Re: [QtMoko] Arora on QtMoko (was Re: Least-hassle method of getting a usable Web browser + telephony support while GPRS is enabled?)

[George Brooke]

On Sunday 20 Dec 2009 21:04:02 Brolin Empey wrote:
> I installed Arora on QtMoko v14.  I noticed Arora will not load
> Pouet.
> Any idea why?  There is no error message: the page just never loads.  Pouet
> loads fine in Firefox on a PC running Linux or Windows.
> 
Appears to be a Qt problem - site wouldn't load in Arora on Kubunt 9.10 or in  
a plain QWebview in 
Qt 4 Designer (Qt 4.5.2)

solar.george


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

[QtMoko] Arora on QtMoko (was Re: Least-hassle method of getting a usable Web browser + telephony support while GPRS is enabled?)

[Brolin Empey]

I installed Arora on QtMoko v14.  I noticed Arora will not load
Pouet.
Any idea why?  There is no error message: the page just never loads.  Pouet
loads fine in Firefox on a PC running Linux or Windows.
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Least-hassle method of getting a usable Web browser + telephony support while GPRS is enabled?

[Brolin Empey]

2009/12/17 Al Johnson 

> On Thursday 17 December 2009, Brolin Empey wrote:
> > 2009/12/16 Al Johnson 
> >
> > > On Thursday 17 December 2009, Brolin Empey wrote:
> > FreeRunner, Om2009 (completely unusable because the GUI kept becoming
> > unresponsive), SHR-U (version 080808 or 090808?  I can find out which
> > version I tried when I am home tonight.
>
> That's a long way out of date!
>

It was the current release when I tried it in 2009-08, soon after I got my
FreeRunner.

>
>
> >  I had the base or tiny version of
> >  SHR (I forgot what it was called, but I can find out when I am at home
> >  tonight.), which had very few apps, but I could not upgrade to the full
> >  version because I did not have a usable ssh connection.), and finally
> >  QtMoko, which still has issues but is by far the most usable distro I
> have
> >  tried.  I could try SHR again, but my first impression of SHR was very
> >  poor because I do not understand how they could release such a broken
> >  image.
>
> shr-unstable is just that, and breakages happen. The images are just
> nightly
> builds that have nominally succeeded, not a release that's supposed to be
> bug-
> free. The recently released shr-testing is intended to avoid the sort of
> failures you can get in unstable, but it takes a little while for bug fixes
> to
> trickle down from unstable.
>

I was expecting SHR-unstable to be like Debian Linux unstable, which is
actually not unstable in the sense of having lots of breakage.

I thought the image I tried was recommended because it was supposed to work
well (had been tested), but I could be wrong.  I should have asked if there
was a better (less broken) image I could have tried.


>
> >  If I try another distro, it has to be able to install to and run
> >  from a MicroSD(HC) card because I need to keep my working QtMoko
> >  installation in my onboard NAND.
>
> I'm running shr-u (among others) from uSD. Just make an ext3 filesystem on
> a
> spare partition and untar the tar.gz image to it. I assume you know how to
> multiboot already...
>

I have not multibooted my FreeRunner because so far I have run only 1 distro
at a time from the onboard NAND, but I can probably figure out how to
multiboot because I have multibooted PCs + my iPod + maybe some other
devices I am forgetting. :)
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Least-hassle method of getting a usable Web browser + telephony support while GPRS is enabled?

[Al Johnson]

On Thursday 17 December 2009, Brolin Empey wrote:
> 2009/12/16 Al Johnson 
> 
> > On Thursday 17 December 2009, Brolin Empey wrote:
> > > Hello list,
> > >
> > > I am using QtMoko v14.  AFAIK, QtMoko does not support GSM
> > > multiplexing, which means even if I had a working and usable Web
> > > browser for QtMoko, I could not use telephony functionality, such as
> > > making and receiving phone calls, while GPRS is enabled.  If I wanted
> > > to have Internet access on my FreeRunner, what is the least-hassle
> > > method of getting a usable Web
> >
> > browser
> >
> > > + telephony and SMS support while GPRS is enabled?  Am I better off
> >
> > finding
> >
> > > a usable proprietary phone?
> >
> > Since you've already got the phone you may as well give the other
> > firmware options a try. We keep finding people have different definitions
> > of 'usable'
> > so you'll have to see what suits you.
> >
> > SHR should be easy to try, and is supposed to do everything you want.
> > There's
> > a GUI for the GPRS config. It has multiplexing so GPRS, SMS and telephony
> > should work together (I say should as I haven't tried GPRS recently.)
> > Midori
> > might be a suitable browser, although there is a problematic interaction
> > between the illume keyboard and midori's address autocompletion at the
> > moment.
> >
> > I have already tried the Om2008.8 (?) which was preinstalled on my
> 
> FreeRunner, Om2009 (completely unusable because the GUI kept becoming
> unresponsive), SHR-U (version 080808 or 090808?  I can find out which
> version I tried when I am home tonight.

