Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Dr. Michael Lauer mic...@vanille-media.de writes: as far as i know, openmoko is no longer working on phones. Unfortunately the freedom loving people are doomed to either work on anti-vendor-ports (such as HTC devices etc.) or live with one of the semi-free alternatives (Palm Pre, Nokia N900). Right now there is no device rivaling the FreeRunner's openness, nothing comes close. I don't see that changing soon. Do you have any insights regarding Bluebird's `Pidion' devices (beyond `wow, they're expensive' :))? cf.: http://www.sdgsystems.com/ -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
On Friday 13 August 2010, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN: Hi, When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released??? Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS. Let me ask two questions to everybody: * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available? Until I need a new phone, probably when the Freerunner dies or the providers switch everything to 3G. It would be very painful going back to a closed device now. * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board? Probably up to €500 since that's about where the n900 and Nexus One appeared. n900s are getting cheaper and more open though... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
I might be the other person who likes the bezel. It's a little too close to the screen, but it prevents the screen from accidental scratches and misclicks. The resistive screen is quite soft, and I'd be afraid to put it face-down on uneven surfaces or put it in my pocket in fear that the screen changes shape permanently. If it was a capacitative touchscreen, I would prefer no bezel. To answer the original question: I think I wouldn't buy a phone without a physical keyboard again. My main phone use is messages, so tactile feedback makes me many times faster and less frustrated. Cheers, rhn On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:14:35 -0400 Benjamin Deering ben_deer...@swissmail.org wrote: I would pre-order in the $300 us range. 500 euro is a little steep for a board with no case, speakers, touch screen, etc. It seems like the biggest problems on the GTA-02 were all with closed modules (wifi, glamo, calypso). It sounds like a UMTS module would have to be closed, but if it were loosely coupled to the device (4 usb traces and an antenna) I think we could work with it. Since my FR is getting better all the time (2.6.32 speedups have been great, thanks) I can wait quite a while for a replacement. I can't imaging using a closed phone now. I may be the only person who likes the screen bezel on the freerunner. I have taken my phone on canoeing and backpacking trips just wrapped in a dry-bag and only cracked one screen (which is how I ended up with a second phone). As for expansion ports, an internal usb hub and some solder pads would probably meet my needs. I would think the new device would need a second usb controller anyways (one in host mode for UMTS and internal expansion, one in gadget/host mode with an external connector). Ben On 08/15/2010 06:06 AM, Ed Kapitein wrote: Hi Nikolaus, I would prefer pre orders to finance the next FR. and with a discount for the pre-order i think it is possible to raise the money for the development. lets say 400 Euro with pre-order and 500 euro without pre ordering? I might be one of the people who will preorder. ( or just buy a 50 euro nokia... :-) ) Kind regards, Ed On 08/13/2010 07:18 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 13.08.2010 um 12:35 schrieb Neil Brown: On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:22:02 +0200 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schallerh...@computer.org wrote: Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN: Hi, When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released??? Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS. Let me ask two questions to everybody: * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available? * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board? Is there a serious possibility of this? I wasn't open enough, intentionally :) Yes, there is a serious possibility. The Openmoko Beagle Hybrid Board is a first step for those who want to be early participants of this new era. In addition, we (a small project team in Munich, Germany) have mostly finished our homework (i.e. doing prototypes and experiments like the OM Beagle Hybrid, doing PCB layout) to be sure that it *can* be done. Really building such boards will still cost a significant amount of money (for paying components, professional PCB manufacturing and SMD soldering) and time (therefore: my question how long you would wait). I'm willing to wait a couple of years at least. And the 500 Euro number that It will definitively not take several years. people are throwing around seems OK. To finance the next phase, we are thinking about asking for donations or to hold an auction for the first 5 or 10 prototype units. What would you think of such an approach? Would this be re-using the case, display and touch screen and replacing everything else? Yes, that is the idea. More information (e.g. complete feature list) and openness (as suggested by arne anka) is to come soon. Please watch out for announcements in the next couple of weeks... Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
I would pre-order in the $300 us range. 500 euro is a little steep for a board with no case, speakers, touch screen, etc. It seems like the biggest problems on the GTA-02 were all with closed modules (wifi, glamo, calypso). It sounds like a UMTS module would have to be closed, but if it were loosely coupled to the device (4 usb traces and an antenna) I think we could work with it. Since my FR is getting better all the time (2.6.32 speedups have been great, thanks) I can wait quite a while for a replacement. I can't imaging using a closed phone now. I may be the only person who likes the screen bezel on the freerunner. I have taken my phone on canoeing and backpacking trips just wrapped in a dry-bag and only cracked one screen (which is how I ended up with a second phone). As for expansion ports, an internal usb hub and some solder pads would probably meet my needs. I would think the new device would need a second usb controller anyways (one in host mode for UMTS and internal expansion, one in gadget/host mode with an external connector). Ben On 08/15/2010 06:06 AM, Ed Kapitein wrote: Hi Nikolaus, I would prefer pre orders to finance the next FR. and with a discount for the pre-order i think it is possible to raise the money for the development. lets say 400 Euro with pre-order and 500 euro without pre ordering? I might be one of the people who will preorder. ( or just buy a 50 euro nokia... :-) ) Kind regards, Ed On 08/13/2010 07:18 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 13.08.2010 um 12:35 schrieb Neil Brown: On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:22:02 +0200 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schallerh...@computer.org wrote: Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN: Hi, When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released??? Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS. Let me ask two questions to everybody: * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available? * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board? Is there a serious possibility of this? I wasn't open enough, intentionally :) Yes, there is a serious possibility. The Openmoko Beagle Hybrid Board is a first step for those who want to be early participants of this new era. In addition, we (a small project team in Munich, Germany) have mostly finished our homework (i.e. doing prototypes and experiments like the OM Beagle Hybrid, doing PCB layout) to be sure that it *can* be done. Really building such boards will still cost a significant amount of money (for paying components, professional PCB manufacturing and SMD soldering) and time (therefore: my question how long you would wait). I'm willing to wait a couple of years at least. And the 500 Euro number that It will definitively not take several years. people are throwing around seems OK. To finance the next phase, we are thinking about asking for donations or to hold an auction for the first 5 or 10 prototype units. What would you think of such an approach? Would this be re-using the case, display and touch screen and replacing everything else? Yes, that is the idea. More information (e.g. complete feature list) and openness (as suggested by arne anka) is to come soon. Please watch out for announcements in the next couple of weeks... Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Hi Nikolaus, I would prefer pre orders to finance the next FR. and with a discount for the pre-order i think it is possible to raise the money for the development. lets say 400 Euro with pre-order and 500 euro without pre ordering? I might be one of the people who will preorder. ( or just buy a 50 euro nokia... :-) ) Kind regards, Ed On 08/13/2010 07:18 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 13.08.2010 um 12:35 schrieb Neil Brown: On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:22:02 +0200 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN: Hi, When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released??? Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS. Let me ask two questions to everybody: * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available? * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board? Is there a serious possibility of this? I wasn't open enough, intentionally :) Yes, there is a serious possibility. The Openmoko Beagle Hybrid Board is a first step for those who want to be early participants of this new era. In addition, we (a small project team in Munich, Germany) have mostly finished our homework (i.e. doing prototypes and experiments like the OM Beagle Hybrid, doing PCB layout) to be sure that it *can* be done. Really building such boards will still cost a significant amount of money (for paying components, professional PCB manufacturing and SMD soldering) and time (therefore: my question how long you would wait). I'm willing to wait a couple of years at least. And the 500 Euro number that It will definitively not take several years. people are throwing around seems OK. To finance the next phase, we are thinking about asking for donations or to hold an auction for the first 5 or 10 prototype units. What would you think of such an approach? Would this be re-using the case, display and touch screen and replacing everything else? Yes, that is the idea. More information (e.g. complete feature list) and openness (as suggested by arne anka) is to come soon. Please watch out for announcements in the next couple of weeks... Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
El día Friday, August 13, 2010 a las 11:53:07PM +0100, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra escribió: Em 13-08-2010 10:37, Matthias Apitz escreveu: Wrong question, for me. I will not use any other 'smartphone' (computerphone), which: - is not Linux or FreeBSD driven and open as Linux/FreeBSD are normaly Ah, so you'll not be using any Android/Linux, I see :) No, of course not. matthias -- Matthias Apitz t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e g...@unixarea.de - w http://www.unixarea.de/ Solidarity with the zionistic pirates of Israel? Not in my name! ¿Solidaridad con los piratas sionistas de Israel? ¡No en mi nombre! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Hi, Am 14.08.2010 um 09:48 schrieb David Morris: Hi Dr. Schaller, I am interested in new boards with umts. I would like more openness with the radio module including dynamically assigning an imei and using a remote sim card. Unfortunately this is beyond what we can provide. The trick to build such an upgrade-board at a fairly reasonable price is to use some halfway (at least AT commands and interfaces) open and precertified UMTS module. Part of this certification requires that it is not possible to change IMEI :( Please view the concept as a (more or less closed) UMTS stick/key with USB interface soldered onto the main board like in all the 3G-Netbooks floating around. For providing such a feature we would have to design and certify our own complete UMTS system. And that is the million $$$ effort large handset suppliers can afford. It has turned out that there are currently only two such modules that are small enough to fit into the existing plastics. One comes from OPTION, the other one from Ericsson. Both still have unfortunately some NDA limitations - but we are working on it. BR, Nikolaus PS: it appears that I am not the only one who posts long lines... I'd also be interested in bidding in an auction for prototypes in order to raise cash. Sent from my mobile On 13 Aug 2010, at 18:54, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Am 13.08.2010 um 11:51 schrieb arne anka: Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS. Let me ask two questions to everybody: * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available? * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board? - re waiting: since most people change their phones after a couple of years, waiting shouldn't be an issue -- per se. more important would be to see a definite progress and sufficient informatrion about the way development takes (including delays, glitches and so on). Another question: where would you like such status messages and discussions take place? Here on the community list? Or on the om-devel-list? Or on a new, project specific devel/issues list? Nikolaus ___ devel mailing list de...@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/devel ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
+1 Rui Miguel too! 2010/8/14 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org Em 13-08-2010 10:56, Matthias Apitz escreveu: Em 13-08-2010 10:49, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escreveu: Do I interpret you correclty, that your answer to my questions are: * I will wait *any* time, as long as it fulfills my opensource requirements yes; * I accept any price yes, any price in the range of my Freerunner, more or less; or even 500 euro, depends on my economic situation in that moment; Add me as a metoo if you want. I had a Nokia 6600 (I regret the 500€ but I extended them as much as I could), shortly after I learn of OpenMoko. I decided to try to keep 6600 until Freerunner comes out, but sadly one year before that I sent it for a 20 min swim. Still no Freerunner, so I get a cheap Nokia 2760 (GTA01 was clearly too early for me), lasts until today carrying my job's SIM (the work phone is *that* crappy). My main phone, carrying my personal SIM is OpenMoko and I'm treating it as carefully as I can to extend it's life well beyond the current two years, 1.5 of them with definite usage :) If it breaks, and no viable alternative exists, I hope to get an A7+, or A7, or A6, or A5+buzz fix (in this decreasing order of preference). Even with all the bugs and immaturity of the platform, I'm so passionate for Free Software I rather go through all this again than go back to proprietary phones or get a pseudo-open phone (Android/Linux, Meego, etc...). To all SHR and FSO core develpers: a *HUGE* thank you, I'm only sorry I can't help out more. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
