe Pfeiffer < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I'm one of the ones getting a blank page response -- checking the
> > headers, I got an OK (200), but a 0-length message, back...
> >
> even I am getting a blank page after entering the address and quantity
info.
> > ___
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> >
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Blank Page ... Was [Color choice, etc.]

[Pranav Desai]

On 7/8/07, Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I'm one of the ones getting a blank page response -- checking the
headers, I got an OK (200), but a 0-length message, back...


even I am getting a blank page after entering the address and quantity info.

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Re: New Oceans

[Pranav Desai]

On 6/30/07, Sean Moss-Pultz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On Jul 1, 2007, at 1:25 AM, Pranav Desai wrote:

> On 6/30/07, Gabriel Ambuehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Saturday 30 June 2007 18:39:27 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> > > +1 to this unbundled approach.  Also maybe add "replacement
>> touchscreen"
>> > > as this is probably #1 part most likely to get busted?
>> >
>> > Another vote for the unbundled approach. A number of us hardware
>> types are
>> > discussing various gadgets that would hack into the neo for CPU and
>> > connectivity. A pity to waste a whole phone (and the $$s) if the
>> case and
>> > screen is not needed.
>>
>> +1 for both. (I think I suggested that one months ago, already ;)
>>
>
> Thats a great idea !
>
> So if the boards are sold separately, then will it be possible to use
> the GTA02 board with the phone screen and case that we are getting in
> July. That would help someone like me who dont want to buy a complete
> new phone in October, but would certainly like the wifi in the GTAv02
> board for much less than $450.

hehe...well I didn't really think of it that way. But yes, that would
be one possible upgrade plan. I don't think we plan on making changes
to the tooling. That's _really_ expensive. So this should work. Let
me double check on Monday.



You just got to think "outside the case" !! ... :-))

I hope it works that way.

Thanks

-- Pranav


-Sean





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Re: New Oceans

[Pranav Desai]

On 6/30/07, Gabriel Ambuehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Saturday 30 June 2007 18:39:27 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > +1 to this unbundled approach.  Also maybe add "replacement touchscreen"
> > as this is probably #1 part most likely to get busted?
>
> Another vote for the unbundled approach. A number of us hardware types are
> discussing various gadgets that would hack into the neo for CPU and
> connectivity. A pity to waste a whole phone (and the $$s) if the case and
> screen is not needed.

+1 for both. (I think I suggested that one months ago, already ;)



Thats a great idea !

So if the boards are sold separately, then will it be possible to use
the GTA02 board with the phone screen and case that we are getting in
July. That would help someone like me who dont want to buy a complete
new phone in October, but would certainly like the wifi in the GTAv02
board for much less than $450.

-- Pranav



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Re: Neologics

[Pranav Desai]

On 3/4/07, Stefan Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hello.

On Sat, 2007-03-03 at 19:18, Pranav Desai wrote:
> On 3/1/07, Sean Moss-Pultz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> In the presentation its mentioned that the debug board will cost an
> additional $200. How important is the debug board for phase 1 phones ?
> Can we update the firmware drivers and put software, kernel, etc. on
> it without the board?

No, it is only needed if you break your bootloader. Everything besides
this is recoverable with the installed bootloader.



Thanks Stefan.

Will it be possible to add a wiki page specifying how not to break the
bootloader and other things first time developers shouldn't do to make
the hardware unusable ?

-- Pranav


Sometimes it can make life easier as you can do step debugging with
the JTAG, but for normal development, even kernel, it is not needed.

regards
Stefan Schmidt

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Re: Neologics

[Pranav Desai]

On 3/1/07, Sean Moss-Pultz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Dear Community,

For those of you who couldn't make it FOSDEM or Etel, I've posted our
presentation here:

http://www.openmoko.com/files/OpenMoko_Neologics.pdf



Hello Sean,

Thanks for the link.

In the presentation its mentioned that the debug board will cost an
additional $200. How important is the debug board for phase 1 phones ?
Can we update the firmware drivers and put software, kernel, etc. on
it without the board?

For future versions of the phone (phase 2+), is this a necessary piece
of hardware for any kind of development work ?

