Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
I would of thought in the EU you'd need a supplier who is big enough to bring over GTA02s by the container-load, not in 10s. Its the only way to keep the price down everywhere else. Jon steve wrote: Thanks Sean, Let me just give the community an overview of what we want to do with sales, distributors, and partners moving forward. First and foremost we want to keep sales and marketing in Openmoko as LEAN as humanly possible so we put maximum effort into engineering. So, in the same way the engineering departments rely on the community of developers, sales and marketing will rely on a community of resellers. I could build a big sales and marketing organization. I refuse to do this. I don't think it serves Openmoko or the community. I would rather have people in the community support the brand, build the brand, extend the sales channel and make some money for their effort and risk. For me it's simple: Hire a guy or empower the community? I choose the latter. So, we are working toward a system of discounts for people who buy say 10 phones or 50 phones, and we are trying to create an opportunity for them so they can make money on their belief: their belief that FreeRunner will be a great product. Sean and I think that this belief should be rewarded and encouraged. So, we will do this. Buying 10 phones, for example, will be as easy as buying 1 phone. And there will be a discount. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sean Moss-Pultz Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:09 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner published? ramsesoriginal wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christian Beier ha scritto: Am Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:48:10 +0100 schrieb Carlo E. Prelz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What we Europeans would need is a FIC subsidiary somewhere here, As I read FIC has some branch in Czech or Slovakia. Thing is: If you ship a container €70 is definitely not the price per device. You can help: motivate enough penguin people to buy a new phone and maybe some one will risk such order. If FIC could ship them to Czech (or Slovakia) with their in house post it might be easier to get a good price. Let's hope. Christian This is what i'd like to do with my LUG and some other people near me, take the name, make only one order of 10 Neos and then give the phones to the people. Obviously the price will not be lowered a lot, but the shipping costs are usually divided so in total it will cost less to everyone. We always do the same with thinkgeek things or some CDs or DVDs. Just my 0.2€cent :D Pietro The same also holds true if (and here comes the crazy part: correct me if it's illegal) someone want's to buy a bunch of Freerunners (let's say 10), customize them (with custom themes, programs, settings, maybe even pre-filled data, some additional hardware, case mods, and much more), and resell them, either to privates that want given features, or to firms as a working phone, or for some specific application (for example skiers, with custom software and theme). Doing so would also allow to grow a family of hacks around the openmoko (a version with a webcam? with build-in batteries? with r/c sender incorporated? with wooden case?). Just my two €-cents There is nothing crazy about this idea. In fact, this is exactly what we're planning for ;-) Details will come later from Steve or Harry. Sean ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
Jonathan Spooner wrote: I would of thought in the EU you'd need a supplier who is big enough to bring over GTA02s by the container-load, not in 10s. Its the only way to keep the price down everywhere else. We will have our own hub in the EU. Neos will move directly from our factory to that hub. Sean Jon steve wrote: Thanks Sean, Let me just give the community an overview of what we want to do with sales, distributors, and partners moving forward. First and foremost we want to keep sales and marketing in Openmoko as LEAN as humanly possible so we put maximum effort into engineering. So, in the same way the engineering departments rely on the community of developers, sales and marketing will rely on a community of resellers. I could build a big sales and marketing organization. I refuse to do this. I don't think it serves Openmoko or the community. I would rather have people in the community support the brand, build the brand, extend the sales channel and make some money for their effort and risk. For me it's simple: Hire a guy or empower the community? I choose the latter. So, we are working toward a system of discounts for people who buy say 10 phones or 50 phones, and we are trying to create an opportunity for them so they can make money on their belief: their belief that FreeRunner will be a great product. Sean and I think that this belief should be rewarded and encouraged. So, we will do this. Buying 10 phones, for example, will be as easy as buying 1 phone. And there will be a discount. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sean Moss-Pultz Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:09 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner published? ramsesoriginal wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christian Beier ha scritto: Am Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:48:10 +0100 schrieb Carlo E. Prelz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What we Europeans would need is a FIC subsidiary somewhere here, As I read FIC has some branch in Czech or Slovakia. Thing is: If you ship a container €70 is definitely not the price per device. You can help: motivate enough penguin people to buy a new phone and maybe some one will risk such order. If FIC could ship them to Czech (or Slovakia) with their in house post it might be easier to get a good price. Let's hope. Christian This is what i'd like to do with my LUG and some other people near me, take the name, make only one order of 10 Neos and then give the phones to the people. Obviously the price will not be lowered a lot, but the shipping costs are usually divided so in total it will cost less to everyone. We always do the same with thinkgeek things or some CDs or DVDs. Just my 0.2€cent :D Pietro The same also holds true if (and here comes the crazy part: correct me if it's illegal) someone want's to buy a bunch of Freerunners (let's say 10), customize them (with custom themes, programs, settings, maybe even pre-filled data, some additional hardware, case mods, and much more), and resell them, either to privates that want given features, or to firms as a working phone, or for some specific application (for example skiers, with custom software and theme). Doing so would also allow to grow a family of hacks around the openmoko (a version with a webcam? with build-in batteries? with r/c sender incorporated? with wooden case?). Just my two €-cents There is nothing crazy about this idea. In fact, this is exactly what we're planning for ;-) Details will come later from Steve or Harry. Sean ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jonathan Spooner wrote: I would of thought in the EU you'd need a supplier who is big enough to bring over GTA02s by the container-load, not in 10s. Its the only way to keep the price down everywhere else. We will have our own hub in the EU. Neos will move directly from our factory to that hub. Sean This is great news, Sean! I think there is not much more I could wish for. Good luck with the final testing!!! (crossing my fingers here) -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: Andy Powell wrote: TRIsoft 399$ would make 257 EUR TRIsoft Shipping from China / Taiwan / US appr. $70 to Europe TRIsoft is $469, makes 302 EUR TRIsoft plus 19% VAT is 360 EUR for a self import at the actual price. Well, I don't think that a seller buys the shipping of each phone $70... Maybe they'll pay that for 10 phones... Am I wrong?! So there you have it. I still have an issue with the shipping, I see no reason why European customers should effectively pay for shipping twice. Let's hope that companies like TRIsoft get their shipment direct from China rather than having to reship from the USA. I hope there will be something like this...! Someone in the US could make a modest profit here! aka buy the units and sell em on ebay tell you somthing for nothing, I bet they'd be a lot cheaper than 400 euro! Jon ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Price of the Freerunner published?