First, let me start by saying I bought a Neo 1973, and would support such a device again -- depending on my finances at the time. :) On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 6:41 AM, arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de wrote: And, I never understood why we should assume, that a premier league player would ever care for a small community like ours. not for that small community per se. it would most likely be only a intersection of interests. the manufacturer would be able to - gain a reputation as being open (which might appeal to goverments as well b/c of several reasons) Or not -- see the current spat over Blackberry in India/UAE/etc. Open isn't good for governments looking for tight controls. And while it might be great for their citizens, it's the gov'ts that control devices, unfortunately. - additional promotion by mouth-to-mouth through people being interested in open devices, probably cheaper than paid merchandising for the same group While this is true, this target audience is small. - somewhat broadened developer base Do you really think that the term open will attract more developers? Maybe a handful or two, but developers flock to where the money is. See iPhone. :S - android inspired cost structure: make your hw specs public - enable developers to make the best from it - gain market share since your device offers the most b/c developers can use the hw and are not limited to app-like apis (cf iP[od|hone|ad]) with the success of android, i think a more open approach might appeal to vendors. I'm not up on all the latest android stuff, but from what I've seen, you can make a pretty closed system from those building blocks. What Sean got right was that a phone should have mass appeal. If your girlfriend and her mother want to use it, then that's good. The Neo and the Freerunner are second (third?) class hardware -- there is no doubt. The idea was to build great software, and that would make the appeal to ordinary people strong, despite having hardware that wasn't best of class. The problem was that the great software never got there, and combined with old and problematic hardware, it didn't have a decent chance. It's clear from the GTA03/0X wishlists that there are people out there who want an open phone. Some are even willing to pay good money for one. I am. However, to not end up with a hobbyist phone, some compromises have to be made. Not everyone will be happy, but the journey to a fully open smartphone will be long, expensive and perilous. It's important not to lose sight of the end goal -- which should be a device that is long-term viable. There aren't enough geeks out there to make an open phone successful, unfortunately. And to get the latest bells and whistles, the phone has to be successful, so that there is another phone to follow. So, it's important that the phone be pleasing to the eye, have good software and hardware. So, forget about open short term. Consumers don't care, vendors don't care, operators don't care. If we can build something _appealing_, that hackers find fun and consumers will buy, even if it isn't as open as everyone would like, then that would be awesome. And as such a project gains success, it has more clout and more money. And more clout and more money means more leverage with suppliers, hopefully meaning that things can be more and more open. Let's remember that even the great iPhone maker Apple stumbled with their first phone -- not iPhone 1, but the joint deal with Motorola called Rokr. And even their latest phone has some issues. Now, some on the mailing list might already know this. What I haven't seen, so far, is anyone talk about how many devices would be needed to be a success. Would 100,000 phones do it? 1 Million? More, or less? I'd love to see a truly open smartphone running Linux and BSD, with full access to as much of the hardware as we want. I'm hoping to see this sooner, but we'll have to see how many intermediate steps there are, from mostly closed to fully open. I'm willing to accept Android as a stepping stone, but it won't warm anyone to open or push suppliers in that direction. Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
- gain a reputation as being open (which might appeal to goverments as well b/c of several reasons) Or not -- see the current spat over Blackberry in India/UAE/etc. Open isn't good for governments looking for tight controls. And while it might be great for their citizens, it's the gov'ts that control devices, unfortunately. the spat you mentioned is just about rim not being open with it's servers. were they open, gouverments could simply set up their own and force their citizens to use those. what i was refering to, wa sthe fact that with open sw/hw gouvernments would be able to check on their own the integrity and safety of implemantations, not being dependent on the vendors. - additional promotion by mouth-to-mouth through people being interested in open devices, probably cheaper than paid merchandising for the same group While this is true, this target audience is small. sure. but so is, after all, the target audience for apple products. and as said before, openess would have this increased promotion at no additional costs. - somewhat broadened developer base Do you really think that the term open will attract more developers? Maybe a handful or two, but developers flock to where the money is. See iPhone. :S see below. openess would mean, developers are not restricted by limited apis, but could access the complete bandwith of options available. - android inspired cost structure: make your hw specs public - enable developers to make the best from it - gain market share since your device offers the most b/c developers can use the hw and are not limited to app-like apis (cf iP[od|hone|ad]) with the success of android, i think a more open approach might appeal to vendors. I'm not up on all the latest android stuff, but from what I've seen, you can make a pretty closed system from those building blocks. sure you can. but otoh, android being (more or less) opene, it allows vendors to get their devices to market in rather limited time compared to closed, vendor-specific os which need a lot of inhouse investment to develop and get stable. and seeing how an open os, offered at no costs helps saving money, an open hw design easily extensible might appeal as well. assume vendor X creates a design freely available, there would probably be a lot of other vendors re-use that design to decrease their costs -- google did not create android out of altruistic motives, they have their profit and interests at heart, and yet, android is attractive to the market. but after all, i have the sure feeling as if the very same discussion has been had already, years ago and all arguments have been on the table already. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Heya, On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 10:40 AM, arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de wrote: - gain a reputation as being open (which might appeal to goverments as well b/c of several reasons) Or not -- see the current spat over Blackberry in India/UAE/etc. Open isn't good for governments looking for tight controls. And while it might be great for their citizens, it's the gov'ts that control devices, unfortunately. the spat you mentioned is just about rim not being open with it's servers. were they open, gouverments could simply set up their own and force their citizens to use those. what i was refering to, wa sthe fact that with open sw/hw gouvernments would be able to check on their own the integrity and safety of implemantations, not being dependent on the vendors. The issue I was referring to was if hardware and software is open enough, then said governments won't even consider allowing the devices in, since end users could use them to circumvent whatever protections the regulators put on. - additional promotion by mouth-to-mouth through people being interested in open devices, probably cheaper than paid merchandising