Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
Does it also boots from the SD Card? I also have a 8GB SD Card and Linux was able to mount and use it. but uboot has some problems reading from the card. I dont know if this also happens with current uboot versions.. Am Donnerstag, 10. Juli 2008 20.45:06 schrieb ian douglas: Hey all, Got my 8GB SanDisk 8GB micro SDHC card [1] in a few minutes ago, popped it into my GTA02v5 (beta tester model) Freerunner and running a few tests on it. So far, so good. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# mount | grep media /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/card type vfat (rw,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1) [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# df -h | grep media /dev/mmcblk0p17.6G 32.0k 7.6G 0% /media/card If anything weird comes up in my testing, I'll let everyone know. -id [1] http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171320 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Andreas Zuber Linux System-Ingenieur Puzzle ITC GmbH www.puzzle.ch Telefon +41 31 370 22 00 Direkt +41 31 370 22 49 Mobile +41 79 766 25 51 Fax +41 31 370 22 01 Puzzle ist Mitglied der Eclipse Foundation: http://www.puzzle.ch/eclipse/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
hey Marco, do you know where to find the patches? Would be nice to know where to find them. br Bastian On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 3:34 PM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andreas Zuber ha scritto: Does it also boots from the SD Card? I also have a 8GB SD Card and Linux was able to mount and use it. but uboot has some problems reading from the card. I dont know if this also happens with current uboot versions.. There are some patch in the kernel list to fix this. Both the kernel and the uBoot should be patched to make them load correctly an ext2 fs (the best, I figure, for keeping the data in SD storages). -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- -- spread the word ... see www.browsehappy.com ;o) Calvin: Weekends don't count unless you spend them doing something completely pointless. Join the Greater IBM Connection (http://www.xing.com/premiumgroup-6291.d26b7d) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
Bastian Feder ha scritto: hey Marco, do you know where to find the patches? Here you are: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.kernel/3759 http://moko.mwester.net/dl.html -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
thx a lot! On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 8:18 PM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bastian Feder ha scritto: hey Marco, do you know where to find the patches? Here you are: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.kernel/3759 http://moko.mwester.net/dl.html -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- -- spread the word ... see www.browsehappy.com ;o) Calvin: Weekends don't count unless you spend them doing something completely pointless. Join the Greater IBM Connection (http://www.xing.com/premiumgroup-6291.d26b7d) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
FYI. This card works great in my FreeRunner. I didn't have to reformat it or anything (perhaps I should). -Steven On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 1:59 PM, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's good news. Hopefully I'll have as good luck with the 8GB card I just bought. It's A-Data brand. But it was a good price: http://digitaldeals.net/article69437.html -Steven On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 1:45 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey all, Got my 8GB SanDisk 8GB micro SDHC card [1] in a few minutes ago, popped it into my GTA02v5 (beta tester model) Freerunner and running a few tests on it. So far, so good. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# mount | grep media /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/card type vfat (rw,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1) [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# df -h | grep media /dev/mmcblk0p17.6G 32.0k 7.6G 0% /media/card If anything weird comes up in my testing, I'll let everyone know. -id [1] http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171320 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
Hi list, I got myself a Kingston SDC4/4GB microSD card. While this piece is working properly in a cardreader connected to a laptop - using it with the freerunner is impossible due to i/o errors. This includes accessing filesystemobjects and even the partition table. The errors occur almost immediately. I tested both vfat and ext2. greetings malte ian douglas wrote: Hey all, Got my 8GB SanDisk 8GB micro SDHC card [1] in a few minutes ago, popped it into my GTA02v5 (beta tester model) Freerunner and running a few tests on it. So far, so good. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# mount | grep media /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/card type vfat (rw,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1) [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# df -h | grep media /dev/mmcblk0p17.6G 32.0k 7.6G 0% /media/card If anything weird comes up in my testing, I'll let everyone know. -id [1] http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171320 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
Am Do 10. Juli 2008 schrieb ian douglas: Shawn Rutledge wrote: What about on the GTA01? The biggest I have tried so far is 2 gig because I wasn't sure if SDHC was working. I sold my GTA01 months ago earlier this year, so I can only test on my GTA02v5. I imagine someone with a v6 Freerunner can do some additional testing. There's no difference between A5 and A6 /jOERG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