Thanks Sean, Let me just give the community an overview of what we want to do with sales, distributors, and partners moving forward. First and foremost we want to keep sales and marketing in Openmoko as LEAN as humanly possible so we put maximum effort into engineering. So, in the same way the engineering departments rely on the community of developers, sales and marketing will rely on a community of resellers. I could build a big sales and marketing organization. I refuse to do this. I don't think it serves Openmoko or the community. I would rather have people in the community support the brand, build the brand, extend the sales channel and make some money for their effort and risk. For me it's simple: Hire a guy or empower the community? I choose the latter. So, we are working toward a system of discounts for people who buy say 10 phones or 50 phones, and we are trying to create an opportunity for them so they can make money on their belief: their belief that FreeRunner will be a great product. Sean and I think that this belief should be rewarded and encouraged. So, we will do this. Buying 10 phones, for example, will be as easy as buying 1 phone. And there will be a discount. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sean Moss-Pultz Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:09 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner published? ramsesoriginal wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christian Beier ha scritto: Am Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:48:10 +0100 schrieb Carlo E. Prelz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What we Europeans would need is a FIC subsidiary somewhere here, As I read FIC has some branch in Czech or Slovakia. Thing is: If you ship a container €70 is definitely not the price per device. You can help: motivate enough penguin people to buy a new phone and maybe some one will risk such order. If FIC could ship them to Czech (or Slovakia) with their in house post it might be easier to get a good price. Let's hope. Christian This is what i'd like to do with my LUG and some other people near me, take the name, make only one order of 10 Neos and then give the phones to the people. Obviously the price will not be lowered a lot, but the shipping costs are usually divided so in total it will cost less to everyone. We always do the same with thinkgeek things or some CDs or DVDs. Just my 0.2€cent :D Pietro The same also holds true if (and here comes the crazy part: correct me if it's illegal) someone want's to buy a bunch of Freerunners (let's say 10), customize them (with custom themes, programs, settings, maybe even pre-filled data, some additional hardware, case mods, and much more), and resell them, either to privates that want given features, or to firms as a working phone, or for some specific application (for example skiers, with custom software and theme). Doing so would also allow to grow a family of hacks around the openmoko (a version with a webcam? with build-in batteries? with r/c sender incorporated? with wooden case?). Just my two €-cents There is nothing crazy about this idea. In fact, this is exactly what we're planning for ;-) Details will come later from Steve or Harry. Sean ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
Having lived in the US and Europe... 1) We usually do pay shipping from China. It's usually built into the cost of the product so it's hard to say exactly what it is. I would guess less than $10 a unit. 2) We do not have VAT in the US. Closest thing we have to it is sales tax. Most states have a sales tax rate of about 7 to 8 % (not 19) while some states like Oregon have no sales tax. Sales tax is ONLY charged when the product is sold to the consumer, not every time it changes hands getting to market. Also, if you are a resident of one state and purchase via mail (post) and have it shipped to your state and the reseller has no offices in your state, you do not have to pay your state's or the reseller's state sales tax. So I live in Las Vegas, Nevada, if I buy the Freerunner via post from a reseller in Arizona and that reseller does not have an office/store in Nevada, I pay no sales tax... just shipping (which sometimes can be more than tax.) 3) The only state I know of that has state mandated recycling/environmental fees is California. The fee is usually assessed on items that have a battery or could be hazardous if disposed of incorrectly (LCD monitors and TV's for example.) 6) I believe that for a product to be sold in the US, the manufacturer must meet certain warranty requirements. I haven't dealt with this in over 10 years but my memory tells me that the only cost a reseller is obligated to incur is for shipping products back to the manufacturer for service. I'm sure that may vary by state and that laws have more than likely changed in the last 10 years. Hope that helps. Lowell On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Vincent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 6:40 PM, thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since nobody seems to realize it, I guess I have to explain this. 1. Even the distributor has to pay shipping 2. 19% VAT in germany 3. x% additional fees (recycling, ...) in germany/europe 4. 2 years warranty in germany 5. The dollar-euro change will not always remain nearby 1.60$/1€ 6. People who handle the shipping and warranty in germany, do you think they can work for free? Don't get me wrong, I also like to get products cheap and not too expensive, but nobody can really expect to get the device for 285 euro from a resaler - you have to pay the 19% even if you import by yourself (the 19% are also on the shipping fees). Regarding points 1, 2, 3 and 6 - doesn't the US have something similar? Regarding 5 - shouldn't the prices be according to current exchange rates? Isn't that the whole point of exchange rates? -- Vincent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christian Beier ha scritto: Am Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:48:10 +0100 schrieb Carlo E. Prelz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What we Europeans would need is a FIC subsidiary somewhere here, As I read FIC has some branch in Czech or Slovakia. Thing is: If you ship a container €70 is definitely not the price per device. You can help: motivate enough penguin people to buy a new phone and maybe some one will risk such order. If FIC could ship them to Czech (or Slovakia) with their in house post it might be easier to get a good price. Let's hope. Christian This is what i'd like to