Re: New Oceans
On Jul 9, 2007, at 8:35 PM, Ben wrote: On 7/1/07, Ben [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/28/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For phase 1 the shipping costs might be a bit high. Perhaps something like US$40 for Australia. For phase 2 we're hoping to get more local distributors. My shipping options are US$81 or US$87 for Australia for the Neo Base and around US$117 for the Advanced - this seems a bit excessive, given the ~US$40 you mentioned earlier... Sorry about this. We are trying to find cheaper ways to get these to you. But I don't see any quick solution. -Sean___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
what about Hong Kong? shipping cost is about 75$, but I'm sure it's more closer to Taiwan than US ;) 2007/7/10, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Jul 9, 2007, at 8:35 PM, Ben wrote: On 7/1/07, Ben [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/28/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For phase 1 the shipping costs might be a bit high. Perhaps something like US$40 for Australia. For phase 2 we're hoping to get more local distributors. My shipping options are US$81 or US$87 for Australia for the Neo Base and around US$117 for the Advanced - this seems a bit excessive, given the ~US$40 you mentioned earlier... Sorry about this. We are trying to find cheaper ways to get these to you. But I don't see any quick solution. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Denis Kot denis?jabber.org.by ICQ: 13680126 Mobil: +375 29 6-1234-78 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
On 7/1/07, Ben [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/28/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For phase 1 the shipping costs might be a bit high. Perhaps something like US$40 for Australia. For phase 2 we're hoping to get more local distributors. My shipping options are US$81 or US$87 for Australia for the Neo Base and around US$117 for the Advanced - this seems a bit excessive, given the ~US$40 you mentioned earlier... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
Hi, On Monday 02 July 2007 20:17:55 Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: If FIC does manage to get Ingram Micro or some other large distributor to carry the Neo, I would expect to start to seeing a street price much closer $300. I would like to see the Neo Advanced closer to $300. I am not familiar with your marketing strategies, but if the above price can be met, I have a gut feeling that you can get a large market share amongst enthusiastic FOSS folks in India. It is quite unfortunate in India that even though we get access to embedded development boards at work, it is very expensive to buy one and ship it to India (import laws? shipping costs?). It is much cheaper to buy in the US, and hand-carry (no problems here, though). I hope Neo will be the One! SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
I calculated the costs for germany. Think the shipping will be at about USD 20. ($300+$20)/1.34*1.19 = € 285 1.34 is relation dollar-euro, 1.19 the 19% Import-VAT in germany. Mobile phones do not have taxes in the EU. 2007/7/2, Attila Csipa [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Starting July 9th, we will launch openmoko.com and start taking orders. There was talk about an European distributor. Will that be a coordinated effort and start taking orders on that day too ? Also, it would be good to get a confirmation on the Euro prices ( = USD+taxes/duties/shipping/etc) the end customers on the old continent will have. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
If I read the announcement of Sean correctly, * only the GTA1 device will be 300 US$ and will be shipped directly from Taiwan. * the GTA2 devices will have local distributors and will cost 450 US$. Secondly, a distributor has to handle warranty and marketing, answer phone calls, do repairing, has to run his ordering system, pay insurances and income taxes, and prepare for currency exchange rate fluctuations etc. This usually adds *** at least 10% ***. So I would not expect that the GTA2 device is available for less than: ($450 + $20) / 1.34 * 1.19 * 1.10 = 459 EUR Therefore I would even prepare for 499 EUR and we all can be happy if it is less and not more. Also consider: they have produced 1000 GTA1 devices and want to sell them at $300. This is 300 k $ revenue. Does this cover production cost? maybe. Does this cover development cost (I would expect that they have to pay salaries for at least 10 engineers plus Sean's travel expenses...): no. So, we simply should not expect the device to be the cheapest one we can get. And although we have for the first time the freedom to install our own software on the Neo devices for free, we (and our friends) have to purchase a lot of devices to finance the future hardware development! Don't expect that FIC (or anybody else) can and will subsidize the new company for years. So we should see any additional price tag as the price for openness and as a donation to keep the hardware development wheel spinning. Am 02.07.2007 um 09:16 schrieb Thomas Gstädtner: I calculated the costs for germany. Think the shipping will be at about USD 20. ($300+$20)/1.34*1.19 = € 285 1.34 is relation dollar-euro, 1.19 the 19% Import-VAT in germany. Mobile phones do not have taxes in the EU. 2007/7/2, Attila Csipa [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Starting July 9th, we will launch openmoko.com and start taking orders. There was talk about an European distributor. Will that be a coordinated effort and start taking orders on that day too ? Also, it would be good to get a confirmation on the Euro prices ( = USD+taxes/duties/shipping/ etc) the end customers on the old continent will have. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