That's a long way out of date!

> It was less unusable than Om2009
> but still unusable because I could not set the clock to the correct date
>  and time,

By default this is picked up automatically (network, gps, ntp), but you can 
disable some or all of these and set it manually if you want.

>  all of my SMS messages had the same incorrect date and time, the
>  text input did not work reliably,

date and time show correctly here. Matching names to numbers on the message 
app can be slow though.

>  it used crappy Busybox instead of GNU
>  userland (I know I could probably replace Busybox with GNU userland, but
>  doing so requires a usable ssh connection.)

still uses busybox by default, but with openssh in place of dropbear. You need 
to set a password or openssh will refuse the connection.

>  , and I could not even get a
>  usable ssh connection to SHR-U because I could not get bridging nor
>  routing working on Ubuntu and the ssh session from Cygwin on Windows Vista
>  was very slow and kept disconnecting.

I've not tried networking on ubuntu or vista so I can't comment, but bridging 
on fedora just works like any other bridge. It behaves the same way whichever 
distro I have on the moko (except android).

>  I had the base or tiny version of
>  SHR (I forgot what it was called, but I can find out when I am at home
>  tonight.), which had very few apps, but I could not upgrade to the full
>  version because I did not have a usable ssh connection.), and finally
>  QtMoko, which still has issues but is by far the most usable distro I have
>  tried.  I could try SHR again, but my first impression of SHR was very
>  poor because I do not understand how they could release such a broken
>  image. 

shr-unstable is just that, and breakages happen. The images are just nightly 
builds that have nominally succeeded, not a release that's supposed to be bug-
free. The recently released shr-testing is intended to avoid the sort of 
failures you can get in unstable, but it takes a little while for bug fixes to 
trickle down from unstable. 

>  If I try another distro, it has to be able to install to and run
>  from a MicroSD(HC) card because I need to keep my working QtMoko
>  installation in my onboard NAND.

I'm running shr-u (among others) from uSD. Just make an ext3 filesystem on a 
spare partition and untar the tar.gz image to it. I assume you know how to 
multiboot already...

>  I want to be able to connect my
>  FreeRunner directly to an Ethernet LAN instead of having to use bridging
>  and/or routing on a PC.  I already have a USB → Ethernet adapter, but I am
>  still waiting for my DealExtreme orders to arrive (it is taking weeks. :/)
>  so I can use my FreeRunner as a USB Host instead of only as a USB Device. 
>  If I could connect my FreeRunner directly to my Ethernet LAN, then it does
>  not matter if I cannot get a usable ssh connection to SHR-U via USB
>  networking, but such a connection should still work because it works fine
>  with QtMoko.

The Settings app has a switch for USB host/device mode. So long as the kernel 
module is present it should work, but I've never tried a USB ethernet adapter 
with it.

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Least-hassle method of getting a usable Web browser + telephony support while GPRS is enabled?

[Brolin Empey]