do with my LUG and some other people near me, take the name, make only one order of 10 Neos and then give the phones to the people. Obviously the price will not be lowered a lot, but the shipping costs are usually divided so in total it will cost less to everyone. We always do the same with thinkgeek things or some CDs or DVDs. Just my 0.2€cent :D Pietro The same also holds true if (and here comes the crazy part: correct me if it's illegal) someone want's to buy a bunch of Freerunners (let's say 10), customize them (with custom themes, programs, settings, maybe even pre-filled data, some additional hardware, case mods, and much more), and resell them, either to privates that want given features, or to firms as a working phone, or for some specific application (for example skiers, with custom software and theme). Doing so would also allow to grow a family of hacks around the openmoko (a version with a webcam? with build-in batteries? with r/c sender incorporated? with wooden case?). Just my two €-cents -- My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
On Thursday 20 March 2008 16:05, Stroller wrote: snip But we must remember that an importer has to tie his own money up in stock (money that could otherwise be earning interest for him) and gamble with the currency exchange rates. If he buys when the dollar is at 1:X and the exchange rate changes disfavourably to 1:Y, then he has to swallow the difference on all his existing stock. snip Actually the best way to handle that is to buy currency at a fixed, guaranteed price. ukforex (no affiliaton) do this sort of thing. I don;t understand why more people don't do it. If you're importing stuff on a regular basis it just makes sense.. Andy ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
ramsesoriginal wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christian Beier ha scritto: Am Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:48:10 +0100 schrieb Carlo E. Prelz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What we Europeans would need is a FIC subsidiary somewhere here, As I read FIC has some branch in Czech or Slovakia. Thing is: If you ship a container €70 is definitely not the price per device. You can help: motivate enough penguin people to buy a new phone and maybe some one will risk such order. If FIC could ship them to Czech (or Slovakia) with their in house post it might be easier to get a good price. Let's hope. Christian This is what i'd like to do with my LUG and some other people near me, take the name, make only one order of 10 Neos and then give the phones to the people. Obviously the price will not be lowered a lot, but the shipping costs are usually divided so in total it will cost less to everyone. We always do the same with thinkgeek things or some CDs or DVDs. Just my 0.2€cent :D Pietro The same also holds true if (and here comes the crazy part: correct me if it's illegal) someone want's to buy a bunch of Freerunners (let's say 10), customize them (with custom themes, programs, settings, maybe even pre-filled data, some additional hardware, case mods, and much more), and resell them, either to privates that want given features, or to firms as a working phone, or for some specific application (for example skiers, with custom software and theme). Doing so would also allow to grow a family of hacks around the openmoko (a version with a webcam? with build-in batteries? with r/c sender incorporated? with wooden case?). Just my two €-cents There is nothing crazy about this idea. In fact, this is exactly what we're planning for ;-) Details will come later from Steve or Harry. Sean ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
ramsesoriginal ha scritto: The same also holds true if (and here comes the crazy part: correct me if it's illegal) someone want's to buy a bunch of Freerunners (let's say 10), customize them (with custom themes, programs, settings, maybe even pre-filled data, some additional hardware, case mods, and much more), and resell them, either to privates that want given features, or to firms as a working phone, or for some specific application (for example skiers, with custom software and theme). Doing so would also allow to grow a family of hacks around the openmoko (a version with a webcam? with build-in batteries? with r/c sender incorporated? with wooden case?). Just my two €-cents Well, nothing like that, my situation is: pietro want a neo, paolo want a neo, marco want a neo and they live in the same city, they know each other, so there are 2 solution, they separately buy 3 neos paying 3 times the shipping cost or make a single order paying only one time the shipping cost and dividing this cost in three. Doing the second solution you have satisfied the three friends and they have paid less than making three separate orders. I think that there is nothing illegal in that, only logic. Neo cost = 400$ shipping = 20$ vat = 20% (here in itay) so 80$ so if paolo, pietro and marco make 3 different orders they have to pay 500$ per neo, 1500$ in total if they make a single order they have to pay (480x3 + 20) /3 = 486$ per neo and 1460$ in total The example oviously is notso good with only 20$ for shipping but it give an idea of what i'd like to do. Nothing wrong with law or anything i think. Cya! Pietro ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
On Mittwoch, 19. März 2008, Carlo E. Prelz wrote: Quoting Peter Trapp ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Well, I've paid 300€ (=300$) for Neo1973 even without any reseller and group purchasing with two other guys to save shipping costs (to Germany)!! So, where is the big problem? You can go to www.oanda.com/convert/classic to have currency conversions for any date. Oh nice. I've search for end of April 2008 and didn't get any result? Also there is no real date when the Freerunner will be available. And also not how much it will cost. On the date of Sean's famous Get them while they're still hot! message, when ordering for Neo's was opened (9 July 07), 300$ equalled 220.216 euros. Today, the same 300$ equal 190.317 euros. This *should* be evident from the pricing. That is true and really a point! But how much will the exchange rate at end of April? In [1] it is said that (discussion between ScaredyCat and TRIsoft): TRIsoft 399$ would make 257 EUR TRIsoft Shipping from China / Taiwan / US appr. $70 to Europe TRIsoft is $469, makes 302 EUR TRIsoft plus 19% VAT is 360 EUR for a self import at the actual price. TRIsoft 399 EUR for the preorders is what we fixed during the meetings with a capping if the USD should fall in April TRIsoft Be sure, that we will lower the price, if possible. TRIsoft Actually, all we can say is: A device in Europe will cost not more than 399 EUR. TRIsoft Including all legal expenses and VAT TRIsoft And, believe me, the profit is not big. Profit may be less than zero if we run into warranty problems. TRIsoft We're in daily contact with the people at OM and i hope that we'll be able to lower the EU price a bit. But we'll never get 250 EUR. snip Resellers should get their profit from buying large quantities at a discounted price, I believe. Yes, I think so ... Don't get me wrong, the lower the price the better ;) cheers, - homyx [1]: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-March/014226.html -- It is hardly possible forecasting particularly for the future... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