It will depend of the amount and type of activity and size of files. I like the look of nilfs or logfs,but I'm not sure they are available or even mature enough. Flyin_bbb8 wrote: So what's the best filesystem to use on our microSDs? On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 12:51 AM, Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: pe, 2008-07-11 kello 15:44 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer kirjoitti: Checking you're right. I could swear I saw early on that the whole reason jffs2 was used on the GTA01 was because SD didn't do that. So anybody know why it was used? Bee-cause the internal flash is not SD but raw flash, on both Neos? -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
ian douglas wrote: and once on the unit's own Flash ROM as a comparison: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# cd /opt [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/opt# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 50 Size (MiB)Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 501.577 9.530 Oh, another factor to consider is filesystem compression. I wonder if these are real I/O speeds or if jffs2 is squishing the test file down to a smaller number of blocks. I guess I should re-write my utility to fill its buffer with uncompressible pseudo-random data. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
Hey, I've got my 8 GB SanDisk microSD SDHC and my mass-production Freerunner yesterday. Works like a charm (damn, I didn't know these cards are that small! ;) ). I'll do some benchmarks and post them to the list ASAP. If you want me to do some special test runs, just let me know! ciao, André ian douglas schrieb: Hey all, Got my 8GB SanDisk 8GB micro SDHC card [1] in a few minutes ago, popped it into my GTA02v5 (beta tester model) Freerunner and running a few tests on it. So far, so good. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# mount | grep media /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/card type vfat (rw,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1) [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# df -h | grep media /dev/mmcblk0p17.6G 32.0k 7.6G 0% /media/card If anything weird comes up in my testing, I'll let everyone know. -id [1] http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171320 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
this is extremely interesting! On the Wiki we should add the max (or medium) read and write speed I think. This will grant no surprises at all for anyone buying a listed card 2008/7/11 ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ian douglas wrote: I'll try Mike's iospeed utility next, but here's a dual-run of the bonnie++ utility: I should mention too that before running bonnie++ or Mike's utility, that I deleted the FAT32 partition on the 8GB card, created a single primary type-83 Linux partition and formatted it ext3. Since I rarely run Windows at home any more, I didn't see any need to continue to use vfat-formatted memory cards. Mike Montour wrote: http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/neo/iospeed is a simple performance-test program that I wrote (source is iospeed.c in the same directory) Mike, your binary is 420kb ... I'm guessing that you compiled your code with the cross-compiler toolchain? After installing gcc/g++ and stdlib stuff via opkg on the Freerunner, I was able to compile the utility directly on the Freerunner and it came out to only 15kb. Either way, here's my results with the 8GB SDHC card: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# wget \ http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/neo/iospeed [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# chmod +x iospeed [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# wget \ http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/neo/iospeed.c [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# gcc iospeed.c -o iospeed2 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# ls -l -rwxr-xr-x1 root root 418384 Jul 10 21:08 iospeed -rw-r--r--1 root root 2444 Jul 10 21:08 iospeed.c -rwxr-xr-x1 root root14758 Jul 10 21:19 iospeed2 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# ./iospeed2 usage: ./iospeed2 filename size-in-MiB I moved the iospeed files to /opt/ so I could compare against the 512MB card that shipped with the Freerunner, and ran Mike's utility three times on the 8GB SDHC card: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 0.776 8.890 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 1.566 9.417 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 1.557 9.396 and once on the unit's own Flash ROM as a comparison: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# cd /opt [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/opt# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 50 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 50 1.577 9.530 Then tested /tmp which I guess is a RAM drive considering the speed boost: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# cd /tmp [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/tmp# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 50 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 50 28.617 42.786 The 512MB card that came with my Freerunner has some other files on it, and is formatted as vfat/FAT32. I ran the iospeed utility there three times as well: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 2.020 2.739 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 2.187 2.743 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 2.207 2.736 So according to Mike's utility, writing the the 8GB card is slightly faster, but reading is several times slower reading the 512MB card. I was curious if this was a vfat vs ext3 performance hit, so I deleted the partition on the 512MB card, built a primary type 83 partition, formatted it ext3 and re-ran the iospeed tests: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 1.789 2.495 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 1.722 2.505 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 1.786 2.478 So interestingly enough, writes were slower on ext3 than vfat on the 512MB card. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