On Monday 02 July 2007 10:16, you wrote: This usually adds *** at least 10% ***. Therefore I would even prepare for 499 EUR and we all can be happy if it is less and not more. Not sure how much of the named costs the distributor actually needs to do (I don't think he will have support on all european languages (or REAL direct non-mail support at all), local marketing is not really applicable to OpenMoko, warranty should be mostly handled by FIC, the distributor should have also some sort of discount, shipping is MUCH cheaper since it can be done in large, slow delivery batches). I don't expect people who really need voice tech support and such be using OpenMoko for quite some time. If the cost escalates to 500E or above I don't really see a point why have a distributor at all except for convenience of delivery time and possible duties legwork, ordering overseas makes much more sense in that case. will subsidize the new company for years. So we should see any additional price tag as the price for openness and as a donation to keep the hardware development wheel spinning. The question is why would that additional tag be so hefty on the distributor side ? If I want to donate and support somebody, I want that money to go to the OpenMoko team and not a logistics melting pot of the distributor - he can switch products and/or change brand allegiance in a day, OpenMoko cannot. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
I think you are right with the distributor-problematic. Maybe the devices will get cheaper when there's a bigger amount of orders. Imho €500 is very much money, but if I had to pay this for a free, not as in free beer, device - well, I had to pay it. ;) Also I think that distributors will get the devices cheaper, maybe at $400 or $350. So the chances to get the device for €450 or less on the free market are high. I heard people saying they'd never buy a FIC device, because it's a big bad company and they'd buy a device by HTC and try to get OpenMoko running. That's not my opinion - I'm glad and very thankful to FIC that they are the first who produce a phone as open as possible and support a completely opened sofwareplattform. The price for freedom was always high (whatever this price was, not only in money), and if I have to pay more money than usual (but don't forget, Nokia and HTC also want to have about 400 to 600 USD for their devices, the people just think the subsidized devices by mobile carriers are the normal price) and I'm willing to pay this price in money (we can be glad to get a bit freedom for money!) for the device I ever wanted. 2007/7/2, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller [EMAIL PROTECTED]: If I read the announcement of Sean correctly, * only the GTA1 device will be 300 US$ and will be shipped directly from Taiwan. * the GTA2 devices will have local distributors and will cost 450 US$. Secondly, a distributor has to handle warranty and marketing, answer phone calls, do repairing, has to run his ordering system, pay insurances and income taxes, and prepare for currency exchange rate fluctuations etc. This usually adds *** at least 10% ***. So I would not expect that the GTA2 device is available for less than: ($450 + $20) / 1.34 * 1.19 * 1.10 = 459 EUR Therefore I would even prepare for 499 EUR and we all can be happy if it is less and not more. Also consider: they have produced 1000 GTA1 devices and want to sell them at $300. This is 300 k $ revenue. Does this cover production cost? maybe. Does this cover development cost (I would expect that they have to pay salaries for at least 10 engineers plus Sean's travel expenses...): no. So, we simply should not expect the device to be the cheapest one we can get. And although we have for the first time the freedom to install our own software on the Neo devices for free, we (and our friends) have to purchase a lot of devices to finance the future hardware development! Don't expect that FIC (or anybody else) can and will subsidize the new company for years. So we should see any additional price tag as the price for openness and as a donation to keep the hardware development wheel spinning. Am 02.07.2007 um 09:16 schrieb Thomas Gstädtner: I calculated the costs for germany. Think the shipping will be at about USD 20. ($300+$20)/1.34*1.19 = € 285 1.34 is relation dollar-euro, 1.19 the 19% Import-VAT in germany. Mobile phones do not have taxes in the EU. 2007/7/2, Attila Csipa [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Starting July 9th, we will launch openmoko.com and start taking orders. There was talk about an European distributor. Will that be a coordinated effort and start taking orders on that day too ? Also, it would be good to get a confirmation on the Euro prices ( = USD+taxes/duties/shipping/ etc) the end customers on the old continent will have. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Re: New Oceans
How much bandwidth is needed? Do you have a system in place for selling the phone online? On Jul 1, 2007, at 12:14 AM, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: On Jun 30, 2007, at 5:05 AM, Ian Stirling wrote: Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: snip We've had a particularly challenging time trying to setup the online infrastructure and figure out how to ship these phones. Sometime later today or early tomorrow we're going to make another announcement asking for some advice. Leaping in before being asked, and perhaps not exactly what you're announcing. On store stock. I'd like to see the basic, advanced, but also accessories. Something like: Basic $300 Advanced $450 Debug Board $120 (inc lunchbox) Battery $20 Guitar Pick $5 Case (black/silver, front and back) $20 Replacement screen $120 Pouch - $15 I personally would also like to see Motherboard alone - $150 GPS antenna - $20 Internal subframe - $20 This is both for cases where you damage your neo in some manner that is clearly not covered by any warranty, and for the cases where you might like to use the Neo for something it is clearly not suited for in its existing case. For example, glue a couple of webcams a USB hub, wifi, into a waterproof container, and do stuff with it. We are planning on selling this kind of stuff, but I really don't think we'll have the bandwidth before phase 2. Or at least another two months. Thanks a lot for letting us know you're interested! -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Re: New Oceans
Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: On Jun 30, 2007, at 5:05 AM, Ian Stirling wrote: Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: snip We've had a particularly challenging time trying to setup the online infrastructure and figure out how to ship these phones. Sometime later today or early tomorrow we're going to make another announcement asking for some advice. Leaping in before being asked, and perhaps not exactly what you're announcing. On store stock. I'd like to see the basic, advanced, but also accessories. Something like: Basic $300 Advanced $450 Debug Board $120 (inc lunchbox) Battery $20 Guitar Pick $5 Case (black/silver, front and back) $20 Replacement screen $120 Pouch - $15 I personally would also like to see Motherboard alone - $150 GPS antenna - $20 Internal subframe - $20 This is both for cases where you damage your neo in some manner that is clearly not covered by any warranty, and for the cases where you might like to use the Neo for something it is clearly not suited for in its existing case. For example, glue a couple of webcams a USB hub, wifi, into a waterproof container, and do stuff with it. We are planning on selling this kind of stuff, but I really don't think we'll have the bandwidth before phase 2. Or at least another two months. Thanks a lot for letting us know you're interested! -Sean Sean, List, The announcement and developments are extremely exciting to me too. I haven't participated in this list much as I am trying to run and grow my own business, which isn't easy to do :-) I do however love opensource, maybe even more so open standards, and pretty much thank my career to the existance of opensource/standards. So I'm thinking to myself 'how can I earn some money with doing what I basically like most: writing opensource software'. Being the author of an opensource tool called 'Usertracking' I see some synergy with openmoko/ neo. My experience so far is that making money on opensource software is excruciatingly difficult. If it 'buys' you anything, it's a reference that you can show to a potential client or, much further down the line, something where you can become a consultant for. The only venture at this point that I can see from participating in the openmoko platform is that I could, for example, be selling phones to clients, perhaps even install my own custom made gadget on it to make the phone I sell 'unique' to my clients. I'm thinking for example an integration with Usertracking. Down the line, provinding services to Neo users would be a great want-to-have that could generate revenues. But, and here is the big problem with that idea, I live in the Netherlands and the cellphone market here is completely controlled by the big telco's. When you want a really cool phone, all you need to do is go to one of the telco resellers; they'll give you the phone for free as long as you get their phone plan for so many euros a month for 2 years or so. I'm guestimating that close to 99% of people get their phone this way and would NEVER even consider paying $350+ for their phone. It's kind of hard to compete with virtually 'free' phones. Is something similar to what I describe here the case in most countries? If so, what's the silver bullet to be able to sell Neo's in a marketplace like that? I'm inclined to think that FIC should be approaching these big telco's as resellers. This would be good for FIC as they could guarantee large sales #'s but it would not be good for developpers looking to make some profits on sales as well for obvious reasons. So after this long intro, a question for FIC employees in specific and the whole list in general: How, in your opinion, can participating in the openmoko project benefit developpers (financially or otherwise) ? Besides facilitating you as FIC employees with your own department and resources, will FIC facilitate independant developers in their endevours to make the Neo bigger than the iPhone (ok, wishfull thinking although I think the Neo *could* beat the iPhone hands down :)? Ofcourse there's no need to get really as specific as giving away company strategy and secrets, but it would be real interesting IMO to share some ideas and see if a large concern like FIC could help some (mostly small) companies grow their business and by doing so helping FIC grow their product. -- Fred Leeflang 3DN Tel. 06-46182773 / 036-5467838 Almere http://www.3dn.nl http://www.politicap.eu [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Re: New Oceans
On Sunday 01 July 2007 06:25:06 Justin Mazzi wrote: How much bandwidth is needed? Do you have a system in place for selling the phone online? I think he refers to company bandwidth (i.e. resources to organize sales etc), not internet bandwidth pgpLMc3pj7aax.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
Also I think that distributors will get the devices cheaper, maybe at $400 or $350. So the chances to get the device for 450 or less on the free market are high. My guess is that the only difference between the phase 1 and 2 pricing is the inclusion of the distributor's share in the phase 2 pricing. Distributors in these parts seem to get electronics around ~66% of list price. This is exactly the $300/$450 split one sees in the phase1/phase2 pricing. I don't think this is a coincidence. If FIC does manage to get Ingram Micro or some other large distributor to carry the Neo, I would expect to start to seeing a street price much closer $300. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ IPv6 on Fedora 7 http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/fedora/ipv6-tunnel.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
On Jul 1, 2007, at 1:25 AM, Pranav Desai wrote: On 6/30/07, Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 30 June 2007 18:39:27 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 to this unbundled approach. Also maybe add replacement touchscreen as this is probably #1 part most likely to get busted? Another vote for the unbundled approach. A number of us hardware types are discussing various gadgets that would hack into the neo for CPU and connectivity. A pity to waste a whole phone (and the $$s) if the case and screen is not needed. +1 for both. (I think I suggested that one months ago, already ;) Thats a great idea ! So if the boards are sold separately, then will it be possible to use the GTA02 board with the phone screen and case that we are getting in July. That would help someone like me who dont want to buy a complete new phone in October, but would certainly like the wifi in the GTAv02 board for much less than $450. hehe...well I didn't really think of it that way. But yes, that would be one possible upgrade plan. I don't think we plan on making changes to the tooling. That's _really_ expensive. So this should work. Let me double check on Monday. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