On Friday 21 March 2008 11:01:37 Andy Powell wrote: Actually the best way to handle that is to buy currency at a fixed, guaranteed price. ukforex (no affiliaton) do this sort of thing. I don;t understand why more people don't do it. If you're importing stuff on a regular basis it just makes sense.. That just moves to problem to the question of when should I enter the forward. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
On 21 Mar 2008, at 10:01, Andy Powell wrote: On Thursday 20 March 2008 16:05, Stroller wrote: snip But we must remember that an importer has to tie his own money up in stock (money that could otherwise be earning interest for him) and gamble with the currency exchange rates. If he buys when the dollar is at 1:X and the exchange rate changes disfavourably to 1:Y, then he has to swallow the difference on all his existing stock. snip Actually the best way to handle that is to buy currency at a fixed, guaranteed price. ukforex (no affiliaton) do this sort of thing. I don;t understand why more people don't do it. If you're importing stuff on a regular basis it just makes sense.. Perhaps I'm failing to understand what ukforex does, but let's say I buy 100 units at $100 each, and buy 1.5 dollars for a Euro. I have spent $10,000 or €6,666 on the devices, or €66 each. A month or two later the dollar falls to $2:€1 - everyone starts complaining that a $100 device should only cost €50. That doesn't really help me, if I have 50 devices which I paid €66 for remaining in stock. (I hope I got the maths right - it's a little early in the morning here). Generally speaking currency fluctuations aren't so great over a short period, but nevertheless margins can be quite small, too (otherwise consumers start whinging about how they're being ripped-off!!). Consequently apparently-small fluctuations can make a big difference in the trader's pocket. In another post the importer is quoted as saying we're no bastards making a $100 profit with each box. Now I no longer sell or import hardware, and never did so full time, but I wouldn't bother selling the Freerunner unless I DID make the best part of $100 on each one. The Freerunner importer is CLEARLY no bastards!! I used to sell wireless cards as guaranteed Linux-compatible and made a 33% - 50% markup on each one, but even with that markup it wasn't worthwhile. Actually, 33% - 50% is a naive assessment of markup, because Google Adwords took a massive chunk out of that, but nevertheless the size of the Linux market is too small to support much business; one has to pay one's employees, the 1% or 2% you lose because everyone wants to pay by credit-card is like being stabbed to death with sewing needles and finally the taxman wants a cut of one's profit!! Margins on selling hardware are just so small that I don't know why anyone would wish to expose themselves to this list's whining! Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
Definite cultural problem within the open source/free software community. People use it for both definitions of 'free', and complain heavily over everything that isn't free (in $$). Small companies need to account for the risks they're taking for the community in their margins, otherwise they starve and fail -- notice the # of failed linux companies in the last 10 years? JWZ once said, linux is only free if your time is worth nothing. With modern distros, that's no longer the case -- you get a nice desktop system with less hassle than most windows users. But, the misconception between money, labor, and risk continues on in the community. In the oft-repeated spirit of the open source community, if you don't like how someone else is doing it, do it yourself. Hmm, just thinking out loud here. Would it be possible to distribute OM (Om now?) phones through the community? Single LUGs get together and order a batch (maybe resell as a fundraiser), with the help of some 'become-a-distributor-quick' system? I don't know how complicated it is in the EU to sell imported goods (I'm in the states, this sort of stuff is one of the few last benefits), is it possible to make it easy for a small group (or just 1 person with a few hundred euro) to make themselves a distributor? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
Am Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:48:10 +0100 schrieb Carlo E. Prelz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What we Europeans would need is a FIC subsidiary somewhere here, As I read FIC has some branch in Czech or Slovakia. Thing is: If you ship a container €70 is definitely not the price per device. You can help: motivate enough penguin people to buy a new phone and maybe some one will risk such order. If FIC could ship them to Czech (or Slovakia) with their in house post it might be easier to get a good price. Let's hope. Christian ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
Christian Beier ha scritto: Am Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:48:10 +0100 schrieb Carlo E. Prelz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What we Europeans would need is a FIC subsidiary somewhere here, As I read FIC has some branch in Czech or Slovakia. Thing is: If you ship a container €70 is definitely not the price per device. You can help: motivate enough penguin people to buy a new phone and maybe some one will risk such order. If FIC could ship them to Czech (or Slovakia) with their in house post it might be easier to get a good price. Let's hope. Christian This is what i'd like to do with my LUG and some other people near me, take the name, make only one order of 10 Neos and then give the phones to the people. Obviously the price will not be lowered a lot, but the shipping costs are usually divided so in total it will cost less to everyone. We always do the same with thinkgeek things or some CDs or DVDs. Just my 0.2€cent :D Pietro ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