2009/12/16 Al Johnson 

> On Thursday 17 December 2009, Brolin Empey wrote:
> > Hello list,
> >
> > I am using QtMoko v14.  AFAIK, QtMoko does not support GSM multiplexing,
> > which means even if I had a working and usable Web browser for QtMoko, I
> > could not use telephony functionality, such as making and receiving phone
> > calls, while GPRS is enabled.  If I wanted to have Internet access on my
> > FreeRunner, what is the least-hassle method of getting a usable Web
> browser
> > + telephony and SMS support while GPRS is enabled?  Am I better off
> finding
> > a usable proprietary phone?
>
> Since you've already got the phone you may as well give the other firmware
> options a try. We keep finding people have different definitions of
> 'usable'
> so you'll have to see what suits you.
>
> SHR should be easy to try, and is supposed to do everything you want.
> There's
> a GUI for the GPRS config. It has multiplexing so GPRS, SMS and telephony
> should work together (I say should as I haven't tried GPRS recently.)
> Midori
> might be a suitable browser, although there is a problematic interaction
> between the illume keyboard and midori's address autocompletion at the
> moment.
>
> I have already tried the Om2008.8 (?) which was preinstalled on my
FreeRunner, Om2009 (completely unusable because the GUI kept becoming
unresponsive), SHR-U (version 080808 or 090808?  I can find out which
version I tried when I am home tonight.  It was less unusable than Om2009
but still unusable because I could not set the clock to the correct date and
time, all of my SMS messages had the same incorrect date and time, the text
input did not work reliably, it used crappy Busybox instead of GNU userland
(I know I could probably replace Busybox with GNU userland, but doing so
requires a usable ssh connection.), and I could not even get a usable ssh
connection to SHR-U because I could not get bridging nor routing working on
Ubuntu and the ssh session from Cygwin on Windows Vista was very slow and
kept disconnecting.  I had the base or tiny version of SHR (I forgot what it
was called, but I can find out when I am at home tonight.), which had very
few apps, but I could not upgrade to the full version because I did not have
a usable ssh connection.), and finally QtMoko, which still has issues but is
by far the most usable distro I have tried.  I could try SHR again, but my
first impression of SHR was very poor because I do not understand how they
could release such a broken image.  If I try another distro, it has to be
able to install to and run from a MicroSD(HC) card because I need to keep my
working QtMoko installation in my onboard NAND.  I want to be able to
connect my FreeRunner directly to an Ethernet LAN instead of having to use
bridging and/or routing on a PC.  I already have a USB → Ethernet adapter,
but I am still waiting for my DealExtreme orders to arrive (it is taking
weeks. :/) so I can use my FreeRunner as a USB Host instead of only as a USB
Device.  If I could connect my FreeRunner directly to my Ethernet LAN, then
it does not matter if I cannot get a usable ssh connection to SHR-U via USB
networking, but such a connection should still work because it works fine
with QtMoko.
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Least-hassle method of getting a usable Web browser + telephony support while GPRS is enabled?

[Adam Jimerson]

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:24 PM, Al Johnson
wrote:

> On Thursday 17 December 2009, Brolin Empey wrote:
> > Hello list,
> >
> > I am using QtMoko v14.  AFAIK, QtMoko does not support GSM multiplexing,
> > which means even if I had a working and usable Web browser for QtMoko, I
> > could not use telephony functionality, such as making and receiving phone
> > calls, while GPRS is enabled.  If I wanted to have Internet access on my
> > FreeRunner, what is the least-hassle method of getting a usable Web
> browser
> > + telephony and SMS support while GPRS is enabled?  Am I better off
> finding
> > a usable proprietary phone?
>
> Since you've already got the phone you may as well give the other firmware
> options a try. We keep finding people have different definitions of
> 'usable'
> so you'll have to see what suits you.
>
> SHR should be easy to try, and is supposed to do everything you want.
> There's
> a GUI for the GPRS config. It has multiplexing so GPRS, SMS and telephony
> should work together (I say should as I haven't tried GPRS recently.)
> Midori
> might be a suitable browser, although there is a problematic interaction
> between the illume keyboard and midori's address autocompletion at the
> moment.
>
>
There are other browsers in the SHR feeds so if you don't like Midori you
can replace it, some worth mentioning is  Eve, Links/Links-x11, Dillo use to
be in the feeds but don't know why the one from opkg.org wouldn't work.