Thanks
-- Pranav



Happy reading!

-Sean


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Re: Warranty on phase 1 phones

[Pranav Desai]

On 2/20/07, Jeff Andros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On 2/20/07, Pranav Desai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 2/20/07, Sean Moss-Pultz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2007-02-19 at 17:32 -0800, Pranav Desai wrote:
> > >
> > > Is there any warranty on phase 1 phones ? If the screen is bad, some
> > > input ports don't work, etc. what will be the process then ?
> >
> > Of course we'll have a warranty ;-)
> >
> > I'm not sure of the exact terms at this point. Probably something
> > standard like 1 year.
> >
>
> Thanks Sean!
> I assume that the warranty will be void if we open up the phone ? :-)
Pranav,
I hope you're so kidding... it'd be pretty bad that they published
instructions on how to pull the plastics then ding you when you do!
but yeah, you bring up a really good point, I'd understand if
soldering iron = no warranty though



I hope you are right ... that only something like soldering will void
your warranty and not opening up the phone and re-flashing some
EEPROM. But I am guessing thats not the case.

I guess we will find out when the official warranty is released.

-- Pranav


Sean,
hope it's not too much to ask for you to relay terms? have the legal
guys even gone over this yet?

--Jeff
>
> -- Pranav
>
> > -Sean
> >
> >
>
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Re: Warranty on phase 1 phones

[Pranav Desai]

On 2/20/07, Sean Moss-Pultz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Mon, 2007-02-19 at 17:32 -0800, Pranav Desai wrote:
>
> Is there any warranty on phase 1 phones ? If the screen is bad, some
> input ports don't work, etc. what will be the process then ?

Of course we'll have a warranty ;-)

I'm not sure of the exact terms at this point. Probably something
standard like 1 year.



Thanks Sean!
I assume that the warranty will be void if we open up the phone ? :-)

-- Pranav


-Sean





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Warranty on phase 1 phones

[Pranav Desai]

Hey All,

Is there any warranty on phase 1 phones ? If the screen is bad, some
input ports don't work, etc. what will be the process then ?

Thanks

-- Pranav

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Re: Hardware changes between phases ?

[Pranav Desai]

On 2/9/07, Sean Moss-Pultz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Fri, 2007-02-09 at 18:02 +, Ian Stirling wrote:
> Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
> > On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 12:06 -0800, Pranav Desai wrote:
> >> Are there going to hardware changes between Phase1 and Phase2 ...
> from
> >> this posting it sounds like that, just wanted to verify.
> >
> > Yes.
>
> Are we talking:
>
> Cosmetic changes - option of coloured covers, a 24K gold
> neckchain, ...
>
> Minor changes - limited power on the USB port, another couple of
> buttons, maybe an accelerometer chip jammed in somewhere.
>
> Major changes - entire new subsystems.
>
> Everything changes - it's a completely different phone, with some
> more
> features, and source only compatibility?
>
> I understand you may not be able to answer :)
> Counting the days.

I'll be talking more about this stuff in the coming months. I just don't
want to say anything at this point. But don't worry about being an early
adopter. If we come out with something cool we'll make sure you guys can
get it at a discount if you already have a developers version.



Thats what I wanted to hear ... :-)


-Sean




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Hardware changes between phases ?

[Pranav Desai]

Hello All,

Are there going to hardware changes between Phase1 and Phase2 ... from
this posting it sounds like that, just wanted to verify.

http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-January/00.html

2007-03-11 Phase 1: Official Developer Launch
   We will sell the Neo1973 direct from openmoko.com for US$350 plus
   shipping. Sales and orders will be worldwide. We are specifically
   targeting open source community developers.

   2007-09-11 Phase 2: Mass Market Sale
   Online sales will continue. We will also be available in a retail
   stores and selected carriers around the world. At this point, we
   hope your mom and dad will want to buy a Neo1973, too.

   The 2nd generation OpenMoko device will also be introduced at this
   time. We have something special in the works, but again, you will
   help shape this device.

Thanks
-- Pranav

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Re: Developers phone also fit for early adopters?