I found a Sandisk Micro SD 8gb on the pavement today. It was full of *.nds files, Nintendo DS roms I think. Will it work in the FR? ian douglas wrote: Hey all, Got my 8GB SanDisk 8GB micro SDHC card [1] in a few minutes ago, popped it into my GTA02v5 (beta tester model) Freerunner and running a few tests on it. So far, so good. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# mount | grep media /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/card type vfat (rw,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1) [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# df -h | grep media /dev/mmcblk0p17.6G 32.0k 7.6G 0% /media/card If anything weird comes up in my testing, I'll let everyone know. -id [1] http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171320 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 3:56 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So interestingly enough, writes were slower on ext3 than vfat on the 512MB card. Makes sense, ext3 is journaled, and using a journaling FS on flash memory is generally a bad idea. Could you also try ext2? Thanks, Federico ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
Federico Lorenzi wrote: On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 3:56 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So interestingly enough, writes were slower on ext3 than vfat on the 512MB card. Makes sense, ext3 is journaled, and using a journaling FS on flash memory is generally a bad idea. Could you also try ext2? Thanks, Federico ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I had some performance issues using ssd on my laptops a while back. At the time I couldn't find much out about the various merits of different filesystems and block sizes. I recently searched again and found this document : http://www.usenix.org/event/lsf08/tech/shin_SSD.pdf Looking thought charts ( I wish there was a podcast), it looks like a 4kb block size is best, and nilfs performance best as the filesystem. nilfs http://www.nilfs.org/en/ here's an interesting thread on using nilfs on ssd http://www.nilfs.org/pipermail/users/2008-February/000188.html Is nilfs availble for openmoko ? Regards Matt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
Wow. Thanks to everyone for testing and posting your results! On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 12:38 AM, André Gaul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, I've got my 8 GB SanDisk microSD SDHC and my mass-production Freerunner yesterday. Works like a charm (damn, I didn't know these cards are that small! ;) ). I'll do some benchmarks and post them to the list ASAP. If you want me to do some special test runs, just let me know! ciao, André ian douglas schrieb: Hey all, Got my 8GB SanDisk 8GB micro SDHC card [1] in a few minutes ago, popped it into my GTA02v5 (beta tester model) Freerunner and running a few tests on it. So far, so good. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# mount | grep media /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/card type vfat (rw,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1) [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# df -h | grep media /dev/mmcblk0p17.6G 32.0k 7.6G 0% /media/card If anything weird comes up in my testing, I'll let everyone know. -id [1] http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171320 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
Federico Lorenzi wrote: Makes sense, ext3 is journaled, and using a journaling FS on flash memory is generally a bad idea. Could you also try ext2? Sorry, I'm not up to speed on flash and file systems -- why is a journaled file system a bad idea? I re-ran all of my tests on the new 8GB SanDisk micro SDHC card: I built an 8GB partition, type 'b' (win95 fat32), formatted as 'vfat' done on Ubuntu, then installed in my Freerunner and started up: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 2.038 2.755 Ran fdisk on the Freerunner, changed partition type to '83' (linux), formatted as ext3, re-mounted as /media/card: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 2.046 2.643 Then re-formatted as ext2 and re-mounted as /media/card: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 2.107 2.779 Conclusions: - very little difference writing a 100MB file. - ext3 is slower, on average for reading, while vfat and ext2 are pretty similar. Should I try it again with smaller file sizes? Should I try it again with the various partition/fs types running bonnie++ to see how it benchmarks things too? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:47 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Federico Lorenzi wrote: Makes sense, ext3 is journaled, and using a journaling FS on flash memory is generally a bad idea. Could you also try ext2? Sorry, I'm not up to speed on flash and file systems -- why is a journaled file system a bad idea? Journaled file systems perform lots of extra writes to the drive. Flash drives wear out a little quicker (in terms of writes) than other drives. Putting the two together means you're probably decreasing the length of your drive's life. --- Andrew Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
Andrew Bennett wrote: Journaled file systems perform lots of extra writes to the drive. Flash drives wear out a little quicker (in terms of writes) than other drives. Putting the two together means you're probably decreasing the length of your drive's life. Gotcha, thanks! -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