On 20 Mar 2008, at 13:24, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: On 3/19/08, thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... you have to pay the 19% even if you import by yourself (the 19% are also on the shipping fees). That is not correct (at least here in Norway we do NOT pay VAT for the shipping fees) Conversely, in the UK we do. I guess it depends where the importer is based. To add my two pennies to this conversation, I don't like getting the shaft any more than anyone else does - here in Rip Off Britain we seem to get it worse than most Europeans (for instance I may consider buying an ATX server case from Germany, as it may well be cheaper, even with the currency exchange shipping, than buying locally). But we must remember that an importer has to tie his own money up in stock (money that could otherwise be earning interest for him) and gamble with the currency exchange rates. If he buys when the dollar is at 1:X and the exchange rate changes disfavourably to 1:Y, then he has to swallow the difference on all his existing stock. A reseller generally provides customer convenience - it's easy to order online from someone local - support and so on, and has to make a profit (otherwise he might as well go close his business and go work for someone else). I can't believe that Phones will be the only place to buy a Moko, so if you don't like it, go shop somewhere else. Maybe if we find in 6 months time that there's no way to buy in Europe without paying 50% more than the dollar price, that's a time to complain, but IMO it's a bit early for whinging. Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Was reading Planet OpenMoko and found the following at http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/03/18/from-switzerland-to-brazil/ : The price range for the Neo FreeRunner has been published, it's going to be less than 400 USD — which is quite a substantial improvement over the estimated 650 that was published last year. Was the price range really published? Where is it? Equally important -- is that the stock unit price or the dev kit? The latter would be fantastic, but I fear it's just the former. -- H. Lally Singh Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science Virginia Tech ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Was reading Planet OpenMoko and found the following at http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/03/18/from-switzerland-to-brazil/ : The price range for the Neo FreeRunner has been published, it's going to be less than 400 USD which is quite a substantial improvement over the estimated 650 that was published last year. Was the price range really published? Where is it? Equally important -- is that the stock unit price or the dev kit? The latter would be fantastic, but I fear it's just the former. If I recall correctly, the initial Freerunner pricing was $450 for the device and $600 for the devkit. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
On Wednesday 19 March 2008, Steven ** wrote: Was reading Planet OpenMoko and found the following at http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/03/18/from-switzerland-to-b razil/ The price range for the Neo FreeRunner has been published, it's going to be less than 400 USD — which is quite a substantial improvement over the estimated 650 that was published last year. Was the price range really published? Where is it? From Sean's 'New Oceans' post on 2007-06-28: GTA02 (AKA: The Mass Market Neo 1973) is on schedule to go on sale in October. It will have the following new hardware components: * 802.11 b/g WiFi * Samsung 2442 SoC * SMedia 3362 Graphics Accelerator * 2 3D Accelerometers * 256MB Flash We will sell this device through multiple channels. Direct from openmoko.com, the price will be $450 for the Neo Base and $600 for Neo Advanced. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
On Wednesday 19 March 2008 16:10, Steven ** wrote: Was reading Planet OpenMoko and found the following at http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/03/18/from-switzerland-to-b razil/ The price range for the Neo FreeRunner has been published, it's going to be less than 400 USD — which is quite a substantial improvement over the estimated 650 that was published last year. Was the price range really published? Where is it? One can only hope that 'trisoft' aren't the official distributor in Europe since they have the Freerunner priced at a 'preorder' price of 400EUR I'm going to say it once and very very loudly... 400USD != 400EUR If this is an indication of the pricing for Europe, please arrange for some European versions to get shipped to the USA where we can buy them and have them shipped to Europe. /rant Andy ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner published? Date: mer 19 mar 08 05:51:01 +0100 Quoting Sander van Grieken ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): If I recall correctly, the initial Freerunner pricing was $450 for the device and $600 for the devkit. What I really hope is that the price in US$ corresponds to the one in euros. At today's exchange rates, 450$ = 285.46 euros. I am writing this because the fact of using european distributors generally brings in big surcharges. Please do make sure that your european distributors sell at the right price. After all, equipment is produced in China, and imported both in the US and in EU. If at all possible, I suggest to ship part of the production directly to Europe, not via US. I believe the European Union is a large enough market... Carlo -- * Se la Strada e la sua Virtu' non fossero state messe da parte, * K * Carlo E. Prelz - [EMAIL PROTECTED] che bisogno ci sarebbe * di parlare tanto di amore e di rettitudine? (Chuang-Tzu) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