Debian or hackable:1 may be worth a try too. They have a wider selection of
> browsers available, but I don't know the status of the telephony side.
>
> > Please do not suggest the iPhone because until
> > the iPhone 3GS was released, Apple refused to accept my money even though
> I
> > wanted their product:  the only way to buy a new iPhone in Canada from a
> > store was to sign a 3-year term contract with Rogers or Fido.  That is
> > illogical.  If I want Apple’s product, Apple should sell it to me.  I do
> >  not want to sign a 3-year term contract.  I have no term contract with
> my
> >  Fido monthly plan.  With Rogers, I would have had to sign at least a
> >  1-year term contract, pay a 1-time activation fee plus a System Access
> Fee
> >  every month. I still had to pay a 1-time activation fee with Fido, but I
> >  do not pay any System Access Fee nor did I have to sign a term contract.
> >  Anyway, I decided I am not buying an iPhone because I do not want to
> >  encourage Apple to not sell their products to consumers, such as me, who
> >  can afford them but do not want to sign a 3-year term contract.  Why
> would
> >  I want to develop an application for a device (the iPhone) no one in
> >  Canada can buy new from a store without signing a 3-year service
> >  agreement?  My users would have to jailbreak their iPhone just to use my
> >  app because Apple wants control over their platform.  I do not want an
> >  iPod Touch because then I still need a separate phone.  I already used
> to
> >  have a separate phone and PDA.  I want less devices to always carry with
> >  me, not more.  Anyway, I know this post has turned into a rant about the
> >  iPhone.  I think if I had to choose a proprietary phone, I would be
> >  limited to non-Android Linux phones because I want the same OS on my
> phone
> >  as on my PCs, which run Ubuntu and Windows NT (Vista, but it is still
> >  Windows NT, not Windows.), not iPhone OS, Symbian OS, Windows CE/Windows
> >  Mobile/Pocket PC/whatever it is called now because Microsoft loves
> >  renaming things, BlackBerry stains, or some other crappy, ephemeral, and
> >  proprietary OS used on only 1 type of computer (cell phones and/or
> PDAs).
> >  Windows NT does not run on ARM even though modern embedded computers are
> >  more powerful than the desktop computers Windows NT originally ran on.
> >  Ubuntu is based on Debian, which runs on the FreeRunner, so QtMoko/plain
> >  Debian it is.  I do not want to start an Android rant, but let’s just
> say
> >  I am avoiding Android because it is non-standard,
> > proprietary, uses Java (I hate Java because it is gross.) and is hyped by
> > the same people who hype Java:  non-programmers who do not even use it.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brolin
> >
>
>
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Least-hassle method of getting a usable Web browser + telephony support while GPRS is enabled?

[Al Johnson]

On Thursday 17 December 2009, Brolin Empey wrote:
> Hello list,
> 
> I am using QtMoko v14.  AFAIK, QtMoko does not support GSM multiplexing,
> which means even if I had a working and usable Web browser for QtMoko, I
> could not use telephony functionality, such as making and receiving phone
> calls, while GPRS is enabled.  If I wanted to have Internet access on my
> FreeRunner, what is the least-hassle method of getting a usable Web browser
> + telephony and SMS support while GPRS is enabled?  Am I better off finding
> a usable proprietary phone?

Since you've already got the phone you may as well give the other firmware 
options a try. We keep finding people have different definitions of 'usable' 
so you'll have to see what suits you.

SHR should be easy to try, and is supposed to do everything you want. There's 
a GUI for the GPRS config. It has multiplexing so GPRS, SMS and telephony 
should work together (I say should as I haven't tried GPRS recently.) Midori 
might be a suitable browser, although there is a problematic interaction 
between the illume keyboard and midori's address autocompletion at the moment.

Debian or hackable:1 may be worth a try too. They have a wider selection of 
browsers available, but I don't know the status of the telephony side.