Andrew Bennett writes: On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:47 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Federico Lorenzi wrote: Makes sense, ext3 is journaled, and using a journaling FS on flash memory is generally a bad idea. Could you also try ext2? Sorry, I'm not up to speed on flash and file systems -- why is a journaled file system a bad idea? Journaled file systems perform lots of extra writes to the drive. Flash drives wear out a little quicker (in terms of writes) than other drives. Putting the two together means you're probably decreasing the length of your drive's life. Well... using an inode-based filesystem like ext2 or ext3 is a really bad idea, since you end up rewriting some of the blocks a *lot*. Journalling the metadata, as ext3 does it, does make things even worse as you say. Using a purely journalled FS like jffs2, on the other hand, is a really good idea since it's designed to avoid exactly those flaws. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
pe, 2008-07-11 kello 15:17 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer kirjoitti: Well... using an inode-based filesystem like ext2 or ext3 is a really bad idea, since you end up rewriting some of the blocks a *lot*. Journalling the metadata, as ext3 does it, does make things even worse as you say. Using a purely journalled FS like jffs2, on the other hand, is a really good idea since it's designed to avoid exactly those flaws. SD does wear-leveling. JFFS2 is redundant on those, though probably generic leveling isn't quite as efficient than what a leveling filesystem can manage on raw flash. (Slapping leveling on leveling isn't likely to improve things much, I would think...) -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
Mikko Rauhala writes: pe, 2008-07-11 kello 15:17 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer kirjoitti: Well... using an inode-based filesystem like ext2 or ext3 is a really bad idea, since you end up rewriting some of the blocks a *lot*. Journalling the metadata, as ext3 does it, does make things even worse as you say. Using a purely journalled FS like jffs2, on the other hand, is a really good idea since it's designed to avoid exactly those flaws. SD does wear-leveling. JFFS2 is redundant on those, though probably generic leveling isn't quite as efficient than what a leveling filesystem can manage on raw flash. (Slapping leveling on leveling isn't likely to improve things much, I would think...) Checking you're right. I could swear I saw early on that the whole reason jffs2 was used on the GTA01 was because SD didn't do that. So anybody know why it was used? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
pe, 2008-07-11 kello 15:44 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer kirjoitti: Checking you're right. I could swear I saw early on that the whole reason jffs2 was used on the GTA01 was because SD didn't do that. So anybody know why it was used? Bee-cause the internal flash is not SD but raw flash, on both Neos? -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
So what's the best filesystem to use on our microSDs? On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 12:51 AM, Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: pe, 2008-07-11 kello 15:44 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer kirjoitti: Checking you're right. I could swear I saw early on that the whole reason jffs2 was used on the GTA01 was because SD didn't do that. So anybody know why it was used? Bee-cause the internal flash is not SD but raw flash, on both Neos? -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
also don't forget to mount your journaled (or not) filesystems with 'noatime' or 'relatime' (more recent addition to the kernel...) options to eliminate the need to update timestamps on each read. I don'thave the FR yet so I am not sure but checking for those options in / partition also makes sense to gain startup and functioning speed-up On Fri, 11 Jul 2008, Andrew Bennett wrote: Journaled file systems perform lots of extra writes to the drive. Flash drives wear out a little quicker (in terms of writes) than other drives. Putting the two together means you're probably decreasing the length of your drive's life. -- Yaroslav Halchenko Research Assistant, Psychology Department, Rutgers-Newark Student Ph.D. @ CS Dept. NJIT Office: (973) 353-5440x263 | FWD: 82823 | Fax: (973) 353-1171 101 Warren Str, Smith Hall, Rm 4-105, Newark NJ 07102 WWW: http://www.linkedin.com/in/yarik ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
Federico Lorenzi wrote: Makes sense, ext3 is journaled, and using a journaling FS on flash memory is generally a bad idea. Could you also try ext2? By default ext3 only journals metadata, so it shouldn't have much performance impact for large files. SD cards are dirt-cheap these days, so I'm willing to accept a somewhat reduced lifespan in order to get the journaling feature of ext3. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
ian douglas wrote: ian douglas wrote: Mike, your binary is 420kb ... I'm guessing that you compiled your code with the cross-compiler toolchain? Probably, but it was a while ago and I don't remember where I built it (I have a MokoMakefile cross-compile environment and a native toolchain on the Neo). Anyway, a natively-compiled version should be fine. I moved the iospeed files to /opt/ so I could compare against the 512MB card that shipped with the Freerunner, and ran Mike's utility three times on the 8GB SDHC card: [...] [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB)Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 1.557 9.396 and once on the unit's own Flash ROM as a comparison: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# cd /opt [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/opt# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 50 Size (MiB)Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 501.577 9.530 Those numbers are very similar, and given the numbers that you posted in your later email I would guess that the 8G card was not actually mounted for this test run. Then tested /tmp which I guess is a RAM drive considering the speed boost: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# cd /tmp [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/tmp# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 50 Size (MiB)Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 5028.617 42.786 Yes, /var/volatile is a 'tmpfs' filesystem. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