for the same group While this is true, this target audience is small. sure. but so is, after all, the target audience for apple products. and as said before, openess would have this increased promotion at no additional costs. With 14% of the market and 4th place in the Smartphone market (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Smartphone_share_2009_full.png), I would say that Apple's target audience is naturally slightly larger. Would apple being open help them? In some ways, sure. However, if we had Apple's war chest, we wouldn't be having discussions, we'd all have devices in our hands. :S - somewhat broadened developer base Do you really think that the term open will attract more developers? Maybe a handful or two, but developers flock to where the money is. See iPhone. :S see below. openess would mean, developers are not restricted by limited apis, but could access the complete bandwith of options available. Lot's of platforms have crap apis. If api's defined success, Unix would have triumphed over Windows long ago. Nice APIs do help, don't get me wrong -- but don't get lost in the clouds. - android inspired cost structure: make your hw specs public - enable developers to make the best from it - gain market share since your device offers the most b/c developers can use the hw and are not limited to app-like apis (cf iP[od|hone|ad]) with the success of android, i think a more open approach might appeal to vendors. I'm not up on all the latest android stuff, but from what I've seen, you can make a pretty closed system from those building blocks. sure you can. but otoh, android being (more or less) opene, it allows vendors to get their devices to market in rather limited time compared to closed, vendor-specific os which need a lot of inhouse investment to develop and get stable. and seeing how an open os, offered at no costs helps saving money, an open hw design easily extensible might appeal as well. assume vendor X creates a design freely available, there would probably be a lot of other vendors re-use that design to decrease their costs -- google did not create android out of altruistic motives, they have their profit and interests at heart, and yet, android is attractive to the market. but after all, i have the sure feeling as if the very same discussion has been had already, years ago and all arguments have been on the table already. True true. If Android is used as a stepping stone, I think that is fine. But Android isnn't the end, it's only something along the path. Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN: Hi, When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released??? Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS. Let me ask two questions to everybody: * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available? * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board? Regards, Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
El día Friday, August 13, 2010 a las 11:22:02AM +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escribió: Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN: Hi, When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released??? Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS. Let me ask two questions to everybody: * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available? * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board? Wrong question, for me. I will not use any other 'smartphone' (computerphone), which: - is not Linux or FreeBSD driven and open as Linux/FreeBSD are normaly - does not have X11 - does not provide access by SSH to the system - does not have a resistive touchscreen (to address single pixel) So, an iPhone is no option for me; if my Freerunner will fail, I will try to get it working again, and I will wait until the next generation of OpenSource phones, even if I would have to reactivate my old Siemens S10 for some time, meanwhile waiting. Give me UNIX or give me a pencil :-) matthias -- Matthias Apitz t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e g...@unixarea.de - w http://www.unixarea.de/ Solidarity with the zionistic pirates of Israel? Not in my name! ¿Solidaridad con los piratas sionistas de Israel? ¡No en mi nombre! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Le 13/08/2010 11:37, Matthias Apitz a écrit : Wrong question, for me. I will not use any other 'smartphone' (computerphone), which: - is not Linux or FreeBSD driven and open as Linux/FreeBSD are normaly - does not have X11 - does not provide access by SSH to the system - does not have a resistive touchscreen (to address single pixel) So, an iPhone is no option for me; if my Freerunner will fail, I will try to get it working again, and I will wait until the next generation of OpenSource phones, even if I would have to reactivate my old Siemens S10 for some time, meanwhile waiting. Give me UNIX or give me a pencil :-) matthias Well written. Same thing here for me (but I don't care about touchscreen being capacitive or resistive). Xavier. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
On 13/08/10 10:37, Matthias Apitz wrote: Give me UNIX or give me a pencil :-) +1 with emphasis on being about to modify ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Am 13.08.2010 um 11:37 schrieb Matthias Apitz: El día Friday, August 13, 2010 a las 11:22:02AM +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escribió: Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN: Hi, When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released??? Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS. Let me ask two questions to everybody: * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available? * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board? Wrong question, for me. I will not use any other 'smartphone' (computerphone), which: - is not Linux or FreeBSD driven and open as Linux/FreeBSD are normaly - does not have X11 - does not provide access by SSH to the system - does not have a resistive touchscreen (to address single pixel) So, an iPhone is no option for me; if my Freerunner will fail, I will try to get it working again, and I will wait until the next generation of OpenSource phones, even if I would have to reactivate my old Siemens S10 for some time, meanwhile waiting. Give me UNIX or give me a pencil :-) Do I interpret you correclty, that your answer to my questions are: * I will wait *any* time, as long as it fulfills my opensource requirements * I accept any price regards, Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS. Let me ask two questions to everybody: * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available? * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board? - re waiting: since most people change their phones after a couple of years, waiting shouldn't be an issue -- per se. more important would be to see a definite progress and sufficient informatrion about the way development takes (including delays, glitches and so on). seeing how nokia neglects the maemo/n900 community, not only in terms of information about fixes, updates, and the migration to meego, i think that's definitely the wrong way. so, having a working phone right now and for the foreseeable future, i would be able to wait 2, 3 years (and if another accaptable phone comes out in the meantime, maybe even longer) - cost otoh is really difficult. what company ever will attempt to make a free phone, it will need lots of money for development (not to speak of the still valid issue of purchasing items in small numbers to high prices). seeing, that i spend 300 on the fr and 500 on the n900 (two years later), i guess, that's the range -- but then again, the fr's casing is not really up-to-date and most likely the retro-trend will not discover the 2000s in the near future ;-). what i like in the n900 is the big screen or rather the screen-to-surface-ratio and missing bezel, and the slide-out keyboard (not the keyboard layout, though), which would enable me to use the consoles w/o X, if maemo would allow that ... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