Sean sent his reply to me, since I first sent my comment to him just by accident, damn Gmail. Here is his response for you all to see: On Jun 28, 2007, at 9:47 PM, Ben wrote: On 6/28/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're going to sell the Neo Base for $300. The Neo Advanced will be $450. Will the debug kit etc. for GTA01B_v4 be compatible with GTA02? How about any future devices. GTA02 for sure. We're going to do our best to use the same for later devices. But I can't promise this now. I heard the GTA02 will have a better battery, but can the GTA01B_v4 battery be used with it at all? Sorry not the GTA01. Will there be an option to buy more batteries? - if so, ball park pricing? (within $50 or so). It turns out you can use aftermarket Nokia batteries. So this should be really cheap. Any idea on shipping costs, and warranty length/service center? ie. I'm in Australia, will I have to ship it back to Taiwan for repair or will there be any local service centers? For phase 1 the shipping costs might be a bit high. Perhaps something like US$40 for Australia. For phase 2 we're hoping to get more local distributors. We're still finalizing the warranty repair stuff. Look for an announcement before we start selling on July 9th. In our factory in China, 400 Neos are waiting for you all. Another 600 will be ready before next week. More are queued up waiting for us to say go. Given the total awesomeness and market changing potential, will you be doing anything to ensure that they aren't all snaffled up by one person to sell on eBay and/or melted down? --- Make more ;-) I want to buy an OpenMoko, to support the project, show off at the local Linux User Group and to play with to watch the development and give feedback, I'm not a coder. Will I be hindering the process to buy the v1 (as I'm not a developer and you don't have an infinite quantity), or is this type of buying encouraged? If you have a the stomach for upgrading your phone (manually) now, then no. ;-) lastly... I take the 1.5/1+ has been scrapped/merged with the 2? Merged. From delays ;-) Thank you sooo much. I've been checking back almost daily since I found out about this last year. Thanks for all your support! Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
Starting July 9th, we will launch openmoko.com and start taking orders. There was talk about an European distributor. Will that be a coordinated effort and start taking orders on that day too ? Also, it would be good to get a confirmation on the Euro prices ( = USD+taxes/duties/shipping/etc) the end customers on the old continent will have. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
On 6/30/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 1, 2007, at 1:25 AM, Pranav Desai wrote: On 6/30/07, Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 30 June 2007 18:39:27 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 to this unbundled approach. Also maybe add replacement touchscreen as this is probably #1 part most likely to get busted? Another vote for the unbundled approach. A number of us hardware types are discussing various gadgets that would hack into the neo for CPU and connectivity. A pity to waste a whole phone (and the $$s) if the case and screen is not needed. +1 for both. (I think I suggested that one months ago, already ;) Thats a great idea ! So if the boards are sold separately, then will it be possible to use the GTA02 board with the phone screen and case that we are getting in July. That would help someone like me who dont want to buy a complete new phone in October, but would certainly like the wifi in the GTAv02 board for much less than $450. hehe...well I didn't really think of it that way. But yes, that would be one possible upgrade plan. I don't think we plan on making changes to the tooling. That's _really_ expensive. So this should work. Let me double check on Monday. You just got to think outside the case !! ... :-)) I hope it works that way. Thanks -- Pranav -Sean -- -- http://pd.dnsalias.org ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
On Jun 29, 2007, at 7:51 AM, Clayton Jones wrote: I've been avidly scanning all posts and web sites for months and have been keeping quiet in order to keep chatter down and not clog people's in-boxes... But this is such great news i have to respond to encourage Sean, the OpenMoko and FIC teams for all their hard work and dedication to this concept and product! Since i have some experience with product development i know how hard and frustrating it can be - but keep up the good work! Many people are waiting and anxious to change the world with this project! My $450 is burning a hole in my pocket for my own Neo Advanced kit! Thanks so much for your strong support! -Sean___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
On Jun 29, 2007, at 8:10 AM, Myk Melez wrote: Congrats on the new company. It's great news, as is word that the phone will be available in a scant two weeks. Thanks! Presumably the software will be advancing rapidly between July 9 and October, when the GTA02 comes out. What's the process for tracking improvements over that time period? Will there be daily or weekly drops we can install onto our GTA01s, and will we need an Advanced configuration to track those changes, or will the Base configuration be sufficient? The Advanced only gives you more accessories and a nice case. The phone are the same in both. As for software updates, we will make this easier than it is now very soon. -Sean___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007, Ian Darwin wrote: I personally would also like to see Motherboard alone - $150 GPS antenna - $20 Internal subframe - $20 This is both for cases where you damage your neo in some manner that is clearly not covered by any warranty, and for the cases where you might like to use the Neo for something it is clearly not suited for in its existing case. For example, glue a couple of webcams a USB hub, wifi, into a waterproof container, and do stuff with it. +1 to this unbundled approach. Also maybe add replacement touchscreen as this is probably #1 part most likely to get busted? Another vote for the unbundled approach. A number of us hardware types are discussing various gadgets that would hack into the neo for CPU and connectivity. A pity to waste a whole phone (and the $$s) if the case and screen is not needed. Sean, how does this work from a certification point of view? Do you have to get the whole device certified? Can you sell the internal subframe by itself, with whatever certification is required? Is certification even an issue since that's all handled by the GSM/SIM interface which we have no visibility into? Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