That's good news. Hopefully I'll have as good luck with the 8GB card I just bought. It's A-Data brand. But it was a good price: http://digitaldeals.net/article69437.html -Steven On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 1:45 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey all, Got my 8GB SanDisk 8GB micro SDHC card [1] in a few minutes ago, popped it into my GTA02v5 (beta tester model) Freerunner and running a few tests on it. So far, so good. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# mount | grep media /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/card type vfat (rw,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1) [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# df -h | grep media /dev/mmcblk0p17.6G 32.0k 7.6G 0% /media/card If anything weird comes up in my testing, I'll let everyone know. -id [1] http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171320 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's good news. Hopefully I'll have as good luck with the 8GB card I just bought. It's A-Data brand. But it was a good price: http://digitaldeals.net/article69437.html -Steven Not bad. Someone a few days ago linked to a sandisk card on amazon that was $36 and change. With shipping though, your probably looking close to the same cost. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
Steven ** wrote: That's good news. Hopefully I'll have as good luck with the 8GB card I just bought. It's A-Data brand. I decided to go with a well-known name brand to start, that was the only reason. Newegg.com had cheaper 8GB micro SDHC cards too. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
Got my 8GB SanDisk 8GB micro SDHC card [1] in a few minutes ago, popped it into my GTA02v5 (beta tester model) Freerunner and running a few tests on it. So far, so good. I've got one of these ready to pop into my Freerunner when it arrives as well, and if it works, the big question is going to be: how do I use it best? Option a: UNIONFS Option b: Root-on-SD I mostly want to stay current with the new releases, as well as have an 'overlay' of apps I'm working on, so Option a: would be best for me, however I'm courting opinions on the best way to utilize lotsa space in the FR, for those who have one. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
ian douglas wrote: Hey all, Got my 8GB SanDisk 8GB micro SDHC card [1] in a few minutes ago, popped it into my GTA02v5 (beta tester model) Freerunner and running a few tests on it. So far, so good. Cool. If you have time, can you post some performance numbers for it? http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/neo/iospeed is a simple performance-test program that I wrote (source is iospeed.c in the same directory), or you could use something standard like bonnie++. For my iospeed, give it a path to the file it should create and a size in MiB, e.g. iospeed /media/card/junk.dat 128. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
I'm interested too by your tests... I think I will also buy a sandisk 8gb Anyway, I would like to know if with a really fast card, the bottleneck will be the neo, or if in all cases the faster the card, the better the performances in the neo ? What is the theoretical limit speed of SD interface in the neo ?... I will buy it in Geneva, for 30€ http://www.prodimex.ch/pGroupe.aspx?ONG=MEMOIRESGRP=MICROSD+%2f+MINISD There are 3 different references (sdhc, sdhc mobile ultra, sdhc premier). I do not know the real performance difference beetween them... One is rated as class 4 (minimum 4 MB/s write speed) (well the shop says class 2 but sandisk reference it as class 4), The other (Premier) up to 10MB/sec read and 9MB/sec write And no info for the Ultra... On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 22:12, Mike Montour [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ian douglas wrote: Hey all, Got my 8GB SanDisk 8GB micro SDHC card [1] in a few minutes ago, popped it into my GTA02v5 (beta tester model) Freerunner and running a few tests on it. So far, so good. Cool. If you have time, can you post some performance numbers for it? http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/neo/iospeed is a simple performance-test program that I wrote (source is iospeed.c in the same directory), or you could use something standard like bonnie++. [...] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 11:45 -0700, ian douglas wrote: Got my 8GB SanDisk 8GB micro SDHC card [1] I have one, too. Ok it is a SanDisk SDHC ultra 8GB... Seems to work,.. I've already added it to the wikipage :) Chris. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