> Please do not suggest the iPhone because until
> the iPhone 3GS was released, Apple refused to accept my money even though I
> wanted their product:  the only way to buy a new iPhone in Canada from a
> store was to sign a 3-year term contract with Rogers or Fido.  That is
> illogical.  If I want Apple’s product, Apple should sell it to me.  I do
>  not want to sign a 3-year term contract.  I have no term contract with my
>  Fido monthly plan.  With Rogers, I would have had to sign at least a
>  1-year term contract, pay a 1-time activation fee plus a System Access Fee
>  every month. I still had to pay a 1-time activation fee with Fido, but I
>  do not pay any System Access Fee nor did I have to sign a term contract. 
>  Anyway, I decided I am not buying an iPhone because I do not want to
>  encourage Apple to not sell their products to consumers, such as me, who
>  can afford them but do not want to sign a 3-year term contract.  Why would
>  I want to develop an application for a device (the iPhone) no one in
>  Canada can buy new from a store without signing a 3-year service
>  agreement?  My users would have to jailbreak their iPhone just to use my
>  app because Apple wants control over their platform.  I do not want an
>  iPod Touch because then I still need a separate phone.  I already used to
>  have a separate phone and PDA.  I want less devices to always carry with
>  me, not more.  Anyway, I know this post has turned into a rant about the
>  iPhone.  I think if I had to choose a proprietary phone, I would be
>  limited to non-Android Linux phones because I want the same OS on my phone
>  as on my PCs, which run Ubuntu and Windows NT (Vista, but it is still
>  Windows NT, not Windows.), not iPhone OS, Symbian OS, Windows CE/Windows
>  Mobile/Pocket PC/whatever it is called now because Microsoft loves
>  renaming things, BlackBerry stains, or some other crappy, ephemeral, and
>  proprietary OS used on only 1 type of computer (cell phones and/or PDAs). 
>  Windows NT does not run on ARM even though modern embedded computers are
>  more powerful than the desktop computers Windows NT originally ran on. 
>  Ubuntu is based on Debian, which runs on the FreeRunner, so QtMoko/plain
>  Debian it is.  I do not want to start an Android rant, but let’s just say
>  I am avoiding Android because it is non-standard,
> proprietary, uses Java (I hate Java because it is gross.) and is hyped by
> the same people who hype Java:  non-programmers who do not even use it.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brolin
> 


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Least-hassle method of getting a usable Web browser + telephony support while GPRS is enabled?

[Brolin Empey]

Hello list,

I am using QtMoko v14.  AFAIK, QtMoko does not support GSM multiplexing,
which means even if I had a working and usable Web browser for QtMoko, I
could not use telephony functionality, such as making and receiving phone
calls, while GPRS is enabled.  If I wanted to have Internet access on my
FreeRunner, what is the least-hassle method of getting a usable Web browser
+ telephony and SMS support while GPRS is enabled?  Am I better off finding
a usable proprietary phone?  Please do not suggest the iPhone because until
the iPhone 3GS was released, Apple refused to accept my money even though I
wanted their product:  the only way to buy a new iPhone in Canada from a
store was to sign a 3-year term contract with Rogers or Fido.  That is
illogical.  If I want Apple’s product, Apple should sell it to me.  I do not
want to sign a 3-year term contract.  I have no term contract with my Fido
monthly plan.  With Rogers, I would have had to sign at least a 1-year term
contract, pay a 1-time activation fee plus a System Access Fee every month.
I still had to pay a 1-time activation fee with Fido, but I do not pay any
System Access Fee nor did I have to sign a term contract.  Anyway, I decided
I am not buying an iPhone because I do not want to encourage Apple to not
sell their products to consumers, such as me, who can afford them but do not
want to sign a 3-year term contract.  Why would I want to develop an
application for a device (the iPhone) no one in Canada can buy new from a
store without signing a 3-year service agreement?  My users would have to
jailbreak their iPhone just to use my app because Apple wants control over
their platform.  I do not want an iPod Touch because then I still need a
separate phone.  I already used to have a separate phone and PDA.  I want
less devices to always carry with me, not more.  Anyway, I know this post
has turned into a rant about the iPhone.  I think if I had to choose a
proprietary phone, I would be limited to non-Android Linux phones because I
want the same OS on my phone as on my PCs, which run Ubuntu and Windows NT
(Vista, but it is still Windows NT, not Windows.), not iPhone OS, Symbian
OS, Windows CE/Windows Mobile/Pocket PC/whatever it is called now because
Microsoft loves renaming things, BlackBerry stains, or some other crappy,
ephemeral, and proprietary OS used on only 1 type of computer (cell phones
and/or PDAs).  Windows NT does not run on ARM even though modern embedded
computers are more powerful than the desktop computers Windows NT originally
ran on.  Ubuntu is based on Debian, which runs on the FreeRunner, so
QtMoko/plain Debian it is.  I do not want to start an Android rant, but
let’s just say I am avoiding Android because it is non-standard,
proprietary, uses Java (I hate Java because it is gross.) and is hyped by
the same people who hype Java:  non-programmers who do not even use it.

Thanks,
Brolin

-- 
Sometimes I forget how to do small talk: 

“If you have to ask why, you’re not a member of the intended audience.” —
Bob Zimbinski, 
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community