wasn't there something about samsung making the hw specs public for at least one of their samrtphones? i can't find that news article again. and a long time ago someone (raster? can't find that mail) wrote about big things to come -- even that in connection with samsung? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
El día Friday, August 13, 2010 a las 11:49:13AM +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escribió: Am 13.08.2010 um 11:37 schrieb Matthias Apitz: El día Friday, August 13, 2010 a las 11:22:02AM +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escribió: Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN: Hi, When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released??? Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS. Let me ask two questions to everybody: * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available? * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board? Wrong question, for me. I will not use any other 'smartphone' (computerphone), which: - is not Linux or FreeBSD driven and open as Linux/FreeBSD are normaly - does not have X11 - does not provide access by SSH to the system - does not have a resistive touchscreen (to address single pixel) So, an iPhone is no option for me; if my Freerunner will fail, I will try to get it working again, and I will wait until the next generation of OpenSource phones, even if I would have to reactivate my old Siemens S10 for some time, meanwhile waiting. Give me UNIX or give me a pencil :-) Do I interpret you correclty, that your answer to my questions are: * I will wait *any* time, as long as it fulfills my opensource requirements yes; * I accept any price yes, any price in the range of my Freerunner, more or less; or even 500 euro, depends on my economic situation in that moment; matthias -- Matthias Apitz t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e g...@unixarea.de - w http://www.unixarea.de/ Solidarity with the zionistic pirates of Israel? Not in my name! ¿Solidaridad con los piratas sionistas de Israel? ¡No en mi nombre! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:22:02AM +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN: Hi, When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released??? Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS. Let me ask two questions to everybody: * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available? As long as my SIM card remains compatible with the Freerunner. * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board? Depends on how good it is (Wifi/GPS/3G/etc. support). Maybe 500 euros. -- Ben Thompson ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Am 13.08.2010 um 11:53 schrieb arne anka: wasn't there something about samsung making the hw specs public for at least one of their samrtphones? i can't find that news article again. and a long time ago someone (raster? can't find that mail) wrote about big things to come -- even that in connection with samsung? Yes, I remember this as well. And, there was also some recent initiative by 'leviathan' to discuss with Samsung. But IMHO, even if they open the hw specs for one device, this will be one device. No promise for a future one. Some day they simply pull the plug for unknown reasons (like Sharp did with the Zaurus). And, I never understood why we should assume, that a premier league player would ever care for a small community like ours. According to latest Gartner data Samsung sells 65 million phones per quarter. We have approx. 15k Freerunners over 3 years. My conclusion is that a small company promises more long-term stability than a large one, even if development cost is high (it is lower than you all assume), and component cost are high in low quantities (that depends a little on choosing the right components). Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:22:02 +0200 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN: Hi, When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released??? Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS. Let me ask two questions to everybody: * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available? * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board? Is there a serious possibility of this? I'm willing to wait a couple of years at least. And the 500 Euro number that people are throwing around seems OK. Would this be re-using the case, display and touch screen and replacing everything else? NeilBrown ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
And, I never understood why we should assume, that a premier league player would ever care for a small community like ours. not for that small community per se. it would most likely be only a intersection of interests. the manufacturer would be able to - gain a reputation as being open (which might appeal to goverments as well b/c of several reasons) - additional promotion by mouth-to-mouth through people being interested in open devices, probably cheaper than paid merchandising for the same group - somewhat broadened developer base - android inspired cost structure: make your hw specs public - enable developers to make the best from it - gain market share since your device offers the most b/c developers can use the hw and are not limited to app-like apis (cf iP[od|hone|ad]) with the success of android, i think a more open approach might appeal to vendors. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:22:02 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN: Hi, When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released??? Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS. Let me ask two questions to everybody: * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available? 9 months, maximum 1.5 years. I don't think it will be dependent on the life of my freerunner, it will rather be dependent on the capability of living with the frustrations of the freerunner. There might be a moment I say, I'm tired of waiting for a great user experience on a open smartphone. Even though I like the great efforts of the community, we are still far from having a great user experience. (I bet there is greater developer experience then a user experience). Sometimes, the basic Nokia I received with some office supplies order is better for calling my bad hearing grand mother... . * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board? If it is a true open smartphone, more then what I paid the freerunner but I guess it certainly maxes out at 500euro's. Of course one should compare the features as well, will it have futuristic technology or technology of yesterday? I do would check deeper whether there is any NDA for whatever component which would limit open development. In that regard, I do not consider the freerunner a open phone and it is very likely I would never have bought one knowing there is a NDA limitation... . Money is not everything, ideals are? Hans ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