On Jul 1, 2007, at 12:39 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 30 Jun 2007, Ian Darwin wrote: I personally would also like to see Motherboard alone - $150 GPS antenna - $20 Internal subframe - $20 This is both for cases where you damage your neo in some manner that is clearly not covered by any warranty, and for the cases where you might like to use the Neo for something it is clearly not suited for in its existing case. For example, glue a couple of webcams a USB hub, wifi, into a waterproof container, and do stuff with it. +1 to this unbundled approach. Also maybe add replacement touchscreen as this is probably #1 part most likely to get busted? Another vote for the unbundled approach. A number of us hardware types are discussing various gadgets that would hack into the neo for CPU and connectivity. A pity to waste a whole phone (and the $$s) if the case and screen is not needed. Sean, how does this work from a certification point of view? Do you have to get the whole device certified? Can you sell the internal subframe by itself, with whatever certification is required? Is certification even an issue since that's all handled by the GSM/SIM interface which we have no visibility into? I'm not 100% sure. Let me look into this on Monday. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
On Saturday 30 June 2007 18:39:27 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 to this unbundled approach. Also maybe add replacement touchscreen as this is probably #1 part most likely to get busted? Another vote for the unbundled approach. A number of us hardware types are discussing various gadgets that would hack into the neo for CPU and connectivity. A pity to waste a whole phone (and the $$s) if the case and screen is not needed. +1 for both. (I think I suggested that one months ago, already ;) pgp2NoiiMkAn7.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
On 6/30/07, Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 30 June 2007 18:39:27 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 to this unbundled approach. Also maybe add replacement touchscreen as this is probably #1 part most likely to get busted? Another vote for the unbundled approach. A number of us hardware types are discussing various gadgets that would hack into the neo for CPU and connectivity. A pity to waste a whole phone (and the $$s) if the case and screen is not needed. +1 for both. (I think I suggested that one months ago, already ;) Thats a great idea ! So if the boards are sold separately, then will it be possible to use the GTA02 board with the phone screen and case that we are getting in July. That would help someone like me who dont want to buy a complete new phone in October, but would certainly like the wifi in the GTAv02 board for much less than $450. -- Pranav ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- -- http://pd.dnsalias.org ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
On Jun 30, 2007, at 5:05 AM, Ian Stirling wrote: Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: snip We've had a particularly challenging time trying to setup the online infrastructure and figure out how to ship these phones. Sometime later today or early tomorrow we're going to make another announcement asking for some advice. Leaping in before being asked, and perhaps not exactly what you're announcing. On store stock. I'd like to see the basic, advanced, but also accessories. Something like: Basic $300 Advanced $450 Debug Board $120 (inc lunchbox) Battery $20 Guitar Pick $5 Case (black/silver, front and back) $20 Replacement screen $120 Pouch - $15 I personally would also like to see Motherboard alone - $150 GPS antenna - $20 Internal subframe - $20 This is both for cases where you damage your neo in some manner that is clearly not covered by any warranty, and for the cases where you might like to use the Neo for something it is clearly not suited for in its existing case. For example, glue a couple of webcams a USB hub, wifi, into a waterproof container, and do stuff with it. We are planning on selling this kind of stuff, but I really don't think we'll have the bandwidth before phase 2. Or at least another two months. Thanks a lot for letting us know you're interested! -Sean___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
Dear Sean Everyone @ OpenMoko, Congratulations to you all for the great progress. I also would like to throw in a slightly technical question: I plan to buy the Advanced version of the GTA01 to get the debug board. Will it be possible to use this same debug board with the GTA02, so one only has to buy the basic version of it, or will it have a different debug board or connector? Best Regards and congratulations again, Gergely On 6/27/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
Le jeudi 28 juin 2007 à 05:31 +0800, Sean Moss-Pultz a écrit : Dear Community, Andre Gide once said, Man cannot discover new oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore. [...] OK, straight right into the sea then captain. From what I understood of 2nd officer Harald, that leads us right to the east it seems (from my point of view at least)... Well, anyway, it seems we'll need a new application for Phase-1: a compass. (Might be a little more tricky than the calculator...;-) Rodolphe ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 20:04:36 +0200 Rodolphe Ortalo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Le jeudi 28 juin 2007 à 05:31 +0800, Sean Moss-Pultz a écrit : Dear Community, Andre Gide once said, Man cannot discover new oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore. [...] OK, straight right into the sea then captain. From what I understood of 2nd officer Harald, that leads us right to the east it seems (from my point of view at least)... Well, anyway, it seems we'll need a new application for Phase-1: a compass. (Might be a little more tricky than the calculator...;-) Rodolphe ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community GPS should help though ;) -- Ewan Marshall (ewanm89) Geek by nature, Linux by choice. signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: snip We've had a particularly challenging time trying to setup the online infrastructure and figure out how to ship these phones. Sometime later today or early tomorrow we're going to make another announcement asking for some advice. Leaping in before being asked, and perhaps not exactly what you're announcing. On store stock. I'd like to see the basic, advanced, but also accessories. Something like: Basic $300 Advanced $450 Debug Board $120 (inc lunchbox) Battery $20 Guitar Pick $5 Case (black/silver, front and back) $20 Replacement screen $120 Pouch - $15 I personally would also like to see Motherboard alone - $150 GPS antenna - $20 Internal subframe - $20 This is both for cases where you damage your neo in some manner that is clearly not covered by any warranty, and for the cases where you might