Mike Montour wrote: you could use something standard like bonnie++. I'll try Mike's iospeed utility next, but here's a dual-run of the bonnie++ utility: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# bonnie\+\+ -d /media/card -s 256 -r 128 -x2 -u 0 Using uid:0, gid:0. name,file_size,putc,putc_cpu,put_block,put_block_cpu,rewrite,rewrite_cpu,getc,getc_cpu,get_block,get_block_cpu,seeks,seeks_cpu,num_files,seq_create,seq_create_cpu,seq_stat,seq_stat_cpu,seq_del,seq_del_cpu,ran_create,ran_create_cpu,ran_stat,ran_stat_cpu,ran_del,ran_del_cpu Writing with putc()...done Writing intelligently...done Rewriting...done Reading with getc()...done Reading intelligently...done start 'em...done...done...done... Create files in sequential order...done. Stat files in sequential order...done. Delete files in sequential order...done. Create files in random order...done. Stat files in random order...done. Delete files in random order...done. om-gta02,256M,857,92,1872,85,2090,91,1586,93,8986,93,657.0,94,16,257,85,29023,93,299,91,275,91,+,+++,295,90 Writing with putc()...done Writing intelligently...done Rewriting...done Reading with getc()...done Reading intelligently...done start 'em...done...done...done... Create files in sequential order...done. Stat files in sequential order...done. Delete files in sequential order...done. Create files in random order...done. Stat files in random order...done. Delete files in random order...done. om-gta02,256M,856,92,1916,87,2045,89,1583,92,8945,93,655.8,95,16,257,86,29152,92,288,88,272,91,+,+++,294,90 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Got my 8GB SanDisk 8GB micro SDHC card [1] in a few minutes ago, popped it into my GTA02v5 (beta tester model) Freerunner and running a few tests on it. So far, so good. What about on the GTA01? The biggest I have tried so far is 2 gig because I wasn't sure if SDHC was working. I've got one of these ready to pop into my Freerunner when it arrives as well, and if it works, the big question is going to be: how do I use it best? Option a: UNIONFS That sounds like a good idea. Is anybody doing that successfully? What I do is mount it at /usr. So when upgrading the phone image I first have to cp -a /usr/* /media/card/ then change fstab to mount the card on /usr at the next boot. (Of course I formatted it ext3, not to have the FAT limitations.) But to have only the files that you actually modified would save some space. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
Shawn Rutledge wrote: What about on the GTA01? The biggest I have tried so far is 2 gig because I wasn't sure if SDHC was working. I sold my GTA01 months ago earlier this year, so I can only test on my GTA02v5. I imagine someone with a v6 Freerunner can do some additional testing. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing
ian douglas wrote: I'll try Mike's iospeed utility next, but here's a dual-run of the bonnie++ utility: I should mention too that before running bonnie++ or Mike's utility, that I deleted the FAT32 partition on the 8GB card, created a single primary type-83 Linux partition and formatted it ext3. Since I rarely run Windows at home any more, I didn't see any need to continue to use vfat-formatted memory cards. Mike Montour wrote: http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/neo/iospeed is a simple performance-test program that I wrote (source is iospeed.c in the same directory) Mike, your binary is 420kb ... I'm guessing that you compiled your code with the cross-compiler toolchain? After installing gcc/g++ and stdlib stuff via opkg on the Freerunner, I was able to compile the utility directly on the Freerunner and it came out to only 15kb. Either way, here's my results with the 8GB SDHC card: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# wget \ http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/neo/iospeed [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# chmod +x iospeed [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# wget \ http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/neo/iospeed.c [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# gcc iospeed.c -o iospeed2 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# ls -l -rwxr-xr-x1 root root 418384 Jul 10 21:08 iospeed -rw-r--r--1 root root 2444 Jul 10 21:08 iospeed.c -rwxr-xr-x1 root root14758 Jul 10 21:19 iospeed2 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# ./iospeed2 usage: ./iospeed2 filename size-in-MiB I moved the iospeed files to /opt/ so I could compare against the 512MB card that shipped with the Freerunner, and ran Mike's utility three times on the 8GB SDHC card: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 0.776 8.890 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 1.566 9.417 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 1.557 9.396 and once on the unit's own Flash ROM as a comparison: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# cd /opt [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/opt# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 50 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 50 1.577 9.530 Then tested /tmp which I guess is a RAM drive considering the speed boost: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# cd /tmp [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/tmp# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 50 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 50 28.617 42.786 The 512MB card that came with my Freerunner has some other files on it, and is formatted as vfat/FAT32. I ran the iospeed utility there three times as well: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 2.020 2.739 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 2.187 2.743 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 2.207 2.736 So according to Mike's utility, writing the the 8GB card is slightly faster, but reading is several times slower reading the 512MB card. I was curious if this was a vfat vs ext3 performance hit, so I deleted the partition on the 512MB card, built a primary type 83 partition, formatted it ext3 and re-ran the iospeed tests: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 1.789 2.495 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 1.722 2.505 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100 Size (MiB) Write (MiB/s) Read (MiB/s) 100 1.786 2.478 So interestingly enough, writes were slower on ext3 than vfat on the 512MB card. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