I will not use any other 'smartphone' (computerphone), which: - is not Linux or FreeBSD driven and open as Linux/FreeBSD are normaly - does not have X11 - does not provide access by SSH to the system - does not have a resistive touchscreen (to address single pixel) So, an iPhone is no option for me; if my Freerunner will fail, I will try to get it working again, and I will wait until the next generation of OpenSource phones, even if I would have to reactivate my old Siemens S10 for some time, meanwhile waiting. Give me UNIX or give me a pencil :-) Do I interpret you correclty, that your answer to my questions are: * I will wait *any* time, as long as it fulfills my opensource requirements As long as there is nothing like a GTA03, I have to wait. Stop waiting does not give me the GTA03. So I will wait any time... hoping that my GTA02 lasts a while. * I accept any price I would pay the costs of similar but closed hardware and additional 100 - 200 maybe 300 EUR for the opensource and non-industrial approach. I would like to see a GTA03 phone with better gsm sound quality, faster cpu, umts (or something like that) and less stability issues with wifi, suspending, graphics/X11 and rotating. Julius ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Am 13.08.2010 um 03:45 schrieb Joshua Judson Rosen: Brian bn...@rochester.rr.com writes: On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:55:21 +0200 Dr. Michael Lauer mic...@vanille-media.de wrote: Unfortunately the freedom loving people are doomed to either work on anti-vendor-ports (such as HTC devices etc.) or live with one of the semi-free alternatives (Palm Pre, Nokia N900). Right now there is no device rivaling the FreeRunner's openness, nothing comes close. I wouldn't necessarily color all ports of FOSS as anti-vendor. In fact don't they demonstrate the versatility and adaptability of FOSS in relation to all hardware, especially hardware that isn't open? That's a good thing if the goal is to strive towards choice for consumers. Granted it's not the ideal situation but it is a step in the right direction. The term anti-vendor port initially struck me as a little odd, as well, but now I think that Mickey is using a fairly strict definition of anti-, meaning contrary to--with anti-vendor meaning contrary to the vendor or (more clearly) contrary to the wishes or actions of the vendor. Correct. This is exactly what I mean – the vendor is not going to help you and chances are it has taken measures to make your job really hard (such as using completely undocumented custom silicon, let alone e-fuses or nightmares alike). :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
I totaly agree with Mattias! 2010/8/13 Matthias Apitz g...@unixarea.de El día Friday, August 13, 2010 a las 11:49:13AM +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escribió: Am 13.08.2010 um 11:37 schrieb Matthias Apitz: El día Friday, August 13, 2010 a las 11:22:02AM +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escribió: Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN: Hi, When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released??? Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS. Let me ask two questions to everybody: * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available? * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board? Wrong question, for me. I will not use any other 'smartphone' (computerphone), which: - is not Linux or FreeBSD driven and open as Linux/FreeBSD are normaly - does not have X11 - does not provide access by SSH to the system - does not have a resistive touchscreen (to address single pixel) So, an iPhone is no option for me; if my Freerunner will fail, I will try to get it working again, and I will wait until the next generation of OpenSource phones, even if I would have to reactivate my old Siemens S10 for some time, meanwhile waiting. Give me UNIX or give me a pencil :-) Do I interpret you correclty, that your answer to my questions are: * I will wait *any* time, as long as it fulfills my opensource requirements yes; * I accept any price yes, any price in the range of my Freerunner, more or less; or even 500 euro, depends on my economic situation in that moment; matthias -- Matthias Apitz t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e g...@unixarea.de - w http://www.unixarea.de/ Solidarity with the zionistic pirates of Israel? Not in my name! ¿Solidaridad con los piratas sionistas de Israel? ¡No en mi nombre! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Am 13.08.2010 um 12:35 schrieb Neil Brown: On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:22:02 +0200 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN: Hi, When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released??? Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS. Let me ask two questions to everybody: * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available? * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board? Is there a serious possibility of this? I wasn't open enough, intentionally :) Yes, there is a serious possibility. The Openmoko Beagle Hybrid Board is a first step for those who want to be early participants of this new era. In addition, we (a small project team in Munich, Germany) have mostly finished our homework (i.e. doing prototypes and experiments like the OM Beagle Hybrid, doing PCB layout) to be sure that it *can* be done. Really building such boards will still cost a significant amount of money (for paying components, professional PCB manufacturing and SMD soldering) and time (therefore: my question how long you would wait). I'm willing to wait a couple of years at least. And the 500 Euro number that It will definitively not take several years. people are throwing around seems OK. To finance the next phase, we are thinking about asking for donations or to hold an auction for the first 5 or 10 prototype units. What would you think of such an approach? Would this be re-using the case, display and touch screen and replacing everything else? Yes, that is the idea. More information (e.g. complete feature list) and openness (as suggested by arne anka) is to come soon. Please watch out for announcements in the next couple of weeks... Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Am Freitag 13 August 2010, 11:47:26 schrieb sam tygier: On 13/08/10 10:37, Matthias Apitz wrote: Give me UNIX or give me a pencil :-) +1 with emphasis on being about to modify I won't buy something without documented test/solder pads for hardware extensions. Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Am 13.08.2010 um 19:33 schrieb Christoph Mair: Am Freitag 13 August 2010, 11:47:26 schrieb sam tygier: On 13/08/10 10:37, Matthias Apitz wrote: Give me UNIX or give me a pencil :-) +1 with emphasis on being about to modify I won't buy something without documented test/solder pads for hardware extensions. +1 such a thing is quite unlikely to expect from any large phone manufacturer. Even if they open up an existing design. They ususally squeeze every bit out of the design to reduce manufacturing cost and may have very special test procedures. And they may change internals every now and then to improve their production process. I.e. you may get version B4 this week and someone else version C7 in two weeks with differences in the not-documented area. So we have to design a new GTA04 ourselves and add hardware extension pads to the requirements list... Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Am 13.08.2010 um 11:51 schrieb arne anka: Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS. Let me ask two questions to everybody: * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available? * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board? - re waiting: since most people change their phones after a couple of years, waiting shouldn't be an issue -- per se. more important would be to see a definite progress and sufficient informatrion about the way development takes (including delays, glitches and so on). Another question: where would you like such status messages and discussions take place? Here on the community list? Or on the om-devel-list? Or on a new, project specific devel/issues list? Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 07:18:36PM +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 13.08.2010 um 12:35 schrieb Neil Brown: On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:22:02 +0200 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN: Hi, When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released??? Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS. Let me ask two questions to everybody: * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available? * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board? Is there a serious possibility of this? I wasn't open enough, intentionally :) Yes, there is a serious possibility. Thank you! The Openmoko Beagle Hybrid Board is a first step for those who want to be early participants of this new era. In addition, we (a small project team in Munich, Germany) have mostly finished our homework (i.e. doing prototypes and experiments like the OM Beagle Hybrid, doing PCB layout) to be sure that it *can* be done. Really building such boards will still cost a significant amount of money (for paying components, professional PCB manufacturing and SMD soldering) and time (therefore: my question how long you would wait). I'm willing to wait a couple of years at least. And the 500 Euro number that It will definitively not take several years. people are throwing around seems OK. To finance the next phase, we are thinking about asking for donations or to hold an auction for the first 5 or 10 prototype units. What would you think of such an approach? I'm not keen on either (although would consider a donation). What about a pre-order? Would this be re-using the case, display and touch screen and replacing everything else? Yes, that is the idea. More information (e.g. complete feature list) and openness (as suggested by arne anka) is to come soon. Please watch out for announcements in the next couple of weeks... Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:02:35 +0200 Dr. Michael Lauer mic...@vanille-media.de wrote: Am 13.08.2010 um 03:45 schrieb Joshua Judson Rosen: Brian bn...@rochester.rr.com writes: On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:55:21 +0200 Dr. Michael Lauer mic...@vanille-media.de wrote: Unfortunately the freedom loving people are doomed to either work on anti-vendor-ports (such as HTC devices etc.) or live with one of the semi-free alternatives (Palm Pre, Nokia N900). Right now there is no device rivaling the FreeRunner's openness, nothing comes close. I wouldn't necessarily color all ports of FOSS as anti-vendor. In fact don't they demonstrate the versatility and adaptability of FOSS in relation to all hardware, especially hardware that isn't open? That's a good thing if the goal is to strive towards choice for consumers. Granted it's not the ideal situation but it is a step in the right direction. The term anti-vendor port initially struck me as a little odd, as well, but now I think that Mickey is using a fairly strict definition of anti-, meaning contrary to--with anti-vendor meaning contrary to the vendor or (more clearly) contrary to the wishes or actions of the vendor. Correct. This is exactly what I mean – the vendor is not going to help you and chances are it has taken measures to make your job really hard (such as using completely undocumented custom silicon, let alone e-fuses or nightmares alike). :M: It seems I got the wrong impression from the term anti-vendor. The context seems more obvious to me now than when I initially read your post. Sorry about the confusion. I think Openmoko was ahead of the curve in offering a device like the Freerunner. In a subsequent post you mention that the cost of RD isn't as prohibitive as one would think. Perhaps someone will pick up where Openmoko left off. It's a niche market but I find the phone quite usable even if it is a bit quirky at times. Brian ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:22:02 +0200 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN: Hi, When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released??? Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS. Let me ask two questions to everybody: * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available? As long as it takes for one to become available. I prefer the concept of using something that is as open as possible by design. * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board? People have been tossing the 500 euro (~$638 USD) benchmark around and that's a bit steep for me. Depending on the capabilities of the board and provided it's a drop in replacement I'd say ~$300-350 USD would be my limit. Brian ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
found the link to the samsung open sourcing hw specs http://www.androidcentral.com/samsung-releases-captivate-source-code-developers ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Le 13-08-2010, à 19:45:51 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller (h...@computer.org) a écrit : such a thing is quite unlikely to expect from any large phone manufacturer. Even if they open up an existing design. They ususally squeeze every bit out of the design to reduce manufacturing cost and may have very special test procedures. And they may change internals every now and then to improve their production process. I.e. you may get version B4 this week and someone else version C7 in two weeks with differences in the not-documented area. Nikolaus, couldn't you wrap your lines to something more standard (72 or so ?) Thanks, I like reading your prose, but those long lines are really irritating. Kind regards, steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Em 13-08-2010 10:37, Matthias Apitz escreveu: Wrong question, for me. I will not use any other 'smartphone' (computerphone), which: - is not Linux or FreeBSD driven and open as Linux/FreeBSD are normaly Ah, so you'll not be using any Android/Linux, I see :) Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Em 13-08-2010 10:56, Matthias Apitz escreveu: Em 13-08-2010 10:49, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escreveu: Do I interpret you correclty, that your answer to my questions are: * I will wait *any* time, as long as it fulfills my opensource requirements yes; * I accept any price yes, any price in the range of my Freerunner, more or less; or even 500 euro, depends on my economic situation in that moment; Add me as a metoo if you want. I had a Nokia 6600 (I regret the 500€ but I extended them as much as I could), shortly after I learn of OpenMoko. I decided to try to keep 6600 until Freerunner comes out, but sadly one year before that I sent it for a 20 min swim. Still no Freerunner, so I get a cheap Nokia 2760 (GTA01 was clearly too early for me), lasts until today carrying my job's SIM (the work phone is *that* crappy). My main phone, carrying my personal SIM is OpenMoko and I'm treating it as carefully as I can to extend it's life well beyond the current two years, 1.5 of them with definite usage :) If it breaks, and no viable alternative exists, I hope to get an A7+, or A7, or A6, or A5+buzz fix (in this decreasing order of preference). Even with all the bugs and immaturity of the platform, I'm so passionate for Free Software I rather go through all this again than go back to proprietary phones or get a pseudo-open phone (Android/Linux, Meego, etc...). To all SHR and FSO core develpers: a *HUGE* thank you, I'm only sorry I can't help out more. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 19:27:38 +0100 Ben Thompson b...