like to use the Neo for something it is clearly not suited for in its existing case. For example, glue a couple of webcams a USB hub, wifi, into a waterproof container, and do stuff with it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 22:05:21 +0100 Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: snip We've had a particularly challenging time trying to setup the online infrastructure and figure out how to ship these phones. Sometime later today or early tomorrow we're going to make another announcement asking for some advice. Leaping in before being asked, and perhaps not exactly what you're announcing. On store stock. I'd like to see the basic, advanced, but also accessories. Something like: Basic $300 Advanced $450 Debug Board $120 (inc lunchbox) Battery $20 Guitar Pick $5 Case (black/silver, front and back) $20 Replacement screen $120 Pouch - $15 I personally would also like to see Motherboard alone - $150 GPS antenna - $20 Internal subframe - $20 This is both for cases where you damage your neo in some manner that is clearly not covered by any warranty, and for the cases where you might like to use the Neo for something it is clearly not suited for in its existing case. For example, glue a couple of webcams a USB hub, wifi, into a waterproof container, and do stuff with it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Agreed, it would be good for hardware hacking. -- Ewan Marshall (ewanm89) Geek by nature, Linux by choice. signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
On Jun 28, 2007, at 4:57 PM, Jeff Andros wrote: Anyways, that news (openmoko.com) was really worth the wait. Despite some of the grumblers on the list, there are plenty of us who understand how development goes, and how Mr. Murphy always seems to be doing backflips through your project. Thanks for all your hard work And thank you for such great support! Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
I'd also like to say thank you! Thank you for all the hard work you've done. I'm really looking forward getting my first open phone soon. Regards, Denis ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
First of all congratulations to the FIC team. Can someone enlighten us about which configuration (base/advanced) should one order? What is the use of the debug board? What cannot I do without it? Shall I be able to use it with GTA02 and later versions? Thanks, Emre On 6/28/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Starting July 9th, we will launch openmoko.com and start taking orders. We're going to have two configurations: Neo Base -- everything the mobile application developer needs to enjoy the benefits of the first freed phone, the Neo 1973: * Neo 1973 (GTA01B_v4) * Battery * Stylus * Headset * AC Charger * Phone Pouch * Lanyard * SanDisk 512MB MicroSD Card (2x) * Micro USB Connectivity Cable Neo Advanced -- everything the mobile device hacker wants to get down and dirty with the first freed phone, the Neo 1973: * Neo 1973 (GTA01B_v4) * Battery (2x) * Stylus * Headset * AC Charger * Phone Pouch * Lanyard * SanDisk 512MB MicroSD Card (2x) * Mini USB Connectivity Cable (2x) * USB Host Mode Cable * Debug Flex Cable * Debug Board v2 (JTAG and serial console) * Ruggedized Toolbox with shoulder strap * Guitar Pick (for opening case) * Torx T6 screwdriver The delays have been expensive for us and annoying for you. We've decided that instead of setting up a complicated return or tracking system to remember who gets a discount for GTA02, we going to give you _all_ a discount on GTA01. We're going to sell the Neo Base for $300. The Neo Advanced will be $450. GTA02 (AKA: The Mass Market Neo 1973) is on schedule to go on sale in October. It will have the following new hardware components: * 802.11 b/g WiFi * Samsung 2442 SoC * SMedia 3362 Graphics Accelerator * 2 3D Accelerometers * 256MB Flash We will sell this device through multiple channels. Direct from openmoko.com, the price will be $450 for the Neo Base and $600 for Neo Advanced. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
On 6/27/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Community, snip Starting July 9th, we will launch openmoko.com and start taking orders. We're going to have two configurations: Wouldn't you know it... just as I broke down and installed the emulator (I really wanted to wait for hardware) Ain't that how it always goes? Maybe I should have installed earlier? Anyways, that news (openmoko.com) was really worth the wait. Despite some of the grumblers on the list, there are plenty of us who understand how development goes, and how Mr. Murphy always seems to be doing backflips through your project. Thanks for all your hard work -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
On 6/28/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're going to sell the Neo Base for $300. The Neo Advanced will be $450. Will the debug kit etc. for GTA01B_v4 be compatible with GTA02? How about any future devices. I heard the GTA02 will have a better battery, but can the GTA01B_v4 battery be used with it at all? Will there be an option to buy more batteries? - if so, ball park pricing? (within $50 or so). Any idea on shipping costs, and warranty length/service center? ie. I'm in Australia, will I have to ship it back to Taiwan for repair or will there be any local service centers? In our factory in China, 400 Neos are waiting for you all. Another 600 will be ready before next week. More are queued up waiting for us to say go. Given the total awesomeness and market changing potential, will you be doing anything to ensure that they aren't all snaffled up by one person to sell on eBay and/or melted down? --- I want to buy an OpenMoko, to support the project, show off at the local Linux User Group and to play with to watch the development and give feedback, I'm not a coder. Will I be hindering the process to buy the v1 (as I'm not a developer and you don't have an infinite quantity), or is this type of buying encouraged? lastly... I take the 1.5/1+ has been scrapped/merged with the 2? Thank you sooo much. I've been checking back almost daily since I found out about this last year. Ben ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