Oh wow, I've been paying a little bit of attention to those exchange rates, but I hadn't realized it's gotten that bad. On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 1:07 PM, Carlo E. Prelz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner published? Date: mer 19 mar 08 05:51:01 +0100 Quoting Sander van Grieken ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): If I recall correctly, the initial Freerunner pricing was $450 for the device and $600 for the devkit. What I really hope is that the price in US$ corresponds to the one in euros. At today's exchange rates, 450$ = 285.46 euros. I am writing this because the fact of using european distributors generally brings in big surcharges. Please do make sure that your european distributors sell at the right price. After all, equipment is produced in China, and imported both in the US and in EU. If at all possible, I suggest to ship part of the production directly to Europe, not via US. I believe the European Union is a large enough market... Carlo -- * Se la Strada e la sua Virtu' non fossero state messe da parte, * K * Carlo E. Prelz - [EMAIL PROTECTED] che bisogno ci sarebbe * di parlare tanto di amore e di rettitudine? (Chuang-Tzu) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
Since nobody seems to realize it, I guess I have to explain this. 1. Even the distributor has to pay shipping 2. 19% VAT in germany 3. x% additional fees (recycling, ...) in germany/europe 4. 2 years warranty in germany 5. The dollar-euro change will not always remain nearby 1.60$/1€ 6. People who handle the shipping and warranty in germany, do you think they can work for free? Don't get me wrong, I also like to get products cheap and not too expensive, but nobody can really expect to get the device for 285 euro from a resaler - you have to pay the 19% even if you import by yourself (the 19% are also on the shipping fees). On 3/19/08, Tim Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh wow, I've been paying a little bit of attention to those exchange rates, but I hadn't realized it's gotten that bad. On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 1:07 PM, Carlo E. Prelz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner published? Date: mer 19 mar 08 05:51:01 +0100 Quoting Sander van Grieken ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): If I recall correctly, the initial Freerunner pricing was $450 for the device and $600 for the devkit. What I really hope is that the price in US$ corresponds to the one in euros. At today's exchange rates, 450$ = 285.46 euros. I am writing this because the fact of using european distributors generally brings in big surcharges. Please do make sure that your european distributors sell at the right price. After all, equipment is produced in China, and imported both in the US and in EU. If at all possible, I suggest to ship part of the production directly to Europe, not via US. I believe the European Union is a large enough market... Carlo -- * Se la Strada e la sua Virtu' non fossero state messe da parte, * K * Carlo E. Prelz - [EMAIL PROTECTED] che bisogno ci sarebbe * di parlare tanto di amore e di rettitudine? (Chuang-Tzu) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
On Mittwoch, 19. März 2008, Lally Singh wrote: On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Was reading Planet OpenMoko and found the following at http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/03/18/from-switzerland-to -brazil/ The price range for the Neo FreeRunner has been published, it's going to be less than 400 USD — which is quite a substantial improvement over the estimated 650 that was published last year. Was the price range really published? Where is it? Equally important -- is that the stock unit price or the dev kit? The latter would be fantastic, but I fear it's just the former. Michael Lauer said, that there will not be any advanced box anymore[1]. The range (IMHO of the basic set) will be between 350 - 450 as said by mickeyl ... cheers -homyx [1] Talk at OpenExpo 2008at ~ 22:22 min (German) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2115673181798091662q=openexpo+openmoko+2008total=2start=0num=10so=0type=searchplindex=0 (this link can also be found at the above mentioned webpage ;) ) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 6:40 PM, thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since nobody seems to realize it, I guess I have to explain this. 1. Even the distributor has to pay shipping 2. 19% VAT in germany 3. x% additional fees (recycling, ...) in germany/europe 4. 2 years warranty in germany 5. The dollar-euro change will not always remain nearby 1.60$/1€ 6. People who handle the shipping and warranty in germany, do you think they can work for free? Don't get me wrong, I also like to get products cheap and not too expensive, but nobody can really expect to get the device for 285 euro from a resaler - you have to pay the 19% even if you import by yourself (the 19% are also on the shipping fees). Regarding points 1, 2, 3 and 6 - doesn't the US have something similar? Regarding 5 - shouldn't the prices be according to current exchange rates? Isn't that the whole point of exchange rates? -- Vincent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
On Mittwoch, 19. März 2008, Andy Powell wrote: On Wednesday 19 March 2008 16:10, Steven ** wrote: Was reading Planet OpenMoko and found the following at http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/03/18/from-switzerland-to -b razil/ The price range for the Neo FreeRunner has been published, it's going to be less than 400 USD — which is quite a substantial improvement over the estimated 650 that was published last year. Was the price range really published? Where is it? One can only hope that 'trisoft' aren't the official distributor in Europe since they have the Freerunner priced at a 'preorder' price of 400EUR I'm going to say it once and very very loudly... 400USD != 400EUR If this is an indication of the pricing for Europe, please arrange for some European versions to get shipped to the USA where we can buy them and have them shipped to Europe. /rant Well, I've paid 300€ (=300$) for Neo1973 even without any reseller and group purchasing with two other guys to save shipping costs (to Germany)!! So, where is the big problem? cheers -homyx ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