@thompson.org.uk wrote: To finance the next phase, we are thinking about asking for donations or to hold an auction for the first 5 or 10 prototype units. What would you think of such an approach? I'm not keen on either (although would consider a donation). What about a pre-order? I'm not keen on an auction as it tends to focus on getting large amounts money from few people - those many who have modest amounts of money get excluded. I'm not very keen of straight donations either as you really need a strong accountability structure before donations are at all safe, and I don't think you want to go that way. I like pre-order, but I wonder about combining them all... Choose a maximum subscription and a minimum price. Invite people to pre-order and pay the minimum price or greater as they choose. Only take orders up to the maximum subscription. As units become available, fill orders in order of the price paid starting with those who paid the most. Publish basic statistics about orders received so far and allow people to know their position. Also allow people to top-up their orders to climb the list. That way people can donate and are rewarded by getting a phone sooner - but everyone still gets a phone. The maximum subscription ensures that no-one will continually be over-taken by someone new paying a little bit more. An unfortunate quirk of this method is that those who pay the most - and get the first phone - may end up with a phone that is defective as some bug may not have been found yet. (obviously people pay postage plus minimum price plus extra). Just an thought.. NeilBrown ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Hi I don't think anytime soon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko#Canceled_devices Regards, Nashvin On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 2:12 PM, RANJAN infi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released??? Regards Sriranjan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Hi, Hello, there (-= When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released??? As soon as you design it? I've heard that some people are looking at taking the openmoko core project and trying to apply it to better hardware. There were some offers to use production facilities and such, but I wouldn't hold my breath. But it would be nice. Regards Sriranjan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Hi Sriranjan, as far as i know, openmoko is no longer working on phones. Unfortunately the freedom loving people are doomed to either work on anti-vendor-ports (such as HTC devices etc.) or live with one of the semi-free alternatives (Palm Pre, Nokia N900). Right now there is no device rivaling the FreeRunner's openness, nothing comes close. I don't see that changing soon. Cheers, :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:55:21 +0200 Dr. Michael Lauer mic...@vanille-media.de wrote: Hi Sriranjan, as far as i know, openmoko is no longer working on phones. That does seem to be the case and it is a shame. Unfortunately the freedom loving people are doomed to either work on anti-vendor-ports (such as HTC devices etc.) or live with one of the semi-free alternatives (Palm Pre, Nokia N900). Right now there is no device rivaling the FreeRunner's openness, nothing comes close. I wouldn't necessarily color all ports of FOSS as anti-vendor. In fact don't they demonstrate the versatility and adaptability of FOSS in relation to all hardware, especially hardware that isn't open? That's a good thing if the goal is to strive towards choice for consumers. Granted it's not the ideal situation but it is a step in the right direction. I don't see that changing soon. Call me a glass half-full person but I have to disagree with you here. The fact that more ARM based mobile devices are becoming ubiquitous is going to drive prices down and will also drive innovation and quality up right? That's a good thing in my book, just as MS-DOS and Windows drove down the cost of hardware in the PC field. I do not however use or endorse Microsoft products but I do give them credit for helping to accelerate hardware development and make it more affordable. I'm not a lawyer and I wouldn't wish that upon my worst enemy but the international maze of patent and trade agreements must cost an absolute fortune to feed. It's ironic in a way, since the whole concept behind patents is to protect the inventor and allow them to recoup RD costs. It certainly wasn't envisioned as a means to create an unlimited cash cow that stifles innovation by threat of lawsuits which lead to bankruptcy. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's the sort of thing people like us that champion openness argue against right? The only reason why FOSS exists and will continue to exist is because there's nobody to bankrupt or buy out. We already know FOSS pays in spades just ask Google, IBM, Redhat etc. So why haven't the hardware manufacturers figured this out yet? I think they've come to the conclusion that the status quo suits them just fine. Too bad, it's stories like this one that illustrate what open hardware can accomplish that inspire me: http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/vietnam804/video/video_index.html Industrial collusion can be dangerous; it isn't always a bad thing provided it's monitored, sanctioned, and most of all open. That story is inspiring mainly due to it's human interest aspect. I'd like to see this sort of collusion in industry especially in aspects that affect all of us like pollution, food production, medicine etc. It's still baffling to me that industry just doesn't get it yet. Brian ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
On 12/08/10 13:12, RANJAN wrote: Hi, When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released??? Regards Sriranjan there are 2 projects working on a future open phone. GTA02-core http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gta02-core http://gta02-core-news.blogspot.com/ last thing i heard on the mailing list is that they plan to make a small number (something like 20), and were collecting names of people who wanted to buy them (costing more, than a freerunner, and with a low chance of being fully functional). basically good for devs. Openmoko Beagle Hybrid http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%20Beagle A board to attach a beagleboard to an openmoko phone. its not actually a functioning phone, but lets you design a software stack for a future openmoko type phone, with much faster hardware. note: i am not deeply involved, so i speak with no authority, but this is how i see it: the difficulty in making a working phone is the economies of scale. i think there were about 10k freerunners made, which is maybe of the order of 2 million dollar/euro. even then you can't compete with specs on mainstream phones. so you need someone willing to put up a lot of money to get going. hopefully the costs of hardware will continue to fall. opensource hardware is growing. if there are people working on designs, then all it takes is an investor and or benevolent, and it will be go again. it would be nice if someone could get an openphone foundation going to focus the effort. sam ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Brian bn...@rochester.rr.com writes: On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:55:21 +0200 Dr. Michael Lauer mic...@vanille-media.de wrote: Unfortunately the freedom loving people are doomed to either work on anti-vendor-ports (such as HTC devices etc.) or live with one of the semi-free alternatives (Palm Pre, Nokia N900). Right now there is no device rivaling the FreeRunner's openness, nothing comes close. I wouldn't necessarily color all ports of FOSS as anti-vendor. In fact don't they demonstrate the versatility and adaptability of FOSS in relation to all hardware, especially hardware that isn't open? That's a good thing if the goal is to strive towards choice for consumers. Granted it's not the ideal situation but it is a step in the right direction. The term anti-vendor port initially struck me as a little odd, as well, but now I think that Mickey is using a fairly strict definition of anti-, meaning contrary to--with anti-vendor meaning contrary to the vendor or (more clearly) contrary to the wishes or actions of the vendor. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