750$ minus what I get for the first one used... (If I can bring myself to selling it...) That's less than a third of the iPhone! B) It'll be a great ride. Just like in the old Tapwave Zodiac times... (Anyone else made it over from there to here?) Ortwin On 6/27/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Community, Andre Gide once said, Man cannot discover new oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore. Sexism aside, I can't think of a better way to describe our adventures this past year. Around the end of March, we were three months behind schedule. Critical hardware bugs were being discovered almost weekly. I had just returned from an exhausting trip around the world. Harald landed in Taiwan the following week. One look at his face and I knew he was in basically the same depleted state I was in. But, we were both dedicated to keep pushing forward. We've come to realize, largely because of your support, that failure is not an option for this project. For the people pushing this project, an open phone is not really even a product. It's the very embodiment of our vision of technology. We absolutely, passionately, believe that something as fundamental to our lives as the mobile phone must be open. OpenMoko has become far bigger than just a small group of people trying to build an open mobile platform. I can tell you for sure, things will never be the same again inside FIC. To their credit, whole departments and divisions have been reorganized to maximize the opportunity for OpenMoko. This is the reason for my absence from this list for so long. The people inside FIC are amazingly open-minded. Our CEO and Chairman are the two greatest supporters inside this company. Earlier this month they did something courageous and support of the communities commitment. The entire mobile communications division was restructured to build devices for OpenMoko. And OpenMoko -- the project will officially become OpenMoko -- the company. This is how much they believe in us. This is how much faith they have that we will be successful. What does all this mean to us as a company and community? In one word: focus. We now have full control over the future of OpenMoko and the resources needed to give it every possible chance of succeeding. Behind us (well actually still in the same building :-) sits an supportive 800 pound gorilla in the OEM/ODM world, eagerly waiting to work with us to make our dreams a reality. OpenMoko -- together with all of you in the community -- will design, from the ground up, open devices and write the free software platform that powers them. FIC will build the hardware and help us set phones free around the world. This is about the most perfect relationship we can think of. Sure there will be rough times ahead. If it were easy, you know who would have done this long before. Making new things is never easy. But we're in this together. This project has changed me, changed you, and changed FIC. Hopefully, one day, this project will change the world. Now that OpenMoko is officially a company inside the FIC Group, blueprints of our office modifications cover the desk and walls where I'm sitting. Writing this letter to you all is finally giving me time to reflect on this thrilling roller coaster ride. Sorry for putting so many bits into your inbox. But I just can't help it. It's been months that we could hardly step back and see things from a big picture. Now, I really don't think I've been this excited since the day I got my first set of Lincoln Logs. For those of us that love to build new things, Taiwan, especially now at FIC and OpenMoko, is a great place to be. So here's the point of this email, finally after more than one year, we're entering into a new ocean. In our factory in China, 400 Neos are waiting for you all. Another 600 will be ready before next week. More are queued up waiting for us to say go. We've had a particularly challenging time trying to setup the online infrastructure and figure out how to ship these phones. Sometime later today or early tomorrow we're going to make another announcement asking for some advice. (Here come the details.) Starting July 9th, we will launch openmoko.com and start taking orders. We're going to have two configurations: Neo Base -- everything the mobile application developer needs to enjoy the benefits of the first freed phone, the Neo 1973: * Neo 1973 (GTA01B_v4) * Battery * Stylus * Headset * AC Charger * Phone Pouch * Lanyard * SanDisk 512MB MicroSD Card (2x) * Micro USB Connectivity Cable Neo Advanced -- everything the mobile device hacker wants to get down and dirty with the first freed phone, the Neo 1973: * Neo 1973 (GTA01B_v4) * Battery (2x) * Stylus * Headset * AC Charger * Phone Pouch * Lanyard * SanDisk 512MB MicroSD Card (2x) * Mini USB Connectivity Cable (2x) * USB Host Mode Cable * Debug Flex Cable * Debug Board v2 (JTAG and serial console) * Ruggedized Toolbox with shoulder strap * Guitar Pick (for
Re: New Oceans
Emre Turkay wrote: First of all congratulations to the FIC team. Can someone enlighten us about which configuration (base/advanced) should one order? What is the use of the debug board? What cannot I do without it? Shall I be able to use it with GTA02 and later versions? Basically the only case where you should need the debug board is if you manage to brick the device - and need to re-flash u-boot. It will presumably be possible to send it off to someone for this - even if not connected by FIC. U-boot is basically akin to the BIOS in a PC. Normal users, or even kernel developers should never need to update it more than once or maybe twice. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:10:11 +0530 Sudharshan S [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fantastic news, Thank you sean for the long announcement, I tell ya for all the wait, it was worth it. Now am gonna take a large printout of the announcement and paste it outside my room to inspire my parents to increase my allowance. :P Onto World domination! Regards Sudharshan S ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I should try that to see if they will let me order one ;) Luckily money isn't a problem as I have been saving for sometime now. -- Ewan Marshall (ewanm89) Geek by nature, Linux by choice. signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
Do you plan to sell the advanced part even separately? I mean could i buy the base version and buy the advanced extras later? roberto previdi - Original Message From: Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community community@lists.openmoko.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 3:20:13 AM Subject: New Oceans Dear Community, [...] No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