On Wednesday 19 March 2008 17:56, Andy Powell wrote: On Wednesday 19 March 2008 16:10, Steven ** wrote: Was reading Planet OpenMoko and found the following at http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/03/18/from-switzerland-to -b razil/ The price range for the Neo FreeRunner has been published, it's going to be less than 400 USD — which is quite a substantial improvement over the estimated 650 that was published last year. Was the price range really published? Where is it? One can only hope that 'trisoft' aren't the official distributor in Europe since they have the Freerunner priced at a 'preorder' price of 400EUR I'm going to say it once and very very loudly... 400USD != 400EUR If this is an indication of the pricing for Europe, please arrange for some European versions to get shipped to the USA where we can buy them and have them shipped to Europe. /rant Andy Ok, I'll admit to posting while in a state of frustration and perhaps I should have just bitten my tongue. I've just had a conversation on irc that went thus: TRIsoft Hi, why don't you try to talk with me/us before ranting ? TRIsoft Calm down, we didn't made the price ScaredyCat sorry, was just making coffee TRIsoft No problem TRIsoft I see, that you're a little bit upset ;-) TRIsoft Please give me a chance to explain you some background... ScaredyCat I'm just expressing my frustration, because invariably we *do* get shafted in europe ScaredyCat I'm more than happy to listen TRIsoft No, you're not. Please let me say something about this TRIsoft At first, the price wasn't an idea from us. TRIsoft We had some meetings with the OM sales manager two weeks ago. TRIsoft And the price point at this moment was around 450$ TRIsoft So we sat there, thought about a bulk price, shipping, all this stuff. TRIsoft And came up with 399 EUR TRIsoft This is including the 19% VAT, shipping, WEEE expenses, battery recycling and all the nasty stuff we have to pay here in the EU TRIsoft Also we all don't know, what the USD/EUR rate will be in late April TRIsoft Let's look at the actual numbers and let's assume EUR/USD at 1.55 TRIsoft 399$ would make 257 EUR TRIsoft Shipping from China / Taiwan / US appr. $70 to Europe TRIsoft is $469, makes 302 EUR TRIsoft plus 19% VAT is 360 EUR for a self import at the actual price. TRIsoft 399 EUR for the preorders is what we fixed during the meetings with a capping if the USD should fall in April TRIsoft Be sure, that we will lower the price, if possible. TRIsoft Actually, all we can say is: A device in Europe will cost not more than 399 EUR. TRIsoft Including all legal expenses and VAT TRIsoft And, believe me, the profit is not big. Profit may be less than zero if we run into warranty problems. TRIsoft We're in daily contact with the people at OM and i hope that we'll be able to lower the EU price a bit. But we'll never get 250 EUR. ScaredyCat Im' not expecting a 250 EUR price tag, I *do* understand that you need to make something out of it, but I still don't understand why there is a shipping cost ($70) for non US customers ScaredyCat when there is no such cost for US customers. TRIsoft Because they ship UPS packages over the pond. ScaredyCat essentially European customers are subsidising US customers TRIsoft The units are manufactured in China. TRIsoft We're sitting between two chairs here. TRIsoft OM says: Start preorder, give us numbers. TRIsoft We don't have a finally fixed pricing at the moment. TRIsoft But the community expects it. TRIsoft And the US customers don't have to deal with VAT and all the other idiotic EU stuff. TRIsoft We even have to pay fees for the micro-SD cards in the boxes :-( ScaredyCat ok, is it ok with you if I disclose this conversation, if just to set the record straight? TRIsoft It is a complicate field, but we're no bastards making a $100 profit with each box. TRIsoft Sure. I just wanted to explain the problems, we're facing here. ScaredyCat I appreciate that... ScaredyCat but it does still look th ScaredyCat oops ScaredyCat but it does still look the European market is getting the shaft - paying extra for shipping. Ok it may not be your fault, but it is a valid point to bitch about TRIsoft Sure. I understand your point. But i direct $/EUR conversion is also unfair. ScaredyCat absolutely... but 400usd and 400eur don;t match either... TRIsoft I know. We'll work on it. Promised. ScaredyCat good stuff... TRIsoft And you keep up the good work on OM ;-) So there you have it. I still have an issue with the shipping, I see no reason why European customers should effectively pay for shipping twice. Let's hope that companies like TRIsoft get their shipment direct from China rather than having to reship from the USA. Andy ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
On Wednesday 19 March 2008 17:56, Andy Powell wrote: On Wednesday 19 March 2008 16:10, Steven ** wrote: Was reading Planet OpenMoko and found the following at http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/03/18/from-switzerland-to -b razil/ The price range for the Neo FreeRunner has been published, it's going to be less than 400 USD — which is quite a substantial improvement over the estimated 650 that was published last year. Was the price range really published? Where is it? One can only hope that 'trisoft' aren't the official distributor in Europe since they have the Freerunner priced at a 'preorder' price of 400EUR I'm going to say it once and very very loudly... 400USD != 400EUR If this is an indication of the pricing for Europe, please arrange for some European versions to get shipped to the USA where we can buy them and have them shipped to Europe. /rant Andy Ok, I'll admit to posting while in a state of frustration and perhaps I should have just bitten my tongue. I've just had a conversation on irc that went thus: TRIsoft Hi, why don't you try to talk with me/us before ranting ? TRIsoft Calm down, we didn't made the price ScaredyCat sorry, was just making coffee TRIsoft No problem TRIsoft I see, that you're a little bit upset ;-) TRIsoft Please give me a chance to explain you some background... ScaredyCat I'm just expressing my frustration, because invariably we *do* get shafted in europe ScaredyCat I'm more than happy to listen TRIsoft No, you're not. Please let me say something about this TRIsoft At first, the price wasn't an idea from us. TRIsoft We had some meetings with the OM sales manager two weeks ago. TRIsoft And the price point at this moment was around 450$ TRIsoft So we sat there, thought about a bulk price, shipping, all this stuff. TRIsoft And came up with 399 EUR TRIsoft This is including the 19% VAT, shipping, WEEE expenses, battery recycling and all the nasty stuff we have to pay here in the EU TRIsoft Also we all don't know, what the USD/EUR rate will be in late April TRIsoft Let's look at the actual numbers and let's assume EUR/USD at 1.55 TRIsoft 399$ would make 257 EUR TRIsoft Shipping from China / Taiwan / US appr. $70 to Europe TRIsoft is $469, makes 302 EUR TRIsoft plus 19% VAT is 360 EUR for a self import at the actual price. TRIsoft 399 EUR for the preorders is what we fixed during the meetings with a capping if the USD should fall in April TRIsoft Be sure, that we will lower the price, if possible. TRIsoft Actually, all we can say is: A device in Europe will cost not more than 399 EUR. TRIsoft Including all legal expenses and VAT TRIsoft