Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide
Hi Michael, Just had a read through the guide.. you've covered the topics that I'd be after (toolchain, sample app build and install).. Looks good so far... Regards Neil Davey Michael Shiloh wrote: Since Steve dropped the hint that I've been working on a user guide of sorts for the Neo Freerunner, some of you have been asking me about it, so we've decided to push it to the website before it's really ready. The intended audience is a reasonably technical developer, but a newcomer to the community, one that doesn't have the background that most of you have. Furthermore, the guide is not intended to explain everything. It's just a way to get started. That's why I called it a quickstart guide. The guide does not describe how to use the current applications. I expect they will change a lot, and anyway, most people receiving these early samples are more interested in developing their projects based on the Freerunner, and are less interested in using the device as their daily phone. Finally, the web page is intentionally free of any decorations. At some point we will define a standard Openmoko appearance such as font, background color, etc., but for now it's just text. My normal tool for creating web pages is vi, and it shows, although I did try to use Open Office for this one. As you will see, I have a lot more to fill in, but I would welcome your feedback on what is already there, and suggestions for topics you think should be included. The quickstart guide can be found at http://quickstart.openmoko.org/ Sincerely, Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide
Thanks for the positive feedback, Neil. By the way, I'm going to add the discussion we had on USB charging, and more sample applications. Michael Neil Davey wrote: Hi Michael, Just had a read through the guide.. you've covered the topics that I'd be after (toolchain, sample app build and install).. Looks good so far... Regards Neil Davey Michael Shiloh wrote: Since Steve dropped the hint that I've been working on a user guide of sorts for the Neo Freerunner, some of you have been asking me about it, so we've decided to push it to the website before it's really ready. The intended audience is a reasonably technical developer, but a newcomer to the community, one that doesn't have the background that most of you have. Furthermore, the guide is not intended to explain everything. It's just a way to get started. That's why I called it a quickstart guide. The guide does not describe how to use the current applications. I expect they will change a lot, and anyway, most people receiving these early samples are more interested in developing their projects based on the Freerunner, and are less interested in using the device as their daily phone. Finally, the web page is intentionally free of any decorations. At some point we will define a standard Openmoko appearance such as font, background color, etc., but for now it's just text. My normal tool for creating web pages is vi, and it shows, although I did try to use Open Office for this one. As you will see, I have a lot more to fill in, but I would welcome your feedback on what is already there, and suggestions for topics you think should be included. The quickstart guide can be found at http://quickstart.openmoko.org/ Sincerely, Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide
On Saturday 19 April 2008 08:04, Michael Shiloh wrote: Since Steve dropped the hint that I've been working on a user guide of sorts for the Neo Freerunner, some of you have been asking me about it, so we've decided to push it to the website before it's really ready. Looking good. The first question I have though is with regard to the first diagram. I was under the impression that there was some technical reason that the Freerunner was a mono device. Your diagram shows left and right speakers. So is it left and right both acting as one or did something change and it's now stereo? Thanks -- Andy / ScaredyCat ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide
Andy Powell wrote: On Saturday 19 April 2008 08:04, Michael Shiloh wrote: Since Steve dropped the hint that I've been working on a user guide of sorts for the Neo Freerunner, some of you have been asking me about it, so we've decided to push it to the website before it's really ready. Looking good. The first question I have though is with regard to the first diagram. I was under the impression that there was some technical reason that the Freerunner was a mono device. Your diagram shows left and right speakers. So is it left and right both acting as one or did something change and it's now stereo? Third possibility: I made a mistake. My girlfriend drew those drawings a long time ago for GTA01 and I forgot to remove the second speaker for GTA02. Thanks for catching that! Michael Thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide
On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 09:04:49 +0200, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As you will see, I have a lot more to fill in, but I would welcome your feedback on what is already there, and suggestions for topics you think should be included. Chapter 4 describes installation of the SIM card, MicroSD card and the battery as if they were one task, while in fact it's three different ones. It's probably necessary to remove the battery to access the card holders; if so, it should be mentioned. Each of the SIM card and MicroSD card can be replaced without disturbing the other one, can't they? However, these clarifications and breaking down into three tasks is probably not worth the hassle, as the developers are going to figure it out anyway, and I hardly remember myself ever using a manual to replace the SIM card in any phone. The text mentins provided accessories several times. However, the next deliveries after the some number of the first ones may not include them. Chapter 7 should describe how to find out the current image versions and how to use dfu_util (or where to read about it). It should also tell what happens to the user data when the root filesystem is updated. Chapter 8 should describe how to build the toolchain yourself (how is the prebuilt one made?) in case you're not exactly on Intel/Linux. Putting stuff in /usr/local/openmoko is against FHS. If the package insists on installing everything in one directory, it should be /opt/openmoko. But this isn't a problem of this guide. Chapter 8 mentions downloading the package to /tmp (where you might not have write access because it's not mentioned in the prerequisites) and later unpacking them as if they were in ~/sources. -- Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide
Just wondering, everyone has asked about using GTA01's debug board with GTA02, what about the other way around? Cheers, Federico On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:43 AM, Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 09:04:49 +0200, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As you will see, I have a lot more to fill in, but I would welcome your feedback on what is already there, and suggestions for topics you think should be included. Chapter 4 describes installation of the SIM card, MicroSD card and the battery as if they were one task, while in fact it's three different ones. It's probably necessary to remove the battery to access the card holders; if so, it should be mentioned. Each of the SIM card and MicroSD card can be replaced without disturbing the other one, can't they? However, these clarifications and breaking down into three tasks is probably not worth the hassle, as the developers are going to figure it out anyway, and I hardly remember myself ever using a manual to replace the SIM card in any phone. The text mentins provided accessories several times. However, the next deliveries after the some number of the first ones may not include them. Chapter 7 should describe how to find out the current image versions and how to use dfu_util (or where to read about it). It should also tell what happens to the user data when the root filesystem is updated. Chapter 8 should describe how to build the toolchain yourself (how is the prebuilt one made?) in case you're not exactly on Intel/Linux. Putting stuff in /usr/local/openmoko is against FHS. If the package insists on installing everything in one directory, it should be /opt/openmoko. But this isn't a problem of this guide. Chapter 8 mentions downloading the package to /tmp (where you might not have write access because it's not mentioned in the prerequisites) and later unpacking them as if they were in ~/sources. -- Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide
Hi Alexey, I appreciate your input. Comments below: Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 09:04:49 +0200, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As you will see, I have a lot more to fill in, but I would welcome your feedback on what is already there, and suggestions for topics you think should be included. Chapter 4 describes installation of the SIM card, MicroSD card and the battery as if they were one task, while in fact it's three different ones. It's probably necessary to remove the battery to access the card holders; if so, it should be mentioned. Good point. I was assuming an out-of-the-box install, but it wouldn't hurt to make that explicit. Each of the SIM card and MicroSD card can be replaced without disturbing the other one, can't they? Nope, it's a LIFO stack. From the top it's battery, SIM, Micro SD. Gotta take it all out to get at the Micro SD. However, these clarifications and breaking down into three tasks is probably not worth the hassle, as the developers are going to figure it out anyway, and I hardly remember myself ever using a manual to replace the SIM card in any phone. That's because most phones don't have such complicated SIM card holders. Actually, here's my theory: Anyone who has NEVER had a GTA01 will figure out the SIM card holder. Anyone who has had a GTA01 will take awhile to get used to the fact that the card holder locks and unlocks in the opposite direction compared to GTA01. The text mentins provided accessories several times. However, the next deliveries after the some number of the first ones may not include them. Yeah, I'll have to update this once we decide what's in and what's not. Chapter 7 should describe how to find out the current image versions and how to use dfu_util (or where to read about it). It should also tell what happens to the user data when the root filesystem is updated. Yikes! That's a very important point. Thanks! Chapter 8 should describe how to build the toolchain yourself (how is the prebuilt one made?) in case you're not exactly on Intel/Linux. True, but I'm trying to keep it simple. Once I document everything else, perhaps I'll come back and tackle this. Putting stuff in /usr/local/openmoko is against FHS. If the package insists on installing everything in one directory, it should be /opt/openmoko. But this isn't a problem of this guide. Agreeed, and will probably change. Chapter 8 mentions downloading the package to /tmp (where you might not have write access because it's not mentioned in the prerequisites) The beauty of /tmp is that everyone is guaranteed to have write access. As I understand it, that's why it was created. and later unpacking them as if they were in ~/sources. That's a bug and I will fix it right away. Again, thanks for your excellent feedback Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide
On Sat, 19 Apr 2008, Michael Shiloh wrote: Actually, here's my theory: Anyone who has NEVER had a GTA01 will figure out the SIM card holder. Anyone who has had a GTA01 will take awhile to get used to the fact that the card holder locks and unlocks in the opposite direction compared to GTA01. Can it be that the diagram is also a GTA01 version as my GTA01 sim card holder works the way the diagram shows. clare ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide
Sorry I sent a mistaken comment about the direction of undoing the sim card. clare ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide
On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 5:02 AM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's because most phones don't have such complicated SIM card holders. Actually, here's my theory: Anyone who has NEVER had a GTA01 will figure out the SIM card holder. Anyone who has had a GTA01 will take awhile to get used to the fact that the card holder locks and unlocks in the opposite direction compared to GTA01. Ouch. Ok, I think this point might warrant a warning sticker or some such warning, because the holder is quite sensitive and small, and it would be easy to force it the wrong way, especially since the GTA01 goes in that other way. That said, I tend to carefully try both directions for the 01, so I might not have any problems with the 02. Chapter 7 should describe how to find out the current image versions and how to use dfu_util (or where to read about it). It should also tell what happens to the user data when the root filesystem is updated. Yikes! That's a very important point. Thanks! It should also make reference to versions for different operating systems, or at least a wiki page with links to some of the various tools. Chapter 8 should describe how to build the toolchain yourself (how is the prebuilt one made?) in case you're not exactly on Intel/Linux. True, but I'm trying to keep it simple. Once I document everything else, perhaps I'll come back and tackle this. I'd suggest this is a separate piece of documentation. Maybe an appendix, or simply separated by one blank page but with it's own table of contents. Quickstarting the phone should be one process, and we shouldn't assume hackers need a toolchain to start hacking. (I can write shell scripts w/o a toolchain, etc). I think it's a good idea to have this piece here, but I have a feeling that as a toy, people will get to the ready to use and then play with it a while, in any case. Thanks, Gerald. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide
Well, I suppose one could create videos of all the steps. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexey Feldgendler Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:43 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 09:04:49 +0200, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As you will see, I have a lot more to fill in, but I would welcome your feedback on what is already there, and suggestions for topics you think should be included. Chapter 4 describes installation of the SIM card, MicroSD card and the battery as if they were one task, while in fact it's three different ones. It's probably necessary to remove the battery to access the card holders; if so, it should be mentioned. Each of the SIM card and MicroSD card can be replaced without disturbing the other one, can't they? However, these clarifications and breaking down into three tasks is probably not worth the hassle, as the developers are going to figure it out anyway, and I hardly remember myself ever using a manual to replace the SIM card in any phone. The text mentins provided accessories several times. However, the next deliveries after the some number of the first ones may not include them. Chapter 7 should describe how to find out the current image versions and how to use dfu_util (or where to read about it). It should also tell what happens to the user data when the root filesystem is updated. Chapter 8 should describe how to build the toolchain yourself (how is the prebuilt one made?) in case you're not exactly on Intel/Linux. Putting stuff in /usr/local/openmoko is against FHS. If the package insists on installing everything in one directory, it should be /opt/openmoko. But this isn't a problem of this guide. Chapter 8 mentions downloading the package to /tmp (where you might not have write access because it's not mentioned in the prerequisites) and later unpacking them as if they were in ~/sources. -- Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide
My FR has two speaker holes, but I do recall the spec being mono. perhaps that was just on Bluetooth. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Powell Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:03 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide On Saturday 19 April 2008 08:04, Michael Shiloh wrote: Since Steve dropped the hint that I've been working on a user guide of sorts for the Neo Freerunner, some of you have been asking me about it, so we've decided to push it to the website before it's really ready. Looking good. The first question I have though is with regard to the first diagram. I was under the impression that there was some technical reason that the Freerunner was a mono device. Your diagram shows left and right speakers. So is it left and right both acting as one or did something change and it's now stereo? Thanks -- Andy / ScaredyCat ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide
steve wrote: My FR has two speaker holes, but I do recall the spec being mono. perhaps that was just on Bluetooth. Some time ago I heard that the device was mono, but with two speakers (pushing out the same sound). Is this wrong? -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide
Perhaps there are two (sets of) speaker holes, but only one of those holes have a speaker behind them. steve wrote: My FR has two speaker holes, but I do recall the spec being mono. perhaps that was just on Bluetooth. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Powell Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:03 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide On Saturday 19 April 2008 08:04, Michael Shiloh wrote: Since Steve dropped the hint that I've been working on a user guide of sorts for the Neo Freerunner, some of you have been asking me about it, so we've decided to push it to the website before it's really ready. Looking good. The first question I have though is with regard to the first diagram. I was under the impression that there was some technical reason that the Freerunner was a mono device. Your diagram shows left and right speakers. So is it left and right both acting as one or did something change and it's now stereo? Thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