Fantastic News! I've been avidly scanning all posts and web sites for months and have been keeping quiet in order to keep chatter down and not clog people's in-boxes... But this is such great news i have to respond to encourage Sean, the OpenMoko and FIC teams for all their hard work and dedication to this concept and product! Since i have some experience with product development i know how hard and frustrating it can be - but keep up the good work! Many people are waiting and anxious to change the world with this project! My $450 is burning a hole in my pocket for my own Neo Advanced kit! Thanks again, clayton ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Starting July 9th, we will launch openmoko.com and start taking orders. We're going to have two configurations: Neo Base -- everything the mobile application developer needs to enjoy the benefits of the first freed phone, the Neo 1973: ... Neo Advanced -- everything the mobile device hacker wants to get down and dirty with the first freed phone, the Neo 1973: Hi Sean, Congrats on the new company. It's great news, as is word that the phone will be available in a scant two weeks. Presumably the software will be advancing rapidly between July 9 and October, when the GTA02 comes out. What's the process for tracking improvements over that time period? Will there be daily or weekly drops we can install onto our GTA01s, and will we need an Advanced configuration to track those changes, or will the Base configuration be sufficient? -myk ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
Outstanding news. Thanks again to you and the rest of the team for your vision, judgement, and determination. Full speed ahead into the new waters! :-) Mark C. On Thu, Jun 28, 2007 at 09:20:13AM +0800, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Dear Community, Andre Gide once said, Man cannot discover new oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore. Sexism aside, I can't think of a better way to describe our adventures this past year. Around the end of March, we were three months behind schedule. Critical hardware bugs were being discovered almost weekly. I had just returned from an exhausting trip around the world. Harald landed in Taiwan the following week. One look at his face and I knew he was in basically the same depleted state I was in. But, we were both dedicated to keep pushing forward. We've come to realize, largely because of your support, that failure is not an option for this project. For the people pushing this project, an open phone is not really even a product. It's the very embodiment of our vision of technology. We absolutely, passionately, believe that something as fundamental to our lives as the mobile phone must be open. OpenMoko has become far bigger than just a small group of people trying to build an open mobile platform. I can tell you for sure, things will never be the same again inside FIC. To their credit, whole departments and divisions have been reorganized to maximize the opportunity for OpenMoko. This is the reason for my absence from this list for so long. The people inside FIC are amazingly open-minded. Our CEO and Chairman are the two greatest supporters inside this company. Earlier this month they did something courageous and support of the communities commitment. The entire mobile communications division was restructured to build devices for OpenMoko. And OpenMoko -- the project will officially become OpenMoko -- the company. This is how much they believe in us. This is how much faith they have that we will be successful. What does all this mean to us as a company and community? In one word: focus. We now have full control over the future of OpenMoko and the resources needed to give it every possible chance of succeeding. Behind us (well actually still in the same building :-) sits an supportive 800 pound gorilla in the OEM/ODM world, eagerly waiting to work with us to make our dreams a reality. OpenMoko -- together with all of you in the community -- will design, from the ground up, open devices and write the free software platform that powers them. FIC will build the hardware and help us set phones free around the world. This is about the most perfect relationship we can think of. Sure there will be rough times ahead. If it were easy, you know who would have done this long before. Making new things is never easy. But we're in this together. This project has changed me, changed you, and changed FIC. Hopefully, one day, this project will change the world. Now that OpenMoko is officially a company inside the FIC Group, blueprints of our office modifications cover the desk and walls where I'm sitting. Writing this letter to you all is finally giving me time to reflect on this thrilling roller coaster ride. Sorry for putting so many bits into your inbox. But I just can't help it. It's been months that we could hardly step back and see things from a big picture. Now, I really don't think I've been this excited since the day I got my first set of Lincoln Logs. For those of us that love to build new things, Taiwan, especially now at FIC and OpenMoko, is a great place to be. So here's the point of this email, finally after more than one year, we're entering into a new ocean. In our factory in China, 400 Neos are waiting for you all. Another 600 will be ready before next week. More are queued up waiting for us to say go. We've had a particularly challenging time trying to setup the online infrastructure and figure out how to ship these phones. Sometime later today or early tomorrow we're going to make another announcement asking for some advice. (Here come the details.) Starting July 9th, we will launch openmoko.com and start taking orders. We're going to have two configurations: Neo Base -- everything the mobile application developer needs to enjoy the benefits of the first freed phone, the Neo 1973: * Neo 1973 (GTA01B_v4) * Battery * Stylus * Headset * AC Charger * Phone Pouch * Lanyard * SanDisk 512MB MicroSD Card (2x) * Micro USB Connectivity Cable Neo Advanced -- everything the mobile device hacker wants to get down and dirty with the first freed phone, the Neo 1973: * Neo 1973 (GTA01B_v4) * Battery (2x) * Stylus * Headset * AC Charger * Phone Pouch * Lanyard * SanDisk 512MB MicroSD Card (2x) * Mini USB Connectivity Cable (2x) * USB Host Mode Cable * Debug Flex Cable * Debug Board v2 (JTAG and serial console) *
Re: New Oceans
Fantastic news, Thank you sean for the long announcement, I tell ya for all the wait, it was worth it. Now am gonna take a large printout of the announcement and paste it outside my room to inspire my parents to increase my allowance. :P Onto World domination! Regards Sudharshan S ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