And, believe me, the profit is not big. Profit may be less than zero if we run into warranty problems. TRIsoft We're in daily contact with the people at OM and i hope that we'll be able to lower the EU price a bit. But we'll never get 250 EUR. ScaredyCat Im' not expecting a 250 EUR price tag, I *do* understand that you need to make something out of it, but I still don't understand why there is a shipping cost ($70) for non US customers ScaredyCat when there is no such cost for US customers. TRIsoft Because they ship UPS packages over the pond. ScaredyCat essentially European customers are subsidising US customers TRIsoft The units are manufactured in China. TRIsoft We're sitting between two chairs here. TRIsoft OM says: Start preorder, give us numbers. TRIsoft We don't have a finally fixed pricing at the moment. TRIsoft But the community expects it. TRIsoft And the US customers don't have to deal with VAT and all the other idiotic EU stuff. TRIsoft We even have to pay fees for the micro-SD cards in the boxes :-( ScaredyCat ok, is it ok with you if I disclose this conversation, if just to set the record straight? TRIsoft It is a complicate field, but we're no bastards making a $100 profit with each box. TRIsoft Sure. I just wanted to explain the problems, we're facing here. ScaredyCat I appreciate that... ScaredyCat but it does still look th ScaredyCat oops ScaredyCat but it does still look the European market is getting the shaft - paying extra for shipping. Ok it may not be your fault, but it is a valid point to bitch about TRIsoft Sure. I understand your point. But i direct $/EUR conversion is also unfair. ScaredyCat absolutely... but 400usd and 400eur don;t match either... TRIsoft I know. We'll work on it. Promised. ScaredyCat good stuff... TRIsoft And you keep up the good work on OM ;-) So there you have it. I still have an issue with the shipping, I see no reason why European customers should effectively pay for shipping twice. Let's hope that companies like TRIsoft get their shipment direct from China rather than having to reship from the USA. Andy ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
Vincent wrote: 2. 19% VAT in germany 3. x% additional fees (recycling, ...) in germany/europe Regarding points 1, 2, 3 and 6 - doesn't the US have something similar? 2. I'm originally from Canada, but my experience in the US is that each state, and sometimes within separate counties within the state can charge varying amounts of tax. On a whole though, the Federal government does not add a value-added tax (VAT), like the Canadian government does with the GST (goods and services tax). 3. California typically charges an environmental waste impact (or some similarly-phrased term) for electronics. I don't know about other states. We're all supposed to be a bunch of tree-huggers or something out here /shrug Regarding 5 - shouldn't the prices be according to current exchange rates? Isn't that the whole point of exchange rates? Currency exchange rates can be pretty volatile though, and basing a price on a currency that's fluctuating a lot (like the US dollar), in my opinion, doesn't make as much sense. At the same time, marketing the Freerunner in, say, Euros, might make these Americans around me feel alienated or something. ;o) Just my $0.02 ... plus tax. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
Hi folks, several days ago I got from www.pulster.de the price 399€ for the stock unit, incl. shipment, taxes etc. Am Mittwoch, den 19.03.2008, 19:58 +0100 schrieb Peter Trapp: ... 400USD != 400EUR ... -- mfg/br, christian Flurstraße 14 29640 Schneverdingen E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Telefon: +49 5193 97 14 95 Mobile: +49 171 357 59 57 http://wesselch.homelinux.org signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
Andy Powell wrote: 400USD != 400EUR If this is an indication of the pricing for Europe, please arrange for some European versions to get shipped to the USA where we can buy them and have them shipped to Europe. I do agree with you...! -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
Andy Powell wrote: TRIsoft 399$ would make 257 EUR TRIsoft Shipping from China / Taiwan / US appr. $70 to Europe TRIsoft is $469, makes 302 EUR TRIsoft plus 19% VAT is 360 EUR for a self import at the actual price. Well, I don't think that a seller buys the shipping of each phone $70... Maybe they'll pay that for 10 phones... Am I wrong?! So there you have it. I still have an issue with the shipping, I see no reason why European customers should effectively pay for shipping twice. Let's hope that companies like TRIsoft get their shipment direct from China rather than having to reship from the USA. I hope there will be something like this...! -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner published? Date: Wed 19 Mar 08 07:58:50PM +0100 Quoting Peter Trapp ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Well, I've paid 300€ (=300$) for Neo1973 even without any reseller and group purchasing with two other guys to save shipping costs (to Germany)!! So, where is the big problem? You can go to www.oanda.com/convert/classic to have currency conversions for any date. On the date of Sean's famous Get them while they're still hot! message, when ordering for Neo's was opened (9 July 07), 300$ equalled 220.216 euros. Today, the same 300$ equal 190.317 euros. This *should* be evident from the pricing. What we Europeans would need is a FIC subsidiary somewhere here, importing directly from China, with (pre-tax) prices that are equal, after currency conversion, to the prices established for the US market. Sorry for the resellers, but... Delivery of a container full of cellphones from China to either US or EU must cost comparably, and both US and EU must offer some sort of warranty. Resellers should get their profit from buying large quantities at a discounted price, I believe. Carlo -- * Se la Strada e la sua Virtu' non fossero state messe da parte, * K * Carlo E. Prelz - [EMAIL PROTECTED] che bisogno ci sarebbe * di parlare tanto di amore e di rettitudine? (Chuang-Tzu) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner published?
On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 5:48 PM, Carlo E. Prelz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: both US and EU must offer some sort of warranty. I don't believe this is true. IIRC the EU requires sellers or manufacturers to warranty items (or perhaps specific items) but there's no such requirement in the USA (though most companies do it). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