[Pranav Desai]

On 1/25/07, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Marcel de Jong wrote:
> Hello all,

> I was wondering. I'm not a developer, at least not by profession; I do
> have a degree in it but my coding skills are very rusty, I'm a
> software tester (TMAP, but not yet certified).

> So I'm not really a developer, but  I'd still like to get me a phone
> in March. (can't wait till November or what was it again) :)

> Will the developers phone be ready for usage for non-developers too?

Absolutely not, sorry. This is really "release early and often". It
will definitely be too rough for non-developers -- that's why we are
targetting September for mass market.



What about the hardware, will that be the same for March and September
? or can that also change, due to some issue with the developer
phones.
I am not a developer in the embedded space, but I dont mind updating
the phone with new software (kernel, apps, etc.), whenever one is
released. And I am also fine with it not working sometimes, but it
will be difficult to buy a new phone in September, coz some chip in
the developer version doesnt work as expected.

Thanks
-- Pranav



Regards,

:M:
--
Michael 'Mickey' Lauer | IT-Freelancer | http://www.vanille-media.de


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Re: Ready For Prime Time?

[Pranav Desai]

On 1/24/07, Dave Crossland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On 24/01/07, Duncan Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm starting to get excited about the phone, and I really don't want to
> see my hopes dashed.  Has an FCC filing been made, is the phone ready to
> go?

I believe so. From
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001586.html
:

2007-03-11 Phase 1: Official Developer Launch
We will sell the Neo1973 direct from openmoko.com for US$350 plus
shipping. Sales and orders will be worldwide. We are specifically
targeting open source community developers.


Does that mean that in the case of high demand or low supply
(especially for the Phase 1) ... the members of this list have a
higher priority :-)


> What about the multi-point touch screen?  It's wonderful, but
> doesn't Apple have a patent on that?

Kinda.

http://hrmpf.com/wordpress/48/new-apple-patents/
http://hrmpf.com/wordpress/51/apple-multipoint-touchscreen/

Of particular interest to OpenMoko developers will be
http://www.fingerworks.com/gesture_guide_mouse.html
:-)

Good background story at
http://crunchgear.com/2007/01/15/multi-touch-technology-and-where-its-going-nextoh-and-apple-didnt-invent-it-either/

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Re: Idea: Use headphone output as a remote control (infrared: control TV, stereo, etc)

[Pranav Desai]

On 1/19/07, MartinG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

This might have been suggested before, if so - ignore it ;)

The idea is simply to use the (stereo) mini jack sound output of the
Neo to control two infrared leds, in order to control whatever device
that can be controlled by a remote control. Why two leds and stereo? I
guess this is required in order to reach the high frequency
conventional remote controls use.
Read more here:

http://features.engadget.com/2004/07/27/how-to-turn-your-ipod-in-to-a-universal-infrared-remote-control/



that is cool !!

I had heard of ppl using the treo 650 as remote with the addon IR
transmitter, but this is much nicer ...
It will be great if we can get something similar for the Neo1973.


-- Pranav



Does anyone know if this would be possible with the sound module in the Neo1973?

Maybe an idea for the "Neo extras" store?

best regards,
looking forward to whatever-date-in-february

-MartinG

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Unpowered USB as a data drive?

[Pranav Desai]

Hello All,


From some info on the list I gather that the SD card will have no more that

4GB, so will I be able to use a USB flash drive with 'X' GB storage for
media files e.g.
I am asking since I am not sure what implication does the Unpowered aspect
have on USB devices.

Related to media files, will the initial version have some media player
(mplayer) on it, or is it upto the user to compile and use it.

Thanks for your input.

-- Pranav
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Few questions regarding phone

[Pranav Desai]

Hello All,

I have been following the list and seem like a very interesting project and
I very excited about getting this device.
I do have a few questions:
- Will this be a ready to use phone, out of the box ? as long as i have a
sim card.
- What is the final status on bluetooth. I have been reading that is there,
not there ...
- What does it mean to be open source, will I be able to write my own "hello
world" ? Can run a bash shell and a ssh client? Will I be able to run some
sort of mobile firefox? or does it already have some browser.
- Will it have support for USB WiFi devices, since I assume there is no wifi
in the initial version.

Thanks
-- Pranav
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